someone has to say it, this is getting out of hand...

[Uberom]

Why the hell are there 5 plate wearing classes? Bards should not wear plate. Think about the game balance. You have 5 plate, 4 cloth, 3 chain, and 2 leather armor classes. How does that make any sense? If you moved Bard to leather, which is 100% logical from any sort of realistic fantasy view, you would have 4,4,3,3. See the balance? The symmetry? From lowest to highest AC, 4,3,3,4. See? So how did these geniuses who designed this game fuck up so badly? Explain.

What kind of dancing singer wears hundreds of pounds of plate, but runs at Usain Bolt speed? Every other game has bards wearing light armor. You can't play musical instruments with plate gauntlets on. WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THIS?

god damn you people make me sick...

[DinoTriz2]

I have to admit, this has bugged me as well

[shuklak]

Keep christ in Christmas is what i was told.

[Dwarflord]

They generated more aggro then tanks in classic thats why they gave it to them

[loramin]

And Halflings (with Sneak/Hide) get a 5% XP bonus, while Humans (clearly the most inferior race) get nothing. And Barbarians can master being sneaky (ie. being Rogues) but Iksar can't? And Enchanters get Clarity when clearly it would have made much more sense for Wizards to get it. Same for Shamans getting Torpor instead of Druids. And ...

There's lots about classic EQ that doesn't make sense. The game succeeded (wildly) in spite of its flaws ... but even so I'd love to someday see someone make a "Violet" server that's sort of like Green, but with all that sort of stuff corrected.

[DinoTriz2]

And Halflings (with Sneak/Hide) get a 5% XP bonus, while Humans (clearly the most inferior race) get nothing. And Barbarians can master being sneaky (ie. being Rogues) but Iksar can't? And Enchanters get Clarity when clearly it would have made much more sense for Wizards to get it. Same for Shamans getting Torpor instead of Druids. And ...

There's lots about classic EQ that doesn't make sense. The game succeeded (wildly) in spite of its flaws ... but even so I'd love to someday see someone make a "Violet" server that's sort of like Green, but with all that sort of stuff corrected.

These are all good points.

Man, Wizards really should've had Clarity...that would've fixed them. Maybe even a really powerful self-only Clarity too.

[Uberom]

And Halflings (with Sneak/Hide) get a 5% XP bonus, while Humans (clearly the most inferior race) get nothing. And Barbarians can master being sneaky (ie. being Rogues) but Iksar can't? And Enchanters get Clarity when clearly it would have made much more sense for Wizards to get it. Same for Shamans getting Torpor instead of Druids. And ...

There's lots about classic EQ that doesn't make sense. The game succeeded (wildly) in spite of its flaws ... but even so I'd love to someday see someone make a "Violet" server that's sort of like Green, but with all that sort of stuff corrected.

Agreed on those, but those are minor issues. I'm talking big picture game design here. What I am talking about is literally 1 layer of abstraction away from "Lets have 12 tank classes, 1 priest class, and 1 dps class reeeeeeeeee". They went far enough into game balance to realize they needed a nice spread of class archetypes, so not sure how they got the armor types for those classes so wrong. Put me in the meeting where dude says "GIVE BARDS PLATE" and everybody nods.

[Uberom]

And yes, the complete broken OPness of Enchanters is disturbing. Clarity and int/wis buffs should have went to wizards. "Hey guys, lets give all the cool shit to this class! What about wizards? Oh just give them some nukes and maybe a root."

[reznor_]

3^(3) = 27; 3^(2) = 9; 3^(1) = 3;
27^(1/3) = 3; 9^(1/2) = 3; 3^(1/1) = 3;
27/3 = 9; 9/3 = 3; 3/3 = 1

27 is the answer you were lookin' for. The perfect cube. It's out of hand we don't have 27 class types with armor subsets containing 3 or 9 elements.

[DinoTriz2]

https://i.imgur.com/OxMScaB.png

[Legidias]

Someone is mad a bard won a vindi BP over them on NBG roll

[DromalPhrenia]

And Halflings (with Sneak/Hide) get a 5% XP bonus, while Humans (clearly the most inferior race) get nothing.

This one was specifically a mistake, right? Supposedly humans were supposed to get the XP bonus, but they tossed it on HFL instead of HUM and then I guess just decided not to fix it.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Someone is mad a bard won a vindi BP over them on NBG roll

[LazyHydras]

Someone is mad a bard won a vindi BP over them on NBG roll

[Jimjam]

Why the hell are there 5 plate wearing classes? Bards should not wear plate. Think about the game balance. You have 5 plate, 4 cloth, 3 chain, and 2 leather armor classes. How does that make any sense? If you moved Bard to leather, which is 100% logical from any sort of realistic fantasy view, you would have 4,4,3,3. See the balance? The symmetry? From lowest to highest AC, 4,3,3,4. See? So how did these geniuses who designed this game fuck up so badly? Explain.

What kind of dancing singer wears hundreds of pounds of plate, but runs at Usain Bolt speed? Every other game has bards wearing light armor. You can't play musical instruments with plate gauntlets on. WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THIS?

god damn you people make me sick...

Lordi, Gwar and Turisas both wear plate armour to their gigs. I'm sure there are more.

That said, the stereotypical jacket of a Rockstar is leather so you may have a point.

[branamil]

Bards are Warrior-Enchanter hybrids, hope this helps

[DinoTriz2]

Bards are Warrior-Enchanter hybrids, hope this helps

*Thor and Danrys squinting meme*

Are they though?

[aaezil]

Filed under mad and/or bad

[Madbad]

https://i.imgur.com/xlc83J2.gif

[Sizar]

You can file your complaint to Verant Interactive c/o our 20 year old AOL email complaints server please and thank you

[reznor_]

https://i.imgur.com/OxMScaB.png

beep beep boop

[derpcake2]

solve your problems by uninstalling

[demokatt]

Or roll a bard and dont use plate - there you go

[Remeygi]

Why the hell are there 5 plate wearing classes? Bards should not wear plate. Think about the game balance. You have 5 plate, 4 cloth, 3 chain, and 2 leather armor classes. How does that make any sense? If you moved Bard to leather, which is 100% logical from any sort of realistic fantasy view, you would have 4,4,3,3. See the balance? The symmetry? From lowest to highest AC, 4,3,3,4. See? So how did these geniuses who designed this game fuck up so badly? Explain.

What kind of dancing singer wears hundreds of pounds of plate, but runs at Usain Bolt speed? Every other game has bards wearing light armor. You can't play musical instruments with plate gauntlets on. WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THIS?

god damn you people make me sick...

And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

[this user was banned]

Bard's have plate because they NEED it in this game.

They are punching bags when trying to CC/charm/pull in groups especially in tight areas.

Play a bard to high levels and you will understand better.

[Puluin]

Sooo... within this discussion... what makes people think druids are ok to wear leather?
Leather comes from their DEAD animal friends, where as cloth can be made from living animals and plants.

Rangers should also not be wearing chain or leather as it "supposedly" violates their deity code.

While a bard in full plate is equally confusing, I could see plenty of argument for padded chain or light plate seeing how their songs are supposed to affect both them and their equipment. ( on the extreme it could be argued a high level bard has learned how to manipulate the weight of plate to wear it effectively )

[Puluin]

Bard's have plate because they NEED it in this game.

They are punching bags when trying to CC/charm/pull in groups especially in tight areas.

Play a bard to high levels and you will understand better.

Suicidal enchanters seem to fair just fine with cloth... just saying..

[Puluin]

Additional thought: in most other rpgs, rogues get a penalty if they wear anything more than leather due to the noise chain and plate armor wear in addition to assumed movement restrictions. (Mind you the rogue has no magic to affect these things)

[this user was banned]

Suicidal enchanters seem to fair just fine with cloth... just saying..

And Enchanters have single target charm/mez that lasts more than 3 ticks, AOE stun, AOE mez.

Give that to bards and then there's a decent argument for taking away plate.

[derpcake2]

Additional thought: seek mental aid

[Atmas]

These are all good points.

Man, Wizards really should've had Clarity...that would've fixed them. Maybe even a really powerful self-only Clarity too.


Wizards have harvest which should actually work better for them based on their mechanics. They traditionally do more bursty work and need a large influx of mana rather than that smaller trickle. The large burst can also be equivalent to the slow trickle if you are just using it as it becomes available. Unfortunately harvest wasn't implemented very well. Too long a cooldown and really should have scaled better.

[Jibartik]

You know what game fits in all your RULES and BOXES and CAGES?

WORLD OF WARCRAFT

http://i.imgur.com/e9IzA8X.gif

Ive had it up to here with your rules (https://i.imgur.com/x225LJm.png)!

[Jibartik]

I also agree the clarity line should have gone to the wizards that class does suck qq

[Dwarflord]

you guys didnt play classic then, wizards did more dps then any class because everyone had crappy gear / weapons and had no idea how to play

no one charmed anything in classic people who tried literally just died

now people are great at this game and everything is trivial

[loramin]

you guys didnt play classic then, wizards did more dps then any class because everyone had crappy gear / weapons and had no idea how to play

no one charmed anything in classic people who tried literally just died

now people are great at this game and everything is trivial

Look P99 probably hasn't emulated everything perfectly. Maybe charming is too easy here, IDK.

But I do know that Wizards were considered gimp damage dealers even on live in the classic era. There's a reason why Verant gave them Mana Burn immediately after this era (and of course in typical Verant fashion they went too far and made them broken, but that's not the point).

But the point is, Verant wouldn't have given them that AA, and Wizards all over Norath wouldn't have celebrated "finally being valuable" ... if wizards were already the best DPS on live.

[Jibartik]

Also staff of temperate flux was put in to fix the gimpy wizard, yeah i do remember the class being frustrated and even my best bud I was like secretly "I wish mutato was something other than a dang wizard o well"

[deezy]

Why the hell are there 5 plate wearing classes? Bards should not wear plate.

The one that's always bothered me is rogues wearing chain. Why would someone who wants to be sneaky and such want to wear something that makes a lot of noise?

[loramin]

The one that's always bothered me is rogues wearing chain. Why would someone who wants to be sneaky and such want to wear something that makes a lot of noise?

To be fair, have you actually heard someone wearing a chain shirt? My college housemate made himself one (it took a very long time), and it was a whole quieter than I would have expected.

Most leather armor would still be quieter I think; I'm just saying the difference isn't that big.

[Jibartik]

Honestly I really like that EQ bucked those conventions, when they started to steer back to the tropes that each class cant dawn the same types of armors that you cant in D&D I felt it became more cookie cutter.

The full plate druids pre kunark, that shit was dope.

[kaizersoze]

The one that's always bothered me is rogues wearing chain. Why would someone who wants to be sneaky and such want to wear something that makes a lot of noise?

well if we all wore sexy BDSM pleather we'd squeak rather than clink.

[deezy]

To be fair, have you actually heard someone wearing a chain shirt?

nope, i've played dark souls though. i feel like somehow that is relevant.

[eezl]

a druid like this?
https://imgur.com/tutZMXx

[eezl]

aaand again
https://i.imgur.com/0t3j4rW.png

[whyyoukickmydog]

I think it would be most appropriate for bards to wear chain.

[branamil]

Wizard should get CoTH and Mages should get Rune. That would make wizards and Mages more worthwhile and Make Charming Riskier. EQ is now fixed.

[Mblake81]

Wizard should get CoTH and Mages should get Rune. That would make wizards and Mages more worthwhile and Make Charming Riskier. EQ is now fixed.

wizards should get lull animal and mages should get call of earth. That, imo, would make them both more worthwhile and making baking riskier. EQ is now balanced.

[Mblake81]

The one that's always bothered me is rogues wearing chain. Why would someone who wants to be sneaky and such want to wear something that makes a lot of noise?

The one that really bothers me is human rogue skyshrine armor, which developer was on crack and thought bright gold color was a good match for thieves?

Thief series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(series))

https://i.imgur.com/Fbfbigt.jpg

[Jibartik]

bah i hate all thse constructs you guys built around yourself, you're all in cages of your own creation.

Anyone can wear any type of armor its just some armor should be better for your class.

Gandalf carried a sword.

WIZARDS SHOULD USE SWORDS IF THEY WANT

this is all cookie cutter stuff YUCK

thank god there is classic everquest so I can not play a game that is exactly the same as every other fantasy roleplaying game.

[PieOats]

bah i hate all thse constructs you guys built around yourself, you're all in cages of your own creation.

Anyone can wear any type of armor its just some armor should be better for your class.

Gandalf carried a sword.

WIZARDS SHOULD USE SWORDS IF THEY WANT

this is all cookie cutter stuff YUCK

thank god there is classic everquest so I can not play a game that is exactly the same as every other fantasy roleplaying game.

God bless this man.

*sniffs fiercely holding back a tear*

[Carkle Jackson]

At a high level, a bard is designed to fill whatever role the group needs. Need mana and HP regen? I got this. Need a puller? I got this. Need crowd control? I got this. Need a tank? I got this. There are many times in Sebilis where I have stepped in as the group's tank and done well. Those are the situations where it pays off to where plate.

***I wouldn’t dream of taking a raid mob. But I can easily tank exp mobs.

[Atmas]

Look P99 probably hasn't emulated everything perfectly. Maybe charming is too easy here, IDK.

But I do know that Wizards were considered gimp damage dealers even on live in the classic era. There's a reason why Verant gave them Mana Burn immediately after this era (and of course in typical Verant fashion they went too far and made them broken, but that's not the point).

But the point is, Verant wouldn't have given them that AA, and Wizards all over Norath wouldn't have celebrated "finally being valuable" ... if wizards were already the best DPS on live.

As a person who played a wizard on live, wizards had a roller-coaster of a ride. At a high level view they were decent in the original game, great during Kunark, and sub par in a lot of cases in Velious. That description is still a generalization though and, like another poster mentioned people didn't have several extra years of gearing for content.

Kunark featured 32K hpt resistant dragons so both on live and on P99 wizards did awesome DPS. Velious hit wizards hard. Boss mobs had/have a ton of hpts, not favoring a bursty class. Bane spells were added and had/have a varying degree of success. A wizard can output a good deal of damage if properly setup.

Velious was a melee heavy expansion and SoE recognized that they knocked things out of balance so they gave casters a lot in Luclin. Manaburn was really cool for 32K dragon kill teams but not really that great overall. Wizard dps for boss fights was in the top 2 because of other AAs and effect items that increased mana regen, increased spell damage, reduced agro, reduced cast time, added crits, etc..

A huge hit to wizards on P99 was nerfing AoE. A lot of people don't maximize class potential because they really only use tank and spank but AoE for people who knew what they were doing was hands down way more effective in many scenarios. Not just for leveling but for encounters where zones needed to be cleared, factioning, farming etc. Wizards in Velious era were not great sustained dps, really not even after that either except for certain points where it was possible if you had great gear. That wasn't really an issue though because AoE could be used.

[Mblake81]

https://i.imgur.com/bGTB8hJ.gif

[Jibartik]

mfw someone says I cant wear plate armor because of what I studied in school.

[jlxharville]

Enchanters are the best.

[Quiksilver]

You never want more than one 4 in a row that's very bad. 3 4s in a row is especially bad. 4 and 3 are to be avoided. Brad probably knew this. Can't believe anyone in their right mind would want more 4s. 5,4,3,2 is perfect.

I agree with this. The addition of Beastlord and Berserker classes increased the counts to 5, 4, 4, 3. As we all know, the addition of these classes marked the beginning of the end of Everquest.

[Quiksilver]

Furthermore, as OP suggests, with Beastlord and Berserker classes the count would be 4, 4, 4, 4. What is your stance on 4 4s in a row?

[Jimjam]

I agree with this. The addition of Beastlord and Berserker classes increased the counts to 5, 4, 4, 3. As we all know, the addition of these classes marked the beginning of the end of Everquest.

Berserkers rolling against NPC's AC value for the resist stat on their axes was sooo awesome! Those snares and stuns on magic resistant targets :o.