<Brexit>

[Thrombosis]

Should be clear that the UK is not a sovereign nation but the EU has crowned itself its ruler.

I think that is clear, that's why 17.4 million of us voted to Leave the EU.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497911/Supreme-Court-delivers-ruling-Boris-Johnson-broke-law.html

Unsurprisingly the Supreme Court has chosen to be the enemies of the people and thwart the democratic will of the people. Green can't come soon enough, I need something to take my mind of this sad state of affairs.

[Domo]

I think that is clear, that's why 17.4 million of us voted to Leave the EU.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497911/Supreme-Court-delivers-ruling-Boris-Johnson-broke-law.html

Unsurprisingly the Supreme Court has chosen to be the enemies of the people and thwart the democratic will of the people. Green can't come soon enough, I need something to take my mind of this sad state of affairs.

Ive been told that many people who voted for Brexit, voted also for a Brexit with a trade deal to the EU.
I think even most politicans of the Brexit campaign said that it would be a stupid idea to leave the EU without having a deal for the single market etc.

So yeah, the Brexit became one big shitshow from my point of view.
Nobody will be really happy, whatever the final outcome will be.


Great Britain should take their time and work on a solid Brexit plan before invoken Article 50. But now we are here.

[Teppler]

Ive been told that many people who voted for Brexit, voted also for a Brexit with a trade deal to the EU.
I think even most politicans of the Brexit campaign said that it would be a stupid idea to leave the EU without having a deal for the single market etc.

So yeah, the Brexit became one big shitshow from my point of view.
Nobody will be really happy, whatever the final outcome will be.


Great Britain should take their time and work on a solid Brexit plan before invoken Article 50. But now we are here.

Sorry but the vote wasn’t Brexit - if “insert random goalpost moving condition here”

Stop subverting your people’s democratic will with this garbage.

[Thrombosis]

Ive been told that many people who voted for Brexit, voted also for a Brexit with a trade deal to the EU.
I think even most politicans of the Brexit campaign said that it would be a stupid idea to leave the EU without having a deal for the single market etc.

So yeah, the Brexit became one big shitshow from my point of view.
Nobody will be really happy, whatever the final outcome will be.


Great Britain should take their time and work on a solid Brexit plan before invoken Article 50. But now we are here.

The question in the referendum was whether we wanted to remain or Leave, leave with a deal wasn't on the ballot paper and rightly so since a deal wasn' in the government's gift to deliver. Could you imagine if there was a "Leave with a deal" result in the referendum? The EU would have come up with something even worse than we have at the moment. The only sensible plan is the one we have now; give us a deal parliament can accept or we leave without a deal. Unfortunately the establishment don't like that as it might actually mean delivering on the result of the referendum.

It was made quite clear, by the Prime Minister of the day and others, that after Article 50 was invoked we had two years to negotiate a deal and after that we were out on WTO terms. The government took 9 months to come up with a plan, more than enough time to come up with a good one. Unfortunately it wasn't and it seems that our government can't do negotiation any more - not exactly a surprise because while we've been in the EU, bureaucrats in Brussels negotiate do our negotiation for us (with zero accountability of course).

[Domo]

From my point of view its sad that GB want to leave the EU. The EU is not perfect, but it made us (GB included) stronger on the worldstage.

However, GB voted out, fine, but I really dont understand why GB had to invoke Article 50 so fast.

Oh well, at laest one thing all Britains and EU citizens have in common, we all want that this Brexit bullshit gets over. The one way or another.

Hope the Brexit or a 2nd referendum is done at the end of teh year.

[Thrombosis]

https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1176497397800849410

EU demanding £17bn from the UK now for 2020. Why wouldn't they? With their puppets controlling the UK parliament they could increase that figure tenfold and they'd still vote for it.

[Teppler]

From my point of view its sad that GB want to leave the EU. The EU is not perfect, but it made us (GB included) stronger on the worldstage.

However, GB voted out, fine, but I really dont understand why GB had to invoke Article 50 so fast.

Oh well, at laest one thing all Britains and EU citizens have in common, we all want that this Brexit bullshit gets over. The one way or another.

Hope the Brexit or a 2nd referendum is done at the end of teh year.

Nothing is half as sad as what is happening to the common british people who voted for something and are getting directly fucked by not getting it. How is it possible to have a bleeding heart about the poor innocent EU and not the destruction of anything resembling a voting process and thus democratic rule for the common people in Britain?

[Teppler]

https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1176497397800849410

EU demanding £17bn from the UK now for 2020. Why wouldn't they? With their puppets controlling the UK parliament they could increase that figure tenfold and they'd still vote for it.

Have you noticed that the EU is treating the UK like a hostile foreign nation in these negotiation and not a neighboring friend?

The way the EU is treating UK is some way you expect them to treat a nation with grave human rights violations and repeated aggression like North Korea.

What justification does the EU have not to offer UK good deals that make sense for both parties? If UK isn't a violent human rights violation.... at worst their behavior towards the UK could be considered an act of war. At best, highly aggressive.

EU is trying to make sure their house of cards stays strong. The reality is if Brexit is a success, there will be another nation to move for independence and the EU won't last. They count on exploiting rip off deals between nations.

[Domo]

EU is trying to make sure their house of cards stays strong. The reality is if Brexit is a success, there will be another nation to move for independence ...


Right now its more likely that Scotland will move for independence and leave GB to join the EU.

But who knows what happens in 5 years if we dont even know what will happen in the next 30 days.

Its still sad to see GB go, but the whole Brexit reminded me that the EU (even if not being perfect) is a nice thing to have.

I mean without the EU Europe would be a small fish on the global market, and we all would buy cheap contaminate plastic from china and chlorine chicken from USA.

So yeah, the Brexit made me recognize that I like the EU.

[Horza]

Boris Johnson indicates he may renew attempt to suspend parliament. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/24/boris-johnson-may-renew-attempt-to-suspend-parliament)

Boris Johnson has indicated he could suspend parliament again as he said he “strongly” disagreed with a landmark ruling by Britain’s highest court that his suspension of parliament was unlawful.

Speaking in New York, where he is attending a UN summit, Johnson declined to spell out what he might do following the unanimous finding of the supreme court that the five-week prorogation was “void and of no effect”.

[Horza]

In comes Hitler. He was loved by the people for giving spirited speeches and rallying these down trodden people. He was an economic genius.

Somehow I'm not sure if you understand what an act of war actually is.

[Teppler]

Somehow I'm not sure if you understand what an act of war actually is.

Are you going to delete this post again before I have a chance to respond?

[Horza]

The invasion of Poland marked the beginning of World War II. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland)

[Teppler]

Right now its more likely that Scotland will move for independence and leave GB to join the EU.

But who knows what happens in 5 years if we dont even know what will happen in the next 30 days.

Its still sad to see GB go, but the whole Brexit reminded me that the EU (even if not being perfect) is a nice thing to have.

I mean without the EU Europe would be a small fish on the global market, and we all would buy cheap contaminate plastic from china and chlorine chicken from USA.

So yeah, the Brexit made me recognize that I like the EU.

We're pretty far away from the days of William Wallace brutally fighting for independence huh?. These cucked Scots can't wait to get in line and bend the knee now.

Being a great banking empire isn't all that great. Be a humble people. Have a good sustainable balance sheet. Afford your people individual rights like votes that are actually real. Grow your own food. Have relationships business and otherwise with people in your communities. Avoid the quick and easy path of taking massive loans and debt that will never be repaid. I guarantee if nations do that, their surging rates of anti depressants consumption will fall.

If you have all of this, what could anyone ever take away from this prospering nation?

So you don't want to be a small fish in a big pond. What does being a big fish do for you really? Qualify that please.

[Horza]

That cuck William Wallace fought against the English.

[Teppler]

The invasion of Poland marked the beginning of World War II. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland)

lol you triggered by what happened yesterday?

After Hitler peacefully expelled the Jews from Germany he wanted peace. Global bankers had a problem though. Germany created the blue print of not only how to survive without global zionist banking but Germany became the world super power over night. If Nazi Germany were allowed to stand on it's own without banking, sooner or later another nation would follow and then they all would. With banking being the zionist main power structure, this quickly found it's way to a struggle for existence. The existence of what nazi germany was doing on an economic level was a death sentence for zionist banking.

What's the answer for the bankers? They started caroling a bunch of zionist banking nations like the USA. Zionist nations built up aggressive forces surrounding Germany. If Germany did not attack Poland, Germany would of been invaded eventually by these forces. They dared Germany to attack through aggressive act and Germany obliged.

[Horza]

After Hitler peacefully expelled the Jews from Germany he wanted peace.

#disinfectingfromtyphus

[Jimjam]

Sorry but the vote wasn’t Brexit - if “insert random goalpost moving condition here”

Stop subverting your people’s democratic will with this garbage.

No deal is subverting the will of the people.

Brexit was sold on the idea that getting trade relationships that exceeded those EU has with Norway, Switzerland, Canada would be the "easiest deal in the world".

JRM himself suggested as part of his leave campaign thr country could put the deal negotiated up to referendum to see if it was favourable to remaining.

Its quite insulting your telling Brits they don't know what was offered to them in the lead up to the referendum vs what is being attempted to be forced through.

[Jimjam]

One problem England has is that they’ve gotten to the point where the law has been twisted so much to support various groups, they’ve forgotten a Democrat rule by law.

Should be clear that the UK is not a sovereign nation but the EU has crowned itself its ruler.

The plebs are divided along nationalist and communist dividing lines. Those people should of never allowed their government to take their guns... why should politicians and bankers ever do what the will of the people desire if the people aren’t strong enough to pressure them in some way?

Ironic that a complaint regarding the EU is a loss of sovereignty causing vulnerability to tyranny; seems the supreme courts actually do have power in this regard.

Honestly, triggering trade/economic crisis and using that crisis to disolve democratic institutions and seize power is a move straight out of the starwars prequel trilogy. Especially getting TM to execute order 66, sorry invoke article 50 early. Empy Palp would be proud, Darth Bojo!

[Horza]

Jimjam, please no! Teppler has already derailed the politics discussion thread with his creepy obsession with Disney and Star Wars.

Don't encourage him.

[Teppler]

No deal is subverting the will of the people.

Brexit was sold on the idea that getting trade relationships that exceeded those EU has with Norway, Switzerland, Canada would be the "easiest deal in the world".

JRM himself suggested as part of his leave campaign thr country could put the deal negotiated up to referendum to see if it was favourable to remaining.

Its quite insulting your telling Brits they don't know what was offered to them in the lead up to the referendum vs what is being attempted to be forced through.

I don't know how I can express how big a piece of shit you are for continuing to portray the situation this way.

How many times do we have to go through this?

What was voted on was Brexit vs no Brexit.

It wasn't No Brexit vs No deal Brexit vs Deal Brexit. Brexit encompasses the potential for deal and no deal.

You're not allowed to create stipulations and random moving goalposts after the results of the vote without showing the complete and utter scam of your supposed democracy. This is what 3rd grade bullies do when things don't go their way.

Ever hear the saying ignorance is not an excuse? And it's not even the people that voted for Brexit saying they were ignorant. In every case it's some anti Brexit piece of shit like Jimjam pushing this idea that the people were too stupid and the elites need to decide for them.

[Jimjam]

I got the campaign leaflets through the door. Did you?

[Teppler]

Why did your elites even offer this vote if it was always in bad faith like this? That's the story I want to know about now. For the parties that are pushing to shut it down now, what were their conversations before the vote? Was it like in America where our establishment kept telling us Trump had less than a 1% chance to win and they just didn't have a sense of urgency because they thought it had no chance?

[Teppler]

Also, wouldn't this be more a failure on the part of the anti Brexit politicians? Isn't it their job to present the potential problems of Brexit and convince people BEFORE the vote?

Ladies and gentlemen this is what you call a moving goalpost.

You win something and all of a sudden the opposition creates stipulations and says 'you didn't really win', 'you gotta do this to really win'. Then they just repeat this over and over and over again. Of course no one has the power to do this unless they have control over the game. Your elites and the establishment. This is an argument for not letting countries take your guns if I've ever seen one.

[Jimjam]

Rather than get bogged down in the details, I think we can agree the leave campaign was much more effective than the remain :D. Leave made better promises than remain's campaign scares 'project fear'. TBH Remain could have focused on publicizing the benefits of being in Europe, but Leave was able to portray that we'd be able to keep all the best bits while cutting away the chaff.

When we actually get round to leaving Europe I guess we'll find out which was right: Leave's promises vs Remain's 'project fear'. Hopefully leave was right, but realistically one would expect the cards to fall somewhere in the middle. Hopefully project fear was wrong!


You got me interested in seeing how the leave campaign was covered vs what is being delivered.

I decided to find coverage of when Boris came out as a leaver.

"Because I want a better deal for the people of this Country. To save them money and to take back control"

I was particularly interested in the end of his talk.

https://youtu.be/aRjl4biSmZ4?t=338 (5:38 if the time stamp glitches)

"I think it is so important to focus on the question at hand: Is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe as it currently is, or is there a way that we could get a better deal?"

The way I recall it, no deal was something everyone assured would not happen. It was all about getting a better deal that would restore British Democracy and some control to the people of this country (sorry for taking words out your mouth again Bojo).

The interesting thing, is before this clip Bojo had always been a Europhile (and something he openly admits in the clip). He is great at hiding his mercenary nature. Just before the timestamp I showed you, he retorts that his flip on Europhile/Eurosceptic was not part of an attempt to manoeuvre into leadership of the conservative party.

I guess the way things have ended up is somewhat a happy accident for him then? Regardless, I hope he focuses on the question at hand, is there a way to get a better deal or is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe.

[Domo]

Boris Johnson told to resign following Supreme Court defeat and become the 'shortest-serving prime minister ever' (https://www.businessinsider.de/boris-johnson-told-resign-as-prime-minister-supreme-court-verdict-2019-9?utm)

[Jimjam]

Why did your elites even offer this vote if it was always in bad faith like this? That's the story I want to know about now. For the parties that are pushing to shut it down now, what were their conversations before the vote? Was it like in America where our establishment kept telling us Trump had less than a 1% chance to win and they just didn't have a sense of urgency because they thought it had no chance?



While composing my previous post, these videos were suggested to follow on:

David Cameron's Plans For The EU Referendum | This Morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBan3Esn5R0


David Cameron on His Regrets Over the Referendum | This Morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjJ28VRY0tc

I didn't watch them, one 3 year old political video was sufficient for the moment. I prefer me my 20 year old elf sims!

[Jimjam]

Boris Johnson told to resign following Supreme Court defeat and become the 'shortest-serving prime minister ever' (https://www.businessinsider.de/boris-johnson-told-resign-as-prime-minister-supreme-court-verdict-2019-9?utm)

Clickbait!

Of course his opponents are calling for him to resign! It was not mandated by the Supreme Court though.

and I say cickbait as someone who isn't a fan of Bojo as a politician, let alone PM.

[Teppler]

Rather than get bogged down in the details, I think we can agree the leave campaign was much more effective than the remain :D. Leave made better promises than remain's campaign scares 'project fear'. TBH Remain could have focused on publicizing the benefits of being in Europe, but Leave was able to portray that we'd be able to keep all the best bits while cutting away the chaff.

When we actually get round to leaving Europe I guess we'll find out which was right: Leave's promises vs Remain's 'project fear'. Hopefully leave was right, but realistically one would expect the cards to fall somewhere in the middle. Hopefully project fear was wrong!


You got me interested in seeing how the leave campaign was covered vs what is being delivered.

I decided to find coverage of when Boris came out as a leaver.

"Because I want a better deal for the people of this Country. To save them money and to take back control"

I was particularly interested in the end of his talk.

https://youtu.be/aRjl4biSmZ4?t=338 (5:38 if the time stamp glitches)

"I think it is so important to focus on the question at hand: Is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe as it currently is, or is there a way that we could get a better deal?"

The way I recall it, no deal was something everyone assured would not happen. It was all about getting a better deal that would restore British Democracy and some control to the people of this country (sorry for taking words out your mouth again Bojo).

The interesting thing, is before this clip Bojo had always been a Europhile (and something he openly admits in the clip). He is great at hiding his mercenary nature. Just before the timestamp I showed you, he retorts that his flip on Europhile/Eurosceptic was not part of an attempt to manoeuvre into leadership of the conservative party.

I guess the way things have ended up is somewhat a happy accident for him then? Regardless, I hope he focuses on the question at hand, is there a way to get a better deal or is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe.

Part of the problem is British non Brexit elites are obviously cozy with the mega EU elites of Europe and they obviously coordinate to put the pro Brexit side in impossible positions so the anti Brexit elites can throw their hands up in the air and say ‘nothing can be done’. Really it’s a lot acting in bad faith and working with the enemy to usurp their common people’s vote.

The way the EU is treating an independent UK is abhorrent. At best you could consider the EUs stance on making things hard for the UK a highly aggressive act against what should be classified as a hostile nation. At worst, the EUs attitude towards developing trade with an independent UK could be an act of war.

What justification does the EU have to treat the UK this way if not to act as rulers and punish the common people for voting wrong?

[Patriam1066]

The Anglosphere has bad leadership all around. A Frenchman in Canada, an obese orange in America, a whore in New Zealand, a game of musical chairs in Australia, and wannabe trump in Britain. Oh, and a gay Hindu in Ireland

I miss Obama and David Cameron

[Domo]

What justification does the EU have to treat the UK this way if not to act as rulers and punish the common people for voting wrong?

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

[Teppler]

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

Because in 2019 everyone trades with everyone. The only people that don't trade together and help each other out are hostile nations. Particularly ones that commit human rights violations regularly. Does that describe UK nations?

For what reason does the EU have to be hostile and not help out the UK when they go independent?

Treating the UK like a bordering friend is standard, not special treatment.

[Jimjam]

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

For me it is EU forbidding UK from prospectively negotiating deals with 3rd parties.

I understand member states can't negotiate special deals with outsiders, but the UK should be able to have deals ready for when Brexit actually happens.

I actually agree with much of Teppler's post 290, awful behaviour all round.

[Domo]

Because in 2019 everyone trades with everyone. The only people that don't trade together and help each other out are hostile nations. Particularly ones that commit human rights violations regularly. Does that describe UK nations?

For what reason does the EU have to be hostile and not help out the UK when they go independent?

Treating the UK like a bordering friend is standard, not special treatment.


I dont know about other countrys, but the EU dont trade with everyone. It was that way before Brexit already. And I belive the UK knew this also before the Brexit.

The EU set up some standarts (regulations) to protect their citizens.
Like, you are not allowed to sell products in the EU which use cheap and harmful plastic.
What guarantee does the EU have that the UK are not buying cheap plastic from China and re-sell it in the EU?


Trade-deals are way more complex than you can imagine. This is not some kind of computergame like Civilization 6 where you make a deal by doing 10 clicks.


And btw, the EU really likes to have a trade-deal with the UK, but it wont change their rules for the UK. It will treat the UK the same way they treat other non-EU countrys who like to join the singelmarket ( like Norway, Iceland, Switzerland etc.)
For me it sounds fair.

[Teppler]

I dont know about other countrys, but the EU dont trade with everyone. It was that way before Brexit already. And I belive the UK knew this also before the Brexit.

The EU set up some standarts (regulations) to protect their citizens.
Like, you are not allowed to sell products in the EU which use cheap and harmful plastic.
What guarantee does the EU have that the UK are not buying cheap plastic from China and re-sell it in the EU?


Trade-deals are way more complex than you can imagine. This is not some kind of computergame like Civilization 6 where you make a deal by doing 10 clicks.


And btw, the EU really likes to have a trade-deal with the UK, but it wont change their rules for the UK. It will treat the UK the same way they treat other non-EU countrys who like to join the singelmarket ( like Norway, Iceland, Switzerland etc.)
For me it sounds fair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_Europe an_Union

Look at the first two nations. Are they part of the European Union?

If there's a struggling, friendly nation next to the EU what should the EU do as a friend?

The rhetoric I heard was to make things as difficult as possible for the UK which is fucked up.

[Domo]

china and usa dont have access to the EU single market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market). they do have trade arrangements with the EU, thats it.

This will be of course a option for the UK, but it will take some time until such trade-deal is done. And even if the EU and the UK make a trade arrangement, then the UK will be treaten same as the other non-EU partners; means that goods from the UK will be controlled at border, and maybe even a trade-tax be put on the goods.
But the worst part will be that it will all take longer until the goods arrive at their final destination.

For example: Lets say the UK is selling 100 tons of meat to the EU. The meat will be put in cooling containers so it dont spoils, than brought to a Europen harbor (Rotterdam for example). And then it will maybe take 2-3 extra days until the EU inspectors give the green light. (maybe even longer?)

So lets say in our easy example the UK is selling their meat for 1000€ per ton, but because the shipment takes now 2days+ longer the price increases to 1100€ per ton.
And now lets also put a 10% tax on non-EU goods, so the ton will cost you now 1210€ per ton.

And who do you think will pay the diffrence now? the customer of course. But not every customer will accept it. Which means that the UK will sell at the end less goods, make less money, people will lose their jobs and so on.

Same thing will happen on the EU side of course. The EU will sell less goods to the UK, will make less money, lose jobs etc.

[Teppler]

china and usa dont have access to the EU single market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market). they do have trade arrangements with the EU, thats it.

This will be of course a option for the UK, but it will take some time until such trade-deal is done. And even if the EU and the UK make a trade arrangement, then the UK will be treaten same as the other non-EU partners; means that goods from the UK will be controlled at border, and maybe even a trade-tax be put on the goods.
But the worst part will be that it will all take longer until the goods arrive at their final destination.

For example: Lets say the UK is selling 100 tons of meat to the EU. The meat will be put in cooling containers so it dont spoils, than brought to a Europen harbor (Rotterdam for example). And then it will maybe take 2-3 extra days until the EU inspectors give the green light. (maybe even longer?)

So lets say in our easy example the UK is selling their meat for 1000€ per ton, but because the shipment takes now 2days+ longer the price increases to 1100€ per ton.
And now lets also put a 10% tax on non-EU goods, so the ton will cost you now 1210€ per ton.

And who do you think will pay the diffrence now? the customer of course. But not every customer will accept it. Which means that the UK will sell at the end less goods, make less money, people will lose their jobs and so on.

Same thing will happen on the EU side of course. The EU will sell less goods to the UK, will make less money, lose jobs etc.

The UK will find a way. We heard the same doom and gloom after Trump was elected. We redid trade deals where we were getting ripped off and UK will do the same. There's new trade deals to make. For example, the US will offer great trade deals because I know we want to take a bite out of the EU. Keep in mind there are great funds trying to push doom and gloom on you about Brexit. Independence and freedom is a great thing. UK is an amazing country with a rich history. Don't fuck this up.

https://sublimeclipclops.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/grant-family-blog-header-1.jpg

[Domo]

The UK will find a way. We heard the same doom and gloom after Trump was elected. We redid trade deals where we were getting ripped off and UK will do the same. There's new trade deals to make. For example, the US will offer great trade deals because I know we want to take a bite out of the EU. Keep in mind there are great funds trying to push doom and gloom on you about Brexit. Independence and freedom is a great thing. UK is an amazing country with a rich history. Don't fuck this up.

https://sublimeclipclops.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/grant-family-blog-header-1.jpg

I am sure the US will offer "great deals" to the UK (under their conditions). But at the end, the UK will lose money and jobs.
The UK wont go bankcrupt or anythink like that, but they will make for sure less money than they do now.
Simple as that.

[Teppler]

I am sure the US will offer "great deals" to the UK (under their conditions). But at the end, the UK will lose money and jobs.
The UK wont go bankcrupt or anythink like that, but they will make for sure less money than they do now.
Simple as that.

We heard that too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/donald-trumps-economy/481743/

[Domo]

did I say anywhere that the brexit will destroy the UK or its market?

So calm down little Keyboard Paladin :)

[Teppler]

did I say anywhere that the brexit will destroy the UK or its market?

So calm down little Keyboard Paladin :)

You're pro Brexit which makes you the enemy. I don't like the arguments you present like the idea the EU isn't doing anything wrong to the UK with their treatment and attitude. I think that's wrong and comes from evil roots. I've explained my positions.

[Horza]

You're... the enemy. I don't like the arguments you present. I think that's wrong and comes from evil roots. I've explained my positions.

American Evangelicals.

[Domo]

I am not pro Brexit. I never wanted the Brexit. I would even support a 2nd referendum etc.
I just want it to be over, like almost every pro or anti Brexit person.
And the EU is treating the UK as they treat every other nation, not because they choice to, simply because thats the EU law. And this law was written way before Brexit...together with the UK.
The EU told the UK what will happen as soon they invoke Article 50. The UK had all the time they need to make a solid Brexit plan before invoking Article 50, but they choice to invoke Article 50 and then think about a Brexit plan. Looks like its more complicated than the Brexiters though, and now people like you cry that its unfair etc.?

Thats very hypocritical.

Its like the UK is leaving a apartment house but still like to have access to the apartments swimming pool.

A deal is a deal. The UK wants out, its sad but you free to go. But if ya still like to have access to the swimming pool, ya will have to pay your part as everyone else too.

[Teppler]

I am not pro Brexit. I never wanted the Brexit. I would even support a 2nd referendum etc.
I just want it to be over, like almost every pro or anti Brexit person.
And the EU is treating the UK as they treat every other nation, not because they choice to, simply because thats the EU law. And this law was written way before Brexit...together with the UK.
The EU told the UK what will happen as soon they invoke Article 50. The UK had all the time they need to make a solid Brexit plan before invoking Article 50, but they choice to invoke Article 50 and then think about a Brexit plan. Looks like its more complicated than the Brexiters though, and now people like you cry that its unfair etc.?

Thats very hypocritical.

Its like the UK is leaving a apartment house but still like to have access to the apartments swimming pool.

A deal is a deal. The UK wants out, its sad but you free to go. But if ya still like to have access to the swimming pool, ya will have to pay your part as everyone else too.

Are we considering all the bad faith acting and pressures EU elites put on the UK politicians?

Are we considering that UK politicians are most likely not working within the will of the people and there's motive to muck up the works?

Funny how these dominoes fall for the EU and suddenly these politicians are completely inept at the worst time when it comes to serving the people. Not at all exploitable for these top elites.

You explained how UK leaving is bad for the EU. Would you say it's true or not the EU would like to make an example of the UK to show the rest of the world, it wouldn't be good to leave.

[Domo]

You explained how UK leaving is bad for the EU. Would you say it's true or not the EU would like to make an example of the UK to show the rest of the world, it wouldn't be good to leave.

I would say the UK showed the other 27 EU members how not to leave.

I belive that the UK shoot themself in the foot. (on world stage)
Not because they voted for Brexit, but because they invoked Article 50 without having a solid Brexit plan. The UK should simply use 2, 3 or even 10 years to work on a solid Brexit plan before invoking Artikle 50,


So if you ask me if the EU want to make example out of the UK I have to say no, because if the EU wanted to make an example out of the UK then the EU would insist that the Brexit is done within 2 years after UK invoked Article 50 and wouldn`t give the UK a delay ( which they got).

[Teppler]

I would say the UK showed the other 27 EU members how not to leave.

I belive that the UK shoot themself in the foot. (on world stage)
Not because they voted for Brexit, but because they invoked Article 50 without having a solid Brexit plan. The UK should simply use 2, 3 or even 10 years to work on a solid Brexit plan before invoking Artikle 50,


So if you ask me if the EU want to make example out of the UK I have to say no, because if the EU wanted to make an example out of the UK then the EU would insist that the Brexit is done within 2 years after UK invoked Article 50 and wouldn`t give the UK a delay ( which they got).

I always get curious about how people like you build logical structures in your mind.

So let's consider Brexit is bad for the EU which you've explained. Would you actually suggest the giant finance people involved in the EU are simply neutral and standing aside while they watch UK politicians conveniently fudge up Brexit? That there's no leaning whatsoever on UK politicians? That there's no advertising dollars whatsoever coming from EU promoting the failures of Brexit? It looks to me like you are suggesting there's even no rhetoric about anything from the EU about painting Brexit in any negative light.

I know that's not true though. I'm looking at an article right now with shitty comments from Merkel.

It's also not hard to see how much anti Brexit propaganda is furiously printed by your establishment media along the EU states.

[Domo]

I dont know what you`re reading, but I have a feeling that it goes to the Alex Jones direction huh?

[Teppler]

I dont know what you`re reading, but I have a feeling that it goes to the Alex Jones direction huh?

Try googling 'anti Brexit propaganda'.

I'm curious what you get. I get hundreds of results of how Pro Brexit tricked and exploited/scared/lied to voters. A few links to one story about children accusing a teacher of anti brexit propaganda.

There's all these claims about pro Brexit trickery and exploitation and false claims and the elites are exploiting but where the fuck is it? Them and you are telling me it's an epidemic but from my POV it's totally and completely the other way. Fear mongering via intense media propaganda from anti Brexit elites, after the fact, that honestly looks like they are winning a power struggle.

[Domo]

Dude, its the year 2019. If you google "Penis in mixer" you will probaly find 100 pages. (I wont google it to test it!)

The Internet is a nice tool to share Knowledge...but you can share also a lot of bullshit (a.k.a. fake-news) and find like-minded people. How do you think the flat-earth-group got build. The Internet.

[Wonkie]

Dude, its the year 2019. If you google "Penis in mixer" you will probaly find 100 pages. (I wont google it to test it!)

The Internet is a nice tool to share Knowledge...but you can share also a lot of bullshit (a.k.a. fake-news) and find like-minded people. How do you think the flat-earth-group got build. The Internet.

flat earth theory existed waaaaaaaaaay before the internet. it started as a religious thing. we have always been retarded.

[Domo]

fair point. Then change "flat-earth-group" in "chemtrails" or into "Anti-Vaxxing" in my example.

You find thousands of pages if you google " vaxxing bad", so I guess it must be true eh?

[Wonkie]

fair point. Then change "flat-earth-group" in "chemtrails" or into "Anti-Vaxxing" in my example.

You find thousands of pages if you google " vaxxing bad", so I guess it must be true eh?

a lot of sites wear out free speech like a three dollar whore, in search of ad views.

nothing wrong with it, it's constitutional! :)

[Horza]

Don't joke about that, vaccinations caused Teppler's autism.

[feniin]

Don't joke about that, vaccinations caused Teppler's autism.

Pretty sure it was Tide pods and jenkem.

[Jimjam]

Try googling 'anti Brexit propaganda'.

I'm curious what you get. I get hundreds of results of how Pro Brexit tricked and exploited/scared/lied to voters. A few links to one story about children accusing a teacher of anti brexit propaganda.

There's all these claims about pro Brexit trickery and exploitation and false claims and the elites are exploiting but where the fuck is it? Them and you are telling me it's an epidemic but from my POV it's totally and completely the other way. Fear mongering via intense media propaganda from anti Brexit elites, after the fact, that honestly looks like they are winning a power struggle.

Speaking of propaganda, we've had decades of Europhobic propaganda, fake news and scapegoating from politicians - blaming their own failures and deviancies on the EU. People with a lot of influence have trying to axe the UK from the EU for a long time. Murdoch isn't exactly spiderman, you know? The pendulum swings both ways.

[Thrombosis]

EU tells Starbucks it doesn't need to pay $33m in back taxes - tax avoidance is what the EU was set up for (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497973/European-court-rejects-EU-order-Starbucks-pay-33million-taxes.html?offset=10&max=100&jumpTo=comment-465788633#comment-465788633)

With all the excitement of yesterday, it was perhaps understandable that the EU chose to announce that Starbucks' dodgy tax arragement are all perfectly fine and legal under EU law.

[Teppler]

Speaking of propaganda, we've had decades of Europhobic propaganda, fake news and scapegoating from politicians - blaming their own failures and deviancies on the EU. People with a lot of influence have trying to axe the UK from the EU for a long time. Murdoch isn't exactly spiderman, you know? The pendulum swings both ways.

In politics, the pendulum does not swing both ways. I’ve said it before in this topic, Republicans exist to be losers to democrats and eventually give up everything they are supposed to conserve. It’s true all over the world. And every time this happens in history it gets to a level where there’s an economic meltdown or a giant war. I’m sure lots of people were expecting the pendulum to eventually swing back the other way with Rome. The big time elites kept expanding and the reasons were for wealth generation and so them and their families didn’t need to work. It’s the same banker elites taking a cut from the EU rotting it out like elites did with Rome.

Yes I’m aware Brexit has influence for it. If Brexit had no support, it wouldn’t be a thing. Obviously it has influencers. What you aren’t understanding is the weight of the biggest elites of the world goes behind EU interests while in comparison a couple small time nationalist influencers are preaching about why Brexit is good, and rightfully so.

I’m watching what the EU powers are doing with their propaganda.

They are selling an intense disinformation campaign through their media and politicians throughout the EU and the ones they can lean on in the UK. Part of this very disinformation campaign is presenting the other side, which has no where near as many funds or influence as the whole EU, as doing the corrupt things they are actually doing.

The equivalent to what EU doing is farting in a crowded room and then blame it on someone they want to take the fall. Say this phrase with me ‘well poisoning’. When this happens it means there’s a rot of bad faith actors in your government the people eventually need to deal with. In past times, this traditionally when politicians would hang.

[Domo]

@Teppler
funny that you hate the "elite" but still do what they want you to do.

Dark money is pushing for a no-deal Brexit. Who is behind it? (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/13/dark-money-hard-brexit-targeted-ads-facebook)

[Teppler]

The elites I fight are higher level. Consider the size and scope comparison of UK vs EU. There you have your scale. #perspective

[Domo]

lol

[Teppler]

How would false brexit propaganda be allowed to exist, on a logical level, when you consider the anti Brexit side has about 100x the funds of pro Brexit? What is EUs gdp vs UKs gdp? When you have that many funds you own the politicians too. At that point the only answer should be grass root campaigns and the people themselves voting things through. Oh oops... well has been been poisoned.

[Teppler]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning

[Jimjam]

In politics, the pendulum does not swing both ways. I’ve said it before in this topic, Republicans exist to be losers to democrats and eventually give up everything they are supposed to conserve. It’s true all over the world. And every time this happens in history it gets to a level where there’s an economic meltdown or a giant war. I’m sure lots of people were expecting the pendulum to eventually swing back the other way with Rome. The big time elites kept expanding and the reasons were for wealth generation and so them and their families didn’t need to work. It’s the same banker elites taking a cut from the EU rotting it out like elites did with Rome.

Yes I’m aware Brexit has influence for it. If Brexit had no support, it wouldn’t be a thing. Obviously it has influencers. What you aren’t understanding is the weight of the biggest elites of the world goes behind EU interests while in comparison a couple small time nationalist influencers are preaching about why Brexit is good, and rightfully so.

I’m watching what the EU powers are doing with their propaganda.

They are selling an intense disinformation campaign through their media and politicians throughout the EU and the ones they can lean on in the UK. Part of this very disinformation campaign is presenting the other side, which has no where near as many funds or influence as the whole EU, as doing the corrupt things they are actually doing.

The equivalent to what EU doing is farting in a crowded room and then blame it on someone they want to take the fall. Say this phrase with me ‘well poisoning’. When this happens it means there’s a rot of bad faith actors in your government the people eventually need to deal with. In past times, this traditionally when politicians would hang.

You should watch the video I linked. You probably should have the same opinion as Boris there; ideally Britain would be part of a reformed EU (return democracy, remove corruption), but as he saw this as currently implausible it must leave and find a better deal.

[Jimjam]

How would false brexit propaganda be allowed to exist, on a logical level, when you consider the anti Brexit side has about 100x the funds of pro Brexit? What is EUs gdp vs UKs gdp? When you have that many funds you own the politicians too. At that point the only answer should be grass root campaigns and the people themselves voting things through. Oh oops... well has been been poisoned.

Well, there are several court cases open about false Brexit propaganda, so as we can see it is trying to be stopped, but retrospectively and too late to effect the referendum.

[Thrombosis]

@Teppler
funny that you hate the "elite" but still do what they want you to do.

Dark money is pushing for a no-deal Brexit. Who is behind it? (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/13/dark-money-hard-brexit-targeted-ads-facebook)

This conspiracy theory is dead. Earlier this week the UK's National Crime Agency (equivalent to FBI) found that there was no evidence that Leave.EU or Arron Banks committed any crimes and dropped the investigation. If you want to talk about dark money then look into who is funding Gina Miller's legal actions.

[Jimjam]

oh wow, in that case my previous post should be rescinded?

[Teppler]

Well, there are several court cases open about false Brexit propaganda, so as we can see it is trying to be stopped, but retrospectively and too late to effect the referendum.

You guys are kind of like the US then when we vote for things our establishment doesn't want. They start leaning on these wacko judges to go outside the constitution or have some real obscure interpretation of it. I noticed you didn't mention that there are court cases about anti-Brexit propaganda.

[Teppler]

You should watch the video I linked. You probably should have the same opinion as Boris there; ideally Britain would be part of a reformed EU (return democracy, remove corruption), but as he saw this as currently implausible it must leave and find a better deal.

Sure. Next I'll get my news on pot from 'Reefer Madness'.

[Teppler]

You should watch the video I linked. You probably should have the same opinion as Boris there; ideally Britain would be part of a reformed EU (return democracy, remove corruption), but as he saw this as currently implausible it must leave and find a better deal.

You have too a naive view of who is behind the EU. They don't respect the common person. A super elite from Brussels cares nothing for the low class of another country.

You know who respects your common people even the low class? Genuine nationalist leaders of your own countries.

[Jimjam]

Mate, its Boris Johnson speaking for himself and his reasons for siding with leave in 2016. It's not an interview, just literally his own statement.

It's from the horses mouth.

He is current PM now and trying to force through no deal. Not everyone is playing 4D chess; I linked it to you because I thought it would be of interest.

Unless you think it is a stooge / fake?

[Domo]

You know who respects your common people even the low class? Genuine nationalist leaders of your own countries.

oh fuck me...

I am out

[Jimjam]

oh fuck me...

I am out

I'm struggling to continue give you the benefit of the doubt too, Teppler.

Not sure how you can dismissively 'fake news' BJ's own words on one hand and then call him a nationalist leader messiah on the other.

I'm going to extend my last thread of sympathy and choose to believe you didn't understand that the Boris Johnson I mentioned linked in that video is the same guy as who is the current leader of UK and Brexit.

[Teppler]

oh fuck me...

I am out

So sad that love and pride in ones own country is such a naughty thing in Europe.

Some might consider a connection between EU massive funds, anti nationalist propaganda and anti Brexit propaganda being flooded in EU states.

[Teppler]

I'm struggling to continue give you the benefit of the doubt too, Teppler.

Not sure how you can dismissively 'fake news' BJ's own words on one hand and then call him a nationalist leader messiah on the other.

I'm going to extend my last thread of sympathy and choose to believe you didn't understand that the Boris Johnson I mentioned linked in that video is the same guy as who is the current leader of UK and Brexit.

I don't need your argument. GTFO out of discussion with me if you don't like it. I'm sure you have a lot of interesting and valuable discussions going forward about the valid merits of Brexit from your elite anti Brexit anti common people position. You keep doing you. I'll keep with my perspective of what's happening. I'll continue to have fun clowning on your ridiculous positions too while I cry on the inside about the state of the world.

[Jimjam]

I'm not really offering much in the way of argument, rather boots on the field experience.

You should watch the link to Boris Johnsons announcement of supporting leave. You seem to be a fan of him, it will interest you.

[Horza]

You guys are trying to debate a bonafide Nazi.

#disinfectingfromtyphus

[Horza]

Boris Johnson says “of course we will obey the law, and we will come out of the EU on October 31.” (https://www.politico.eu/article/johnson-vows-to-obey-law-but-still-make-brexit-happen-in-october/)

When asked again whether he is "looking for a way around the law" to make sure the UK leaves the EU even if there's no deal, Johnson responded: "Well, you know those are your words. What we're going to do is come out on 31 October, deal or no deal."

[Jimjam]

Do you guys have the TV show 'Deal or No Deal' in the States. I'll be honest, we loved the game so much we've turned it into our national past time.

But what does the banker have to say?

[Thrombosis]

Boris and Attorney General Geoffrey Cox in good form in parliament tonight. I think plenty of remoaner MPs will be wishing that parliament was still prorogued tonight :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp865xUXMrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcHHJKqAEc

Calling the Benn amendment the Surrender Act seems to be causing plenty of butthurt :D https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1176947508951572482

[Horza]

An MP makes an emotional plea to tone down the language - citing death of her friend Jo Cox. The prime minister responds saying “humbug”. (https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1176936614393720832)

[Thrombosis]

An MP makes an emotional plea to tone down the language - citing death of her friend Jo Cox. The prime minister responds saying “humbug”. (https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1176936614393720832)

Past few days we've seen MPs call Boris Johnson a fascist, a nazi, a dictator behind a coup. The official slogan of the LibDem party is "B*****ks to Brexit". Leave voters are constantly called racist, thick, far right, liars, uneducated. All of these are seemingly OK, but when the PM says 'humbug' it's totally unacceptable.

[Horza]

A failed coup, perhaps.

[Teppler]

Past few days we've seen MPs call Boris Johnson a fascist, a nazi, a dictator behind a coup. The official slogan of the LibDem party is "B*****ks to Brexit". Leave voters are constantly called racist, thick, far right, liars, uneducated. All of these are seemingly OK, but when the PM says 'humbug' it's totally unacceptable.

I'm so glad these people are stopping propaganda from being spread.

[Wonkie]

Past few days we've seen MPs call Boris Johnson a fascist, a nazi, a dictator behind a coup. The official slogan of the LibDem party is "B*****ks to Brexit". Leave voters are constantly called racist, thick, far right, liars, uneducated. All of these are seemingly OK, but when the PM says 'humbug' it's totally unacceptable.

There is a difference between good things and bad things

[Teppler]

There is a difference between good things and bad things

Lets just be thankful the MP thought police are able to distinguish for us.

[Wonkie]

Lets just be thankful the MP thought police are able to distinguish for us.

I'm just a down home average Joe thought police no sir no fancy ribbons here

[Teppler]

I'm just a down home average Joe thought police no sir no fancy ribbons here

I'm not referring to you, you don't matter.

[Wonkie]

I'm not referring to you, you don't matter.

Wow don't oppress my thoughts dude. How dare you.

[Jimjam]

Past few days we've seen MPs call Boris Johnson a fascist, a nazi, a dictator behind a coup. The official slogan of the LibDem party is "B*****ks to Brexit". Leave voters are constantly called racist, thick, far right, liars, uneducated. All of these are seemingly OK, but when the PM says 'humbug' it's totally unacceptable.

You're supporting someone being so dissmissive of their colleagues murder? Mega yikes! They worked together in the same room.

It's not the word 'humbug' that caused the outcry.

[Thrombosis]

It's not the word 'humbug' that caused the outcry.

Yeah, it's the fact we finally have a Prime Minister who is actually trying to implement the result of a democratic referendum.

[Domo]

Assholes appears for idiots as Strong Man

And Boris is an asshole.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Past few days we've seen MPs call Boris Johnson a fascist, a nazi, a dictator behind a coup. The official slogan of the LibDem party is "B*****ks to Brexit". Leave voters are constantly called racist, thick, far right, liars, uneducated. All of these are seemingly OK, but when the PM says 'humbug' it's totally unacceptable.

I must of missed that. Which MP called him a nazi or a facist? >_>

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Yeah, it's the fact we finally have a Prime Minister who is actually trying to implement the result of a democratic referendum.

P.S Democracy is (like it or not) mean you can change your mind. Especially when so much of the original campaign was based on mistruths (like the legendary NHS bus claim)

Case in point:

<Me> Would you like a cup of coffee?
<You> Sure!
<Me> Heres your cup of coffee, sorry its actually full of faeces though
<You> Woah there i dont want that
<Me> Sorry chum you said you did want that. You cant go back on your want.
<You> I changed my mind based on new information

See? Perfectly reasonable.

Ah well the only real winners if we come out the EU are the toffs with tons of money offshore evading tax who will continue to evade because we wont have to abide by EU Tax law.

<GASP> It's almost like there is a motive

[Teppler]

P.S Democracy is (like it or not) mean you can change your mind. Especially when so much of the original campaign was based on mistruths (like the legendary NHS bus claim)

Case in point:

<Me> Would you like a cup of coffee?
<You> Sure!
<Me> Heres your cup of coffee, sorry its actually full of faeces though
<You> Woah there i dont want that
<Me> Sorry chum you said you did want that. You cant go back on your want.
<You> I changed my mind based on new information

See? Perfectly reasonable.

Ah well the only real winners if we come out the EU are the toffs with tons of money offshore evading tax who will continue to evade because we wont have to abide by EU Tax law.

<GASP> It's almost like there is a motive

The idea of political leaders not carrying out what was voted on is the exact opposite of democracy. WTF. What you refer to is a straight up subversion of democracy.

[Zeboim]

There's a reason why we vote on our political leaders periodically.

Brexit was voted for how many years ago? And what people actually voted for with the information at the time hasn't been remotely delivered. Time for a second opinion.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

There's a reason why we vote on our political leaders periodically.

Brexit was voted for how many years ago? And what people actually voted for with the information at the time hasn't been remotely delivered. Time for a second opinion.

This. This is actual democracy.

An intelligent government can about face on a choice if new evidence comes to light.

In this case that is absolutely what happened. This whole subject isn't even a YES/NO RIGHT/WRONG GOOD/BAD issue. A fair few people voted leave because they thought immigrants were taking more money out of the economy than they contributed (via benefits)

This was debunked. Yet plenty still believe it.

Changing your mind is totally fine. ESPECIALLY when the "facts" you were given were incorrect or misleading. THATS democracy.

Voting then finding out what you were told and the leader saying "haw haw too late now" is Autocracy. Lucky for us we have judges to keep said leader in check.

[Teppler]

There's a reason why we vote on our political leaders periodically.

Brexit was voted for how many years ago? And what people actually voted for with the information at the time hasn't been remotely delivered. Time for a second opinion.

That's not what a 2nd opinion is.

A 2nd opinion is asking someone knowledgeable about what to vote for and why BEFORE the vote happens.

What you are referring to is the shutting down of Brexit, a democratically voted for initiative, by the elites and a re-vote until those damn commoners can vote the 'right' way.

[Teppler]

This. This is actual democracy.

An intelligent government can about face on a choice if new evidence comes to light.

In this case that is absolutely what happened. This whole subject isn't even a YES/NO RIGHT/WRONG GOOD/BAD issue. A fair few people voted leave because they thought immigrants were taking more money out of the economy than they contributed (via benefits)

This was debunked. Yet plenty still believe it.

Changing your mind is totally fine. ESPECIALLY when the "facts" you were given were incorrect or misleading. THATS democracy.

Voting then finding out what you were told and the leader saying "haw haw too late now" is Autocracy. Lucky for us we have judges to keep said leader in check.

Bobby you weren't supposed to pick Lebron James first, hes my favorite player! This isn't fair! I didn't know you were going to pick him! We're redoing the game until we get it right!

[Horza]

"This and the language of surrender suggests we are at war, either with Europe or with each other. As someone who grew up with parents who were born in the shadow of war, we are not at war with Europe, and we are not at war with each other," former Labour leader Ed Miliband critical of Boris Johnson's language in the Commons. (https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1183004/brexit-news-ed-miliband-boris-johnson-commons)

"The Prime Minister has a special responsibility, he is not exercising this responsibility, he is trying to divide an already divided country. Some people say this strategy will work, this strategy will not work as the British people are better than this."

[Thrombosis]

P.S Democracy is (like it or not) mean you can change your mind. Especially when so much of the original campaign was based on mistruths (like the legendary NHS bus claim)

Case in point:

<Me> Would you like a cup of coffee?
<You> Sure!
<Me> Heres your cup of coffee, sorry its actually full of faeces though
<You> Woah there i dont want that
<Me> Sorry chum you said you did want that. You cant go back on your want.
<You> I changed my mind based on new information

See? Perfectly reasonable.

Ah well the only real winners if we come out the EU are the toffs with tons of money offshore evading tax who will continue to evade because we wont have to abide by EU Tax law.

<GASP> It's almost like there is a motive

Really, and how many times did we get the chance to re-vote the 1975 referendum on joining the EEC? There was plenty of new information coming to light as the EEC morphed into the EU behemoth. Let me guess though, you want to re-run the referendum only if the people vote the wrong way, and just like the LibDems, you won't accept the result of the re-run if it's still not the right vote. Or perhaps like Labour you feel that if the electorate won't vote your way, you'll just find some new voters who will.

Oh and FYI Theresa May said there was money for a £385m a week boost for the NHS once we Brexit, but the puppet parliament instead wants to keep under-funding the NHS. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

The biggest lies told during the referendum campaign were all told by the remain side, e.g:
- EU Army was merely a dangerous fantasy;
- David Cameron would invoke Article 50 the day after the referendum;
- 500,000 job losses;
- Recession;
- We'd be 'back of the line' for a trade deal with the US;
- MPs will respect the vote of the people.

Oh and EU tax law is set up to facilitate large-scale corporate tax avoidance, as previously mentioned see double-irish and double-dutch tax arrangements (latter ruled perfectly legal by EU courts).

[Horza]

Dominic Cummings: delivering Brexit only way to solve abuse of MPs. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/26/dominic-cummings-delivering-brexit-only-way-to-solve-abuse-of-mps)

He has said it is “not surprising” that some voters are angry after Boris Johnson was criticised for stoking fury over Brexit. The prime minister’s senior adviser added that the only way the issue of threats and abuse will be solved is if MPs “respect” the result of the EU referendum. His comments, at a book launch on Thursday, came as the PM refused to bow to mounting pressure to apologise over his use of language.

[Thrombosis]

German Bundesrat passes proposed law giving three year prison sentences for 'denigrating EU flag'. (https://www.welt.de/newsticker/news1/article200625568/Justiz-Bundesrat-will-europaeische-Symbole-besser-schuetzen.html) The Bundesrat is the German upper house, still needs to be passed by the lower house before it becomes law, but we can all see the way the wind is blowing.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Really, and how many times did we get the chance to re-vote the 1975 referendum on joining the EEC? There was plenty of new information coming to light as the EEC morphed into the EU behemoth. Let me guess though, you want to re-run the referendum only if the people vote the wrong way, and just like the LibDems, you won't accept the result of the re-run if it's still not the right vote. Or perhaps like Labour you feel that if the electorate won't vote your way, you'll just find some new voters who will.

Oh and FYI Theresa May said there was money for a £385m a week boost for the NHS once we Brexit, but the puppet parliament instead wants to keep under-funding the NHS. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

The biggest lies told during the referendum campaign were all told by the remain side, e.g:
- EU Army was merely a dangerous fantasy;
- David Cameron would invoke Article 50 the day after the referendum;
- 500,000 job losses;
- Recession;
- We'd be 'back of the line' for a trade deal with the US;
- MPs will respect the vote of the people.

Oh and EU tax law is set up to facilitate large-scale corporate tax avoidance, as previously mentioned see double-irish and double-dutch tax arrangements (latter ruled perfectly legal by EU courts).

Actually i've accepted the ruling. I'm honestly disgusted with both sides now and just want it to be done with. I think anyone is kidding themselves that they can really verify anything either side says is true.

Few have the skillset to either vet or understand the ins and outs of being in or out the EU. Almost everyone who voted is an armchair economist (think along the lines of people who play Battlefield and suddenly consider themselves war experts).

I voted remain because i didnt fully understand the implications of leaving and couldnt trust the information i was getting from either side. As it stands i dont see there is an issue with the EU (just my view obviously).

One things for sure, its a good job we ARE in the EU "AT THIS MOMENT" otherwise bringing back all those holiday makers after thomas cook would sure be expensive. The only reason they are making it back atm is thanks to an EU scheme for repatriation.

I dunno how they could of done the referendum better but the majority of the population dont even understand how banking works in practice let alone trade law etc. Some things are not suitable to be put to the masses as a vote no matter how much they think they understand them.

its like voting wether to turn on the Hadron Collider. Some people heard it may make a black hole OMG. The majority dont even know what the hadron collider is. Similary i dare say the majority (disclaimer: this doesnt mean you reading now) dont really understand how the EU works or the REAL implications for leaving (pros AND cons)

Plenty of boomers voted for this and likely will only see the small immediate effects of it (for good or bad), the real effects i fear will take time to come to light and its our kids who will benefit or suffer.

TLDR: I voted. I didnt get the result i hoped. Im an adult and accepted it and just need for it to be over so i can start planning how to make sure my kids futures are secure.

[Teppler]

Actually i've accepted the ruling. I'm honestly disgusted with both sides now and just want it to be done with. I think anyone is kidding themselves that they can really verify anything either side says is true.

Few have the skillset to either vet or understand the ins and outs of being in or out the EU. Almost everyone who voted is an armchair economist (think along the lines of people who play Battlefield and suddenly consider themselves war experts).

I voted remain because i didnt fully understand the implications of leaving and couldnt trust the information i was getting from either side. As it stands i dont see there is an issue with the EU (just my view obviously).

One things for sure, its a good job we ARE in the EU "AT THIS MOMENT" otherwise bringing back all those holiday makers after thomas cook would sure be expensive. The only reason they are making it back atm is thanks to an EU scheme for repatriation.

I dunno how they could of done the referendum better but the majority of the population dont even understand how banking works in practice let alone trade law etc. Some things are not suitable to be put to the masses as a vote no matter how much they think they understand them.

its like voting wether to turn on the Hadron Collider. Some people heard it may make a black hole OMG. The majority dont even know what the hadron collider is. Similary i dare say the majority (disclaimer: this doesnt mean you reading now) dont really understand how the EU works or the REAL implications for leaving (pros AND cons)

Plenty of boomers voted for this and likely will only see the small immediate effects of it (for good or bad), the real effects i fear will take time to come to light and its our kids who will benefit or suffer.

TLDR: I voted. I didnt get the result i hoped. Im an adult and accepted it and just need for it to be over so i can start planning how to make sure my kids futures are secure.

Yeah same thing both sides as the elites cancel the winning vote for 'wrongthink'. You're kicking and screaming like a baby and a bully after you've lost.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Yeah same thing both sides as the elites cancel the winning vote for 'wrongthink'. You're kicking and screaming like a baby and a bully after you've lost.

Incorrect. I'll find a way to live with the result, as its the only thing i can do.

Bully? Wha..

[Teppler]

Incorrect. I'll find a way to live with the result, as its the only thing i can do.

Bully? Wha..

No. This is what you are not doing by making arguments that there should be a 2nd brexit vote because those damn commoners didn’t vote correctly.

P.S Democracy is (like it or not) mean you can change your mind.

If you were handling this well you wouldn’t be encouraging your government to adopt 3rd world dictatorship tactics of invalidating a vote because the people didn’t vote the way the ruling party wanted.

[Thrombosis]

Actually i've accepted the ruling. I'm honestly disgusted with both sides now and just want it to be done with. I think anyone is kidding themselves that they can really verify anything either side says is true.

Few have the skillset to either vet or understand the ins and outs of being in or out the EU. Almost everyone who voted is an armchair economist (think along the lines of people who play Battlefield and suddenly consider themselves war experts).

I voted remain because i didnt fully understand the implications of leaving and couldnt trust the information i was getting from either side. As it stands i dont see there is an issue with the EU (just my view obviously).

One things for sure, its a good job we ARE in the EU "AT THIS MOMENT" otherwise bringing back all those holiday makers after thomas cook would sure be expensive. The only reason they are making it back atm is thanks to an EU scheme for repatriation.

I dunno how they could of done the referendum better but the majority of the population dont even understand how banking works in practice let alone trade law etc. Some things are not suitable to be put to the masses as a vote no matter how much they think they understand them.

its like voting wether to turn on the Hadron Collider. Some people heard it may make a black hole OMG. The majority dont even know what the hadron collider is. Similary i dare say the majority (disclaimer: this doesnt mean you reading now) dont really understand how the EU works or the REAL implications for leaving (pros AND cons)

Plenty of boomers voted for this and likely will only see the small immediate effects of it (for good or bad), the real effects i fear will take time to come to light and its our kids who will benefit or suffer.

TLDR: I voted. I didnt get the result i hoped. Im an adult and accepted it and just need for it to be over so i can start planning how to make sure my kids futures are secure.

Fair enough, and I apologise if my tone was unduly harsh - my passions are running high atm.

FWIW I also don't understand the ins and outs of the EU either, but I saw that as a good reason for Leaving though, as I like my government to be transparent. If you come up with a system of government that's too complicated for the ordinary joe in the street to understand, then it's not a good system of government because it has the effect of taking power away from ordinary joe and transferring it to the bureaucrats. I also think some things, like democratic principles, transparency, accountability, and cultural identity are more important than economic growth - as Michael Caine said, "I'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant. (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/apr/06/michael-caine-voted-brexit-eu-freedom-not-immigrants-going-in-style-new-film)"

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

No. This is what you are not doing by making arguments that there should be a 2nd brexit vote because those damn commoners didn’t vote correctly.



If you were handling this well you wouldn’t be encouraging your government to adopt 3rd world dictatorship tactics of invalidating a vote because the people didn’t vote the way the ruling party wanted.

Pretty sure i didnt say i wanted a 2nd vote. I just said that democracy means you can change your mind.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Fair enough, and I apologise if my tone was unduly harsh - my passions are running high atm.

FWIW I also don't understand the ins and outs of the EU either, but I saw that as a good reason for Leaving though, as I like my government to be transparent. If you come up with a system of government that's too complicated for the ordinary joe in the street to understand, then it's not a good system of government because it has the effect of taking power away from ordinary joe and transferring it to the bureaucrats. I also think some things, like democratic principles, transparency, accountability, and cultural identity are more important than economic growth - as Michael Caine said, "I'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant. (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/apr/06/michael-caine-voted-brexit-eu-freedom-not-immigrants-going-in-style-new-film)"

Sure i can see it from the other side too. Naturally people are suffering from austerity (imo the tories choice and nothing to do with the EU but moving on) and can see something which presents a possible solution to their woes.

What i do know was the original date we were SUPPOSED to leave the EU was about 1 week before a law was due to be passed by the EU which would of enforced tax transparancy. It looked veeerrrrry much like the tories were trying to push this through to prevent that law and thus put their own laws in place letting them keep their offshore money hidden.

I dont think they have our best interests at heart. Labour im sure also have ulterior motives but historically (bar new labour with the god of war Mr Blair) have always been the party of the working class.

Labour have historically (imo) bought more good things than the tories ever did for the common man (NHS etc)

The tories bought privatisation which has bought little but misery (E.g. terrible trains, energy companies owned almost soley by foreign companies etc)

I dont see how selling all of our energy and train companies to other countries is "Taking back control" yet the Tories oversaw that completly.

Personally i have no issue with immigrants and cant think of an EU law which causes me any degree of hassle. Hense why i voted remain <shrug>

But here we are and thats what matters. So forward we go.

[PieOats]

P.S Democracy is (like it or not) mean you can change your mind. Especially when so much of the original campaign was based on mistruths (like the legendary NHS bus claim)

Case in point:

<Me> Would you like a cup of coffee?
<You> Sure!
<Me> Heres your cup of coffee, sorry its actually full of faeces though
<You> Woah there i dont want that
<Me> Sorry chum you said you did want that. You cant go back on your want.
<You> I changed my mind based on new information

See? Perfectly reasonable.

Ah well the only real winners if we come out the EU are the toffs with tons of money offshore evading tax who will continue to evade because we wont have to abide by EU Tax law.

<GASP> It's almost like there is a motive

UNGRATEFUL LITTLE SH!T!

*snatches cup of shitcoffee and pours it over a baloney (not balogna you twit !) sandwich and raises an eyebrow inquisitively*

How about *now*?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

UNGRATEFUL LITTLE SH!T!

*snatches cup of shitcoffee and pours it over a baloney (not balogna you twit !) sandwich and raises an eyebrow inquisitively*

How about *now*?

Much better thanks

[Horza]

Amber Rudd hits out at Boris Johnson as she accuses PM of using language that 'incites violence.' (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/amber-rudd-hits-out-at-boris-johnson-as-she-accuses-pm-of-using-language-that-incites-violence-a4248261.html)

“The sort of language I’m afraid we’ve seen more and more of coming out from No 10 does incite violence. It’s the sort of language people think legitimises a more aggressive approach and sometimes violence.” She added: “The casual approach to safety of MPs and their staff is immoral,” and said Johnson’s rhetoric reminded her of Donald Trump leading chants of “lock her up” against Hillary Clinton.

[Teppler]

Burning down the institution of democracy while chiding the opposition for not speaking pleasantly. Only in the UK.

[Horza]

Burning Down the House (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3eC35LoF4U&feature=youtu.be&t=15)

[Horza]

Boris Johnson could be forced out of office next week as opposition lawmakers try to join forces to replace him with an interim administration in order to secure another Brexit delay. (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/28/uk/boris-johnson-no-confidence-vote-intl-gbr/index.html)

Senior SNP MP Stewart Hosie told the BBC on Saturday there was a real chance a House of Commons no confidence vote could take place in the government next week. If Johnson lost that vote, he could be replaced as Prime Minister by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn for a short period of time.

"We have to do that because there is now no confidence that the Prime Minister will obey the law and seek the extension which Parliament voted for only a few weeks ago," Hosie said.

[Jimjam]

Burning down the institution of democracy while chiding the opposition for not speaking pleasantly. Only in the UK.

If you don't like it you're welcome to leave ;).


(Trying out some USAisms there)


invalidating a vote because the people didn’t vote the way the ruling party wanted.

Brexit isn't a party issue.

[Thrombosis]

Number 10 probes Remain MPs 'foreign collusion'. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7516083/No-10-probes-MPs-foreign-collusion-amid-plot-John-Bercow-send-surrender-letter-Brussels.html)

If true, and personally it wouldn't surprise me if it were, this is how far we've sunk, where sitting MPs would rather do the bidding of a foreign power and not the duty assigned to them by the Crown.

[Horza]

Yikes, they sure are getting desperate. Vote of no confidence, incoming!

[Wonkie]

Brexit isn't a party issue.

Isn't Corbyn a brexit guy? Because the voters voted for it, and he wants a deal to give them the best circumstances possible.

So lawful good it hurts 🥰

[Jimjam]

Isn't Corbyn a brexit guy? Because the voters voted for it, and he wants a deal to give them the best circumstances possible.

So lawful good it hurts 🥰

Yea, Corbyn is a long term Eurosceptic.

May was a Europhile, even voted remain. Took on the task of leadership/Brexit after Cameron resigned because no other Conservative was willing to take the poisoned chalice. Note Boris didn't even try for leadership back then despite having backed the leave campaign.

Prior to the leave campaign Boris was a Europhile. I already linked the video where he came out on the side of leave and his justification of his position flip.

I don't know who funded him then, but I hear in his recent leadership campaign he was funded a 6 figure amount by hedgefund billionaires who are essentially gambling on the value of the pound tanking. More tier two elites I guess?

[Viscere]

Brexit just seems like BDA trying to break fear in 2011.

Wipes and wipes and wipes and no loot :(

[Teppler]

Brexit just seems like BDA trying to break fear in 2011.

Wipes and wipes and wipes and no loot :(

Imagine if BDA had devs and rogean in their guild and they purposely wiped everyone at zone in every time because they had alts in the other guild. That’s a little bit closer to the situation.

[Thrombosis]

Yea, Corbyn is a long term Eurosceptic.

May was a Europhile, even voted remain. Took on the task of leadership/Brexit after Cameron resigned because no other Conservative was willing to take the poisoned chalice. Note Boris didn't even try for leadership back then despite having backed the leave campaign.

Prior to the leave campaign Boris was a Europhile. I already linked the video where he came out on the side of leave and his justification of his position flip.

Boris was going to try for the leadership, but the wind was taken out of his sails somewhat by being stabbed in the back by ally Michael Gove, who did run for the leadership. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind either, I used to be in favour of the EU too, until they humiliated our PM once too often and it saw it for what it was - a bureaucratic-driven, anti-democratic, federal super-state with no mandate.

I don't know who funded him then, but I hear in his recent leadership campaign he was funded a 6 figure amount by hedgefund billionaires who are essentially gambling on the value of the pound tanking. More tier two elites I guess?

This seems to be an increasingly popular conspiracy theory pushed by the likes of Guardian activist Carole 'Correction' Cadwalladr. Unless you know the long positions of these funds as well, you can't at all say what their motives/hopes/expectations are. Short selling is often used as a hedge against long positions not paying off.

[Jimjam]

Agreed; changing your mind on things is a good sign, and Johnsons reasons were convincing arguments, even if i struggle to believe him as a person.

[Horza]

Poland would support Scottish EU membership, says senior MEP. (https://www.thenational.scot/news/17934225.poland-supports-scottish-eu-membership-brexit/)

[Thrombosis]

Scottish Conservative Party reverses position on Brexit, now in favour of no deal. (https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-scottish-tories-reverse-ruth-davidson-s-opposition-to-no-deal-1-5013677) We are the UNITED Kingdom.

[Viscere]

What if there is no brexit on halloween ?

Watching from switzerland. Here people scratch their heads about british politics. Seems very chaotic.

[Horza]

Boris Johnson's 'secret Irish border plans' dismissed as non-starter. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/30/hardline-conservative-brexiters-open-door-to-support-for-deal)

Boris Johnson’s secret plans to solve the Irish border Brexit challenge involve customs sites on both sides of the border and real-time tracking devices on lorries, it has been reported. The idea of permanent clearance sites on both sides of the border, even five to 10 miles away, and real-time tracking of the movements of goods are unlikely to be supported by the Irish government.

[Jimjam]

Boris was going to try for the leadership, but the wind was taken out of his sails somewhat by being stabbed in the back by ally Michael Gove, who did run for the leadership. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind either, I used to be in favour of the EU too, until they humiliated our PM once too often and it saw it for what it was - a bureaucratic-driven, anti-democratic, federal super-state with no mandate.



This seems to be an increasingly popular conspiracy theory pushed by the likes of Guardian activist Carole 'Correction' Cadwalladr. Unless you know the long positions of these funds as well, you can't at all say what their motives/hopes/expectations are. Short selling is often used as a hedge against long positions not paying off.

I hear twinklings that Gove may be planning another Boris backstab.

[Wonkie]

Boris Johnson's 'secret Irish border plans' dismissed as non-starter. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/30/hardline-conservative-brexiters-open-door-to-support-for-deal)

Boris Johnson’s secret plans to solve the Irish border Brexit challenge involve customs sites on both sides of the border and real-time tracking devices on lorries, it has been reported. The idea of permanent clearance sites on both sides of the border, even five to 10 miles away, and real-time tracking of the movements of goods are unlikely to be supported by the Irish government.

the irish chimpanzees should take this deal. It's not often the crown cedes territory.

[Horza]

Boris Johnson says the UK will have to accept the "reality" of customs checks on the island of Ireland as part of a Brexit deal, telling the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg that ministers will submit "very constructive and far-reaching proposals" to the EU within days. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49893963)

Johnson confirmed the UK's plan would include some customs checks on the island of Ireland after Brexit, but they would be "absolutely minimal" and "won't involve new infrastructure." The EU says it has "not received any proposals from the UK" yet that could replace the backstop.

[Horza]

Boris Johnson has refused to deny an alleged affair with an American businesswoman being investigated for receiving public funds. (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-refuses-to-deny-alleged-affair-with-jennifer-arcuri-a4251396.html)

In an interview with Sky News on Tuesday, the Prime Minister was asked three times about the alleged affair with Jennifer Arcuri when he was Mayor of London but refused to deny it outright. He told political editor Beth Rigby, "I've said what I have to say about that matter," adding, "I think perhaps the most important point is that I'm very, very proud of everything we did in London."

[Jimjam]

"I think perhaps the most important point is that I'm very, very proud of everything we did in London."

https://i.imgur.com/E43qMYa.gif

[Horza]

Boris Johnson to give EU ‘take it or leave it’ ultimatum after Irish outrage at border plan. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-eu-leave-irish-border-plan-latest-a9128721.html)

Boris Johnson will lay down a “take it or leave it” ultimatum to Brussels on Wednesday, warning he will take the UK out of the European Union without a deal if it is rejected. If the EU is unwilling to “engage” with the final offer, there will be no further negotiation and Britain will leave without a deal in 29 days’ time on 31 October, said Downing Street.

[Horza]

A senior No 10 official said: “The government is either going to be negotiating a new deal or working on no deal — nobody will work on delay. The EU is obliged by EU law only to negotiate with member state governments, they cannot negotiate with parliament, and this government will not negotiate delay.”

[Cecil]

no one reads anything you type horza

I read what he typed. We are kindred spirits.

[Thrombosis]

Scotch whisky targetted by US following EU's illegal state aid to Franco-German Airbus. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-49915034) Remind me again why remaining in the EU is in Scotland's interests?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Sure. It sucks. But the US market for whisky while the single largest export country isnt the largest customer, that still goes to the EU at 30% of the value and 36% of the volume.

It will hurt, people will lose their jobs but it will survive.

I very much doubt that punters in the US will be overjoyed when scotch single malt is took off the shelves (due to being priced out) and replaced with a ton of american single malts.

They are fine, bourbon is great but its not "Scotch" which a lot of customers will feel strongly about.

It's going to hurt American bars too. More tit for tat.

(To be clear i think USA in this case has a right to be angry over the airbus thing and realize this dispute is seperate to the usual trump tarrifs stuff)

[Teppler]

Sure. It sucks. But the US market for whisky while the single largest export country isnt the largest customer, that still goes to the EU at 30% of the value and 36% of the volume.

It will hurt, people will lose their jobs but it will survive.

I very much doubt that punters in the US will be overjoyed when scotch single malt is took off the shelves (due to being priced out) and replaced with a ton of american single malts.

They are fine, bourbon is great but its not "Scotch" which a lot of customers will feel strongly about.

It's going to hurt American bars too. More tit for tat.

(To be clear i think USA in this case has a right to be angry over the airbus thing and realize this dispute is seperate to the usual trump tarrifs stuff)

No one in the US is going to notice or care.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

No one in the US is going to notice or care.

Way to speak for over 300 million people :D

I think you are incorrect and some would be very bummed if their favorite alchohol was suddenly unavaliable.

I would certainly be unhappy if Wild Turkey was excluded from bars suddenly.

[Jimjam]

Scotch whisky targetted by US following EU's illegal state aid to Franco-German Airbus. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-49915034) Remind me again why remaining in the EU is in Scotland's interests?

Remind me again about how the US is going to give great trade tariffs to UK?

I mean this is essentially a targeted tax to the UK.

[Teppler]

Way to speak for over 300 million people :D

I think you are incorrect and some would be very bummed if their favorite alchohol was suddenly unavaliable.

I would certainly be unhappy if Wild Turkey was excluded from bars suddenly.

I notice you UK people trying to scare people with these sort of threats. One of the earliest forms of anti Brexit propaganda I saw from across the pond was shameless advertising to young people about how they need to vote anti Brexit because they won’t be able to get drunk on holidays anymore. Like that the most important thing in the world. No, partying isn’t important. No, no Americans are going to notice your shitty malt liquor is gone when there’s a million other things to choose from. We’re not letting you work your way out of this with that weak shit.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I notice you UK people trying to scare people with these sort of threats. One of the earliest forms of anti Brexit propaganda I saw from across the pond was shameless advertising to young people about how they need to vote anti Brexit because they won’t be able to get drunk on holidays anymore. Like that the most important thing in the world. No, partying isn’t important. No, no Americans are going to notice your shitty malt liquor is gone when there’s a million other things to choose from. We’re not letting you work your way out of this with that weak shit.

Some people see threats everywhere. What threat?

Its simple economics. If you tax something to hell there is far less incentive to export it since it wont be as viable. The options are

A) The country quits exporting as much causing shortages of said product
B) The price is hiked to maintain profits which is passed on to the consumer

If no one will miss Scotch why does the USA spend over 1 billion dollars a year on it.

You are a incredibly aggressive person to discuss anything with. Almost imbalanced. It's almost like that stereotypical image of the 50's american who see's "commies" everywhere.

[Teppler]

Some people see threats everywhere. What threat?

Its simple economics. If you tax something to hell there is far less incentive to export it since it wont be as viable. The options are

A) The country quits exporting as much causing shortages of said product
B) The price is hiked to maintain profits which is passed on to the consumer

If no one will miss Scotch why does the USA spend over 1 billion dollars a year on it.

You are a incredibly aggressive person to discuss anything with. Almost imbalanced. It's almost like that stereotypical image of the 50's american who see's "commies" everywhere.

I have a degree in economics but thanks for the lesson.

I promise you we will be okay. No one will be writing their congress person with the problem of high priced scotch ruining everyone's chance to have a good time.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I have a degree in economics but thanks for the lesson.

I promise you we will be okay. No one will be writing their congress person with the problem of high priced scotch ruining everyone's chance to have a good time.

Gotcha. Anyway i wont keep you i'm sure America is missing it's foremost Economic advisor :D

[Mblake81]

*sips coffee*

Mornin.

Bourbon Pompeii (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5317pVm1zE)
https://i.imgur.com/5JOvRrW.jpg

[Jimjam]

I notice you UK people trying to scare people with these sort of threats. One of the earliest forms of anti Brexit propaganda I saw from across the pond was shameless advertising to young people about how they need to vote anti Brexit because they won’t be able to get drunk on holidays anymore. Like that the most important thing in the world. No, partying isn’t important. No, no Americans are going to notice your shitty malt liquor is gone when there’s a million other things to choose from. We’re not letting you work your way out of this with that weak shit.

You see, this is why I initially engaged you on Brexit. You have a totally different perspective on it, especially being an outsider and exposed to different views and media. I thought you might be interested in a boots on the field perspective - one that is soaked in the propaganda of both sides.

Instead you constantly belittle me and project malignant intentions on to me.

I'm telling you now, if you think getting drunk on Mediterranean islands is unimportant to British culture, you don't know anything about these people who you seem to think you know the best for.

We have like 3 days of 0 cloud cover per decade.

Spanish / Greek sun is the thing that stops the entire nation killing themselves!

[Teppler]

You definitely have a good nature and are trying to honestly figure things out which are different than the Horza types which are beyond help.

I’m going to point out another grave mistake you make. It’s not me that places malicious intentions onto you. You’ve absorbed them on your own and it’s probably not your fault. People have put a lot of money into building you this way and you didn’t have a chance. A lot of money.

When I engage you on these issues I realize what I’m really debating is a proxy for elites propaganda. It’s bad in the US. It’s even worse where you live. You guys come across as zombies for your state propaganda and I guess rightfully so, you guys have some really ugly draconian laws when it comes to freedom of speech. Logically, why should you have free conversation on this subject when freedom of speech isn’t even a tent of your society.

[Jimjam]

Thanks, that's good to hear.

But for a guardian of freedom of speech, could I politely request you to try to reduce your use of imperative commands encouraging people to 'stop' or leave the debate in other ways?

Like I said, you are interesting to talk with, but its a bit demotivating when faced with what comes across as a bit of a 'get outta here' attitude.

[Teppler]

Thanks, that's good to hear.

But for a guardian of freedom of speech, could I politely request you to try to reduce your use of imperative commands encouraging people to 'stop' or leave the debate in other ways?

Like I said, you are interesting to talk with, but its a bit demotivating when faced with what comes across as a bit of a 'get outta here' attitude.

That’s part of free speech. Ever see fight club when the guy tells some other guy to GTFO and stop waiting in front of the house. Its a test of sorts where you have to come back stronger. It’s possible to make your political and social opinion so loud and honest that they can’t be ignored no matter how much an outside force tries to beat you down. If you’re discouraged by me telling you to shut up think about some revolutionary figures throughout history that spent time in prisons when whole governments told them to shut up about issues. Some issues are really important.

At the end of the day honesty and righteousness is extremely powerful. As long as you cloak yourself in that, no one can really silence you. Of course you need to supplement this all with knowledge too.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

You definitely have a good nature and are trying to honestly figure things out which are different than the Horza types which are beyond help.

I’m going to point out another grave mistake you make. It’s not me that places malicious intentions onto you. You’ve absorbed them on your own and it’s probably not your fault. People have put a lot of money into building you this way and you didn’t have a chance. A lot of money.

When I engage you on these issues I realize what I’m really debating is a proxy for elites propaganda. It’s bad in the US. It’s even worse where you live. You guys come across as zombies for your state propaganda and I guess rightfully so, you guys have some really ugly draconian laws when it comes to freedom of speech. Logically, why should you have free conversation on this subject when freedom of speech isn’t even a tent of your society.

"Grave mistake you make"
"Its not your fault"
"You didnt have a chance"
"Your trying to figure things out"

It's like talking to sheldon from the big bang theory. There is absolutely not one part of your mind which considers you are incorrect is there? Its like that person at a party who everyone avoids after about 2 sentences.

I really WANT to debate with you but it's just a vile experience, not like a decent debate where you come away with a different perspective and maybe realize something you thought was right is not so simple.

[Jimjam]

"Grave mistake you make"
"Its not your fault"
"You didnt have a chance"
"Your trying to figure things out"

It's like talking to sheldon from the big bang theory. There is absolutely not one part of your mind which considers you are incorrect is there? Its like that person at a party who everyone avoids after about 2 sentences.

I really WANT to debate with you but it's just a vile experience, not like a decent debate where you come away with a different perspective and maybe realize something you thought was right is not so simple.

I think its nice he is so emotionally invested in something that doesn't immediately seem anything to do with him. Apart from 0.1% ruining all our lives.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I think its nice he is so emotionally invested in something that doesn't immediately seem anything to do with him. Apart from 0.1% ruining all our lives.

Yes if only he had the same attitude when it came to us talking about USA's issues.

All i see is someone totally dismissive of others opinions because of various reasons such as we have been blinded by our bias media, or spoon fed <something> from birth.

<shakes head>

[PieOats]

Teppler is a good lad. He's found a collection of ideas that brings meaning to his life in much the same way that cCHRISTians and prAGGRESSIVES spout their spittle. Don't be too harsh on the boy.

[Teppler]

"Grave mistake you make"
"Its not your fault"
"You didnt have a chance"
"Your trying to figure things out"

It's like talking to sheldon from the big bang theory. There is absolutely not one part of your mind which considers you are incorrect is there? Its like that person at a party who everyone avoids after about 2 sentences.

I really WANT to debate with you but it's just a vile experience, not like a decent debate where you come away with a different perspective and maybe realize something you thought was right is not so simple.

Sometimes people need an emotional haymakers to shock them out of their more stable positions. If I’m harsh with you it’s probably because I feel you are supporting something particularly abhorrent.

I mean it’s not just random opinions I have. I support them with facts and argument. If you don’t like something I said you either make your own valid points or step back. Not every argument is for everyone.

[Teppler]

I really shouldn’t be this invested in brexit. It just burns me up to see how the common people get treated over there by their elites. And well a lot of those elites are the DNC too.

[Thrombosis]

No one in the US is going to notice or care.

Yup, I was over in the states (Oregon) earlier this year, Scotch was frighteningly expensive in bars already. Maybe it's different in flatlander places like New York or LA but all the locals I saw drinking whisky were content with bourbons that tasted like paint stripper ;) I think if we could lower the price of Scotch over there though, more people would drink it and that would benefit Scotland.

[Teppler]

Yup, I was over in the states (Oregon) earlier this year, Scotch was frighteningly expensive in bars already. Maybe it's different in flatlander places like New York or LA but all the locals I saw drinking whisky were content with bourbons that tasted like paint stripper ;) I think if we could lower the price of Scotch over there though, more people would drink it and that would benefit Scotland.

There’s more important things in life than poisoning yourself with a specific poison. Like maybe the freedom of your people.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Sheldon Cooper. Honestly. Im out (again)

[Thrombosis]

Remind me again about how the US is going to give great trade tariffs to UK?

I mean this is essentially a targeted tax to the UK.

This is happening because the EU was found to have broken world trade laws in giving state aid to one of its companies - Airbus. The UK does not and will not break international trade laws, so once we control them again, the US would not be able to impose punitive tariffs on us.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

This is happening because the EU was found to have broken world trade laws in giving state aid to one of its companies - Airbus. The UK does not and will not break international trade laws, so once we control them again, the US would not be able to impose punitive tariffs on us.

The above is correct. Don't think us too squeaky clean though. Our MP's have been found to be illegally selling arms to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen against our own laws. If our MP's are willing to break those laws then trade laws are nothing to them. Some of the current party in power are the worst kind of money grabbers.

Our own foreign secretary (at the time) was found to be having secret off the record meetings with Israel to help put some cash in her (already full) pockets.

[Teppler]

The above is correct. Don't think us too squeaky clean though. Our MP's have been found to be illegally selling arms to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen against our own laws. If our MP's are willing to break those laws then trade laws are nothing to them. Some of the current party in power are the worst kind of money grabbers.

Our own foreign secretary (at the time) was found to be having secret off the record meetings with Israel to help put some cash in her (already full) pockets.

Stop being anti Semitic. How dare you.

[Jimjam]

I really shouldn’t be this invested in brexit. It just burns me up to see how the common people get treated over there by their elites. And well a lot of those elites are the DNC too.

Well, the EU exists to make trade easier and cheaper; which obviously benefits the wealthy who stand to profit from that trade. So I see your point there. There is definitely an element to it that is designed to benefit elites.

I still think you are overlooking a different set of elites, hedge fund managers and so on, who stand to benefit tremendously from Brexit too.

Consolidating this, Leave / Remain is a war between two sets of elites, using the regular man as their pawns?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Stop being anti Semitic. How dare you.

There we go. I knew you had a sense of humour in there somewhere.

[Teppler]

There we go. I knew you had a sense of humour in there somewhere.

Listen over here in America, Israel is our greatest ally. We give them only 3.2 billion per year in aid and we get back...... can anyone help me out here?

[Mblake81]

Teppler is a good lad. He's found a collection of ideas that brings meaning to his life in much the same way that cCHRISTians and prAGGRESSIVES spout their spittle. Don't be too harsh on the boy.

Filbus :confused:

[Jimjam]

This is happening because the EU was found to have broken world trade laws in giving state aid to one of its companies - Airbus. The UK does not and will not break international trade laws, so once we control them again, the US would not be able to impose punitive tariffs on us.

But, why are the US hitting a Scottish product, if their truck is with (what I believe is predominantly) a Franco/German company?

Genuine question; wouldn't the US be better off tariffing things that are produced and exported by those countries, especially when relations with the UK are at a very delicate time?

Is it about teaching the UK a lesson; the US will persecute the UK if it stays kosha with EU? Does UK really want to submit to such a partnership?

[Teppler]

Filbus :confused:

He always had a hard on for me so maybe.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Listen over here in America, Israel is our greatest ally. We give them only 3.2 billion per year in aid and we get back...... can anyone help me out here?

Why a country with an ultra modern army needs aid is beyond me.

DISCLAIMER: Its not beyond me. Because its not "aid".

[Teppler]

It goes to build Israel's massive border wall, meanwhile in America jews voted 71% for Hillary and were her largest donating block which means Israeli American's overwhelmingly voted for no border wall in America.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

It goes to build Israel's massive border wall, meanwhile in America jews voted 71% for Hillary and were her largest donating block which means Israeli American's overwhelmingly voted for no border wall in America.

It was a rhetorical question. I know what Israel do with their money. It's hard to ignore that wall.

[Teppler]

American Jews disapprove most strongly of Trump’s handling of “family separations at the Mexican border (78 percent), handling of DACA recipients (74 percent), guns (74 percent), handling of the Mueller Report (73 percent), anti-Semitism (71 percent), building of the border wall (71 percent), taxes (70 percent), Supreme Court nominations (69 percent), health care (69 percent), and banning immigration from certain Muslim-majority countries (66 percent).”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/24/jews-still-despise-trump/

meanwhile in Israel

https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_2200,h_1278,x_0,y_190,c_crop,g_north_west/w_857,h_482,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:no ne/https://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.6832366.1547418551!/image/1018316866.jpg

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Yes the wall is both nasty and ironic.

[Jimjam]

Haha! Thats funny! Of course Israelies (or any people, really) want difficult access for foreigns into their own country, but easy access into foreign countries!

Reminds me of all those UK expats living in spain that voted Brexit cos 'immigrants ruined Britain'!

[Thrombosis]

But, why are the US hitting a Scottish product, if their truck is with (what I believe is predominantly) a Franco/German company?

Genuine question; wouldn't the US be better off tariffing things that are produced and exported by those countries, especially when relations with the UK are at a very delicate time?

Is it about teaching the UK a lesson; the US will persecute the UK if it stays kosha with EU? Does UK really want to submit to such a partnership?

Because we're all in the EU, a protectionist racket. They can target what they want for reasons they don't need to specify.

[Patriam1066]

If the EU is a protectionist racket, how does it serve the UK to be outside the protectionist entity, given that those are your largest trade partners?

[Jimjam]

They can target what they want for reasons they don't need to specify.

Which is why I ask the question; as they haven't specified their reasons, why do we think they targeted Scottish booze?

edit: Honest, I think the US may have just ran numbers through a calculator to forecast which tariffs would give the sting they are looking to inflict, without considering the diplomatic implications on slamming a tariff on a country they have previously claimed they want to have good trade relations with?

[Patriam1066]

I’m not happy about the scotch tariffs. Bourbon isn’t as good for drinking neat

I think they’re retaliatory since the EU tariffs bourbon? Not sure

[Thrombosis]

If the EU is a protectionist racket, how does it serve the UK to be outside the protectionist entity, given that those are your largest trade partners?

We have said that we wanted a trade deal with the EU, and protectionism never works in the long run.

[Patriam1066]

We have said that we wanted a trade deal with the EU, and protectionism never works in the long run.

In the long run well all be dead

:)

[Thrombosis]

Which is why I ask the question; as they haven't specified their reasons, why do we think they targeted Scottish booze?

edit: Honest, I think the US may have just ran numbers through a calculator to forecast which tariffs would give the sting they are looking to inflict, without considering the diplomatic implications on slamming a tariff on a country they have previously claimed they want to have good trade relations with?

Not sure tbh but I remember that in previous trade spats, Scotch Whisky was also targeted. So I don't think the US is playing politics, trying to help the UK government out or anything. It's a luxury good, sold for high margins and always has competitors with locally distilled spirits, this probably makes it vulnerable for tariffs.

[Patriam1066]

Apparently all of this is related to airbus getting EU subsidies

I’m guessing we subsidize Boeing. I know for a fact they’ve received money from our Ex-Im bank and probably pay little in taxes. HMMMMM. I don’t support tariffs against Europe (excluding Germany). Fuck Germany

[Teppler]

Haha! Thats funny! Of course Israelies (or any people, really) want difficult access for foreigns into their own country, but easy access into foreign countries!

Reminds me of all those UK expats living in spain that voted Brexit cos 'immigrants ruined Britain'!

Did you catch the part about how we pay for their wall basically? We send them 3.2 billion annually for what again?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Did you catch the part about how we pay for their wall basically? We send them 3.2 billion annually for what again?

Ask Donald. He's a nice guy, i'm sure he will tell you.

[Jimjam]

Did you catch the part about how we pay for their wall basically? We send them 3.2 billion annually for what again?
Hmmm, this has me questioning who is bankrolling Rivervale. That wall must be expensive to maintain. Speaking of expensive, the deputies have some of the best equipment out there.

I suspect there is more to this than first thought!

[Jimjam]

Hmmm, this has me questioning who is bankrolling Rivervale. That wall must be expensive to maintain. Speaking of expensive, the deputies have some of the best equipment out there.

I suspect there is more to this than first thought!

I bet it is those Ratheschilds of Kaladim!

[Horza]

'Not even remotely acceptable': European Parliament says it will veto Boris Johnson's Brexit plan. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-latest-news-parliament-proposal-meps-reject-a9138346.html)

It comes as the Irish government warned that it "cannot possibly" support the plan in its current form, and encouraged the UK to come back with something "fit for purpose;" while the European Commission said it was down to the UK to fix a number of "problematic points."

Speaking after a meeting of the parliament's Brexit steering group, coordinator Guy Verhofstadt said the plans were "mainly a repackaging of the bad ideas that have already been floated in the past."

[feniin]

Northern Ireland is not where I want to be on Nov 1 if there's no plan in place.

[PieOats]

Hmmm, this has me questioning who is bankrolling Rivervale. That wall must be expensive to maintain. Speaking of expensive, the deputies have some of the best equipment out there.

I suspect there is more to this than first thought!

I bet it is those Ratheschilds of Kaladim!


Goog posts, pal.

[Teppler]

'Not even remotely acceptable': European Parliament says it will veto Boris Johnson's Brexit plan. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-latest-news-parliament-proposal-meps-reject-a9138346.html)

It comes as the Irish government warned that it "cannot possibly" support the plan in its current form, and encouraged the UK to come back with something "fit for purpose;" while the European Commission said it was down to the UK to fix a number of "problematic points."

Speaking after a meeting of the parliament's Brexit steering group, coordinator Guy Verhofstadt said the plans were "mainly a repackaging of the bad ideas that have already been floated in the past."

UK needs a strong leader atm the moment to come in and hang the traitors. Frankly, the crown is supposed to work in these cases but it looks like they are an utter failure as well.

There’s no way brexit is ever going through.

Nobody has the power to push it through. All the power resides with the elites who have already said no, despite the vote to the contrary.

[Teppler]

If the UK had guns, I doubt this assault against the common people would be happening. What a shame.

[Domo]

you are one sad keyboard loser Teppler :(

[Horza]

UK needs a strong leader atm the moment to come in and hang the traitors.

[Teppler]

I agree I am very sad that the have to fight this battle for the common UK citizen. In a happier and more just world, people get what they vote on.

[Jimjam]

If the UK had guns, I doubt this assault against the common people would be happening. What a shame.

UK does have guns. And we have had an MP murdered already. Poor taste my dude.

[Teppler]

UK does have guns. And we have had an MP murdered already. Poor taste my dude.

Lmao I’ve seen the psa’s with your authorities freaking out about butter knives. Your people are not only neutered in terms of defending themselves physically. You can’t even defend yourself verbally. If I were a UK citizen I probably would of been arrested by now for arguing points I’ve brought up in this thread. You guys are fucked.

[Jimjam]

Inciting riot is a crime, yes.

[Teppler]

Make sure you’re nice and pleasant while elites utterly destroy the concept of western justice and democracy right before your eyes. All for your future offspring to enjoy the results. You put enough men in these positions and they stop being quiet nice and pleasant.

[Horza]

UK does have guns. And we have had an MP murdered already. Poor taste my dude.

I seriously doubt that Teppler knows or even cares about who Jo Cox is.

[Teppler]

Muh Jo Cox. You better stop your behavior right now or you’ll get more of the intended result!!!

[Horza]

You put enough men in these positions and they stop being quiet nice and pleasant.

Gamers Rise Up!!

[Teppler]

Jim you still aren't understanding the scope of this whole thing. The multi generational crimes these people have committed and continue to commit. Just the stealing and wealth siphoning they've done is enough to warrant deaths but it's so much worse. The demographic change pushes. Their degradation of the family unit.

The cherry on top is the complete and utter ruination of the people having a say. It's effectively turned in 'You have a say but you have to vote the way we want'.

Most has been going on multiple life times but better tone down the rhetoric and let this continue because we wouldn't want another Jo Cox huh?

[Jimjam]

Teppler, you are endorsing the murder of democratically elected representatives of the people, that have nothing to do with the hyper wealthy.

You're naiive if you think Brexit would do anything to get their fingers out of the country's pie. London is a financial capital of the world and the rot is far deeper than you seem to realise.

Would you give up your citizenship to and right to travel throughout the US to free yourself from federal and political corruption?

[Teppler]

Teppler, you are endorsing the murder of democratically elected representatives of the people, that have nothing to do with the hyper wealthy.

You're naiive if you think Brexit would do anything to get their fingers out of the country's pie. London is a financial capital of the world and the rot is far deeper than you seem to realise.

Would you give up your citizenship to and right to travel throughout the US to free yourself from federal and political corruption?

#1- You wouldn't know it if they did.

#2- No, I'm working to reform from within.

You should definitely watch out ever being friendly with me on here. I know how your speech laws work. You're most likely going to get a visit from your secret service equivalent if you agree with me too much.

[Horza]

you are endorsing the murder of democratically elected representatives of the people, that have nothing to do with the hyper wealthy.

I seriously doubt that he even cares.

[Teppler]

Oh. This tactic-

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/315/716/eb1.png

[Jimjam]

#2

Exactly.

Reform from within.

England has always been a thorn in the EU's side. We are giving away a lot of European sovereignty by leaving the EU. Much easier to reform the EU from within; for starters the UK is a member with a veto.

Cutting and running seems irresponsible.

[Jimjam]

I seriously doubt that he even cares.

From what I understand there is a strong tradition of murdering the person who represents your interests in the US, so I'm just chalking that up to cultural differences.

[PieOats]

Mods, pleSae ban Teppler. He's. Terrible parody and a poor shaman.

[Thrombosis]

Listen: Vice President of EU Parliament gives car crash interview to LBC (https://order-order.com/2019/10/03/vice-president-eu-parliament-tried-critique-boris-deal-without-read/). Hasn't read Boris' letter to Juncker, didn't know that customs checks take place 5 miles away from the port of Rotterdam. No wonder EU politicians rarely are prepared to be scrutinised by the UK media.

[Horza]

EU calls on Boris Johnson to publish Brexit plan in full. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/03/eu-calls-on-boris-johnson-to-publish-brexit-plan-in-full)

Ireland’s Leo Varadkar says PM’s pledge of no hard border contradicts written proposal. The UK has so far only made public a seven-page explanatory document on its proposals and has insisted that the full 44-page legal text given to the European commission be kept confidential.

[Patriam1066]

Lmao I’ve seen the psa’s with your authorities freaking out about butter knives. Your people are not only neutered in terms of defending themselves physically. You can’t even defend yourself verbally. If I were a UK citizen I probably would of been arrested by now for arguing points I’ve brought up in this thread. You guys are fucked.

The knife attacks aren’t his people.. they’re Pakistanis and Jamaicans living in london

[Teppler]

#2

Exactly.

Reform from within.

England has always been a thorn in the EU's side. We are giving away a lot of European sovereignty by leaving the EU. Much easier to reform the EU from within; for starters the UK is a member with a veto.

Cutting and running seems irresponsible.

Jim this is fucking sad. Grow some balls and have your people be their own people, not the EUs bitch. There’s simply no route to being your own people with what they have just done to you with brexit.

[Jimjam]

You can talk all you want about Europe degrading the family unit, but the fact is the wife and I are going to lose the right to live in each others countries. Brexit could very well tear my closest people apart so maybe you should STFU on that particular point?

[Jimjam]

Just like you, I'd rather retain my citizenship tyvm.

[Horza]

You can talk all you want about Europe degrading the family unit, but the fact is the wife and I are going to lose the right to live in each others countries. Brexit could very well tear my closest people apart so maybe you should STFU on that particular point?

Teppler opposes miscegenation, so your family doesn't really count.

[Jimjam]

TBH, Brexit couldn't happen at a better time. I'm getting wife deported on 1st November so I can dedicate 24/7 to p1999 Green.

Enjoy your week headstart guys!

[Teppler]

You can talk all you want about Europe degrading the family unit, but the fact is the wife and I are going to lose the right to live in each others countries. Brexit could very well tear my closest people apart so maybe you should STFU on that particular point?

Try picking 1 country and have one apply for citizenship there. IDK how it works for you guys over here but in America when one partner is married, it speeds up the citizenship process. Stop being lazy and using that as an excuse.

[Jimjam]

IDK

While your attempt at advice is appreciated, this is the TLDR of what you have to say on the issue.

[Thrombosis]

EU calls on Boris Johnson to publish Brexit plan in full. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/03/eu-calls-on-boris-johnson-to-publish-brexit-plan-in-full)

Ireland’s Leo Varadkar says PM’s pledge of no hard border contradicts written proposal. The UK has so far only made public a seven-page explanatory document on its proposals and has insisted that the full 44-page legal text given to the European commission be kept confidential.

Entirely expected at this stage. Doing a deal with the UK means the EU has to compromise, and why should they compromise when their puppets in our parliament have already passed a law (with the aid of the French government) that requires us to beg for an extension?

[Thrombosis]

"Independent" Supreme Court judge makes anti-Boris speech. (https://order-order.com/2019/10/04/baroness-hale-takes-digs-boris-new-speech/)

[Thrombosis]

EU super-trawler capable of landing 6000 tonnes of fish is currently plundering UK fishing waters. (https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-03/the-super-trawler-just-14-miles-off-brighton-capable-of-landing-6-000-tonnes-of-fish/?fbclid=IwAR1E1h8xFsfA7w8DSaouzUJN6wgfVVyGUOLHT7j6 Rkgu0LnWB4LKskhePo0) UK powerless to preserve its fish stocks while we are in the EU.

[Jimjam]

EU super-trawler capable of landing 6000 tonnes of fish is currently plundering UK fishing waters. (https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-03/the-super-trawler-just-14-miles-off-brighton-capable-of-landing-6-000-tonnes-of-fish/?fbclid=IwAR1E1h8xFsfA7w8DSaouzUJN6wgfVVyGUOLHT7j6 Rkgu0LnWB4LKskhePo0) UK powerless to preserve its fish stocks while we are in the EU.

From what I've read, the problems with the fishing waters is the UK government fucked up on many levels negotiations, including awarding fishing rights almost exclusively to super companies rather than local generational fishers.


To be honest, even though it was rightly one of the key issues for many leave voters, I don't see how leaving the EU is going to do anything to reduce government cronyism of fisheries. There will be less to stop them from awarding all fishing rights of UK waters to their wealthy 'friends'.

Fishing waters is one of many crisis where the government has fucked up / sold out (depending how generous you are feeling) and then scapegoated the EU.

I expect this behaviour to continue, with the government scapegoating "unfavourable leaving terms" on Europe each time the government bails out a crony instead of supporting the people.

[Thrombosis]

From what I've read, the problems with the fishing waters is the UK government fucked up on many levels negotiations, including awarding fishing rights almost exclusively to super companies rather than local generational fishers.

That would be illegal under EU law.

To be honest, even though it was rightly one of the key issues for many leave voters, I don't see how leaving the EU is going to do anything to reduce government cronyism of fisheries. There will be less to stop them from awarding all fishing rights of UK waters to their wealthy 'friends'.

Fishing waters is one of many crisis where the government has fucked up / sold out (depending how generous you are feeling) and then scapegoated the EU.

I expect this behaviour to continue, with the government scapegoating "unfavourable leaving terms" on Europe each time the government bails out a crony instead of supporting the people.

One of the things that would stop that happening is that the politicians who decide UK fishing policy would be held accountable by the UK electorate - something that currently doesn't happen with the EU.

[feniin]

"Independent" Supreme Court judge makes anti-Boris speech. (https://order-order.com/2019/10/04/baroness-hale-takes-digs-boris-new-speech/)

Just because you're independent doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that someone is a twat.

[Jimjam]

That would be illegal under EU law.



One of the things that would stop that happening is that the politicians who decide UK fishing policy would be held accountable by the UK electorate - something that currently doesn't happen with the EU.

Member states remain responsible for allocating quotas; i believe this is the justification for the cronyism of how the uk gov screws locals and sucks up to the corps. If, as you say, the way we have allocated our quotas, is illegal, that is a big red mark against our government (but also red mark to the EU for not acting on it).

Much of our crony privitisation is blamed on EU law... But no other EU nations seem to interpret the EU laws the way the UK does.

[Thrombosis]

Just because you're independent doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that someone is a twat.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it does mean you can't acknowledge that you think someone is a twat.

[Thrombosis]

Member states remain responsible for allocating quotas; i believe this is the justification for the cronyism of how the uk gov screws locals and sucks up to the corps. If, as you say, the way we have allocated our quotas, is illegal, that is a big red mark against our government (but also red mark to the EU for not acting on it).

Much of our crony privitisation is blamed on EU law... But no other EU nations seem to interpret the EU laws the way the UK does.

No we haven't acted illegally - you suggested we should favour small, independent, local fishing fleets over the big corporate trawlers. That is what is illegal under EU law, and would remain illegal as long as we're in the Single Market.

[feniin]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it does mean you can't acknowledge that you think someone is a twat.

As long as the trial/decision was unbiased and carried out according to law, you can absolutely have an opinion after the fact. Thought policing already?

[Wonkie]

Giving control to a bunch of dumb yokels is how you get food shortages

[Horza]

Boris Johnson will seek Brexit delay if no deal is reached, court documents say. (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/04/uk/boris-johnson-will-seek-brexit-delay-gbr-intl/index.html)

Johnson previously said he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than seek another Brexit delay, but the documents suggest that he has accepted the terms of the Benn Act. It comes after the Prime Minister publicly said the government "will obey the law, and will come out by October 31," an assertion that fueled speculation he may have found a loophole in the legislation.

[Teppler]

Boris Johnson will seek Brexit delay if no deal is reached, court documents say. (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/04/uk/boris-johnson-will-seek-brexit-delay-gbr-intl/index.html)

Johnson previously said he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than seek another Brexit delay, but the documents suggest that he has accepted the terms of the Benn Act. It comes after the Prime Minister publicly said the government "will obey the law, and will come out by October 31," an assertion that fueled speculation he may have found a loophole in the legislation.

The brits cuck out again. Color me surprised.

Expecting Brexit is like expecting the trump impeachment. You’re delusional if you think it’s ever think it’s going to happen.

[Jimjam]

No we haven't acted illegally - you suggested we should favour small, independent, local fishing fleets over the big corporate trawlers. That is what is illegal under EU law, and would remain illegal as long as we're in the Single Market.

I'm not convinced large companies buying up all the quotas from local fishermen is forced by the eu:

"Such accumulations run directly contrary to the principles laid down by the common fisheries policy (CPF). Article 17 of the CFP bans “dominant positions” and calls on member states to allocate their fish quotas according, among other things, to “the impact of fishing on the environment” and “the contribution to the local economy”."

Sounds like UK government failing its duty to local economies as they'd rather support and curry favour with larger commercials.

[Horza]

The brits cuck out again. Color me surprised.

Expecting Brexit is like expecting the trump impeachment. You’re delusional if you think it’s ever think it’s going to happen.

Impeachment is definitely happening, removal from office really depends on how damning the evidence against Trump is and how many senators are willing to risk their chances at re-election for President 8chan.

[Thrombosis]

I'm not convinced large companies buying up all the quotas from local fishermen is forced by the eu:

"Such accumulations run directly contrary to the principles laid down by the common fisheries policy (CPF). Article 17 of the CFP bans “dominant positions” and calls on member states to allocate their fish quotas according, among other things, to “the impact of fishing on the environment” and “the contribution to the local economy”."

Sounds like UK government failing its duty to local economies as they'd rather support and curry favour with larger commercials.

They are not able to stop trawlers like this fishing UK waters because there are no UK waters in the EU.

Oh yeah, the CFP has been fantastic for the impact of fishing on the environment hasn't it? In 1960, before the CFP, the size of the UK catch from the North Sea was 340k metric tons while Denmark's was 285k metric tons. In 1980, 10 years of CFP management, the UK catch was up to 390k metric tones, while Denmark's was 1,800k metric tons. Overfishing happened because of EU mismanagement and until we take control back of our waters it will always be the case.

[Teppler]

Impeachment is definitely happening, removal from office really depends on how damning the evidence against Trump is and how many senators are willing to risk their chances at re-election for President 8chan.

Hillary is definitely going to win.
The economy is definitely going to be destroyed under Trump.
Mueller definitely has him dead to rights.
He will definitely be impeached.

[Jimjam]

They are not able to stop trawlers like this fishing UK waters because there are no UK waters in the EU.

Oh yeah, the CFP has been fantastic for the impact of fishing on the environment hasn't it? In 1960, before the CFP, the size of the UK catch from the North Sea was 340k metric tons while Denmark's was 285k metric tons. In 1980, 10 years of CFP management, the UK catch was up to 390k metric tones, while Denmark's was 1,800k metric tons. Overfishing happened because of EU mismanagement and until we take control back of our waters it will always be the case.

The foreign trawlers overfishing and exceeding their quotas is a separate issue to our own government ignoring our local fishermen in favour of domestic super companies; There already are tools to deal with these issues, yet they aren't dealt with, so I don't expect this issues will be properly addressed post Brexit either.

[Wonkie]

They are not able to stop trawlers like this fishing UK waters because there are no UK waters in the EU.

Oh yeah, the CFP has been fantastic for the impact of fishing on the environment hasn't it? In 1960, before the CFP, the size of the UK catch from the North Sea was 340k metric tons while Denmark's was 285k metric tons. In 1980, 10 years of CFP management, the UK catch was up to 390k metric tones, while Denmark's was 1,800k metric tons. Overfishing happened because of EU mismanagement and until we take control back of our waters it will always be the case.

Why didn't the UK fish more?

[Jimjam]

Why didn't the UK fish more?

The EU's waters are pooled (along with some non-EU countries). There are quotas of how much of each type of fish that can be taken. Every country is given a share. Individual governments are then responsible for distributing their share of the quota in a way that promotes competition without harming local economies.

The UK handed most of their quota to international companies, and I believe some smaller fishermen sold the rights to their quotas to others. Ergo, UK doesn't fish as much as it could, and blames the EU for that.

This is the Cronyism of the Conservative Party; selling the nations wealth to their 'friends' that I object to (though I am now told there is a higher tier of elites who are basically doing the same thing with Europe as a whole...).


That's my perception, I'd love to hear Thrombosis's.

[feniin]

Hillary is definitely going to win.
The economy is definitely going to be destroyed under Trump.
Mueller definitely has him dead to rights.
He will definitely be impeached.

What situation do you think would cause the House to vote no? Like... Do you understand how the process works?

[Wonkie]

The EU's waters are pooled (along with some non-EU countries). There are quotas of how much of each type of fish that can be taken. Every country is given a share. Individual governments are then responsible for distributing their share of the quota in a way that promotes competition without harming local economies.

The UK handed most of their quota to international companies, and I believe some smaller fishermen sold the rights to their quotas to others. Ergo, UK doesn't fish as much as it could, and blames the EU for that.

This is the Cronyism of the Conservative Party; selling the nations wealth to their 'friends' that I object to (though I am now told there is a higher tier of elites who are basically doing the same thing with Europe as a whole...).


That's my perception, I'd love to hear Thrombosis's.

Technically the UK is in the EU so I guess slapping themselves silly can be blamed as the EU doing it.

Thanks

e: do Brits eat much tinned fish?

[Zeboim]

Hillary did win the vote, but lost on a technicality.
Manufacturing and agriculture are taking a bath right now and we have a year left of him monkeying at the wheel with his stupid tariff shit. We're running on credit card money atm from his tax cut as well.
Mueller did have him dead to rights, but Barr the Fixer was brought on to bury it and did so, just like he buried Iran Contra 30 years ago.
Impeachment is absolutely going to happen, its conviction that is unlikely.

Get better examples kthx

[Thrombosis]

Why didn't the UK fish more?

UK's fishing fleet has traditionally been based on small-scale, family-owned vessels that fish sustainably. Incidentally, the Norwegian fleet, which fishes its own North Sea waters and not the EU's CFP managed zone, caught roughly the same amount of fish as the UK did in 1960, but now they catch more than twice as much as we do.

@Jimjam - you like to blame the Conservatives but by my reckoning Labour were in power for around 20 of the last 50 years. Don't see much evidence that they gave much of a damn about the UK's coastal communities either.

[Jimjam]

UK's fishing fleet has traditionally been based on small-scale, family-owned vessels that fish sustainably. Incidentally, the Norwegian fleet, which fishes its own North Sea waters and not the EU's CFP managed zone, caught roughly the same amount of fish as the UK did in 1960, but now they catch more than twice as much as we do.

@Jimjam - you like to blame the Conservatives but by my reckoning Labour were in power for around 20 of the last 50 years. Don't see much evidence that they gave much of a damn about the UK's coastal communities either.

Yea, you're right there; governments on both sides of the commons to fault here across those periods. I don't think much more of Labour than i do Conservatives!

Thats the problem with democracy; no matter who you vote for a politician gets in! ��

[Horza]

Boris Johnson’s pitch for a Hollywood blockbuster revealed. (https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/boris-and-the-undiscovered-film-pitch-starring-scarlett-johansson-and-a-hero-called-marmaduke-a4254151.html)

‘Mission to Assyria’, starring a “a slack-jawed archaeologist,” Marmaduke Montmorency Burton, avenging ISIS’s cultural destruction. Marmaduke is, in Johnson’s imagination an “old Clooney/Connery/Eastwood type geezer in his fifties,” with SAS connections. The female lead, an archaeologist, is “gorgeous but scholarly” (naturally). He hopefully suggests Angelina Jolie or Scarlett Johansson.

“So, I imagine,” continues Boris of his opening scenes, “We begin with a sickening montage of atrocities: beheadings of innocent people in orange jumpsuits, torchings of Shias, rapes of Yazidi women, and footage of the smashing and the demolition of the Assyrian cities. These bestial crimes are orchestrated by a horrible cologne-drenched jihadi with an air of mincing menace.”

[Thrombosis]

EU is allowing food to be pumped full of potentially dangerous additives (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/04/eu-allowing-food-pumped-full-potentially-dangerous-additives/)

[Thrombosis]

EU Empire to expand into the Balkans as Her Excellency Ursula von der Leyen clears way for North Macedonia and Albania to join. (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1186375/EU-news-european-union-albania-north-macedonia-von-der-leyen-eu-expansion-latest) The noose tightens around Serbia...

[Wonkie]

UK's fishing fleet has traditionally been based on small-scale, family-owned vessels that fish sustainably. Incidentally, the Norwegian fleet, which fishes its own North Sea waters and not the EU's CFP managed zone, caught roughly the same amount of fish as the UK did in 1960, but now they catch more than twice as much as we do.

@Jimjam - you like to blame the Conservatives but by my reckoning Labour were in power for around 20 of the last 50 years. Don't see much evidence that they gave much of a damn about the UK's coastal communities either.

1)Is the UK fish market equal to the Norwegian fish market?
2)Sustainability can be quantified. Do so and show that Norway overdid it and UK did not.
3) are all these fishing vessels state owned

[feniin]

EU is allowing food to be pumped full of potentially dangerous additives (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/04/eu-allowing-food-pumped-full-potentially-dangerous-additives/)

I thought you right-wingers didn't want government intervention and regulation on private businesses? Can't the market sort that out?

[Zeboim]

I think the tooth fairy has a better record than the free market on that.