Green XP Calculator

[zaneosak]

Hello. I have been using this thing for a few years now (found it on the wiki, shout out whoever made the original) and mainly used it for my iksar necro to figure out where would be efficient solo-ing. Helps to determine what was worth doing as far as ZEM and how many mobs (time taken) etc. etc.

I started using it more when I tested the values out in Lake of Ill Omen doing bloodgills in my Mid to Late 40s and the mobs per level ended up being within 5-8 goblins correct for levels 46 and 47, so whoever made the sheet did a great job, and further validates the ZEM numbers (since LOIO isn't 75). It works so well on bloodgills because they are almost always the same levels +/- 3 , they don't have a huge level range like other mobs.

I expanded it today just for fun with a grouping calculator, since people were discussing Hybrids penalties and other class/race bonuses and how it effects groups. I didn't make this so you avoid Hybrids or anything, just to show you the implications in number form.

I will be making edits to it, I am a data guy by nature so this kind of stuff in interesting to me. As anything else around here as far as numbers go -- take with a grain of salt since nothing is 100% confirmed ever (especially ZEMs)

Enjoy (or be mad if that's your thing :) )

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kuGt_NC5Mb7SOEOtAJwWt0gFBbQH1FhndV8CN6BdANE/edit?usp=sharing

Make a copy of it to your own personal drive to play with the values and do your own experiments. Can find under the File menu.

[Wenai]

Excellent. With all of the hybrid talk, I was thinking of making something exactly like this. What I wanted to check, was in extreme scenarios... Exactly how bad is it?

Scenario is lowly Halfling Cleric who just scribed Complete Heal being invited to hunt Efreeti in Sol B with some higher level adventurers! Just think of the exp and GEBs! (Approximated creature level at 45)

Party
44 Troll Shadowknight
44 Dwarf Paladin
44 Half-elf Ranger
44 Human Bard
44 Half-elf Bard
39 Halfling Cleric - 340 kills to go from 39 to 40.

Party
44 Halfling Warrior
44 Halfling Rogue
44 Halfling Druid
44 Erudite Enchanter
44 Barbarian Shaman
39 Halfling Cleric - 234 kills to go from 39 to 40.

That is a difference of 106 kills. How many creatures are in that area? Like 10-12? That could potentially be a difference of 10 spawn cycles, at like 22 mins per cycle. That is 220 mins with is almost 4 hours. Meaning it would take you 4 hours longer, just to go from 39-40. That is pretty significant honestly.

But how much difference does just a single hybrid make? If we swap out that Halfling Druid, for a Human Bard. The party will look like:

Party
44 Halfling Warrior
44 Halfling Rogue
44 Human Bard
44 Erudite Enchanter
44 Barbarian Shaman
39 Halfling Cleric - 253 kills to go from 39 to 40.

That is only a difference of 19 kills, which is pretty insignificant honestly.

Now the all hybrid party is pretty extreme example. The hybrid's requiring more experience per level, plus all of them being 5 levels higher really compounds the problem. I think at the end of the day you just want to avoid taking on hybrids (or anyone really) that is many levels above you. And taking on a hybrid who are a few levels below your group won't significantly impact your group's experience.

Play around with the calculator and see for yourself. :)

[zaneosak]

Thanks for a specific example -- when I get home I will run these numbers just for fun, alot more fun to have a real world example like this. I was using low level examples because it was easier in my head to guess how fast I could club mobs in Gfay/Crushbone down in a group of 3. But I like this idea. I will reply with the numbers in a bit. But I can give you the first extreme example numbers, have to head out but can do the rest in a little bit.

Extreme -- 5 Hybrids with 39 Cleric
https://i.imgur.com/VHBJKAV.jpg

no hybrids and halflings with 39 cleric
https://i.imgur.com/6D8gTg6.jpg

Same as previous but adding 1 hybrid class with 39 cleric
https://i.imgur.com/sJkMMTJ.jpg

[loramin]

If there's interest, this could be re-written to be a part of the wiki itself (vs. being a part of Google Sheets).

Obviously that's non-trivial to do, so while I'd be happy to "convert" it if people think it would be useful for the wiki to have ...otherwise it's just easier to link to the spreadsheet on the wiki instead :)

[zaneosak]

The level disparity is always going to be a big factor and bigger factor with a hybrid higher level. As you stated - the name of the game is just staying around people your level. The hybrid in a full group becomes alot less of an issue because while you will gain less of the available XP by quite alot sometimes, you still take the same amount of mobs to ding due to the fact they need more mobs to ding, they get more of the pie (which I am sure why this system exists in theory)

It only gets noticably unfair when you have something like example below - a hybrid who is higher than another hybrid in group. The lower hybrid (paladin in this example) not only gets alot less of a XP share, and the fact that he is not just 1 level lower but SEVERAL levels lower than the highest hybrid, he gets jobbed pretty hard:

https://i.imgur.com/ZCtEiyK.jpg

[zaneosak]

If there's interest, this could be re-written to be a part of the wiki itself (vs. being a part of Google Sheets).

Obviously that's non-trivial to do, so while I'd be happy to "convert" it if people think it would be useful for the wiki to have ...otherwise it's just easier to link to the spreadsheet on the wiki instead :)

Feel free to link it if you think it's worth it, maybe nearby the same spreadsheet that I stole alot of the charts from :) I don't want to encourage people building the "perfect" group because that isn't what EQ is about. If anything hopefully it will do the opposite, I just like numbers.

[loramin]

Feel free to link it if you think it's worth it, maybe nearby the same spreadsheet that I stole alot of the charts from :) I don't want to encourage people building the "perfect" group because that isn't what EQ is about. If anything hopefully it will do the opposite, I just like numbers.

Well, anyone can link it (you can, it's a wiki!)

I was just offering to "code it up", as a real form with drop-downs that people could select. I think the UI would be superior to the Google Sheet ... but again I have to write a bunch of code to make it happen, so it's the kind of thing I'm more inclined to do if people here respond "yes I'd love to see a form like that in the wiki".

As for encouraging people to build the "perfect" group ... that argument in general is often made about giving out all sorts of information. Like, if we tell people X, will they do wrong thing Y because they misinterpret X?

My take is that giving people more information, at least in the long run, pretty much always results in things getting better. Yes, maybe some people might use it to min/max, but it could also give people a much better understanding of how XP is distributed ... and once you have that, you realize that it's not the end of the world to let that Troll Shadow Knight join your group ... in fact it's about the same as having a Warrior a few levels higher join.

So ultimately, I think greater knowledge of XP allocation can only be a net good for everyone.

[soronil]

Why are you creating examples where the whole party is level 44 and the subject is level 39? How many people are not going to catch that / understand the implications / read your whole post and just read the synopsis and say "wow that sucks?

IMO all you're doing is compounding the "I don't want hybrids in my group" problem with your example... you should edit your example so everyone is the same level. You are trying to illustrate the difference a hybrid makes... right?

[zaneosak]

Well, anyone can link it (you can, it's a wiki!)

I was just offering to "code it up", as a real form with drop-downs that people could select. I think the UI would be superior to the Google Sheet ... but again I have to write a bunch of code to make it happen, so it's the kind of thing I'm more inclined to do if people here respond "yes I'd love to see a form like that in the wiki".

As for encouraging people to build the "perfect" group ... that argument in general is often made about giving out all sorts of information. Like, if we tell people X, will they do wrong thing Y because they misinterpret X?

My take is that giving people more information, at least in the long run, pretty much always results in things getting better. Yes, maybe some people might use it to min/max, but it could also give people a much better understanding of how XP is distributed ... and once you have that, you realize that it's not the end of the world to let that Troll Shadow Knight join your group ... in fact it's about the same as having a Warrior a few levels higher join.

So ultimately, I think greater knowledge of XP allocation can only be a net good for everyone.

Amen to all of that! Thanks for everything you do with the Wiki. Been using your per level guides both XP and Platinum as long as I have been messing around on and off with p99 since 2015.

[zaneosak]

Why are you creating examples where the whole party is level 44 and the subject is level 39? How many people are not going to catch that / understand the implications / read your whole post and just read the synopsis and say "wow that sucks?

IMO all you're doing is compounding the "I don't want hybrids in my group" problem with your example... you should edit your example so everyone is the same level. You are trying to illustrate the difference a hybrid makes... right?

I only did that example because the reply that asked for it. I made it just to have fun with numbers, I think it actually proves the opposite in the 39 cleric examples. It has nothing to do with hybrids and shows that the 39 is getting the worst of it due to level more than anything.

The 39 example to me was a real world example because as a main cleric I would go to city of mist being 3-4 levels lower than others because I was able to now Complete Heal. Or a different example would be going to Sebilis much lower because I am a cleric. While I just got Heroic Bond, people let me come to Seb, even though 3-4 group members were 3-4 levels higher than me, I just felt good about being in a high lvl XP zone. I think its a fair example and was noted as "extreme".

[Verityn]

Just from playing around with it for a minute it does look like as long the hybrid classes in your group are a little bit lower level than the rest of the group then their affect on group exp isn't really that much.

In Wenai's middle example if you tune the bard down to level 41 then they are now taking almost the same share as the Enchanter with -10% exp penalty.

[Wenai]

...

Now the all hybrid party is pretty extreme example. The hybrid's requiring more experience per level, plus all of them being 5 levels higher really compounds the problem. I think at the end of the day you just want to avoid taking on hybrids (or anyone really) that is many levels above you. And taking on a hybrid who are a few levels below your group won't significantly impact your group's experience.

Play around with the calculator and see for yourself. :)

Why are you creating examples where the whole party is level 44 and the subject is level 39? How many people are not going to catch that / understand the implications / read your whole post and just read the synopsis and say "wow that sucks?

IMO all you're doing is compounding the "I don't want hybrids in my group" problem with your example... you should edit your example so everyone is the same level. You are trying to illustrate the difference a hybrid makes... right?
Did you even read the post lol? The whole point was to see how bad the example could be in a "realistic" scenario. The reality is hybrid slice of the pie can be very large with level discrepancy.

I even provided an example where taking on a hybrid in your group who was higher level than the subject really didn't alter it that much at all.

[Nagoya]

Doing god's work! pras.

I was actually thinking of doing something similar, with pie charts and shit, I'm glad I won't have to xD

Long story short, invite hybrids to your group, embrace the love peeps, don't be scared!

But yes, the hybrid should be lower level than the average of the group to lessen the impact, as much as possible, and an hybrid class should think about moving to a new camp spot slightly earlier than non-hybrids.

On the other hand and for the same reason, a class like rogue or warrior can stay a bit longer and be a bit above the average of the group without affecting the XP at all, and is probably a good idea for them.

[Jimjam]

it's the kind of thing I'm more inclined to do if people here respond "yes I'd love to see a form like that in the wiki".
.

yes

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Clerics get bummed at lv 39 for CH. If the cleric has balls of iron and great timing it leads to some pant wetting and uber mana efficient funs.