p99 has the worst raid scene of any game i have ever played and im quitting over it

[Folgorth]

So, ya. after losing out on 10 previous green scales from sev over the years, this last one is the last one. BG killed sev during an earthquake, and because the GMs dont like how the pull was made or some such garbage, they DELETED the 2 green scales he dropped. not transferred, deleted. AND they made BG concede the next 2 sev kills. I've been a proud supporter of p99 since the beginning, and have been around through it all with you from classic till now. it pains me to leave after almost a decade on server, but this sort of thing has been happening for years with GMs trying to meddle in how guilds conduct raids. I hope Llandris in particular reads my message and I hope it can change, but for now ,i'm going to nasomi ff11 or something now. Goodbye P99.

this in no way represents the position of BG or its leadership, I make this post of my own accord. thanks for a good time in game BG

[Duane]

mad bc bad

[Madbad]

cya for green

[Daloon]

Riot wasnt on board with having loot not be deleted by GMs, so blame them.

[Kazik]

Stop breaking the rules for a change.

[Jimjam]

Sorry to hear the scales of justice were not in your favour.

[branamil]

Seems a little harsh.

[Kazik]

How was this pull made which resulted in the deletion?

They pulled with their tracker. Pretty neat strat. Wish I had thought of that.

[Badwar]

Try P2002

[rezzie]

Let’s hope nobody notices the three BG trackers bound in PoF which actively participate in BG golem kills.

[Prostatus]

Can you really blame them? They see the things AG has done and is doing every cycle and it pays off for them. Seems they just happen to catch a bad break.

[Arkanjil]

I have some green scales to sell you OP. It's ok!

[Psionide]

raid scene so trash that a server that is dedicated to being "classic" has made up unclassic rules...

[Sajan]

OP if raid rules weren't in place your guild would never get Sev loot again

[Folgorth]

lets go back to the part where this was an earthquake. why would anyone have a tracker at sev when he wasnt in window

[Phenyo]

sry u didnt get scales

[DMN]

There is life after pixels.


Or so I heard.

[Brocode]

so you would quit if it was 2 Orb of Tishans deleted?

Thats why you follow the raid rules, because "smart" moves must not go unpunished so people learn respect.

[Kluwen2]

Woah..Pulling with tracker?
Raid Rules - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189856
Q15: Are either of my two trackers allowed to get FTE?
A: Absolutely not. If one of your trackers gains FTE, you need to drop aggro immediately and concede/forfeit the mob. Furthermore, if a guild gets FTE, any other guilds that are tracking the mob and end up with tracker FTE as a result of the first guild are not DQd from the mob.

Hope this helps.


I specifically asked Llandris for clarification on whether a tracker could assist in a raid target as long as the tracker didnt get fte, his stance was...

"While you are correct about the fte portion, camping out in raid zones to engage raid targets is not allowed. Either have your tracker for tracking only, or you must completely zone out of the zone to be able to engage in a raid target"

So if BG trackers are assisting in fear golem kills they need to zone out and back in.

[FatBalloon]

OP if raid rules weren't in place your guild would never get Sev loot again

This.

[Swish2]

So Blood Guard is merging with Riot? Is that what I'm reading?

[kaizersoze]

Was sev in window and being tracked during the quake? How does that work in regards to earthquakes? I mean AM was crawling TOV when it happened, should their loot get deleted too?

[maskedmelon]

someone maybe logged a tracker parked on Sev to gain FTE?

[Pint]

How do you get tracker fte on an earthquake

[mumpz]

bg should apologize to aegis.. this is sad

[Vallaen]

Can i have your stuff?

[icedwards]

How do you get tracker fte on an earthquake

Take this as the secondhand information that it is:

AEGIS caught BG logging in their FTE'er at Sev spawn point with proof. I also heard AEGIS offered to split the green scales as a concession but BG refused, and here we are~

[mumpz]

Take this as the secondhand information that it is:

AEGIS caught BG logging in their FTE'er at Sev spawn point with proof. I also heard AEGIS offered to split the green scales as a concession but BG refused, and here we are~

i have also heard second hand that this is correct

[mumpz]

awful way to treat people you work together in tov with

[DromalPhrenia]

the raid scene is great though :confused:

[Xaeophi]

A+ Effort on Raid Scene! Would tell a friend!

[Neztok]

"thanks for a good time in game BG"

this made a lot of sense, thanks BG! you guys are the best!

[Molitoth]

Riot wasnt on board with having loot not be deleted by GMs, so blame them.

Good try, but Riot plays by the rules.

[aaezil]

So you broke the clearly stated rules and got punished for it? Yeah man its totally crappy here that sucks....

[Linksfather]

Let me get this strait. BG had a chance to split the scales and have the petition dropped? Instead said no and lost all loot? lol. Then a BG is complaining he lost his loot?

[Convict]

lets go back to the part where this was an earthquake. why would anyone have a tracker at sev when he wasnt in window

most of the big guilds have a permanently parked coth mage tracker for nearly every coth race target in the game, sounds like they logged that in and pulled with it?

also a lot of deflection in this thread trying to blame other guilds. This isn't Riots fault, and AG definitely makes a lot of mistakes but they don't intentionally break rules. This is only BG's fault that BG lost sev loot. Next time don't intentionally break a rule. Especially factioned tracker FTE + pull that's just blatant.

[pogs4ever]

other guilds ported in to look for fte. Sev isnt a bipartisan scene like a lot of the raid scene used to be. the other guilds should have been awarded a fraction of a green scale in fairness.

[Optti]

OP if raid rules weren't in place your guild would never get Sev loot again

burn?

[rezzie]

AG definitely makes a lot of mistakes but they don't intentionally break rules

:D

[hobart]

How do you get tracker fte on an earthquake

I was wondering this too. You log in a guild bot parked at the spawn on an EQ and use said tracker to secure FTE? As opposed to moving a character there?

[Oleris]

Where's the fraps? Must have been really lucky to catch someone logging in.

[Oleris]

And to be honest, your guild should put a policy that if your loot gets deleted that you have first priority for that item with whatever DKP you paid.

That sucks, but you might be looking at only 2 months until another scale drops for your guild.

[Jimjam]

I was wondering this too. You log in a guild bot parked at the spawn on an EQ and use said tracker to secure FTE? As opposed to moving a character there?

Hypothetically, you might not know the window so be tracking anyway.

Or you might think an opponent doesn't know the window, so you leave a tracker there to false flag a fake window.

I have some sympathy for BG; earthquake mobs aren't tracked, so how can a character even be considered a tracker under the context of earthquake mobs?!

[Convict]

Where's the fraps? Must have been really lucky to catch someone logging in.

yeah also curious about this

more curious why BG gets burned by this but kittens got away with killing a fear golem they were DQ'd from with fraps proof from like 3-4 different guilds without even having to concede anything

[Convict]

I have some sympathy for BG; earthquake mobs aren't tracked, so how can a character even be considered a tracker under the context of earthquake mobs?!

for obvious reasons , or you will just have guilds using their parked coth mages to pull stuff on quakes or parking new FTE'ers to use specifically for quakes only its a slippery slope and makes perfect sense why you cant use one to pull just because its an earthquake and not a regular spawn

[icedwards]

yeah also curious about this

more curious why BG gets burned by this but kittens got away with killing a fear golem they were DQ'd from with fraps proof from like 3-4 different guilds without even having to concede anything

New sheriff in town

https://i.imgur.com/Tu3YdIk.png

[aaezil]

Jimjam it says specifically in the rules that if you are inside zone during a quake you must zone out and back in before you are allowed to fte anything and they didnt.

[ReadOnly]

Where's the fraps? Must have been really lucky to catch someone logging in.

Fraps showed 2 BG druids in zone after a /who, a few seconds later another /who showed a new BG (so 3 total in zone). 10 seconds later that newest BG gets FTE on Sev, either by gating or having camped near Sev (aka: tracker). Instead of immediately conceding (as per the rules of gaining FTE on a tracker) they got a new FTE with a bard and proceeded to kill Sev.

[Maliant]

Hey, dude that was complaining about illegal hate tracking, take note.

[pogs4ever]

but did they call accidental?

[pogs4ever]

yeah also curious about this

more curious why BG gets burned by this but kittens got away with killing a fear golem they were DQ'd from with fraps proof from like 3-4 different guilds without even having to concede anything

are you in the guild leader discord?

its been clarified by gm's and posted there multiple times: zone out, zone back, you're good.

moving to resolved.

[Danth]

Several people want something, one guy steals it, so the cops blow up the item(s) so nobody can have it. Interesting.

Danth

[Ruhtar]

ITT: People flabbergasted at these newly found rules.

Also ITT: AM trying to make this about other guilds.

OP, you may want to consider joining a different guild instead of quitting altogether. The guild you're defending is also the one that cheated to get those scales removed. If only this was the first time BG has done some shady shit...

[mattydef]

Of all times to drop two green scales...why couldn't it be two dragon bone bracelets?

[ReadOnly]

BG leadership failed you hard OP. Sorry about that.

[Oleris]

Of all times to drop two green scales...why couldn't it be two dragon bone bracelets?

https://i.imgur.com/w3hUyFC.gif

[Daloon]

Good try, but Riot plays by the rules.
What does this even mean? Riot leadership was the one guild for loot deletion when it was brought up.

[Grimmskld]

I'm going to come in here and defend our OP, as well as our guild. I usually stay out of RnF, but I sympathize with Folgorth.

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL, or else we would have called a concede right away, thus avoiding any issues with other guilds.

And in reference to the Druid Fear tracker comment, we absolutely do NOT use our fear trackers to gain FTE! That whole ordeal happened once, and both druids were getting agro while trying to get out of the zone. Our guild isn't shady and always press to our members to abide by each and every server rule, 100%!

[bigjeff100]

So, ya. after losing out on 10 previous green scales from sev over the years, this last one is the last one. BG killed sev during an earthquake, and because the GMs dont like how the pull was made or some such garbage, they DELETED the 2 green scales he dropped. not transferred, deleted. AND they made BG concede the next 2 sev kills. I've been a proud supporter of p99 since the beginning, and have been around through it all with you from classic till now. it pains me to leave after almost a decade on server, but this sort of thing has been happening for years with GMs trying to meddle in how guilds conduct raids. I hope Llandris in particular reads my message and I hope it can change, but for now ,i'm going to nasomi ff11 or something now. Goodbye P99.

this in no way represents the position of BG or its leadership, I make this post of my own accord. thanks for a good time in game BG

Don't be so invested in the game man.. It's just a game.. Take a break. Play another game for a bit. Make a new character. Find some sort of joy in this game other than some hard to get item (which lets be honest, nothin in this game is hard, it just takes time).. P99 exists for nostalgia. Collect items, make friends, and enjoy the journey.. With this attitude, you're going to run into the same problem with every game you play that's not a campaign story.

Work on changing yourself, not the game. Pains me to see people reach this point...

[Erati]

So a druid will egress to get near Sev spawn point regardless where theyre at in EJ whether that be at the zone in or somewhere else...the end result of Egress will be the same...Im not seeing why it matters where the druid was parked if they logged into EJ and Egressed. (unless it was literally at the spawn point)

[Kluwen2]

I'm going to come in here and defend our OP, as well as our guild. I usually stay out of RnF, but I sympathize with Folgorth.

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL, or else we would have called a concede right away, thus avoiding any issues with other guilds.

And in reference to the Druid Fear tracker comment, we absolutely do NOT use our fear trackers to gain FTE! That whole ordeal happened once, and both druids were getting agro while trying to get out of the zone. Our guild isn't shady and always press to our members to abide by each and every server rule, 100%!

Your trackers can't be on the encounter log at all whether it was an accident or not unless they ported out first.

[Mendo]

I'm going to come in here and defend our OP, as well as our guild. I usually stay out of RnF, but I sympathize with Folgorth.

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL, or else we would have called a concede right away, thus avoiding any issues with other guilds.

And in reference to the Druid Fear tracker comment, we absolutely do NOT use our fear trackers to gain FTE! That whole ordeal happened once, and both druids were getting agro while trying to get out of the zone. Our guild isn't shady and always press to our members to abide by each and every server rule, 100%!

You guys didn't ask him if he did something that was against the rules when he was accused of it by others?

[PieOats]

I'm going to come in here and defend our OP, as well as our guild. I usually stay out of RnF, but I sympathize with Folgorth.

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL, or else we would have called a concede right away, thus avoiding any issues with other guilds.

And in reference to the Druid Fear tracker comment, we absolutely do NOT use our fear trackers to gain FTE! That whole ordeal happened once, and both druids were getting agro while trying to get out of the zone. Our guild isn't shady and always press to our members to abide by each and every server rule, 100%!

*pelts with fresh crushed garlic and pretzel crucifixes*

[kotton05]

Should of been around in kunark. Good luck in your my little pony online adventure.

[feniin]

So a druid will egress to get near Sev spawn point regardless where theyre at in EJ whether that be at the zone in or somewhere else...the end result of Egress will be the same...Im not seeing why it matters where the druid was parked if they logged into EJ and Egressed. (unless it was literally at the spawn point)

was literally camped at the spawn point, iirc.

[Kazik]

Take this as the secondhand information that it is:

AEGIS caught BG logging in their FTE'er at Sev spawn point with proof. I also heard AEGIS offered to split the green scales as a concession but BG refused, and here we are~

Well you know what they say, one deleted bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Mickets]

https://imgur.com/gallery/Uyzdxlu

[derpcake2]

staff should disable the spawn for 3 months, that way everyone is equally happy, it is a breeding ground for cooperation and community cohesion

[Mickets]

https://imgur.com/gallery/Uyzdxlu

How did i fuck this up

[Xulia]

I understand where Folgorth is coming from entirely. The pieces are there for everyone to get to have fun, share pixels, etc. but that takes work and work is hard. So instead we’re going to be rules lawyers and objective dicks to each other until the end times over every mistake. BG did this, AG did that, AM hit me with a whiffle ball bat.

[Kazik]

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL,

Ignorance isn't a defense.


And in reference to the Druid Fear tracker comment, we absolutely do NOT use our fear trackers to gain FTE! That whole ordeal happened once!

How do these two sentences make sense to you?

[kaizersoze]

staff should disable the spawn for 3 months, that way everyone is equally happy, it is a breeding ground for cooperation and community cohesion

maybe if they disable the spawns of all raid mobs / timer mobs. ;)

[Bardp1999]

The druid in question didn't understand the infraction and thought he was doing a good thing for his guildmates! At the time, we didnt realize he was camped out past the ZL, or else we would have called a concede right away, thus avoiding any issues with other guilds!

I have never seen BG concede a single mob even when you guys fuck up bad, and OP has been on the server for almost a decade. QQ FGT

[PieOats]

I understand where Folgorth is coming from entirely. The pieces are there for everyone to get to have fun, share pixels, etc. but that takes work and work is hard. So instead we’re going to be rules lawyers and objective dicks to each other until the end times over every mistake. BG did this, AG did that, AM hit me with a whiffle ball bat.

My dear, dear Xulia, being objective dicks will happen whether we have enforcement or not. Enforcement simply ensures that the dickishness generally manifest only in certain expected varieties, objectively.

[Xulia]

My dear, dear Xulia, being objective dicks will happen whether we have enforcement or not. Enforcement simply ensures that the dickishness generally manifest only in certain expected varieties, objectively.

Nobody asked you, Pie Boy.

[PieOats]

https://i.imgur.com/gallery/Uyzdxlu.gif

How did i fuck this up

not sure, but tbqh you fucked it up real good. You need to link the image (not the album) and then ensure that "i." precedes "imgur" and finish with the appropriate file extension (".jpeg, .gif" etcetera)

[PieOats]

Nobody asked you, Pie Boy.

i prefer "Pie Pal," IF you don't mind....

[Bardp1999]

i prefer "Pie Pal," IF you don't mind....

What a very racist thing to stay

[seananetsberger]

You guys didn't ask him if he did something that was against the rules when he was accused of it by others?

There was so word of the tracker fte. No one knew it happened. He logged in. Fte’d, died instantly. Then a legit fte bard landed at wizard ring after tracker fte was dead. Ran up and got a legit fte. No one called for tracker fte DQ. no one said anything. No one knew it happened. We all believed it was a real fte and we killed it excited.

It wasn’t until 6 hours later when ALS heard it dropped 2 scales that they began to attempt extortion with guild leads from BG for 1 scale or face full item deletion

ALS did not deserve the items any more than bg.
Also, isn’t extortion and lawyer quest against the ALS charter for loot? Aren’t you supposed to kill all your loots yourself??


They never got an fte. We never hindered them from getting fte. It just as easily could of been any other guild to kill it.

[branamil]

As a proud member of AEGIS I will be petitioning server bullies for infractions with glee from now on. I am tired of losing dwagons to rule breakers and elven felons. You have pushed around for long enough and we're sick of it. THIS ENDS NOW.

[PieOats]

What a very racist thing to stay

Check Your Privilege, Madam E'lanti.









This entire situation could be avoided (entirely) IF players and their guilds were granted the option of trial by jury rather than being tossed to the kangaroo courts of Llandris & Co.

[Erati]

There was so word of the tracker fte. No one knew it happened. He logged in. Fte’d, died instantly. Then a legit fte bard landed at wizard ring after tracker fte was dead. Ran up and got a legit fte. No one called for tracker fte DQ. no one said anything. No one knew it happened. We all believed it was a real fte and we killed it excited.

It wasn’t until 6 hours later when ALS heard it dropped 2 scales that they began to attempt extortion with guild leads from BG for 1 scale or face full item deletion

ALS did not deserve the items any more than bg.
Also, isn’t extortion and lawyer quest against the ALS charter for loot? Aren’t you supposed to kill all your loots yourself??


They never got an fte. We never hindered them from getting fte. It just as easily could of been any other guild to kill it.


This is the same as AW v Lord Nagafen v Rustle

The precedence was set unfortunately for you guys to DQ yourselves after first FTE was obtained illegally.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2303112&postcount=1

[PieOats]

This is the same as AW v Lord Nagafen v Rustle

The precedence was set unfortunately for you guys to DQ yourselves after first FTE was obtained illegally.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2303112&postcount=1

*precedent


*sniffs, blinks and walks off*

[seananetsberger]

This is the same as AW v Lord Nagafen v Rustle

The precedence was set unfortunately for you guys to DQ yourselves after first FTE was obtained illegally.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2303112&postcount=1

Fully aware of this.
And we would of if we knew the fte went out. No one even k ew that the first fte went out. The person who got it never said squat. Probably cause he died within 2 seconds of fte.
No one knew it happened.
No one shouted tracker fte. DQ.
No one said anything about it until after they realized what dropped 6 hours later.

The tracker fte was an infraction. Bg accepts the punishment from llandris. We should not of killed it. Hence why we conceded 2 sev as soon as we found out.

We weren’t going to to accept being extorted by someone we called a friend.

Yes. There was an infraction. Are all infractions equal? Is training a guild equivalent to a tracker fte DQ and kill? . We did not hinder aegis’s ability to fte. The tracker fte was dead in seconds. We got a new fte 1 minute 17 seconds after the initial. The person who got the second fte did not see the first. The tracker fte person didn’t say anything in guild or voice.
In our minds it was a legit kill.
Myself and leadership have conceded mobs for bg when we fucked up and knew about it. We would of conceded this one before killing it if we knew.
.
We were dealt punishment after already making the good faith effort to concede the next two.

Aegis has agreed with bg leads that the concession and apology was enough.
Aegis alliance

[Not_Mikeo]

What does this even mean? Riot leadership was the one guild for loot deletion when it was brought up.

Did you get loot deleted or something? You sure qq a lot about loot deletion. Maybe you should work on salt deletion instead.

[seananetsberger]

REPOST - my end of post got clipped via iphone noobery. --



Fully aware of this.
And we would of if we knew the fte went out. No one even k ew that the first fte went out. The person who got it never said squat. Probably cause he died within 2 seconds of fte.
No one knew it happened.
No one shouted tracker fte. DQ.
No one said anything about it until after they realized what dropped 6 hours later.

The tracker fte was an infraction. Bg accepts the punishment from llandris. We should not of killed it. Hence why we conceded 2 sev as soon as we found out.

We weren’t going to to accept being extorted by someone we called a friend.

Yes. There was an infraction. Are all infractions equal? Is training a guild equivalent to a tracker fte DQ and kill? . We did not hinder aegis’s ability to fte. The tracker fte was dead in seconds. We got a new fte 1 minute 17 seconds after the initial. The person who got the second fte did not see the first. The tracker fte person didn’t say anything in guild or voice.
In our minds it was a legit kill.
Myself and leadership have conceded mobs for bg when we fucked up and knew about it. We would of conceded this one before killing it if we knew.
.
We were dealt punishment after already making the good faith effort to concede the next two.

Aegis had agreed with bg leads that the concession and apology was enough.
Aegis alliance had told us they were not going to petition.
Aegis petitioned after we didnt give them 1 scale.
All items deleted.

Moving on.

[Oleris]

Sounds like someone made a mistake, didn't speak up about it or understood that what they did was a violation. Unfortunately, it's still against the rules. It really does suck about the loot deletion, but Llandris set this precedent a couple weeks ago when our Vyemm loot got deleted.

[Erati]

Right its pretty silly that a person can log in to their instant death and that causes an entire guild to be DQd but thats the current ruleset for raid mobs.

Same thing occurred on that Nagafen, dude didnt remember parking in lair (for Ragefire) logs in to his immediate death, mob doesnt even move but worthy of suspension cause we didnt DQ ourselves despite the mob barely being altered at all.

[Troxx]

There was so word of the tracker fte. No one knew it happened. He logged in. Fte’d, died instantly. Then a legit fte bard landed at wizard ring after tracker fte was dead. Ran up and got a legit fte. No one called for tracker fte DQ. no one said anything. No one knew it happened. We all believed it was a real fte and we killed it excited.

It wasn’t until 6 hours later when ALS heard it dropped 2 scales that they began to attempt extortion with guild leads from BG for 1 scale or face full item deletion

ALS did not deserve the items any more than bg.
Also, isn’t extortion and lawyer quest against the ALS charter for loot? Aren’t you supposed to kill all your loots yourself??


They never got an fte. We never hindered them from getting fte. It just as easily could of been any other guild to kill it.

I was present for the kill. I got there fast on my druid and was in zone sometime after the first FTE/death but before the legit FTE. There were not enough total in the zone to drop Sev when I landed. The majority of BG mobilized in after the false FTE but we’re present when the mob hit camp. I can’t speak for everyone but I was 100% unaware of this first FTE. It was hours later before I found out.

Serious question here. If a tracker gets FTE and then dies (intentionally or otherwise) only for a legitimate FTE to happen later, how is it illegal again? For the time between initial and legitimate FTE Sev was open game for any pull. I understand the purpose of the rule but the spirit of the rule is to stop a guild from engaging and lazily pulling the mob when adequate force isn’t immediately present and to stop people from sniping competition with cheap tactics.

That isn’t what happened here. The actual FTE and pull was legitimate. I understand that no trackers are allowed to pull or participate without zoning out first but the Druid in question didn’t pull the mob. He logged in and died. Prior to the legitimate tag/pull, Sev was fair game. I don’t know if his intent was to engage, so I won’t comment. All I know is a quake hit and within minutes we were killing Sev. My hope is it was accidental and that’s just where he’d logged out his raid-ready character.

If it was accidental and the tracker bit the bullet and died leaving an open mob uncontested and ready for a fresh FTE, is said guild expected to just concede even though no other guild was present in Force? Remember this all happened after an unscheduled quake so the rules of not being present in zone at time of pop (ie fear golems) doesn’t apply.

Regardless rules are rules. If they were broken the rules need to be upheld. The penalty was quite heavy handed. Similar infractions on other guilds in the past usually stop at concessions. My take is that a competing guild (who did not have adequate force present to kill) just went for blood when they found out we got 2 green scales.

I suspect one of those green scales had my name on it, but. I’m not salty about it. Pixels are pixels. More will come with time. I’m more concerned with keeping my nose clean. From the sound of it, the actual pull was clean. At the time of the legitimate pull I don’t recall any other group having a sufficient force ready to go. The first FTE went nowhere, dude just logged in and died.

C’est la vie ... just sucks to see 2 rare scales get deleted.

[azeth]

Serious question here. If a tracker gets FTE and then dies (intentionally or otherwise) only for a legitimate FTE to happen later, how is it illegal again?

Because that initial FTE, for however long it stood (call it X) denied another raiding entity of getting an FTE for X time.

[Pint]

Sounds like ALS is starting to succumb to the pixel sickness, who knew nobody on this box was above pixel addiction

[Valakut]

Sounds like ALS is starting to succumb to the pixel sickness, who knew nobody on this box was above pixel addiction

https://i.imgur.com/uxvexQp.jpg

I'll take the under on ALS merging with AM before or after green99 launches

[seananetsberger]

Because that initial FTE, for however long it stood (call it X) denied another raiding entity of getting an FTE for X time.

yeah that makes sense. It was an infraction, unknown of its occurrence by leadership.

The fte was hit and dropped within 2 seconds. Fear and splat.
Sev path'd for 1min+ before re-fte by the cliff edge of plataeu.

BG in no way hindered ALS's ability to FTE.

[Convict]

are you in the guild leader discord?

its been clarified by gm's and posted there multiple times: zone out, zone back, you're good.

moving to resolved.

are you? if you are it should be revoked as its stated very clearly that rule of zoning out and zoning back in is for SIMULATED REPOPS aka a quake, not for normal respawns.

Q27: What happens if there's a simulated re-pop while we are currently in a raid zone?
A: As long as the person or persons that were in the zone leave that zone and come back before doing anything with the desired raid target, you will not be DQ'd from that target (camping/logging out of game does not count). We do not want people socking re-pops, but we also do not want to punish players by preventing them from doing other things (like HoT, Juggs, Vindi, etc) for fear of getting their guild DQ'd. This should accomplish both of those things, but will be updated if/as needed.

This rule is not for normal repops that you are actively tracking, which was the case with kittens killing Terror. This is why top guilds often don't risk going in to kill dracoliche when CT is in window in case he pops when they are in there killing draco they would be DQ'd from CT, all 3 golems, and the new draco. It's the same as having 3 trackers when something pops, you are perma-DQ'd from that particular spawn. Kittens knew they were wrong, were told they were in the wrong by all the other guilds there and they proceeded to ignore it and kill anyways. Nice try tho pal

[solleks]

Checking into the latest ALS hate thread. Really upset right now.

[kotton05]

How are y’all just realizing how to raid Jesus Christ this has been done for like almost 8 years now

[Erati]

yeah that makes sense. It was an infraction, unknown of its occurrence by leadership.

The fte was hit and dropped within 2 seconds. Fear and splat.
Sev path'd for 1min+ before re-fte by the cliff edge of plataeu.

BG in no way hindered ALS's ability to FTE.

Again this is something all guilds follow, if your “tracker” (which is defined as any character parked in vicinity of a raid spawn regardless of circumstance) gets an FTE the encounter is over for your guild, even if that FTE was a simple instant splat. You are still DQd. This happens from time to time in ToV where mobs will path back aggro mage trackers and DQ guilds not paying attention.

Just a P99 raid wrinkle we all have to abide by.

[seananetsberger]

Again this is something all guilds follow, if your “tracker” (which is defined as any character parked in vicinity of a raid spawn regardless of circumstance) gets an FTE the encounter is over for your guild, even if that FTE was a simple instant splat. You are still DQd. This happens from time to time in ToV where mobs will path back aggro mage trackers and DQ guilds not paying attention.

Just a P99 raid wrinkle we all have to abide by.

agreed. if we had known that it happened by our own members we would of conceded right there.

Now we cant kill sev for 2 weeks RIP.

[seananetsberger]

agreed. if we had known that it happened by our own members we would of conceded right there.

Now we cant kill sev for 2 weeks RIP.

If we had know it that it happened by our members or by someone calling us out on it as it happened, we would of conceded*

I need to stop typing on this thread w my iphone...

[matticas]

No one knew it happened.


Clearly someone did, right? I mean your tracker died. Rough way to learn, but now he knows.

[k9quaint]

Thread summary:

Mad.
Bind KoS char on Sev spawn point, gate on EQ = green scales.
But no.

[stowned]

If we had know it that it happened by our members or by someone calling us out on it as it happened, we would of conceded*

I need to stop typing on this thread w my iphone...

Yeah, everyone knows BG concedes when they should. lol.

[Madbad]

RNGeezus hates you guys I guess

[Fammaden]

If we had know it that it happened by our members or by someone calling us out on it as it happened, we would of conceded*

I need to stop typing on this thread w my iphone...

At least please teach your iPHone the difference between "of" and "have".

[Toomuch]

The extortion and break from ALS charter is what saddens me the most.

I’ve got lots of friends in Aegis, so it’s always tricky when our desired targets overlap so much, but man, this just seems so Tempest vs Core it kills me. (Core being the protagonists in my mental version of their extortion story)

[Fammaden]

Well AEGIS isn't ALS, maybe they were securing it for a non-ALS member. Or to sell for alliance funds.

Or it was for an ALS member, but its a technicality that loot you lawyer quested away from another guild is the same as winning the FTE so you basically killed the mob and looted it yourself so that would be total legit ALS'ing after all, right guys?

[seananetsberger]

Thread summary:

Mad.
Bind KoS char on Sev spawn point, gate on EQ = green scales.
But no.

He wasnt bound there

[gkmarino]

Walk the old roads of G-"REEEEEE"-D and concede, but don't request a concession or threaten petition and item demands until using your alliance ties with your "friends" so they tell you what loot dropped because they trust you. G-"REEEEEEE"-D

All the while the infraction unbeknownst to all involved in the kill except the individual (unknowingly committing an infraction but still a wrongful FTE due to lack of experience raiding, that had no effect on the availability of a new FTE for the encounter, still though. Raid rules.) and the sick little shit with FRAPS but with no balls to communicate in real time that an error may have been committed.

Who wants to be a part of lawyer questing your "friends" today? This is depending on what dropped of course.. but don't communicate in real time.. wait to see what drops!

[seananetsberger]

Walk the old roads of G-"REEEEEE"-D and concede, but don't request a concession or threaten petition and item demands until using your alliance ties with your "friends" so they tell you what loot dropped because they trust you. G-"REEEEEEE"-D

All the while the infraction unbeknownst to all involved in the kill except the individual (unknowingly committing an infraction but still a wrongful FTE due to lack of experience raiding, that had no effect on the availability of a new FTE for the encounter, still though. Raid rules.) and the sick little shit with FRAPS but with no balls to communicate in real time that an error may have been committed.

Who wants to be a part of lawyer questing your "friends" today? This is depending on what dropped of course.. but don't communicate in real time.. wait to see what drops!

You hit it on the head.

Im also hearing that ALS acted alone in petitioning. It was aegis's decision to not petition BG.


TY for deleting scales! <3

[LazyHydras]

Let's get Bob Mueller on the case, boys.

[bigjeff100]

Hail Hydra

[pogs4ever]

Hail Hydra

[Argh]

How do people still not know one of the most basic raid rules?

[Supreme]

The big deal is that AEGIS agreed to not petition. ALS with a simple minded decision decided to petition anyways.

Pretty shitty just for a green scale and a lockout of future pixels with your raid allies.

[seananetsberger]

How do people still not know one of the most basic raid rules?

Casual scums!

some people play EQ 5 hours a week and don't spend their time reading shit. they log in and play.

BG is holding a guild meeting to go over every raid rule posted on the forums to clarify it all.... AGAIN

some people just slip through the cracks.... Maybe we need to have them sign a training manual for p99 raid rules knowledge. Maybe add a test too? 100% to pass only! Retests held every 2 days!


#corporatetrainings

[branamil]

So it's against the charter to receive a Bronze short sword because it's "twinking" or get POTG cast on you because its "powerleveling" but it's totally cool to join an alliance, have them do all the work for you, and get showered in dragon scales?

[Argh]

Casual scums!

some people play EQ 5 hours a week and don't spend their time reading shit. they log in and play.

BG is holding a guild meeting to go over every raid rule posted on the forums to clarify it all.... AGAIN

some people just slip through the cracks.... Maybe we need to have them sign a training manual for p99 raid rules knowledge. Maybe add a test too? 100% to pass only! Retests held every 2 days!


#corporatetrainings

The tracker rule has been around unchanged for over three years now, and takes 3 seconds to convey to whoever volunteers to track regardless of their time spent on the game.

[kaizersoze]

The big deal is that AEGIS agreed to not petition. ALS with a simple minded decision decided to petition anyways.

Pretty shitty just for a green scale and a lockout of future pixels with your raid allies.

so begins the crumbling of aegis.

[Viscere]

OP needs hugs

[seananetsberger]

The tracker rule has been around unchanged for over three years now, and takes 3 seconds to convey to whoever volunteers to track regardless of their time spent on the game.

agreeed. BG repeats the tracker rule in voice and /gu chat every time thers a window. someone always asks, its always clarified. Unfortuantely, this 1 person didnt know that quakes were the same. He feels horrible about all of it, ashamed really. He didnt know, he is very sorry to those who lost the scales and to everyone who had to deal w/ this drama.

[pogs4ever]

Why did you have a KOS tracker?

[seananetsberger]

Why did you have a KOS tracker?

He wasnt a tracker,
he had logged out there a few days back doing druid things on the plateau.
quake hit, he remembered he had his druid in ej. logged in w/ sev on his face, FTE'd and died.

like stated before, no one said anything including him. He didnt know it meant anything. probly felt stupid for dying so fast.

no one /ooc that we were DQ, no one said shit. word of scales hits the air, and then the lawyer quest / extortion began.

ALS never got fte, ALS was not hindered in FTE'ing the target

We thought we killed it legally.

when news of the tracker fte hit leadership, we conceded the next 2 sev immediately and apologized.

ALS had no right to ask for green scales, they had no more claim to the mob than we did. For all we know, if we had conceded... TSS or AG or any other guild would of killed sev, not als.. Hence why Llandris deleted the scales rather than giving them to ALS. ALS had no claim to the loot.

[maskedmelon]

need a Project 1999 Raiding Accredidation Program consisting of a series of multiple choice quizzes appended to the Raid Rules section of the wiki. Upon completion, the users would receive a hyperlink to a personalized little image (similar to those you get with FREE ONLINE IQ and Personality/Political tests) unambiguously indicating their Project 1999 Raid Rules Literacy.

[seananetsberger]

need a Project 1999 Raiding Accredidation Program consisting of a series of multiple choice quizzes appended to the Raid Rules section of the wiki. Upon completion, the users would receive a hyperlink to a personalized little image (similar to those you get with FREE ONLINE IQ and Personality/Political tests) unambiguously indicating their Project 1999 Raid Rules Literacy.

THIS!!! hahaha

[bigjeff100]

He wasnt a tracker,
he had logged out there a few days back doing druid things on the plateau.
quake hit, he remembered he had his druid in ej. logged in w/ sev on his face, FTE'd and died.

like stated before, no one said anything including him. He didnt know it meant anything. probly felt stupid for dying so fast.

no one /ooc that we were DQ, no one said shit. word of scales hits the air, and then the lawyer quest / extortion began.

ALS never got fte, ALS was not hindered in FTE'ing the target

We thought we killed it legally.

when news of the tracker fte hit leadership, we conceded the next 2 sev immediately and apologized.

ALS had no right to ask for green scales, they had no more claim to the mob than we did. For all we know, if we had conceded... TSS or AG or any other guild would of killed sev, not als.. Hence why Llandris deleted the scales rather than giving them to ALS. ALS had no claim to the loot.

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian"

[Fifield]

this thread is great,

I once had a new bard guildie track gore all day trying to get scales for himself, I could of pulled it in for him but i was like hey, you know what, lets let him pull in his own dragon and get his own epic, be a fun way to earn scales. Little did i remember he was the one tracking it.
Had to drop the mob, tracker FTE, ended up dropping scales.

Tracker FTE is what it is, if you get it, forfiet the mob.

Shitty way to learn, shoulda given AEGIS a scale by the sounds of it

[baub]

It's simply unfair to expect a guild like Blood Guard, with their high concentration of Floridians, to follow raid rules.

Raid rules are a modern day literacy test and should be abolished.

[Erati]

this thread is great,

I once had a new bard guildie track gore all day trying to get scales for himself, I could of pulled it in for him but i was like hey, you know what, lets let him pull in his own dragon and get his own epic, be a fun way to earn scales. Little did i remember he was the one tracking it.
Had to drop the mob, tracker FTE, ended up dropping scales.

Tracker FTE is what it is, if you get it, forfiet the mob.

Shitty way to learn, shoulda given AEGIS a scale by the sounds of it

Please represent AM for the summit Fife :)

[kaizersoze]

I cant wait for the summit meeting. I just wish I could be there when AM rolls in like Obito and declares war on the server.

[P99Druid]

lets go back to the part where this was an earthquake. why would anyone have a tracker at sev when he wasnt in window

I'd guess someone logged the tracker in on top of Sev, also the quake hit as windows were opening, Sev was maybe about to open then? I'm not sure.

[Oleris]

Guild summit should be broadcasted on twitch.

[Dillusional]

He wasnt a tracker,
he had logged out there a few days back doing druid things on the plateau.
quake hit, he remembered he had his druid in ej. logged in w/ sev on his face, FTE'd and died.

like stated before, no one said anything including him. He didnt know it meant anything. probly felt stupid for dying so fast.

no one /ooc that we were DQ, no one said shit. word of scales hits the air, and then the lawyer quest / extortion began.

ALS never got fte, ALS was not hindered in FTE'ing the target

We thought we killed it legally.

when news of the tracker fte hit leadership, we conceded the next 2 sev immediately and apologized.

ALS had no right to ask for green scales, they had no more claim to the mob than we did. For all we know, if we had conceded... TSS or AG or any other guild would of killed sev, not als.. Hence why Llandris deleted the scales rather than giving them to ALS. ALS had no claim to the loot.

You can’t log in a character that is camped out past a zoneline and FTE a raid mob. That is considered tracker FTE (because trackers are allowed to be camped out in raid zones as long as they don’t FTE)...welcome to the P99 raid scene. I’m glad to see the rules being enforced again

[seananetsberger]

You can’t log in a character that is camped out past a zoneline and FTE a raid mob. That is considered tracker FTE (because trackers are allowed to be camped out in raid zones as long as they don’t FTE)...welcome to the P99 raid scene. I’m glad to see the rules being enforced again

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

[tylercanuck]

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

Get a more honest tracker who is willing to admit their mistake.

[Fifield]

Please represent AM for the summit Fife :)

fuck no, back seat driver pls

ps. Lets be guildies on green. I will bend the knee

[gkmarino]

Future <ALS> lawyer quest knobs to 11, G-"REEEE"-D.

From what I was told The <AEGIS> Alliance Members were interested in seeking a player made agreement as remedy. I heard it was <ALS> that had different gollum inspired desires, contradicting other <AEGIS> Alliance Members.

"MY PRECIOUSES! GIVES IT TO ME! OR IT DELETES IT, IT DOES! GOLLUM! CALLS UPON THE GMs IT DOES" -<ALS>

<ALS> clearly in violation of honoring or respecting a shared decision via the vision/trusteeship/support/backing of the other <AEGIS> Alliance members. Sad day for me, 100% changing my outlook on what used to be one of my favorite guilds <ALS> whom only received information on what dropped due to being in an alliance with <BG> via <AEGIS> and then wanted to play with the information gained.

Just an all around Game of Thrones type episode, except George R. R. Martin wasn't writing this episode.

[seananetsberger]

Future <ALS> lawyer quest knobs to 11, G-"REEEE"-D.

From what I was told The <AEGIS> Alliance Members were interested in seeking a player made agreement as remedy. I heard it was <ALS> that had different gollum inspired desires, contradicting other <AEGIS> Alliance Members.

"MY PRECIOUSES! GIVES IT TO ME! OR IT DELETES IT, IT DOES! GOLLUM! CALLS UPON THE GMs IT DOES" -<ALS>

<ALS> clearly in violation of honoring or respecting a shared decision via the vision/trusteeship/support/backing of the other <AEGIS> Alliance members. Sad day for me, 100% changing my outlook on what used to be one of my favorite guilds <ALS> whom only received information on what dropped due to being in an alliance with <BG> via <AEGIS> and then wanted to play with the information gained.


This.
Just an all around Game of Thrones type episode, except George R. R. Martin wasn't writing this episode.

[mattydef]

I meant it when I said sorry for your loss, BG. At the time I wasn't aware how everything went down, it probably came across as sarcastic but it was sincere.

[Dillusional]

We know this. But what we cannot do is concede a mob when we didnt know the tracker FTE hit.

A little over a year ago, awakened would’ve eaten a 30+ day suspension for this. I’m not saying everyone in BG knew they were breaking the rules but having yellow text go out for a character that logged in in the middle of the zone should be an automatic concession and the punishment is light. The other guilds present should’ve gotten a shot at the mob. They were denied loot

[seananetsberger]

A little over a year ago, awakened would’ve eaten a 30+ day suspension for this. I’m not saying everyone in BG knew they were breaking the rules but having yellow text go out for a character that logged in in the middle of the zone should be an automatic concession and the punishment is light. The other guilds present should’ve gotten a shot at the mob. They were denied loot


No one in BG knew the tracker FTE went out.

Agreeed, BG would of conceded right away if we knew tracker FTE went out.

BG did not hinder ALS's ability to FTE in any way. We didnt hold the tracker FTE or kill it on that fte, we didnt even know it happened.
time between FTE's was over a minute. ALS has ample opportunity to FTE it between and/or call us out on tracker FTE so we would stop racing.

I dont think all infractions have the same weight. training a guild then killing the target should not hold the same punishment as a instantaneous tracker FTE and death. and, i don't think it did here. Llandris's decision was sound, and just. We have accepted punishment and we are moving on w/ hopes to help our members better understand all the raid rules posted to prevent it in the future.

ALS using extortion to get a pixel after the fact is worse than a tracker FTE DQ and kill imo.


Yes, tracker FTE was a auto DQ. But you cant DQ what u dont know happened.

[Pyrrhica]

Guild summit should be broadcasted on twitch.

[Baylan295]

Riot wasnt on board with having loot not be deleted by GMs, so blame them.

Riot didn’t even exist when Detoxx made his post. Try again, Danny boy.

[Troxx]

He wasnt a tracker,
he had logged out there a few days back doing druid things on the plateau.
quake hit, he remembered he had his druid in ej. logged in w/ sev on his face, FTE'd and died.

like stated before, no one said anything including him. He didnt know it meant anything. probly felt stupid for dying so fast.

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

[seananetsberger]

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

Thank you. This is all of it in a nutshell.

have spent hours and days on all of this. I think its time to let it go and move on for myself. GL to the rest of you RnF'ers!

If any questions are acted or statements made, just copy and paste this as a reply. TY troxx

[Bardp1999]

You hot tracker FTE...this is like the #1 raid rule on the server. All this BG lawyering is hillarious. Why was he logged at the spawn point at all is the bigger Q.

[bthomsen0312]

And that’s it in a nut shell.

There was no intent to log in and pull with a tracker. The early FTE resulted in immediate and unexpected death and didn’t impair any other guild attempt. Yes it was a technical violation of the rules but there was no ill intent. A technical violation but one that did not violate the “spirit” of the rule and the spirit of fair play. Furthermore the guild at large was unaware. Did this scenario warrant punishment? Depends how you look at it but I will readily admit it deserved some sort of action. What bothers me the most is that this was handled initially with voluntary concession of 2 spawns and an apology for an error we made without knowing initially it was made. This was handled on the player/guild/alliance level and was agreed upon and accepted. One sub-member of the alliance later tried to directly extort our guild.

Taking everything into consideration:

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death
-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob
-it happened within a moment of a quake, dude was trying to mobilize to a raid not pull
-mob happily ate his face then proceeded to stroll around the zone for nearly 90 seconds before a real FTE pull.
-no other guild was ready in force by the time real FTE occurred
-mob deaded, guild still unaware of foul.
-when I grievances were voiced and the situation was clarified we voluntarily offered apologies and voluntarily offered concession to our ally alliance.
-Aegis as a whole seemed to understand and be satisfied on this player made agreement
-ALS tries to do the whole extortion thing, doesn’t end well
-GM rules player agreement reached initially isn’t sufficient and deleted loot

If our lone Druid has been afk or otherwise offline, we’d have still gotten the kill. Nobody else had force present. If they had ... well they had close to a 90 second window to engage. They weren’t ready.

It’s a narrow reading of a very specific rule. That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid. The ruling was fair. My only complaint would be with how the initial agreement was tossed out the window because a small fraction of said alliance got grumpy.

I will say this though, I’m proud as fuck of our leadership in not caving to the extortion attempts of ALS. If we’d known of the foul we wouldn’t have engaged. Once we were aware we attempted to make it right consistent with established server behavior protocol which was accepted by the other alliance of guilds. When later threatened with a petition, they didn’t back down.

Pixels will come and go. I’m glad leadership demonstrated they have a spine.

You can't bend the rules "because he didn't know". This opens a huge can of worms that can never be unopened

[pogs4ever]

I’m more impressed by ALS surveillance system. Please bring order to plane of hate

[auura]

womp motherfucking womp.

Couldn't have happened to a shittier guild. Lavitz, their GL, is a genuine, Real Life Retard who is borderline illiterate himself. No surprise that he would take 0 scales and 2x suspension instead of taking 1 scale. Also no surprise that this would happen to the people stupid enough to get suckered into that dumpster fire.

ALS probably doesnt do much posting, and Lavitz made about half the posts in this thread - consider that before you take his side.

[auura]

Also consider that this "OMg we didnt concede because we didnt know we broke the rules" line is bullshit. Even if he was confronted with the evidence after the fact, Lavitz had the opportunity to come to an agreement with Aegis which he refused to do. Suffer the consequences bitch.

[gkmarino]

Look at this scrawny gnoll trying to breath fire. So cute.

[Madbad]

said the sarnak

[gkmarino]

said the sarnakDamnit i submit, oh protector of the planes! Team Sarnak all day baby, got them earrings of station!

[Kazik]

[QUOTE=seananetsberger;2909813Bg accepts the punishment from llandris. We should not of killed it. Hence why we conceded 2 sev as soon as we found out.
[/QUOTE]


If you accept the punishment then why are you crying over the lost Scales.

Deleted loot is the punishment.

[Kazik]

We never hindered them from getting fte. It just as easily could of been any other guild to kill it.

You are hindering other guilds with tracker FTE. When another guilds tracker sees an FTE message go off they may not even bother batphoning since the race as been lost. Other racers may not even bother to try and get FTE because an FTE message has already gone off. The FTE message is letting everyone else know they lost the race.

Can you wrap your head around that?


And we would of if we knew the fte went out. No one even k ew that the first fte went out. The person who got it never said squat. Probably cause he died within 2 seconds of fte.
No one knew it happened.
No one shouted tracker fte. DQ.


If your tracker couldn't even communicate to its OWN guild that he had died, how on earth do you expect this message to make it to competing guilds? To alert them that the race was still on?


Aegis had agreed with bg leads that the concession and apology was enough.


Loot deletion isn't up to AEGIS. Why would it be? If you concede the mob then you delete the loot.

Imagine a world where BG gets a Vulak they should have DQ'd themselves from. Do you think conceding the next two Vulaks would be a just punishment? Of course not, because they aren't giving up anything. They never had a chance at those next two Vulaks anyway.

Conceding mobs only makes sense in a raid environment that has two guilds.

[Valakut]

https://i.imgur.com/2J2H3eV.jpg

[ghimmhala]

Tampooooooooooooon!!

[Toomuch]

That’s some seriously disrespectful shade you’re throwing there. Why the personal attacks? And who are you, anyway?

Lavittz is very personable and well-spoken. So uh, you’re wrong, I guess.

LOOOOLROFLIMGADZPWNEDLULZNEWB - there, had to stoop down a bit to maybe get a message across.

[Grimmskld]

Don't let the catfish bait you Relent!!! He clearly needs to be justified by teh forum trolls that he knows what he's talking about!!

[Toomuch]

Oh, and Lavittz DID come to an agreement with Aegis. That agreement was broken by certain controlling parties within Aegis, literally because their attempt at extortion failed

Why in the world would ALs have any claim to the loot? Was the proposal “hey, we know you should have been DQ’d, but seeing as 2 green scales dropped, and we shouldn’t take it from you in the first place because of our guild charter, we’d be OK breaking our guild charter AND collecting DQ loot.”

What the hell kind of ass-backwards logic is that?!

I’ve got friends in like every guild in Aegis, so I really hope I’m not burning bridges here, but that line of reasoning is just bat-shit crazy, and it also goes against the precedent that has been set of self-regulating/policing. And all for a green scale that by their own admission (in submitting the petition) would be DQ loot, AND against the ALS charter to accept. That’s just dirty.

W
T
F

Where is this coming from?! Have we overlapped on about 75 too many raid targets or something? I’m just baffled here. It makes no damn sense.

[Xulia]

Tampooooooooooooon!!

http://imgur.com/gallery/5K6MamY

[solleks]

Nerds cried over this, real talk.

[Troxx]

Thank you. This is all of it in a nutshell.

have spent hours and days on all of this. I think its time to let it go and move on for myself. GL to the rest of you RnF'ers!

If any questions are acted or statements made, just copy and paste this as a reply. TY troxx

[solleks]

Can we get a who posted count

[Daloon]

Riot didn’t even exist when Detoxx made his post. Try again, Danny boy.

not gonna copy/paste UN channel shit for you. But Riot guild leader "loot should be deleted to deter from cheating" etc etc

[Dillusional]

Also consider that this "OMg we didnt concede because we didnt know we broke the rules" line is bullshit. Even if he was confronted with the evidence after the fact, Lavitz had the opportunity to come to an agreement with Aegis which he refused to do. Suffer the consequences bitch.

The real crazy part is, there was no consequence. They broke the rules so they had no right to the loot... and there are like 5+ raid forces on this server who would have loved to take down a sev during an earthquake. They only have to concede the next two sevs! They should have to concede one for AEGIS, riot, kittens, Aftermath and whomever else might have showed up.

100s of players have been raid supsended for 100 days+ on this server without ever having personally violated raid rules. You sink or swim with your guild. These newbs crying over conceding two mobs and losing loot they had no right to is kind of sickening....

[Baylan295]

not gonna copy/paste UN channel shit for you. But Riot guild leader "loot should be deleted to deter from cheating" etc etc

Please do copy and paste that shit for me. Because I remember the reaction when the Vyemm loots got deleted - which was “HUH?”

[planarity]

not gonna copy/paste UN channel shit for you. But Riot guild leader "loot should be deleted to deter from cheating" etc etc

Since you're lying, I'll do the copy-pasting for you:

Detoxx: ya i cant speak to any of that but according to the rules:

Q5: What about in cases where the mob dies before anyone is sure whom is at fault?
A: In some situations, it’s possible that the mob will be killed before anyone can be certain who are to blame, and so no guild will concede/forfeit. In these situations, the crime has already been committed and the offending guild should concede all the loot to the guild that was wronged, but they will also be forced to not contest for the next two spawns of that mob that is available to them
Detoxx: agreed. and if we want to have loot moved, we can go that way or we can agree to not have that done and just concede 2
[4:35 PM] Detoxx: i have always been against having loot moved or deleted as its hard to rely on them to make sure it gets done
[5:17 PM] Monrezz <AM>: I'm not a fan of loot being moved/deleted either. It punishes individual players for a guild infringement and feels more retaliatory than constructive.
[5:23 PM] Planarity <Riot>: moving loot is never a good solution
[5:23 PM] Planarity <Riot>: but it always leaves a bad taste when people can break rules and keep the loot anyway
[5:24 PM] Planarity <Riot>: not to mention perverse incentives
[5:26 PM] Planarity <Riot>: I'm not saying I like moving loot, I'll have to give it more thought with more concrete examples
[5:58 PM] Detoxx: well hes deleting the loot which is a result of a petition going in before i was given the chance to make it right here. so now if anyone concedes 2 after its dead the loot will be removed / deleted
[6:00 PM] Planarity <Riot>: out of our hands, then. unless we agree not to petition


to sum it up: official rules state loot gets deleted. It's not like we voted on these rules and I was the sole holdout, I just said there are pros and cons and I don't even know whether or not I like it. The GMs certainly haven't asked me what I think about it.

Dannyl on rnf: "it's riot's fault loot is deleted". Now you all know you can safely ignore anything dannyl says

[Dillusional]

Oh, and Lavittz DID come to an agreement with Aegis. That agreement was broken by certain controlling parties within Aegis, literally because their attempt at extortion failed

Why in the world would ALs have any claim to the loot? Was the proposal “hey, we know you should have been DQ’d, but seeing as 2 green scales dropped, and we shouldn’t take it from you in the first place because of our guild charter, we’d be OK breaking our guild charter AND collecting DQ loot.”

What the hell kind of ass-backwards logic is that?!

I’ve got friends in like every guild in Aegis, so I really hope I’m not burning bridges here, but that line of reasoning is just bat-shit crazy, and it also goes against the precedent that has been set of self-regulating/policing. And all for a green scale that by their own admission (in submitting the petition) would be DQ loot, AND against the ALS charter to accept. That’s just dirty.

W
T
F

Where is this coming from?! Have we overlapped on about 75 too many raid targets or something? I’m just baffled here. It makes no damn sense.

lol this was how Core started their series of suspensions when tempest petitioned them for training in plane of fear. bellringer asked for 500k (green scale value) or he'd petition. That turned into something crazy like 60 days of suspension? so once again, 2 conceded mobs and no loot is a really good deal.

[Kazik]

-false FTE by someone camped out in the zone resulted in both unintentional aggro and immediate unintentional death


Intent doesn't matter. How long the guy lived doesn't matter.


-this someone was not a dedicated tracker for this mob

Someone camped out in the zone, beyond the zone line, is the definition of a tracker. Just because you, him, your guild, don't call him a tracker doesn't change the fact that he was a tracker.

After you familiarize yourself with the rules please familiarize yourself with the terminology.


That rule was broken, but unintentionally so and in a way that didn’t interfere with the efforts of any raid.

FTE messages do interfere with other guilds efforts. When an FTE message goes out, batphones might be called off, people might be told not to bother porting over, raids forces might be diverted. Do you understand how a false FTE can be deceptive and interfere in this was?

[Folgorth]

i hope p99 GMs and ppl thinking about getting into raiding read all of this and realize something dramatic needs to change. classic wasnt like this at all. its the little guys who suffer from all of this. none of the current guild set out to cheat and youre all just addicted to the drama

[Wonkie]

i hope p99 GMs and ppl thinking about getting into raiding read all of this and realize something dramatic needs to change. classic wasnt like this at all. its the little guys who suffer from all of this. none of the current guild set out to cheat and youre all just addicted to the drama

wb

[Imago]

God imagine if you could fight over mobs rather than lawyerquest after the fact

[Gatordash]

No one in BG knew the tracker FTE went out.

Agreeed, BG would of conceded right away if we knew tracker FTE went out.


Yes, tracker FTE was a auto DQ. But you cant DQ what u dont know happened.

You had a guild officer post in this thread that he was there for the druid's FTE. You must have had other people from your guild in zone because someone else from your guild said he responded to a batphone or whatever and remembered his druid was parked in EJ and switched over. Yet none of you asked how or why the druid got FTE? I find that very hard to believe.

[ichibo]

As a casual outside observer who has never raided on p99 this is all absolutely hilarious and insane. Thank you for the read and glimpse into this bizarre world. Carry on!

[GinnasP99]

As a casual outside observer who has never raided on p99

https://i.imgur.com/0aKyf78.gif

[JayDee]

Can give it another try on green. With full LR and DE mask

[d3r14k]

wb

Spoiler alert: He was never leaving.

[Cryptacoin]

BG leadership holds a high standard of following p99's server ruleset. Unfortunately accidents can happen, and the Sev incident was clearly an accident.

As posted by the accidental FTE'r in discord today:

"Once again, I am sorry for starting this mess. I did not know that what I was doing was illegal. Even still, the responsibility for being uniformed is solely mine, and mine alone, and that does not excuse me at all. I am fully willing to accept the blame for this. And I really do hate that the rest of yall are having to pay for my mistake."

As you already know, punishment for this accident has been made. An alliance has been disrupted.

The OP, who was not guaranteed to have won the scales, posted here in RnF against BG's request.

ALS tried to get a free scale out of this ordeal, and took their ball and went home when shit got deleted, possibly costing their guild a shot at Tunare.

[Matalus]

Hi guys

[Vallaen]

Can i have your stuff?

Nvm i wanted the green scale

[rezzie]

BG leadership holds a high standard of following p99's server ruleset.

Does this mean you won’t be logging in three trackers bound inside PoF for golems and using them on fights anymore?

I’m not sure if the accident mentioned earlier was in reference to having more than two trackers, binding at a raid mob, having your trackers engaged on mobs, or getting caught doing it.

ALS tried to get a free scale out of this ordeal, and took their ball and went home when shit got deleted, possibly costing their guild a shot at Tunare.

Why would it cost them a shot at Tunare?

[fuckshit22]

it really truely is the worst raid scene tho.

[Convict]

Since you're lying, I'll do the copy-pasting for you:


to sum it up: official rules state loot gets deleted. It's not like we voted on these rules and I was the sole holdout, I just said there are pros and cons and I don't even know whether or not I like it. The GMs certainly haven't asked me what I think about it.

Dannyl on rnf: "it's riot's fault loot is deleted". Now you all know you can safely ignore anything dannyl says

good shit
... and no worries everybody already ignored him before anyways, nearly everything he says is fucking ridiculous

[stowned]

Nvm i wanted the green scale
A+

[Ruhtar]

Now ITT: BG leadership and members saying "we had no idea, we all ignorant, juss strate ignurrant!! ALS b exortin us!"

Unfortunately, BG had members in EJ prior to the initial FTE, so even if your dum dum druid didn't know how to talk in comms or is missing fingers so he couldn't type, maybe one of your other members who witnessed the FTE should've said something? This sounds like a training opportunity.

Also wanted to leave one other bit of advice here. You guys already lost the scales. The deed is done. You don't have to bandwagon on here to defend your guild or pay respects to a fallen member who "quit" Norrath forever or even blame other guilds for the mistakes you've made. If you want to say anything, just respond with "The member in question has been talked to and is now aware of the raid rules. We apologize to the server for getting 2 warrior epics deleted." Blam, PR handled.

[kotton05]

Only thing BG did wrong was not turn in those green scales and finish their epics before Llandris got involved. Y’all failing at 2019 emulated eq and wouldnof quit during kunark

[Oleris]

is the bg/aegis alliance out of the plane of growth rotation over this?

[feniin]

is the bg/aegis alliance out of the plane of growth rotation over this?

https://i.imgur.com/lG6N2o6.png

[Daloon]

good shit
... and no worries everybody already ignored him before anyways, nearly everything he says is fucking ridiculous

When directly asked, initial response instead of simply saying "we agree not to move loot":

https://i.imgur.com/oAa6Fen.png

Get fucked per usual.

[icedwards]

When directly asked, initial response instead of simply saying "we agree not to move loot":

https://i.imgur.com/oAa6Fen.png

Get fucked per usual.

Detoxx: agreed. and if we want to have loot moved, we can go that way or we can agree to not have that done and just concede 2
[4:35 PM] Detoxx: i have always been against having loot moved or deleted as its hard to rely on them to make sure it gets done
[5:17 PM] Monrezz <AM>: I'm not a fan of loot being moved/deleted either. It punishes individual players for a guild infringement and feels more retaliatory than constructive.
[5:23 PM] Planarity <Riot>: moving loot is never a good solution
[5:23 PM] Planarity <Riot>: but it always leaves a bad taste when people can break rules and keep the loot anyway
[5:24 PM] Planarity <Riot>: not to mention perverse incentives
[5:26 PM] Planarity <Riot>: I'm not saying I like moving loot, I'll have to give it more thought with more concrete examples
[5:58 PM] Detoxx: well hes deleting the loot which is a result of a petition going in before i was given the chance to make it right here. so now if anyone concedes 2 after its dead the loot will be removed / deleted
[6:00 PM] Planarity <Riot>: out of our hands, then. unless we agree not to petition

That's in the logs Uni posted, ya dingdong. You're not helping your case.

[Daloon]

That's in the logs Uni posted, ya dingdong. You're not helping your case.
Exept it does help my case.. Nobody should be for removing loot in any way whatsoever. Riot says otherwise.

[Daloon]

"Lets agree not to move loot"

"ill have to give it more thought"

[icedwards]

Exept it does help my case.. Nobody should be for removing loot in any way whatsoever. Riot says otherwise.

Riot has no say in the matter. The loot was deleted well before Uni chimed in because those are the server rules Llandris is now pushing.

Lay off the edibles.

[Daloon]

Riot has no say in the matter. The loot was deleted well before Uni chimed in because those are the server rules Llandris is now pushing.

Everybody has a say in the matter, theres a fucking summit coming up.

And stay mad lad.

[feniin]

Everybody has a say in the matter, theres a fucking summit coming up.

And stay mad lad.

You really are an arrogant prick.

Anyone with any sort of ability to read would be able to understand that Planarity wasn't advocating for item deletion, just stating that it's the reality of the situation in the Llandris era.

How the rest of AM tolerates you giving them a bad reputation I'll never know.

[Daloon]

You really are an arrogant prick.


You're on RNF. Go back to your safe space if you're going to be a limp-wristed soyboy.

[icedwards]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1862448&postcount=1

A lot of you have questions as to crime & punishment; I hope to address that here:
If a petition comes to the staff, the offending guild/party will have the loots removed (if they got the kill), and will be suspended from all raid targets for 20 days if found in violation. If a guild wastes the staffs time with false, trumped up, dishonest, or insincere petitions against other guilds, then the petitioning guild will receive the suspension. In addition to this, if the petitioning guild is found to be at fault, the loot will be destroyed and not awarded to anyone. In addition to that, any appropriate individual suspensions will also be applied (ie: suspended for training if caught training, etc). Habitual offenders of these rules will see increased time added to their suspensions each time they are suspended (counters will reset after 4 months without a suspension).

Read the rules dumbdumb. AM's and BG's loot deletion had nothing to do with anyone in Riot.

[feniin]

You're on RNF. Go back to your safe space if you're going to be a limp-wristed soyboy.

Clever. A witty retort as always. :rolleyes:

[Kayso2]

is the bg/aegis alliance out of the plane of growth rotation over this?

I was hoping to see BG/ALS/Kittens get on the rotation. I think they can do it.

I was predicting their first kill being 3 earrings and a fist and had BG winning the weighted roll and taking the fist.

[feniin]

I was hoping to see BG/ALS/Kittens get on the rotation. I think they can do it.

I was predicting their first kill being 3 earrings and a fist and had BG winning the weighted roll and taking the fist.

Kittens winning the fist and Skribner asserting Dominion over the Plane of Growth*

[Daloon]

Now i know why Tempest had an RNF gag

They trigger harder than third-wave feminists.

[mumpz]

Kittens winning the fist and Skribner asserting Dominion over the Plane of Growth*

darn you skribner!!!!!!

[feniin]

Now i know why Tempest had an RNF gag

They trigger harder than third-wave feminists.

Your MAGA hat is strangling what's left of your brain. Get fucked and take it to the politics thread.

[Horza]

Christ, I hope Dannyl is over the top satire. Is AM actually that retarded?

[Supreme]

Some of you are fucking retarded.

NO ONE KNEW HE WAS PAST THE ZONELINE WHEN HE FTE'D. IF BG KNEW THIS THEY WOULD HAVE DROPPED THE PULL AND CONCEDED.

NO ONE IN ALS CARED UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT SEV DROPPED 2 SCALES. ONLY THEN DID THEY DECIDE TO TRY AND EXTORT A GREEN SCALE.

BG KNOWS THE FUCKING RAID RULES.

READ IT AGAIN!!!!!

[Troxx]

Simmer down muchaho ;)

All caps doesn’t make the point get across more clearly. What needed to be stated has been stated. Minds already made up will not be changed and this forum is littered with sour and salty grapes.

[kotton05]

Christ, I hope Dannyl is over the top satire. Is AM actually that retarded?

Yes Dannyl is just a beta cuck the fact he think he triggers people I find amusing tho

[BurtMacklinFBI]

BG KNOWS THE FUCKING RAID RULES.


Llandris did not agree.

[Maliant]

Oldie but a goodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ITY5UgKtJM&feature=youtu.be

[feniin]

Suprerne is so good damned dumb. Also, he's spying on someone's discord that was doing golems yesterday.

[mumpz]

Oldie but a goodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ITY5UgKtJM&feature=youtu.be

AG guild chat lookin like a RnF thread in of itself

[Zeebraboy]

Some of you are fucking retarded.

NO ONE KNEW HE WAS PAST THE ZONELINE WHEN HE FTE'D. IF BG KNEW THIS THEY WOULD HAVE DROPPED THE PULL AND CONCEDED.

NO ONE IN ALS CARED UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT SEV DROPPED 2 SCALES. ONLY THEN DID THEY DECIDE TO TRY AND EXTORT A GREEN SCALE.

BG KNOWS THE FUCKING RAID RULES.

READ IT AGAIN!!!!!

If a member of yours gets a zone wide FTE message over a minute before the rest of your members (and everyone else in the zone) how did nobody in your guild know he was past the zone line? I feel like someone had to question the legitimacy of the FTE in BG when it happened and probably decided to just keeping going unless someone called you out on it.

[Daloon]

Yes Dannyl is just a beta cuck the fact he think he triggers people I find amusing tho
Christ, I hope Dannyl is over the top satire. Is AM actually that retarded?
Your MAGA hat is strangling what's left of your brain. Get fucked and take it to the politics thread.

How the rest of AM tolerates you giving them a bad reputation I'll never know.

The peanut gallery by 8AM on a Wednesday, ladies and gents.
It must suck to suck.

[Prostatus]

Gotta keep raeding icedwards

A lot of you have questions as to crime & punishment; I hope to address that here:

If a petition comes to the staff, the offending guild/party will have the loots removed (if they got the kill), and will be suspended from all raid targets for 20 days if found in violation. If a guild wastes the staffs time with false, trumped up, dishonest, or insincere petitions against other guilds, then the petitioning guild will receive the suspension. In addition to this, if the petitioning guild is found to be at fault, the loot will be destroyed and not awarded to anyone. In addition to that, any appropriate individual suspensions will also be applied (ie: suspended for training if caught training, etc). Habitual offenders of these rules will see increased time added to their suspensions each time they are suspended (counters will reset after 4 months without a suspension).

So by this ruling we can expect a 20 day raid ban coming down from the Green Scale Gods?

[Argh]

This thread is off the rails

[Pyrrhica]

So much mad

[Littul Jonn]

mad bc bad

[feniin]

The peanut gallery by 8AM on a Wednesday, ladies and gents.
It must suck to suck.

8am? I assume they taught you how to read a clock in the homeless shelter?

[Baylan295]

The peanut gallery by 8AM on a Wednesday, ladies and gents.
It must suck to suck.

Bro, you got called out for saying something that was verifiably untrue, then posted the same thing saying it proved your point, and then continued to blast everyone and say they suck.

The conversation with Detoxx was before Riot formed, and the STATED SERVER RULES say that there is a deletion. Just because no one enforced the law doesn’t mean that it isn’t the law.

Yeah, people have a say going forward, and I’ve LONG said the raid rules on this server aren’t restorative, but punitive. Deleting the loot is actually punitive enough that it might discourage scumbaggery. The current 2x concession standard does not as evidenced by the behavior of every raid guild on the server.

[kotton05]

Bro, you got called out for saying something that was verifiably untrue, then posted the same thing saying it proved your point, and then continued to blast everyone and say they suck.

The conversation with Detoxx was before Riot formed, and the STATED SERVER RULES say that there is a deletion. Just because no one enforced the law doesn’t mean that it isn’t the law.

Yeah, people have a say going forward, and I’ve LONG said the raid rules on this server aren’t restorative, but punitive. Deleting the loot is actually punitive enough that it might discourage scumbaggery. The current 2x concession standard does not as evidenced by the behavior of every raid guild on the server.

youre losing by replying to dannyl.

[Daloon]

Bro, you got called out for saying something that was verifiably untrue
You're either for loot deletion or you're not. Stating "it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people can break rules and keep the loot... ill have to think long and hard about it" is not the right answer.. Doing nothing is still something. And you're not my bro, whoever you are.

[Dillusional]

Yeah, deleting loot is the only thing that makes sense. If your guild nabs any raid mob less than 1/3 of the time, you are incentivized to break the rules every time if you only have to concede the next two. The whole concede two thing is left over from an era when there were only two guilds contesting the velious content. It was assumed you were nabbing 50% of the spawns and it was a real set back to have to concede two. Although in practice it saves you the effort of tracking the next two... for any guild that isn’t aftermath, conceding two dragons in ToV or statue/aow is meaningless and no penalty at all if you get to keep the loot...

[Baylan295]

You're either for loot deletion or you're not. Stating "it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people can break rules and keep the loot... ill have to think long and hard about it" is not the right answer.. Doing nothing is still something. And you're not my bro, whoever you are.

You do realize that you’re arguing as if your opinion is fact, right? And it’s not.

[Dillusional]

Waiting to see what the new GMs do about a guild that trains another over a raid mob they don’t end up killing. Can’t delete loot they don’t have and you cost the other guild loot by wasting there time during earthquake / cycle

[Daloon]

You do realize that you’re arguing as if your opinion is fact, right? And it’s not.
I'm not saying you're wrong but ill have to give it more thought with more concrete examples.

https://i.imgur.com/oAa6Fen.png

Good talk.

[DromalPhrenia]

The conversation with Detoxx was before Riot formed, and the STATED SERVER RULES say that there is a deletion. Just because no one enforced the law doesn’t mean that it isn’t the law.


wait so did the petition come from someone now in Riot? :eek:

[Vianna]

most of the big guilds have a permanently parked coth mage tracker for nearly every coth race target in the game, sounds like they logged that in and pulled with it?

also a lot of deflection in this thread trying to blame other guilds. This isn't Riots fault, and AG definitely makes a lot of mistakes but they don't intentionally break rules. This is only BG's fault that BG lost sev loot. Next time don't intentionally break a rule. Especially factioned tracker FTE + pull that's just blatant.

Eh I saw an AG Monk intentionally train Wyverns last week on a guild engaged on Eashen. He kept flopping to make sure they aggroed.

[Tipsyer]

Prove it.

[Vallaen]

Eh I saw an AG Monk intentionally train Wyverns last week on a guild engaged on Eashen. He kept flopping to make sure they aggroed.

That was dealt with and AG was apologetic, leave it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Prove it.

Hi, Alarti

[Vianna]

That was dealt with and AG was apologetic, leave it.

Read his post and see why I responded the way I did.

[Bardp1999]

I just looked at the front page and Swish is still the all time top poster despite his account being banned for over a year.

[rezzie]

https://youtu.be/9ud07nmTFGo

[DMN]

Does gator not have a mic? Why didn't he at least try to warn them?

[DMN]

It almost does seem like he was trying to lose aggro on that last one though. he waited a long time to stand up. But you really aren't going to double check you haven't cleared aggro on a pack of wyverns? Drunk/high maybe?

Oh, by the way, it's why-VERN. my inner D&D nerd cringed.

Know what I mean, vern?

[Capi]

Does gator not have a mic? Why didn't he at least try to warn them?

"Hey guys, TS is pretty busy and we are in the middle of an engage with 4 guards, but here come 4 more."

[Troxx]

Why was the AG monk there to begin with? That’s the most confusing part.

The flopping activity observed seems to behavior consistent with someone trying to drop aggro rather than intentionally train.

[icedwards]

Why was the AG monk there to begin with? That’s the most confusing part.

The flopping activity observed seems to behavior consistent with someone trying to drop aggro rather than intentionally train.

You /q to drop aggro, that right there is intentional.

[Vianna]

Why was the AG monk there to begin with? That’s the most confusing part.

The flopping activity observed seems to behavior consistent with someone trying to drop aggro rather than intentionally train.

No if you watch the fraps he waits till Wyverns in front of him that you can't see in the fraps gets to the door to the hallway to Eashen to flop. The only time he stops doing that is when he is called out in say. But it is too late the Wyverns were already close enough to aggro.

[DMN]

"Hey guys, TS is pretty busy and we are in the middle of an engage with 4 guards, but here come 4 more."

Nah. My guess was either no mic or he thought they weren't close enough yet to aggro on the raid. I mean, you rather just have some wyvern dicks up your ass or a warning to even ry to avoid it ?

[DMN]

You /q to drop aggro, that right there is intentional.

Truly intentional or not it was certainly a dumb enough move to qualify regardless. What was he even doing, anyway?

[Vianna]

Truly intentional or not it was certainly a dumb enough move to qualify regardless. What was he even doing, anyway?

Exactly. He went to that hallway just to aggro them. Which is why I find it hard to believe it was ever accidental or that he was trying to clear aggro.

[Capi]

Why was the AG monk there to begin with? That’s the most confusing part.

The flopping activity observed seems to behavior consistent with someone trying to drop aggro rather than intentionally train.

Oh he didn't mean to do it - well that's okay then. Please, grab the wyvern hatchlings while ur on the way over next time.

[theonesler]

As already stated this situation was dealt with properly in the moment.

Borney was an app to Azure Guard, he wasn't in voice and he didn't communicate anything to anyone in the guild during the train. When we saw Wyverns show up on AM we initially thought they trained themselves.

Borney's app was terminated and guild tag removed.

And like I said, the situation was properly handled in the moment. AM got Eashen. All is settled. Move along.

[Bardp1999]

Borney's app was terminated and guild tag removed.


Real classy move shit bird. Kick the Monk and crap on his reputation because he is trying to learn how to be a Monk in ToV. Certainly do not teach him or explain to him what he did wrong. AG are all FGTs

[Aadill]

Seems like there is a common thread of lack of communication in these situations

[Vianna]

As already stated this situation was dealt with properly in the moment.

Borney was an app to Azure Guard, he wasn't in voice and he didn't communicate anything to anyone in the guild during the train. When we saw Wyverns show up on AM we initially thought they trained themselves.

Borney's app was terminated and guild tag removed.

And like I said, the situation was properly handled in the moment. AM got Eashen. All is settled. Move along.

So the one time they actually get your tomfoolery on fraps.

"It was just an App guys. We removed his tag. Move on."

Let's sweep our shadiness under the rug guys.

[DMN]

Real classy move shit bird. Kick the Monk and crap on his reputation because he is trying to learn how to be a Monk in ToV. Certainly do not teach him or explain to him what he did wrong. AG are all FGTs

If that dude wasn't intentionally training, he'll be up for a darwin award soon. Better to cut your losses.

[Sloshed]

Pretty sad that AM had to intentionally set someone up to fraps the wyverns because they knew they would be coming.

[Gatordash]

Pretty sad that AM had to intentionally set someone up to fraps the wyverns because they knew they would be coming.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 20+ times... yeah I guess I'll sit in the hallway and fraps while everyone else gets to fight the dragon =/