The Last Hoorah...

[Uberom]

What is the final bug fix / content / balancing that is due in P99 that is currently not in? For me, I would say the melee updates to SK/PAL. How can we delay these changes that hold back 66% of the tanking classes in the game? Two classes are gimp because of a few numbers in an array need to be changed? Maybe I'm oversimplifying?

What say you?

[Ghostly]

No

[loramin]

Look, obviously if it was as easy as you make it sound ("a few numbers in an array need to be changed") then the devs would have just released the entire "Chardok 2.0" patch at once.

They have absolutely no need to arbitrarily delay the patch: if they're delaying it they have a reason, so just be patient and it will be released sometime between now and September (which is wayyyyy more forewarning than the server has ever had on almost any prior patch).

[Uberom]

Look, obviously if it was as easy as you make it sound ("a few numbers in an array need to be changed") then the devs would have just released the entire "Chardok 2.0" patch at once.

They have absolutely no need to arbitrarily delay the patch: if they're delaying it they have a reason, so just be patient and it will be released sometime between now and September (which is wayyyyy more forewarning than the server has ever had on almost any prior patch).

Wait how are you getting this September date? Where does that come from?

Also, the question proposed was what is the most important thing still missing. Ya gotta chime in on that part too. I could give a shit about some quest text. Knights need to get their reparations.

[loramin]

Wait how are you getting this September date? Where does that come from?

https://i.imgur.com/tFiUUb3.png


They don't technically have to finish it before Green (since they have like two years after Green's release to address it), but as I understand it the devs' goal was always to "finish the classic EverQuest code" on Blue first before Green was released.

If that's still true I imagine they'll drop the patch before Green, not simultaneously with it, and that would put it in or before September.

Also, the question proposed was what is the most important thing still missing. Ya gotta chime in on that part too. I could give a shit about some quest text. Knights need to get their reparations.

Eh, all that's really left is the second half of the "Chardok 2.0" patch, and some relatively minor patches that came after (eg. light blue con mobs). So there's not a ton of options left to choose from.

I guess if I had to pick one it'd be /targetgroupbuff. I have a 60 Shaman (disease/poison group buffs) and a 60 Druid (PotG, Regrowth of the Grove, and the Fire/Resist group buffs) and I am very much looking forward to not having to do the "disband/invite dance" anymore :)

[Uberom]

Nice. I didn't even know that was a thing.

[ReadOnly]

Wow I didn't know either. Group DMF would be nice for necros too!

[Fammaden]

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if the October date gets pushed back. Initial reports from the con where they announced green were that Chardok 2.0 would be finished within weeks and then more green info. Not holding it against them, but if October isn't happening on time I won't be surprised.

[Crawdad]

Wow I didn't know either. Group DMF would be nice for necros too!

It's already in-game and can be yours for only ~10k!

[Jauna]

Whats the 1% tanking class?

[DromalPhrenia]

Custom content request: Group GoB, or a GoB clicky.

Oh cool these velious pants cast clarity 1! EAT ME, this dumbass single target buff costs 450 mana and every caster should have it (even Necros!)

[Uberom]

Whats the 1% tanking class?
ok, 33.33% (repeating of course(reference to leeroy jenkins of course))

[gkmarino]

October 8, 2001 - Patch Notes

Please! Please! Please!

Melee Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589215710023254026/unknown.png

Magic System Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589217099126276096/unknown.png

[Muggens]

Which rogue daggers get an upgrayd?
Critcal hits on spells?

[jolanar]

October 8, 2001 - Patch Notes

Please! Please! Please!

Melee Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589215710023254026/unknown.png

Magic System Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589217099126276096/unknown.png

Those are some vague ass patch notes.

[Uberom]

Those are some vague ass patch notes.

Did you expect them to release the code itself?

[Evia]

Which rogue daggers get an upgrayd?
Critcal hits on spells?

[Neach]

If that's still true I imagine they'll drop the patch before Green, not simultaneously with it, and that would put it in or before September.


solid assessment. I was thinking the same thing

[gkmarino]

Those are some vague ass patch notes.I'm not really sure what you expect from archived patch notes.http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html

CTRL+F to find "October 8" which is the Chardok 2.0 patch.

There was another patch on November 7, 2001 which had a next day follow-up patch on November 8, 2001.

December 3, 2001 through December 4, 2001 were the Luclin server outage patches and the launch of Luclin.

[Secrets]

Look, obviously if it was as easy as you make it sound ("a few numbers in an array need to be changed") then the devs would have just released the entire "Chardok 2.0" patch at once.

It is a few numbers in an array though.

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/attack.cpp#L4537

Also, the reason why the patches get delayed is purely political reasons imposed by Daybreak, as far as I know?

[bomaroast]

chardok 2.0 should have never been included on p99. It existed solely to prep melee for luclin.

[Uberom]

It is a few numbers in an array though.

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/attack.cpp#L4537

Also, the reason why the patches get delayed is purely political reasons imposed by Daybreak, as far as I know?

Exactly! If you read the patch notes, and the conversations on the boards from back then, they put knights onto warriors combat table (so things like 2hs don't cap at 235 but rather 255?) and monks got special 55 / 60 combat tables. So, basically, just give knights the warrior combat skill levels?

And for Loramin, telling me to be patient. Bro, look at my forum acct. 2010. I've been around here for 9 years. That is pretty damn patient, I would say.

[Fammaden]

chardok 2.0 should have never been included on p99. It existed solely to prep melee for luclin.

Agreed but it seems to be a very minority opinion around here. The whole thing seems totally out of place to me.

[Rogean]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).

[Legday]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).

@Pint

[mattydef]

October 8, 2001 - Patch Notes

Please! Please! Please!

Melee Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589215710023254026/unknown.png

Magic System Changes
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/350727759221358604/589217099126276096/unknown.png

I believe all weapons including rogue daggers have already been upgraded and spell crits was an AA from Luclin so won't be on p99.

[Jimjam]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).

Honestly if anything the 'last patch' is just a nerf to rangers. They already mitigate well enough in one third decent gear. Upping their avoidance is just going to reduce the dps they do via damage shield!!

[DromalPhrenia]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).
Most people I know are way more excited about triple attack for monks. Can you confirm/deny if that's coming? Monks are so dang weak right now... who would even want to play a monk without triple attack?! :eek:

Also you said there's no spell changes coming but I think you misspoke because Target Group Buff is real and strong and my friend, and it'll be here any day now

[baakss]

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).

The patch notes mentioned a message about spell immunity if you cast a spell they're immune to. Is this already in and just incredibly rare?

[baakss]

Also you said there's no spell changes coming but I think you misspoke because Target Group Buff is real and strong and my friend, and it'll be here any day now

True, Target Group Buff was technically pre-luclin correct? Though it was not in the Chardok patch.

[Squire]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

Also, there are no spell changes coming. Those changes are already in the game per Nilbog (Mobs that need to be immune to something are already specifically immune to it without an artificially high MR to make it so).

As a paladin

:):mad::(

[billtrotman]

In this final patch, will we see this?
https://wiki.project1999.com/Circle_of_Surefall_Glade

[loramin]

It is a few numbers in an array though.

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/master/zone/attack.cpp#L4537

Also, the reason why the patches get delayed is purely political reasons imposed by Daybreak, as far as I know?

But again, if that was true, why didn't they just release it with everything else? It doesn't make any sense that Daybreak would care whether P99 releases the entire "Chardok 2.0" patch at once or not. I mean, can you really see someone at Daybreak telling Rogean "Ok, you're allowed to release Chardok 2.0, but don't you dare release those melee number changes as part of it?"

And as for whether it literally requires only "a few numbers in the array" in the code ... c'mon Secrets, you're a dev. You know there's more than just the code: there's updating unit tests, there's the research behind those numbers, there's making sure that the array is the only place that needs changing, there's manual testing, there's ...

I mean, you know the P99 dev team a lot better than I do :) But still, even with my limited knowledge of them, it just would make no sense for them to hold off "changing a few numbers in an array", specifically splitting up a Verant patch into multiple P99 patches (something they rarely do), for no reason (or for Daybreak's sake).

It seems far more likely that there was more work to do, so they decided not to release it until that work was done.

[loramin]

In this final patch, will we see this?
https://wiki.project1999.com/Circle_of_Surefall_Glade

:confused: It literally says that we will on the very page you linked ...

And if for some reason you don't trust the wiki, that page links to an Allakhazam page with the date "Nov 9th, 2001". Luclin wasn't released until December 2001 (so there's your answer).

[Secrets]

there's updating unit tests,

I stopped reading there. I think the last time I wrote a unit test, even including industry experience, was like 2007.

We don't really use those here. It's numbers in an array and it won't be that big of a change (it wasn't on live at the time, either)

[Secrets]

going to agree 2 hand weapons do no damage on p99

on retail sks and pal in seb were slashing frogs for 200+ nonstop

here its miss miss 42 miss 89 miss 102 miss miss

Live has way higher skillcaps than even this change did. That's why you are seeing those kind of numbers. I think the cap on 2HS was something like 280 for most classes in Kunark? Plus they have an innate AA that is autotrained for melee / hybrids on live that increases white damage by 45%.

As for the reason why P99 has so many more misses, that can be chalked up to the fact that P99 doesn't use era-specific combat formulas. I believe Rogean tuned the mob stats to produce era-like results, but did not actually implement the proper formula.

[Dolalin]

I stopped reading there. I think the last time I wrote a unit test, even including industry experience, was like 2007.

Uh, what? Even our frontend javascript guys are writing unit tests. That's crazy.

[gkmarino]

:confused: It literally says that we will on the very page you linked ...

And if for some reason you don't trust the wiki, that page links to an Allakhazam page with the date "Nov 9th, 2001". Luclin wasn't released until December 2001 (so there's your answer).Oooh! I would lvoe for the SFG portal spell to implemented all signs point to it existing before Luclin due to the November, 2001 dates!

[Psyborg]

Uh, what? Even our frontend javascript guys are writing unit tests. That's crazy.

Yeah I have to object to this notion that unit tests are some sort of outdated process. I have never worked on a mission critical project where they were not used somewhere.

[Uberom]

I think you guys are overestimating just how much a minor change to knight offensives will do anything. It really isn't going to do as much as you are hoping it will.

I'm not expecting some godly damage boost or anything, but even those minor skill increases of 20-30 points will help and I think most people will notice it, especially when it comes to melee accuracy. For example, my lvl 51 SK against lvl 35-39 mobs (bloodgills) ranges between 50-75% accuracy(misses only, no evade), 65% average-ish. That's pretty brutal considering his twink gear and the fact these mobs con light blue. The 40's are rough because skills capped until 50+, but for knights, we again get capped at 55. May not seem like much, but I think roughly 9% increases is a pretty nice bump to weapons/offense skill.

230->250 weapons skill = 8.69% increase
230->252 offense skill = 9.56% increase

I will take 9% any day of the week!

[Secrets]

Yeah I have to object to this notion that unit tests are some sort of outdated process. I have never worked on a mission critical project where they were not used somewhere.

Must not have worked in games at all then... maybe in business programming they're used still.

[Pringles]

Must not have worked in games at all then... maybe in business programming they're used still.

Only a mere 99% of the industry!

[Synthlol]

The patch notes mentioned a message about spell immunity if you cast a spell they're immune to. Is this already in and just incredibly rare?

You must not be a puller.

[Thu Mar 07 19:15:49 2019] Your target is immune to changes in its run speed.

We've know these spell changes were already implemented for quite some time. March 7, 2019 is just the last time I deleted my log files.

[Bboboo]

Just click compile

[k9quaint]

Things that can't/don't crash have unit, system, functional, and integration tests.

Not surprising given how often games crash that they don't write any unit tests ;)

[Uberom]

Jesus christ this thread is supposed to be about my SK getting buffed and you folks are arguing over unit testing. This is why we can't have nice things...

[Psyborg]

Jesus christ this thread is supposed to be about my SK getting buffed and you folks are arguing over unit testing. This is why we can't have nice things...

This is RnF. If you wanted to get info on future SK buffs you should have made a thread about how shite the raid scene is on p99 and let it devolve.

[Uberom]

This is RnF. If you wanted to get info on future SK buffs you should have made a thread about how shite the raid scene is on p99 and let it devolve.

(spoiler alert: i already did)

[TomisFeline]

secrets, I can tell your dev teams needs to write more tests based on the fact that they aren't.