Why are p99 devs trying to make Green non-classic and ignoring proof?

[Zuranthium]

The first year of Everquest was characterized by DPS being king when it came to camping things. Nobody owned any camp/NPC and nobody was entitled to anything, unless they earned it by doing the most damage to the target they wanted. Not everyone would try to play like that, many people chose to avoid competing somewhere that was "already camped", but it's the FACT of how the game was and how it was enforced. "Killing stealing" did not exist in terms of breaking any kind of rule (so long as it wasn't someone stalking another player everywhere), it was only a term that some players used to define competition, and a way of trying to blacklist the opposition.

Aside from the fact that the original EQ devs said they wanted a hands-off approach, and competing via damage for NPCs was explicitly allowed, until instituting the Play Nice Policy in 2000, there are also in-era documentations of these facts from players. Look at these quotes from an article written August 1999: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/082099_Geno_kill_Stealing.htm

You dont own any camping spots

If you are in a guild, ask you guild mates to come by and help. If you have a caster in your guild that is a higher level than the kill stealer, he can just take all of the kills from the area until the kill stealer decides to rotate or move on.

Some of you newer to being kill stolen from may try to petition the GMs for help. Do not waste yours or their time on that. The GMs, while they do a GREAT job (I honestly say and stand by that), can't do anything about it. Its not against the rules, or the exploiting of a bug. Im not so bothered when I see a dark elf or other evil race kill steal, they are just roleplaying their evil character.

The player who wrote this was just Level 30, yet already had ample experience with having to regularly fight over NPC's. It was a thing, all over the place. An integral part of the game, and of the roleplaying aspect of the game even. Stop trying to deny it.

This player, who describes themself as "good-aligned" and "anti KS", also advocates creating trains as a method of competition:

The other one that seems to work is casting Fear on the monster. Makes it run away, and they have a tough time making the kill. They still usually get the kill, but it gets annoying for them =) Also, in a dungeon they sometimes bring back a train ... annoying for you and your party, but if you have a good one you can deal with it usually. Deadly for the solo kill-stealing caster.

Again, something that was part of the game. They mention that by this point in EQ, you were not allowed to explicitly train directly onto a player. But fearing a mob or running mobs through a zone, using legal pathing, with the intent of dumping them somewhere to create chaos? Allowed.

The game is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, fully interactive, with players being able to make impactful decisions on the gameplay and society. It's not supposed to be a stagnant pixel farm. The current proposed item camp rule for Green, turns the game into something more mechanical than ever, a literal pixel treadmill. Just /list yourself and go afk in a zone all day, never having to fight anything, and just getting the item you want eventually. This absolute mindlessness and on-the-rails, spoon-fed gameplay is not at all what classic EQ ever was or was supposed to be.

At the very least, the 2000-era Play Nice Policy made people actually have to kill the NPCs during their turn in the rotation, and have to pay attention to the camp if they didn't want to die from adds or someone else's failed pull, when sitting there waiting their turn. Play the damn game!

[Demoraliser]

See my sig

[Legidias]

Neckbeards gonna neckbeard

[Octopath]

Guess you didn’t do all your homework OP

I want to address a few misconceptions I've seen about the Lists.

The items will still be going to those that put the time in. This is not a "Casual" mechanism. This is a "Fair playing field for those that can put the time in". You will need to be the appropriate level that we pre-determine to add to the list. You need to stay ONLINE and in the zone or near the camp. You need to pass AFK Check Mechanisms. You can only loot it once. Etc. This system is purely to prevent the same people or group of people from holding the camp for days or weeks at a time and stocking up the items for themself and their friends/guildies.

[Jibartik]

I always wondered what kind of personality type pics Magician.

I appreciate your appreciation for everquest fellow everquest player.

[Jimjam]

Asked and answered.

[aaezil]

This is a rant and or flame op is mad and or bad

[Zuranthium]

Guess you didn’t do all your homework OP

Your quote is completely irrelevant and describes an entirely un-classic environment. Sitting in a zone and "passing AFK check mechanisms" (aka, being able to click your mouse irregularly while playing another game or watching a movie) is nothing but brainless busywork, in service of spoon-fed pixels. It's not playing the game and it's not what EQ was ever supposed to be, nor how it ever was.

[Jlpstrtkng]

Neckbeards gonna neckbeard

^

[Danth]

I'd say I'm sorry you won't be allowed to kill-steal or generally act like a sociopath whenever you feel like it and without repercussion, but that'd be a lie. I'm not sorry at all.

Danth

[Sonderbeast]

See my sig OP

[Dolalin]

Someone else on the spectrum who is angry they'll have to play nice with their fellow humans.

Lock and move to resolved

[Brocode]

Know those Movies that starts with "based on the series book novels named XYZ" so this is a movie based on "Classic Everquest" also your more than welcome to not play in protest to your no classic feel

[YendorLootmonkey]

Why is being an online bully in a game so important to OP?

I feel like only a true sociopath that doesn't care about the health of the server community would complain about play nice policies being implemented right from the start to ensure a better game experience for all. Quit flying under the banner of "but it isn't classic" on this one.

[Pico]

every time i see op avatar I just know I'm about to read something embarrassing

[El-Hefe]

OP Keeps a bedpan next to his PC.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

We AlreaDy haD a serVer we CuD be assHats oN!

(RiP ReD)

[Vexenu]

As a thought experiment, let's say the OP's idea prevailed and was the rule on Green. Is there any way that does not end with groups of Wizard alts perma camping Guise/Manastone on a timer and selling loot rights? Knowing what we know about the P1999 playerbase, could we honestly expect anything different? I don't think we could. It would be a ridiculous shitfest. The list concept is the best compromise available to maintain the items as NPC drops.

Frankly, I would rather both items be removed entirely or awarded randomly in regular GM events for the first few months of the server.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Z, just compare the populations of the server with the play nice policy and the server where you can take what you want with enough force.

Pretty sure the devs did not spend 10 years of their lives to create a server environment where 30-50 neckbeards will chase everyone else off just to stay "as classic as possible".

[Nuggie]

In before moved to RnF. OP still on a very short list of people being ignored. No idea what's in his post, but if the title is any indication he is still ignore worthy.

[loramin]

Jesus christ I can't believe I'm doing this, but ... I'm going to defend Zura for a moment here (sort of).

Look, Zura is just that kid that believed all the other kids because he wanted to be cool. Like when a bunch of boys say "it'd be cool if someone stuck firecrackers up that cat's butt", but they're just being boys and no one is serious.

Well ... except for that one boy who doesn't quite fit in, but desperately wants to. He goes "yeah, that'd be cool", and both because he wants to belong, and because something's not 100% right with him, he actually sticks firecrackers up the cat's butt. And then he doesn't understand why all the boys reject him afterwards.

What I'm trying to get at is, we're the rest of the boys. We have a "classic fetish" here, and we compete over who knows more about how classic really was. Whenever R&N drop some patch that makes the game objectively worse (eg. removing pet windows), the "cool kids" all cheer and tell anyone who complains to go back to live.

Collectively we are not honest with ourselves about how some shit in classic really, truly, sucked. We all want to look cool to the true "cool kids" (R&N), so we defend classic no matter what. In a way, we're all responsible for this thread and Zura's mad crusade to make Green "really classic".

Zura is our creation, our "golem":

http://i.imgur.com/TUO4Y.png

(And yes, I did just start rewatching The Sopranos :))

[Ennewi]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162956

[Zuranthium]

Know those Movies that starts with "based on the series book novels named XYZ" so this is a movie based on "Classic Everquest" also your more than welcome to not play in protest to your no classic feel

Not the same case, as p99 purports to be as faithful of a recreation as possible, whether by copying the mechanics or making changes that help produce a "more classic" environment. This is an issue of validity and of someone misrepresenting their product and the history they say it's trying to copy.

Rogean the other day on his stream said "people didn't DPS race in Classic", which is absolutely incorrect. He doesn't know what he's talking about and either hasn't seen the facts, or refuses to face them.

He should admit he is wrong and stop trying to wrongfully defend this Green ruleset on the basis of it being "most faithful to the 1999 environment". Whatever his decision is for the ruleset, is ultimately whatever he wants, since he owns the server. But using FALSE statements to defend his opinion, is absolutely not tolerable and should not be accepted by anyone. If he would just admit he was wrong about how 1999 EQ worked, and give reasoning for why this ruleset is the better decision (in his mind), while keeping an open mind about why something else could be better, it would be a lot more truthful and wise.

I'd say I'm sorry you won't be allowed to kill-steal or generally act like a sociopath whenever you feel like it and without repercussion, but that'd be a lie.

Competition is not "acting like a sociopath". It's playing the game, and it's not "without repercussion", as others in the playerbase will always judge you for your actions, particularly when people are actually allowed to make meaningful decisions. You show little understanding of how a real MMORPG is supposed to operate, and how EQ in fact operated in 1999.

Your line of argument is like calling a basketball player a sociopath for ever trying to score a 3-point shot or pass the ball far across the court, and demanding that everyone is only allowed to make 2 point shots, in a single file line, while walking slowly up to the net. Yeah, cause that sure would be an interesting game, right? :rolleyes:

Neckbeards gonna neckbeard

Exactly what is this directed at? Because the proposed rule for green enables skill-less neckbearding.

With classic 1999 ruleset, people get to compete for general content without playing all day, and regardless of what guild they join. Whoever makes the best group and wants to go fight for it, is going to get some wins. You can go in somewhere with your 6-person crew compete for a camp; doesn't matter if "uber guild xyz" is there or if the same person has been sitting there like a vegetable and trying to hoard the camp all day/week. DPS count caps out at what a single 6-person group does, so whoever puts the effort in to maximize that effectiveness and find a good place to fight, is always going to be competitive.

Pretty sure the devs did not spend 10 years of their lives to create a server environment where 30-50 neckbeards will chase everyone else off just to stay "as classic as possible".

Again, classic ruleset does not reward a small group of neckbeards. Where you are drawing this misunderstanding from? The current proposed ruleset is more neckbeardy than both 1999 era EQ and "Play Nice Policy" era EQ, as it rewards people for sitting around online for as long as possible on an item list, instead of actually playing the game, and getting the thrill of winning via competition, or at least the surprise of having the item drop when it's your turn to kill the NPC.

----

Jesus christ I can't believe I'm doing this, but ... I'm going to defend Zura for a moment here (sort of).

Look, Zura is just that kid that believed all the other kids because he wanted to be cool. Like when a bunch of boys say "it'd be cool if someone stuck firecrackers up that cat's butt".

No. You've completely missed the point, as usual.

[ThonDaMan]

Neckbeard has been triggered that his plan to perma-camp was spoiled.

[Cen]

Not EXACTLY classic, cool ranch doritos

Well I mean, if you can create a situation that forces everyone who will play on green to forget what items drop where in the game, use a dialup connection, and old operating systems and the first client, help those bros out.

[Jibartik]

No. You've completely missed the point, as usual.

I love when the trolls and ogres gets defended by dark elves and then they are like :mad: SHUTUP SMURF

:cool:

[Chortles Snort|eS]

https://i.imgur.com/dYYiMcZ.jpg

[KOOLLAYD]

I don't know why you all are giving the OP shit. He made some valid points. You should earn what you get in game. In any game really. I also get why they made the changes they did. People weren't pulling the crap on live back then that some of them do now. Not really. Honestly though I think everyone should wait and see how it actually works in game before forming an opinion about whether or not it is a good or bad idea. I'm just saying. ;)

[Vx36]

Your line of argument is like calling a basketball player a sociopath for ever trying to score a 3-point shot or pass the ball far across the court, and demanding that everyone is only allowed to make 2 point shots, in a single file line, while walking slowly up to the net. Yeah, cause that sure would be an interesting game, right? :rolleyes:
This would only be true if Everquest was a competitive sport which it is not. I know neckbeards want to play the game like it is but games are more fun when you share them with others.

[Coridan]

You're forgetting the biggest difference between P99 and classic that can't really be changed (or you would bitch about just as much if it was) that's FORESIGHT.

There weren't guilds permacamping manastone and guise in classic. At least not any more than people camped FBSS or other cool items. They didn't know the item was going to be removed one day so there wasn't an obsession with having it. Unless you get rid of those items from day 1 of the server people know they're going to no long drop one day so everyone has way more interest in getting it while they can than they would have during classic era.

[Demoraliser]

Be reasonable nilbog,
I left my wife and signed away the kids to her. She did get a majority of everything in the divorce. I have to pay alimony and child support for the next 12 years. I did this all so I could camp manastones and guises for all 8 characters on each of my 25 accounts. I already planned on losing my job because I can't be bothered to go into work. So I've got the welfare paperwork pre-filled out and ready to submit oct 25th. I invested in enhancements to my bathroom so I can play continuously. Pizza hut and kfc are on my speed dial in case I need the raw energy to push forwards. I hope you reconsider the camp lists idea. It's detrimental to the health and community of green. Hopefully you'll see things for what they should be, classic.

[Topgunben]

I actually agree with OP.

As much as i hate the idea of someone camping a mob for hours, only to be out DPS`d at the last moment, too much red tape can ruin the classic experience.

These rules seek to make things more fair, but the allure of EQ has always been the unpredictable nature of the game, otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

[Demoraliser]

otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

No, that's how nilbog and rogean want it coded actually.
See my sig.

[slowpoke68]

As someone else pointed out OP, you can sit this one out in protest, and so can anyone else who feels the need to be an utter and complete dick about a bunch of circa 1999 pixels on a computer screen.

[pink grapefruit]

Still can't believe they're making green a pve server. How do they get away with this nonsense?

The people want pvp omfg.

[soronil]

I actually agree with OP.

As much as i hate the idea of someone camping a mob for hours, only to be out DPS`d at the last moment, too much red tape can ruin the classic experience.

These rules seek to make things more fair, but the allure of EQ has always been the unpredictable nature of the game, otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

You do understand that this will only be in effect for very few drops. Only.drops that the community already knows will cause a lot of problems and just be toxic 100% of the time. I would be surprised if the number of items this applies to is more than like 5. For now all way know is manastone and guise.

[Zuranthium]

I don't know why you all are giving the OP shit. He made some valid points. You should earn what you get in game. In any game really. I also get why they made the changes they did. People weren't pulling the crap on live back then that some of them do now. Not really. Honestly though I think everyone should wait and see how it actually works in game before forming an opinion about whether or not it is a good or bad idea. I'm just saying. ;)

We can already tell how it will work, though, at least according to what was written.

Items only drop a particular # of times per day. If getting an item is determined by remaining online and "non afk", then a non-neckbeardy player is inherently never going to be able to get certain items, so long as the minimum wait time is something like 24+ hours (which is already a very conservative estimate for what you can expect when arriving to a certain camp with a list going).

Neckbeardy players who share accounts can hand off their list spot and just keep bringing different accounts/characters to the camp, while people who don't do that will inherently be removed from this impossible-to-achieve list, since no normal player is going to stay logged on for such long periods of time.

As someone else pointed out OP, you can sit this one out in protest, and so can anyone else who feels the need to be an utter and complete dick about a bunch of circa 1999 pixels on a computer screen.

Nobody is being a "complete and utter dick". The issue here is history and what is correct. When people try to incorrectly portray history, it's not a problem that you fix by "sitting out" and staying silent. That doesn't change things. p99 describes itself as trying to be a museum of the game as it existed back then. If you are a museum of American history, for example, and you try to intentionally leave out the American Civil War as something which happened, that's a big yikes. And that's what is happening here right now, on p99.

Also, I wasn't going to play Green server regardless, so long as it was only static recreation of the outdated game code. There's just no point for me, unless my friends wanted to try it for the first time. In that case I could have found enjoyment in getting to see friends experience a new EQ server for the first time, and follow along with their journey.

[Jadian]

Sheesh, someone needs to be less aspy and go play on their own server

[stewe]

The first year of Everquest was characterized by DPS being king when it came to camping things. Nobody owned any camp/NPC and nobody was entitled to anything, unless they earned it by doing the most damage to the target they wanted. Not everyone would try to play like that, many people chose to avoid competing somewhere that was "already camped", but it's the FACT of how the game was and how it was enforced. "Killing stealing" did not exist in terms of breaking any kind of rule (so long as it wasn't someone stalking another player everywhere), it was only a term that some players used to define competition, and a way of trying to blacklist the opposition.

Aside from the fact that the original EQ devs said they wanted a hands-off approach, and competing via damage for NPCs was explicitly allowed, until instituting the Play Nice Policy in 2000, there are also in-era documentations of these facts from players. Look at these quotes from an article written August 1999: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/082099_Geno_kill_Stealing.htm








The player who wrote this was just Level 30, yet already had ample experience with having to regularly fight over NPC's. It was a thing, all over the place. An integral part of the game, and of the roleplaying aspect of the game even. Stop trying to deny it.

This player, who describes themself as "good-aligned" and "anti KS", also advocates creating trains as a method of competition:



Again, something that was part of the game. They mention that by this point in EQ, you were not allowed to explicitly train directly onto a player. But fearing a mob or running mobs through a zone, using legal pathing, with the intent of dumping them somewhere to create chaos? Allowed.

The game is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, fully interactive, with players being able to make impactful decisions on the gameplay and society. It's not supposed to be a stagnant pixel farm. The current proposed item camp rule for Green, turns the game into something more mechanical than ever, a literal pixel treadmill. Just /list yourself and go afk in a zone all day, never having to fight anything, and just getting the item you want eventually. This absolute mindlessness and on-the-rails, spoon-fed gameplay is not at all what classic EQ ever was or was supposed to be.

At the very least, the 2000-era Play Nice Policy made people actually have to kill the NPCs during their turn in the rotation, and have to pay attention to the camp if they didn't want to die from adds or someone else's failed pull, when sitting there waiting their turn. Play the damn game!

So basically you want to be a jerk cause it is classic, no thanks

[Zeboim]

As we all know, this community has shown an immense ability to police itself and restrain its neckbeardiest elements.

[Canelek]

Valley trash complains about games he doesn't want to play. Good work!

[skorge]

OP, read this and then you may change your mind:

To start, in 1999/2000, nobody knew that the guise would be changed. People did not bother farming it for all of their alts because they thought that it would be in the game FOREVER (some people didn't even loot it on their main because it's a common drop on an easy camp - they could come back later and do it with a friend). A classic server can not recreate this. People know. The whole P99 server knows. It is impossible unless you have one of those Men In Black thingies that wipe your brain. No server will ever be true to classic because of this.

Adding a feature such as list actually helps a classic server in the sense of it reduces the number of items on the server emulating classic.

Image if in 1999, everyone knew the exact date the manastone was going to be removed from the start of the server? IT WOULD BE CHAOS! Did that happen? No. But if it did, rule sets would have been changed, no doubt. Here's what's crazy: I would even venture out to say that most people didn't even want the manastone back then. It can be hard to believe this, but put yourself in these people's shoes: It was an easy camp, several dropped a day...you think to yourself "I can always come back and camp one later. It's not worth much and I can't even use it." Well little did these people know it would be removed from the game. This changes EVERYTHING.

Almost every item, minus rubicite was given no fair warning. Rubicite was only given 1-2 weeks. A rubicite breastplate only dropped once every 12-24 hours on average in classic (way rarer than manastone) - this is nothing like the manastone where several drop a day. All other big item camps were group content (GEBs, Yaks, etc) or super rare pops (ie Bilge, GBS, etc).

This leaves you with exp camps and people KSing for exp. Yes this went on in classic (early 1999). But after reading the above, the rules Verant created would have been changed from the get go if people knew guises and manastones would be removed from the game (as this would create a mad rush to loot and secure them - the faster people level the more manastones/guises they can get).

I hope this helps you.

[Jimjam]

Not sure what OP is even mad about. Neither blue nor green follow the 2000 PNP.

Pre-PNP (1999) GMs were free to enforce their server as they saw fit, whether through neglect or meddling.

P1999 chosing meddling is 100% classic. Sorry you played on a neglect server (which would also have been 100% classic if the people making the CSR decisions had decided to go down that route).

If anything you should be mad the 2000 PNP isn't enforced on blue and you ahould be mad we aren't strong armed into sharing via 'turn taking' on EVERYTHING.

[Ghilran]

Did none of you played on official TLPs servers? PNP was famously not enforced on these servers AND a lot of them had a boxing problem. Bottom l line is it never was much of a problem for most of the content, and was really only visible on the raid scene where DPS races were the norm. I've never been a fan of those but they are arguably as good a way to distribute loot as FTE is.

[Daud]

Not sure what OP is even mad about.

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

I don't want what OP posted about, but, I also don't get the name calling dog pile that's going on or why it's being allowed to continue. Y'all seem to not understand who's actually being shitty in this thread because it isn't OP.

[loramin]

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

This is true, and if there was just this thread in isolation I'd 100% agree with you. Minority opinions are great, and are too often "shouted down" here.

... but that's not what's happened in this case. Far from being "shouted down", OP has been trying to hijack every Green thread for the past month or so to argue over this Green decision. He feels very passionately (mad) about.

[a_gnome_collector]

The first year of Everquest was characterized by DPS being king when it came to camping things. Nobody owned any camp/NPC and nobody was entitled to anything, unless they earned it by doing the most damage to the target they wanted. Not everyone would try to play like that, many people chose to avoid competing somewhere that was "already camped", but it's the FACT of how the game was and how it was enforced. "Killing stealing" did not exist in terms of breaking any kind of rule (so long as it wasn't someone stalking another player everywhere), it was only a term that some players used to define competition, and a way of trying to blacklist the opposition.

Aside from the fact that the original EQ devs said they wanted a hands-off approach, and competing via damage for NPCs was explicitly allowed, until instituting the Play Nice Policy in 2000, there are also in-era documentations of these facts from players. Look at these quotes from an article written August 1999: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/082099_Geno_kill_Stealing.htm







The player who wrote this was just Level 30, yet already had ample experience with having to regularly fight over NPC's. It was a thing, all over the place. An integral part of the game, and of the roleplaying aspect of the game even. Stop trying to deny it.

This player, who describes themself as "good-aligned" and "anti KS", also advocates creating trains as a method of competition:



Again, something that was part of the game. They mention that by this point in EQ, you were not allowed to explicitly train directly onto a player. But fearing a mob or running mobs through a zone, using legal pathing, with the intent of dumping them somewhere to create chaos? Allowed.

The game is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, fully interactive, with players being able to make impactful decisions on the gameplay and society. It's not supposed to be a stagnant pixel farm. The current proposed item camp rule for Green, turns the game into something more mechanical than ever, a literal pixel treadmill. Just /list yourself and go afk in a zone all day, never having to fight anything, and just getting the item you want eventually. This absolute mindlessness and on-the-rails, spoon-fed gameplay is not at all what classic EQ ever was or was supposed to be.

At the very least, the 2000-era Play Nice Policy made people actually have to kill the NPCs during their turn in the rotation, and have to pay attention to the camp if they didn't want to die from adds or someone else's failed pull, when sitting there waiting their turn. Play the damn game!

Sir you are nothing but trash. Go get a job and a life plz.

[Ennewi]

On a teams PvP server, the lack of PNP might work. Then, at least it wouldn't just be a DPS race but a question of where all classes would focus their attention between PC and NPC targets. You don't win the DPS race if we kill off your Wizards. Now your team has to hide those few remaining (shrunken) casters from our left mouse-clicks, encircling them with Ogres/Trolls like elephant calves in a herd and dedicating healers to each, otherwise we pick them off one by one. This puts the MA in jeopardy, especially if we all decide to focus him down at 15% because one of your Clerics was late in the rotation or, lom, tried to get the most out of a CHeal.

That allows for a more equal playing field, where all classes could potentially swing the fight in either direction. A DPS race in PVE would be all reward for burst damage classes and no risk other than their reputation, which wouldn't matter once they chased everyone off "their" server.

A degree of risk has to be in place for damage dealers, otherwise it devolves into casual griefing. It wouldn't be much different if priests and paladins were able to heal NPCs, causing a group or raid to wipe with a single well-timed cast of torpor or celestial. Heal classes could also then counter or undo the DPS done to a target by the opposing force, making them equally valuable.

Ex. #1: If a Cleric happens upon a Mage who is about to win a fight against Quillmane, but the Cleric greater heals old horsefeathers and then chain stuns the elemental pet(s), Mage eats a glorious death and Cleric earns a relatively easy, but still slow solo QM kill. This extends into raid territory as well.

Ex. #2: All waves of the Ring War have been defeated and a "team" awaits Narandi's spawn as another starts logging in by the river. Narandi spawns and other team begins the DPS race. But now, instead of simply trying to down Narandi ASAP, the original raid leader is calling on Clerics to switch rotation from MA to Narandi while Enchanter rune. MA happens to be SK, so they FD the aggro which jumps to other team's DPS. Original team waits until opposition numbers thin out, then reestablishes heals on MA and resumes as before.

Ex. #3: If your SK tries to snipe my Paladin's Ancient Cyclops with Harm Touch and DOTs, I should be able to Lay on Hands it and cure its poisons/diseases. And, in doing so, I would dump a lot of previously built hate, forcing you to tank the AC while I went on the offensive. It would even make sense from a RP perspective, with the enemy of my enemy being my friend.

TL;DR...
If you want to kill steal, I ought to be able to heal the kill, preventing my target from dying or delaying its death while I send out tells for allied DPS to port in.

[kjs86z]

every time i see op avatar I just know I'm about to read something embarrassing

[Daud]

This is true, and if there was just this thread in isolation I'd 100% agree with you. Minority opinions are great, and are too often "shouted down" here.

... but that's not what's happened in this case. Far from being "shouted down", OP has been trying to hijack every Green thread for the past month or so to argue over this Green decision. He feels very passionately (mad) about.

Out of curiosity, I looked through his post history for that last couple weeks since you mentioned it and he's not name calling on the same level that is happening in this thread. He isn't writing paragraphs of condescending trolling like you are, or calling people aspy, sociopath, trash, or a dickhead, and all the rest on in this thread that's been thrown at him. That seems to be mostly on you guys.

As far as "hijacking", he's got one or two posts in most threads, and if it isn't talking about green he doesn't bring it up. The times he does being up the PNP/DPS race shit, it's at the very least tangentially related to the thread subject or it's responses and again, only a couple posts. Sorry, I'm really just not seeing anything super unreasonable to just justify giving all you guys a free pass to shit all over a Server Chat thread. If he was spamming a bunch of mindless shit like red posters, sure, I could see what you mean, but it isn't even close.

I don't know the guy, I don't even agree with his opinions, but what you're saying doesn't seem to be happening in his post history, at least for the last month like you stated. The only reason I even took notice on this was your response in particular. You're a pretty level headed and helpful guy in these forums, but in this case you seem to be vastly, vastly, overstating OP's post history and just running with the mob. It's just overall really strange. Usually I'd report and move on, but this forum doesn't seem to have a report function (unless I'm really just missing it). There should have been some forum vacation time for a lot of you instead of just a move to RNF regardless of how you felt about a literal handful or two of OP's posts in the past month.

[loramin]

He isn't writing paragraphs of condescending trolling like you are

As far as "hijacking", he's got one or two posts in most threads, and if it isn't talking about green he doesn't bring it up. The times he does being up the PNP/DPS race shit, it's at the very least tangentially related to the thread subject or it's responses and again, only a couple posts.

but in this case you seem to be vastly, vastly, overstating OP's post history and just running with the mob. It's just overall really strange.

In all honesty, it sounds like you didn't really try very hard. I don't blame you: reading the random posting history of random posters isn't the most fun thing in the world, and that's even more true when the poster in question endlessly talks about something dumb like eliminating the PnP.

But look, I have absolutely nothing against Zura or any other poster in particular that I can think of ATM. I have had some beefs with people over the years (eg. Mick, Scarred Child), but they've all been the sort of people who eventually got themselves banned, so today I have nothing personal against anyone (that I can remember at least ... I do smoke a lot of pot).

But, I very much noticed a pattern in Zura's posting. As you said, they'd find a thread about Green, find some tangential angle to bring up his "get rid of the PnP" idea, and then he'd reply to (pretty much literally) every response to his idiotic idea. Very quickly the thread would become yet another "everyone vs. Zura" argument over the PnP.

To be clear, changing a thread topic (on purpose or on accident) is not wrong. Arguing forcefully, even for a losing position, is not wrong (clearly if I didn't agree with that I would never defend rotations in RnF). But when you display a consistent pattern of taking over other people's thread, forcing the exact same conversation to happen, and then not even really having a conversation at all, just yelling until everyone gives up trying to communicate with you ... that's rude.

Zura has something they feel passionately about. They really want a PnP-less Green. Lots of nerds here feel uber-passionate about their stupid nerdy thing (/cough the wiki /cough). I have no issue with passionate nerds.

What I do have an issue with is someone interjecting their pet topic, over and over and over again, into threads that previously were about something else ... and then NOT DIALOGUING IN ANY OF THEM. Never once did Zura ever listen to anyone in any of those threads. He also never once changed a single mind of a single person reading ... because he wasn't trying to.

All he wanted to do was take over any Green thread he saw and then (virtually) shout as loud and as hard as he could about his pet topic, knowing full well that no one had any interest in what he had to say (because they'd told him as much in the last five threads), and not actually trying to engage or sway anyone, just yelling a lot. And that bugged me.

[Jadian]

I'm not sure why people think OP is mad. Having a different opinion, one with at least some historical support, doesn't make someone mad.

I don't want what OP posted about, but, I also don't get the name calling dog pile that's going on or why it's being allowed to continue. Y'all seem to not understand who's actually being shitty in this thread because it isn't OP.

For fucks sake this stupid red pilling shit needs to stop, now it's part of everquest too?

We get it you morons, there's "good people" on both sides.

Except in these types of discussion one side is always being completely fucking disingenuous of why they want what they're saying. You want shit to be better for you in a specific circumstance? Fine, say that and end the discussion there, quit trying to lawyer your position into something it isn't.

This dude wants to be able to steal from anyone he wants and have it be ok. In a few months he'll be complaining about all the "carebears" who don't wanna play with him. It's his own shitty fucking attitude and lack of cooperation that ends in both of these circumstances, he's not just "exploring ideas" or some bullshit like that.

[Dolalin]

This dude wants to be able to steal from anyone he wants and have it be ok. In a few months he'll be complaining about all the "carebears" who don't wanna play with him. It's his own shitty fucking attitude and lack of cooperation that ends in both of these circumstances, he's not just "exploring ideas" or some bullshit like that.

[Wonkie]

sometimes people express their opinion in the form of an insult :)

[shuklak]

Lotta healthy stuff going on here.

[kaizersoze]

Someone needs to make a group dedicated to sniping all of the OPs targets until they quit playing.

[Troxx]

This again?

[Demoraliser]

oh fuck yeah, RnF baby

[Tethler]

OP makes yet another thread trying to argue for "more classic" yet forgetting the most important thing about p99. Rogean and Nilbog can do whatever tf they want with the server and don't need to explain themselves or justify anything unless they want to. There is nothing OP or anyone else can do about it. Their vision of classic and your vision don't match? Too bad. I have things I don't like about the server too, but it is literally a waste of my time to make threads complaining about it.

They make the server any way they like. We can play on it, or not play on it. Each person needs to decide if it's something they want to spend their time on. Thats. It.

[Rang]

every time i see op avatar I just know I'm about to read something embarrassing

We need someone to have the Billy Madison "We are all dumber for having listened" gif posted immediately anytime OP makes a post

[Muggens]

Classic example of blue sheep ganging up on the one red sheep

[Demoraliser]

Classic example of blue sheep ganging up on the one red sheep

This aint minecraft you can't say things like that in 2019

[k9quaint]

Have manastones drop from random mobs in random zones 3 times a month.
Make EVERYONE mad.

https://i.imgur.com/9gaSC.gif

[aaezil]

The first year of Everquest was characterized by DPS being king when it came to camping things. Nobody owned any camp/NPC and nobody was entitled to anything, unless they earned it by doing the most damage to the target they wanted. Not everyone would try to play like that, many people chose to avoid competing somewhere that was "already camped", but it's the FACT of how the game was and how it was enforced. "Killing stealing" did not exist in terms of breaking any kind of rule (so long as it wasn't someone stalking another player everywhere), it was only a term that some players used to define competition, and a way of trying to blacklist the opposition.

Aside from the fact that the original EQ devs said they wanted a hands-off approach, and competing via damage for NPCs was explicitly allowed, until instituting the Play Nice Policy in 2000, there are also in-era documentations of these facts from players. Look at these quotes from an article written August 1999: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/082099_Geno_kill_Stealing.htm







The player who wrote this was just Level 30, yet already had ample experience with having to regularly fight over NPC's. It was a thing, all over the place. An integral part of the game, and of the roleplaying aspect of the game even. Stop trying to deny it.

This player, who describes themself as "good-aligned" and "anti KS", also advocates creating trains as a method of competition:



Again, something that was part of the game. They mention that by this point in EQ, you were not allowed to explicitly train directly onto a player. But fearing a mob or running mobs through a zone, using legal pathing, with the intent of dumping them somewhere to create chaos? Allowed.

The game is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, fully interactive, with players being able to make impactful decisions on the gameplay and society. It's not supposed to be a stagnant pixel farm. The current proposed item camp rule for Green, turns the game into something more mechanical than ever, a literal pixel treadmill. Just /list yourself and go afk in a zone all day, never having to fight anything, and just getting the item you want eventually. This absolute mindlessness and on-the-rails, spoon-fed gameplay is not at all what classic EQ ever was or was supposed to be.

At the very least, the 2000-era Play Nice Policy made people actually have to kill the NPCs during their turn in the rotation, and have to pay attention to the camp if they didn't want to die from adds or someone else's failed pull, when sitting there waiting their turn. Play the damn game!

what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

[Dolalin]

Starting to think maybe some of these cunts had been betting on locking down these camps to make their rent. Devs have really upset the assisted-living applecart here.

[Bardp1999]

While I understand and even agree with OP, I have to acknowledge that Rogean is being proactive in saving players from their selves. I mean even to this day the "camp" of a lvl 20 orc for Shiny Brass Idol is locked down for literally days/weeks 24/7 by assholes wasting their lives to get an immunity idol so they can kill the same dragon for the 5,00th time.

OP is not giving enough credit to the level of neckbeard that lives on this server - As soon as AM or Riot got the Manastone of Guise camp it would NEVER leave that guild, and this would probably start on like day 3 of the servers life.

[Vidar]

I'd say I'm sorry you won't be allowed to kill-steal or generally act like a sociopath whenever you feel like it and without repercussion, but that'd be a lie. I'm not sorry at all.

Danth

This

[derpcake2]

I played on Xegony from launch (Alabrio) and I was one of the only players that came near a ban before Kunark launched.

One of my "feats" involved running into a chinese PoF raid and yelling "nagasaki hiroshima boom boom".

My geography was not to great back then. It didn't prevent me from training them and causing a 14 hour CR.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I played on Xegony from launch (Alabrio) and I was one of the only players that came near a ban before Kunark launched.

One of my "feats" involved running into a chinese PoF raid and yelling "nagasaki hiroshima boom boom".

My geography was not to great back then. It didn't prevent me from training them and causing a 14 hour CR.

Lol was that Jade Dragon you did that to?

[Zuranthium]

In 1999/2000, nobody knew that the guise would be changed. People did not bother farming it for all of their alts because they thought that it would be in the game FOREVER (some people didn't even loot it on their main because it's a common drop on an easy camp - they could come back later and do it with a friend). A classic server can not recreate this. People know. The whole P99 server knows. It is impossible unless you have one of those Men In Black thingies that wipe your brain. No server will ever be true to classic because of this.

Adding a feature such as list actually helps a classic server in the sense of it reduces the number of items on the server emulating classic.

Your first paragraph is how everything works for an "exact code" recreated server, so that's completely irrelevant.

Your second paragraph is absolutely false. Lists don't reduce the number of items on the server at all. They will be farmed the same. It only changes who is allowed to get the item, which in this case will be people who share accounts and sit around doing nothing, instead of being able to fight for it. Fighting for camps is Classic EQ, and p99 has now removed a large part of what made classic EQ feel alive, and replaced it with an unclassic WoW-esque mechanic.

1999-era competition for camps is actually the one thing that slightly reduces the amount of items on the server, because it means people will sometimes have to spend time doing something other than killing the NPC as soon as it spawns (ie, managing adds that have been brought to the camp).

If in 1999, everyone knew the exact date the manastone was going to be removed from the start of the server? IT WOULD BE CHAOS! Did that happen? No.

It did happen, though, that element of chaos and fighting for NPC's. Not in terms of everyone rushing to the manastone camp and fighting for it, but in terms of the gameplay in general, and disputes that would happen in ANY area in the game. People were fighting over freaking orc and gnoll spawns in 1999. THAT was classic Everquest.

I would even venture out to say that most people didn't even want the manastone back then.

What a ridiculous line of thought. Everyone would have wanted to get it, if they knew about it. Most people simply didn't know about the item, much less where it dropped from.

---

Pre-PNP (1999) GMs were free to enforce their server as they saw fit, whether through neglect or meddling.

No they weren't "free" to do that. There were specific rules in place by the game devs - Verant. If a GM didn't follow it, then a player could contact real-world CSR about it, and that GM could be removed from their position. Most players simply didn't get involved with such things, but regardless, "kill stealing" was allowed on EVERY server. Server-specific GM's had no allowable authority to stop it, and if they did abuse their power, then the player could take action against it.

If anything you should be mad the 2000 PNP isn't enforced on blue and you should be mad we aren't strong armed into sharing via 'turn taking' on EVERYTHING.

Oh, but I am upset about that too, and have talked about it many times. p99 has the worst possible ruleset, not just in terms of the gameplay it creates, but it terms of being true to classic.

[aaezil]

Your first paragraph is how everything works for an "exact code" recreated server, so that's completely irrelevant.

Your second paragraph is absolutely false. Lists don't reduce the number of items on the server at all. They will be farmed the same. It only changes who is allowed to get the item, which in this case will be people who share accounts and sit around doing nothing, instead of being able to fight for it. Fighting for camps is Classic EQ, and p99 has now removed a large part of what made classic EQ feel alive, and replaced it with an unclassic WoW-esque mechanic.

1999-era competition for camps is actually the one thing that slightly reduces the amount of items on the server, because it means people will sometimes have to spend time doing something other than killing the NPC as soon as it spawns (ie, managing adds that have been brought to the camp).



It did happen, though, that element of chaos and fighting for NPC's. Not in terms of everyone rushing to the manastone camp and fighting for it, but in terms of the gameplay in general, and disputes that would happen in ANY area in the game. People were fighting over freaking orc and gnoll spawns in 1999. THAT was classic Everquest.



What a ridiculous line of thought. Everyone would have wanted to get it, if they knew about it. Most people simply didn't know about the item, much less where it dropped from.

---



No they weren't "free" to do that. There were specific rules in place by the game devs - Verant. If a GM didn't follow it, then a player could contact real-world CSR about it, and that GM could be removed from their position. Most players simply didn't get involved with such things, but regardless, "kill stealing" was allowed on EVERY server. Server-specific GM's had no allowable authority to stop it, and if they did abuse their power, then the player could take action against it.



Oh, but I am upset about that too, and have talked about it many times. p99 has the worst possible ruleset, not just in terms of the gameplay it creates, but it terms of being true to classic.

If you hate the rules here go play another game maybe try bitching on their forums too

[Zuranthium]

Idiotic logic from you again. p99 describes itself as trying to recreate Classic EQ. Problem is, that's a lie, as the server is not doing that.

Some people would like a real classic mechanics EQ server to exist. Particularly when the ability to do it is right here already, and the only thing stopping it is a dev who ignores what actually happened in classic and/or would create a better game, because he thinks (mistakenly) that his poorly conceived ruleset will increase the numbers on his server. The "classic EQ" brand on the internet now exists here, solely, creating a case of one person being able to control it, and thus distort the entire perception of EQ.

[Daloon]

Just raided Molten Core tonight and stumbled upon this thread. Yall need Jesus. That is all.

[Hibbs]

Just raided Molten Core tonight and stumbled upon this thread. Yall need Jesus. That is all.

Any good drops?

[Tethler]

Idiotic logic from you again. p99 describes itself as trying to recreate Classic EQ. Problem is, that's a lie, as the server is not doing that.

Some people would like a real classic mechanics EQ server to exist. Particularly when the ability to do it is right here already, and the only thing stopping it is a dev who ignores what actually happened in classic and/or would create a better game, because he thinks (mistakenly) that his poorly conceived ruleset will increase the numbers on his server. The "classic EQ" brand on the internet now exists here, solely, creating a case of one person being able to control it, and thus distort the entire perception of EQ.

Your opinions are bad. If you don't like this server, go make one yourself.

[Mead]

OP having an absolute meltdown

[YendorLootmonkey]

he thinks (mistakenly) that his poorly conceived ruleset will increase the numbers on his server.

I'm gonna go ahead and ask for a citation on this claim. I know that I would have never bothered with blue if people could just come take whatever they wanted after I spent X hours camping it. The saturated raid scene is bad enough already. Devs did/are doing the right thing by ensuring toxic/sociopathic human nature is minimized.

Aside from that, I don't ever recall Xegony having a problem with rampant killstealing/"might makes right" or I would have never played Live for 5 years. Maybe our GM Vedan ensured that and that was not the norm on other servers?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

The whole unpoliced thing would be fun for these people to start with. Then people would gather into literally train teams and perma kill the jerks doing it.

They would tire of dying eventually, when they have body after body with 1 item on to keep it from disappearing.

No PnP sounds all great and wild west (actually it sounds shit) but even the training jerks will get their payback (over and over till they have to make a new character to escape)

Seen it plenty of times. People are jerks to people, KS, train and ninja loot. Eventually their reputation preceedes them and they have to make a new character so no one knows them anymore (until they are exposed all over again)

[Jimjam]

https://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

OH my word. That was genuinally one of the best reads for years. Bravo fansy.

[derpcake2]

If this server was classic me and 30 other people would be active, while 500+ people were crying on the forum.

Training PoF raids repeatedly without any GM intervention is classic. Fearing mobs and claiming you wanted to screaming terror them (same spell icon) is classic.

Lets not pretend bluebies know what classic ever was like.

[Bardp1999]

Creating massive trains is not as risk-free or easy as it sounds. Player allowed training encourages grouping (safety in numbers) and Monks/Necro/SK that participate in this behavior quickly develop horrible horrible reputations and find them selves unable to procure rez's. A monk will eventually die when attempting to train another group...or if the group is strong enough its free pulls, either way its no where near as game-breaking as people are making it out to be here on the forums. I guess the exception is solo/duo groups getting shit on - which I approve of anyways because most here on P99 are ellitist assholes who like to min max group content with as little people as possible.

So in a way player sanctioned training would make P99 more group friendly and community based (reputations, ect)... which is the most #classic thing there is.

#WildWildWest

[aaezil]

Idiotic logic from you again. p99 describes itself as trying to recreate Classic EQ. Problem is, that's a lie, as the server is not doing that.

Some people would like a real classic mechanics EQ server to exist. Particularly when the ability to do it is right here already, and the only thing stopping it is a dev who ignores what actually happened in classic and/or would create a better game, because he thinks (mistakenly) that his poorly conceived ruleset will increase the numbers on his server. The "classic EQ" brand on the internet now exists here, solely, creating a case of one person being able to control it, and thus distort the entire perception of EQ.

Wah wah wah

Waaaaaaaah

Babys mad again

[Bardp1999]

Wah wah wah

Waaaaaaaah

Babys mad again

https://i.imgur.com/A0aGIDK.gif

[derpcake2]

Creating massive trains is not as risk-free or easy as it sounds. Player allowed training encourages grouping (safety in numbers) and Monks/Necro/SK that participate in this behavior quickly develop horrible horrible reputations and find them selves unable to procure rez's. A monk will eventually die when attempting to train another group...or if the group is strong enough its free pulls, either way its no where near as game-breaking as people are making it out to be here on the forums. I guess the exception is solo/duo groups getting shit on - which I approve of anyways because most here on P99 are ellitist assholes who like to min max group content with as little people as possible.

So in a way player sanctioned training would make P99 more group friendly and community based (reputations, ect)... which is the most #classic thing there is.

#WildWildWest

Have to love this guy.

Train virgin, obviously.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Confirmed

[Ennewi]

If this server was classic me and 30 other people would be active, while 500+ people were crying on the forum.

Training PoF raids repeatedly without any GM intervention is classic. Fearing mobs and claiming you wanted to screaming terror them (same spell icon) is classic.

Lets not pretend bluebies know what classic ever was like.

#tryred

[Zuranthium]

I know that I would have never bothered with blue if people could just come take whatever they wanted after I spent X hours camping it.

Nobody owns a camp and EQ was never intended for people to sit in the same spot all day long. If you don't want people to take your camp, then defend it by forming a group that is good enough to defeat the opposition. You are perfectly free to roll up to another camp as well and fight for it.

There is diplomacy too. Maybe people don't feel like fighting and you can agree to take turns.

Aside from that, I don't ever recall Xegony having a problem with rampant killstealing/"might makes right" or I would have never played Live for 5 years.

Yes you would have played, if the game had kept being updated to better service the idea of a living world, instead of continually becoming more watered down.

Different player communities will have different quirks and percentages of people who want to play a certain way. You didn't play early EQ though if you are trying to say it didn't exist. 5 years is not Classic EQ either. The first year of EQ is far different from what came after.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You didn't play early EQ though if you are trying to say it didn't exist. 5 years is not Classic EQ either. The first year of EQ is far different from what came after.

I am well aware of what 5 years I played, and it included the first year. I know i would not have gotten into EQ if i was a paying subscriber just getting bullied by other paying subscribers.

Maybe your server/GM handled things differently prior to the PNP being codified... ever think of that as a possibility?

[Tethler]

If you don't want people to take your camp, then defend it by forming a group that is good enough to defeat the opposition. You are perfectly free to roll up to another camp as well and fight for it.

Different player communities will have different quirks and percentages of people who want to play a certain way. You didn't play early EQ though if you are trying to say it didn't exist.

Sorry you played on a shitty server where people acted like absolute scumbags. I started in '99 and my server (Bertox) was most certainly not like this.

Keep your Stockholm syndrome to yourself. Nobody cares.

[Zuranthium]

Your server had it. EVERY server did. Facts. The amount is debatable, but it was always there, and sanctioned by the devs of Everquest. It was 100% allowed.

It's not "acting like a scumbag" either, it's playing the damn game, in a much more interesting way. That's how actual fantasy worlds and competitive games work (or even a casual game of Rummy or something), and it's something that creates compelling stories. Did people in Game of Thrones sit around doing nothing but idling a room? Is that what happened in Lord of the Rings? Or in Sword of Truth? Is that what anyone does in any sport or game? No, absolutely not. Those things would all be boring if that's how they worked.

You're basically advocating that every D&D game should be nothing but the dungeon master putting a couple monsters directly in front of the players for them to easily kill, and then doing it again after they've won without challenge. No story, no actual character involvement required, no real risk, no unpredictability. So dumb.

I know i would not have gotten into EQ if i was a paying subscriber just getting bullied by other paying subscribers.

You can't "get bullied" (or at least, anything that actually constitutes as such, is not allowed). Nothing in the game is entitled to you and the game is not supposed to be about having a personal NPC vending machine that just spawns in front of you, for you to brainlessly hack down.

The game itself is about adventure, moving through a chaotic fantasy world, and fighting for what you want and your survival. You are thrown into Norrath, like Frodo was thrown into the quest of the ring. If a more powerful team comes and takes your camp, so what? Go to another one. Or form a better team, and strive to be able to outplay them. That is the journey. Who cares if you level slower or get items slower. Levels and items have no actual purpose. You're just there to be transported and experience the game world as it comes at you.

[Tethler]

Stop talking like you're the definitive authority on classic Everquest. You aren't.

Your ideas suck. In this thread of 10 pages, you had like 1 person agree with you. This server will never adopt what you're asking for.

Sorry you didn't get to be an asshat on p99, too.

If you want to relive your classic experience so badly, I'd be happy to come train you a few dozen times.

[Videri]

Seems like none of you are changing each others' minds.

[shuklak]

If I was interested in changing my mind I'd read a book. I'm here to rub someone's face in my fucking opinion.

[Hibbs]

I started in '99 and my server (Bertox)

Bertox OG man!!

[Mead]

Does anyone know who OP is in game? I'm guessing some rando casual that belongs to a mom and pop guild. The reason I'm bringing this up is that if my assumption is correct, and what he's proposing is actually implemented, the dude would spend the rest of his days on p99 getting his shit pushed in. Maybe that's what he wants? Either that or he has no concept of reality.

[Zeboim]

I'm not gonna say I'm surprised by how many EQ players grew up into ancap libertarians but it does make me giggle girlishly.

[Mead]

If you guys were so hard nosed you would just go play red. But instead you want to pretend like you'd function in some anarchic elf world minus pvp. Everything is just going to figure itself out. If you genuinely think it's going to be that simple then you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on the past decade. And what the GMs here have had to deal with and know what they're preventing. Eventually there would be intervention or mass exodus. None of this is going to happen because of one or two assholes throwing a hissy fit.

[Rang]

Nobody owns a camp and EQ was never intended for people to sit in the same spot all day long. If you don't want people to take your camp, then defend it by forming a group that is good enough to defeat the opposition. You are perfectly free to roll up to another camp as well and fight for it.

There is diplomacy too. Maybe people don't feel like fighting and you can agree to take turns.



Yes you would have played, if the game had kept being updated to better service the idea of a living world, instead of continually becoming more watered down.

Different player communities will have different quirks and percentages of people who want to play a certain way. You didn't play early EQ though if you are trying to say it didn't exist. 5 years is not Classic EQ either. The first year of EQ is far different from what came after.

What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

[kjs86z]

What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

Except that the puppy...was a dog. But the industry my friends...that was a revolution.

[Rang]

Except that the puppy...was a dog. But the industry my friends...that was a revolution.

I think Zuranthiam should try to use the puppy / puppy book analogy and apply it to project 1999 and training. "You see..... the puppy was like a train .... and the little boy (the playerbase) was lost..... in lower guk"

[Chortles Snort|eS]

me understanD whEre OP is ComIng froM buT beTtEr to PnP MaKe foaR hEAlthiEr coMmuniTy
MaYbE neXt pVp sRv wuT u looKn fKr to b baDelf

[YendorLootmonkey]

Your server had it. EVERY server did. Facts.

Which is more likely...

A) you having played on every server during the first year so you know definitively that this was the case and you are not just projecting your own experience playing on what must have been an absolute shitshow of a server to play on,

B) you are Brad McQuaid or Gordon Wrinn himself, or

C) rules for the servers were handled differently by each Lead GM assigned to them, the best practices and lessons learned from each were used to develop the eventual PNP, so your experience during Year 1 was different than players not from your Live server, and therefore it is completely classic to have the devs here minimize sociopathic behavior in the best interests of fostering a healthy community.

You can keep being pedantic and twist my words, but the fact remains that if the ruleset was truly wild west "might makes right" in terms of killstealing or campstealing on Xegony for the first X number of months after release, I would not have put up with that shit and I would not have kept playing the first time I was camping an item with a group and some other group came in and pushed us out. Maybe GM Vedan was more hands on than your GM?

Unless you were a lead GM and you just let all the players fend for themselves on your server since that seems to be your predisposition. What server?

[Zeboim]

If we are just shouting out anecdotal shit here, I played on Veeshan where we would see Brad himself running around on his ranger, and we did lists for everything. I spent about 3 days waiting for my spot for my fbss. Sure the list was player based, but those were very different tomes on the internet.

[Videri]

If I was interested in changing my mind I'd read a book. I'm here to rub someone's face in my fucking opinion.

Carry on, then.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

ShoulD elF maiL bRad for official ruLing IMO

[Jimjam]

me understanD whEre OP is ComIng froM buT beTtEr to PnP MaKe foaR hEAlthiEr coMmuniTy
MaYbE neXt pVp sRv wuT u looKn fKr to b baDelf

Totally! I want to follow OP's line of thought about forging narratives. You spend days tracking down an infamous monster, holder of an artifact of great power. You break into his dungeon residence by brute force, slaying his minions in a challenge for him to face you personally. Just as you are about to engage the foul creature a stranger appears; unexpected assistance arrives!

The monster is slain, but to your horror you discover your 'helper' wants to keep the artifact to herself. You try to negotiate a fair way to resolve ownership of the item, but she won't play dice and she villainously takes what you worked so far.

Do you let her get away with it? No! You fight her for the right to the item, whether she consents or not.

Competition is a fine way to play Everquest, but it needs to be taken to its logical conclusion. PVE is explicitly players united against environment. Its about team work and sharing. It lends itself to the narratives of open raiding; adventurers joining together to overcome a common foe. Pvp is for more aggressive, competitive play. A horror survival world full of monsters and opportunists where you must watch your back because true alliances are not easy to come by.

[Darksinga]

I support the OP and this thread. As some one who hasn't played on P99 in years, I was shocked by this new, custom ruleset. In my opinion, it's more of a customization than DBG's live servers /picks where you can spawn instances.

Giving some one the loot, guaranteed, despite whomever kills it just sounds like a really bad thought out idea.

So you're the minimum level, pass the AFK checks... You get to roll up on a full groups camp and just start beating on their mobs to take their loot when it's your turn?

[reznor_]

OP ain’t shit. Who cares? Guise gonna drop for like 7 months then rip.

[Zephys]

If I was trying to secure the classic experience running this, I'd be making changes to loot tables. Stick manastone on a completely different mob somewhere, or start the server with all the famous nerfed items in their post-nerf forms and buff rare drops that people usually don't care much about.

That'd be a whole new nightmare of course, but it'd be fun to pull off.

[kjs86z]

https://youtu.be/Dhfx0bR7Zx4

[Jibartik]

OP's concerns seem pretty pedestrian compared to what's going on over in green right now lol

[Fame]

This was a epic post and anyone who disagrees is just mad/bad/fat

[brokenpromise]

Someone needs to make a group dedicated to sniping all of the OPs targets until they quit playing.

[brokenpromise]

Embarrassing people care this much about pixels.

[Lewkeng]

Embarrassing people care this much about pixels.

[Zuranthium]

Which is more likely...

A) you having played on every server during the first year so you know definitively that this was the case and you are not just projecting your own experience

Did you read the official EQ forums and other various forums and websites at the time? Did you read the evidence linked?

It seems you didn't and are only projecting your own limited experience. Fighting over NPC's was EVERYWHERE; it was not just a few servers at all. That was the classic 1999 EQ experience, if people wanted it to be. Again, it comes down to the players in the given sandbox. If you happened to mainly just encounter people who wanted to do no-competition camps, which yes many people did just want to play the game in more limited fashion, then you were in a bubble. EQ was never supposed to be limited to that, nor was that ever the rules as given by the game devs themselves in 1999.

UGH, I wish so badly that more archives from the time period existed. Not that more are even needed, since there's already direct statements from the Game Devs, of them saying that fighting over NPC's was allowed and they wanted a hands-off approach to it, and for the players to work it out.

[Hibbs]

and for the players to work it out.

LOL have you met some of the special breeds of P99?

[Deliverator]

"Why isn't it classic?"

Oh I don't know. Maybe because WE aren't classic? We have access to PERFECT information about the game which was not available in 1999. We aren't the wide variety of random people playing a game that we literally have no idea about for the first time. We are the most die hard fans of a game that we all love. The reason things aren't perfectly classic is because it CAN'T be perfectly classic.

[BlackBellamy]

UGH, I wish so badly that more archives from the time period existed. Not that more are even needed, since there's already direct statements from the Game Devs, of them saying that fighting over NPC's was allowed and they wanted a hands-off approach to it, and for the players to work it out.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001017135952/http://everquest.station.sony.com/s_conduct.shtml

e.g. You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns.

There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same thing. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise. If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to EverQuest Customer Service Staff involvement, the EQCSR will mandate a binding compromise. Refusing to abide by a compromise mandated by an EQCSR will be considered disruption. It is therefore strongly suggested that the groups make every attempt to reach a compromise that they can live with prior to involving an EQCSR, who may mandate a compromise that does not suit you to the extent that a player-devised compromise would.

The earliest instance of the PNP policy I could find is from Nov 2000, although I bet it was in place way earlier. So your glorious heyday of kill stealing, training, and monopolizing camps lasted barely a year if that. And the reason the PNP was put in play is because people were getting sick and tired of narcissistic anti-social assholes ruining it for everyone else. I'm not sure if your argument of "let everyone be an asshole until Verant historically decided enough was enough" is attractive.

[Nirgon]

I'd say I'm sorry you won't be allowed to kill-steal or generally act like a sociopath whenever you feel like it and without repercussion, but that'd be a lie. I'm not sorry at all.

Danth

I got my ass lit up by GMs for kill stealing on RZ even

Never legal, maybe not always caught and enforced

[Chortles Snort|eS]

I got my ass lit up

http://i.imgur.com/Uu961JV.jpg

[Sonark]

As a thought experiment, let's say the OP's idea prevailed and was the rule on Green. Is there any way that does not end with groups of Wizard alts perma camping Guise/Manastone on a timer and selling loot rights? Knowing what we know about the P1999 playerbase, could we honestly expect anything different? I don't think we could. It would be a ridiculous shitfest. The list concept is the best compromise available to maintain the items as NPC drops.

Frankly, I would rather both items be removed entirely or awarded randomly in regular GM events for the first few months of the server.Z, just compare the populations of the server with the play nice policy and the server where you can take what you want with enough force.

Pretty sure the devs did not spend 10 years of their lives to create a server environment where 30-50 neckbeards will chase everyone else off just to stay "as classic as possible".Sensible people.

[Sonark]

http://web.archive.org/web/20001017135952/http://everquest.station.sony.com/s_conduct.shtml



The earliest instance of the PNP policy I could find is from Nov 2000, although I bet it was in place way earlier. So your glorious heyday of kill stealing, training, and monopolizing camps lasted barely a year if that. And the reason the PNP was put in play is because people were getting sick and tired of narcissistic anti-social assholes ruining it for everyone else. I'm not sure if your argument of "let everyone be an asshole until Verant historically decided enough was enough" is attractive.This is wonderful

[Sonark]

Zuranthium is actually a decent debater.

He just debated on the wrong horse.

[Sonark]

Idiotic logic from you again. p99 describes itself as trying to recreate Classic EQ. Problem is, that's a lie, as the server is not doing that.Maybe you need to read the word trying a few more times.
Some people would like a real classic mechanics EQ server to exist."real classic mechanics"

Outside of game code, which was buggy (still is buggy, really. and well documented in exactly what ways. And you patch buggy things out of games, because that's how that works) you can't really try to argue about people's behaviours being "Classic"

Amendments happen for a reason, guuuuuuuy.

There was a rule for awhile that then wasn't a rule anymore.

Can we stack swords to infinite heights for a couple months to satisfy what you think of as well and truly Classic, or do you just really like this one mechanic and you're passionate enough about it to the point of madness?

Cause it can be one, both, or neitherParticularly when the ability to do it is right here already, and the only thing stopping it is a dev who ignores what actually happened in classic and/or would create a better game, because he thinks (mistakenly) that his poorly conceived ruleset will increase the numbers on his server.I think it will keep the numbers more stable and consistent.

The way it did on Live, when they changed this oddly specific thing you miss because it was genuinely toxic. The "classic EQ" brand on the internet now exists here, solely, creating a case of one person being able to control it, and thus distort the entire perception of EQ.This is actually true, but not really relevant to anything you're fighting for.

[Sonark]

And in fairness to genuine toxicity:

So are a lot of things that have happened and continue to happen in any situation involving human beings.

[Thomacles]

OP is right, no matter what you all are saying. I was there on live, and initially it absolutely was a hands-off approach. /Petition were for stuck characters and game mechanic stuff. /Report was for name violations or policy violations. /Bug was for reporting bugs. They stated in the ORIGINAL book that came with the initial CDs, that they "wanted to let the players play the way they want to play, in our world."

That being said, they did change that after they realized that when players are left to their own, chaos breaks out. So eventually, (I can't remember the date), that got replaced with the PNP.

We all know damned well, this server is far from original classic, but it's very close.

And to be honest, that's fine by me. I'm not sure I would want to go back to the "mob-rules" way of gaming again.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

If you wanna play by that ruleset, go play on a TLP server. DPS is the name of the game and there is essentially ZERO GM support.

Have fun!

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Did none of you played on official TLPs servers? PNP was famously not enforced on these servers AND a lot of them had a boxing problem. Bottom l line is it never was much of a problem for most of the content, and was really

I reckon you're misremembering. Last time I played a TLP (the most-recent server, Mangler) players were using hacks to track and warp to named mobs the instant they spawned to KS them.

It was such a problem, in fact, that DBG had to patch the functionality of charm to because Enchanters were charming named mobs to prevent others from killing them

[Ghilran]

I reckon you're misremembering. Last time I played a TLP (the most-recent server, Mangler) players were using hacks to track and warp to named mobs the instant they spawned to KS them.

It was such a problem, in fact, that DBG had to patch the functionality of charm to because Enchanters were charming named mobs to prevent others from killing them

I played on Ragefire, which was the last of the "bad" TLPs : no instancing and huge mage armies.

I, for one, never encountered an instance of ksing in regular leveling zones. I don't recall of it being a systemic problem, or to be mentioned in guild chat. This is just anecdotal evidence of course, but levelling was pretty chill and I remember effortlessly taking the guise camp for myself, getting it, and leaving.

Of course the raid scene was wholly different.

[Teppler]

Here’s my proposition to make everyone happy-

Classic discord server. No rules whatsoever. Winners get special prizes so stakes are high.

[Teppler]

No rules except no hacking.... which isn’t exactly classic discord but we’ll make this exception.

[Cecily]

Here’s my proposition to make everyone happy-

Classic discord server. No rules whatsoever. Winners get special prizes so stakes are high.

The lack of rules is, itself, a rule. Your server will perish and we here will laugh at your hubris.

[Mblake81]

Maybe you need to read the word trying a few more times."real classic mechanics"

Outside of game code, which was buggy (still is buggy, really. and well documented in exactly what ways. And you patch buggy things out of games, because that's how that works) you can't really try to argue about people's behaviours being "Classic"

Amendments happen for a reason, guuuuuuuy.

There was a rule for awhile that then wasn't a rule anymore.

Can we stack swords to infinite heights for a couple months to satisfy what you think of as well and truly Classic, or do you just really like this one mechanic and you're passionate enough about it to the point of madness?

Cause it can be one, both, or neitherI think it will keep the numbers more stable and consistent.

The way it did on Live, when they changed this oddly specific thing you miss because it was genuinely toxic. This is actually true, but not really relevant to anything you're fighting for.

I think he might be arguing that original eq is inseparable from the player base originally found there. There were lots of noobs, roleplayers from Table Top, sheer assholes as many were coming hot off the heels of Ultima Online. Those things did shape what to expect from the game when you logged on, they were part of the game and the memory.

Granted things do change, there is no real way to recapture that aspect. I wouldn't mind having a time machine to go back and experience it myself for a bit, if anything just to get away from 2019 people using Canadian descriptors such as Toxic. A bunch of female halflings marching around Misty Thicket carrying "No Hate Speech" signs. Angry about me stealing their bixie stonehive honies.

[Cecil]

The lack of rules is, itself, a rule. Your server will perish and we here will laugh at your hubris.

Now that’s deep

[BlackBellamy]

The lack of rules is, itself, a rule. Your server will perish and we here will laugh at your hubris.

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Sullon Zek the Empty?

I thought not. It's not a story the Care Bears would tell you. It's a PvP legend. Sullon Zek was a Lord among servers, so powerful that no ruleset could bind those within. So twisted was it's power that it took the powerful Play Nice Policy and completely destroyed it. No more would anyone be bound by the whims of petty men! Only the strongest would survive, those willing to do anything to seize the power they desired.

Many came to test themselves, to build a new world and control a great empire!

Where is your mighty Sullon Zek now? Abandoned by all who came, gone back to Tallon, to Rallos, to Vallon, to the CareBear servers whence they came.

They were to be the saviors of PvP, but they became it's murderers. Ironic. They thought they wanted no rules, but they could not live without them.

[Danth]

...

Your namesake lost his ship, his treasure, and his life to an Atlantic gale because he wanted to go visit his girlfriend. That's tragic enough, albeit the folks he robbed might've regarded it as just desserts.

Danth

[Thomacles]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Sullon Zek the Empty?

I thought not. It's not a story the Care Bears would tell you. It's a PvP legend. Sullon Zek was a Lord among servers, so powerful that no ruleset could bind those within. So twisted was it's power that it took the powerful Play Nice Policy and completely destroyed it. No more would anyone be bound by the whims of petty men! Only the strongest would survive, those willing to do anything to seize the power they desired.

Many came to test themselves, to build a new world and control a great empire!

Where is your mighty Sullon Zek now? Abandoned by all who came, gone back to Tallon, to Rallos, to Vallon, to the CareBear servers whence they came.

They were to be the saviors of PvP, but they became it's murderers. Ironic. They thought they wanted no rules, but they could not live without them.

ROTF!! Dude!!!

That was epic!! While reading that I could hear it in Sean Connery's voice with dramatic orchestral music and kettle drums playing in the background. Thanx so very much for a good laugh, I needed it today!:)

[Bardp1999]

ROTF!! Dude!!!

That was epic!! While reading that I could hear it in Sean Connery's voice with dramatic orchestral music and kettle drums playing in the background. Thanx so very much for a good laugh, I needed it today!:)

This legitimately triggered me

[kaev]

I'd say I'm sorry you won't be allowed to kill-steal or generally act like a sociopath whenever you feel like it and without repercussion, but that'd be a lie. I'm not sorry at all.

Danth

I am finding great joy in the thought of his unhappiness myself. I only wish I could watch him whining about the unfairness of it all irl.

[Jimjam]

Sullon zek wasn't no rules (for long).

It had anti bard rules.

[BlackBellamy]

It had anti bard rules.

All hail the server breaker!

https://i.imgur.com/umXXAPS.jpg

[Canelek]

Hah! I remember the Fansy story. It was a funny read... homeboy left a trail of triggered PVPers for sure.

[Jibartik]

All hail the server breaker!

https://i.imgur.com/umXXAPS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Wn7NTPV.png

[brokenpromise]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Sullon Zek the Empty?

I thought not. It's not a story the Care Bears would tell you. It's a PvP legend. Sullon Zek was a Lord among servers, so powerful that no ruleset could bind those within. So twisted was it's power that it took the powerful Play Nice Policy and completely destroyed it. No more would anyone be bound by the whims of petty men! Only the strongest would survive, those willing to do anything to seize the power they desired.

Many came to test themselves, to build a new world and control a great empire!

Where is your mighty Sullon Zek now? Abandoned by all who came, gone back to Tallon, to Rallos, to Vallon, to the CareBear servers whence they came.

They were to be the saviors of PvP, but they became it's murderers. Ironic. They thought they wanted no rules, but they could not live without them.

This guys a pro gamer

[brokenpromise]

This legitimately triggered me

When I read what he said, I thought it was a very solid troll. "I read it in sean Connerys voice". Brilliant troll

[DMN]

I knew there was something strange when people were talking about this "play nice" stuff being a thing. And I'm like, wtf? It was pretty much the wild west. But fear not, sheeple, it didn't go on wantonly, as many servers started to have the bigger guilds create blacklists which strongly curtailed these sorts of behavior.

[Cecil]

I knew there was something strange when people were talking about this "play nice" stuff being a thing. And I'm like, wtf? It was pretty much the wild west. But fear not, sheeple, it didn't go on wantonly, as many servers started to have the bigger guilds create blacklists which strongly curtailed these sorts of behavior.

Don’t call people “sheeple”. It’s akin to calling transsexuals freaks. Be respectful!

[DMN]

Don’t call people “sheeple”. It’s akin to calling transsexuals freaks. Be respectful!

How dare you refer to sheeple as people.

[Cecily]

If you keep that gosh darned malarkey up, Ill be very cross with you.

[derpcake2]

Don’t call people “sheeple”. It’s akin to calling transsexuals freaks. Be respectful!

Why are you in R&F if you are so easily butthurt?

Fuck right back out.

[Cecil]

Why are you in R&F if you are so easily butthurt?

Fuck right back out.

I’m not so easily “butthurt”. I don’t see a problem with expecting a minimum level of respect for other people.

[Cecil]

Why are you in R&F if you are so easily butthurt?

Fuck right back out.

And... I’m actually “butthurt” quite often... if you catch my drift. But very rarely by what people say in R&F.

[loramin]

And... I’m actually “butthurt” quite often... if you catch my drift. But very rarely by what people say in R&F.

I know you think you're super clever with this forum persona and not-so-subtle transphobia, but FWIW I think you're just a sad lonely person who likes to mock people who are different because you have some personal problems.

[Tyronius of Midnight]

This is sickening. You best hope you never cross paths with me.

[cd288]

Kind of late to the party here, but figured I'd throw in my two cents as someone who was part of the CSR team back in the day in EQ. OP makes a lot of statements about how the whole KSing and "competition" dynamic was "sanctioned" by the devs and was intended by the devs to be how EQ played. He also mentions how camps were never intended to be a thing and people were expected to just run around all over.

He is correct that camps were never meant to be a thing, because the devs didn't predict that's how players would handle the game. However, that doesn't mean that the game was intended to be a free-for-all kill stealing fest.

If the devs had predicted the way people would play the game, I can tell you for 100% fact that the PnP would have been in the game at launch. There were countless conversations at the time about the state of different servers and the kill stealing free-for-all issues that were arising. GMs across all servers were consulted about what they were seeing and how they had handled various different types of scenarios. This is a big part of how the PnP was created. This whole "well you could kill steal and camp steal, etc. at launch so you should be able to do that on P99" is a completely nonsensical argument. It was never actually intended to play that way and when the devs and CSR realized how abusive online gamers could be, they acted to change the rules to prevent that. A PnP would have been in place at launch if we had known how people would behave.

I'll see if I can find any old convos about it from back in the day. I think I may have sent some to my old AOL email address.

[Horza]

I know you think you're super clever with this forum persona and not-so-subtle transphobia, but FWIW I think you're just a sad lonely person who likes to mock people who are different because you have some personal problems.

[Bardp1999]

I know you think you're super clever with this forum persona and not-so-subtle transphobia, but FWIW I think you're just a sad lonely person who likes to mock people who are different because you have some personal problems.

Cecily is insufferable so I applaud anyone griefing her, otherwise, I agree with your post.

[Cecily]

Cecily is insufferable so I applaud anyone griefing her, otherwise, I agree with your post.

Speaking of insufferable, why don't you write us another fanfic about Wutang.

[Wonkie]

Cecil isn't Cecily's alt?

[Cecily]

I honestly can't tell the difference.

[Wonkie]

I honestly can't tell the difference.

fool does get fooled again :)

[aaezil]

Tranny vs stay at home son / incel war continue

[Mblake81]

her

GRIEF

https://i.imgur.com/MDPzgvy.gif

[Cecil]

Tranny vs stay at home son / incel war continue

What do incels have to do with trannies? Incels are included on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of hate groups. Trannies are not because we are peaceful people.

[Cecil]

GRIEF

https://i.imgur.com/MDPzgvy.gif

What are you talking about?

[BlackBellamy]

What do incels have to do with trannies? Incels are included on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of hate groups. Trannies are not because we are peaceful people.

Yes, in both cases (MTF, FTM) the testosterone level is lower than your typical hulking bruteling, so the propensity for physical violence is a lot lower. However, the infusion or existing estrogen levels make the person quite chatty and gossipy, which can lead to emotional violence, so there's that.

[Ashes]

I had forgotten about the institution of the play nice rules, thank you OP— 'all very well said. If there wasnt a bunch of fucking rules the GMs would all but cease to exist so you can't knock their whole hustle either theyre just trying to keep a job, idk why but thats a fact. no rules, no petitions, no GMs, no problem. simple logic there. however anybody feels about it and opinions on what people should or shouldnt do is irrelevant. at the same time the game is gonna be powerfarmed and permacamped by any neckbeard crew regardless of what rules are superimposed onto a pure experience like eq.

[Ashes]

Kind of late to the party here, but figured I'd throw in my two cents as someone who was part of the CSR team back in the day in EQ. OP makes a lot of statements about how the whole KSing and "competition" dynamic was "sanctioned" by the devs and was intended by the devs to be how EQ played. He also mentions how camps were never intended to be a thing and people were expected to just run around all over.

He is correct that camps were never meant to be a thing, because the devs didn't predict that's how players would handle the game. However, that doesn't mean that the game was intended to be a free-for-all kill stealing fest.

If the devs had predicted the way people would play the game, I can tell you for 100% fact that the PnP would have been in the game at launch. There were countless conversations at the time about the state of different servers and the kill stealing free-for-all issues that were arising. GMs across all servers were consulted about what they were seeing and how they had handled various different types of scenarios. This is a big part of how the PnP was created. This whole "well you could kill steal and camp steal, etc. at launch so you should be able to do that on P99" is a completely nonsensical argument. It was never actually intended to play that way and when the devs and CSR realized how abusive online gamers could be, they acted to change the rules to prevent that. A PnP would have been in place at launch if we had known how people would behave.

I'll see if I can find any old convos about it from back in the day. I think I may have sent some to my old AOL email address.

yeah well your team's lack of common sense despite all of the test servers was probably the only reason everquest became so popular. ever think about that? you people that like heaping on rules into multiplayer games that are supposed to be emergent open world experiences are the whole reason we'll never have another good MMO again.

[Kanuvan]

if you think bringing a warrior even without a penalty is better than bringing a real tank with snap aggro or another dps then you truly are the most idiotic community , warrior serve no purpose in the game right now until the pop is top heavy and only raiding, warriors are trash tier on green/teal

bard with 40% xp penalty > warrior for xp group

[Tethler]

If there wasnt a bunch of fucking rules the GMs would all but cease to exist so you can't knock their whole hustle either theyre just trying to keep a job

They are volunteers, it's not a job.

Also, why did you necro this trainwreck of a thread, jesus.