Monk vs War in classic era

[garfo]

Given that we're all starting completely from scratch with no twinkage, what are everyone's thoughts on how powerful monks vs warriors will feel in the pre-Kunark era, in terms of DPS and Mitigation?

[Jimjam]

Warriors are a function of their gear.

My iksar monk could solo blues on corpse runs upto the 20s. Gear helps monks but they have a way higher baseline.

Maybe humans are less strong, lacking scaley ac.

Fine silk turban, azure sleeves, foremans tunic, fine silk turban, platibum fire wedding rings, glowing bone collar. Lots of good enough low weight AC items for monks.

Mesh fills slots nicely with low weight leather equivalent ac. Gatorscale not too heavy.

Fists not terrible ratio for vanilla tbh. Low levels glowing crook is a 1:3 fast 2hb.

Monks in a good way imo. Kind of a shame iksar blow them out the water.

[Maker_Mayhem]

Well pre-kunark if you don’t plan to raid Sky...the best weapon a monk can get is a summoned mod rod. (Or a blues two handed hammer but it has some serious weight)

Warriors have more weapon options in that respect. But if you don’t plan to raid, then a warrior shouldn’t necessarily be an option unless you just want to offer little to no use in a classic group.

You have taunt, but the majority of your aggro comes from weapon procs which you will not have for a long while.

Hybrids are the best group tanks and best tanks in classic. Rangers included. Warriors stand miles above them in raid tanking once they have their defensive disc after kunark. And equipped with the best gear, weapon swaps and clickers, a raid geared warrior is a Siberian group tank post classic.

Pre-kunark, SKs/Rangers ftw imo. Rangers have the same skill caps as warriors. Rubicite armor is the baseline goal for warriors and it’s usable by rangers...but rangers can generate aggro, heal, snare, sow, etc. by far the most versatile melee in classic imo.

Just my 2cp ;)

[BBIII]

Well pre-kunark if you don’t plan to raid Sky...the best weapon a monk can get is a summoned mod rod. (Or a blues two handed hammer but it has some serious weight)

Warriors have more weapon options in that respect. But if you don’t plan to raid, then a warrior shouldn’t necessarily be an option unless you just want to offer little to no use in a classic group.

You have taunt, but the majority of your aggro comes from weapon procs which you will not have for a long while.

Hybrids are the best group tanks and best tanks in classic. Rangers included. Warriors stand miles above them in raid tanking once they have their defensive disc after kunark. And equipped with the best gear, weapon swaps and clickers, a raid geared warrior is a Siberian group tank post classic.

Pre-kunark, SKs/Rangers ftw imo. Rangers have the same skill caps as warriors. Rubicite armor is the baseline goal for warriors and it’s usable by rangers...but rangers can generate aggro, heal, snare, sow, etc. by far the most versatile melee in classic imo.

Just my 2cp ;)

Informative! Whats your 2cp on Monk vs Ranger as a small man tank/puller (if XP penalty was not an issue). The rest of the group would be sham, cler, ench, and either necro/mage (he's still deciding)

[Maker_Mayhem]

Well if your group is fine with the penalty, ranger for sure. Yeah they are a meme class, but in all honesty, they don’t lack anything in classic. It’s after skill caps leave them behind and AC, but they are still a great group tank vs slowed mobs post classic.

And I second the ranger especially if the other player rolls mage instead of necro. You will have all the bases covered. Snares, aggro, pulling (clr/enc lull line, ranger harmony), slows, buffs, CC, sow, main heals, spot head etc. the only thing will you will lack is ports. Plus with a mage in tow, you will have summoned weapons for the ranger. (sword of runes wins in classic).

[Verityn]

With no one having twink gear I don't think the warriors will have that hard of a time tanking before Kunark at least. I played a paladin to 40 on a TLP server and there was definitively times when the ogre and barbarian warriors seemed to do a much better job than me at tanking damage.

[Qtip]

Well if your group is fine with the penalty, ranger for sure. Yeah they are a meme class, but in all honesty, they don’t lack anything in classic. It’s after skill caps leave them behind and AC, but they are still a great group tank vs slowed mobs post classic.

And I second the ranger especially if the other player rolls mage instead of necro. You will have all the bases covered. Snares, aggro, pulling (clr/enc lull line, ranger harmony), slows, buffs, CC, sow, main heals, spot head etc. the only thing will you will lack is ports. Plus with a mage in tow, you will have summoned weapons for the ranger. (sword of runes wins in classic).

Racial/Class Xp penalties do not effect your group, only you. So if you add a troll Sk or just a troll, you will still recieve the same exp if it was a halfling druid.

[Jimjam]

Racial/Class Xp penalties do not effect your group, only you. So if you add a troll Sk or just a troll, you will still recieve the same exp if it was a halfling druid.

At blues point in time line, but not at release.

[kotton05]

look At all these eager noobs who never played classic makes my heart swell.

Monk is basically fists and a shield of rainbow hues till late sky raids. Wars suck till 60 will always be outshined till discs are in and even then in small man monk will outshine everything melee. Classic is the caster era.

[soronil]

Well pre-kunark if you don’t plan to raid Sky...the best weapon a monk can get is a summoned mod rod. (Or a blues two handed hammer but it has some serious weight)

A monks fist become slightly better than a mod rod by level 35 (11/33 vs 8/26), even factoring damage bonus:
(8+3)/26 vs (11+3)/33

I guess if you see a level 44+ mage where you happen to be before 35, sure a mod rod is a bit of a boost.

Monk weapon options all seem worst than fist if you are aquiring the item naturally (except a cracked staff until level 10).

My green monk strategy is: tailor my own cured silk armor and bare fist my way to 50, picking up a few specific upgrades here and there. I'll get some netted/mesh hands/feet early to have magical attacks. This seems to be optimal (no wasting any time trying to get a slightly better weapon that your fists quickly outgrow, no heavy armor/weapons makes it easier on the weight cap)

Am i missing anything major?

[El-Hefe]

Racial/Class Xp penalties do not effect your group, only you. So if you add a troll Sk or just a troll, you will still recieve the same exp if it was a halfling druid.

XP is split differently before Velious, having a Hybrid (or more importantly someone with greater total XP than you) greatly effects the amount of XP you receive at launch.

[Seungkyu]

Aren't they completely different in classic?

As in the Warrior doesn't get crazy DPS weapons, and the Monk doesn't get crazy AC gear.

[jmclark3592]

A monks fist become slightly better than a mod rod by level 35 (11/33 vs 8/26), even factoring damage bonus:
(8+3)/26 vs (11+3)/33

I guess if you see a level 44+ mage where you happen to be before 35, sure a mod rod is a bit of a boost.

Monk weapon options all seem worst than fist if you are aquiring the item naturally (except a cracked staff until level 10).

My green monk strategy is: tailor my own cured silk armor and bare fist my way to 50, picking up a few specific upgrades here and there. I'll get some netted/mesh hands/feet early to have magical attacks. This seems to be optimal (no wasting any time trying to get a slightly better weapon that your fists quickly outgrow, no heavy armor/weapons makes it easier on the weight cap)

Am i missing anything major?

Wait what? Mesh gloves makes fists magic? I thought I wouldn’t be able to kill willowisps this is glorious news

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Wait what? Mesh gloves makes fists magic? I thought I wouldn’t be able to kill willowisps this is glorious news

Yes and the boots for magic kick

[soronil]

Wait what? Mesh gloves makes fists magic? I thought I wouldn’t be able to kill willowisps this is glorious news

Not just mesh (leather equivalent, only found of mid-high mobs in guk), but the much easier to get at lower level netted (this is like the equivalent of cloth that drops out out in innothule and lowest level stuff in guk) is also magical. I'm sure you can probably find netted off vendors day 1 if you're lucky. I was planning on making that run sooner rather than later anyway to get to less populated area and group with brother (troll shaman)

[Nexii]

look At all these eager noobs who never played classic makes my heart swell.

Monk is basically fists and a shield of rainbow hues till late sky raids. Wars suck till 60 will always be outshined till discs are in and even then in small man monk will outshine everything melee. Classic is the caster era.

Yup the only reason to play war/monk is to get 50 before Kunark comes out so you don't have to be level 1 on day 1

[Aaramis]

Yes and the boots for magic kick

If memory serves, there's no mesh boots. All other pieces exist though.
Probably want kobold-hide slippers for boots.

[Danth]

Yup the only reason to play war/monk is to get 50 before Kunark comes out so you don't have to be level 1 on day 1

There's also fun, that's the best reason of all. Not everyone likes being a clothie, math be damned.

Danth