<Riot> = Server rotation

[Littul Jonn]

Change my mind...


Also little drunk haha just puttin that out there :D

[baakss]

Change my mind...


Also little drunk haha just puttin that out there :D

Don't you mean Littul drunk?!

[Swish2]

Why rotate a server that's going to get quieter in a couple of months?

[Littul Jonn]

Don't you mean Littul drunk?!



hahaha truth

[Prostatus]

Why rotate a server that's going to get quieter in a couple of months?

someone get to be Queen of the Ashes

[Hibbs]

Why rotate a server that's going to get quieter in a couple of months?

Swish you mean 8 days** haha

[jolanar]

Why rotate a server that's going to get quieter in a couple of months?

Lol at thinking people won't stop playing green to raid on blue for the next year until Kunark releases at least.

[NervousItch]

Littul jonn was one of the most positive people I knew on this server. Never wanted to make a back handed or snarky comment to other guilds when posting. But I see that’s changed as he spends more time around his new riot buddy’s while they Zerg gang bang the server in to the ground. I’m sorry you lost your way buddy.

[Jonabis]

Littul is in Aftermath, not Riot.

[NervousItch]

Well, crap on me.

[Freakish]

His Sig says recruitment officer of Azure Guard.

[Ripqozko]

His Sig says recruitment officer of Azure Guard.

He is multi talented

[Jimjam]

Littul jonn was one of the most positive people I knew on this server. Never wanted to make a back handed or snarky comment to other guilds when posting. But I see that’s changed as he spends more time around his new riot buddy’s while they Zerg gang bang the server in to the ground. I’m sorry you lost your way buddy.

Littul is in Aftermath, not Riot.

His Sig says recruitment officer of Azure Guard.

Fingering all the pies!

[Littul Jonn]

lol still an app in AM, i'll update the sig if i get in :D Little out of character for me to start a thread in here (and i was a little buzzed off some Rainier beers haha) but it's what I was getting at in the last thread I started (Beware the Ides of March).

For a long time Nilbog and Rogen said this server should stay competitive instead of introducing features like instances or GM enforced rotations. I just see the change they made to the game reducing the number of encounters you can actually compete on. Sure any guild could invite anyone and everyone to join their guild to compete in the new meta, however, in a game that is slowly bleeding members I think the changes will ultimately doom p99 blue. It was more enjoyable to me when several smaller guilds were able to compete for targets, but these are just one Bards thoughts and opinions :D

[Endonde]

lol still an app in AM, i'll update the sig if i get in :D Little out of character for me to start a thread in here (and i was a little buzzed off some Rainier beers haha) but it's what I was getting at in the last thread I started (Beware the Ides of March).

For a long time Nilbog and Rogen said this server should stay competitive instead of introducing features like instances or GM enforced rotations. I just see the change they made to the game reducing the number of encounters you can actually compete on. Sure any guild could invite anyone and everyone to join their guild to compete in the new meta, however, in a game that is slowly bleeding members I think the changes will ultimately doom p99 blue. It was more enjoyable to me when several smaller guilds were able to compete for targets, but these are just one Bards thoughts and opinions :D


I kind of agree, but I don't know how we get back to that point, 1 hour lock outs were nice for smaller guilds but the bigger guilds ended up ruining that, 2 repops a month was nice too but the requirements on pulling dragons to zone in ToV excluded many guilds unfortunately. C/R/FFA was a decent system in hindsight, and I think it's probably the best solution to the current raid scene but it isn't perfect, as it stands now though smaller guilds are just going to continue to die off or be absorbed by the top 2 guilds, and that sucks.

[baakss]

lol still an app in AM, i'll update the sig if i get in :D Little out of character for me to start a thread in here (and i was a little buzzed off some Rainier beers haha) but it's what I was getting at in the last thread I started (Beware the Ides of March).

For a long time Nilbog and Rogen said this server should stay competitive instead of introducing features like instances or GM enforced rotations. I just see the change they made to the game reducing the number of encounters you can actually compete on. Sure any guild could invite anyone and everyone to join their guild to compete in the new meta, however, in a game that is slowly bleeding members I think the changes will ultimately doom p99 blue. It was more enjoyable to me when several smaller guilds were able to compete for targets, but these are just one Bards thoughts and opinions :D

I think AM can compete, they're just not doing so. On Vulak last night, AM/Aegis was rocking 130ish people in zone. How many trash mobs did they kill clearing down? How many guards did they kill? How many times did they attempt Vulak?

Your issue is that if you challenge your competition to do something new, they might rise to that challenge. It's a way more depressing feeling to sit back and watch than it is to try something big and fail.

Personally, I would have had a lot more respect for AM if they had gone big instead of cowering and hoping for a free Vulak.

[Baylan295]

I think AM can compete, they're just not doing so. On Vulak last night, AM/Aegis was rocking 130ish people in zone. How many trash mobs did they kill clearing down? How many guards did they kill? How many times did they attempt Vulak?

Your issue is that if you challenge your competition to do something new, they might rise to that challenge. It's a way more depressing feeling to sit back and watch than it is to try something big and fail.

Personally, I would have had a lot more respect for AM if they had gone big instead of cowering and hoping for a free Vulak.

0. 0. 0.

[Vallaen]

Grats on vulak and vox

[Mblake81]

Littul jonn was one of the most positive people I knew on this server. Never wanted to make a back handed or snarky comment to other guilds when posting. But I see that’s changed as he spends more time around his new riot buddy’s while they Zerg gang bang the server in to the ground. I’m sorry you lost your way buddy.

Littul is in Aftermath, not Riot.

Well, crap on me.

https://i.imgur.com/sqqS3Rt.gif

[Littul Jonn]

I think AM can compete, they're just not doing so. On Vulak last night, AM/Aegis was rocking 130ish people in zone. How many trash mobs did they kill clearing down? How many guards did they kill? How many times did they attempt Vulak?

Your issue is that if you challenge your competition to do something new, they might rise to that challenge. It's a way more depressing feeling to sit back and watch than it is to try something big and fail.

Personally, I would have had a lot more respect for AM if they had gone big instead of cowering and hoping for a free Vulak.

You're right, the AM + Aegis didn't go for it with 4 Guards and perhaps we coukd have. Something to learn for the next time.

The greater issue im getting at here is just my personal dissatisfaction with two mega guilds competing for stuff instead of allowing several smaller guilds to be able to compete.

Without rooted dragons, a larger number of guilds could compete because you only needed a few key players and classes and a little luck with spawns. Now you need a lot of time (to clear to the mob) and players ( to kill mob + adds).

Not all guilds have access to those resources and with player numbers dropping it will lead to less actual competition, in my opinion.

[baakss]

You're right, the AM + Aegis didn't go for it with 4 Guards and perhaps we coukd have. Something to learn for the next time.

The greater issue im getting at here is just my personal dissatisfaction with two mega guilds competing for stuff instead of allowing several smaller guilds to be able to compete.

Without rooted dragons, a larger number of guilds could compete because you only needed a few key players and classes and a little luck with spawns. Now you need a lot of time (to clear to the mob) and players ( to kill mob + adds).

Not all guilds have access to those resources and with player numbers dropping it will lead to less actual competition, in my opinion.


Ah, I see. To be fair, this still has a more classic feel to it though. On my server on live, there were really only two contenders for Velious raid targets, and they were quite large.

There are targets smaller guilds could compete for too. For example, Kittens, could FTE and kill a Statue or Tormax or Dain if they parked out there ready to go.

The problem isn't really the difficulty of the targets themselves, so much as it is you need to keep your character there and ready to go in case one of them spawns, and you need people willing to wait all day for a chance to race for them. Multiple raid-ready 60's is a luxury very few guilds have.

I guess my point is rooted dragons does hurt smaller guilds' ability to compete, but there are other very valid reasons they're not doing so as well.

[Dugface]

Still, even if it meant you could kill dragons with fewer people, the whole concept of pulling dragons to ToV zone in is silly. Zone line pulls are quite ridiculous really... Statue, Tormax, Vulak..

[Viscere]

Grats on vulak and vox

Vox?

You mean train simulator 2019?

[Molitoth]

The greater issue im getting at here is just my personal dissatisfaction with two mega guilds competing for stuff instead of allowing several smaller guilds to be able to compete.

PS/Core/AG sat and watched AM dominate for months with their 100+ force grabbing 90% of the content.

Having 2 mega guilds is a shit load better than AM vs many small guilds working against each other.

[Mblake81]

a few key players and classes and a little luck


with player numbers dropping

Looks like you might be getting what you want soon. Perhaps when server pop is around 600 on a repop weekend then the GMs will not see reason to root the dragons anymore. Just a few guys can pull to zone in, get pixels. It's just too hard to do the game now that people know you can shortcut it for maximum gainz.

[Mblake81]

And that it went on like that for years. Forget real classic, pulling to the zone in is classic P99 and has been for players who never did original EQ.

[Swish2]

real classic

classic P99

What kind of classic do people want?

[Ruhtar]

Grats on vulak and vox

Yeah, guess you guys were sleeping or BBQing for all the other kills.

Vox?

You mean train simulator 2019?

Pretty sure every guild on the server was there to help out on that one.

[Hideousclaw]

PS/Core/AG sat and watched AM dominate for months with their 100+ force grabbing 90% of the content.

And in the final few cycles AG got into ToV after building up the coth mages and force, and we did well for ourselves as a casual-leaning guild. Then meta changed and, as a casual leaning guild, we quickly learned the new meta is not easily done casually.

Who knows how things would've shaken out if rooting didn't happen? At first I liked rooted dragons, now I don't. Its an exclusive club now, one I do not want to be in. All the dragons take twice as many players attempting it than needed, even with them being over-tuned.

[Wonkie]

What kind of classic do people want?

classic p99 is how EQ would play if it came out recently. that's bad.

shutup blake

[Mblake81]

What kind of classic do people want?

shutup blake

handswash.jpeg

[Molitoth]

Its an exclusive club now, one I do not want to be in. All the dragons take twice as many players attempting it than needed, even with them being over-tuned.

You what's an exclusive club? The monk and mage FTE team vs unrooted dragons.

Everyone else stares at a wall at zone in.

[Molitoth]

In before grammar police...

"You know what's..."

[Worry]

I like you Littul but the fact you prefer the zoneline conveyor belt where 98% of the raid does nothing and gets loot over rooted dragons baffles me.

Best change P99 has made ever IMO.

[azeth]

Best change P99 has made ever IMO.

[Littul Jonn]

I like you Littul but the fact you prefer the zoneline conveyor belt where 98% of the raid does nothing and gets loot over rooted dragons baffles me.

Best change P99 has made ever IMO.

I agree the conveyor is a bit silly, but before I understood how it worked I was upset. Once I understood all the mechanics behind it and the level of skill required to successfully complete those pulls I was more motivated to play and attempt to compete in that arena. (Not inferring you don't understand the mechanics)

I think the thing that most disappoints me about the tenancy to lean on the rooted raid targets as a fix to CSR problems is it changes the resource needed to compete from skill to bodies. Sure you need to know how to play your class and you cant just warm body it into North and come up with a kill but numbers are a far more scarce resource in this game. I think building a system (rooted raid targets) based on numbers required is going to kill the actual competition on this server and it will be just like any one of the instanced servers come March of next year. Hopefully i'm wrong.

[lifewater]

I agree the conveyor is a bit silly, but before I understood how it worked I was upset. Once I understood all the mechanics behind it and the level of skill required to successfully complete those pulls I was more motivated to play and attempt to compete in that arena. (Not inferring you don't understand the mechanics)

I think the thing that most disappoints me about the tenancy to lean on the rooted raid targets as a fix to CSR problems is it changes the resource needed to compete from skill to bodies. Sure you need to know how to play your class and you cant just warm body it into North and come up with a kill but numbers are a far more scarce resource in this game. I think building a system (rooted raid targets) based on numbers required is going to kill the actual competition on this server and it will be just like any one of the instanced servers come March of next year. Hopefully i'm wrong.

What your saying is true, but its important to note that the "skill" portion of that explanation is referring to the tiny team of pullers to get the dragon to the zone cleanly. The content was done with less people at zoneline not because people were more skilled, but because there was nothing to overcome but the dragon.

I feel like the current meta requires more skill, or at least it requires skill from more people aside from 5 key players, especially on the actual dragon engages. It also forces more personal responsibility on classes other then pullers. Pullers are still critical, but since dragons are rooted. you need to deal with guards and there is more chaos going on general. Multiple tanks, split healing, kiting and all this other nonsense that simply didn't happen before. Also specific to our current meta, leapfrogging is a possibility, so there's now an increased risk needed to secure kills (killing multiple guards). Overall I feel like there's more thought involved then there ever was before.

If I remember right....a few cycles ago AM was taking some serious risks with new coth locations (I think it was dagarn/kriezan?). Something that never would of happen in the previous meta. So while this meta ups to entry requirements for guilds, its also forces guilds to think outside the box a bit.

And also as far as I know (I'm a new P99 compared to veterans), this last few months has been the most competitive that ToV has seen in a long time. Two whole guilds are competing regularly! :P But seriously we've also seen AEGIS and other guilds make their way in to NToV as well occasionally. It feels healthy to me.

[Halfcell]

Ah, I see. To be fair, this still has a more classic feel to it though. On my server on live, there were really only two contenders for Velious raid targets, and they were quite large.
.

This. Only having 2 guilds that compete at the top end is pretty classic IMO. Hell on Drinal Cats In Hats was literally the only guild in NToV until well into Luclin.

[Vallaen]

Before the dragons were rooted on a earthquake there would be

AG
BG
Core
AM
PS
Kittens
Tempest

Cant say this is the healthiest the raid scene has been.

[feniin]

Kittens got more dragons after rooting fwiw

[Ripqozko]

Kittens got more dragons after rooting fwiw

That’s mostly cause bagel is baller

[Kayso2]

Before the dragons were rooted on a earthquake there would be

AG
BG
Core
AM
PS
Kittens
Tempest

Cant say this is the healthiest the raid scene has been.

So the raid scene was healthiest when AM was getting most of the mobs most of the time? You don't say! I can't imagine why you would think that...

Think about it this way. All the experts say that crying is good for your emotional health. So even if the raid scene isn't at it's peak health, you're still reaping personal benefits! Enjoy your tranquil state of mind, friend.

[Ripqozko]

So the raid scene was healthiest when AM was getting most of the mobs most of the time? You don't say! I can't imagine why you would think that...

Think about it this way. All the experts say that crying is good for your emotional health. So even if the raid scene isn't at it's peak health, you're still reaping personal benefits! Enjoy your tranquil state of mind, friend.

Probably so, ask yourself on kunark mobs do they compete against AM or riot more ?

[Molitoth]

Before the dragons were rooted on a earthquake there would be

AG
BG
Core
AM
PS
Kittens
Tempest

Cant say this is the healthiest the raid scene has been.

Don't kid yourself. PS/BG/Kittens and most of the time Core were not competing in NToV.

It was AM vs Tempest... then AG for a bit.
It's been 2 guilds with AM winning 3/4 (or more) of the content well before rooted dragons.

[Nuggie]

Those that are getting less loot after the rooted dragons are complaining(through any means necessary). Those that are getting more are happy about it. How cliche.

The only thing I can think nearly the whole time I spent reading this thread is: how bad is Riot screwing up PR that despite all the bullshit AM put us Casual Scum Guilds through it was a better choice for him to app AM over Riot...

[Kayso2]

If you predicted Riot would be the top guild on the server the day CorPSe merged, you're Nostradumbass trying to get away with revising history. AM was still the top guild and should have remained so.

Within days of forming, Riot was inundated with applications. There's a reason all those people chose Riot over AM which was the safer bet at the time... Want to guess what the big reason was?

Riot is not perfect. But if Riot really does have a PR problem, it certainly doesn't have a PR problem compared to AM. If it did, all those apps would have gone to AM and this thread wouldn't exist.

[Littul Jonn]

If you predicted Riot would be the top guild on the server the day CorPSe merged, you're Nostradumbass trying to get away with revising history. AM was still the top guild and should have remained so.

Within days of forming, Riot was inundated with applications. There's a reason all those people chose Riot over AM which was the safer bet at the time... Want to guess what the big reason was?

Riot is not perfect. But if Riot really does have a PR problem, it certainly doesn't have a PR problem compared to AM. If it did, all those apps would have gone to AM and this thread wouldn't exist.

There was a DKP bidding war over the top raiders in AG as far as I know so that had a part to play. AM definitely didnt have a sterling reputation at the time.

All i can say knowing people on both sides is now, if half the people who bailed for riot said half the things they said while in other guilds (there should be a guild population limit, mobs should be rotated, too guilds shouldnt cherry pick velious and vanilla content, etc) then maybe we could just compete over the fun mobs like vulak, doze, ststue, and KT etc and get on with our lives.

[feniin]

There was a DKP bidding war over the top raiders in AG as far as I know so that had a part to play. AM definitely didnt have a sterling reputation at the time.

All i can say knowing people on both sides is now, if half the people who bailed for riot said half the things they said while in other guilds (there should be a guild population limit, mobs should be rotated, too guilds shouldnt cherry pick velious and vanilla content, etc) then maybe we could just compete over the fun mobs like vulak, doze, ststue, and KT etc and get on with our lives.

Sounds like buyer's remorse. All of the AG guys I've met in Riot are having a ball :D

[stowned]

as far as I know

:confused:

[Neuroscar]

There was a DKP bidding war over the top raiders in AG as far as I know so that had a part to play.

Not true.
Only happened with ex-Omni members ^^

[angfonz]

There was a DKP bidding war over the top raiders in AG as far as I know so that had a part to play.

AM offered a DKP signing bonus and instant full membership.

Riot offered nothing.

[Valakut]

AM offered a DKP signing bonus and instant full membership.

Riot offered nothing.

Did AG offer to allow you to keep both testicles?

[Oldschoolplayer]

Correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding was that the dragon root mechanics were used as a way to move away from the zone in pulls which frequently caused petitions and also as a way to make guilds prioritize targets- since the time taken would increase, which in theory would allow the possibility of another guild a opportunity to work toward a target if it was up.

The first earthquake after the change when there were more guilds in ToV than now and the change in theory allowed those smaller guilds to work toward a target while those bigger guilds were working toward a target.

Now, however the mechanics benefit a zerg or more players. More players allow you to leapfrog, set up quicker and ultimately get targets more easily at varied times.

If you were to end the root and go back to old mechanics the problem is the raid scene still greatly benefits those bigger guilds. When you have 5+ members going for the FTE in a large guild vs 1 or 2 FTE'ers of a small guild, it still benefits the large guild.

Anyway you cut it, the end raid scene benefits larger guilds. Not saying that's wrong or unfair, it's just what it is.

The question I think to satisfy all parties is how to have a healthy playing environment, competition and opportunities for different playing styles/schedules an enjoyable experience.

Could be wrong. I don't pretend to know the answer to this riddle of where we are at. However it seems the majority of the server are unhappy with what has become. Some do not mind the zerg others find it a unenjoyable experience. Granted if you are getting the majority of the targets of course you would be happy compared to not getting targets

[feniin]

more earthquakes is the best solution.

[Oldschoolplayer]

more earthquakes is the best solution.


Could be. From what I can make of it, the earthquakes makes guilds prioritize a target and allow other guilds a chance at a target. Pretty much a reactive strategy to large guilds dominating the majority of the content and smaller guilds looking to enjoy more targets with their status quo.

[24kanthony]

more earthquakes is the best solution.

"They don’t fucking give Ferraris away, son! They make ’em by hand.” - Joe Rogan

[reznor_]

more earthquakes is the best solution.

[k9quaint]

"They don’t fucking give Ferraris away, son! They make ’em by hand.” - Joe Rogan

More hand made earthquakes.

[Kazik]

If you were to end the root and go back to old mechanics the problem is the raid scene still greatly benefits those bigger guilds. When you have 5+ members going for the FTE in a large guild vs 1 or 2 FTE'ers of a small guild, it still benefits the large guild.


When did you have 5+ members of the same guild going for FTE?

In the old meta having giant numbers didn’t give you an advantage because you could only have a **maximum** of two players in North ToV or be DQ’d on a spawn. You’d have to prioritize where to place those two CoTH mages, group then with an FTE’r, have a guy on hub tag, and that’s it. Anybody from the raid could hall tag.

Four. People.

[Kazik]

Inbefore people complain I didn’t mention a possible backup/secondary and trainup bringing the total to a zerg of six people.

[angfonz]

He's clearly talking about Statue, Tormax, Tunare, etc.
But, you're also just misremembering Ntov.
Sure, 2 coth mages coth folks up, like you said. But they could coth a puller for FTE, then have the second mage along the pull path coth 2-3 for secondary. Having a large guild also allowed you to immediately flood North from zone line with monks to brute force the pull in.

[Kazik]

He's clearly talking about Statue, Tormax, Tunare, etc.
But, you're also just misremembering Ntov.
Sure, 2 coth mages coth folks up, like you said. But they could coth a puller for FTE, then have the second mage along the pull path coth 2-3 for secondary. Having a large guild also allowed you to immediately flood North from zone line with monks to brute force the pull in.

Most mobs were won within the first 12.5 seconds.

[angfonz]

Inbefore people complain I didn’t mention a possible backup/secondary and trainup bringing the total to a zerg of six people.

Yeah. Because that's, like, what happened.

[Kazik]

Same thing with Statue and KT... the bottleneck was your two mages.

[angfonz]

Most mobs were won within the first 12.5 seconds.

Because most mobs were FTE'd by a large guild doing exactly what I said to make sure a pull got to zone line. Getting Vulak to zone in with 2 pullers wouldn't have been anything close to a sure thing.

[Kazik]

Because most mobs were FTE'd by a large guild doing exactly what I said to make sure a pull got to zone line. Getting Vulak to zone in with 2 pullers wouldn't have been anything close to a sure thing.

Of course it wasn’t guaranteed but most mobs were in fact won within a split second after CoTH hit. There’s a reason why the likes of Kelza could carry Tempest on their back.

I do feel bad for all the AG guys who put in the work only to have the meta changed over night. They were coming on strong and making a lot of wins.

Anyway, I need to remind myself not to bother coming here. Lots of clueless people commenting on something they were probably never a part of.

[24kanthony]

I've been out of the high end scene since before the roots. Is VP still the last zone where you can raid like god intended?

[Oldschoolplayer]

I think a lot of the player made agreements on rotating some high end targets like we see now, and recently proposed will probably make for an overall healthier, and more enjoyable raiding experience for a lot of players. And I don't think you have to completely rid all competition.

I can only speak for myself, but what I enjoy most about raiding is more the adventure working together with your friends killing a mystical creature. And I think in many ways, some of the smaller guilds are just looking for that experience with some higher end targets that have been increasingly more difficult to achieve due to many variables and mechanics.

[Viscere]

Green and wow classic bout to be out

I dont understand all the salt about blue

[shuklak]

Green and wow classic bout to be out

I dont understand all the salt about blue

This is all that's left.