Rooted Dragons and FTE foot races. Failed experiments

[Hyjalx]

I hate to say it, but they are both failed experiments.

We are years into Velious and the current meta is throwing 100+ people at targets that can be done with 30-40 or less on a 10 year old server. The list of guilds that have crumbled because of this is staggering. The current rules have ultimately caused guild attrition, community upheaval, and soon to be a monopolization of content.

Requiring an 80+ man raid force to even have a chance on smaller targets in WToV is just not sustainable, and frankly, its just not good for the community.


The 4-way and zone in should remain safe, but dragons should still be pullable as long as they remain in the wing in which they spawn.


Foot Racing is also a failed experiment.

Forcing players to foot race is actually pretty ridiculous. It was abused by alt-tabbers for quite some time until the levi requirement, but it still encourages intense wall staring by multiple players using google hangouts rather than 2 with a mage. It's also essentially a mini-game within itself where some players PRACTICE the routes (there are arcade games like this) to perfection. How many players outside the big 2 actually have a shot against this? Meta EQ always required mage teams. Every guild has a spare mage by now and someone willing to hit the COTH button.

We have repeated history on p99 several times. We always change the rules, just to end up going back to the way things were. I hate to say it, but I think this is another one of those times.

[feniin]

Sounds like you need to git gud? Put in the work, get the mobs. Stop relying on 1-2 people to feed you loot.

[ErlickBachman]

I hate to say it, but I'm mad because I'm bad.

10992

[YendorLootmonkey]

Work for them loots... no more handouts at the zoneline for the 95% not involved in the tracking, FTE, or pulling/tagging.

[kaizersoze]

"Competition is good!!" they cried. Until all the little little guilds amalgamate into one or two superforces and everyone screams "monopolization is bad! BUT WE DONT WANT INSTANCES SO WE DONT HAVE TO SOCK FOR 16 HOURS A DAY JUST TO SEE A MOB LET ALONE TOUCH IT."

[Hyjalx]

Are any of you actually reading the post. The 4-way and zone in should have always been safe.

And little guilds? Riot leadership > Core > Awakened

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[Littul Jonn]

Are any of you actually reading the post. The 4-way and zone in should have always been safe.

And little guilds? Riot leadership > Core > Awakened

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

We must have had the same type of coffee this morning or something haha. I posted a thread about pretty much the same thing same time you did haha

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don’t have to read the post. The two guilds I belonged to essentially left the server for greener pastures due to the "you don't put in the work, you don't deserve the loot" barrier to entry for raiding. So I am completely for making it as difficult, manpower-intensive, and time-consuming as possible for ANYONE to get fancy pixels so everyone can eat their words.

Viva la Vesica Dei!
Viva la BDA!

[Hyjalx]

And I applaud Riot for what they have done. Many friends within the guild. It's meta for the current rules in place.

The rules are just not classic and are someones idea of the game.

[ajohnymous]

The game itself lacks fundamental infrastructure for raiding to make sense.

Take a look at what Blizzard does best: taking a game with a solid concept, polishing it up, and making it more appealing for a wider player base. They took one look at Everquest dungeons and raids and went, NOPE! Instances, baby! It worked so well that later EQ expansions added them.

On top of that, we've had years of "solutions" where the server developers fix one problem by adding another. "We have a serious rat problem on the island, let's release a shit ton of mongooses to kill them all! Okay, great, what are we going to do to keep the mongoose population in check?" 30 years later...

Hyjal, you can point fingers at certain groups of players and specific problems in specific zones, but what it comes down to is the game's infrastructure. P99 is unique, in both it's appeal and problems, that is simply comes down to how well people work together and communicate. Unfortunately, we all know how well that goes.

[Hyjalx]

Changing the game has never worked on p99. We are only months in and there are obvious problems already. What makes this change different? This is a glorified beta test and its not working for the benefit of the community as a whole.

[ajohnymous]

The majority of players don't know what a Vulak is or where the halls of testing are. Rooted dragons don't mean shit to people who don't raid. The meta change means small and medium sized guilds can't reliably take down high tier content in ToV, and that sucks, but it's how the meta is right now.

[kaizersoze]

Its almost like in the expansions after Velious and Luclin they realized the way it was on classic fucking sucked for anyone who had a job. Who couldn't always wake up at absolutely retarded hours of the night to kill mobs. When green comes out I really do hope instances are what the custom content is. Leave group zones alone, but letting everyone see all the content once a week (hell make it every 2 weeks so people can space out their raids and balance a personal life so theyre not just staring at their screen like a junkie scratching their skin waiting for their next fix) would be better for literally everyone.

[mycoolrausch]

The game itself lacks fundamental infrastructure for raiding to make sense.

Take a look at what Blizzard does best: taking a game with a solid concept, polishing it up, and making it more appealing for a wider player base. They took one look at Everquest dungeons and raids and went, NOPE! Instances, baby! It worked so well that later EQ expansions added them.

On top of that, we've had years of "solutions" where the server developers fix one problem by adding another. "We have a serious rat problem on the island, let's release a shit ton of mongooses to kill them all! Okay, great, what are we going to do to keep the mongoose population in check?" 30 years later...

Hyjal, you can point fingers at certain groups of players and specific problems in specific zones, but what it comes down to is the game's infrastructure. P99 is unique, in both it's appeal and problems, that is simply comes down to how well people work together and communicate. Unfortunately, we all know how well that goes.

Yeah this is a free game that is polished to its original retail level and well maintained with a lively active playerbase and good support staff. Despite that, drawing from the entire population of planet earth, it can't attract more than a couple thousand nostalgia questers that built up a tolerance for the bad design 20 years ago returning to relive it.

Uninstanced content is just that universally unappealing to everyone, because it turns out taking the effort to log into an RPG, make your character, and then stand around with nothing to do because all the content was cleared by somebody else is, well, stupid.

[Fifield]

With high number guilds competing for mobs the crawl will no longer happen, it will turn into a train away trash while killing a dragon like predicted.

There will be tons of players that will still log in to kill these dragons throughout this meta.

[Nibblewitz]

Just as Alexander Fleming stumbled upon the usefulness of moldy cheese, Rogean and Nilbog have discovered a treatment for Doljonijiarnimorinar flare-ups.

[Oleris]

Rooted dragons are fun when there's a quake and you can decide to clear from eashen, trips, sisters or go west. Not as much when they are spread out over 3 days.

[Cecily]

Just as Alexander Fleming stumbled upon the usefulness of moldy cheese, Rogean and Nilbog have discovered a treatment for Doljonijiarnimorinar flare-ups.

You need to eat more L-lysine to help with that.

[reznor_]

Rooted dragons are fun when there's a quake and you can decide to clear from eashen, trips, sisters or go west. Not as much when they are spread out over 3 days.

[Prostatus]

1-3 Quakes a month would mean even <Qeynos Fishing Club> could get a raid mob

[Dugface]

Rooted dragons are fun when there's a quake and you can decide to clear from eashen, trips, sisters or go west. Not as much when they are spread out over 3 days.

Great point. ToV and Rooted dragons is really designed for going from one dragon to the next in sequential order. Even with a quake, this isn't really happening since raids will hop over certain dragons to get to others first. The only way for NToV to be experienced how it should truly be is to have rotations.

[Jimjam]

Any 'instance' vendor that sells items to ports to instances would make a great play sink.

The immediate hurdle I see is how to make the right people end up in the right instance. Might require the activation of the raid tool, adventure windows or whatever.

[loramin]

Great point. ToV and Rooted dragons is really designed for going from one dragon to the next in sequential order. Even with a quake, this isn't really happening since raids will hop over certain dragons to get to others first. The only way for NToV to be experienced how it should truly be is to have rotations.

But here on P99 the non-classic competition meta-game is more important than classically playing the actual (ie. dragon fighting) game of EverQuest. Just ask anyone :rolleyes:

[derpcake2]

itt: low effort players with entitlement issues

[Nuggie]

Hyjal, your troll post was well placed. Squarely in RnF where it was destined to reside.

May it live in infamy as the post from the group that treated the rest of the server like lesser mortals for so long then had the table flipped so hard they cried uncle.

I think the new meta is being inclusive rather then exclusive. That must be one he'll of a culture shock.

[Fifield]

See you in ironforge !

Did you mean barrens? :D

[Endonde]

With high number guilds competing for mobs the crawl will no longer happen, it will turn into a train away trash while killing a dragon like predicted.

There will be tons of players that will still log in to kill these dragons throughout this meta.

This.

Crawls are nice on paper, but in reality it's not really working out as the staff intended. Instead of training dragons now you just train trash. Now instead of needing 30-40 to kill a dragon you need 80+ and the biggest guild tends to have a huge advantage, so we've all but killed all the smaller guilds who had hopes of killing ToV targets. It heavily encourages leap frogging in the patch that released rooted dragons Rogean states that leapfrogging isn't against the rules but it's an asshole move, but guilds have no choice but to leapfrog if there is only one dragon up and 2 guilds are going for that dragon it's just natural that someone is going to have to sit back and pick there moment to jump ahead.

I just hate that we've basically killed all the small guilds at this point, looking at the list of old Kunark guilds, and the early Velious guilds, and then looking at the list of current raiding guilds makes me sad.

[Convict]

With high number guilds competing for mobs the crawl will no longer happen, it will turn into a train away trash while killing a dragon like predicted.

There will be tons of players that will still log in to kill these dragons throughout this meta.

well said 100% accurate

[gkmarino]

Bring back Braknar the Great!

[Hideousclaw]

Bring back Braknar the Great!

Braknar died for our rooted dragons

[Nexii]

Raid rules tend to benefit the top 1% of raiders, whether by intent or not.

COTH racing was killed cause it could be botted. Only a matter of time till someone writes a bot to foot race perfectly. Many other games have had TAS bots, if you think it can't be done for EQ you're wrong.

The idea of one person being the determinant of whether a guild gets to attempt a target is ridiculous. Even guild wide DPS racing would be better. Other alternatives? I don't know. FTE with being allowed to camp out on bosses might work too. So many targets in Velious plus most of those targets would not quite be possible to instant engage on pop.

[Twochain]

Hyjal, your troll post was well placed. Squarely in RnF where it was destined to reside.

May it live in infamy as the post from the group that treated the rest of the server like lesser mortals for so long then had the table flipped so hard they cried uncle.

I think the new meta is being inclusive rather then exclusive. That must be one he'll of a culture shock.

Do you even play on p99? lmao

I agree with a lot of what Hyjal said. The experiment may have "Failed" due to red not being able to raid ToV anymore. Adjustments need to be made no doubt.

But I am having fun. I did like the older metas better. And I also like the raid scene being freshened up.

[Legidias]

How many days has it been since the last big Hyjal crazy outburst?

[loramin]

And I also like the raid scene being freshened up.

I'm not sure it's a good thing that for ten years this server has tried unclassic raid mechanisms, and for ten years none of them have ever lasted.

It seems to me a good emulated server (of any game, not picking on P99 devs, just speaking abstractly) would get itself working the way the original it's trying to emulate did ... and then stop changing. You know, the way everything else except raiding works on P99 (because the devs are incredible and awesome at re-creating classic EQ except when the raid scene makes them lose their minds and forget what was classic).

But without our rooted dragons and FTE messages, how can we possibly play classic EverQuest, you ask? By trying something truly new, 100% classic, and 100% successful whenever it's been tried (in a limited fashion) on the server: rotations.

Of course, I know it will never happen: why have people raiding the way people raided in '99-'01 when we can keep making up new non-EQ games every so often, amiright?

But I'll keep shouting against the wind anyway.

[YendorLootmonkey]

But without our rooted dragons and FTE messages, how can we possibly play classic EverQuest, you ask? By trying something truly new, 100% classic, and 100% successful whenever it's been tried (in a limited fashion) on the server: rotations.


0% successful to those whose sole enjoyment in the game is denying pixels to others.

[Endonde]

I'm not sure it's a good thing that for ten years this server has tried unclassic raid mechanisms, and for ten years none of them have ever lasted.

It seems to me a good emulated server (of any game, not picking on P99 devs, just speaking abstractly) would get itself working the way the original it's trying to emulate did ... and then stop changing. You know, the way everything else except raiding works on P99 (because the devs are incredible and awesome at re-creating classic EQ except when the raid scene makes them lose their minds and forget what was classic).

But without our rooted dragons and FTE messages, how can we possibly play classic EverQuest, you ask? By trying something truly new, 100% classic, and 100% successful whenever it's been tried (in a limited fashion) on the server: rotations.

Of course, I know it will never happen: why have people raiding the way people raided in '99-'01 when we can keep making up new non-EQ games every so often, amiright?

But I'll keep shouting against the wind anyway.

You realize that casual guilds used to have a rotation on P99 right, and it wasn't exactly successful it created tons of drama. Too many guilds tried to enter the rotation so guilds would get a dragon like Gorenaire once every 4-6 months, smaller guilds that couldn't kill things on their own would team up with other smaller guilds but still maintain separate slots in the rotation, This upset the larger guilds in the rotation who felt the smaller guilds were double dipping, but the guilds couldn't find a compromise and eventually the larger guilds broke the rotation and the smaller guilds formed CSG to compete against them.

Rotations are neither original or 100% successful when it comes to P99, I personally liked the old class system where the casual rotation existed, but I also understand that the rotation was extremely flawed and it was always destined for failure.

[loramin]

You realize that casual guilds used to have a rotation on P99 right, and it wasn't exactly successful it created tons of drama. Too many guilds tried to enter the rotation so guilds would get a dragon like Gorenaire once every 4-6 months, smaller guilds that couldn't kill things on their own would team up with other smaller guilds but still maintain separate slots in the rotation, This upset the larger guilds in the rotation who felt the smaller guilds were double dipping, but the guilds couldn't find a compromise and eventually the larger guilds broke the rotation and the smaller guilds formed CSG to compete against them.

Rotations are neither original or 100% successful when it comes to P99, I personally liked the old class system where the casual rotation existed, but I also understand that the rotation was extremely flawed and it was always destined for failure.

If you're referring to the Class C/R stuff, that was not a rotation (so it doesn't count, either as failed or successful).

[Endonde]

If you're referring to the Class C/R stuff, that was not a rotation (so it doesn't count, either as failed or successful).

I forgot that you are the rotations expert, and only your opinion on the subject is right, my mistake.

[Wonkie]

If you're referring to the Class C/R stuff, that was not a rotation (so it doesn't count, either as failed or successful).

wasn't it something silly like Class C(competitive), FFA, Class R(rotation)

so yeah a system that only rotates 1/3 of the mobs would be destined to fail. it was an effort made in bad faith to 'disprove' the dialectic.

[Psyborg]

I forgot that you are the rotations expert, and only your opinion on the subject is right, my mistake.

Doesn’t sound like he’s suggesting or displaying that at all. He wasn’t being a dick to you so don’t be a dick to him.

[loramin]

I forgot that you are the rotations expert, and only your opinion on the subject is right, my mistake.

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

[loramin]

wasn't it something silly like Class C(competitive), FFA, Class R(rotation)

so yeah a system that only rotates 1/3 of the mobs would be destined to fail. it was an effort made in bad faith to 'disprove' the dialectic.

I remember them not being rotations (even with class R guilds it wasn't like "A-Team you've got Goreanaire on Tuesday"). I remember them being more like "competition groups": class C guilds competed with other class C guilds and likewise class R guilds with other class R guilds. It's entirely possible my memory is off though, as this was awhile ago and I smoke a lot of pot.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

It was the only way the competitive guilds would even come to the table to discuss anything involving a rotation.

[aaezil]

The game itself lacks fundamental infrastructure for raiding to make sense.

Take a look at what Blizzard does best: taking a game with a solid concept, polishing it up, and making it more appealing for a wider player base. They took one look at Everquest dungeons and raids and went, NOPE! Instances, baby! It worked so well that later EQ expansions added them.

On top of that, we've had years of "solutions" where the server developers fix one problem by adding another. "We have a serious rat problem on the island, let's release a shit ton of mongooses to kill them all! Okay, great, what are we going to do to keep the mongoose population in check?" 30 years later...

Hyjal, you can point fingers at certain groups of players and specific problems in specific zones, but what it comes down to is the game's infrastructure. P99 is unique, in both it's appeal and problems, that is simply comes down to how well people work together and communicate. Unfortunately, we all know how well that goes.


Instancing wasnt the magic potion that saved everquest. It makes the world disjointed and kills competition.

Its the constant flow of new expansions that really makes EQ raiding make sense. The no lifers could go poopsock the latest and greatest pixels and the cool normal people could raid more at their own pace.

Eq just was not designed for time locked Velious and no amount of band aid server rules will make end game any better here.

[Endonde]

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

That is literally how the Class R rotation worked...

They went down a list to determine what guild got the mob that week, they were restricted to 1/3rd of the mobs but before the rotation all the casual guilds combined would barely get any raid targets at all so 1/3rd was a huge step up. The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs, it might have taken longer for the problems to develop but they still would have developed.

[Wonkie]

The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs

how come

[loramin]

That is literally how the Class R rotation worked...

They went down a list to determine what guild got the mob that week, they were restricted to 1/3rd of the mobs but before the rotation all the casual guilds combined would barely get any raid targets at all so 1/3rd was a huge step up. The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs, it might have taken longer for the problems to develop but they still would have developed.
Completion groups != rotations ... unless you think every guild except the top two are the same guild :rolleyes:

[Wonkie]

how come

found the answer: it was a baseless assertion

[Danth]

I remember them not being rotations (even with class R guilds it wasn't like "A-Team you've got Goreanaire on Tuesday"). I remember them being more like "competition groups": class C guilds competed with other class C guilds and likewise class R guilds with other class R guilds. It's entirely possible my memory is off though, as this was awhile ago and I smoke a lot of pot.

What you're remembering is how the rule was formally spelled out. In practice all of the "class R" guilds decided as a player agreement to treat their portion of the spawns as a straight-up rotation. It worked decently for awhile. It was later on when a couple of the largest "class R" guilds decided to break the rotation that the project admins decided to wholly scrap the system for Velious launch.

--------------------------------------------

P99's raid rules, regardless of the specific rules used, will always be awful for the majority of players as long as the admins here continue thinking of EQ raiding as inter-guild competition. Fortunately it's a big game and there's a lot to do outside raids.

Danth

[Psyborg]

If it predated Velious launch then it hardly means much, truthfully.

[BallzDeep]

For the history on the rotation - it was C/R/FFA. C could kill anything. VP had no rotation. Lower mobs outside of VP, Trak, and VS, afaik, were C, R, FFA. This is a rotation. This is the defintion of a rotation but favored towards guilds that wanted to play more. It did not work. BDA that was in class R was starting to get unhappy at the amount of guilds that were joining the rotation. This was a rotation you had to qualify for. Slowly over time, there was so guilds killing stuff out of order, people broke from the rotations, etc. I think the wait time was around 3 months to get through full rotation again.

Yes, you can spawn more mobs but basically instancing is the same idea of giving everyone a shot with less complicated mechanics and you already have that on live. My opinion is if you want to recreate the classic experience, play the classic experience rulesets. If you want to recreate an old game with new rulesets, it's pretty much pointless to start in classic.

[Wonkie]

For the history on the rotation - it was C/R/FFA. C could kill anything. VP had no rotation. Lower mobs outside of VP, Trak, and VS, afaik, were C, R, FFA. This is a rotation

uh huh okay :rolleyes:

[Nuggie]

It worked decently for awhile. It was later on when a couple of the largest "class R" guilds decided to break the rotation that the project admins decided to wholly scrap the system for Velious launch.

Danth

IIRC rogean scraped it when Velious launched simply because Velious launched. I'm sure we could go forum investigator mode and find the truth, but meh.

As far as the rotation in R-class breaking up goes- the only one that ever threatened to break it up was the Lord Bob guild that... Hyjal formed twice? Plus a few swipes outside the rotation from a couple of the stronger/more skilled guilds. But it mostly went smoothly. No?


Whomever it was that asked about wether I play on P99 - I've been an active community member for 80% of the projects life since it launched. I went inactive about two years ago. I kept in relative regular contact with my guild leader in the duration. Are we measuring PETER'S or something? Am I current on raid drama? No, but from what I've seen on the forums the last two months not much has changed. I think that's sufficient enough knowledge of the P99 psychological experiment to fill in the gaps.

[Nuggie]

Mmm, I forgot about the Chest drama. He was a juicy RnF squeeze 24/7.

As far as the 3 months per rotation - it was that was on paper, but with how regular the EQ's were, plus what you could pick up from the FFA spawns, it was never close to that long.

The strategy on which FFA mob to go after was a mini-game all in itself.

[BallzDeep]

uh huh okay :rolleyes:

You must be dumb. You are grabbing two different sentences and combining them together. Doesn't surprise me in today's world. Context is everything. When referring to class R, it was a rotation. Even then it was based on a qualifier. If you are trying to prove me wrong by saying there shouldn't be a qualifier...….I'll stop there.

[Wonkie]

You must be dumb. You are grabbing two different sentences and combining them together. Doesn't surprise me in today's world. Context is everything. When referring to class R, it was a rotation. Even then it was based on a qualifier. If you are trying to prove me wrong by saying there shouldn't be a qualifier...….I'll stop there.

It's not a rotation if only 1/3 of the mobs are rotated.

hope this helps

[branamil]

Rooted dragons are only fun in quakes because you actually "crawl". After that you coth to a cheesy safe spot during the 16 hour unclassic spawn window and train away the 4-6 mobs in the way then smack the loot piñata. ToV is so unclassic right now I think p99 has strayed from its original mission statement and isn't fun anymore.

[aaezil]

I was told when i signed up i would be able to experience classic everquest as it was

[Mblake81]

https://i.imgur.com/BcF1fP7.png

[Wonkie]

Rooted dragons are only fun in quakes because you actually "crawl". After that you coth to a cheesy safe spot during the 16 hour unclassic spawn window and train away the 4-6 mobs in the way then smack the loot piñata. ToV is so unclassic right now I think p99 has strayed from its original mission statement and isn't fun anymore.

when you get so good at the game that you ruin your own fun, it's time to stop playing.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I was told when i signed up i would be able to experience classic everquest as it was

You should ask Rogean for your money back.

[shuklak]

Time is money.

[Mblake81]

Time is money.

Can't buy the time back to play the game like it was.

Min/Max'd our way to tears.

[Hyjalx]

The class system and sky rotation during Kunark was probably the most fun I have had on p99, but probably for all the wrong reasons, haha.

[zanderklocke]

Remember when Divinity, Taken, and BDA destroyed the class R rotation by requiring guilds to be able to kill Gorenaire solo within 3 hours of spawning (regardless of time of day) or you would be removed from the rotation on Trakanon, CT, Innoruuk, and Venril Sathir?

Wasn’t it also required that you had to do the same with Talendor to be able to kill Maestro of Rancor?

Also if I killed Gorenaire with help from another guild, I would be required to kill all other mobs like Maestro with that guild. /smh

I remember the big guilds picking the hardest mobs as gatekeepers for different “tiers” of mobs to hope that guilds would fail out of being allowed in the rotation.

I imagine that if there was a rotation now, Tunare and AOW would be the mobs BDA, Taken, and Divinity would require new guilds entering the rotation to kill to be allowed any mobs in ToV.

[Mblake81]

Its almost like in the expansions after Velious and Luclin they realized the way it was on classic fucking sucked for anyone who had a job. Who couldn't always wake up at absolutely retarded hours of the night to kill mobs. When green comes out I really do hope instances are what the custom content is. Leave group zones alone, but letting everyone see all the content once a week (hell make it every 2 weeks so people can space out their raids and balance a personal life so theyre not just staring at their screen like a junkie scratching their skin waiting for their next fix) would be better for literally everyone.

Yeah I don't get everything, I will never be L33t. Excuse me while I cry into my bowl of cheerios. Please add instances so I can leave P99 behind for good and enjoy more of summer. Call J.G. Wentworth, its your loot and you want it now!

these fucking crybabies, talking about real life, work and responsibilities and coming at us with this. How the hell has your boss not broke his foot off ankle deep in your bottoms yet?

I didn't get the loot back in era nor do I here, despite the meta being changed in my favor. What I do get is to play EQ as the designers intended. It is horrible to see pixels lust break a supposed adult this hard, how do you handle hardships in life and does the person whos shoulder you cry on ever tell you to fucking stop?

Good for all of us? count me out. I don't want to play your WoWesque , cater to me kindly and stroke my cock while I grin BS. I want to get kicked around and shit on. Life isn't a disney land fairly tale.

[Mblake81]

https://i.imgur.com/BOnKMPW.gif

[Dolalin]

ToV is endgame content. It should be difficult and require a lot of coordination with other people, and maybe even.. some non-AFK effort.

Pulls to zoneline were completely ridiculous and correlated to exactly 0 people's experiences of classic Velious raiding. It was an abomination.

ToV clears used to take most of an evening and require a 50-80 man raid force. Shit's classic. Deal.

[Xulia]

I want to get kicked around and shit on.

Here you go. (https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/211420/)

[Mblake81]

Here you go. (https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/211420/)

Yeah ill pass, I like PC games. P99 is all I play anyway, when I do play games. Isn't the min/max in those games to roll around, im sure I could manage but I honestly have no interest in the title. +1 for it not having MTX and roadmap design though.

Also got rid of steam awhile back, I avoid any and all digital stores. I have my own personal beefs with that. There are no hard copies, everything is made to baby powder our bottoms for maximum anal ease.

New queefs thinking STEAM is PC Gaming. I would be on Linux if they were doing something original designed for Linux only, instead they are trying to be Windows punk baby brother. Nothing of interest here. The barrier to entry would keep the 'I can't be bothered's' away. Trying to plug in their PS4 controller to play an MMORPG.

[Mblake81]

er, I did download The Dark Mod (http://www.thedarkmod.com/main/). I have been waiting to give it a try but everytime I play something its P99 when I have the time set aside to do it.

They set it in an alter world which bummed me out a bit, I guess that is how they bypassed the red tape nonsense. I do wonder where hardware accelerated sound design would be by now if Creative Labs and Vista hadn't killed it.

[azeth]

I actually can't believe people preferred pulling to the zone line or LTK exit. I really can't believe it.

[Xulia]

Yeah ill pass, I like PC games. P99 is all I play anyway, when I do play games.

Do you also own a car and drive it to one place every day?

Isn't the min/max in those games to roll around

Bit more to it than that.

Also got rid of steam awhile back, I avoid any and all digital stores. I have my own personal beefs with that.

You have a 'personal' beef with digital distribution?...Okay...

There are no hard copies, everything is made to baby powder our bottoms for maximum anal ease.

You are focused on butts a lot.

New queefs thinking STEAM is PC Gaming. I would be on Linux if they were doing something original designed for Linux only, instead they are trying to be Windows punk baby brother.

Namedropping Linux and being a Linux-purist doesn't impress anyone anymore. The 90's are gone.

Nothing of interest here. The barrier to entry would keep the 'I can't be bothered's' away. Trying to plug in their PS4 controller to play an MMORPG.

So you won't try an actually difficult, critically acclaimed, communally praised PC game because other people play it with a controller...Are those goalposts heavy at all? Because you are having no problem moving them.

[Daldaen]

I can offer my services as a rotation designer for a discount to my P99 pals.

Hit me up and I’ll craft you an amazing rotation for optimal immersion.

[Mblake81]

Do you also own a car and drive it to one place every day?



Bit more to it than that.



You have a 'personal' beef with digital distribution?...Okay...



You are focused on butts a lot.



Namedropping Linux and being a Linux-purist doesn't impress anyone anymore. The 90's are gone.



So you won't try an actually difficult, critically acclaimed, communally praised PC game because other people play it with a controller...Are those goalposts heavy at all? Because you are having no problem moving them.

1. Pretty much, or at least 4 out of 5 days. Sometimes I go for a weekend back road drive.

2. Ok but I don't care. I am not being a smart ass I really don't care.

3. Yes, yes I do.

4. eh, gay innuendo is common in regards to something happening to your bottom. It scares straight people but might fall on willing ears these days.

5. Don't care, I just want away from what has become so I don't partake.

6. Make it out like that to play psyche games, not gonna fly. See #2 it really doesn't attract me if its acclaimed or not. I am not a gamer. I shit all over controllers, see #5. Although that wasn't in reference to Dark Souls but modern PC gaming, see #3.

As far as goalposts, I suppose if you let me. Why don't you get mad and take em back and say toss it here if it pisses you off so much.

+Thanks for at least talking some shit.

[Xulia]

Ok but I don't care. I am not being a smart ass I really don't care.



Cared enough to respond.

It's okay if you're bad at Dark Souls, it's a hard game - but the Dragons aren't rooted. And isn't that was gaming is really all about?

[Mblake81]

Cared enough to respond.

It's okay if you're bad at Dark Souls, it's a hard game - but the Dragons aren't rooted. And isn't that was gaming is really all about?

Yep its a messageboard and you were addressing me and that is canihazcheezburger shit. I am bad at Dark Souls, never played it to get good but that is also cheezburger. The dragons didn't need to get rooted since the game was new and the players were not ex-pros that knew all of the secrets to break the game. Isn't playing the game what is all about?

Try harder if you care to, Xulia.

(thanks)

[YendorLootmonkey]

I remember the big guilds picking the hardest mobs as gatekeepers for different “tiers” of mobs to hope that guilds would fail out of being allowed in the rotation.

My understanding is that the smaller guilds were gaming the rotation because Guild A could not muster a force within the agreed-upon window of time, and received help from Guild B, and then Guild B did the same with Guild A (or a Guild C -- whoever could help), and all somehow still had individual places in the rotation.

Which, during discussions leading to and directly after the announcement of the Class C/R/FFA system, was the loophole the Class C guilds threatened to use with their Class R alts to stick it back to Class R for taking a subset of their pixels.

[Xulia]

Try harder if you care to, Xulia.

(thanks)

You said you wanted to "get kicked around and shit on" and I ever so graciously handed you the keys to a Kingdom of Sodomy. But it wasn't the sodomy you wanted.

Doesn't seem like someone who's interested in a difficult challenge.

[Mblake81]

You said you wanted to and I ever so graciously handed you the keys to a Kingdom of Sodomy. But it wasn't the sodomy you wanted.

Doesn't seem like someone who's interested in a difficult challenge.

Forgive me but I have no idea. Maybe I shouldn't and that is good.

I am not interested in that challenge. I am not a gamer. I did get invited to join a Judo class, it starts at 7:30 tonight. Really considering showing up but I have to work a few other things around. I told the man who invited me that I wish to be tossed around like a ragdoll, its good for my health.

[Xulia]

I told the man who invited me that I wish to be tossed around like a ragdoll, its good for my health.

Cement mixer would get that job done.

[Mblake81]

Cement mixer would get that job done.

haha

[Baylan295]

I actually can't believe people preferred pulling to the zone line or LTK exit. I really can't believe it.

^^^

[rezzie]

I loved pulling dragons. I also like crawling. One is more effort, but both are fun.

[Nuggie]

My understanding is that the smaller guilds were gaming the rotation because Guild A could not muster a force within the agreed-upon window of time, and received help from Guild B, and then Guild B did the same with Guild A (or a Guild C -- whoever could help), and all somehow still had individual places in the rotation.

Which, during discussions leading to and directly after the announcement of the Class C/R/FFA system, was the loophole the Class C guilds threatened to use with their Class R alts to stick it back to Class R for taking a subset of their pixels.

From the perspective of a small guild person: what Zanderr said + the guild(s?) that set up the "entrance to tier" gatekeeper mobs were big enough to justify being in the Class C group, but didn't want to compete. So they could lord over the small guilds. Similar to a 6th grade kid in the 3rd grade playground area. So they were similarly gaming the system, in that regard. Then got mad and threw a fit when they couldn't make all the 3rd graders do exactly what they wanted. The 6th grader ended up competing with the 3rd graders, regardless of making a claim to not wanting to compete in the first place.

Regardless of all this drama between 3rd and 6th graders, the "Age of the Class System" was the time where I had the most fun on P99. I feel bad for the guild leaders that had to sift through the bullshit on the daily to keep the wheels turning.

Taking a trip down memory lane is interesting. All the things that can be dusted off with a little help.

[Dugface]

What are the current rules for the Tunare and Ring War rotations, out of interest? Seems to be working alright?

[conoutoftrol]

What are the current rules for the Tunare and Ring War rotations, out of interest? Seems to be working alright?

ring war is fixed rotation 4 entities
tunare is race / rot / rot / race / rot / rot ... w/ 4 entities

[Fammaden]

Who are the four Tunare entities? Riot, AM, AG, Aegis? Or some more alliances in there on the last two?

[conoutoftrol]

Aegis++ (bg/kittens/aegis) but yeah

[Legday]

From the perspective of a small guild person: what Zanderr said + the guild(s?) that set up the "entrance to tier" gatekeeper mobs were big enough to justify being in the Class C group, but didn't want to compete.

BDA and Taken.

BDA falls into the description you laid out.

Taken was a little more justified in opting for Class R over Class C. You have to remember that there were so few targets back then compared the post-Velious raid scene. TMO and IB were so hardcore that competing against them required and equal level of commitment. Taken were just a little too casual for that mess.

Also, BDA and Taken didn't just assume that going Class C would be too much, they also got to compete directly against TMO and IB whenever a mob was FFA, which was every 3rd spawn. If they really felt that would have been good for their guild is go class C I have to believe they would have. Targets like Trak, VS, and Sev were huge for TMO and IB still so those were often contested on FFA by BDA and/or Taken as well and I don't think they had a ton of success outside of the occasional snipe.

In the end most of the Class R guilds either merged with Class C guilds or left the server.

If I remember correct the Class R guilds were...

A-Team: Merged with IB pre-Velious to form Rampage.
Divinity: Slowly died. RIP.
BDA: Went to Phinny server.
Taken: Aligned with Forsaken+Asgard and later Rampage in the pre-sleeper waking days. Merged with the remnants Rampage shortly after.
Asgard: Aligned with Forsaken pre-sleeper waking and merged into current day Aftermath shortly after.
AG/Omni/Europa: Never merged but were the CSG alliance well into Velious.
Moonlight Crusaders: I think they folded pre-Velious?
Indignation: Merged into Asgard pre-Velious but some more hardcore members went to Forsaken.

[Dugface]

ring war is fixed rotation 4 entities
tunare is race / rot / rot / race / rot / rot ... w/ 4 entities

What happens if you fail the war/tunare, don't do It, etc? Are you DQ'd from the rotation?

[Daloon]

1 month till WoW Classic.

[Hideousclaw]

What happens if you fail the war/tunare, don't do It, etc? Are you DQ'd from the rotation?

I think you're out for 2 cycles for Ring War failure (Earthquake wars are exempt from rotation rules). Quakes = FFA Ring War but not FFA tunare

[Nuggie]

@Legday

Don't forget that BDA absorbed a lot of the more experienced raiders from VD that competed directly with TMO and IB. They had the experience necessary.

[YendorLootmonkey]

From the perspective of a small guild person: what Zanderr said + the guild(s?) that set up the "entrance to tier" gatekeeper mobs were big enough to justify being in the Class C group, but didn't want to compete. So they could lord over the small guilds.

If by "didn't want to compete", you mean didn't want their members to be tethered to a batphone all waking hours of the day and participate in petitionquest bullshit with a legion of elf lawyers on retainer, then yes... BDA did not want to "compete." Nor did our Vesica Dei before them. After all, that level of "competition" got our guildleader's RL photo posted all over RNF here by an embedded mole and ran her off, destroying our guild on P99. Just what the "competition" wanted. Healthy "competition", huh? So no, "competing" in Class C had nothing to do with being able to throw down with IB and TMO... it had more to do about avoiding that level of sociopathic neckbeard nonsense.

The gatekeeping wouldn't have been needed if the smaller guilds hadn't insisted on having their own individual slots in the rotation despite not being able to field the force necessary to kill the mob.

All it would have took was Guild A (i'm not going to call out guilds) saying "Okay, lets be fair... we have to call in help for our targets, so we should have a combined slot with that guild, or we shouldn't be in the rotation for this tier of raid targets."

Or are you asserting that a guild shouldn't have to be able to kill the raid targets on their own to be in the rotation for that raid target? Please don't tell me that's the sword you're planning to fall on...

[k9quaint]

<Legion of Elf Lawyers> should be a guild name

[xdrcfrx]

<Legion of Elf Lawyers> should be a guild name


Pursuant to rule 5.5 of the Rules of Professional Elf Conduct, an elf "shall not" practice elf law in violation of local standards of competence. Further, Rule 7.1 of those rules asserts that an elf "shall not" make a fake or misleading communication about the elf or the elf's services.

Read together, unless properly certified a guild purporting to be elf lawyers which lacks the proper certification is be subject to being ruled sad, bad, and/or mad.

This message brought to you by the Norrath Board of Elf Overseers.

[Xulia]

I invoke my fifth amendment right to drown in pussy.

[zanderklocke]

If by "didn't want to compete", you mean didn't want their members to be tethered to a batphone all waking hours of the day and participate in petitionquest bullshit with a legion of elf lawyers on retainer, then yes... BDA did not want to "compete." Nor did our Vesica Dei before them. After all, that level of "competition" got our guildleader's RL photo posted all over RNF here by an embedded mole and ran her off, destroying our guild on P99. Just what the "competition" wanted. Healthy "competition", huh? So no, "competing" in Class C had nothing to do with being able to throw down with IB and TMO... it had more to do about avoiding that level of sociopathic neckbeard nonsense.

The gatekeeping wouldn't have been needed if the smaller guilds hadn't insisted on having their own individual slots in the rotation despite not being able to field the force necessary to kill the mob.

All it would have took was Guild A (i'm not going to call out guilds) saying "Okay, lets be fair... we have to call in help for our targets, so we should have a combined slot with that guild, or we shouldn't be in the rotation for this tier of raid targets."

Or are you asserting that a guild shouldn't have to be able to kill the raid targets on their own to be in the rotation for that raid target? Please don't tell me that's the sword you're planning to fall on...

The problem with the bolded statement is the fundamental difference in view that larger guilds believed smaller guilds should share a rotation slot with another guild for "every single" mob. If the A-Team needed to group up with Azure Guard to kill Gorenaire, we would be required to kill Maestro of Rancor or any other raid encounter with Azure Guard as well, even though those are extremely different levels of difficulty of encounter.

I think things would have worked better if guilds could just have just been chosen to share rotation slot for one mob but not others, or heck even be removed from the rotation on some mobs like Gorenarie that are harder to kill. This would have still given larger guilds more loot overall.

However, due to arbitrary large-guild made rules, Gorenaire became the gatekeeper mob that "had" to be beaten by smaller guilds in order for them to be "allowed" to raid every single other mob that dropped an epic piece, so guilds were forced to do Gorenaire even if they didn't want to. Larger guilds *knew* this would more likely cause smaller guilds to fail out of the rotation because they couldn't field a force for Gorenaire at all hours of the day.

Having access to the "secret" Class R forums was pretty interesting. I definitely screenshotted a lot of interesting threads/posts there before the website was taken down as the Class R rotation was imploding.

[Nuggie]

@Yendor

You swallowed the bait. Successfully reacted to my troll. Made my day. ;) I don't have any hard feelings from those days towards anyone from BDA(excluding not being given back the Locket I donated to VD by the officers when they split the guild bank. That will keep me warm for years).

At the end of the day we did the best we could with an imperfect system. Should every guild in every alliance held their own slot? Probably not. Would it have been more fair for twice the amount of warm bodies that BDA had to have one slot, thereby getting half the loot? Probably not. It was what it was. Each guild leader did the best for their guild they could.

Was the VD officer-group-mole a bastard I hope gets cancer and battles with it for over a decade, eventually loosing? Yes.

The answer to your last question: No.

[YendorLootmonkey]

.
I think things would have worked better if guilds could just have just been chosen to share rotation slot for one mob but not others, or heck even be removed from the rotation on some mobs like Gorenarie that are harder to kill. This would have still given larger guilds more loot overall.

I would agree with that. Fair point.