Vacant Zones

[AegnorP99]

There's no real point to this thread, but I'm excited at the prospect of people actually leveling in zones that are ghost towns on Blue. Will we see loads of people in the Qeynos aqueducts? In Splitpaw? Runnyeye? Friggin Kerran Isle? Sure hope so! These zones are pretty cool need some love.

[zaneosak]

Seems like people will be forced to go to usually less popular zones just due to leveling places like crushbone, unrest, oasis being 50+ people making them basically unplayable. Will be a good thing as people will branch out to weird zones to level, plenty of them actually have high ZEM, just have their own problems like long respawn time or too many caster mobs, etc. etc.

[Lufos]

btw. what are the ZEMs for classic? Same as blue/velious?

[kabouter]

Yeah I'm the same as you, hoping to get some groups in the less popular zones.

And I know it isn't classic, but it would be nice if they lowered the ZEM on some very popular zones as well. Crushbone, Unrest, Guk and Mistmoore could do without the modifier.

[Legidias]

I think yall are overestimating people. I feel very confident its gonna be like Unrest with 30 people LFG all the time and every spawn spot claimed.

[zaneosak]

I think yall are overestimating people. I feel very confident its gonna be like Unrest with 30 people LFG all the time and every spawn spot claimed.

I just see this as illogical. Sitting in LFG for 2 hours waiting for a spot in Main Room which will have like 12-14 spawns claimed on that long ass respawn timer just because of the bonus XP is nuts to me, you are probably right to some degree but if people just sprawl out a bit, the results would be better long term for most people, sitting lfg in unrest fighting over beetles sounds like a dogshit experience.

[Maker_Mayhem]

Yeah it will likely be unplayable or extremely slow for the masses until after a month or two imo. I would suspect 2-4K players on launch weekend, personally.

[Kinaki]

Yeah it will likely be unplayable or extremely slow for the masses until after a month or two imo. I would suspect 2-4K players on launch weekend, personally.

Hate to be a cynic, but :lol:

[Maker_Mayhem]

Maybe not. I hope there are only 500 of us lol. But realistically, there are tons and tons of folk who are eager to roll on green. Whether or not they stay, that’s a different story. But there is a large group of people who love the experience of a new server. They may play to level 15 or 30...but still, there are only so many green snakes and large rats to go around in newbie yards with DPS racing going on with any mob holding a staff.. haha ;) will be fun though no doubt.

[Wurl]

I just see this as illogical. Sitting in LFG for 2 hours waiting for a spot in Main Room which will have like 12-14 spawns claimed on that long ass respawn timer just because of the bonus XP is nuts to me, you are probably right to some degree but if people just sprawl out a bit, the results would be better long term for most people, sitting lfg in unrest fighting over beetles sounds like a dogshit experience.
There are a few problems with this, from the perspective of a solo or duo player:
1. Travel time to check a new spot. Any spot could be camped on the server, and if you waste time running to an out-of-the-way spot that's camped then suddenly that 2 hours looks a lot more reasonable.
2. In a busy zone you always have the option to "/camp" and try again later, and you can be confident a group will be there waiting for you.
2. Eating one death due to trying an area you're not familiar with sets you back a ridiculous amount of time.

Once you weigh in those risks, it actually makes more sense to sit and wait for a group spot in one of the safe, reliable leveling spots.

[Dolalin]

On Fennin Ro, with 3k-4k players active at any given time in September 1999, individual tents were camped at the Orc Hill.

You could run a level 1 straight through Lower Guk all the way to the Lord, it was squeaky clean. Almost never needed IVU.

Groups camped individual rooms in Unrest. Fireplace was 2-3 camps plus hags was its own camp.

In Sol B, trios would camp cubbies of 2-3 spawn kobolds. Groups would camp the pool, the window room, noble. King/priest/champ were 3 separate camps with 3 different groups.

Cazic Thule had a group at every conceivable named mob, plus alligators, and a lowbie group at the zoneline trying to pull the courtyard mobs and getting owned by trains every 5 minutes.

Basically it was hell. This is what Green will be like for the first 2-3 months I guarantee it.

[AegnorP99]

Yeah it will likely be unplayable or extremely slow for the masses until after a month or two imo. I would suspect 2-4K players on launch weekend, personally.

I tend to agree! I don't really play Blue any more and frankly have no interest to, but I am extremely excited to try out Green. That's just an anecdote, but I think a lot of people probably feel this way. A fresh classic server is a very rare opportunity and people won't want to miss out.

That said, I do think the population will settle down after a month or so and be closer to the 1k range. Not that I know anything haha. Time will tell.

[loramin]

btw. what are the ZEMs for classic? Same as blue/velious?

Odds are yeah, but I'm still holding out hope otherwise.

ZEMs have been a bit of anomaly here since the early days. When it comes to pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE ENTIRE PROJECT, with virtually every other decision they make, the devs weigh in on "make it work like it did in '99, regardless of player knowledge".

ZEMs are virtually the only thing where the devs depart from their normal standards and instead decide "let's make this one aspect unclassic!" So I'm hoping against hope that they use Green as a chance to revert that and go with actual classic ZEMs ... but I'm not holding my breath :(

[Legidias]

On Fennin Ro, with 3k-4k players active at any given time in September 1999, individual tents were camped at the Orc Hill.

You could run a level 1 straight through Lower Guk all the way to the Lord, it was squeaky clean. Almost never needed IVU.

Groups camped individual rooms in Unrest. Fireplace was 2-3 camps plus hags was its own camp.

In Sol B, trios would camp cubbies of 2-3 spawn kobolds. Groups would camp the pool, the window room, noble. King/priest/champ were 3 separate camps with 3 different groups.

Cazic Thule had a group at every conceivable named mob, plus alligators, and a lowbie group at the zoneline trying to pull the courtyard mobs and getting owned by trains every 5 minutes.

Basically it was hell. This is what Green will be like for the first 2-3 months I guarantee it.

And a reminder that HHK gobs will be 4 camps as well

[Budder]

I can only imagine unrest. Prob one of my favorite zones and I get irritated when mr, fp and basement is full, and that’s just 3 groups. I can totally see each room camped ugh. Will be great for the fast few levelers but as the rest of us start to straggle in with our rusty swords and bronze armor it’ll start to suck. Still I’m in screw it!

[AegnorP99]

Speaking of Unrest, aren't a lot of things there immune to non-magical weapons? Haha that should be interesting for a while....

[Jibartik]

I can only imagine unrest. Prob one of my favorite zones and I get irritated when mr, fp and basement is full, and that’s just 3 groups. I can totally see each room camped ugh. Will be great for the fast few levelers but as the rest of us start to straggle in with our rusty swords and bronze armor it’ll start to suck. Still I’m in screw it!

Best bet is to have a pint, hang out at the fools gold and wait for this to all blow over.

https://i.imgur.com/cIjMwuy.png

[Verityn]

One of my favorite things on a new server is seeing all the single race groups in the newbie zones. A 6-man all barbarian group pulling mammoth calfs is fun to see. Or groups of Ogres and Trolls camping the lizards.

[Jibartik]

One of my favorite things on a new server is seeing all the single race groups in the newbie zones. A 6-man all barbarian group pulling mammoth calfs is fun to see. Or groups of Ogres and Trolls camping the lizards.

Everfrost being full of barbarians is an image I have tried to not forget since 1999 :cool:

Its like the coolest.

Mortal men and woman.

Dressed in fur and bone.

Felling Giant beasts!

The frozen tundras.

Incredible.

[zaneosak]

There are a few problems with this, from the perspective of a solo or duo player:
1. Travel time to check a new spot. Any spot could be camped on the server, and if you waste time running to an out-of-the-way spot that's camped then suddenly that 2 hours looks a lot more reasonable.
2. In a busy zone you always have the option to "/camp" and try again later, and you can be confident a group will be there waiting for you.
2. Eating one death due to trying an area you're not familiar with sets you back a ridiculous amount of time.

Once you weigh in those risks, it actually makes more sense to sit and wait for a group spot in one of the safe, reliable leveling spots.

I guess I dont see the risk at all. These arent new spots you need to "check" or "Feel out" everybody knows at this point what zones are what. /who all <zone> will easily get you checking population without running there.

If Unrest is full, you can go to Dagnor's Cauldron with a buddy in the mid teens and kill Undertows and Goblins (just avoid tidal lord) if you dont want to run.

As far as running, yes its a committment but there are some zones like South Karana with normal ZEM bonus that have infinite mobs 15-25 , you could bring a group of 3 from unrest lfg queue and slaughter anything you want, aviak camp for example would hold up good in that range.

But if you think of the vast number of zones on all continents that are empty even at 100% normal no bonus XP it could be equivalent to fighting over fireplace mobs in unrest.

Maybe I am wrong -- but hopefully people branch out. I am assuming at least we will see more people in Guk besides Scryer and Zoneline to LGUK, there is tons of camps in there and the XP is actually higher than unrest.

Najena is also highly underrated, people get scared because of all the casters but if you can crawl to the goblin caves and set up camp near the front, it's not bad. ZEM is nice there too.

[dwarf_cleric420]

Looks like mages couldn't summon Waterstones til kunark Era.... Should make kedge real fun :D

[AbstractVision]

Odds are yeah, but I'm still holding out hope otherwise.

ZEMs have been a bit of anomaly here since the early days. When it comes to pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE ENTIRE PROJECT, with virtually every other decision they make, the devs weigh in on "make it work like it did in '99, regardless of player knowledge".

ZEMs are virtually the only thing where the devs depart from their normal standards and instead decide "let's make this one aspect unclassic!" So I'm hoping against hope that they use Green as a chance to revert that and go with actual classic ZEMs ... but I'm not holding my breath :(

What are the classic ZEMs? What links do we have to prove them? They may just need to be brought up again by enough people.

[loramin]

What are the classic ZEMs? What links do we have to prove them? They may just need to be brought up again by enough people.

I'm no ClassicQuester, but I believe the stock EQEmu ones (ie. the ones listed in the wiki) are those ZEMs.

As I understand it, back in the day people used the cheat program ShowEQ on live to determine the exact ZEM of every zone. The original EQ Emulator people had access to that data, and based the stock EQ Emulator ZEMs on them.

Because those ZEMs were widely known, and because on live ZEMs were only known by ShowEQ users (ie. relatively rare, fairly technical, cheaters), Nilbog changed them on P99 to restore mystery.

But with the hindsight of all these years of project decisions, that choice really feels out of sync with all the rest of the decisions that have been made.Almost universally they've all favored "the actual way classic was" over "re-creating a classic feel". See CH items, Midnight Mallets, obtaining OT Hammer via Puppet Strings ...

[soronil]

I know you are very "give us the ZEMs" or "use ZEMs we know" loramin, but it just doesn't seem like it's for the best for the game. Already, without knowing the ZEMs, on blue there is usually only 1 dungeon people will do per level range, and not due to lack of population (30 people in upper guk or mistmoore is a bit much). I think a rotating / or new, unknown ZEM that encourages people to spread out and try new dungeons would be a lot of fun, and really give a more classic feel(which the devs want), since people in 1999-2000 did not know which zones were best and did not try to min-max so hard, as you seem to be in favor of

[AbstractVision]

It feels to me that the wiki ZEMs are fairly close to what is actually in game. So that is technically classic isn't it?

I would love to see rotating ZEMs but that didn't happen until Luclin era or was it even later?

[Vexenu]

People will be spreading out in Classic by sheer necessity, no ZEM adjustment needed. You will see groups in Permafrost, CT, Najena, Splitpaw, etc... It will be glorious.

[loramin]

I know you are very "give us the ZEMs" or "use ZEMs we know" loramin, but it just doesn't seem like it's for the best for the game. Already, without knowing the ZEMs, on blue there is usually only 1 dungeon people will do per level range, and not due to lack of population (30 people in upper guk or mistmoore is a bit much). I think a rotating / or new, unknown ZEM that encourages people to spread out and try new dungeons would be a lot of fun, and really give a more classic feel(which the devs want), since people in 1999-2000 did not know which zones were best and did not try to min-max so hard, as you seem to be in favor of

The point is, it's not about "what's best for the game". What would be best for the game would be for the mob that gives OT Hammers to be immune to puppet strings ... but P99 doesn't do that.

In virtually every other decision made, P99 sticks to what's classic, not what's best for the game. And no matter what ZEMs get set, players are going to swarm to perceived high ZEM zones.

All that using well known/classic ZEMs would do is at least let players swarm in a slightly smarter and more classic way to the popular zones.

[Cen]

The Qeynos Aquaducts is one of my favorite zones. I don't know if ill be down there though but since I was Rallos Zek qeynos murderer I learned the ins and outs. Delicious cubes to kill.

[fstyle3454]

LFG for Gorge of King Xorbb! :)

[Jibartik]

LFG for Gorge of King Xorbb! :)

low key will be hottest zone :cool:

[fugazi]

P99s ZEM throws places like Kerra Isle not just in the dumpster, but then also puts them on fire. Why would you ever subject yourself to monk and shaman mobs that drop fish, milk and anything that isn't worth plat or gold when the ZEM is subpar? Runnyeye has the same problem, what with the ZEM being trash and the zone being way harder than say Lower Guk and Mistmoore. And yes, the loot in the latter two places is also better.

[Barantor]

I don't mind the ZEMs being moved around personally.

Wasn't that the thought originally though? Moving around the bonuses so that sometimes one place was good for leveling, then another time it was a different place?

If not then I think that should be, there is a lot of really underrated and fun content in this game that is overlooked in favor of a few percent difference in XP.

[Danth]

I'll agree about runnyeye, but I don't think there's any saving kerra isle unless you wanted to make it home base for a playable kerran race. That zone's a flop.

Danth

[Barantor]

I'll agree about runnyeye, but I don't think there's any saving kerra isle unless you wanted to make it home base for a playable kerran race. That zone's a flop.

Danth

I fully believe there are zones that will always be flops because they were just not made very well at the start.


There are however zones that are made for each starting area to quest in full of mobs like Runnyeye, Blackburrow, Befallen and Crushbone that should all be about even IMO so that it gives folks options and takes off that funnel that everyone seems to do toward Crushbone or maybe Upper Guk.

Everyone knows about Crushbone belts, most know about Gnoll Fangs, but all those starter areas should IMO be around the same favor on the ZEM front to stop that funnel. Let's spread the love around IMO, it might help it feel more like classic if the ZEMs aren't known.

[AegnorP99]

It'd be cool if ZEMs would increase dynamically in zones that are underpopulated. Like after 48 hours of failing to meet some population threshold, the ZEM could jump by 10 or something. This could continue every few days until the population meets the threshold. At that point it could slowly decrease to the base ZEM value unless the population drops again.

Super not classic, but would definitely get the population moving around a bit more.

[Barantor]

It'd be cool if ZEMs would increase dynamically in zones that are underpopulated. Like after 48 hours of failing to meet some population threshold, the ZEM could jump by 10 or something. This could continue every few days until the population meets the threshold. At that point it could slowly decrease to the base ZEM value unless the population drops again.

Super not classic, but would definitely get the population moving around a bit more.

I don't know how hard they are to change, but if they were even just done every now and then when there are server restarts or updates that'd be fine by me. Just something to mix it up. It's still classic, but maybe it'd feel more like that if we didn't know the spawns like crushbone by heart to get that ZEM bonus.

[Mewse]

I've never exp'd in Cazic, Splitpaw, or Befallen, so I'm kind of excited to dungeon dive in these places while they're popular. It's one of the things I'm looking forward to most about Green.

[Nagoya]

FYI Befallen on Blue is some of the best XP you can have level 15-25! You don't have to wait for Green for that :)

Cazic and Splitpaw on the other hand...

[zaneosak]

P99s ZEM throws places like Kerra Isle not just in the dumpster, but then also puts them on fire. Why would you ever subject yourself to monk and shaman mobs that drop fish, milk and anything that isn't worth plat or gold when the ZEM is subpar? Runnyeye has the same problem, what with the ZEM being trash and the zone being way harder than say Lower Guk and Mistmoore. And yes, the loot in the latter two places is also better.

Runneyeye has 33% XP Bonus, honestly not bad. The problem is just the wizard mobs are a bastard. I fully expect people in green to inhabit a zone like Runneye due to the XP bonus alone and the fact that zones will be crowded. XPing with 33% bonus at a steady rate is just as good as XPing at a 66% bonus while having to wait for spawns, in alot of cases. Typically empty zones even with standard 75 ZEM (0% bonus) should be some what populated .... I personally would rather be playing the game than fighting over beetle spawns in Unrest for the 100% bonus XP.

[aaezil]

I hope zems are randomized or rotated without devs telling

That would be classic as hell

[Benanov]

FYI Befallen on Blue is some of the best XP you can have level 15-25! You don't have to wait for Green for that :)

Cazic and Splitpaw on the other hand...

Befallen is great XP, just getting out can suck. That third key is awful.

Old Paw wasn't all that bad, but if you bind at Arena, it's not a bad corpse run. It was just too low level for how remote it is, which is why it was revamped.

I see the occasional group for revamped Paw every so often on Blue, and Najena is usually pretty open.

Runnyeye is dead on Blue, as is C-T.

[Budder]

Same with Blackburrow being dead. I started in Qeynos hills in 1999 and it was a madhouse. I bet it’ll be dead on green too just because it’s so remote and lack of good loot other than a couple high level drops that’ll be poopesocked 24/7

[Jibartik]

Considering overcrowding is going to be a problem, surely hope they make paw a teens leve dungon, green99 would take SO much advantage of that zone that live didnt, because we are SO much better at everquest than teens level players were back then.

I would hope after a year of green99 we would be able to re-create the classic paw zone by playing in it, and searching the web, all at the same time!

I doubt this will happen but I am praying to bertoxxulous that it does!

[Deathrydar]

Same with Blackburrow being dead. I started in Qeynos hills in 1999 and it was a madhouse. I bet it’ll be dead on green too just because it’s so remote and lack of good loot other than a couple high level drops that’ll be poopesocked 24/7

I prefer Freeport area to Qeynos, but I will have to say, with the Gnoll tooth? (can't remember what it is that drops off of Blackburrow Gnolls that you can turn in at the Warrior guild in Qeynos) allows you to level up to level 10 or so much faster than the Freeport area.

However afterwards, you are stuck a thousand miles from everyone, but hey.

[Dolalin]

I would imagine Paw will be classic. There are maps of old Paw that include mob placement, the devs have them.

The only thing they don't have is the exact dialogue of the roaming dark elf that spawns. If you can dig that up that'd be a huge win. I haven't even been able to find that...

[Benanov]

However afterwards, you are stuck a thousand miles from everyone, but hey.

IMO the trip across Antonica from Qeynos to Freeport is a rite of passage.

[Deathrydar]

IMO the trip across Antonica from Qeynos to Freeport is a rite of passage.

I agree, but that run thru Highpass is impossible at low levels and without invis.

[soronil]

I agree, but that run thru Highpass is impossible at low levels and without invis.

there are 3 ways through. Both Runnyeye and the southern route through Rathe/Ferrott/Innothule are safer (relatively) than highpass to someone without invis.

I suspect you can find a level 9 shaman / 14 druid in qeynos hills or wkarana to give you a sow, which will help a lot.

[Deathrydar]

there are 3 ways through. Both Runnyeye and the southern route through Rathe/Ferrott/Innothule are safer (relatively) than highpass to someone without invis.

I suspect you can find a level 9 shaman / 14 druid in qeynos hills or wkarana to give you a sow, which will help a lot.

I can see you thinking that the southern route may be safer, given certain criteria that would have to be present, but Runneye? I can't run thru that zone even at higher levels without being attacked.

[Verityn]

Befallen is great XP, just getting out can suck. That third key is awful.

Old Paw wasn't all that bad, but if you bind at Arena, it's not a bad corpse run. It was just too low level for how remote it is, which is why it was revamped.

I see the occasional group for revamped Paw every so often on Blue, and Najena is usually pretty open.

Runnyeye is dead on Blue, as is C-T.

What I used to do for old paw was to sneak past the gnolls to the snakes which wasn't that hard if you're patient. The snakes don't aggro or help each other so you're pretty safe in that spot. As long as you can get there without dying you're good until your bags are full of snake fangs.

[soronil]

I can see you thinking that the southern route may be safer, given certain criteria that would have to be present, but Runneye? I can't run thru that zone even at higher levels without being attacked.

By how many goblins, and what level? I think Highpass is much more dangerous, longer run, more mobs, higher level.

Also keep in mind Runneye will be it's classic form, not the runnyeye citadel.

[Zeboim]

Highpass run will be dangerous initially, but within a week or so the tricky parts will be camped clear and it will be a moot point, making it by far the safest of the routes. When I did that run on my live lowbies highpass was always the best road.

[Deathrydar]

Also keep in mind Runneye will be it's classic form, not the runnyeye citadel.

What is the difference between the two?