Pally vs Ranger

[Kafter]

Hey all!

I'm getting pretty pumped for Green and like always, having a hard time deciding the class. I've been on the EQ train since like 2000 and have damn near played every class except Pally or Ranger. Ive dicked around on them both but never past like level 20, so I'm looking for the masses to try and sway me in a direction. Are Pallys more fun come Lguk time? Do Rangers have more fun because of the spell line they get? Are both just shunned and I should roll Druid?

Woodelf is my favorite race but my original character was Highelf Mage, so I could go either way!

Please instill your mighty forum wisdom.

[Legidias]

Paladins get the best weap in classic with Fiery Avenger. Rangers are to be made fun of non stop in classic.

[Wenai]

What are your goals?

- Is it important that you are among the first players to reach maximum level?
- Do you want to be embraced by levelling groups?
- Do you want to be racing for server first raid targets?
- Do you want to be one of the highest contributors on your guilds' raids?

If your answer to any of those questions, you probably don't want to play Ranger or Paladin. At the end of the day the 40% more experience required to level up means you are going to be falling behind in levels compared to your peers. Combine that with the fact that groups will potentially be shunning hybrids all together to ensure that their own experience is not slowed down, and you may be taking a while to reach max level.

Since you will be taking longer to reach max level, it also means you may not be able to participate very well on your guilds' endeavours. If you are interested in doing server firsts, you may be too low level to participate when it all opens up. Whereas if you played a Halfling Rogue, or a Halfling Warrior, you would be right in the thick of it.

Paladin and Rangers are also not going to be high contributors on raids in general. Warriors are typically favored for tanking abilities (even though in classic, shadowknight/paladin are great IMO) which means your Paladin will not likely be a primary tank, and their DPS is pretty bad in comparison to other melee classes. Rangers in general are really cool, and I like them myself. However they are just not going to be comparable in DPS to a rogue or monk.

Now that this is out of the way: do you still want to play one of these classes? You should honestly. As long as those first questions were all answered as 'No', then play whatever your heart desires. Do you want to be tanking, or do you want to be DPSing? Also in outdoor zones, Rangers are fantastic pullers. Kings of the Karanas, and Karnor's Castle!

[Maker_Mayhem]

for classic launch? Agnostifc High elf mage if that is your option. Guise of the deceiver will allow safe travels in evil and good/neutral cities alike. (Given that you don't destroy your faction).

As far as your main goes -- I have replied to a similar question about warrior/monk and offered my suggestion up to play a ranger.

Paladins will only out dps sks/rangers in the undead environment. They have one of the weakest DPS otherwise. But for what they do, they do very well in dealing with the undead with a ghoulbane.

Paladins can pull via lull line, rangers can pull via harmony (albeit outdoors only). Both can heal. Paladins stun, while rangers snare. Paladins are aspiring clerics, while rangers are 1/3 druid. Paladins like 2hs -- rangers prefer to dual wield. Aggro? Flame lick wins imo and goes to the ranger.

Honestly pick whatever you see yourself playing long term. Do you like the idea of being a holy knight, banishing the undead? Or are you more untamed, with the will to go anywhere on your own and explore the wilderness with a sword in each hand?

Rangers are the meme class of EQ -- but in classic they are the most versatile melee class imo. And most melee/ chain classes are shooting for rubicite as their base line for armor -- which is ranger wearable -- meaning, they can have the same AC as all the other tanks -- but with the utility and spell line to make grouping effective and hold aggro.

[Jibartik]

The basic difference between this class, among lots of little ones is, one excels outdoors and the other would fair better indoors.

If you personally want to spend more time tracking, sow'ing, and killing creatures in the outside world of classic everquest, I would say go ranger.

But if your vision is of you in the dark dungeons, delving deep to fight goblins and the undead, I would say go for paladin.

If you are a dungeon nut, the ranger feels less powerful after Mistmoore, but if you are a named outdoor tracker, and that's what you want to do the most, then go ranger.

[zodias]

I've played a few classic servers. Rangers are very capable. I always saw the 1 ranger in a raids in top 3 dps. And if vox is going to drop Mistwalker then you will see rangers being top classic dps for a long while.

[fadetree]

Ranger is my favorite. Pallies good too, but Ranger has more utility, and can always generate DPS unlike pallies. DPS always stacks - tanking does not until high end raids.

[Deathrydar]

Combine that with the fact that groups will potentially be shunning hybrids all together to ensure that their own experience is not slowed down, and you may be taking a while to reach max level.

When I read min/maxing BS like this, I don't even want to play this game anymore. This game used to be the place to come and play with others that loved the game. Sure, leveling and gear are important, but that was secondary to the actual experience of EQ.

What happened? How did WoW players end up here to make the hybrid experience penalty a thing?

[Benanov]

Min/Maxing was always a thing in EQ, we just didn't know all the tricks back then.

[El-Hefe]

When I read min/maxing BS like this, I don't even want to play this game anymore. This game used to be the place to come and play with others that loved the game. Sure, leveling and gear are important, but that was secondary to the actual experience of EQ.

What happened? How did WoW players end up here to make the hybrid experience penalty a thing?

This is like boomers blaming millennials for everything they hate. WoW players have nothing to do with it ya weirdo.

[Deathrydar]

This is like boomers blaming millennials for everything they hate. WoW players have nothing to do with it ya weirdo.

I know. Just trying to describe what it reminds me of when players talk about not inviting other players due to an experience penalty. That's something that would happen in WoW (if they had experience penalties).

And I guess here as well now.... :(

[soronil]

20 years ago everything was a mystery and this game was magical. People were the same. They have a natural inclination to min/max, but they can't if they don't know any better. So my first character was a Human Druid who put all his points into Strength

Now we have experienced, and a wiki. So most people are at least going to consider what is optimal when making decisions. Thanks to the hard work of the people behind this project, you can play and usually glimpses of the magic, but it will never be the same!

I will say though, despite what you read on these forums, in the game itself, leveling up, even on a 10 year old server, I find that almost all the people i encounter are super nice, friendly, curteous, and I don't expect many would shun hybrids (even if they are themselves min maxing a bit they won't let it dictate who they group with). On green I think the fresh start, new players, etc will have an even better atmosphere. Somehow this game exists in a bubble, in terms of social dynamics playing video games / being on the internet in the year 2019.

tl;dr
I think the negativity on the forums is overblown for what you'll actually see in game.

[Vexenu]

Do you want to be the best group tank or a high utility melee DPS?

[Kafter]

This is all good info. Part of me is leaning Ranger since I could be a Woodelf. Plus the duel wielding, sow, dps factor. BUT flaming sword Pally with potentially a guise is pretty sick.

I also tend to like dungeons more and if Rangers are not going to be welcomed- meh

Decisions, decisions.

[Deathrydar]

This is all good info. Part of me is leaning Ranger since I could be a Woodelf. Plus the duel wielding, sow, dps factor. BUT flaming sword Pally with potentially a guise is pretty sick.

I also tend to like dungeons more and if Rangers are not going to be welcomed- meh

Decisions, decisions.

Again, it depends who you meet up with. If I was leader of a guild or a group and we needed one more, I would choose a Ranger any day! Snare FTW!!
I also have nothing against Paladins! Love em!!

[Benanov]

I will say though, despite what you read on these forums, in the game itself, leveling up, even on a 10 year old server, I find that almost all the people i encounter are super nice, friendly, curteous, and I don't expect many would shun hybrids (even if they are themselves min maxing a bit they won't let it dictate who they group with). On green I think the fresh start, new players, etc will have an even better atmosphere. Somehow this game exists in a bubble, in terms of social dynamics playing video games / being on the internet in the year 2019.

I have seen exactly one player get upset that the group went from 3 group members to 5. They were of course playing a human cleric of innoruuk.

[Seungkyu]

Part of me is leaning Ranger since I could be a Woodelf. Plus the duel wielding, sow, dps factor. BUT flaming sword Pally with potentially a guise is pretty sick.

I also tend to like dungeons more and if Rangers are not going to be welcomed- meh


It sounds like your deciding between Wood Elf Ranger, and a High Elf Paladin. High Elf is the worst race for a paladin in terms of stats. (Inb4 Erudite/Wis arguments)

You also seem to have a desire for dps. Paladin dps vs non-undead is probably the lowest DPS in the game. A flaming sword is cool, but in the end you'd probably prefer doing more damage than looking cool. Either way Rangers eventually get lightning swords.

As you scale upwards in level you will have less HP than a paladin but better damage. Less healing for more utility.

I only think the people rushing to get 50 asap are going to be exclusive with groups. I already know your not a min/maxer so your already in a different crowd. You will probably find groups just fine with either class.

I'm min/maxing but I don't care about reaching 50 first so I wouldn't exclude you.
I think rangers are fine in groups as puller/dps/snare.

If I were you I'd choose a Ranger.

[Kafter]

It sounds like your deciding between Wood Elf Ranger, and a High Elf Paladin. High Elf is the worst race for a paladin in terms of stats. (Inb4 Erudite/Wis arguments)

If I were you I'd choose a Ranger.

You also seem to have a desire for dps. Paladin dps vs non-undead is probably the lowest DPS in the game. A flaming sword is cool, but in the end you'd probably prefer doing more damage than looking cool. Either way Rangers eventually get lightning swords.

As you scale upwards in level you will have less HP than a paladin but better damage. Less healing for more utility.

I only think the people rushing to get 50 asap are going to be exclusive with groups. I already know your not a min/maxer so your already in a different crowd. You will probably find groups just fine with either class.

I'm min/maxing but I don't care about reaching 50 first so I wouldn't exclude you.
I think rangers are fine in groups as puller/dps/snare.

You are spot on. Ranger seems to be the life for me. INC deathtouches!

[Palemoon]

Ranger and Paladin are great group tanks in classic, but prepared to be shunned a lot by the xp penalty thing for the first 20 or so levels on this new server. I remember back on EQlive in Kunark (took some time for people to figure it out) a lot of people were hesitant about grouping my troll SK. Will be worse here and now.

I did a high elf Paladin on red99 from the start and that was pretty brutal. It was a little bit easier to get groups though I think because of the pvp element, but that value (pvp defense) will be missing from the equation for you on green.

ANYONE on green that picks a hybrid, please bring a lot of patience with you until you've found a guild and a couple dozen levels.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

IMO levels 1-50 aren't too bad. Leveling from 51-60 however, with the 40% penalty, is an absolutely crying chore!

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I will say though, despite what you read on these forums, in the game itself, leveling up, even on a 10 year old server, I find that almost all the people i encounter are super nice, friendly, curteous, and I don't expect many would shun hybrids (even if they are themselves min maxing a bit they won't let it dictate who they group with).

I wish I could agree here, but I simply cannot. It's already happened on Blue - groups leaving their tank spot open til they find a Warrior or Monk (refusing several Knights)

How often do you see Druids and Wizards get invited to high-level groups on Blue? (Hint - they DONT!) And those classes are simply non-ideal, not actively slowing the progress of others.

I've seen groups holding a spot open for an hour or more just waiting for the "perfect" class.

[Palemoon]

IMO levels 1-50 aren't too bad. Leveling from 51-60 however, with the 40% penalty, is an absolutely crying chore!

But by 51+ (hell, actually much lower if you are in a dungeon), you can make your group shine and be one of the most important members. Use your utility to constantly have a mob on you and the xp flowing in. No one is going to begrudge the geared hybrid in a balanced dungeon group.

Lazy hybrid that wants to play just as a autoattack bot and weak damage add? worthless and not playing to the strengths their xp penalty warrants.

Which kind of brings up another point: hybrids do NOT STACK well. You don't need more than one. You are almost always better off with anything else in place of that 2nd hybrid.

[Nirgon]

Being able to root as a tank is huge

Don't listen to the dummies

[Jimjam]

Being able to root as a tank is huge

Don't listen to the dummies

So we've gone full circle and rounded it down to pally vs ranger again?