<Brexit>

[Viscere]

just curious

[Dugface]

New (non) euro raiding guild led by Rezzmon?

[Littul Jonn]

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!

[rezzie]

Britain never been stronger!

ahem

[Swish2]

We'll probably eventually get invaded by the forming EU Army that most EU nations want to stop but aren't allowed to.

[zwitterion]

The UK will join the US voluntarily as 4 or 5 new states.

...not sure if this img link will work
https://farkuserimg-850.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/b/bt/fark_bttLAD9Tuw7_-NG4YDxP_ZvgCU8.gif?AWSAccessKeyId=HBAYEKZHGUB4NAYQ BVSQ&Expires=1566792000&Signature=anbFWimv6MP05Ry1MAkptpYm36I%3D

[Cecily]

Make America Great Britain again.

[Wonkie]

global financial collapse :)

[Domo]

My english sucks, so I will try to make it short.

My forecast;

- There will be a "hard Brexit"
- Both, UK & EU lose a lot of money on this (UK most likely a bit more)
- The releationchip between Irland and Northen Irland will get worse and a new border between both countrys will be build.
- Scottland will start a referendum to leave the UK and join the EU
- Boris Johnson will start a "together we are stronger" campaign in hope that Scottland will stay in the UK (and fail)
- Scottland leaves the UK and the UK gets a new flag (without the Scottish blue)


I am not an expert, but its really possible that this shit will happen in the next 1-3 years.

Kind of sad.

[Jimjam]

Oh global recession is starting to happen anyway

As Bloomberg summed things up:

China reported the weakest growth in industrial output since 2002. Germany’s economy shrank as exports slumped, and euro-area production plunged the most in more than three years as the overall expansion cooled.

and


In response to Wednesday’s buffet of bad news, the alarm got a bit louder. Yields on 10-year Treasuries fell below those on two-year Treasuries, which basically means that the yield curve is now, officially, extra super-duper uber-inverted.

I believe Germany is recently one month away from recession.

I don't think people of the UK seem to care; the country has been out of recession for years but the workers don't see the benefit of it, still working extra hours. One person fills what previously was the roles of several (and at lower wage), continued government austerity to repay the bank bail out and so on.

All returns to and increases in profit have gone to investors. The recovery of the last recession has almost no trickle down and any increases to employment are through zero hour contracts where staff can't be guaranteed reliable work from week to week. Such variable hours of employment really screws up the ease of claiming work related government benefits.

So yea, we're approaching a new recession, globally.

[Patriam1066]

Japan and Korea are quietly tariffing each other. They are a massive proportion of the global technology supply chain. That + America & China locked in a trade war = were due for a major recession, regardless of whether Brexit is hard or soft

[aaezil]

Trump tarrifs gonna make all your electronics expensive ya trump tards good job guise

[feniin]

Dumb people just want to stick it to the foreigners, economy be damned.

[Jimjam]

Japan and Korea are quietly tariffing each other. They are a massive proportion of the global technology supply chain. That + America & China locked in a trade war = were due for a major recession, regardless of whether Brexit is hard or soft

Whether the pull out is hard or soft we know she fucked.

[Wonkie]

god forbid open a factory in the us

That's a good thing. Keep the waste and pollution in China and Mexico

[Swish2]

Imagine being in the UK and a lot of people are working for minimum wage, which is more like the maximum wage unless you've got skills/certificates.

Plenty of unskilled supermarket workers, taxi drivers with Google maps and 1000's waiting for a minimum wage part-time job to come their way.

Thanks to the EU of course and freedom of movement between 27+ countries (as well as the Africans, Afghanis, Syrians, Turks etc) school leavers have got to fight against the tide to get any kind of job on entering the workforce.

Then they wonder why people can't afford to have kids and start a family as rent prices (supply/demand), utility bills, local council taxes and other costs keep going up.

If you ever go into London and join the chorus of tourists asking "Where are all the British people?" - not London, we can't afford to be there...and that includes non-white Brits who have also moved away in every direction :p

[Horza]

Thanks for specifying that not all British people are white, you certainly aren't racist.

[Nuggie]

They have no regulations there on pollution and unfortunately we are still on the same planet. The ph of our oceans is falling and reefs are dying, by 2048 all phytoplankton will be dead and humans will die.

Sorry if you didnt get the email

You're not going to have to worry about that. The sky is going to fall and crush us all pretty soon.

[Patriam1066]

There is a very good special on netflix called american factory,

please watch friends

Thanks Obama

[Patriam1066]

They have no regulations there on pollution and unfortunately we are still on the same planet. The ph of our oceans is falling and reefs are dying, by 2048 all phytoplankton will be dead and humans will die.

Sorry if you didnt get the email

Honestly, America, the EU, Russia, and China should dirtnap all non-Iranian melanin to save the rest of us from this future. Too many uggos

[Wonkie]

Thanks Obama

It wasn't very good. The Chinese fella had fucked up frog lips. Obama is on board with this New Economy shit so fuck him too.

[Swish2]

Thanks for specifying that not all British people are white, you certainly aren't racist.

Sorry snowflake, when 1 in 4 Americans has a passport I have to assume not many have visited the UK so just relaying something that a lot of tourists say when they come to London.

There was plenty of other information in that post, but well done for nailing me on the part you were offended by. I have friends of all ethnicities by the way, but assume away.

Boris Johnson hasn't said the words "no deal" in a while apparently which has the Brexit voters worried.

[Horza]

Thanks for specifying that you have friends of all ethnicities.

[Patriam1066]

Swish actually had a completely normal and relevant political point there bud. I bet plenty of people in Britain feel that way and are not racist

Horza, you’re insufferable. You will never please a woman with such apparent bitterness radiating from your being. Seek Christ

[Patriam1066]

It wasn't very good. The Chinese fella had fucked up frog lips. Obama is on board with this New Economy shit so fuck him too.

What’s the alternative? Populism? Haven’t we learned our lesson Pokesan?

(All Asians that aren’t Big Jeff look that way dude. Close the borders)

[Horza]

Completely normal and relevant, did I mention I have a black friend?

[Wonkie]

Completely normal and relevant, did I mention I have a black friend?

Not anymore you don't. They're retconning Obama's citizenship by policy. Lol

[Patriam1066]

Did Boris Johnson shut down the UK’s parliament to close debate on (((brexit)))? Swish or someone else who is Anglo-Saxon please explain

[Swish2]

Basically the Prime Minister is entitled to suspend Parliament in order to get important business done if required. It's often seen as undemocratic because the elected MPs aren't able to comment/object/etc on anything.

However, in this case its been done because of MPs willfully ignoring the fact that the majority of the electorate voted for Brexit and there's usurper MPs trying to block it from happening. The easy option is what he's just done. The Queen has given the nod, so that's that.

What you have now is "remain" voters (or people who didn't vote but would have voted to remain in the EU) crying that it's undemocratic.... the double standards :rolleyes: , respect democracy and the referendum results. We should have been gone in 2016, it's time to get it done <3

The EU is now playing the victim card, when they have ordered us to pay 39 billion GBP and won't budge on the shit "deal" they've given us...and are threatening us with trade restrictions etc. Funny shit.

[Remeygi]

<Europa> will split up into

<Europa-Brits> and <Celts>?

[Jimjam]

"I love democracy, I love parliamentary sovereignty, which is why I must suspend it"

Straight from the Palpatine playbook, Mr. Johnson!

[Swish2]

"I love democracy, I love parliamentary sovereignty, which is why I must suspend it"

Straight from the Palpatine playbook, Mr. Johnson!

He's siding with the 17.4 million Brexit voters, not the MPs trying to overturn the result of a democratic referendum. If it wasn't for those MPs, it'd be business as usual.

[Jimjam]

It's true, Brexit was voted for. I remember being promised 'Norway plus', 'Swizterland plus' or 'Canada plus'. A no deal Brexit was assuredly not on the cards.

Unfortunately, as you say, a complete lack of cooperation at every step of the way is painting Britain into the No Deal corner if Britain is to ever achieve Brexit. There is no chance for 'some thing plus' deals, nor even 'something minus'. Just cut and run.

I truely hope there have been backroom negotiations happening with non EU countries (even though the EU 'forbids' it).

[Jimjam]

Oh another text based prequel meme:

Obi Wan (Leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbin to Anakin (PM Boris Johnson):
You were meant to restore sovereignty to parliament, not destroy it!

[Wonkie]

The Queen has given the nod, so that's that.


Can she say no?

[Patriam1066]

Brexit and TRUMP were bad ideas. This Bolsonaro gentleman is quite the ass hole as well

We must turn to Christ. Our politicians have failed us on both sides, and only by opening the Seventh Seal can we make Rome Great Again!

[Jimjam]

Can she say no?

She is to follow the advice of her ministers. However parliament are permitted to write her a 'humble appeal', but as she already said yes to prorogue I don't suspect she'd renege on her word.

[Wonkie]

She is to follow the advice of her ministers. However parliament are permitted to write her a 'humble appeal', but as she already said yes to prorogue I don't suspect she'd renege on her word.

You're cute :o

[Jimjam]

You're cute :o

Is there even such a thing as a rhetorical question?

[Swish2]

Brexit and TRUMP were bad ideas.

Both were voted on, they weren't "ideas".

If you look at the makeup of the European Union these days, its about as undemocratic as it can be. It's leaders aren't elected by the people of Europe, they want an EU military, they have an EU "anthem"... and if you take a look at some of their failed policies/outlooks, particularly at what has happened economically to Greece, no shits were given that they effectively bankrupted the country.

Add in the failed "freedom of movement" laws, which are good in theory but has unofficially ended up with "if you get into Europe illegally, you're free to move where you like"... its not been good economically, socially or culturally.

The latest in the news has been that the French President has threatened to stop the use of the channel tunnel if Boris Johnson shuts down Parliament to force Brexit (the democratic vote of the people) through.

If only France was able to stop the Germans in WW2... :rolleyes:

[Patriam1066]

Voted on by dying countries full of 3rd worlders and opioid addicts. Time for Augustus

:)

[Swish2]

...and the people voted for a positive change in terms of Brexit. The majority is there, democracy happened. It should have been forced through in under 6 months in 2016.

[Tethler]

Add in the failed "freedom of movement" laws, which are good in theory but has unofficially ended up with "if you get into Europe illegally, you're free to move where you like"... its not been good economically, socially or culturally.



I recently went to Holland, Belgium, and Germany for a 1-week vacation. Not having to check about each country for visa requirements or show my passport constantly at train stations was quite convenient, so there's that.

[Thrombosis]

Remoaners: Stop the coup!
Govt: OK, we'll have a general election.
Remoaners: We didn't mean now...

Makes me so angry how our parliament has deliberately made this process so difficult.

[Domo]

... and if you take a look at some of their failed policies/outlooks, particularly at what has happened economically to Greece, no shits were given that they effectively bankrupted the country.


As far I know Greece fucked it up all alone and wanted help from the EU, and the EU said it will help Greece if they follow some rules.
Looks like it worked. Greece is stable and growing again.

(sorry about my english)

[Mblake81]

I recently went to Holland, Belgium, and Germany for a 1-week vacation. Not having to check about each country for visa requirements or show my passport constantly at train stations was quite convenient, so there's that.

Convenience has a price all its own.

The USA can't seem to move because it has grown fatter on asian work, meanwhile California has a homeless village.

That's all I will say. It's not my land, country, culture or people over there in Euro.

[Wonkie]

Remoaners: Stop the coup!
Govt: OK, we'll have a general election.
Remoaners: We didn't mean now...

Makes me so angry how our parliament has deliberately made this process so difficult.

it is kinda unfair they won't support an election. i guess they figure an economic meltdown is the worser option than being unfair.

[Jimjam]

Remoaners: Stop the coup!
Govt: OK, we'll have a general election.
Remoaners: We didn't mean now...

Makes me so angry how our parliament has deliberately made this process so difficult.

Honestly, I think the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbin, simply doesn't want to be PM. Back when former PM May called a general election he vould have just built his campaign around "I've long been a Eurosceptic so you can trust me to implement Leave, but at the same time I am a labour rep so you can also trust me to maintain the workforce's rights and protect them from the predatory corporations that a conservative Brexit would make them vulnerable to."

He would have picked up many of the conservative leave votes (May voted remain; I have no idea why she volunteered for leadership of the Conservative party other than no one else even stood. Really BoJo should have manned up and stood for leadership on 24th June 2016). He would have stopped the huge number of lavour votes that defected because Labour didn't have a clear mandate on Brexit during that election. He would have even picked up some remain voters under the assurance of fall out from Brexit being mitigated (it's nice being able to opt out of 42+ hour working weeks, etc).

That snap election back then was JC's for the taking if he actually stood up for his past rhetoric.

Now he's showed himself up again, trying to paint BoJo as a tyrant, but when offered the election JC turns it down by moving the goalposts. I understand why JC turned it down, the election was a trap to force through a potentially devestating Brexit (instead of a clean, conciliatory leave) for the sake of deadlines (and maintaining huge tax dodging schemes employed by much of the current government and sponsors). The damage is now done to JC's reputation (and it has taken years of bogus allegations against him for anything to stick).

These two instances show to me JC doesn't want PM.

Infighting in the Labour party (and attacks from Conservative party/media) has tried for years to bring JC down, but in the end JC is going to crucify himself.

[Jimjam]

it is kinda unfair they won't support an election. i guess they figure an economic meltdown is the worser option than being unfair.

Shitting the bed then making someone else take responsibility for it is classic Torrie playbook (ref 'Calling a Referendum then Stepping down from PM', Pigfucker, 2016)

[Thrombosis]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/mps-checked-with-eu-chiefs-over-brexit-delay-before-passing-bill

This is what we are reduced to, some our wonderful MPs, probably former ministers too, openly colluding with EU leaders completely undermining our own negotiators. We used to have people hung, drawn and quartered for that!

[Horza]

Boris Johnson ‘could face prison time’ if he breaks law in pursuit of no-deal Brexit. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-boris-johnson-prison-no-deal-eu-break-law-a9095761.html)

The prime minister will be in “contempt of court” and will face the same punishment as any other citizen, Lord MacDonald, the former director of public prosecutions, warned.

[Jimjam]

I am on the remain face of the sphere, but i kind of agree that we need to be breaking laws. Not UK law though. We should have broken the EU's rule that we can't negotiate trades while still in the EU.

Clearly that rule was written to ensure no member states got preferential treatment. It was not written under the perspective of a country planning to exit. As such we should have been able to prospectively negotiate looking forward to a post brexit Britain as long as the effects of those negotiations only came into being after Britain left the EU. It was forbidding the UK from prospectively seeking trade deals in advance of Brexit which gave the threat of 'No Deal' the power to paralyse the entire Brexit negotiations.

The rule against Britain being able to plan for Brexit was essentially the EU putting the No Deal gun in Britains hands and forcing Britain to point said gun at herself. This mobe actually made me wake up and understand the Eurosceptic point of view more sympathetically.

[Horza]

Boris Johnson forced into retreat after threatening to break the law to deliver Brexit. (https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-retreats-threatening-to-break-law-to-force-brexit-2019-9)

In private conversations with colleagues, Johnson has assured senior colleagues that he will "abide by the law," according to the Times. Downing Street's initial threats simply to break the law and refuse to seek an extension now appear to have vanished, with senior cabinet ministers including Robert Buckland, the justice secretary, and Nicky Morgan, the culture secretary, thought to be ready to resign if Johnson did refuse to uphold the rule of law.

[tsuchang]

Maybe, they want Britten to be "classic"

[Horza]

Britten the composer?

[Horza]

EU officials reject Boris Johnson claim of 'huge progress' in Brexit talks. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/15/eu-officials-reject-boris-johnson-claim-huge-progress-brexit-talks)

Johnson told the Mail on Sunday there were “real signs of movement” in Berlin, Paris and Dublin on getting rid of the backstop, the persistent stumbling block to a Brexit agreement. But EU officials involved in talks with Johnson’s envoy, David Frost, have dismissed his upbeat account.

[Thrombosis]

EU official calls for a European Empire at LibDem conference, applauded. (https://order-order.com/2019/09/14/lib-dems-applaud-call-eu-become-empire/)

At least he's being honest I suppose, Nick Clegg, a previous LibDem leader (now Facebook exec) told us all in 2016 that an EU Army was 'a dangerous fantasy'.

[feniin]

Oh, I totally believe that source.

[Horza]

EU official calls for a European Empire (https://order-order.com/2019/09/14/lib-dems-applaud-call-eu-become-empire/)

Like in the Front Mission video games?

[Thrombosis]

Oh, I totally believe that source.

Why not watch the video and decide for yourself what he was saying? Did remainers know they were voting for this?

[Domo]

Scotland move to join EU has to be 'seriously considered', says Van Rompuy (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17904152.scotland-move-join-eu-seriously-considered-says-van-rompuy/)

[Thrombosis]

Scotland move to join EU has to be 'seriously considered', says Van Rompuy (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17904152.scotland-move-join-eu-seriously-considered-says-van-rompuy/)

Scotland voted in 2014 to remain a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I know that's not the EU way though, to respect the result of a democratic election - you have to vote again and again until the people vote the right way.

Btw, not many people have considered this given the general preoccupation with Brexit for the last few years, but Brexit makes the case for Scottish (non-)Independence much, much weaker.

[Zeboim]

Considering that was before Brexit was even a thing, and Scotland voted Remain by 10%, I don't think that's a particularly unreasonable position for them to take.

[Horza]

Brexit makes the case for Scottish (non-)Independence much, much weaker.

According to what mental gymnastics?

[Thrombosis]

Considering that was before Brexit was even a thing, and Scotland voted Remain by 10%, I don't think that's a particularly unreasonable position for them to take.

It was over 40 years before the people got to vote again on the UK's participation in what was the EEC, is now the EU. How much changed in that time? When we joined the EEC in 1973 there was no European parliament, there was no single market, there was no European Court of Injustice, there was no Freedom of Movement. Did we get a vote on any of these major changes to our country? Is it only the things that les bien pensents agree with that we get to vote again and again for? Sorry, but I think Scotland had a very good case for independence back in 2014 and the UK would certainly have treated them a good deal better than the EU are behaving today, but you just can't keep having referendums on the same thing when you don't get the result you don't want.

Fun fact: more people voted for Brexit in Scotland than voted for the only pro-Independence political party in 2017.

[Horza]

Most voters believe government should allow Scotland and Northern Ireland to decide on UK membership after Brexit, poll finds. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-scotland-independence-northern-ireland-border-poll-a9105251.html)

[Thrombosis]

According to what mental gymnastics?

Most Scottish exports go to England at the moment. How would Scottish exporters cope with an EU-imposed hard border along Hadrian's wall*? The issue of Scotland's currency still isn't resolved - would the EU require them to join the Euro?

*Yes, I'm aware that there's large areas of England north of Hadrian's wall, it's a figure of speech.

[Horza]

I'm sure those numbers will change slightly after the English economy collapses post-Brexit, and they will probably adopt the Euro eventually.

[Domo]

Johnson humiliated by Luxembourg PM at 'empty chair' press conference (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/16/johnson-humiliated-by-luxembourg-pm-at-empty-chair-press-conference)

[Zeboim]

It was over 40 years before the people got to vote again on the UK's participation in what was the EEC, is now the EU. How much changed in that time? When we joined the EEC in 1973 there was no European parliament, there was no single market, there was no European Court of Injustice, there was no Freedom of Movement. Did we get a vote on any of these major changes to our country? Is it only the things that les bien pensents agree with that we get to vote again and again for? Sorry, but I think Scotland had a very good case for independence back in 2014 and the UK would certainly have treated them a good deal better than the EU are behaving today, but you just can't keep having referendums on the same thing when you don't get the result you don't want.

Fun fact: more people voted for Brexit in Scotland than voted for the only pro-Independence political party in 2017.

I don't see any reason why they can't have referendums as frequently as there is actual public opinion on the matter to support it. Just because they never called for one in those 40 years doesn't mean 40 years has any reason to be the baseline on how frequently people get a voice in their self determination. And besides - I think 5 years is ample time for reexamination, especially in the context of the gravity of what has happened during it.

Also, thank you for the irrelevant fun fact. Here's another one that actually matters: More Scots voted for Remain than Brexit.

The configuration (In EU)+(Not in UK)+(UK in EU) is no longer possible. (In EU)+(In UK)+(UK in EU) was removed from them against their personal votes. It follows that it's fully logical for a vote on the configuration of (In EU)+(Not in UK)+(UK not in EU) to be a thing that happens.

[Domo]

I agree with Zeboim.

I mean if you buy (in Europe at laest) a TV for example, but notice later at home that it dosent fit to your furniture, you have the right to give it back or change it for a diffrent TV. So why shouldn`t people get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th vote?
(My english sucks, but I hope you understand my example)

[Thrombosis]

Also, thank you for the irrelevant fun fact. Here's another one that actually matters: More Scots voted for Remain than Brexit.

Actually the only fact that matters in this regard is 17.4 million Leave, 16.1 million remain.

[Thrombosis]

'Financially negligent' convict confirmed by European parliament to run European Central Bank. (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-09-17/lagarde-wins-eu-lawmakers-approval-to-lead-ecb)

[Patriam1066]

I agree with Zeboim.

I mean if you buy (in Europe at laest) a TV for example, but notice later at home that it dosent fit to your furniture, you have the right to give it back or change it for a diffrent TV. So why shouldn`t people get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th vote?
(My english sucks, but I hope you understand my example)

If you didn’t measure beforehand, you should probably have that TV dropped on your head for the good of the species. I know that isn’t really the intent of your analogy, but in that very narrow case I do believe capital punishment is in order. As for Brexit, yep, with the prospect of a no deal future, the UK should hold another referendum

[Horza]

Boris Johnson 'surprised' by level of Irish border checks. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/boris-johnson-surprised-by-level-of-irish-border-checks-brexit)

Boris Johnson expressed surprise to his advisers during lunch with Jean-Claude Juncker as he was informed about the scale of checks still needed on the island of Ireland under his alternative plan for the Irish border.

During talks with Juncker and the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, the prime minister was shown in detail how allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock, known as sanitary and phytosanitary measures, would still fail to avoid checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.

[Teppler]

Whenever i hear about whats happening with Brexit I get very sad. I don't think I would able to take living there. This disrespect to a people's sovereign vote is disturbing. How can anyone around there have any trust in their democracy after what they've seen the last couple years?

[Teppler]

I agree with Zeboim.

I mean if you buy (in Europe at laest) a TV for example, but notice later at home that it dosent fit to your furniture, you have the right to give it back or change it for a diffrent TV. So why shouldn`t people get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th vote?
(My english sucks, but I hope you understand my example)

Because having a vote 'until those damned peasants get the vote right' eliminates the purpose of having a vote in the first place.

[tsuchang]

Socialists mess up almost everything they try to fix.

[Teppler]

This begs the question, why was this even allowed to be a vote in the first place? If the elites behind the UK have no intention of following through on what was voted, as they are clearly showing, what was even the purpose of having a vote? The illusion of democracy?

[Patriam1066]

This begs the question, why was this even allowed to be a vote in the first place? If the elites behind the UK have no intention of following through on what was voted, as they are clearly showing, what was even the purpose of having a vote? The illusion of democracy?

Because David Cameron never imagined Britain had as many brain dead opioid addict rednecks as America. He was wrong

[Teppler]

Because David Cameron never imagined Britain had as many brain dead opioid addict rednecks as America. He was wrong

So you are saying, yes, the vote was offered in bad faith.

[Wonkie]

So you are saying, yes, the vote was offered in bad faith.

You gotta let the child touch the stove themselves if you want to lesson to stick

[Teppler]

Yeah they are really letting the consequences of voting Brexit burn.

[Thrombosis]

This begs the question, why was this even allowed to be a vote in the first place? If the elites behind the UK have no intention of following through on what was voted, as they are clearly showing, what was even the purpose of having a vote? The illusion of democracy?

Prime Minister David Cameron promised a referendum on the EU in the 2015 general election campaign, he didn't think he'd win - he thought he'd end up with another Con-LibDem coalition and so could get rid of the referendum commitment during the coalition negoatiations. As it happened, he did win an outright majority and so it would have been difficult for him to back out of that promise.

Also, referendums are quite rare in UK politics, but since 2010 Cameron had given us two; on changing the voting system to AV and on Scottish independence. Cameron won them both, so probably thought that he could win the third one and secure his legacy as the PM who put the European issue to bed once and for all.

[Jimjam]

This begs the question, why was this even allowed to be a vote in the first place? If the elites behind the UK have no intention of following through on what was voted, as they are clearly showing, what was even the purpose of having a vote? The illusion of democracy?

Point of contention, i think it is the elite that wants Brexit; they are desparate to leave the EU before 31 December before new tax laws come in that will prevent opaque channeling asset management through foreign lands like the caiman islands. They want to dodge a tax clampdown that will cost them many billions.

The next problem is an existing (Good Friday) agreement between two EU members -Republic of Ireland and Great Britain - prevents a clean brexit; The UK and RoI have agreed there will always be a frictionless border between Ireland (RoI) and Northern Ireland (UK). The problem is when UK Brexits there will have to be a border between EU and UK, ie between ROI and UK, in violation of the Good Friday Agreement. Until this conflict is resolved i don't think there can even be a legal brexit. Hence the 'backstop' negotiations.

Thirdly, under the referendum all leavers campaigned under the idea of having deals with the EU similar to Canada, Norway, Switzerland etc. everyone campaigning insisted we would leave with a good deal and not no deal. The official line of Labour (leader of the opposition to the government) insist on leaving with a deal... The problem is they won't accept the deal that was negotiated.

So yes, the referendum was given for the choice of denocracy, the result got hijacked by tax avoiding aristrocrats, no deal is going to renege an agreement that previously ended a huge amount of fratricide in ireland (and terroism in the uk) and those politicians who want a 'best deal for the country' deal can't agree on the details.

What we need is a referendum 'the negotiated deal as it stands', 'maintain status quo' or 'no deal' (9/11 option).

[Teppler]

If the elites in UK want brexit and the people voted for it, who do you perceive is stopping it from happening? Sounds like you’re in a spin tbqh. The idea of having more votes that ultimately undo brexot looks like an absolute disaster from a foreign POV, like you guys are running a complete and utter clown show of a democracy. UK politicians simply have to get brexit through or their democracy is fraudulent. The people have to have faith in the government and if votes don’t mean anything anymore, the social compact is shown to be breaking down.

[Teppler]

Breaking an “insistence” isn’t a valid excuse to completely and utterly destroy the idea of your democracy either. That’s ludicrous.

A flaky insistence that never was a guarantee vs hundreds of years of a compact agreement between people/government institution built up

Which is stronger and should be protected?

[Thrombosis]

What we need is a referendum 'the negotiated deal as it stands', 'maintain status quo' or 'no deal' (9/11 option).

Maintaining the status quo (aka the remain option rejected by the voters in the last referendum) is not an option. Even the EU is now admitting that Brexiteers were right all along and they're planning further and further integration towards the EU empire. Make no mistake, there will be an EU Army, Turkey will join the EU, and the EU will privatise the NHS.

Also - three way referendums aren't a good way of resolving things unless you use the AV system, which we're not used to in the UK.

[Teppler]

So yes, the referendum was given for the choice of denocracy, the result got hijacked by tax avoiding aristrocrats,

It just makes me very angry to see this line of logic because i know exactly where it comes from. Elite's are angry that the common people hijacked the government and voted to take it in a direction that they don't want.

You most likely have a very small group of aristocrats that benefit from Brexit vs the much larger group of UK elites that are weaponizing a propaganda campaign against Brexit now.

Really when it comes to any vote and any outcome, anyone can make the argument "the aristocrats hijacked". That line is meaningless and it makes me angry to hear it. In fact, just hearing someone weaponize it makes me believe the exact opposite is true.

I promise you, there's much more room for elite cronyism within the EU than outside. The EU is the giant club of elites that are fucking their countries for a little more wealth.

[Patriam1066]

Point of contention, i think it is the elite that wants Brexit; they are desparate to leave the EU before 31 December before new tax laws come in that will prevent opaque channeling asset management through foreign lands like the caiman islands. They want to dodge a tax clampdown that will cost them many billions.

The next problem is an existing (Good Friday) agreement between two EU members -Republic of Ireland and Great Britain - prevents a clean brexit; The UK and RoI have agreed there will always be a frictionless border between Ireland (RoI) and Northern Ireland (UK). The problem is when UK Brexits there will have to be a border between EU and UK, ie between ROI and UK, in violation of the Good Friday Agreement. Until this conflict is resolved i don't think there can even be a legal brexit. Hence the 'backstop' negotiations.

Thirdly, under the referendum all leavers campaigned under the idea of having deals with the EU similar to Canada, Norway, Switzerland etc. everyone campaigning insisted we would leave with a good deal and not no deal. The official line of Labour (leader of the opposition to the government) insist on leaving with a deal... The problem is they won't accept the deal that was negotiated.

So yes, the referendum was given for the choice of denocracy, the result got hijacked by tax avoiding aristrocrats, no deal is going to renege an agreement that previously ended a huge amount of fratricide in ireland (and terroism in the uk) and those politicians who want a 'best deal for the country' deal can't agree on the details.

What we need is a referendum 'the negotiated deal as it stands', 'maintain status quo' or 'no deal' (9/11 option).

Drone the Papists. Orange order 4lyfe

[Jimjam]

If the elites in UK want brexit and the people voted for it, who do you perceive is stopping it from happening? Sounds like you’re in a spin tbqh. The idea of having more votes that ultimately undo brexot looks like an absolute disaster from a foreign POV, like you guys are running a complete and utter clown show of a democracy. UK politicians simply have to get brexit through or their democracy is fraudulent. The people have to have faith in the government and if votes don’t mean anything anymore, the social compact is shown to be breaking down.

Please reread my post as this is literally the question i answered.

If you want TLDR: tax haven abusers want brexit to be done by christmas regardless of national damage. Representives of the people want a responsible brexit that won't strip away workers or human rights, food standards etc nor cause war with Ireland.

[Horza]

Trying to reason with Teppler?

You're going to make him angry, and you wouldn't like him when he's angry.

[Thrombosis]

Please reread my post as this is literally the question i answered.

If you want TLDR: tax haven abusers want brexit to be done by christmas regardless of national damage. Representives of the people want a responsible brexit that won't strip away workers or human rights, food standards etc nor cause war with Ireland.

It's funny that these so-called representatives of the people claim to be so concerned about worker's rights, but where were they when the EU empire expanded eastwards bringing with it a huge supply of labour for whom UK wages were way above what they could expect in their own country. It's no coincidence that wages only started rising above the rate of inflation after the Brexit vote when EU migration dropped.

Human rights aren't changing - we're still signed up to the ECHR which has nothing to do with the EU.

On food standards the EU hardly has room to gloat here - in the UK thanks to EU food laws we've had horse meat sold as beef in UK supermarkets, and rotten chicken imported from Poland. At least if we control our own food standards we can actually hold our own government to account for these sort of failures. Did any EU official resign over the above two scandals? Were they even scrutinised in any way?

The UK is far from perfect on enabling tax avoidance, but the EU is no better. Consider that the infamous Double-Dutch and Double-Irish tax avoidance schemes, that the mega corps exploited with glee, were both permitted under EU rules. Not sure where this theory about 'aristocrats' wanting Brexit comes from. Who exactly do you mean by the aristocrats anyway? As far as I can see they don't have much power at all these days and half of them are broke anyway.

[Wonkie]

Democracy is always fraudulent. That's what makes it beautiful ��

[Patriam1066]

Britain needs to take back Ireland and probably India

[Teppler]

Please reread my post as this is literally the question i answered.

If you want TLDR: tax haven abusers want brexit to be done by christmas regardless of national damage. Representives of the people want a responsible brexit that won't strip away workers or human rights, food standards etc nor cause war with Ireland.

"hijacked by tax avoiding aristrocrats"

How could you be so stupid to shill this line? That line describes every vote that has ever existed. Don't like the way a vote turned out- "aristocrats hijacked it!".

If a body of aristocrats have significant political power and the public voted for brexit, who is holding it up exactly? You're in a spin, dummy.

When you get billion dollar funded propaganda trying to explain to brexit is hijacked by tax avoiding aristocrats try to read between the lines at an adult level. Who do you think is sending this message? A bunch of poor people without the funds? Anti Brexit billionaires are trying to keep their gravy train running. They've successfully framed a grass roots democratic vote by the people as a "hijack by tax avoiding elite aristrocrats". It makes me absolutely sick to see you do their bidding here on this forum.

[Teppler]

Brexit was one of the real feel good grass root wins of the last few years.

It makes no one else sick to see how badly the common person gets their movements astroturfed once they gain even the slightest bit of traction?

Like, I couldn't think about a bigger example of a legit movement by the people, than common brits believing in independence. To see billion dollar elites successfully frame it as an endeavor by "tax avoiding aristocrats" when they didn't get what they want is just plain sad and black pilling.

I would get over it if these were just salt tears while Brexit was still happening but that's not the case. These elites have fucked Brexit sideways and I really don't see it happening longer term based on all the fuckery I've seen so far. Democracy is done there.

Why try anything? It just gets astroturfed by the billion dollar establishment every time.

[Horza]

Do I really want to ask what black pilling is?

[Teppler]

Despair. Accepting that there's nothing anyone can do and we're fucked.

[Horza]

Considering that Boris Johnson represents another set of billion dollar elites, I can't imagine that any of this will end up benefiting common Brits.

[Teppler]

Considering that Boris Johnson represents another set of billion dollar elites, I can't imagine that any of this will end up benefiting common Brits.

How about give the common people what they fucking voted on and quit the propaganda spinning from one billion dollar elite about what the billion dollar elites are trying to do and vice versa.

I'm sick, upset and out of my mind on this topic already and I've only been discussing it like 30 mins. I'm going to go insane on this. I don't even live in Europe. I don't know how anyone there does it. I feel like I would be on the streets screaming.

[Horza]

Of course its incel shit.

Black pill - It is basically a fatalistic version of the red pill with the ideas of biological determinism and hopelessness at its core. The idea surrounding it is that the PUA game is a scam and that bad boys do not attract females; instead, the most important factor is looks and physical traits. Taking the "black pill" is synonymous with coming to the realization that those who lack such traits will never be attractive to females, regardless of PUA techniques used, and should just give up. (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manosphere_glossary#Black_pill)

[Horza]

Bad boy leftists attract all the females.

[PieOats]

Britain needs to take back Ireland and probably India

[Wonkie]

What the fuck is a "rational wiki"

Bleeding leftist propaganda

:)

[Horza]

They can't not understand the sexual implications of asking someone to take the black pill.

[Teppler]

Bad boy leftists attract all the females.

https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/republicans-enjoy-a-better-sex-life-than-liberals/

Nobody likes a male leftist, not even other leftists. You can’t be a bad boy when you’re doing the bidding of the billion dollar establishment. You’re closer to cucked out soy.

[Horza]

This is supposed to be a Brexit discussion, the euphemisms for black dick and accusations of sexual impotence seem a little off topic.

[Thrombosis]

Why try anything? It just gets astroturfed by the billion dollar establishment every time.

That's my fear too. The 2016 referendum was the biggest ever electoral turnout in the UK, 33.5 million people turned out to vote - over 72% of the electorate. What exactly are they supposed to say to 52% of them who thought that they'd won the day after? "Sorry but folks who are smarter than you know better than you, don't worry though it's in your interests - trust us." I have no idea what's going to happen if that happens - maybe the people take to the streets, maybe they just don't bother voting again, whatever happens though it won't be good for my country.

[Teppler]

Sorry I thought the discussion was over. Allow me to cap it off. The UK is done. Brexit isn’t happening. The idea of democracy is finished there. It’s been reduced to- “well you can vote on things and maybe we’ll give you peasant what you want but probably not.” This is shit you normally see from 3rd world country dictators not a country trying to keep up the facade of a social compact between government and people.

[PieOats]

it = brexit? good:bad;

blackEdpill = gay (no homo)

y'all = constantollypated;

[Horza]

You’re closer to cucked out soy.

[Teppler]

Is there a group of people in this world more cucked than the ones that actually voted for Brexit, won and then aren't getting it?

[Horza]

I don't know who's more cucked, you or your cuck's cucked cuck.

[Jimjam]

"hijacked by tax avoiding aristrocrats"

How could you be so stupid to shill this line? That line describes every vote that has ever existed. Don't like the way a vote turned out- "aristocrats hijacked it!".

If a body of aristocrats have significant political power and the public voted for brexit, who is holding it up exactly? You're in a spin, dummy.

When you get billion dollar funded propaganda trying to explain to brexit is hijacked by tax avoiding aristocrats try to read between the lines at an adult level. Who do you think is sending this message? A bunch of poor people without the funds? Anti Brexit billionaires are trying to keep their gravy train running. They've successfully framed a grass roots democratic vote by the people as a "hijack by tax avoiding elite aristrocrats". It makes me absolutely sick to see you do their bidding here on this forum.

Consider JRM (leader of privy council, one of the top guys pushing no deal) specifically said there could be a second referendum on the negotiated deal while campaigning for brexit before the referendum, but now claims it would be undemocratic: yes i do think the movement has been hijacked.

You're arguing with me as if i am saying 'cancel brexit', which is absolute poppycock. I'm against leaving without a deal as it would be in conflict with the good friday agreement and surely reignite the troubles.

Tbh GFA makes Brexit undeliverable. Give NI an independence referendum. Brexit would be much easier without a legal mandate for an open irand comboed with NI being part of UK.

Personally i think Britain needs to leave after 2019 has ended. Those tax transparency laws are certainly scaring JRM as he keeps redefining brexit and how to implement it as that 31 December deadline gets closer and closer.

[Teppler]

:rolleyes:

This is all disingenuous. I don't follow it ultra closely but I follow it enough to have watched the UK's elites sabotage things and then throw their hands up in the air and say there's nothing that can be done. There's other trade deals to make out there. For one the US wants to fuck the EU and is ready to set up favorable deals. The UK elites act like fucking dickheads when the US extends their hand out and then they say boo hoo we'll starve if we leave the EU.

[Wonkie]

I'm against leaving without a deal as it would be in conflict with the good friday agreement and surely reignite the troubles.

As a non-British who has an opinion anyway, I don't think that would happen. The political climate in current year is way different now since GWOT, and white terrorism is a phrase that exists too. You can't get away with sending money to terrorists anymore, Peter King should be in Gitmo.

[aaezil]

Racists who voted for brexit cause they didnt like brown people are about to tank the uk’s economy lol epic fail

[Horza]

I don't follow it ultra closely

I never would have guessed that.

[Teppler]

I never would have guessed that.

Even sadder that I still have more intelligent comment on it than you.

[Jimjam]

The biggest problem is the UK is forbidden to negotiate with other countries until it has left the EU.

It's pretty dumb.

I believe I mentioned a few pages back; The first thing the UK should have negotiated is an exemption to that rule, so they could prospectively make trade deals with other countries before leaving the EU. The rule was written with a mind for countries remaining in EU, not leaving, so isn't appropriate for UK to observe it.

The EU would hold a lot less bargaining chips if the UK was able to circumvent that rule. Which is why I suppose they are so strict to enforce it.

As to starving? Britain was not set up logistically for international import/export rules. The import of food and medicine relied on no borders. Apparently a lot of work has gone into upping processing on both sides of the border, so while still problematic exiting on WTO rules wouldn't be quite as much of a disaster.

If we could leave Europe without sacrificing rights (except perhaps freedom of movement - one of the biggest selling points of Brexit was control of borders), do it at the start of 2020 (lets let those pending tax laws sting dodgy billionaires) and be able to have prenegotiated trade deals with blocs apart from just EU that would be great.

If shit hits fan, I'm just gonna retire to one of my Greek island residences *BIG SIP*.

[Horza]

Even sadder that I still have more intelligent comment on it than you.

comments*

[Wonkie]

comments*

comment is fine. the other part is what's silly.

[Teppler]

Racists who voted for brexit cause they didnt like brown people are about to tank the uk’s economy lol epic fail

2016 before election - We heard the same thing in the US, brother. Can't elect a racist guy who hates brown people because the US economy will tank. Evidence-

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-wall-street-effect-markets-230164

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/business/dealbook/what-happens-to-the-markets-if-donald-trump-wins.html

https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/06/news/economy/donald-trump-recession-larry-summers/

"Summers argues that the "Trump risk" is a lot more dangerous than the "Brexit risk" (the British referendum vote on June 23 on whether to leave the European Union) that has received so much attention."

""If Mr. Trump did even half of what he has promised, he would surely set off the worst trade war since the Great Depression," he wrote"


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/paul-krugman-the-economic-fallout

"So we are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight. I suppose we could get lucky somehow. But on economics, as on everything else, a terrible thing has just happened."

The real effect, I guess we got lucky-

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-remains-at-near-historic-low-of-3-7-percent-african-american-unemployment-rate-hits-new-series-low/

U.S. Unemployment Rate Remains at Near-Historic Low of 3.7 Percent; African-American Unemployment Rate Hits New Series Low

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/09/17/sorry-liberal-media-new-report-shows-robust-economic-growth-continues-under-trumps-leadership-n2553266

The labor market and the broader economy are both better than they look on the surface, and in fact have been mostly defying the continual patter of recession expectations.

By multiple measures, the U.S. is staying ahead of the global slowdown, the trade war with China and the bond market’s implication that the decadelong recovery after the financial crisis is coming to a close. Though the major Wall Street averages wobbled around breakeven … stocks are back near record highs as investors shrug off the wave of fear.

One gauge in particular shows how much the economy has defied downbeat forecasts.

The Citi Economic Surprise Index, after nearing its lowest level in two years in June, this week was at its highest point since February. The index looks at actual economic readings against consensus forecasts, so it will rise when expectations are too low and fall when optimism runs too strong. The latest move, then, can be seen as a recalibration of Wall Street’s overriding pessimism.

The fear mongering is a lot of bullshit.

[Wonkie]

2016 before election - We heard the same thing in the US, brother. Can't elect a racist guy who hates brown people because the US economy will tank. Evidence-

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-wall-street-effect-markets-230164

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/business/dealbook/what-happens-to-the-markets-if-donald-trump-wins.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/paul-krugman-the-economic-fallout

"So we are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight. I suppose we could get lucky somehow. But on economics, as on everything else, a terrible thing has just happened."

The real effect, I guess we got lucky-

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-remains-at-near-historic-low-of-3-7-percent-african-american-unemployment-rate-hits-new-series-low/

U.S. Unemployment Rate Remains at Near-Historic Low of 3.7 Percent; African-American Unemployment Rate Hits New Series Low

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/09/17/sorry-liberal-media-new-report-shows-robust-economic-growth-continues-under-trumps-leadership-n2553266



The fear mongering is a lot of bullshit.

fake news

[Wonkie]

wrongness isn't predictive, u boner

[Jimjam]

Completely different situation of hypothetical 'racists voting for trump' to hypothetical situation 'racists voting for Brexit'.

Trump has shifted around trade terms a bit, Britain is going to have changed trade terms and border policy with every country in the world. Also strip away all sorts of human and workers rights.

Britain's biggest sector is financial. Maybe dodging EU anti tax loophole laws will actually save the economy. Perhaps it runs on corruption and opaque accounts.

[Teppler]

Imagine if Trump was stopped from assuming presidency by the senate/congress because he would probably tank the economy.

[Jimjam]

More like the electoral colleges. It's their job to chose the president, right? The people voting is what informs their decision.

Parliament doing its job of representing their constituents. Of course circa 48% are going to be pro remain. That's the entire point of democratic representation.

The other 52% should be working on ensuring a Brexit is delivered as it was promoted by campaigners; easiest deal ever and definitely not no deal.

[Wonkie]

https://i.imgur.com/XooMWq5.jpg

[Horza]

I still have more intelligent comment on it than you is not grammatically correct without an article.

[Wonkie]

I still have more intelligent comment on it than you is not grammatically correct without an article.

it is.

[Horza]

It should be 'I still have a more intelligent comment on it than you,' while 'I still have more intelligent comment on it' sounds like a caveman.

[Wonkie]

a layman wouldn't understand. but teppler is not a layman.

(hehe)

[Wonkie]

It should be 'I still have a more intelligent comment on it than you,' while 'I still have more intelligent comment on it' sounds like a caveman.

no. comment is naturally plural. think 'make comment'

@loramin

[Horza]

Comments is the plural of comment.

[Wonkie]

Comments is the plural of comment.

and third graders is the plural of third grader.

[Horza]

It might make sense if comment was the predicate but as a singular noun its awkward without an article.

[Wonkie]

It might make sense if comment was the predicate but as a singular noun its awkward without an article.

it's british of course it's awkward

[Horza]

There's awkward and then there's grammatically awkward.

Speaking of which, why are we arguing about grammar and not who's getting cucked by the biggest black pill?

[Thrombosis]

More like the electoral colleges. It's their job to chose the president, right? The people voting is what informs their decision.

Parliament doing its job of representing their constituents. Of course circa 48% are going to be pro remain. That's the entire point of democratic representation.

The other 52% should be working on ensuring a Brexit is delivered as it was promoted by campaigners; easiest deal ever and definitely not no deal.

It's more like two thirds of MPs in parliament support remain. In some constituencies e.g. Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford, 70% of the electorate voted to Leave the EU in the referendum, their MP is one of the biggest remainers in parliament.

[Teppler]

More like the electoral colleges. It's their job to chose the president, right? The people voting is what informs their decision.

Parliament doing its job of representing their constituents. Of course circa 48% are going to be pro remain. That's the entire point of democratic representation.

The other 52% should be working on ensuring a Brexit is delivered as it was promoted by campaigners; easiest deal ever and definitely not no deal.

Lol @ treating Brexit like there’s shares of a stock where the 48% have claim to concessions. The 48% lost completely. They didn’t win part of it. Makes me crazy people twist democracy this way, act treasonous and blame it off on “parliament doing its job representing their constituents”. No, that’s exactly what their not doing by undermining democracy. Imagine fucking your common people’s sovereignty this bad and calling it “parliament doing its job representing their constituents”.

Doing their job is getting forward what was passed through vote, nothing less. Not getting this rolling is an amazing failure for them that breaks down the social compact between politicians and the people. They’ve dangled the idea they don’t have to do anything really which is just a giant fuck you to the idea of sovereignty.

52-48 votes need to work the same as 99-1 vote otherwise votes don’t work, as in this case. It defeats the purpose of a vote. And then what’s the cut off when something similar happens next? 53-47 votes can get mucked up? 54-46, 55-45 and anytime the elites don’t get the right votes- media campaign it was those dang aristocrats! Again, these are lines i expect to hear out of 3rd world dictatorships, it’s alarming to see it come from here. What will be the official line people have to cross where the votes are truly kosher. How can we measure in the future that ‘aristocrats’ haven’t had the proper influence on a vote so it’s not tainted? Do you not see how much bullshit this is?

When parliament isn’t fully behind the 52% that won the vote, there’s treason being taken place against the people. They are taking advantage of the situation and it is showing how the people of the UK don’t have any accountability for their politicians. Elites don’t like the way you vote on anything - “the aristocrats hijacked the vote”. It sounds like the elites have paid enough to get enough common people to adopt treasonous views towards the UK as well - that common people should support politicians committing treason if it’s for the right cause they’ve been brainwashed to support.

It really is poor long term thinking though, to throw your common people’s sovereignty away because you’re salty about losing the Brexit vote. It’s sad the elites have so much funds to flood you with consistently anti Brexit propaganda after the fact. Even sadder that the Brits are some of the worst mind controlled people on this planet and eat up the abuse. Like I showed, we saw the same thing in the US. In some of those links those expert economists said Trump was going to be worse than Brexit for the economy. We’re fine. The fear mongering about Brexit is wrong too. For one, I know there’s a lot of places like the US that would love to take a bite out of the EU by supporting the UK on this.

And why would the EU not set up favorable trade deals with the UK as well? Why wouldn’t failure to do so be considered a hostile act against a neighboring nation? At worst you could consider it an act of war if EU is abusive to a leaving UK. That’s shit we typically only do against places like North Korea that commit human rights violations. Would it really be appropriate to treat an exiting UK the same as North Korea? There’s a PR campaign to take against the EU here too the UK elites will not take advantage of because they are sabotaging.

I don’t even know why it’s worth getting this upset about the UK. It’s always this type of mega cucked bullshit coming out of there that it’s been a lost cause forever. And I’m clearly more upset about it than anyone I’ve actually seen living there. Actually are UK citizens even able to make posts like I have above without fear of their secret police busting their door down for criticizing the integrity of their government?

[Tethler]

When parliament isn’t fully behind the 52% that won the vote, there’s treason being taken place against the people.

Interesting take there. If an MP represents an area that overwhelmingly voted remain, that MP should then do everything in their power to assist with Brexit? That sounds like a betrayal against the people that they represent to me.

[PieOats]

You’re closer to cucked out soy.

HweeeewwwwDOAWGEy yeeeeHAw! That's gon be a grats, PieOats.

Wuat specifically about that post *TRIGGERED* this emotional outburst ((of yours))?

[Teppler]

Interesting take there. If an MP represents an area that overwhelmingly voted remain, that MP should then do everything in their power to assist with Brexit? That sounds like a betrayal against the people that they represent to me.

Nope. That's simply taking a loss you earned by not having enough people show up to vote. Like I pointed out, getting 48% of the vote doesn't award concessions. Yes MP's have duty to their people but correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know UK government structure super well but here in the US, we have a greater duty to the central government first and foremost and thus the overall body of people before the specific states, I assume it's the same over there. You're not allowed to trip over federal guidelines to cater to your specific state. You work your state rights within the federal not the other way. Otherwise things will get fucked up pretty fast if little states have these many rights. Causing a ruckus that mucks up the procedure of the win vote is treasonous against the rest of your country by pushing to break down the social compact. Of course there's outside foreign entities that are pushing this very break down of social compact because why the fuck not? It's largely going to be elite foreigners taking advantage of no brexit and why should they care about UK's sovereignty and the integrity of that government? It's not theirs, it's simply there for them to make profit off of. There's a lot of foreigners in the EU that are big time trade moguls who stand to lose a lot if UK leaves and they don't gain anything if the UK keeps integrity dealing with its common people. It's sad they have so much funds to create so much influence from a vested position that isn't UK citizenship.

[Jimjam]

MPs are first and foremost representatives of their constituency (i.e. local area). Their job is to represent the desires and interests of those people.

The government should be working on Brexit, supported by MPs of areas who voted to leave.

MPs of areas that voted remain should be either working against Brexit, or working to have concessions made as part of the Brexit agreement to represent the wishes of their constituency.

As much as it may annoy you across the pond, the MPs representing their specific constituency is a feature not a bug.

[Teppler]

MPs are first and foremost representatives of their constituency (i.e. local area). Their job is to represent the desires and interests of those people.

The government should be working on Brexit, supported by MPs of areas who voted to leave.

MPs of areas that voted remain should be either working against Brexit, or working to have concessions made as part of the Brexit agreement to represent the wishes of their constituency.

As much as it may annoy you across the pond, the MPs representing their specific constituency is a feature not a bug.

Let’s give hypothetical example then if push comes to shove. Lets say an MPs constituency pushes hard for an MP to do something that is illegal on a ‘centralized federal level’, whatever they call it over there, but it’s good for the constituency. Who wins this struggle? The central crown or the constituency? By viewing this example with pressures, you see who really serves who and what has to happen.

[Teppler]

This sure doesn't happen when there's close votes on things like LGBT issues.

To the losers on that it becomes 'shut up and deal with it. Stop crying about how bad it's going to be for you, you lost completely, this is progress'.

But somehow the losers here have all sorts of rights to allow them to negotiate and actually get their desired result from the beginning.

Funny how it works out this way.

[feniin]

The fact that you look at it as winners and losers says a lot about you.

[Jimjam]

Let’s give hypothetical example then if push comes to shove. Lets say an MPs constituency pushes hard for an MP to do something that is illegal on a ‘centralized federal level’, whatever they call it over there, but it’s good for the constituency. Who wins this struggle? The central crown or the constituency? By viewing this example with pressures, you see who really serves who and what has to happen.

Yea, it is those pushing for the no deal Brexit that are 'pushing hard for MPs to do something illegal'. Using an advisory referendum to dictate government policy, reneging on the Good Friday Agreement, airy fairy campaign promises (the two worst offenders for having made these are the head of the privy council and the PM: two men in the best positions to implement these unkept promises - but nope)... All of these things are at best of dubious legality.

So your hypothetical situation is what we are seeing now except the situation is flipped and the condom is on the other cock.

[Wonkie]

UK is akshually a constitutional theocratic monarchy. the one sovereign is God and He is represented on this plane by the Queen/King, serving as Vicar.

the people are subjects, not sovereign

Change my mind

[Horza]

It’s always this type of mega cucked bullshit coming out of there that it’s been a lost cause forever. And I’m clearly more upset about it than anyone I’ve actually seen living there.

Those LGBT losers and their throbbing, massive black pills.

[Teppler]

The fact that you look at it as winners and losers says a lot about you.

The fact that you think people own a share of a yes/no vote they lost says a lot as well.

[Teppler]

Those LGBT losers and their throbbing, massive black pills.

Looks like you have a new favorite phrase. Black pill black pill black pill black pill. Want to make another post about it?

[Horza]

I guess we just share a common fetish.

[Thrombosis]

Yea, it is those pushing for the no deal Brexit that are 'pushing hard for MPs to do something illegal'. Using an advisory referendum to dictate government policy, reneging on the Good Friday Agreement, airy fairy campaign promises (the two worst offenders for having made these are the head of the privy council and the PM: two men in the best positions to implement these unkept promises - but nope)... All of these things are at best of dubious legality.

So your hypothetical situation is what we are seeing now except the situation is flipped and the condom is on the other cock.

There's absolutely nothing illegal about a no-deal, clean-break Brexit. In fact, the opposite is true - it's the law - Article 50 states once a member state invokes A50, they have two years to negotiate a deal, after that they're out unless it's revoked or the conditions for an extension are met. Similarly there's nothing in the Good Friday Agreement that states the UK (or RoIreland for that matter) have to stay members of the EU.

[Teppler]

Yea, it is those pushing for the no deal Brexit that are 'pushing hard for MPs to do something illegal'. Using an advisory referendum to dictate government policy, reneging on the Good Friday Agreement, airy fairy campaign promises (the two worst offenders for having made these are the head of the privy council and the PM: two men in the best positions to implement these unkept promises - but nope)... All of these things are at best of dubious legality.

So your hypothetical situation is what we are seeing now except the situation is flipped and the condom is on the other cock.

You kind of evaded answering my question directly. But then you did answer it the way I suspected the relationship actually is. MP are servants of the centralized crown by law first and foremost. They can’t do illegal things. The crown has authority over them. That’s what they serve. Which is the opposite of what you originally said in previous posts.I think a certain relationship needs to be understood here. The law and integrity of the land and state comes first, always, for any healthy state. The preferences of the people come second. Survival comes before creativity and will. There is no creativity and will without surviving first. There is no democracy to survive if these votes don’t count. On a basic philosophical level, UK needs Brexit or it is philosophically doomed. Elitist intellectuals are already picking at the corpse. Stop it now. There needs to be integrity to something centralized. If I’ve ever seen an argument for something like the actual royal family stepping in, nows the time.

[Horza]

Fresh Brexit talks row as U.K. asks E.U. to keep its proposals secret. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret)

The row was sparked by a British demand that the E.U.’s negotiating team treat a long-awaited cache of documents outlining the U.K.’s latest ideas as “Her Majesty’s government property”. Whitehall told the European commission team that the three “confidential” papers should not be distributed to delegates representing the 27 other member states.

Sources in Brussels said that in response the point was made forcefully to the British negotiating team that all proposals would need to be made available for the E.U.’s capitals to analyse for talks to progress.

[Thrombosis]

Fresh Brexit talks row as U.K. asks E.U. to keep its proposals secret. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret)

The row was sparked by a British demand that the E.U.’s negotiating team treat a long-awaited cache of documents outlining the U.K.’s latest ideas as “Her Majesty’s government property”. Whitehall told the European commission team that the three “confidential” papers should not be distributed to delegates representing the 27 other member states.

Sources in Brussels said that in response the point was made forcefully to the British negotiating team that all proposals would need to be made available for the E.U.’s capitals to analyse for talks to progress.

Unsurprisingly, the details have been leaked already. So much for the EU acting in good faith.

[feniin]

What part of Union don't you clowns understand? You don't negotiate with one party independently of the rest.

[Thrombosis]

Irish PM's sectarian slur over UK Prime Minister. (https://order-order.com/2019/09/20/varadkar-throw-water-boris-new-york/) Seems like Ireland have been taking lessons in diplomacy from Luxembourg.

[Jimjam]

There's absolutely nothing illegal about a no-deal, clean-break Brexit. In fact, the opposite is true - it's the law - Article 50 states once a member state invokes A50, they have two years to negotiate a deal, after that they're out unless it's revoked or the conditions for an extension are met. Similarly there's nothing in the Good Friday Agreement that states the UK (or RoIreland for that matter) have to stay members of the EU.

We clearly have opposite view points on this. You believe the article 50 extension was illegal, but you also think the good friday agreement is trivial enough to throw out.

As someone who lived in a city that was dirty bombed by the IRA (which was then covered up to have just been a normal explosion), grew up with daily reports of casualties on TV and had family serve: i'm not particularly keen of risking a return to the bad old days.

The problem is artical 50 was triggered way too early. We should have worked out what we wanted to try negotiate (and take time to prepare for future logistical obstacles) before we started the deathclock on achieving those aspirations.

[mmmroo]

ugh

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/bill-clinton-blue-dress-painting-jeffrey-epstein-1628437

[Teppler]

Kevin Spacey's accuser dies as well. Everything is fine and normal.

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/kevin-spacey-accuser-dies/

These are all just coincidences

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5ha_UsCEAAZFbL.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/02/22/arts/22UNDERWOOD3/22UNDERWOOD3-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/02/22/arts/22UNDERWOOD2/22UNDERWOOD2-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

[Domo]

Bill Clinton died?

[Horza]

Don't mind the conspiracy idiots trying to derail this thread with Kevin Spacey crap.

[Wonkie]

Don't mind the conspiracy idiots trying to derail this thread with Kevin Spacey crap.

He has a valid point.

We should eat the rich.

[Horza]

I hate the Clintons as much as anybody, but I'll pass on the paranoid delusions.

[Teppler]

I hate the Clintons as much as anybody, but I'll pass on the paranoid delusions.

Look at this good guy playing defense lawyer for child rapists for free. Imagine doing that in your free time.

[Horza]

This is supposed to be a Brexit discussion thread, kindly take your #ClintonBodyCount nonsense back to Twitter.

[Teppler]

This is supposed to be a Brexit discussion thread, kindly take your #ClintonBodyCount nonsense back to Twitter.

Same elites sponsors the Clinton family also own the UK. It’s tied through banking/funding empire. Don’t you get it? They despise independence on all levels unless they are sponsoring it against their enemies intelligence agency style.

[Jimjam]

Are you talking about those who own the Bank of England?
By which I mean the Court of Directors who have complete control of monetary policy and are protected by Royal Charter and Official Secrets Act.

[PieOats]

BRRREXIT *WILL* happen boys.

My boi Borris has the LAW (SCotUK), the PEOPLE(except some of the trash) and the CROWN behind him.

October the 31st of the year of our Lord 2019 will be a GREAT day for FREEDOM.

*throws a Hello Kitty pack of travel tissues at you*

[Jimjam]

I remember when BJ was campaigning pre referendum (which was on 23rd of June 2016) he told us "24th June will be our independence day".

Does this mean 31st oct and 24th june will be independence day?

All I know is we are gonna have some great trick or trEat costUmes this year!

[Teppler]

Are you talking about those who own the Bank of England?
By which I mean the Court of Directors who have complete control of monetary policy and are protected by Royal Charter and Official Secrets Act.

Isn’t your public banking system basically the bitch of your private banking system? Imagine being innocent or naive enough to think financing is innocent in all of this and not the main player. Why are you constantly misrepresenting these situations now? In 2019 you can break down all political strife into efforts of the main globalist banking institution to firm up control by-

Either them presenting you kosher option 1 vs kosher option 2 and presenting it’s a fight to the death. Your McCains vs Obama’s.

Or

Destroying one of the final holdouts from global banking- your Syria, Iraq’s, North Korea’s

Or

Neutralizing or recruiting populist movements like Trump or Brexit.

You control the banks, you control the politicians who believe they are democratically and fairly electing them as honest representatives. That one guy is right, democracy is a sham.

[Jimjam]

Take a deep breath and read again.

Yes our financial sector is a corrupt sham. Thats why they want brexit, to avoid EU closing financial opaque loop holes with legislation that would come in on 31 December. That is why JRM / BJ wants Oct 31 Brexit. Out of europe = no requirement for transparent finances.

I know you want to perceive me as a hardcore remainer, naiive, etc. i'm not advocating undermining brexit. I'm advocating undermining corruption (on both sides). 2020 brexit; lets close these tax loop holes before removing Europe's reigns.

I'm not as naiive as you read; reread! My post was clear(?) the 'government ownership' of the bank of england is a sham. The anonymous and all powerful directors really control it, with zero accountability.

Why do you constantly misrepresent my postitions? Intentionally constructing straw men to attack, you just get overexcited and lose sight of what you are replying to, poor reading comprehension or my own poor writing?

[Teppler]

Take a deep breath and read again.

Yes our financial sector is a corrupt sham. Thats why they want brexit, to avoid EU closing financial opaque loop holes with legislation that would come in on 31 December. That is why JRM / BJ wants Oct 31 Brexit. Out of europe = no requirement for transparent finances.

I know you want to perceive me as a hardcore remainer, naiive, etc. i'm not advocating undermining brexit. I'm advocating undermining corruption (on both sides). 2020 brexit; lets close these tax loop holes before removing Europe's reigns.

I'm not as naiive as you read; reread! My post was clear(?) the 'government ownership' of the bank of england is a sham. The anonymous and all powerful directors really control it, with zero accountability.

Why do you constantly misrepresent my postitions? Intentionally constructing straw men to attack, you just get overexcited and lose sight of what you are replying to, poor reading comprehension or my own poor writing?

So you have an understanding that england is owned by globalist bankers that push multiculturalism against the common people and you still think the failure of brexit to go through is a matter of the independent side cheating in a certain sense after the common people voted to side with the independents?

Rich ass globalist bankers are making sure England doesn't escape it's grip. They have deals that are counting on exploiting Europe as a whole, not dingy singular nations. And trying to push that it's helpless and there's great negative ramifications if anyone even tries to escape. They will work really hard to get former Brexit politicians under their control and neutralize them just like they've done with Trump and anything what could resemble being called the 'alt right'. Hitler was once under their control too but he went rogue after he repaid globalist bankers debt and broke control. There's more to the story and it's the modern history of global politics.

[Horza]

Enough with the globalist dog whistles. Don't be a coward, just say it already. You think Jews secretly control the world.

[Teppler]

Enough with the globalist dog whistles already. Don't be a coward, just say it already. You think Jews secretly control the world.

We have to be a little nuanced over here or we get in trouble. That should tell you something about how deep their power structure runs. We have to be very sensitive, even here.

[Horza]

Hitler was once under their control too but he went rogue after he repaid globalist bankers debt and broke control.

Your edits are way too fucking overt. Just say it already, you think Jews secretly control the world.

[Horza]

I mean come on, what the hell is kosher banking? Next you'll compare Brexit to a bris.

[Wonkie]

We have to be a little nuanced over here or we get in trouble. That should tell you something about how deep their power structure runs. We have to be very sensitive, even here.

lol

[Horza]

We have to be a little nuanced over here. We have to be very sensitive, even here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY&feature=youtu.be&t=30)

[Teppler]

Your edits are way too fucking overt. Just say it already, you think Jews secretly control the world.

I get it you don't like my point about global banking and you'd like them to go away by calling me a bigot but maybe at least try to have some sort of an argument point, you piece of shit?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement-en.svg/2000px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement-en.svg.png

Congrats, at least you're not at the very bottom level and have made it to the ad hominem range.

[Horza]

To be honest, I found your point about Hitler more amusing than anything you said about banking.

[Teppler]

I wonder how many posters here actually know the story of what happened to Hitler pre ww2 and how bad the global banks fucked him and Germany. Ever wonder why Hitler is built up as the ultimate evil post ww2? I'll give you a clue, it didn't have anything to do with concentration camps which were all over the world, US included.

After WW1 Germany was responsible for repaying the world basically. This was a deal cut by zionists placed in charge of Germany and they were to deal with other world wide globalist zionist bankers. That situation is fucked for the German people and fucked they became. Germany became a ghetto nation after world war 1. They had no chance to rebuild their country. Any money they made went into paying off interest made on loans Germany had to make to repay the world off of bogus debts. Germany looked like an utterly helpless nation totally and completely owned by banking loan repayment forever.

In comes Hitler. He was loved by the people for giving spirited speeches and rallying these down trodden people. He was an economic genius. He saw the banking system and loans and figured out another way. Hitler introduced a nationalized barter system where people largely traded goods and serves with each others. Germany developed their own form of currency basically, away from the banks. Germany started offering interest free loans with this.

Germany goes from the ghetto of Europe to the world super power within a number of years. All without zionist banking. Germany became so incredibly wealthy that Hitler's government was able to completely and utterly pay off the debts from WW1.

After Hitler repaid Germany's debts to the world, he asked the bankers to please leave germany. He saw the horrible exploitation Germany suffered under bankers regime post WW1 and simply asked them to peacefully leave and take their banking with them. He did not rob them or anything like that. He repaid them fully.

This is what got Hitler in trouble more than anything. He had the gall to say no to globalist banking. Any person or nation that says no to zionist banking is a gigantic threat to their power structure. Their power structure exists by having everyone buy into the value of their worthless paper they call currency that they can print at will. Of course they have many assets behind their wealth but their active power structure is getting people to believe in their currency and the power of their loans. For Hitler to develop a system outside of zionist banking was a disaster for zionists bankers. Imagine if America was next and said they wanted to try their hands without zionist banking? US is the gold calf for these people. Instead they recruited the US to fight against Germany. There became a world wide harassment effort to bring Hitler and Germany to heel and bring back zionist banking as the uninterrupted power source.

After Hitler expelled the bankers, those poor people rallied a world wide harassment effort and surrounded Germany on multiple fronts. Germany takes the bait at some point and there you have the start of WW2. Banker class frames this, with their total control of western media, that Hitler is out of control and an aggressive maniac.

These people have only grown more powerful since WW2. They've stomped out a bunch of the remaining holdouts without those banks like Iraq and Afganistan. North Korea and Syria are two hold outs that I know off the top of my head. There's a reason why we get such heavy and consistent propaganda about these places and why we need to stick our noses in them.

If I'm wrong about any of this, someone else me know.

[PieOats]

lulz, please dispatch the rabbit.

[Horza]

Ever wonder why Hitler is built up as the ultimate evil post ww2? I'll give you a clue, it didn't have anything to do with concentration camps

The Holocaust was the systematic annihilation of six million Jews by the Nazi regime during World War 2. In 1933 approximately nine million Jews lived in the 21 countries of Europe that would be occupied by Germany during the war. By 1945 two out of every three European Jews had been killed.

But Jews were not the only group singled out for persecution by Hitler’s Nazi regime. As many as one-half million Gypsies, at least 250,000 mentally or physically disabled persons, and more than three million Soviet prisoners-of-war also fell victim to Nazi genocide. Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, Social Democrats, Communists, partisans, trade unionists, Polish intelligentsia and other undesirables were also victims of the hate and aggression carried out by the Nazis. (http://www.auschwitz.dk/holofaq.htm)

Zionists, really? Please, just say Jews already. You're so close.

[Wonkie]

lulz, please dispatch the rabbit.

[Teppler]

I highly doubt anyone was systematically killed.

The US had concentration camps just like Germany for their foreign populations. The difference? The allies won the war and could continue to feed their prisoners. The axis were losing on multiple fronts and had supply lines cut off. The Germans couldn’t even feed their own soldiers by the end of the war let alone POWs. Any burning that happened had to do with disinfecting from typhus. Somehow that turned into propaganda about mass burnings alive.

Reality- Auschwitz "holocaust survivor" interviews, in their own words... watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enDkqO1OKCc

Orchestras

Painting

Sports

Medical care

Ballet

Beer

Movie theaters

etc.

Was it a “extermination camp"? Or a POW camp where people died towards the end of the war due to starvation and disease? By all realistic accounts German POWs were treated extremely well by POW standards and they tried to keep them alive as long as possible. Hence why all the death pictures of them are skin and bones. Gassing a person doesn’t magically make you skin and bones. That’s what starving does and the Germans were cut off from supply lines. Same thing would of happened to US prisoners if we lost.

[Teppler]

But yeah keep giving me your literal 2nd grade hand out explanation of Hitler and the Holocaust where he’s just some rabid demon attacking everyone for no reason. Lmao

[Horza]

Any burning that happened had to do with disinfecting from typhus. Somehow that turned into propaganda about mass burnings alive.

By all means, keep defending the poor, maligned reputation of Adolf fucking Hitler.

[Teppler]

By all means, keep defending the poor, maligned reputation of Adolf fucking Hitler.

I will while you keep defending those good guy innocent bankers. I get it, they need a break.

[feniin]

I will while you keep defending those good guy innocent bankers. I get it, they need a break.

Total yikes.

[Teppler]

And hey, while we are all still super occupied with the sanctity of innocent life, anyone want to get a body count throughout all the bank expanding wars such as Iraq and Afghan invasions and more? Oh oops you won’t know anything about those because the media doesn’t tell us those innocent people(many children included) are important like the six gorrilion.

#perspective #priorities

[Horza]

#disinfectingfromtyphus

[Teppler]

Total yikes.

During the war in Afghanistan (2001–present), over 31,000 civilian deaths due to war-related violence have been documented;[1][2] 29,900 civilians have been wounded.[2] Over 111,000 Afghans, including civilians, soldiers and militants, are estimated to have been killed in the conflict.[1] The Cost of War project estimated that the number who have died through indirect causes related to the war may be as high as 360,000 additional people based on a ratio of indirect to direct deaths in contemporary conflicts.[3] These numbers do not include those who have died in Pakistan.

Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to over a million (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 183,348 - 205,908 violent civilian deaths through April 2019. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.[4][5]

Funny how people like fenlin judge values. Somehow doing the above completely for profit doesn't matter.

But having POWs in a losing war effort and running out of supplies is the biggest evil to have ever existed.

[Wonkie]

Holocaust denial but also America is the real Holocaust

now thats eclectic!

[Teppler]

History is always told by the victors. Imagine the story that would be told if Germany won. The reality is somewhere in the middle.

Hitler almost blew up the bankers scheme with his barter system. After Allies win, and all the winners are on the same side, do you think they are going to tell stories about how Hitler wasn't that bad a guy and made up genius systems that almost bankrupted the highest power of the Allies, their banks? Most people know nothing about Hitler's barter system because they try to keep it hidden. They try to leave the story about how Hitler was just an aggressive mad man.

[Horza]

If Germany had won I would not be alive to disagree with you.

[Teppler]

If Germany had won I would not be alive to disagree with you.

Well I could tell you are invested personally in some way. Which protected class are you then?

FYI you've heard too many boogie man fairly tales about nazi Germany coming to get people. They simply wanted to be left alone away from zionist banking influence. I'll repeat, Hitler completely repaid their loans before expelling them. He didn't want to go around murdering people. He wanted peace.

[Wonkie]

Loving all these Hitler facts

[Horza]

Who isn't invested personally in some way? Both of my grandfathers fought in the war.

[Jimjam]

So you have an understanding that england is owned by globalist bankers that push multiculturalism against the common people and you still think the failure of brexit to go through is a matter of the independent side cheating in a certain sense after the common people voted to side with the independents?

Rich ass globalist bankers are making sure England doesn't escape it's grip. They have deals that are counting on exploiting Europe as a whole, not dingy singular nations. And trying to push that it's helpless and there's great negative ramifications if anyone even tries to escape. They will work really hard to get former Brexit politicians under their control and neutralize them just like they've done with Trump and anything what could resemble being called the 'alt right'. Hitler was once under their control too but he went rogue after he repaid globalist bankers debt and broke control. There's more to the story and it's the modern history of global politics.You do realise there are different groups of wealthy with competing interests?

While it may be a case of us vs them, they aren't a cohesive team. It is also them vs them.

Some old money wants to Brexit to avoid tax scrutiny and literally wrote the book on disaster capitalism. Others are invested in an open Europe because they make money off their ownership of goods and services traded across this huge block. I know my partner and I's own businesses have been greatly facilitated by the EU and it is a bit of a ball ache when I need to transport from an EU country to another EU country via a non-EU country. It's nice having duel tax agreements.

Great play by the establishment to pretend leaving EU is an anti establishment move IMHO.

The EU has benefited labour forces by adding lots of rights. 42 hr working weeks and stuff. Not that such legislation is well enforced.

I do think all sides in UK are playing their cards pretty poorly (except Farage who has managed a political Lazarus). Foul play from all sides for three years really. A lot is at stake.

[Teppler]

Who isn't invested personally in some way? Both of my grandfathers fought in the war.

Lots of people. Simply your grandfathers faught? It sounded like you were about to make another personal revelation.

My grandfather did too. They were deluded. There was no internet back then. Our grandfathers had to rely on television and news papers which were much more effective as propaganda without the internet back in the day. Ever see what general Patton said of the war?

“Berlin gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race and we about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will be communist.

It’s said that for the first week after they took it, all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could have taken it had I been allowed.

The stuff in the papers about fraternization is all wet... All that sort of writing is done by Jews to get revenge. Actually the Germans are the only decent people left in Europe. It’s a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the Germans.”

“I also wrote a letter to the Secretary of War, Mr. Stimson, on the question of the pro-Jewish influence in the Military Government of Germany. I dared do this because when I was in Washington, he showed me a great deal of correspondence he had had with the Secretary of State and Mr. Morgenthau prior to the Quebec Conference.

2 September 1945

I had never heard that we fought to de-natzify Germany – live and learn. What we are doing is to utterly destroy the only semi-modern state in Europe so that Russia can swallow the whole.

14 September 1945

I was going to Nancy in the morning to become a citizen but Ike phoned he is coming here so I had best stay and see him. Perhaps I can make him see the menace of the M’s. They have 300,000 troops in Checo. [i.e. Czechoslovakia] now and are running 200,000 more in, and we are pulling out – getting the boys home by Xmas. It may well result in getting them back in the trenches by spring…

I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff. It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to sending PW’s to work as slaves in foreign lands where many will be starved to death…“

[PieOats]

11183


EDAT: For JimJam

*daps Nigel*

[Horza]

#disinfectingfromtyphus

[Jimjam]

I wonder how many posters here actually know the story of what happened to Hitler pre ww2 and how bad the global banks fucked him and Germany. Ever wonder why Hitler is built up as the ultimate evil post ww2? I'll give you a clue, it didn't have anything to do with concentration camps which were all over the world, US included.

After WW1 Germany was responsible for repaying the world basically. This was a deal cut by zionists placed in charge of Germany and they were to deal with other world wide globalist zionist bankers. That situation is fucked for the German people and fucked they became. Germany became a ghetto nation after world war 1. They had no chance to rebuild their country. Any money they made went into paying off interest made on loans Germany had to make to repay the world off of bogus debts. Germany looked like an utterly helpless nation totally and completely owned by banking loan repayment forever.

In comes Hitler. He was loved by the people for giving spirited speeches and rallying these down trodden people. He was an economic genius. He saw the banking system and loans and figured out another way. Hitler introduced a nationalized barter system where people largely traded goods and serves with each others. Germany developed their own form of currency basically, away from the banks. Germany started offering interest free loans with this.

Germany goes from the ghetto of Europe to the world super power within a number of years. All without zionist banking. Germany became so incredibly wealthy that Hitler's government was able to completely and utterly pay off the debts from WW1.

After Hitler repaid Germany's debts to the world, he asked the bankers to please leave germany. He saw the horrible exploitation Germany suffered under bankers regime post WW1 and simply asked them to peacefully leave and take their banking with them. He did not rob them or anything like that. He repaid them fully.

This is what got Hitler in trouble more than anything. He had the gall to say no to globalist banking. Any person or nation that says no to zionist banking is a gigantic threat to their power structure. Their power structure exists by having everyone buy into the value of their worthless paper they call currency that they can print at will. Of course they have many assets behind their wealth but their active power structure is getting people to believe in their currency and the power of their loans. For Hitler to develop a system outside of zionist banking was a disaster for zionists bankers. Imagine if America was next and said they wanted to try their hands without zionist banking? US is the gold calf for these people. Instead they recruited the US to fight against Germany. There became a world wide harassment effort to bring Hitler and Germany to heel and bring back zionist banking as the uninterrupted power source.

After Hitler expelled the bankers, those poor people rallied a world wide harassment effort and surrounded Germany on multiple fronts. Germany takes the bait at some point and there you have the start of WW2. Banker class frames this, with their total control of western media, that Hitler is out of control and an aggressive maniac.

These people have only grown more powerful since WW2. They've stomped out a bunch of the remaining holdouts without those banks like Iraq and Afganistan. North Korea and Syria are two hold outs that I know off the top of my head. There's a reason why we get such heavy and consistent propaganda about these places and why we need to stick our noses in them.

If I'm wrong about any of this, someone else me know.

I don't know if it is still the case, but when I was studying my GCSEs (academic exams/ qualifications done at 14-16 years old when you can finish school) WWI, WWII and interwar period in Europe were taught, especially the rise of the Nazi party. Treaties, reparations, and general external fuckery with the economy were very much covered.

I also remember Germany finishing its reparations during my lifetime, maybe a decade ago. Or at least that is how it was reported in the news. Fake news?

[Teppler]

You do realise there are different groups of wealthy with competing interests?

While it may be a case of us vs them, they aren't a cohesive team. It is also them vs them.

Some old money wants to Brexit to avoid tax scrutiny and literally wrote the book on disaster capitalism. Others are invested in an open Europe because they make money off their ownership of goods and services traded across this huge block. I know my partner and I's own businesses have been greatly facilitated by the EU and it is a bit of a ball ache when I need to transport from an EU country to another EU country via a non-EU country. It's nice having duel tax agreements.

Great play by the establishment to pretend leaving EU is an anti establishment move IMHO.

The EU has benefited labour forces by adding lots of rights. 42 hr working weeks and stuff. Not that such legislation is well enforced.

I do think all sides in UK are playing their cards pretty poorly (except Farage who has managed a political Lazarus). Foul play from all sides for three years really. A lot is at stake.

They are a cohesive team. We’re living in 2019 where people who are not part of the cohesive team are stomped out through murder or some embarrassing scandal that becomes public. Globalist bankers generally don’t allow other big time actors on to their stage. Why would they? The exceptions might be the Trump types that rise up but are eventually bought out. Either that or they get wrapped in manufactured scandal after scandal rendering them completely useless and powerless.

Don’t shill the argument now that UK leaving the EU is a move by the establishment bankers. It doesn’t work logically. If establishment elites wanted to leave, who would be stopping them now? The people voted for it. This is a “fuck the common people” situation that is going on. Who has the power to do that besides the highest of elites? Not the 2nd highest elites. Then the first highest would step in.

There’s a lot more money for them to make opening things up. And having a successful Brexit influences other EU countries to do that same which would be disastrous for them. I assure you these big time bankers exploiting the EU want that least of anything and will pay for it not to happen and they have more money than anyone in this world to

Little independent nations can be dangerous for world wide banking. Independent thought alert situations can happen. It’s much safer for them to have 1 currency, 1 set of laws, no gun, everyone in debt owing them money.

[Jimjam]

11183


EDAT: For JimJam

*daps Nigel*

English man with a French surname married to a German woman, speaks German at home. Wants to take back control. TBH I think he is projecting his household struggles on to the country :D.


I'm personally not a fan, but I'm not going to shout someone down for having their own opinion :).

[Jimjam]

German reparations? You might be thinking of post ww2? My story here is strictly between ww1 and ww2.

I'm sure they were reported as WWI reparations... quick google and the Daily Fail seems to agree. Quick scan says 2010 WWI reparations paid back. Crazy.

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=when+did+germany+pay+off+reparations&d=4562719897747564&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=omLRY02_AFYa4sfETEb4xe18GXA84yIg


TBH it seems kinda wrangly.

[Teppler]

I'm sure they were reported as WWI reparations... quick google and the Daily Fail seems to agree. Quick scan says 2010 WWI reparations paid back. Crazy.

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=when+did+germany+pay+off+reparations&d=4562719897747564&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=omLRY02_AFYa4sfETEb4xe18GXA84yIg


TBH it seems kinda wrangly.

I always admit when I get something wrong and I think I got something wrong here. It's been a while since I've looked up all the specific facts. I don't think Hitler completely repaid WW1 debts. He did, however, take germany from a ghetto nation that was there from the heels of having to pay massive interest rates to the world's biggest super power.

[Jimjam]

Investment banker and lead brexiteer "The Honourable* Jacob Rees-Mogg", member of privy council (hence later The Right Honourable, Mp).

- nope, not establishment in the slightest.


*that means his father is enobled

[Teppler]

I'm sure there's plenty of millionaires that want Brexit. They aren't trillionaires tho.

http://media.luxury-insider.com/public/uploads/rothschild.jpg

[Horza]

rothschild.jpg

Finally you just call them Jews.

[Jimjam]

Millionaires vs billionaires. Perhaps a fair retort.

[Teppler]

Millionaires vs billionaires. Perhaps a fair retort.

Frankly from where I'm viewing all these pro Brexit people in government seem to be doing a good job for the establishment remain side as well. They will never leave despite a clear majority voting directly for it. The biggest political cucking I've ever seen in my entire life.

[Wonkie]

I'm sure they were reported as WWI reparations... quick google and the Daily Fail seems to agree. Quick scan says 2010 WWI reparations paid back. Crazy.

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=when+did+germany+pay+off+reparations&d=4562719897747564&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=omLRY02_AFYa4sfETEb4xe18GXA84yIg


TBH it seems kinda wrangly.

I'd be keen to read a comparison of German war reparations(debt) with current USA national debt, particularly the sums, payment structure, and percentages with regard to GDP.

Could one of you Google it for me?

[Jimjam]

Quick google shows american billionnaires funded brexit propaganda campaign.

No wonder you new worlders are so wild for it!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit

Very left source (by uk standards, must be total commie by yank standards).

[Jimjam]

Could one of you Google it for me?

I wish i had such power!

[Jimjam]

The Guardian is center-left at best.

Kinda. Murdoch's mind control Empire shifts the average in media terms far to the right. And he wants pictures of that villain spiderman!

[Horza]

Very left source (by uk standards, must be total commie by yank standards).

The Guardian is center-left at best.

[Teppler]

Jimjam I'm going to introduce you to an ancient tactic and crime they used to use and are stilling doing it today. It’s why most populist movements never make it off the ground.

Well poisoning. When there’s a good will type movement by the people they do something they’ve done for thousands of years, they poison the well. They destroy people’s only chance at nourishment to keep them weak.

I noticed it happen with within what was called the alt right. Systematically the reasonable voices have been banned and blacklisted while bad faith actors like Richard Spencer or Ben Shapiro are the only ones left. Purpose? Let their own actors frame the discussions and debates from a POV they prefer.

[Jimjam]

Kinda. Murdoch's mind control Empire shifts the average in media terms far to the right. And he wants pictures of that villain spiderman!

The Guardian is center-left at best.

Well the time machine test worked. See you guys in 1999! I'll make sure to evidence bard aoe limit of 4 to help smoothe out greens opening weekend!!

[Wonkie]

Jimjam I'm going to introduce you to an ancient tactic and crime they used to use and are stilling doing it today. It’s why most populist movements never make it off the ground.

Well poisoning. When there’s a good will type movement by the people they do something they’ve done for thousands of years, they poison the well. They destroy people’s only chance at nourishment to keep them weak.

I noticed it happen with within what was called the alt right. Systematically the reasonable voices have been banned and blacklisted while bad faith actors like Richard Spencer or Ben Shapiro are the only ones left. Purpose? Let their own actors frame the discussions and debates from a POV they prefer.

No True Whiteman

[Teppler]

Charlottesville was an example of a well poisoning honey pot. Many people from the right warned against it. It was a trap from the start. CIA definitely got into the alt right to quell and subvert the movement. In fact a great majority of posts on 4chan right now are intelligence communities pushing alt right where they want them to go.

[Horza]

Holocaust denial and crisis actors, you must be fun at parties.

[Wonkie]

Charlottesville was an example of a well poisoning honey pot. Many people from the right warned against it. It was a trap from the start. CIA definitely got into the alt right to quell and subvert the movement. In fact a great majority of posts on 4chan right now are intelligence communities pushing alt right where they want them to go.

Same old song and dance. Nation states are a messy business.

[Teppler]

Holocaust denial and crisis actors, you must be fun at parties.

Are we going to pretend like the CIA and other intelligence agencies aren't 100% confirmed to be involved in covert regime changes around the world consistently? And you don't think they tweak with what's happening in their back yard? Come on, let's not be delusional.

[Horza]

I'm sure that 4chan is a real hub for covert regime change.

[Teppler]

I'm sure that 4chan is a real hub for covert regime change.

Joke all you want but those spicy memes definitely had an effect in 2016.

[Wonkie]

I'm sure that 4chan is a real hub for covert regime change.

that parts true though. the online is all monitored, including this forum. i've been trying to get a date with our agent for months, but she's busy drinking wine with her cats.

[Jimjam]

This thread has open my eyes. Brexit is just another US sponsored landgrab regime change marketed under the facade of exporting 'freedom'.

[Teppler]

This thread has open my eyes. Brexit is just another US sponsored landgrab regime change marketed under the facade of exporting 'freedom'.

What Brexit? It's not happening. Remember? Your elites said no after telling the common peasants they could vote on it.

[Jimjam]

I'm just gonna come out and admit I'm a privately educated multinational land owner and property investor from a line of millionaires and the commoners shouldn't be involved in decision making beyond electing their representative.

You've revealed my hand.

[Teppler]

Okay but I definitely never accused or insinuated you being anything more than a common idiot.

[Jimjam]

As a common idiot: that went way over my head. I thought we were having an innocent QnA conversation. Thank you for being explicit.

[Wonkie]

I'm just gonna come out and admit I'm a privately educated multinational land owner and property investor from a line of millionaires and the commoners shouldn't be involved in decision making beyond electing their representative.

You've revealed my hand.

The Right Honorable Duke Jimjam of Thicket and Vale

[aaezil]

Imagine a holocaust denier mass posting on an elf forum lul

[Jimjam]

Duke of Kithicor, title as bestowed by the ultimate authority on all halfling affairs* Filbus.

* particularly those involving Sweetcookie or Mrs Gubbins.

[Horza]

Spain will remove rights for British residents if Spaniards living in the U.K. do not receive equal treatment. (https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/23/inenglish/1569214269_989612.html)

The Spanish government has passed legislation in order to protect the rights of the 365,967 Britons who are officially resident in the country, but is yet to see similar mechanisms put in place in the United Kingdom for the Spaniards who have made that country their home.

“We have told them that our royal decree will ensure that everything remains the same in the case of a no-deal Brexit,” said Luis Marco Aguiriano, Spain’s secretary of state for the EU, and who took part in the meeting with the British minister last Thursday. “But for that, reciprocity is necessary."

[Wonkie]

Teppler would you like to know a secret?

gilgalad was an elven King

[Horza]

Imagine a holocaust denier mass posting on an elf forum lul

#disinfectingfromtyphus

[Teppler]

Imagine a holocaust denier mass posting on an elf forum lul

You have a 2nd grade hand out understanding of WW2 and Hitler. That's why the only thing you can do in this discussion is hurl an insult at me. You don't belong in any sort of a discussion about it. Study up and come back. Maybe you'll have something else to say besides one of the bottom two levels of this-

https://bigthink-img.rbl.ms/simage/https%3A%2F%2Fassets.rbl.ms%2F18411389%2F980x.jpg/2000%2C2000/lPkOOxL2IfhS59oC/img.jpg

[Teppler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7u0xxo2ik

[Wonkie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b7u0xxo2ik

Norm is such a shit.

I love him.

[Teppler]

We all do.

[Thrombosis]

So this morning will be interesting, will the Supreme Court uphold the law and confirm that parliament was legally prorogued, or be the enemies of the people and aid the establishment in thwarting the result of a democratic referendum?

[Thrombosis]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497853/National-Crime-Agency-clears-Leave-EU-Arron-Banks.html

National Crime Agency finds no evidence of criminal activity by Arron Banks despite remoaner establishment smears.

[Teppler]

One problem England has is that they’ve gotten to the point where the law has been twisted so much to support various groups, they’ve forgotten a Democrat rule by law.

Should be clear that the UK is not a sovereign nation but the EU has crowned itself its ruler.

The plebs are divided along nationalist and communist dividing lines. Those people should of never allowed their government to take their guns... why should politicians and bankers ever do what the will of the people desire if the people aren’t strong enough to pressure them in some way?