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View Full Version : Remove the grouping Hybrid-exp split!


Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 05:20 PM
People are already pitchforking the Hybrids, who will have a hard enough time of it on their own with the experience penalty!

Give us the patch that normalizes the grouping-exp-split from server launch so these guys don't have to deal with the persecution!

Glenzig
09-24-2019, 05:20 PM
No

Danth
09-24-2019, 05:22 PM
P99 had non-shared penalties at first. It sucked. The wife had to repeatedly suicide her cleric down to keep similar level to my Paladin. The group-averaged experience split is far preferable.

Danth

bigjeff100
09-24-2019, 05:28 PM
My answer to this would be to add all these overly invested chumps to your ignore list every time somebody acts up about a knight joining the group..

Palemoon
09-24-2019, 05:37 PM
It will be a issue, but leave it in. Its classic and it will let those that want insane hardcore beast mode the opportunity. Will separate the hybrid men from the boys.

Speaking as a troll SK from day 1 of live EQ

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 05:39 PM
My answer to this would be to add all these overly invested chumps to your ignore list every time somebody acts up about a knight joining the group..

It will be FAR more common than you think, unfortunately. How often do you see Druids and Wizards invited to high-level groups on Blue? And that's merely because they're not ideal, not because they're actively slowing the progress of the group!

Hell just removed the Hybrid penalties altogether to be honest! Or cut em down from 40% to 20%!

bigjeff100
09-24-2019, 05:46 PM
It will be FAR more common than you think, unfortunately. How often do you see Druids and Wizards invited to high-level groups on Blue? And that's merely because they're not ideal, not because they're actively slowing the progress of the group!

Hell just removed the Hybrid penalties altogether to be honest! Or cut em down from 40% to 20%!

While I do understand the hardcore players point of view, I don't choose to play that way.. And honestly, groups of random classes always make for some excitement!

That being said, last weekend 2 folks were LFG in Chardok. We had room for 1 more in my group.. I chose the wizard cause he /ooc'd first :) Hate me or love me :) I just enjoy the game, and it's sad there are folks trying to be the best at everquest 1999.....

Reminds me of that Kenny Powers quote- "I play real sports, Not trying to be the best at exercising. Fuck this guy"

I miss you Kenny Powers

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 05:48 PM
While I do understand the hardcore players point of view, I don't choose to play that way.. And honestly, groups of random classes always make for some excitement!

That being said, last weekend 2 folks were LFG in Chardok. We had room for 1 more in my group.. I chose the wizard cause he /ooc'd first :) Hate me or love me :) I just enjoy the game, and it's sad there are folks trying to be the best at everquest 1999.....

Reminds me of that Kenny Powers quote- "I play real sports, Not trying to be the best at exercising. Fuck this guy"

I miss you Kenny Powers

I agree with you entirely, but MANY people do not. Even back in the day on Blue people would refuse Hybrids due to the xp-sharing. It's gonna be worse early on G99, sadly, because nobody is gonna wanna feel like they're slowing their progress and falling behind the pack.

Danth
09-24-2019, 05:56 PM
Somehow I managed to level a Paladin to 50 when P99 was pre-Kunark, then a Shadow Knight to 60 during Kunark. If I can do it, anyone can.

My recollection was that Rangers had the roughest time, and that was as much because everyone thinks Rangers are weaklings as it was due to their experience rate. On the flip side, nobody cared about Iksar Monks in spite of their worse-than-a-hybrid penalty. Moral of the story: people can be dumb.

Danth

bigjeff100
09-24-2019, 05:58 PM
I agree with you entirely, but MANY people do not. Even back in the day on Blue people would refuse Hybrids due to the xp-sharing. It's gonna be worse early on G99, sadly, because nobody is gonna wanna feel like they're slowing their progress and falling behind the pack.

I know brotha haha, i know :( Funny how you can feel like you're falling behind in a game that will never end...

bigjeff100
09-24-2019, 05:59 PM
Somehow I managed to level a Paladin to 50 when P99 was pre-Kunark, then a Shadow Knight to 60 during Kunark. If I can do it, anyone can.

people can be dumb.

Danth

Preach

Wenai
09-24-2019, 06:00 PM
People are already pitchforking the Hybrids, who will have a hard enough time of it on their own with the experience penalty!

Give us the patch that normalizes the grouping-exp-split from server launch so these guys don't have to deal with the persecution!

P99 had non-shared penalties at first. It sucked. The wife had to repeatedly suicide her cleric down to keep similar level to my Paladin. The group-averaged experience split is far preferable.

Danth
Danth do you know the timeline of these events from live? I actually am not sure if I ever knew about the non-shared penalties.

Launch = Shared Exp Penalties
??? = Non-Shared Exp Penalties (was this at the same time as the class exp removal?)
Velious Era = No Class Exp Penalties

I agree with you entirely, but MANY people do not. Even back in the day on Blue people would refuse Hybrids due to the xp-sharing. It's gonna be worse early on G99, sadly, because nobody is gonna wanna feel like they're slowing their progress and falling behind the pack.

Naw. When SolA was completely full I took a group of adventurers on a run through the Karanas to get to Permafrost, and included in that group was Mugwy the Paladin. There was lots of Hybrids who were leveling up at a decent rate, and being part of groups.

Danth
09-24-2019, 06:04 PM
The (remaining) penalties were changed to non-shared at the same time as the class penalties were removed in early Velious. That's why Ogres, Trolls, and Iksars (and barbarians to a smaller extent) level more slowly than other races even today on P99.

The non-shared penalties on P99 at launch were purely a glitched implementation. That being said early in original EQ's beta it was that way too. 989/Verant changed it before launch because they noticed groupmates couldn't keep up with each other.

Danth

El-Hefe
09-24-2019, 06:09 PM
I mean, no hybrid penalty is why so few people play warrior on blue. Keep em in, keep it classic.

GnomeCaptain
09-24-2019, 06:19 PM
Question please:

If a group already has one exp-penalized member (by class and/or race) is the penalty increased if the group adds a second exp-penalized member?

Thanks

loramin
09-24-2019, 06:24 PM
Question please:

If a group already has one exp-penalized member (by class and/or race) is the penalty increased if the group adds a second exp-penalized member?

Thanks

Imagine the mob's XP as a big pie. Each player gets a piece of that pie based on their XP requirements, with players that have class/race penalties, or players who are higher level, taking a bigger piece (than their "fair share") of that pie.

Adding someone else who takes a bigger piece of the pie, whether because they are a hybrid or because they are higher level, definitely slows the XP gain for the rest of the group ... but the devil is in the details as to how much exactly.

Glenzig
09-24-2019, 06:28 PM
This is a non issue for me because, I'm like the one and only person here with RL friends that will play with me. Probably the only one with RL friends period. Get jelly!

loramin
09-24-2019, 06:29 PM
This is a non issue for me because, I'm like the one and only person here with RL friends that will play with me. Probably the only one with RL friends period. Get jelly!

My IRL friend who got me into P99 (and then left years ago) claims he's coming back for Green. We'll see: I may or may not be jelly.

GnomeCaptain
09-24-2019, 06:30 PM
Imagine the mob's XP as a big pie. Each player gets a piece of that pie based on their XP requirements, with players that have class/race penalties, or players who are higher level, taking a bigger piece (than their "fair share") of that pie.

Adding someone else who takes a bigger piece of the pie, whether because they are a hybrid or because they are higher level, definitely slows the XP gain for the rest of the group ... but the devil is in the details as to how much exactly.

I see, thank you.

So a Cleric and Mage, for example, might rather group with a Human Warrior and Bard than the double-exp-whammy of a Human SK and Bard.

I just wondered if we might see a dynamic in which a group might accept one hybrid, and reject any exp-penalized members thereafter.

Nagoya
09-24-2019, 06:39 PM
But maybe that SK plays better? maybe that SK is better geared? maybe that SK actually knows how to pull? maybe that SK won't be AFK every 5 mins because of GF aggro? maybe that SK won't leave your group in 5 mins LD?

my point is: you are not guaranteed at all to make more XP in the first setting.

but yes this is how XP splitting works.
this is not how playing EQ works tho. IMO.

Somekid123
09-24-2019, 06:46 PM
Hi danth

GnomeCaptain
09-24-2019, 07:03 PM
But maybe that SK plays better? maybe that SK is better geared? maybe that SK actually knows how to pull? maybe that SK won't be AFK every 5 mins because of GF aggro? maybe that SK won't leave your group in 5 mins LD?

my point is: you are not guaranteed at all to make more XP in the first setting.

but yes this is how XP splitting works.
this is not how playing EQ works tho. IMO.

I'm with you.

Min-maxing bugs the crap out of me. Take that crap to WoW.

I'd rather play with a group of five cool, laid back, reasonably competent Troll and Ogre SKs than an optimally composed group of min-maxing d-bags.

Vx36
09-24-2019, 07:25 PM
I am going to play a Troll SK and want to keep the penalty please. Everquest is a journey and the penalty makes it last longer.

Dumesh Uhl'Belk
09-24-2019, 08:19 PM
Imagine the mob's XP as a big pie...

/wave

zaneosak
09-24-2019, 08:23 PM
They will not be discriminated as much as people are saying. Full groups needing a tank and see a Troll SK aren't gonna wait 30 more mins for a Human Warrior to come by because it's going to hurt their XP Gain. The penalty relative to the other group members is almost non existent unless your level disparity is massive, and that goes for ANY CLASS combination. If you are 35 and Grouping with 38 , you're going to be hurt, no matter what. Does hybrid make it worse? Yes, but the level disparity hurts far more overall.

zaneosak
09-24-2019, 08:26 PM
I see, thank you.

So a Cleric and Mage, for example, might rather group with a Human Warrior and Bard than the double-exp-whammy of a Human SK and Bard.

I just wondered if we might see a dynamic in which a group might accept one hybrid, and reject any exp-penalized members thereafter.

I posted a calculator you can use to see the effect of this. It is not as bad as you might think, the major factor that is expotentially worse is level disparity. You can look at it like this --- For a human monk to gain the same as a troll SK, the Human monk would have to be lvl 20 and the SK level 18. The higher level usually takes bigger piece of the pie but since troll sk takes so much more XP to level, they take more of the pie to compensate.

Link if you're interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kuGt_NC5Mb7SOEOtAJwWt0gFBbQH1FhndV8CN6BdANE/edit#gid=835380516

File - Make a Copy (to be able to edit and play with it)

GhostCow
09-24-2019, 08:40 PM
Honestly I wish they wouldn't implement the mistakes that made the game less fun. Classic or not. Hybrid penalties and spell book medding being the biggest. I know it's not classic, but it's not fun either and we're all here to have fun aren't we?

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 08:44 PM
Honestly I wish they wouldn't implement the mistakes that made the game less fun. Classic or not. Hybrid penalties and spell book medding being the biggest. I know it's not classic, but it's not fun either and we're all here to have fun aren't we?

Yea I agree 100% but that seems contrary to the goals of the development team. I think part of it is ensuring that the Hybrid Classes are appropriately (ie: Classically) rare due to the XP penalties.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 08:46 PM
I'm with you.

Min-maxing bugs the crap out of me. Take that crap to WoW.

I'd rather play with a group of five cool, laid back, reasonably competent Troll and Ogre SKs than an optimally composed group of min-maxing d-bags.

Yea this is an interesting point right here actually. With the recent launch of Classic WOW there was SERIOUS problem for many classes to find dungeon groups. There's currently a dungeon-cleave meta running over there and its VERY common to see a group of healer+tank+3xMages.

Many groups simply wont accept any single-target DPS classes.

GhostCow
09-24-2019, 08:55 PM
Aren't they already rare because they kind of suck? Bards excluded of course. I mean a paly can hold agro better than a warrior and the same goes for SK but the fact that they aren't very useful on raids seems to keep their numbers low enough.

zaneosak
09-24-2019, 09:09 PM
Yea this is an interesting point right here actually. With the recent launch of Classic WOW there was SERIOUS problem for many classes to find dungeon groups. There's currently a dungeon-cleave meta running over there and its VERY common to see a group of healer+tank+3xMages.

Many groups simply wont accept any single-target DPS classes.

You won't have to worry about that in EQ. AoEing isn't a thing in dungeon crawling. Utility classes actually are needed for some groups. Things like slow and/or mez are required. Reliable pulling is required (FD Monks or Lulling) or is at least helpful. I think the problem will be much less of a deal than people think, the people that are gonna min-max to the point of shunning people already have their group of friends they are gonna run with for the "perfect group" or whatever.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 10:11 PM
You won't have to worry about that in EQ. AoEing isn't a thing in dungeon crawling. Utility classes actually are needed for some groups. Things like slow and/or mez are required. Reliable pulling is required (FD Monks or Lulling) or is at least helpful. I think the problem will be much less of a deal than people think, the people that are gonna min-max to the point of shunning people already have their group of friends they are gonna run with for the "perfect group" or whatever.

You're missing the point. I was pointing out that the min-maxers on Classic WOW significantly changed the way that the game was played vs a vanilla experience - and part of this change has caused many classes to be excluded in order to ensure maximal xp/hour gain.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 10:14 PM
Aren't they already rare because they kind of suck? Bards excluded of course. I mean a paly can hold agro better than a warrior and the same goes for SK but the fact that they aren't very useful on raids seems to keep their numbers low enough.

Pally and SK aggro will be a HHHUUUUGGGEEEE benefit for leveling groups on Green. The first semi-decent aggro weapon a Warrior can attain will be the "Obsidian Shard" which procs at 16, has a garbage 6/25 ratio and Warriors won't have any +DEX gear to increase their procrates.

Groups with a Knight tank will be significantly more efficient but I can't even imagine playing a Knight on Green w/ both the Hybrid XP penalty AND the requirement to stare a spellbook while medding.

zaneosak
09-24-2019, 10:44 PM
You're missing the point. I was pointing out that the min-maxers on Classic WOW significantly changed the way that the game was played vs a vanilla experience - and part of this change has caused many classes to be excluded in order to ensure maximal xp/hour gain.

How did I miss the point? I took your point and said it won't be applied to P99. Even P99 Blue which has been around for a decade still has fully twinked characters needing to use CC and Slow and utility to camp certain places in the game. Classic WoW in its current form has the advantage of not only increased player knowledge but the actual MEANS to min-max in a way that can be exploited.

P99 has this to a much smaller degree, some classes can min max their way to soloing or duo-ing really fast but it won't be every 5man dungeon like classic WoW is. Min-Maxers only changed the way 5 man dungeons were played in Classic WoW because the game allows it to happen. The closet thing you're gonna find in this game like that is a chain pull group with a perfect make-up and not to mention chain running 5 man INSTANCED dungeons in classic WoW is more efficient relative to time than any full group content in Project 1999 by far.

Will mix-maxing happen? For sure. Will it change the way groups behave in P99 across the server on a macro level? No chance.

aaezil
09-24-2019, 10:46 PM
Wah wah wah

Welcome to classic eq

Aaramis
09-25-2019, 06:42 AM
XP penalty is classic, but it's also stupid. And I think we all realize that.

Casters already have a HUGE advantage in Classic over melee. Penalizing melee further is just plain idiotic.

I truly don't understand the insistence on a hybrid xp penalty. Those classes are not any more powerful than the other classes, especially in classic vanilla EQ.

Izmael
09-25-2019, 06:44 AM
EQ wouldn't be EQ without the drama.

Dolalin
09-25-2019, 06:47 AM
Not just the class/race xp penalties, but the anger at them and the ranting about them, is classic.

This is why they have to stay in.

aaezil
09-25-2019, 08:48 AM
Lets just start everyone at lvl 60 cause while levelling up slowly is classic its just not any fun!

Nexii
09-25-2019, 10:52 AM
Hybrids aren't worth playing in classic. Even into Kunark/Velious they aren't worth it aside from having one in a raid for their buffs. And that's with the exp penalties removed. Sure I guess if you like the class/challenge go for it. But I'd rather be desired in groups in a social game and not be forced to grind it out slow and solo or be a charity invite.

Glenzig
09-25-2019, 10:54 AM
Hybrids aren't worth playing in classic. Even into Kunark/Velious they aren't worth it aside from having one in a raid for their buffs. And that's with the exp penalties removed. Sure I guess if you like the class/challenge go for it. But I'd rather be desired in groups in a social game and not be forced to grind it out slow and solo or be a charity invite.

Besides the fact that both Paladin and Shadowknight are vastly superior group tanks.

Nexii
09-25-2019, 10:56 AM
Besides the fact that both Paladin and Shadowknight are vastly superior group tanks.

You don't really need a tank in a group though. Mage pets tank just as well as any melee in classic because the gear is so bad. Probably better in fact. It's just a dead slot

Barantor
09-25-2019, 10:56 AM
See I have weird thoughts on this. I'm fine with how it is if the folks spending all this time making it really want it to be that way, but if they do change it then I think that the classes that get an xp boost (warriors, rogues, etc) should get a bit of a boost to compensate.

Part of the reason the xp penalty is there is because hybrids have a lot going for them ability/spell wise, so I'd hate to see warriors and rogues become more rare than they already are.

At that point though you are starting to change a lot of things way out of classic, so it's a weird situation about where you draw the line and I think it's going to be different for just about everyone.

Nexii
09-25-2019, 10:59 AM
You're missing the point. I was pointing out that the min-maxers on Classic WOW significantly changed the way that the game was played vs a vanilla experience - and part of this change has caused many classes to be excluded in order to ensure maximal xp/hour gain.

People figured it out way before classic WOW came out. I played on Tholuxe in 2000 or so, early Kunark. By then there were next to no hybrids on a new server. No one was going to invest in a weak class. The ratio of warrior: pal, warrior: SK, warrior: ranger was about 20:1. I did find it curious that warrior was relatively popular.

The fix later on in POP era (maybe late Luclin era?) was a pretty good one, much higher exp bonuses for grouping. It killed solo and small group aside from farming but IMO that wasn't a bad thing.

Glenzig
09-25-2019, 10:59 AM
You don't really need a tank in a group though. Mage pets tank just as well as any melee in classic because the gear is so bad. Probably better in fact. It's just a dead slot

Are we talking low to mid level?
Also, if you're leaving tanks out of groups while leveling, have fun on raids.

bigjeff100
09-25-2019, 11:03 AM
Hybrids aren't worth playing in classic. Even into Kunark/Velious they aren't worth it aside from having one in a raid for their buffs. And that's with the exp penalties removed. Sure I guess if you like the class/challenge go for it. But I'd rather be desired in groups in a social game and not be forced to grind it out slow and solo or be a charity invite.

Hybrids are a blast to play. "Even into Kunark/Velious they aren't worth playing except for buffs". That's terrible man.. They are a blast to play, and that is reason alone to play them..

Some people just love the enjoyment of leveling and adventuring a character and they are perfect for that. Some folks don't enjoy the level 60 life.. We all play EQ for different reasons.. Min/Max, Adventures, Friends, Nostalgia, Quests, Pixels, Lore..

But common- Saying they aren't worth it? That's a bit too much man..

Nexii
09-25-2019, 11:03 AM
Are we talking low to mid level?
Also, if you're leaving tanks out of groups while leveling, have fun on raids.

Even Nagafen/Vox can be done with a small army of Mage/Necro pets. If your pet dies you just resummon. 10s recast and you can make several on a full mana bar. I don't see any content in classic that would require a tank class.

Deathrydar
09-25-2019, 11:07 AM
Even Nagafen/Vox can be done with a small army of Mage/Necro pets. If your pet dies you just resummon. 10s recast and you can make several on a full mana bar. I don't see any content in classic that would require a tank class.

Am I back in the Wow Classic forums?

bigjeff100
09-25-2019, 11:11 AM
Even Nagafen/Vox can be done with a small army of Mage/Necro pets. If your pet dies you just resummon. 10s recast and you can make several on a full mana bar. I don't see any content in classic that would require a tank class.

This is terrible man.. This is how the new server is gonna be? Just a buncha people who played way to much and now prefer full groups of 2 classes, and only 2 classes cause that's all that is required during classic?? That's really sad..

Glenzig
09-25-2019, 11:13 AM
This is terrible man.. This is how the new server is gonna be? Just a buncha people who played way to much and now prefer full groups of 2 classes, and only 2 classes cause that's all that is required during classic?? That's really sad..

There will definitely be people like that. I think they will be the minority though. At least, I really hope they will.

Deathrydar
09-25-2019, 11:18 AM
There will definitely be people like that. I think they will be the minority though. At least, I really hope they will.

I agree! Do not let what is said on these forums sway you in game, as they are not the majority of players. Most stay away from the forums.

Fammaden
09-25-2019, 11:19 AM
Just ignore everything endgame/raid level and grind up your toons in anticipation of Kunark.

bigjeff100
09-25-2019, 11:20 AM
There will definitely be people like that. I think they will be the minority though. At least, I really hope they will.

I hope so too man, i can't and don't want to imagine this.... If my group in Chardok last week knew that i had taken a wizard over an enchanter to fill our last spot because he had been lfg'n for a while first, i'm sure i'd be the most hated person on the server...

But guess what? We crawled, we got exp, we had fun.. Who'da thought?

loramin
09-25-2019, 11:20 AM
I agree! Do not let what is said on these forums sway you in game, as they are not the majority of players. Most stay away from the forums.

I wish more regular forum readers would remember this.

I feel like a lot of people here see a thread here with (say) a poll that has 50 respondents, and they assume "that's what the server thinks" ... when the vast majority not only didn't even read the poll .. they never even knew it existed.

Budder
09-25-2019, 01:25 PM
Funny thing is I started a few weeks after live in 1999 and leveled a ranger up to (eventually) 54 and never new about the xp penalties. I remember Rangers and Paladins being openly welcomed in groups. I remember dieing a lot because I could out damage the tanks but I was an ass kicker for sure. I don’t ever recall all the hate towards the hybrids.

I wouldn’t let it stop me now anyways because they’re fun classes to play!

zaneosak
09-25-2019, 01:36 PM
There is no way people are going to shun these classes, especially Paladins and SKs, who are great tanks. This whole "mage pet will tank instead" argument is such a niche thing for people who have a pre-planned group. No group is going to purposely use a mage tank and not invite a single melee in their group just because. The people who think this way are going to be <5% of the population of Green. Most people want to have fun.

zaneosak
09-25-2019, 02:05 PM
The Hybrid Penalty has more potential for hurting the Hybrid player than you. Please remember that before you start rushing to judgement by reading what one person types on the forums.

The Hybrid requires much more XP to level to the next level than other classes. In fact 9 classes (not just hybrids) have some type of penalty along with a few races.

This means straight soloing the hybrids get kicked in the teeth not only is it hard to level (in some cases) but also takes alot longer.

When you group with these people (or any people) the XP you earn per mob kill is based on your total earned XP level against the total earned XP of the group. Due to this formula, people that have massive XP penalties get more XP per mob kill but that is to off-set the penalty. Technically it has an effect on you relative to other grouping options but if your group is killing at a reasonable rate the effect is very small (think like 15 mobs more to level or 15 mobs less to level, which in most good groups, equates to like 15-30 minutes depending on camp) and in fact-- if you are all the same level, it is the same amount of mob kills to level no matter what (assuming level is the same)

It's not the end of the world, not something to discriminate over. If you make this a bg deal then you must also make a big (in fact bigger deal) of grouping with people higher level than you, this will hurt you FAR MORE than a single Hybrid tank in your group.

EXAMPLE----------
Mistmoore Castle group killing mobs at the Castle Entrance. Bard, Monk, Cleric, Magician, Wizard, Shadow Knight - all level 29, all human and they are killing average mob of level 28. Let's say they are pulling 50 mobs an hour (probably high) If they all group for their entire journey to level 30, it's going to take them a little over 4 hours. They all need the same amount of mobs to ding.

https://i.imgur.com/d98GBf4.jpg

Now -- Let's replace that pesky Shadow Knight with a Human Warrior instead (who actually gets a 10% XP Bonus, because, why not, he's a warrior)

The amount of mobs to ding for the entire group has shifted to 15 mobs less (or about 15-20 minutes of XP time in this groups pace)

https://i.imgur.com/7XLHOVF.jpg

This is due to the fact that the Warrior has less of a penalty (in fact bonus) and needs less mobs to ding so it doesn't take more XP to require the entire group to kill more mobs.

While technically you are losing time -- how much time would you spend trying to build the perfect no hybrid group for maximum efficiency in a place like Mistmoore CE? Or Highkeep Goblins? Or Unrest Basement? or any high XP rate camps like this.


Morale of the story -- play with who you want, play with people around your level (+/- 1-2 max), and don't let hybrids scare you. If you're in a kickass group, killing at a good pace, the pace will out weight the negatives for the most part.

And before anybody mentions the bard in the group is another hybrid, I know.... was just trying to bring up tanks because it seems to be a larger focus than hybrids in general :)

kaev
09-25-2019, 06:49 PM
The hybrid xp penalty didn't suck until it became common knowledge after Kunark release, at which point the small-souled gits in the player base started being dicks to hybrids when forming pickup groups. Much earlier, the small-souled gits in the player base were being dicks to warriors in pickup groups, because "even a ranger can wear the best armor in the game (rubicite), all a warrior has is a few more hp." (My first guild leader was a ranger who had rerolled his L20 warrior, who then cashed out of the game during Kunark when he discovered how badly Rangers were screwed by that expansion once discs were in.)

Basicly, if you just play the damn game and skip the meta minmax bullshit a good time will be had by all.

Azoraa
10-03-2019, 08:39 PM
I am going to side with the "fix it" camp here. My friend and I are already discussing not choosing certain races or classes as a result of any 'penalty' on them. Likewise, it will definitely affect who we choose for forming groups if it is going to penalize whole group. I don't see how you can just pretend like it isn't there if you have to make choices around that.

* and to that guy who said nobody is going to wait around half an hour for the right class.. yes, we will because we can manage our time around that waiting.

El-Hefe
10-03-2019, 08:47 PM
No

BlackBellamy
10-03-2019, 11:21 PM
I am going to side with the "fix it" camp here. My friend and I are already discussing not choosing certain races or classes as a result of any 'penalty' on them. Likewise, it will definitely affect who we choose for forming groups if it is going to penalize whole group. I don't see how you can just pretend like it isn't there if you have to make choices around that.

* and to that guy who said nobody is going to wait around half an hour for the right class.. yes, we will because we can manage our time around that waiting.

The exp penalty exists precisely to force people to make the decision you are "already" discussing. So working as intended in that regard. There's nothing to fix, that was the explicit intent. They were looking to make certain classes rarer. They understood there would be discrimination but they figured enough would make it to max level and prosper. If you're looking for change, that happens later when that patch arrives, when the intent changes. "The Vision" is classic.

If you want exp, you and your friend should roll a Monk and Shaman or some other power duo and go get that exp. Remember, exp stops being an issue in time, but people remember being dissed forever. That Ogre SK is going to be spending raid points on gear that you need.

Rooj
10-04-2019, 12:43 AM
The amount of people who care about the EXP penalties is minimal. I had no problem grouping on my RNG. If you are a player who plays their class to the best of their ability, who isn't constantly going AFK or not paying attention, who does their best to have good gear and maybe even multiple pieces per slot for different situations, and most importantly of all someone who is polite and fun to be around and not an annoying e-hipster, people will gladly take you regardless of your class.

zaneosak
10-04-2019, 11:57 AM
People saying they are going to wait an hour for the perfect XP group are so full of shit their eyes are brown. You can say it til the cows come home now, but once you get into the classic era, you won't be doing this and the other 4 people in your group aren't gonna be putting up with your bullshit.

bum3
10-04-2019, 02:31 PM
^ I had a group once of 4 rangers, dru, and me, a necro. Did i mind? Nope. Was happy to be able to watch tv and get exp while my pet did most of the work in the group =)