Will classic night time gamma mechanic be implemented on Green?

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Pls adviSe

[Chortles Snort|eS]

self pity reply

[Nagoya]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2965963&postcount=163

this suggests otherwise.

[loramin]

I'm hoping.

I've got some kind of Linux bug that makes my alpha/gamma levels affect the rest of my computer instead of the game (ie. I turn the slider up and everything BUT the game gets brighter).

This has made me re-appreciate the importance of night blindness much more. I kid you not, I just bought a 6k Eyepatch of the Shadows ... for my level 22 Cleric (who does have a Fungi and and a Velium Crystal Staff ... but is otherwise almost completely naked because I don't believe in stat gear for leveling).

I did it for the ultravision :D

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2965963&postcount=163

this suggests otherwise.

I thought that too, but someone else clarified that Rogean was talking about making the screen black around the book while meditating, so that you couldn't see anything. We may have forced book-viewing-while-meditating on Green, but at least we'll (unclassically) be able to see around it, per Rogean.

I don't think the staff has given a clear answer on alpha/gamma/night blindness questions yet.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

isnt he referring to black meditation YouTube troll vs night vision 🤔

*thx loramin

[Danth]

Ultravision should make stuff look blue-ish. Infravision made mobs look distinctly red. Humans at some point--don't remember if it was right at launch--should start with a candle among the other usual starting items.

Danth

[Nagoya]

oooh. i see.
good stuff then.
i might play a barb, but i wouldn't mind classic blindness for sure, my first toon ever was a barb and that blackburrow passage was super scary in pitch black with the howling of the gnolls intensifying as you move further in the caves as you see less and less but hear more and more.
my first purchase on that character was a Torch, and it was very hard to convince myself to dual wield weapons when i hit 13 heh.
(99% sure i didn't start with a candle. Era was early Kunark)

[loramin]

my first toon ever was a barb and that blackburrow passage was super scary in pitch black with the howling of the gnolls intensifying as you move further in the caves as you see less and less but hear more and more.
my first purchase on that character was a Torch, and it was very hard to convince myself to dual wield weapons when i hit 13 heh.
(99% sure i didn't start with a candle. Era was early Kunark)

See that is classic!! I too remember the terror of going to Blackburrow for the first time on live, and I hope others get to experience it again someday.

[Danth]

No matter how far I've set the bright/etc down on P99 I've never been able to fix the way the Titanium client's long-distance clip fog causes that particular tunnel to be easy to navigate. I can get normal outdoor zones looking fairly normal, especially with Telin's updated sky textures running, but that specific tunnel is always way too easy to see my way through because of the above problem.

Danth

[loramin]

No matter how far I've set the bright/etc down on P99 I've never been able to fix the way the Titanium client's long-distance clip fog causes that particular tunnel to be easy to navigate. I can get normal outdoor zones looking fairly normal, especially with Telin's updated sky textures running, but that specific tunnel is always way too easy to see my way through because of the above problem.

Danth

I don't play with sound anymore, so I don't have the terror of the Gnolls howling ... but with my unintentional Linux night blindness bug that tunnel is a challenge to get through now.

I'm holding out hope that the devs can figure out a way to hack Titanium (yet again) to bring back low-light classic-ness for everyone.

[Danth]

I don't play with sound anymore, so I don't have the terror of the Gnolls howling ... but with my unintentional Linux night blindness bug that tunnel is a challenge to get through now.

I'm holding out hope that the devs can figure out a way to hack Titanium (yet again) to bring back low-light classic-ness for everyone.

Interestingly the low-light works properly indoors. Go into parts of Befallen, for example, on a human character with no light--pitch black (tested that myself awhile back). That's why you can't simply enforce a reduced gamma, that won't do it properly.

Danth

[Lojik]

I feel like I started with a candle in December of 1999, but I very well could be misremembering

[Verityn]

I feel like I started with a candle in December of 1999, but I very well could be misremembering

I don't know about December or if it was in at the very beginning of launch in March, but I'm 99% sure that Humans and Barbs started with 'A Worn Candle.' I could see them adding that after the first few weeks because of all the complaints about being blind.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Ultravision should make stuff look blue-ish. Infravision made mobs look distinctly red. Humans at some point--don't remember if it was right at launch--should start with a candle among the other usual starting items.

Danth

I played as a DE for almost the whole time i played EQ. A friend logged into my account and said to me "JESUS how do you play like this? Whats with the weird colours? Everything is purplish....."

I explained its ultravision and i dont even notice it anymore <_<

[Dolalin]

I don't know about December or if it was in at the very beginning of launch in March, but I'm 99% sure that Humans and Barbs started with 'A Worn Candle.' I could see them adding that after the first few weeks because of all the complaints about being blind.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245972

[Mendo]

I remember going back to town at night and waiting until the sunlight came up to fight again because it was so dark that you could not see what mobs were coming for you.

[Deathrydar]

I remember going back to town at night and waiting until the sunlight came up to fight again because it was so dark that you could not see what mobs were coming for you.

I used to do this back in 1999 as well. I would try to hold off all of my selling and/or training until night time and then run to Freeport so most of the evening hours were spent before I could go back to EC/WC/NRO and kill stuff.

I also remember buying a lantern because I couldn't see a damn thing!

[Barantor]

It did make those light sources all the more important, it's sad to see a mechanic go, but I don't know if I'd want it again.

[Danth]

I remember going back to town at night and waiting until the sunlight came up to fight again because it was so dark that you could not see what mobs were coming for you.

Seeing nametags rushing you out of the darkness is as classic as it gets.

But in truth if you had at least a lightstone night-time wasn't that bad. Even reading this forum you'll notice most of the horror stories originate from people who didn't know better and tried running around without a light source (or with only a terrible one like a fire beetle eye). What sucked was rainstorms at night. Then it got DARK. I remember trying to level in zones like North Karana and having only the occasional flash of lightning to backlight the griffon that was about to use my face as a scratching post.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

I remember trying to level in zones like North Karana and having only the occasional flash of lightning to backlight the griffon that was about to use my face as a scratching post.

Danth
Yeah. I remember the Karanas at night during rain. Scary stuff. Something out of a horror movie!

[Fammaden]

Starting as an Erudite, upon first relocating to Qeynos, I proceeded to get "stuck" in the hallway that connects north and south Qeynos because it was so dark in there I'd run into the walls, get turned around, and zone over and over again losing my bearing as to which way I was facing.

[loramin]

Yeah. I remember the Karanas at night during rain. Scary stuff. Something out of a horror movie!

I kid you not, I just bought a 6k Eyepatch of the Shadows ... for my level 22 Cleric ...

I did it for the ultravision :D

The cleric I bought the eyepatch for was doing scarecrows in the Karanas.

I don't know exactly how close my stupid Linux alpha/gamma bug puts me to actual classic night blindness, but it certainly is a hell of a lot closer to what live was like, and that really does change how you play even basic EverQuest. Scarecrows are like the simplest mobs ever to fight (undead warrior mobs that don't run), but even dealing with them in the dark is noticeably more challenging.

[zodias]

I am sure starting with a candle was not a thing at launch. I got the game release day and promptly created a human bard. After finding the guild hall in South Qeynos i noticed night had fallen and it was incredibly dark. I went back the way i came and zoned into North Qeynos. After about 15 minutes of trying desperately to get out of the zone in tunnel and about 30 rezones in emerged from the tunnel and went towards the way i remember the gate being. All of a sudden the incredibly black darkness got darker. I could not tell where i was or what direction i was pointing. I did have an odd new UI element that was a decreasing blue bar. Then that blue bar disappeared and i quickly died.

I had blindly stumbled into what i soon discovered was the water hole near the South Qeynos zoneline. If i had had a candle I would have not rage quit and deleted this sad little bard and made a Half Elf bard instead.

Maybe they added the Candle at some point in the near future from launch but I never made a human, barbarian, or erudite ever since that horrible first time playing.


I think at this point if they aren't going to enforce classic gamma then there's no point to give free candles.

[Nirgon]

It was so dark at night most people here would threaten to quit over it

My dark elf could barely see in Nektulos forest at night even with ultravision

[Palemoon]

I remember having to actually sit out the night (go afk) because of how dark it was.

[Nirgon]

Going through east commons only being able to see what little bit was revealed by a greater lightstone

Make greater lightstones great again

[Dolalin]

I am sure starting with a candle was not a thing at launch. I got the game release day and promptly created a human bard. After finding the guild hall in South Qeynos i noticed night had fallen and it was incredibly dark. I went back the way i came and zoned into North Qeynos. After about 15 minutes of trying desperately to get out of the zone in tunnel and about 30 rezones in emerged from the tunnel and went towards the way i remember the gate being. All of a sudden the incredibly black darkness got darker. I could not tell where i was or what direction i was pointing. I did have an odd new UI element that was a decreasing blue bar. Then that blue bar disappeared and i quickly died.

I had blindly stumbled into what i soon discovered was the water hole near the South Qeynos zoneline. If i had had a candle I would have not rage quit and deleted this sad little bard and made a Half Elf bard instead.

Maybe they added the Candle at some point in the near future from launch but I never made a human, barbarian, or erudite ever since that horrible first time playing.


I think at this point if they aren't going to enforce classic gamma then there's no point to give free candles.

I've found evidence that there were candles at least in August of 1999.

They were apparently much less effective than a fire beetle eye.

Don't forget that a candle is still better than nothing, and a corpse run without even that as a human was daunting and nearly impossible.

I would like to know whether they were in at launch. Do you remember starting with even a very dim light source? Or was it literally nothing?

[Dolalin]

I found a post from March, 1999 talking about Barbarians getting candles. They must have been in at launch. They were pathetic light sources by all accounts however :D

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2968292&postcount=11

[Danth]

I found a post from March, 1999 talking about Barbarians getting candles. They must have been in at launch. They were pathetic light sources by all accounts however :D

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2968292&postcount=11

They were really bad, on par with necromancer coldlight spell but with a orange/reddish light. Worse than a fire beetle eye, which was itself largely inadequate. Like that spell, they were dim enough that on a dark monitor (remember CRT's? they do dark/black better than LCD screens can) a player might not have been able to tell the difference. As such some folks threw them away along with the discord book, and it's understandable some folks might have forgotten 'em. A torch or lantern is a highly recommended early purchase. All the candles really did was make a black tunnel not-quite-black for a few feet in front of the player.

Danth

[Verityn]

Going through east commons only being able to see what little bit was revealed by a greater lightstone

Make greater lightstones great again

This is why I still run along the edges of the zone every where in classic zones. Except in Kithicor there weren't usually any spawns on the edges.

[loramin]

They were really bad, on par with necromancer coldlight spell but with a orange/reddish light. Worse than a fire beetle eye, which was itself largely inadequate.

If anyone is curious about the exact difference between light sources, the wiki has you covered (although I personally have no idea where it got its information).

http://wiki.project1999.com/Light_source (lower brightness numbers = brighter)

Candle Orange 9 (Dim)

Fire Beetle Eye Red 7 (Less Bright)

[Danth]

Thanks for that Loramin. I wasn't aware of that particular page. Note to the casual reader, on that scale a higher number means dimmer. "1" is very bright, and "9" is quite dim indeed.

On a related note it makes me smile seeing that I'm not entirely senile....yet.

Danth

[kaev]

Ultravision should make stuff look blue-ish. Infravision made mobs look distinctly red. Humans at some point--don't remember if it was right at launch--should start with a candle among the other usual starting items.

Danth

That candle was so incredibly useless, only way for human to get in/out of Surefall Glade was with a torch/lantern or turning the gamma way way up with a voodoo video card.
(or a fire beetle eye, which was just barely adequate)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

RREEEAALLLLYYYYY hope they get Classic Racial Vision working! It adds a lot of complexity when choosing what Race to play!

[kaev]

RREEEAALLLLYYYYY hope they get Classic Racial Vision working! It adds a lot of complexity when choosing what Race to play!

No meaningful complexity at all, it just screws humans & barbs. But that is classic.

[Mblake81]

See that is classic!! I too remember the terror of going to Blackburrow for the first time on live, and I hope others get to experience it again someday.

Yeah, for me it was zoning into Unrest for the first time (second dungeon experience) and hearing the undead moan.. seeing a pile of corpses at the zone in and people die from basement trains. :eek:

[Mblake81]

That candle was so incredibly useless, only way for human to get in/out of Surefall Glade was with a torch/lantern or turning the gamma way way up with a voodoo video card.
(or a fire beetle eye, which was just barely adequate)

yeah but that feeling when it was all new. No ideas about min/max or what you should be doing. Sitting in the glow of your CRT (480p was high res at the time, DVD quality.) trying to find a way around using a crummy candle and that original UI. Was magic to me. I had experienced nothing like it on a console. I talk a lot of smack about consoles but I don't really hate them (pre xbox that is). Tenchu 1 was one of my favorites but nothing that game offered could compare to the immersion of tooling around in OG EQ for me.

[Nirgon]

RREEEAALLLLYYYYY hope they get Classic Racial Vision working! It adds a lot of complexity when choosing what Race to play!

So did having 90stam or more, you wouldnt get snared for running out of yellow meter

immersive elements

would love to see it

[BlankDiploma]

No meaningful complexity at all, it just screws humans & barbs. But that is classic.

Completely disagree. There are so many items and abilities in the game related to vision which are currently useless on Blue. Certain races having downsides that can be mitigated by equipment or class abilities is the definition of "meaningful complexity."

[Danth]

Why do I seem like the only person here who still finds light sources/vision buffs useful here, even if they're not so critical as in the original game? Maybe I can still see a little without a light, but I still want to have one. Is absolutely everyone playing with heavily cranked-up gamma or something?

Danth

[Wenai]

Yeah, for me it was zoning into Unrest for the first time (second dungeon experience) and hearing the undead moan.. seeing a pile of corpses at the zone in and people die from basement trains. :eek:

My first character on Live was an Erudite Paladin. I ventured out into Tox and was able to get level 2 with a Rusty Two-Handed Sword. Night fell while I was out in the field, and I couldn't find my way back. It was pitch black, I couldn't see a thing other than the names of the mobs. I ended up dying. I spawned, went to try and get my corpse and ended up dying two more times. I was super discouraged, and deleted the character.

I re-rolled as a Half-Elf Rogue and made it to level 5 never leaving the West Freeport newbie yard. I ended up joining this random Rogue Only Roleplay Guild or something and he tells me about this Dark Elf Mask I need to get. So a few days later when I was level 7, he drags me out to to Lower Guk, and takes me to the Assassin-Supplier camp.

This is where I learned about the gamma slider. Up to this point I had just used whatever the game had provided as the default, which I remember 13yo me thinking "Damn this is dark." I got to a point in LGuk where I was like, I have no idea where to go. He instructs me how to change the Gamma Slider all the way up... and BAM! I could see!

[GnomeCaptain]

Mmm nostalgia.

My first three levels on my first char, an Erudite Wizard, were in Tox.
Couldn't see a damn thing. Tried to not stray far from the city entrance.

Then I found the boat to Qeynos, such glory.

My first sweet loot: a Lightstone.
And my first sweet loot upgrade: a Greater Lightstone.

[BlackBellamy]

I started in Neriak so I had no idea. Then one day I wanted to just see Quenos so I rolled some human and went out at night and that was my last human.

[Verityn]

Even Everfrost was a bit darker a lot of the time like a thick overcast. I remember finally getting through blackburrow in the dark without falling to my death. Once in Qeynos Hills the sun started to rise. It was the first time I had seen the sun in the game and it was glorious.

[Gustoo]

Yeah being a Barb human or erudite was a big disadvantage being mega blind.

Today dark elf vision is nice just not important anymore.

I don't think they have a solution to the titanium client problems.

[kaev]

Why do I seem like the only person here who still finds light sources/vision buffs useful here, even if they're not so critical as in the original game? Maybe I can still see a little without a light, but I still want to have one. Is absolutely everyone playing with heavily cranked-up gamma or something?

Danth

Not the only one friend, my human & barb chars on p99 always had a lightsource. Never needed a vision buff unless v low level, always had an item in inventory or a piece of gear.

[Vexenu]

Even if they could force night blindness on the Titanium client, couldn't people just get around it by adjusting gamma on their video card software? Seems like one of those things we just have to accept as a minor deviation from Classic.

[Deathrydar]

Even if they could force night blindness on the Titanium client, couldn't people just get around it by adjusting gamma on their video card software? Seems like one of those things we just have to accept as a minor deviation from Classic.

They could, but you could back in 1999 when the game launched. In fact, the official Brady Strategy guide lists turning up your gamma as a "tip".

[Valion]

Ahh Great thread so many terrifying memories true night blindness was far worse than book medding. I don't remember the gamma setting being of any real help could have been my comp at the time. Odd I remember the fire beetle eye being an upgrade to the candle.

[Deathrydar]

My first trip into EC was a nightmare! All I remember is seeing that I was being hit by the red text in my combat window. I remember just running around aimlessly cause I had NO idea where i was at and I did not see one of the MOBS that were hitting me. I just heard the crunching sound. I do remember seeing that a Griffin was hitting me and eventually killed me though. The sounds of a Griffin's wings flapping gave me PTSD.

That was rough. it would be more classic if it were in green, but I am kinda glad that it's not.

[Jibartik]

If this had a pole Id vote yes, even if of course the pole doesnt matter but because yes I want to suffer!

There are so many new things I have learned in the last couple weeks.

Green99 could be substantially harder than blue99 haha! :)

[loramin]

They could, but you could back in 1999 when the game launched. In fact, the official Brady Strategy guide lists turning up your gamma as a "tip".

Memory is BS and all that, but as I remember it that gamma control was far more limited. Even with gamma maxxed going through the Blackburrow tunnel was still a little challenging (and if you didn't know that tip ...)

[Rooj]

Rogean has mentioned it in another thread so it seems like it's going to be in. I've been thinking about it a lot because I believe I'm going to play a Bard, and was going to be Human... Anyone remember what easily accessible/low level items there are that provide some form of night vision? And is there a Bard song for it?

[soronil]

I've been thinking about it a lot because I believe I'm going to play a Bard, and was going to be Human... Anyone remember what easily accessible/low level items there are that provide some form of night vision?

fire beetle eye -> GLS

[Shrubwise]

I just bought a 6k Eyepatch of the Shadows ... for my level 22 Cleric (who does have a Fungi and and a Velium Crystal Staff ... but is otherwise almost completely naked because I don't believe in stat gear for leveling)

I came here intending to read this entire thread but only made it this far... you don’t believe in stat gear for leveling but you believe in a fungi? Do tell.

[loramin]

I came here intending to read this entire thread but only made it this far... you don’t believe in stat gear for leveling but you believe in a fungi? Do tell.

:) one of my favorite rants.

A fungi matters. A Velium Crystal Staff (which even at 22 still procs for like 25% of the mob's health) matters. Your maximum health/mana doesn't matter.

Most people think "+25 HP is awesome, it means I won't die when I otherwise would have, because I'll have 25 more HP to live with!" But in practice, you living or dying almost never comes down to 25 HP: it comes down to you playing well or not, doing something stupid/risky or not, and your gear doesn't change that . To put it another way, you as a player will probably do the same thing when your HP bar is at 80% (or whatever percent), regardless of the whether it represents 25 more or less actual HP.

My (pretty strongly held) opinion is that levels are awesome. Each one makes your character significantly more powerful. Noticeably more powerful if you get spells or a discipline or something. So if you're going to take time away from leveling, whatever you do needs to be better than that, or else the "opportunity cost" is too high. Even when I'm twinking, there's a cost (in both plat and time) to filling slots, so I don't bother for slots that just give stats.

Getting JBoots, Lev cloaks, or any other useful clicky can save you more time than it takes to get. The same is true with any DPS increase (raw damage/delay increases plus procs and haste), any form of regen or mana regen, new spells, etc., because all of that helps you level faster (you kill faster or recover faster), making up for the time you weren't leveling.

But stat gear just takes time and give you no equivalent increase in leveling. When I twink casters I don't bother with it ... and honestly even my highly twinked Ranger (he's got a Fungi, the wannabe cloak of flames, a BFG, etc.) still has a few slots with utter garbage (his waist slot is even empty ATM because I never bothered replacing his FBSS when I got the cloak) ... and he'd have more if he hadn't just hit 45 not long ago, making me load him up with Tolan's for the clickies :D.

[Canelek]

Short tunnel from Halas dock was all blind guesswork even in Kunark (2000). Half the time you'd just end up back at the dock or even in that ridiculous moat getting run over by the raft. :)

[Tethler]

Short tunnel from Halas dock was all blind guesswork even in Kunark (2000). Half the time you'd just end up back at the dock or even in that ridiculous moat getting run over by the raft. :)

I had a barb shaman alt back on live. I remember swapping his junky shield for a lantern at night cause I couldn't see a got damn thing. Make light sources great again!

[Shrubwise]

:) one of my favorite rants.

A fungi matters. A Velium Crystal Staff (which even at 22 still procs for like 25% of the mob's health) matters. Your maximum health/mana doesn't matter.

Most people think "+25 HP is awesome, it means I won't die when I otherwise would have, because I'll have 25 more HP to live with!" But in practice, you living or dying almost never comes down to 25 HP: it comes down to you playing well or not, doing something stupid/risky or not, and your gear doesn't change that . To put it another way, you as a player will probably do the same thing when your HP bar is at 80% (or whatever percent), regardless of the whether it represents 25 more or less actual HP.

My (pretty strongly held) opinion is that levels are awesome. Each one makes your character significantly more powerful. Noticeably more powerful if you get spells or a discipline or something. So if you're going to take time away from leveling, whatever you do needs to be better than that, or else the "opportunity cost" is too high. Even when I'm twinking, there's a cost (in both plat and time) to filling slots, so I don't bother for slots that just give stats.

Getting JBoots, Lev cloaks, or any other useful clicky can save you more time than it takes to get. The same is true with any DPS increase (raw damage/delay increases plus procs and haste), any form of regen or mana regen, new spells, etc., because all of that helps you level faster (you kill faster or recover faster), making up for the time you weren't leveling.

But stat gear just takes time and give you no equivalent increase in leveling. When I twink casters I don't bother with it ... and honestly even my highly twinked Ranger (he's got a Fungi, the wannabe cloak of flames, a BFG, etc.) still has a few slots with utter garbage (his waist slot is even empty ATM because I never bothered replacing his FBSS when I got the cloak) ... and he'd have more if he hadn't just hit 45 not long ago, making me load him up with Tolan's for the clickies :D.

A well written response, and not at all what I was expecting. It is not that you don't believe in +stats for leveling, but you do not believe in the time requirement to find and purchase +stats gear. Very interesting take.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

A well written response, and not at all what I was expecting. It is not that you don't believe in +stats for leveling, but you do not believe in the time requirement to find and purchase +stats gear. Very interesting take.

I'm down with what Loramin says, though I would add that for any class that takes melee hits while grinding xp, it's well worth buying some cheap AC pieces, even just banded armor to fill out any slots that you aren't putting "real" twink gear in. Hell, if you're in a hurry, just vendor bought leather from your starting town is worth the coin.

[Rooj]

fire beetle eye -> GLS

No no, I don't mean light sources. Those only help you see your immediate surroundings, I meant actual night/ultra vision stuff.

[loramin]

Anyone remember what easily accessible/low level items there are that provide some form of night vision? And is there a Bard song for it?

No no, I don't mean light sources. Those only help you see your immediate surroundings, I meant actual night/ultra vision stuff.


The wiki can help, but I haven't yet made a category for vision-enhancing items (like I did for Invis ones; someone else is welcome to do so ...)

As a result, you have to go to every spell that can give infravision/ultravision, and then check their list of items that give that spell effect. For instance:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Ultravision (has lots)

http://wiki.project1999.com/Serpent_Sight

http://wiki.project1999.com/Truesight

http://wiki.project1999.com/Chill_Sight

http://wiki.project1999.com/Summoned:_Coldstone

and the famous:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Illusion:_Dark_Elf

As for Bards, they at least have:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Psalm_of_Cooling and http://wiki.project1999.com/Lyssa%27s_Veracious_Concord (and maybe others?)

[Rooj]

Thanks a lot!
Man, looking through some of those items reminds me of why I don't really like Velious. :\ It's when they first started to just throw tons of stats at you. People claim Velious is Classic but Vanilla and Kunark is the only real Classic EQ IMO.

Definitely going to go with Human Bard. :)