Green Wiki Requests

[loramin]

First off, let me caveat this post with: A) I'm one person, B) I can't fulfill everyone's wiki fantasies, and C) most such fantasies can be fulfilled by any motivated player. But with that said ... and just to get the ideas all in one place (for me or anyone else who is interested to act on them) ...

... what things do people see as "missing" from the wiki for Green?

I mainly mean systemic things, not content, although if there are any major content gaps those are worth mentioning too. For instance, up until a few days ago the wiki showed all spells regardless of era, so I added an era filter to the spell lists so Green players could only see classic spells. What sort of stuff like that do we need?

[Evia]

Some sort of collection of classic era magical weapons/gloves for the melee players. If you're choosing to play a melee character one of the first goals you should have is obtaining a magical weapon/gloves but understanding where to hunt or quest for one is a bit more confusing. Maybe the wiki already has something like this?

[loramin]

Some sort of collection of classic era magical weapons/gloves for the melee players. If you're choosing to play a melee character one of the first goals you should have is obtaining a magical weapon/gloves but understanding where to hunt or quest for one is a bit more confusing. Maybe the wiki already has something like this?

That sounds like a great idea for a new category ... although it's going to be such a huge category that it will require automation to add (ie. it's something me or another programmer will have to do). I think we have our first Green To Do :)

In the meantime, a poor substitute is that you can search (notice that I said "Search" and not "Go", which is the default button) through the wiki for:

"MAGIC ITEM" War Primary

(replace "War" with your class shorthand)

That will show you every magic weapon your class can wield ... but it will do so with the terrible wiki search format that's not very helpful.

[Wurl]

I've never really played true classic EQ, only Kunark-era blue on p99 and lots of other emulated servers at various points in the timeline. So what I'd find really useful is:

1) One big table with all dates including patches and expansions.. basically an accurate version of this page https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline

2) A page that breaks down big differences between current blue and classic.

[loramin]

Actually, come to think of it another way to skin that same cat would be to focus on the existing item pages, eg. http://wiki.project1999.com/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Warrior/Primary

I already added some Javascript to filter No Drop/Droppable weapons there. If I wrote a little more code I could do the same thing for magic items on that page, and it would have the advantage of a much better results format (you get a table of the items, with stats, not just wiki search results.)

I still think a "Magic Item" category in the wiki would be nifty and worth having, but maybe that will have to wait, and I'll just do the item page solution in the near future.

[Jibartik]

IMO the only thing that is missing is (what I think you added like, last week?)

a flag for every item to identify its patch history, when did it come in, when did it go out (if it did) and what patch and the live date for that items arrival and departure.

Not only would this be directly helpful for green, but it would be directly helpful for the entire projects goal, to find accurate to the day, classic information ;)

Being able to know that the tartons wheel is questable day one, and not after sol ro, would be great to see in print, right there in my face, on the wiki.

Rather than me being pretttttty sure it was pre sol ro ;)

I would like to see this info for every item, and I understand that it is also my duty to help fill this info out so if you tell me how I will help you can PM me or link me the same tutorial you have like 9 times that I like a jerk procrastinate reading until I forget it exists 8(

Actually, come to think of it another way to skin that same cat would be to focus on the existing item pages, eg. http://wiki.project1999.com/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Warrior/Primary

I already added some Javascript to filter No Drop/Droppable weapons there. If I wrote a little more code I could do the same thing for magic items on that page, and it would have the advantage of a much better results format (you get a table of the items, with stats, not just wiki search results.)

I still think a "Magic Item" category in the wiki would be nifty and worth having, but maybe that will have to wait, and I'll just do the item page solution in the near future.

Oh hey you know what would be amazing? A filter that let you filter out patch history for this list, like you can google search results.

Launch - Kunark

Guise Nerf - Kunark

or maybe just dates? Or patch titles?

may 16th 1999- january 1st 2000

that'd be awesome lol

But maybe for forums version 2025 8)

Edit Edit (era templates! but for patches yay!)

[loramin]

I've never really played true classic EQ, only Kunark-era blue on p99 and lots of other emulated servers at various points in the timeline. So what I'd find really useful is:

1) One big table with all dates including patches and expansions.. basically an accurate version of this page https://wiki.project1999.com/EverQuest_Timeline

2) A page that breaks down big differences between current blue and classic.

More great ideas. #2 would be a bit of a moving target, but if #1 was done right it would let people figure out #2 easily enough, no matter what period Green happens to be in at the moment.

For now, the two closest pages we have are:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates (lists all of the wikis "eras" in one place)

and then of course:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Timeline

(which as you've already noted doesn't present that info in the best way it could for Green players)

[loramin]

IMO the only thing that is missing is (what I think you added like, last week?)

a flag for every item to identify its patch history, when did it come in, when did it go out (if it did) and what patch and the live date for that items arrival and departure.

Not only would this be directly helpful for green, but it would be directly helpful for the entire projects goal, to find accurate to the day, classic information ;)

Being able to know that the tartons wheel is questable day one, and not after sol ro, would be great to see in print, right there in my face, on the wiki.

Rather than me being pretttttty sure it was pre sol ro ;)

I would like to see this info for every item, and I understand that it is also my duty to help fill this info out so if you tell me how I will help you can PM me or link me the same tutorial you have like 9 times that I like a jerk procrastinate reading until I forget it exists 8(

Last week I shored up the existing set of http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates, but most already existed so I can't take any credit. However, I did make the nifty table on that page, and it tells you exactly the wiki code you need to use to mark any page (or item on that page, or row in a table on that page) as belonging to a particular era.

The actual "marking up of eras" in the wiki will be far bigger of a project than I (or any one editor) can handle. We've already got a pretty decent amount of era info in the wiki, but making it truly comprehensive will require the whole community to pitch in and add those templates.

Oh hey you know what would be amazing? A filter that let you filter out patch history for this list, like you can google search results.

Launch - Kunark

Guise Nerf - Kunark

or maybe just dates? Or patch titles?

may 16th 1999- january 1st 2000

that'd be awesome lol

But maybe for forums version 2025 8)

Do you mean filtering the timeline page down to "what Green has"? If that's the case I agree that would make a great potential improvement to the Timeline page, or to the "One big table with all dates including patches and expansions" page Wurl suggested.

[Asher]

I didn't see anything in the wiki about Miragul's Highway which supposedly worked on Blue for a time. There are changelogs of them turning the functionality off.

[Jibartik]

Do you mean filtering the timeline page down to "what Green has"? If that's the case I agree that would make a great potential improvement to the Timeline page, or to the "One big table with all dates including patches and expansions" page Wurl suggested.

For green, its a little simpler I think, it looks like they are just lumping ALL legacy items into one big 6 month patch.

But lots of items came in after launch day, and went away, or were changed, before kunark. Like the terror forged mask for example. (https://wiki.project1999.com/Terror_Forged_Mask)

That surely was not available on day one right? But if I go to the wiki, it doesn't say what day it was available on live, and I would assume in the long run we would want to be able to fill out that info for items like that for everything on the wiki.

Like when did Panieel get added to classic? Does anyone even know? Every paineel quest, npc or item, should have that date on their wiki page, or a title for that patch date, like "paineel patch" or something.

A lot stuff changed like every day on the live server back in 99, so I'd love for us to be able to keep all that data on the wiki even if it takes us another 40 years lol.

Allakxam has the ORIGIONAL, KUNARK, etc but they really should divide ORIGIONAL up into at least quarters or specific patch dates IMO since we are all loving being so meticulous about classic content on p99

Thoughts?

[loramin]

Thoughts?

My main thought is the details matter a lot. The current "wiki system" divides everything up into 7 "eras". It's easy enough to add one or two new eras, but if we're talking about monthly patches that won't be nearly enough.

We could ditch the concept of eras and instead go by patch number or date or something ... but that'd be a massive overhaul to the wiki. I mean it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that most pages in the wiki would need updating if we went that route.

So the lazy/realistic part of me is heavily leaning towards trying to find an "era-based" solution, and maybe the wiki doesn't have to be perfectly "aligned" with the release schedule to be useful.

But on the other hand, if the system isn't useful, it doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a waste of time. So it all boils down to "can we make the existing era approach work or not? (please let's hope we can)" ... but I don't know the answer.

[Jibartik]

Maybe is it possible to add a field that users could type anything, and we can create the number of erra's we end up needing organically and then like in a few years when we got enough data decide how to turn them into erra's or whatever?

Meaning like, if we added a field that looked like this:

Implementation Date:_________
(Nerfed) Date:____________ Description:___________

Implementation date: Kunark Launch, or Original Launch, or Sept 19th 2000
Nerfed: Oct 2nd 2001

Not that we even know these dates, but I feel like if the fields were there and empty, it might encourage us to start looking for and filling them out?

All of this is made up from assumptions so I could be wrong about all of it too loramin I concede to your judgement 8)

If we did encourage looking for actual dates it might give us more granular data in the long run and provide a much better outlet for Nilbog and Rog to decide how to setup their patch scheduals? idk.

Edit: also sorry if this does not help with that 'please lets hope we can' request lololol sorry

[loramin]

IF the eras aren't enough (and I really think we need to make sure of this first), then yeah I think what you're describing, ie. some kind of "hybrid" between the two, is probably the best bet.

On a practical level, the era information is just a bunch of these templates (http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates) spread out all over the wiki. As I said, switching to a completely different system would mean every page with one of those templates would now need a new template, and that's a scary amount of work to make happen.

But what if we could "build on the existing infrastructure? What if, as you suggest, all those template tags could take one more "argument" of a patch number or date (we need to figure out which is better, which depends on other questions like "how exactly do we want to store patches in the wiki?", since this thread has already made it clear the "/Timeline" page isn't good enough).

If we did it that way existing pages would keep working as they do, but then when someone motivated (like you) wants to make them more detailed, they could just edit the code and add the extra argument.

I'm not ready to commit to anything personally yet: this is big and important and I want to get it right, and to do that it would help to think through stuff like how we'll do the timeline/patches ... but I really think you've identified something we likely will have to address, and you've identified the best (ie. hybrid) approach to doing so.

[Lojik]

So this isn't really a green thing, maybe it's above what you can do as one person? But right now the level filter on NPCs in zone only sorts based on the first digit of the level (it will list level 10's with level 1's, then level 20's and 2's.) Maybe NPC levels of less than 10 could have a 0 or something first? Level 09? Does this annoy anyone else? Im programming illiterate so I wouldnt have the slightest idea how to do it.

[loramin]

So this isn't really a green thing, maybe it's above what you can do as one person? But right now the level filter on NPCs in zone only sorts based on the first digit of the level (it will list level 10's with level 1's, then level 20's and 2's.) Maybe NPC levels of less than 10 could have a 0 or something first? Level 09? Does this annoy anyone else? Im programming illiterate so I wouldnt have the slightest idea how to do it.

This is absolutely possible. The "09" fix would be super easy ... for wiki god Ravhin. I have this medical condition where my eyes roll to the back of my skull the moment I try to write PHP code, so I wouldn't be able to make it ;)

If you can't talk Ravhin into it (I'm kinda hoping he's following this thread and therefore might see this), a client-side fix (ie. me changing how the sorting works) is hypothetically possible ... but it's more work because I have to figure out and then mess with 3rd-party sorting code to do so (I tried fixing something else with the sorting awhile back, and it was difficult enough that I gave up).

[Jibartik]

IF the eras aren't enough (and I really think we need to make sure of this first), then yeah I think what you're describing, ie. some kind of "hybrid" between the two, is probably the best bet.

On a practical level, the era information is just a bunch of these templates (http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates) spread out all over the wiki. As I said, switching to a completely different system would mean every page with one of those templates would now need a new template, and that's a scary amount of work to make happen.

But what if we could "build on the existing infrastructure? What if, as you suggest, all those template tags could take one more "argument" of a patch number or date (we need to figure out which is better, which depends on other questions like "how exactly do we want to store patches in the wiki?", since this thread has already made it clear the "/Timeline" page isn't good enough).

If we did it that way existing pages would keep working as they do, but then when someone motivated (like you) wants to make them more detailed, they could just edit the code and add the extra argument.

I'm not ready to commit to anything personally yet: this is big and important and I want to get it right, and to do that it would help to think through stuff like how we'll do the timeline/patches ... but I really think you've identified something we likely will have to address, and you've identified the best (ie. hybrid) approach to doing so.

I think I'm following you 8) Hopefully I can actually contribute to this, meaning though I am a procrastinator, I am more than happy to help!

I actually have a lot of content in my screenshots folder Id like to add to the wiki, I just haven't setup the account to do so out of pure laziness and procrastination.

I also have a ton of mob info that I keep to myself but am thinking about dumping onto the wiki that I think would be fun to share with people because I am getting less and less greedy but... I know the paths and spawnpoints of a lot of placeholders and NPCs :cool:

Im just keeping some of that data to myself for a few months on green because I'm a greedy everquest player that worked hard to collect this data :(

[Daud]

Magelo (Green)

[loramin]

I think I'm following you 8) Hopefully I can actually contribute to this, meaning though I am a procrastinator, I am more than happy to help!

I actually have a lot of content in my screenshots folder Id like to add to the wiki, I just haven't setup the account to do so out of pure laziness and procrastination.

I also have a ton of mob info that I keep to myself but am thinking about dumping onto the wiki that I think would be fun to share with people because I am getting less and less greedy but... I know the paths and spawnpoints of a lot of placeholders and NPCs :cool:

Im just keeping some of that data to myself for a few months on green because I'm a greedy everquest player that worked hard to collect this data :(

Heh, totally reasonable. It's like with the Treasure Hunting Guide: I never expect people to give up their super secret best spots or anything. But if everyone just shared what they are willing to contribute, the wiki would still have a ton more info.

Get an account, it's super easy!

https://i.imgur.com/R9NeV4u.jpg

Magelo (Green)

Paging Ravhin!

If he's not able to solve that, the good news is I think that tool is (conveniently) stupid when it comes to names, so I think it already has the capacity for you to make a character named "Loramin (Green)" ... but obviously it'd be nice if it could actually handle Green properly.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

baleetE da WiKi on LunCh!

[Jibartik]

When I get an account, I am going to fill out so much lore for characters like this (https://wiki.project1999.com/Guard_Mezzt)

https://i.imgur.com/U9s2X4w.png

What did he DO?? :eek:

Spoiler, he is in a cult.

[loramin]

When I get an account ...

https://i.imgur.com/R9NeV4u.jpg

[Jibartik]

lol let me finish watching The Edge (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDTtUSI_CGg) and Ill do it when I'm on the clock at work tomorrow :D

There is a rad grizzly bear fight in this movie, I am prepping for green learning the best strats to defeat them.

All of the survival techniques in this film are applicable directly to the Karanas.

Edit: oh yea did you see that I tagged you in a post somewhere? lol that does nothing and I dont remember which post it was but its floating around there somewhere and its about this conversation :o

[loramin]

Edit: oh yea did you see that I tagged you in a post somewhere? lol that does nothing and I dont remember which post it was but its floating around there somewhere and its about this conversation :o

I honestly didn't know that "tagging" was a thing here. Do you just mean that you wrote "#Loramin" or is it an actual feature?

[Jibartik]

Haha I meant as in a feature that exists in some platforms but definitely not here so you wont get any notification or anything but you will find a post one day randomly that says @loramin in it and now you'll know what conversation it's in reference to :p

[loramin]

Haha I meant as in a feature that exists in some platforms but definitely not here so you wont get any notification or anything but you will find a post one day randomly that says @loramin in it and now you'll know what conversation it's in reference to :p

The Tartons Wheel (https://wiki.project1999.com/Tarton%27s_Wheel) quest, is that sol ro? or classic?

I mean based on Rogeans post did it even seem like there was going to be a temple of sol ro patch, now that I mention it?

Well, either way, is the staff of the wheel sol ro? I think not, the staff of the temperate flux was maybe? God idk, I've never played a wizard.

If the staff of the wheel quest is around, an enchanter can do that whenever they get Invis and ITU so at a pretty low level. Which would mean they have access to a insta clicky star of eyes as soon as they want to basically.

@loramin btw check this out, what a perfect post to illustrate why I'm so dang concerned about dates and stuff on items/quests and npcs :D

Here's the the thing: we already know a lot about this. We know zones come out in eras: of course that's true for Kunark/Velious, but it's also true for the Hole and VP, or the multiple revamps in Chardok 2.0. And we also know that spells, items, NPCs ... all the wiki content, mostly gets introduced in those same eras. You get your new spell or item by killing the new mob in the new zone, all of which came out together.

That's our knowns, but we have known unknowns: we know some (?) amount of stuff didn't come out with era patches, because some came out after. Someone who knows this well, a "ClassicQuester" could tell us ... Bueller? Bueller?

But even the ClassicQuesters don't know Nilbog's brain. Even if an item did come out in a patch two weeks after the Warrens was released, Nilbog might release that item with the Warrens patch here.

So we have Ifs.

If it turns out that Nilbog's way of releasing results in most things in the wiki coming out in eras, and only a few outliers, I think our best bet is just to manually note as much on certain pages.

If on the other hand there are some big "chunks" of content, like a whole bunch of new stuff that came halfway between release and Kunark, then I think we need to add more eras.

If it turns out eras only cover like 80% of stuff and 20% just isn't tied to any existing era or any we can create (because there's just too many), then I think we need a patch-based system to cover that 20%. It will be a giant PITA, but if that's really the case I think you'll want to be able to go to a sword/spell/dragon/whatever and see "this will be out in patch #19"

The reason I'm not jumping to any one solution is that I'm waiting either for A) more knowledgeable (ClassicQuester) folks to speak up, or B) Nilbog to get explicit about some of these details (who knows, he could pop into this thread and give us clues!), or C) Green to come out and we learn them that way.

[Jibartik]

If on the other hand there are some big "chunks" of content, like a whole bunch of new stuff that came halfway between release and Kunark, then I think we need to add more eras.

For the sake of clarification would you consider 8 line items on this timeline 8 chunks of content? http://wiki.project1999.com/Players:EQLive_Timeline

Nilbogs announcement is slightly different. And leaves room for additions (I mean there were like 1 patch a day for months and months and things wer changing a lot, I wonder if there is a file cabinet somewhere with all those somewhere in a warehouse somehere :( )

* January 2020: Plane of Fear
* April 2020: Plane of Hate
* May 2020: Temple of Solusek Ro opens / Legacy items cease to drop
* August 2020: Plane of Sky
* November 2020: Ruins of Kunark
* April 2021: Epics
* July 2021: Scars of Velious
* The above list is not exhaustive; each month will have unlocks of patches from March 1999 to December 2001.

[Jibartik]

I want to see Rogean hit a switch one day and all the Stein of Moggoks change form lanterns into cups!

That's my wish.

[Jibartik]

whoah momma just found this gem from 2002 http://web.archive.org/web/20020205075423/http://eq.castersrealm.com/patches.asp

Patches of 1999
December 21 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020223131151/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Day=21&Month=12&Year=1999&ID=561&Action=View) December 14 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020127173820/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Day=14&Month=12&Year=1999&ID=534&Action=View)
December 8 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020223133913/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Day=8&Month=12&Year=1999&ID=507&Action=View) December 1 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020313171411/http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=481)
October 13 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020223140643/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Action=View&Day=13&ID=366&Month=10&Year=1999) September 28 (http://web.archive.org/web/20011222035309/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Day=28&Month=9&Year=1999&ID=331&Action=View)
September 22 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020112144714/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Action=View&Day=22&ID=311&Month=9&Year=1999) September 13 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020223135659/http://eq.castersrealm.com/archives.asp?Action=View&Day=13&ID=286&Month=9&Year=1999)

Is this helpful?

(dont forget to click the click here for details on some of these, they expand to a lot of awesome details)

[Jibartik]

Dec 8th: The screaming terror bug causing 20 second full stuns has been fixed, and a tad-late announcement about guards being buffed up has finally come forth.

I want to exploit this feature for 9 months :(

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56203

notice in this thread nilbog knows that the gypsy GLS quest will not be in the game for 2 months. oh no.

[Jibartik]

Some of these patch notes are amazing, I feel like it's 1999 again.

September 13, 1999

PATCH DAY
Here is the latest patch news:

Bug Fixes:

Players levitating should be easier for other PCs to see.
When charmed/feared and killed players should not be returned to the character selection screen.
Lore items in containers that are dropped should not be destroyed.
Charged items, such as the Staff of the Observers, should correctly report the number of charges remaining after zoning.
Corpses should remain lootable even if a player goes linkdead while looting
A player under the effect of charm or fear can no longer open their spellbook or sit in order to escape the effects of these spells.
A player using online help should no longer be locked into the help screen if another party initiates a trade.
Non-melee items equipped in weapon slots should no longer mutate if the pc is charmed.
Extremely large NPCs, ie Vox, should not suicide when stuck.

New emotes:

Here is a list of new emotes that have been added to the game: agree, amaze, apologize, applaud, plead, bite, bleed, blink, blush, boggle, bonk, bored, brb, burp, bye, cackle, calm, clap, comfort, congratulate, cough, cringe, curious, dance, drool , duck, eye, gasp, giggle, glare, grin , groan, grovel, happy, hungry, introduce, jk (just kidding) , kneel, lost, massage, moan, mourn , peer, point, ponder, puzzle, raise, ready, roar, salute, shiver, shrug, sigh, smirk, snarl, snicker, stare, tap, tease, thank, thirsty, veto, welcome, whine, whistle, yawn

PVP Changes: :)

In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct damage spell is cast upon them.

Spell Changes:

Levitate: All players may now cancel this effect.
Paralyzing Earth now Wizard and Necromancer useable.
The Mana cost on some Magician damage shields has been slightly reduced
Alter Plane: Hate and Alter Plane: Sky have been changed into higher level spells.
Succor: Ro (Druid) is now a level 39 spell (previously a typo as a level 49 spell)
Curse of the Simple Mind (Enchanter) now lowers both Int AND Wis.
Selo`s Consonant Chain (Bard) should now work better.
Shadow Vortex (Necro) is more effective.
Screaming Terror is now an all or nothing save. This should stop the 'train' problems that it was causing.
Gravity Flux will now research correctly for Wizards.
Lich and Bond of Death are now researchable for Necromancers check your tomes.
The different types of Words of Collection and Words of Acquisition are now more easily identifiable.
Dead Man Walking (Necromancer) has been renamed Dead Man Floating
Ignite Bones (Necromancer) has had the movement component removed. This means that it will no longer break root and snare spells, and that it will now stack with the darkness line.
Syvelian`s Anti-Magic Aria (Bard) has been fixed.
A bug in some of the AoE code has been fixed. AoE spells will now effect more monsters.
Some Magician Summoned items are now lore items. Items that have turned lore have had other small benefits added to them.
Dance of the Fireflies (Druid) has been changed from Divination to Conjuration.
Rangers have gained the spell Dance of the Fireflies (level 15)
High Level Enchanter Illusion spells have had the remainder of their effects implemented.
Magi research components have been added to more monsters throughout the world.
There is a new pet command: /pet taunt and /pet notaunt.
Pets default to /pet taunt
The Rods for the Ice Comet quests will now pop much more often.
Envenomed Breath (Shaman) has had its damage raised slightly.
Scourge (Necromancer and Shaman) has had its damage raised slightly.
Enchantment of Light and Enchantment of Brilliance (Enchanter) have been replaced by new enchantment spells. These spells have been added to a hidden vendor somewhere in the game.
New quests for Necromancers to research their pets have been added

Pets:

High level pets (44th and 49th lvl spells) do less damage
Pets will now navigate some outdoor and dungeon areas better

DoT Changes:

If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
:cool::cool::cool: If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken. :cool::cool::cool:
DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.

Now loramin, bear with me, but hwo cool would it be if you go to the levitate page, and see the patch history for levitate and find out that prior to September 13th 1999 you couldnt click off this buff :D

[Jibartik]

A bug in some of the AoE code has been fixed. AoE spells will now effect more monsters.

holy shnykies does this mean maybe that AoE kiting was literally impossible for 6-9 months batman?? :eek::eek::eek:

:cool::D

[loramin]

whoah momma just found this gem from 2002 http://web.archive.org/web/20020205075423/http://eq.castersrealm.com/patches.asp


Some of these patch notes are amazing, I feel like it's 1999 again.
Now loramin, bear with me, but hwo cool would it be if you go to the levitate page, and see the patch history for levitate and find out that prior to September 13th 1999 you couldnt click off this buff :D

Yeah see all that patch text is exactly the problem.

Even if Nilbog implemented everything exactly identical to live, down to the day, and even if we have the patch notes for every live patch (as I understand it, different sites have different sets of patch notes, so there's not even one complete set) ... we've still got a "forest from the trees" problem. And there's a very good chance that at least some changes in the game aren't going to be timeline-exact.

Really, most of the stuff in those notes doesn't matter to the wiki. "Levitate: All players may now cancel this effect." Sure if you're bored you could add a note about this to the Levitate page, and I'm not denying it'd be cool (in a very un-cool, nerdy way ;)) ... but what people really want to know is "can I levitate from day #1, or do I have to wait until ____ patch or expansion?"

So what I'm saying we need to tease out is, how many more times were spells/items/NPCs added to the game, besides the known eras. Was there a handful more? Maybe 10-15 more, but like 3 "clumps" with a ton of new stuff, and those other times are all like "we fixed this one glitch in this one zone and now NPC Bob who wasn't spawning before spawns and drops his new magic hat"?

I think this is what's really helpful there:
For the sake of clarification would you consider 8 line items on this timeline 8 chunks of content? http://wiki.project1999.com/Players:EQLive_Timeline

Nilbogs announcement is slightly different. And leaves room for additions (I mean there were like 1 patch a day for months and months and things wer changing a lot, I wonder if there is a file cabinet somewhere with all those somewhere in a warehouse somehere :( )

* January 2020: Plane of Fear
* April 2020: Plane of Hate
* May 2020: Temple of Solusek Ro opens / Legacy items cease to drop
* August 2020: Plane of Sky
* November 2020: Ruins of Kunark
* April 2021: Epics
* July 2021: Scars of Velious
* The above list is not exhaustive; each month will have unlocks of patches from March 1999 to December 2001.

From what Nilbog wrote it sounds to me we need to add new wiki "eras" (with matching categories and templates) that we don't currently have for:

* January 2020: Plane of Fear
* April 2020: Plane of Hate
* May 2020: Temple of Solusek Ro opens / Legacy items cease to drop
* August 2020: Plane of Sky


But again, before I dive in, I'd really like to hear if there's actually 10 (or 50) more times like those where a bunch of new stuff came out. Any ClassicQuesters (or "ClassHoles") want to chime in? Because if so, making those new "eras" is pointless.

[Halfcell]

One thing that would be very convenient (and maybe it already exists and I just don't know how to find it) is a way to figure out exactly what tradeskills and recipies will be useable and when. Like obviously day 1 we wont have the cultural armors and weapons. Or for Alchemy, we wont have a potion to field of bone, but are wort pots in the game day 1? Greater Null pots? I can't be the only person who is not sure what got added when.

[loramin]

One thing that would be very convenient (and maybe it already exists and I just don't know how to find it) is a way to figure out exactly what tradeskills and recipies will be useable and when. Like obviously day 1 we wont have the cultural armors and weapons. Or for Alchemy, we wont have a potion to field of bone, but are wort pots in the game day 1? Greater Null pots? I can't be the only person who is not sure what got added when.

Thanks for posting this, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for in this thread!

My gut feeling here (without being a ClassicQuester) is that for most tradeskills, most recipes will be there on launch, so we don't have to completely tear-down and re-build the tradeskill pages. But there will definitely be chunks added in latter eras (the Velious armor recipes and Tinkering being the most notable exceptions).

Again my gut thought is that we just need to add era tags to those pages (probably the short ones on most pages, since most use tables for their recipes). Once we do, the same era filters I added to the class spell pages should just work on the tradeskill pages too. But if anyone thinks we need more than that please speak up.

[soronil]

Thanks for posting this, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for in this thread!

My gut feeling here (without being a ClassicQuester) is that for most tradeskills, most recipes will be there on launch, so we don't have to completely tear-down and re-build the tradeskill pages. But there will definitely be chunks added in latter eras (the Velious armor recipes and Tinkering being the most notable exceptions).

Again my gut thought is that we just need to add era tags to those pages (probably the short ones on most pages, since most use tables for their recipes). Once we do, the same era filters I added to the class spell pages should just work on the tradeskill pages too. But if anyone thinks we need more than that please speak up.

So there are hundreds of cultural tradeskill recipes that were added some point later, and not at the era periods you currently have. Even non-cultural stuff, like fine plate armor, and some jewelry recipes. There were multiple patches in kunark and velious changing tradeskills adding stuff.

If a recipe is added 1 month before Velious, a "Kunark Era" tag is pretty useless.

Since the current plan seems to be monthly patches, I think "Era" tags are pretty useless. Those groupings may be fine on live where you've got 20 expansions, but when there are only 2 expansion, "Kunark Era" and "Velious Era" are way too vague.

[AbstractVision]

What about a Green auction tracker? Sorry if this was already addressed somewhere else.

[loramin]

So there are hundreds of cultural tradeskill recipes that were added some point later, and not at the era periods you currently have. Even non-cultural stuff, like fine plate armor, and some jewelry recipes. There were multiple patches in kunark and velious changing tradeskills adding stuff.

If a recipe is added 1 month before Velious, a "Kunark Era" tag is pretty useless.

Since the current plan seems to be monthly patches, I think "Era" tags are pretty useless. Those groupings may be fine on live where you've got 20 expansions, but when there are only 2 expansion, "Kunark Era" and "Velious Era" are way too vague.

Thanks a ton for this! However, here are a few more relevant details. First, the wiki has more eras than just the expansions: http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates.

Second, those hundreds of tradeskill recipes ... and for that matter most recipes/items/NPCs ... I understand Nilbog will be patching monthly, and my memory sucks, but I really don't remember it being like:

January we add mummies, 2 hats, and the iron pot recipe. February we add one gnoll in Blackburrow, the disease resist jewelry recipes, and the posky isle 1 quests. March ...

Stuff generally came out in clumps, no? Like a new zone (eg. Fear) comes out, and then the Fear NPCs and the Fear items come out then too? There might have been some fixes made a month later or something, but A) I'm not sure Nilbog is truly recreating every line of every patch note, and B) I don't think it will be the end of the world if new Fear items and ones patched a month or two later are both in one "Fear era".

Maybe tradeskill recipes don't come out then, but didn't they too mostly come in very big clumps, not "drip drip"? The reason I'm focusing on this is, I really think it's going to be A LOT harder to flag everything in the wiki by patch than by era (eras are half done).

If some small percentage of content did come out between eras, I don't think the wiki requires a massive overhaul of literally almost every page. Again I think it's ok if ... for instance ... a bunch of tradeskill recipes came out a month after Fear (or the Hole, or Chardok 2.0 or whenever) and we just say "they're in that era". Or maybe we just add notes "comes out one month into Fear" on important pages that aren't clear cut ... but mostly still group by era?

So I'm really trying to suss out ... does all of the above seem logical, or is it truly going to be "new stuff every month" ... and enough that the wiki will be significantly less useful if we try to make things massively easier on ourselves by grouping into eras?

[soronil]

The reason I'm focusing on this is, I really think it's going to be A LOT harder to flag everything in the wiki by patch than by era (eras are half done).

First, we have to decide if we really care. We didn't even have a wiki in live, is it really important to accurately tag each piece of content? How bad do you feel if someone runs across karana to find an NPC that didn't actually exist until later in that "general period of time (era)", or gathered all the mats for a cultural recipe but then it turns out that recipe wasn't around until later in velious.

Assuming you want 100% accuracy:

A. The annoucement indicated monthly patches. the list he gave was called the "highlights". So you would want that granularity.

B. I don't think you have to make a hard swap. Here's how I would do it

1. rename existing eras. "Stonebrunt Era" -> "March 2001 (Stonebrunt)"
... I'm not sure if live timeline months make sense here, since our timeline may be slightly different, live monthish? p99 green month (which we may not know until it happens)? p99 green patch #? You may have to change the name of the groups over time, I Assume this is trivial to rename existing category. Probably not for a user, but for the administrator it should be similar to a find/replace?

2. Add new eras. Empty at start, and then over time people can move content from the original eras you have already defined today, into more specific areas.

This way, none of the work you've already done is wasted. Things are already "close" to when they happened on live, and as people learn that a npc/item/recipe/etc is actually attached to a smaller patch, they can just update the era/patch for that content.


You still have some outliers that are more complicated. Things that were introduced at some point after launch, and then removed/changed/nurfed at some other point, so you have to have some way to indicate multiple eras i guess

[Jibartik]

First, we have to decide if we really care. We didn't even have a wiki in live, is it really important to accurately tag each piece of content? How bad do you feel if someone runs across karana to find an NPC that didn't actually exist until later in that "general period of time (era)"

I would feel very bad.

My interest is purely academic.

There are players here who pride themselves on their classic knowledge, that don't even know half the quests theyre planning on exploiting on green didnt exist for 4-9 months after launch.

I am going to have to get my hands dirty this weekend and start working on my own patch guide that hopefully will help us all in the hunt for the most accurate classic patch timeline on the internet, I would love for that honor to exist on p99's wiki :o

[loramin]

1. rename existing eras. "Stonebrunt Era" -> "March 2001 (Stonebrunt)"

Let's start here. The wiki already today says "Stonebrunt Era (added Summer 2001)" ... when someone uses a "page template". It certainly would be easy enough to change "Summer" to "Aug 2001- Jan 2001", because that text is generated by a single template which we can just edit.

But it also has two other templates for showing era info "inline" (eg. in a list of items) or in tables (eg. the class spell lists). Right now we already have a large block of brown text that say "Velious Era" or "Chardok Revamp Era" or "Hole/Veeshan's Peak Era" next to such content (items, mobs, whatever).

With Green we'll likely use all these templates more: anytime a page will have any kind of "filter" (like the checkboxes to only show certain eras on the class spell pages), they will rely on these templates to tell which content is from when. Do we want to see slightly bigger blocks, such as "Hole/Veeshan's Peak Era (June 2000)", or do we want to try and reduce their footprint (and start only calling it "Hole Era")?

Clearly if a spell came out in the Hole era, we don't want "Hole/Veeshan's Peak Era (June 2000)" ... in the spell column that currently just says "Vel." :) But what about the "inline" templates that currently say the whole era?

For the sake of argument let's say we decide "the inline stuff will be too ugly with that much more text ". Even if we only change the page templates, how should the details work?

Right now we've got:

{{Stonebrunt Era}}

Anyone can check http://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Era_Templates and find the template to use (though most won't even do that).

We can ask the ones who will to add a time argument, so that you could specify "this came out in this month of this era":

{{Stonebrunt Era|September 2001}}

That seems easy enough to do, and no one could really object to slightly more accurate (but no more verbose) era text, right? Except ... I worry: what if Nilbog announces each patch like "this is patch #5". People are going to be thinking "we're on #5", and what they're really going to be looking for in the wiki is "is my sword in #6?" And we'll really want "Stonebrunt (#27-#31)" as the era text.

I'm not sure if live timeline months make sense here, since our timeline may be slightly different, live monthish? p99 green month (which we may not know until it happens)? p99 green patch #?

This.

You may have to change the name of the groups over time, I Assume this is trivial to rename existing category. Probably not for a user, but for the administrator it should be similar to a find/replace?

Yes and no. In general with categories, no, because they are part of the page. If you want to rename a category you have to edit every single page in it.

But luckily most of the era categories come from a template, and if we edit that template it changes every affected page. That means that we can tweak text on existing eras easily, and again I can even change the templates to let people specify details. That's probably the best path forward, but I'm still not sure of the exact details right now.

P.S. To educate myself on all this though, I did make a new http://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes page in the wiki

[Seungkyu]

This one is probably simple, but I'd like a Pre-Kunark only database before Green launches. That way we can categorize weapon by dps/armor by ac, and not see something out of Veeshan's Peak.

[stewe]

Back in 99 my first magic weapon as a rogue was a combine spear from gypsy camp in lavastorm for 50-60pp

[Halfcell]

Might even need to do some zone alterations for green for places like hate and fear. The classic versions are much different as most people know. However, it's not unthinkable for someone to look at Cazic Thule and think "OMFG I want that Bile Etched Obsidian Choker" not knowing that it wont drop for 2 years.

[loramin]

What about a Green auction tracker? Sorry if this was already addressed somewhere else.

This one is probably simple, but I'd like a Pre-Kunark only database before Green launches. That way we can categorize weapon by dps/armor by ac, and not see something out of Veeshan's Peak.

Unfortunately both of these fall in to Ravhin's camp (or any other brave volunteer who knows how to write PHP code and is willing to enhance Ravhin's work: http://wiki.project1999.com/code/p99wiki.extensions.zip

Personally I am highly allergic to writing PHP, so I can only do front-end stuff. A Green-only auction tracker needs a database to work (ie. can't be done on the "front-end").

As for filtering the items, the pages like http://wiki.project1999.com/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Druid/Ear/AllItems can already filter out the Velious items so ... that's something ... and in theory I could add checkboxes like the "NO DROP" ones I already added. But for them to work the checkbox needs to know which items are from which era, and that would require ... you guessed it: PHP work (from Ravhin) :(

Might even need to do some zone alterations for green for places like hate and fear. The classic versions are much different as most people know. However, it's not unthinkable for someone to look at Cazic Thule and think "OMFG I want that Bile Etched Obsidian Choker" not knowing that it wont drop for 2 years.

Ok here's something we players don't need anyone special for! I 100% agree that we're going to need to start "splitting" some zone pages, like the planes and Runnyeye.

Up until now we got by with both Runneyes being the same page, but someone is going to need to copy the RunnyEye Citadel page and make a new "Clan RunnyEye" page from it (the current one is just a redirect to RunnEye Citadel). Then someone will need to "wade through" the page and remove all the new stuff: get rid of Lord Pickclaw for instance. Then they'll also need to remove older stuff like "The Goblin King" from the Citadel page.

Someone will also need to do the same for any "overhauled" zones: the planes, all the Chardok-revamped zones, etc. ...

https://i.imgur.com/k9JmlU0.gif