You guys just couldn’t grow up and play nice, could you?

[ajohnymous]

That scene in Breaking Bad comes to mind when Mike and Walt are talking and Mike goes, “We had a good thing going! Your damn pride got in the way and fucked everything up!”

It’s “those” players who cause the raid scene to go to shit. They gravitate to the best guild because getting pixels is so extremely important to them. Those players causing issues just happen to be in Aftermath right now because it’s the guild who gets the most loot. To be perfectly clear: it’s not the entire guild, it’s a handful of shitty people who happen to be in that guild. I enjoy playing with 99% of the people in AM, I have people I talk to regularly and BS with on the race lines.

We had a solid, competitive system with pulling dragons to the entrance. Coordinating a pull team, sniping dropped pulls, and honing the techniques was a fucking blast. The externalized support for repop day was a fucking blast. Gathering a group of people from across the world and building them into a team was the shit. We had a good fucking thing going.

You guys can’t even follow the rules you created so now we get to DuNgEoooN CrAaaaWL! Oh Boy! We had a good fucking thing going.

Pulling that zone was awesome and you went and fucked that up didn’t you?


/rant

[Clearmind]

Since when is killing most of the mobs not following the rules? wtf are you talking about..

[loramin]

I think you're confused. Blaming participants is, in my opinion, pointless.

People are just going to do what the system around them encourages them to do. Our current system encourages people to push the limits, because they get more dragons/loot that way, so they do. It's pointless to blame those individuals in that system for doing what the system (essentially) makes them do.

More to the point, you could completely replace every last person in that system with complete new people, and in a short time they'll start behaving the same way (and the staff would once again be flooded with petitions), because the system makes them behave that way

Now of course I get in arguments with defenders of the current system all the time, so I'm not saying advocates for the current system are blameless. I'm just saying that blaming the participants in the current system is pointless.

This is the key thing I don't think Rogean understands: the "competition" (in it's current, extremely narrow definition) is the problem. Any system based on that current definition is going to have people acting like assholes to each other: it's inherent in the design of the system.

The only way to get people to stop acting like assholes is to change the system (more dramatically than just rooting dragons).

[ajohnymous]

I think you're confused. Blaming participants is, in my opinion, pointless.

People are just going to do what the system around them encourages them to do. Our current system encourages people to push the limits, because they get more dragons/loot that way, so they do. It's pointless to blame those individuals in that system for doing what the system (essentially) makes them do.

More to the point, you could completely replace every last person in that system with complete new people, and in a short time they'll start behaving the same way (and the staff would once again be flooded with petitions), because the system makes them behave that way

Now of course I get in arguments with defenders of the current system all the time, so I'm not saying advocates for the current system are blameless. I'm just saying that blaming the participants in the current system is pointless.

This is the key thing I don't think Rogean understands: the "competition" (in it's current, extremely narrow definition) is the problem. Any system based on that current definition is going to have people acting like assholes to each other: it's inherent in the design of the system.

The only way to get people to stop acting like assholes is to change the system (more dramatically than just rooting dragons).


I’m not confused, I think we’re just not in agreement. Overhauling the system would “fix” the current issues because they would just disappear. The new system would have its own set of pros and cons. R and N want the current competitive system, but want players to work out disputes between themselves. We’ve been trying to do that now, but there’s people in AM are too shortsighted to see they get more loot by maintaining a stable, long term setting in ToV. Instead they bend and break rules and are unreasonable when confronted.

[jpetrick]

What's your character name and guild? I'm curious.

[Heebs13]

We had a solid, competitive system with pulling dragons to the entrance. Coordinating a pull team, sniping dropped pulls, and honing the techniques was a fucking blast. The externalized support for repop day was a fucking blast. Gathering a group of people from across the world and building them into a team was the shit. We had a good fucking thing going.

You guys can’t even follow the rules you created so now we get to DuNgEoooN CrAaaaWL! Oh Boy! We had a good fucking thing going.

Pulling that zone was awesome and you went and fucked that up didn’t you?


/rant

Pulling to the zoneline was fun FOR PULLERS. For everyone else it sucks ass. The only people who were happy staring at a wall are the ones who just wanted easy pixels.

[Convict]

heh AM crying again just wait till the rotation post comes out pals

[Phenyo]

why does loramin always write walls of text about a raid scene he doesnt participate in

[ajohnymous]

What's your character name and guild? I'm curious.

Hard pass. I think it's foolish to advertise your main's name, although your guild is out of date.

[loramin]

why does loramin always write walls of text about a raid scene he doesnt participate in

Counter-question: why do you keep repeating stupid shit like that when I've communicated via my many walls of text that I raid regularly on this server?

[loramin]

Plus, I reject the idea that someone has to be an active raider to have a valid opinion. You have to be informed, yes: obviously the people who know nothing about the raid scene but love to chime in anyways aren't helping the conversation.

But there are plenty of former but non-active raiders, or just forum goers who actually read and learn from others, with completely valid opinions.

[Jimjam]

#NotAllAM

[jpetrick]

Hard pass. I think it's foolish to advertise your main's name, although your guild is out of date.

I'm just curious about how your opinions are formed. As an officer of Aftermath and someone who participated in the P99 UN where guilds would hash out disagreements. I always made sure that Aftermath concede mobs to fix any mistake that we made.

[Aadill]

Wigging is right you probably should change that guild tag, Elzhi.

[jpetrick]

Nah man Indignation was my baby. I'm proud of that guild.

[Phenyo]

Counter-question: why do you keep repeating stupid shit like that when I've communicated via my many walls of text that I raid regularly on this server?

I dont read anything you write. My heuristics just gloss over your posts and file them under 'crying about raid rules' or 'green server speculation'.

[Clearmind]

What's your character name and guild? I'm curious.

AG its a dead giveaway

[ajohnymous]

I'm just curious about how your opinions are formed. As an officer of Aftermath and someone who participated in the P99 UN where guilds would hash out disagreements. I always made sure that Aftermath concede mobs to fix any mistake that we made.

That's great, really. I wish every AM officer felt that way about making things right. I think the raid scene would be way, way better if that were the case.

[Twochain]

If you're going to say select few in aftermath "Broke the rules all the time" at least name them. I don't think people broke the rules all the time... what made you guys so mad? Who hurt you. What happened?"


I understand about corner staring and how that could be the worst. I understand why this was done. My look on it though is... I started raiding on p99 in 2017.. and in those two years, this is the third "Era" of ToV. 1st was FTE race era, 2nd was Instant pull era.. Kind of a decent way to refresh raid content that will be the same for as long as this server operates, which honestly, I kind of hope I can play p99 forever. This is my favorite game, in my favorite era. I hope we continue to improve the Raid experience as long as the server is still operating.

Killing trash is tedious though ugh.. lmao. Hopefully I get some flurry drake loot!

[jpetrick]

That's great, really. I wish every AM officer felt that way about making things right. I think the raid scene would be way, way better if that were the case.

AM has always made it right. AG is the one who constantly tries to dodge concessions. Core and Paradigm Shift are easy to work with.

[Heebs13]

If you're going to say select few in aftermath "Broke the rules all the time" at least name them. I don't think people broke the rules all the time... what made you guys so mad? Who hurt you. What happened?"


I understand about corner staring and how that could be the worst. I understand why this was done. My look on it though is... I started raiding on p99 in 2017.. and in those two years, this is the third "Era" of ToV. 1st was FTE race era, 2nd was Instant pull era.. Kind of a decent way to refresh raid content that will be the same for as long as this server operates, which honestly, I kind of hope I can play p99 forever. This is my favorite game, in my favorite era. I hope we continue to improve the Raid experience as long as the server is still operating.

Killing trash is tedious though ugh.. lmao. Hopefully I get some flurry drake loot!

Some people are just bitter, Twochain. I've never had more problems with AM than I've had with anyone else, your guild is just more visible because you're on top which puts you in the spotlight.

But regardless of who gets the most pixels or whatever in the coming weeks, I feel anyone who isn't a puller comes out on top with this change, regardless of guild. Also people who want to camp Shralok Packs probably benefit from this as well =P

Like you said, wall staring is boring as fuck. Killing trash might be tedious but at least it involves doing the stuff we rolled our classes for instead of sitting in a corner semi-afk. I'm looking forward to actually getting to play my class again in a raid environment.

Here's hoping we can all adjust to the changes with minimal bumps and growing pains.

[branamil]

Back in the day it was a big deal which major faction your guild chose. They didn't have the luxury of infinite time to switch back and forth every week. With this change it will be very hard for most raiders to keep their CoV faction, you can't /q after every trash pull.

[Wonkie]

Here's hoping we can all adjust to the changes with minimal bumps and growing pains.

the true cruelty of rooting the dragons is that dps monks are now valuable @spyder73

[Swish2]

I'm looking forward to actually getting to play my class again in a raid environment.

Here's hoping we can all adjust to the changes with minimal bumps and growing pains.

That's the spirit <3

[ajohnymous]

AM has always made it right. AG is the one who constantly tries to dodge concessions. Core and Paradigm Shift are easy to work with.

See this is the problem. From my view, AM tries to dodge concessions and tries to pin them on us. We legit don't pull shady shit and our mentality is owning up to mistakes we make. We love raiding and we hate lawyer questing and want to avoid it. No flame, no joke, and I'm sorry we have to talk like this on RnF let alone on a public forum. I wish our guilds could work together better, but for some reason we can't and I don't know why.

[Heebs13]

the true cruelty of rooting the dragons is that dps monks are now valuable @spyder73

Honestly what's really going to boggle some people's minds is now you're actually going to want knights around to handle trash adds or the boss mob's guardians. We just spent the last 4 years crapping on hybrids in the raid scene and now people have to unlearn that mentality.

[Heebs13]

See this is the problem. From my view, AM tries to dodge concessions and tries to pin them on us. We legit don't pull shady shit and our mentality is owning up to mistakes we make. We love raiding and we hate lawyer questing and want to avoid it. No flame, no joke, and I'm sorry we have to talk like this on RnF let alone on a public forum. I wish our guilds could work together better, but for some reason we can't and I don't know why.

I mean considering how bad the relationship between AM and AW was, I'd say the relationship between AM and AG could be a lot worse.

[jpetrick]

See this is the problem. From my view, AM tries to dodge concessions and tries to pin them on us. We legit don't pull shady shit and our mentality is owning up to mistakes we make. We love raiding and we hate lawyer questing and want to avoid it. No flame, no joke, and I'm sorry we have to talk like this on RnF let alone on a public forum. I wish our guilds could work together better, but for some reason we can't and I don't know why.

Well when we provide evidence of you guys making mistakes there is always pushback from Hollowlung and Valick. Whenever we were presented with evidence of our mistakes we would make it right. I can go on and on about instances where AG dropped the ball on making it right. The Vulak train you guys only conceded 1 for instead of 2. The constant dropping of wyverns on our pulls. Training our mage during a Zlexak pull and then contesting the Lady N that spawned afterward before you had rezzed our mage.

And don't get me started on the numerous false accusations AG attempts to use against us. You tried to blame us for low hp aggro on a Statue you guys kited past plate house. Your own tagger had a full mallet into it and you guys kited it yourselves but instead of breaking down what your players did wrong to cause it you instead wanted to blame us.

I can go on and on but I've lost interest in the server with the new raid changes. I just am really tired of this false narrative that AG wants to perpetuate.

[jpetrick]

I mean considering how bad the relationship between AM and AW was, I'd say the relationship between AM and AG could be a lot worse.

AG and AM's relationship is as bad as AW/AM was.

[Heebs13]

I've lost interest in the server with the new raid changes

No no, the new changes are gonna be great! Stick around and try it out! I'm not even kidding, the game is gonna be so much more fun now.

[jpetrick]

No no, the new changes are gonna be great! Stick around and try it out! I'm not even kidding, the game is gonna be so much more fun now.

Nah clearing trash sounds so tedious and awful.

[Heebs13]

AG and AM's relationship is as bad as AW/AM was.

Didn't you and AW petition each other and constantly get each other banned for months at a time?

[jpetrick]

Didn't you and AW petition each other and constantly get each other banned for months at a time?

Yep. So when AG is so combative it's really upsetting because they don't understand how much better the current system was compared to the old one.

[Clearmind]

See this is the problem. From my view, AM tries to dodge concessions and tries to pin them on us. We legit don't pull shady shit and our mentality is owning up to mistakes we make. We love raiding and we hate lawyer questing and want to avoid it. No flame, no joke, and I'm sorry we have to talk like this on RnF let alone on a public forum. I wish our guilds could work together better, but for some reason we can't and I don't know why.

You meaning owning up when you only concede 1 vulak rather than 2 when the standard is 2 for killing a dragon you should not have? I mean never mind wiping 2 other guilds in the process.

[Heebs13]

Yep. So when AG is so combative it's really upsetting because they don't understand how much better the current system was compared to the old one.

It sounds like you're sort of calling the kettle black there. You literally just said AG is just as bad as AW was, but then in the next sentence you say it's so much better now and AG doesn't appreciate it.

[jpetrick]

It sounds like you're sort of calling the kettle black there. You literally just said AG is just as bad as AW was, but then in the next sentence you say it's so much better now and AG doesn't appreciate it.

I mean the relationship is bad in the same way that AW/AM used to go back and forth arguing with neither side budging whether they were wrong or right. We can't communicate like adults. The punishments are no where near as bad as they used to be.

[Heebs13]

I mean the relationship is bad in the same way that AW/AM used to go back and forth arguing with neither side budging whether they were wrong or right. We can't communicate like adults. The punishments are no where near as bad as they used to be.

Times like this I regret that I gave up my officer mantle, or I'd be happy to do what I could to work with you guys to iron stuff out. I never really liked the job though, and my playtime is too sporadic for it I'm afraid.

I think the new rules will help minimize conflicts though. Think of how many of the conflicts arise from honest mistakes that people just automatically assume was because of the other party acting in bad faith. I'm just a warmbody these days, but I hope things go a little more smoothly from here out.

[Heebs13]

Times like this I regret that I gave up my officer mantle, or I'd be happy to do what I could to work with you guys to iron stuff out. I never really liked the job though, and my playtime is too sporadic for it I'm afraid.

I think the new rules will help minimize conflicts though. Think of how many of the conflicts arise from honest mistakes that people just automatically assume was because of the other party acting in bad faith. I'm just a warmbody these days, but I hope things go a little more smoothly from here out.

New rules = server changes, since they're not technically rules I guess. You know what I mean.

[Wonkie]

Nah clearing trash sounds so tedious and awful.

thats eq though. that's the game before all this pixel pulling wizardry you guys invented, no hatred for the skill.

it's gonna kick ass to hang with our guilds shooting the shit slaying monsters instead of waiting for the dkp conveyor to drop off our dopamine.

[ajohnymous]

You meaning owning up when you only concede 1 vulak rather than 2 when the standard is 2 for killing a dragon you should not have? I mean never mind wiping 2 other guilds in the process.

Shit, man, it goes both ways. AM hasn't conceded the standard 2 before, too. Point I'm making is the most active guilds can't work together well enough to figure it out amongst ourselves and I wish we could.

[ajohnymous]

...instead of waiting for the dkp conveyor to drop off our dopamine.

I love it.

[Detoxx]

Shit, man, it goes both ways. AM hasn't conceded the standard 2 before, too. Point I'm making is the most active guilds can't work together well enough to figure it out amongst ourselves and I wish we could.

Wrong. Try again.

[Clearmind]

Shit, man, it goes both ways. AM hasn't conceded the standard 2 before, too. Point I'm making is the most active guilds can't work together well enough to figure it out amongst ourselves and I wish we could.

Am concdeds 2x X mob all the time. You are in fact clueless.

[jpetrick]

thats eq though. that's the game before all this pixel pulling wizardry you guys invented, no hatred for the skill.

it's gonna kick ass to hang with our guilds shooting the shit slaying monsters instead of waiting for the dkp conveyor to drop off our dopamine.

Yeah it probably will be for the people who didn't kill the stuff regularly. We really made the content itself trivial though because of how good everyone is. The content for me was working with a team to get the dragon into the zone-in, which is really difficult. But I know I can clear up to the spawn every week and kill every mob in that zone with minimal difficulty. The challenge I liked is gone and that's a bummer but oh well. Certain people will enjoy this style and I wish them the best. If the server ever changes to pulls again i'll definitely be back.

[jpetrick]

Shit, man, it goes both ways. AM hasn't conceded the standard 2 before, too. Point I'm making is the most active guilds can't work together well enough to figure it out amongst ourselves and I wish we could.

It's just AG. Core, AM and Paradigm Shift have yet to have a problem.

[Heebs13]

Yeah it probably will be for the people who didn't kill the stuff regularly. We really made the content itself trivial though because of how good everyone is. The content for me was working with a team to get the dragon into the zone-in, which is really difficult. But I know I can clear up to the spawn every week and kill every mob in that zone with minimal difficulty. The challenge I liked is gone and that's a bummer but oh well. Certain people will enjoy this style and I wish them the best. If the server ever changes to pulls again i'll definitely be back.

Wish you'd give it a shot before you throw in the towel, but you gotta do what's right for you I guess.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Yeah it probably will be for the people who didn't kill the stuff regularly. We really made the content itself trivial though because of how good everyone is. The content for me was working with a team to get the dragon into the zone-in, which is really difficult. But I know I can clear up to the spawn every week and kill every mob in that zone with minimal difficulty. The challenge I liked is gone and that's a bummer but oh well. Certain people will enjoy this style and I wish them the best. If the server ever changes to pulls again i'll definitely be back.

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass! Now people can actually play ToV like it was meant to be played. Thank you Braknar!!!

[loramin]

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass! Now people can actually play ToV like it was meant to be played. Thank you Braknar!!!

Braknar wanted rotations. Give credit where credit is due (for good or ill): Rogean made this change.

[radda]

why does loramin always write walls of text about a raid scene he doesnt participate in

[ajohnymous]

Wrong. Try again.

You're trying to tell me AM has never conceded less than they should have?

[ajohnymous]

It's just AG. Core, AM and Paradigm Shift have yet to have a problem.

Are you talking about Vulak specifically or raid targets in general? If we're talking Vulak specifically, then as far as I'm aware, AG is the only guild to concede it once when twice is standard. If you're talking about targets in general, every guild has conceded mobs more or less than what they should have.

Or maybe going back and forth over ToV targets like this is detrimental to the health of the raid scene idk.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Braknar wanted rotations. Give credit where credit is due (for good or ill): Rogean made this change.

This is a direct result of braknar leaving. Use your noodle.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Also, just adding that I liked braknars previous push for rotations but I like this even more.

[Wonkie]

Fungis are 60k again? why

[Cecily]

Free market?

[Kayso2]

When Core got Tunare today, we were literally making jokes in Discord to the effect of "Lol, that's three losses in a row. Time for AM leadership to decide the current agreement is broken".

Even if the ToV changes code was developed months ago, it's clear that this "solution" was 100% a knee-jerk reaction by box owners who probably haven't paid enough attention to the raid scene lately to make an informed decision. Normally those types of decisions are bad, but now we have a more effective metric: Is Aftermath leadership supportive? If not, its probably good for the server and everyone else.

As a casual scrub, I'm looking forward to see how the meta plays out in terms of the time value of loot in ToV.

[Convict]

good to see AM in here trying to prop up their main competition as the bad guys... no problems with the other guilds ever lol

you guys are sick

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Is Aftermath leadership supportive? If not, its probably good for the server and everyone else.

[Vianna]

Shit, man, it goes both ways. AM hasn't conceded the standard 2 before, too. Point I'm making is the most active guilds can't work together well enough to figure it out amongst ourselves and I wish we could.

You are crazy.

[Vianna]

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass! Now people can actually play ToV like it was meant to be played. Thank you Braknar!!!

You guys are in for a rude awakening.

[Vianna]

good to see AM in here trying to prop up their main competition as the bad guys... no problems with the other guilds ever lol

you guys are sick

AG is not that competitive.

[Heebs13]

AG is not that competitive.

It's really weird when you guys say how much we're ruining the raid scene but in the next breath you say things like this, or as another AM member claimed, you guys still get '86% of targets'. It kind of makes it sound like AM still gets the lion's share of the endgame but then takes to RnF every time one of their members feels slighted by not getting the pixels they wanted that particular week. At the very least it comes off as childish.

[Matalus]

Hey guys. What's going on in here?

[ajohnymous]

It's really weird when you guys say how much we're ruining the raid scene but in the next breath you say things like this, or as another AM member claimed, you guys still get '86% of targets'. It kind of makes it sound like AM still gets the lion's share of the endgame but then takes to RnF every time one of their members feels slighted by not getting the pixels they wanted that particular week. At the very least it comes off as childish.

[Vianna]

It's really weird when you guys say how much we're ruining the raid scene but in the next breath you say things like this, or as another AM member claimed, you guys still get '86% of targets'. It kind of makes it sound like AM still gets the lion's share of the endgame but then takes to RnF every time one of their members feels slighted by not getting the pixels they wanted that particular week. At the very least it comes off as childish.

Well for example. You guys killed what 2 ToV mobs this cycle that we weren't conceded on. 1 of those came after you trained zone in with the mob and you still repulled it.

So if you think 2 out of 15 is competing.... Grats ? The hate as I have seen it comes from the times you guys literally train everyone and then try to blame other people for it when your guild was clearly the one that brought trains to the steps outside of zone in door.

[tylercanuck]

Well for example. You guys killed what 2 ToV mobs this cycle that we weren't conceded on. 1 of those came after you trained zone in with the mob and you still repulled it.

So if you think 2 out of 15 is competing.... Grats ? The hate as I have seen it comes from the times you guys literally train everyone and then try to blame other people for it when your guild was clearly the one that brought trains to the steps outside of zone in door.

Very true. I also heard they lost the last Vulak after pulling it in because they couldn't manage a flurry add. Must have been heart wrenching.

[Heebs13]

Well for example. You guys killed what 2 ToV mobs this cycle that we weren't conceded on. 1 of those came after you trained zone in with the mob and you still repulled it.

So if you think 2 out of 15 is competing.... Grats ? The hate as I have seen it comes from the times you guys literally train everyone and then try to blame other people for it when your guild was clearly the one that brought trains to the steps outside of zone in door.

Well hold on. Not that I really want to argue the minutia of the terrible ToV rules, but when AM brought a train to steps and dropped it and then that train aggrod an AG member who was at entrance, that was considered AG's fault even though it was AM's train. Is that not how it works this week too? I could see how that would get confusing if the rules change every week. I wasn't there this week, so maybe you meant to say AG brought it to the entrance and not the steps?

[Convict]

You guys are in for a rude awakening.

saying stuff like this is why nobody likes you guys

There has been 1 constant variable in the last like what 4 years in the shit show of ToV raiding. Would you like to take a guess at what it is? :rolleyes:

Aftermath is always the ones on forums bitching about how its the other guys ruining everything. You guys are saints, you never pull dirty shit, you always concede, its the other guys fault? lmao
It doesnt matter what guild comes into ToV to contest, AM is going to smear them hard as they can on the forums. It was rampage ruining the raid scene, then awakened, then tempest, now its AG. Cant possibly be the guys that have been there all along spraying their diarrhea all over the raid scene and suffocating their competition with zerg recruiting and strong arming with lawyerquest.

You guys don't want competition you want to monopolize and that's not a healthy raid scene, period. The GM's know this and the changes they usually make are to try and level the playing field some which usually messes with AM's monopoly and that's why its only you guys on here bitching everytime the GM's change something.

[Daloon]

saying stuff like this is why nobody likes you guys


This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

[Mistle]

Ugh it's like Maner is back, except dumber.

[feniin]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

Man, you sound really cool. Like, I hope everyone is putting in apps to Aftermath so they can hear you sperg out in Teamspeak every week when someone gets a single mob over AM.

[Heebs13]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

I'M A WINNER, MOM.

[Wonkie]

Ugh it's like Maner is back, except dumber.

[k9quaint]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

What if we told you that we don't care that you don't care that some people don't like Aftermath. I am not against people being against you without you. Nobody should give feces to anyone. I doubt you personally get the killing blow on 15 dragons a week, logs or it doesn't happen. We don't sit here wondering if you like forum-questers nor do we believe it. EQ cannot be won, it can only be played. Most dragons are only 7 days old or we wouldn't have this thread.

[Kayso2]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

Everything everyone needs to know about you in order to put your opinion in the proper context can be found by looking back at your post history. You can't just post an opinion, you always have to be such a dick about it.

Speaking of sucking dick. Did anyone hate or talk more shit about Detoxx than you? Fast forward a year of two; Detoxx is #1 King of the Box and now you're #1 nut-swinging tribal sycophant. But you'll swallow your pride (or even take a shot in the mouth) if it gets you some pixels, amirite?

Seek help, brah. Maybe Charter Hospitals has a program for your addiction. I bet you'll still be a dick afterward, but progress is progress.

[Convict]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

lot of post for someone that doesnt care what the rest of the server thinks of them

[Kesselring]

See this is the problem. From my view, AM tries to dodge concessions and tries to pin them on us. We legit don't pull shady shit and our mentality is owning up to mistakes we make. We love raiding and we hate lawyer questing and want to avoid it. No flame, no joke, and I'm sorry we have to talk like this on RnF let alone on a public forum. I wish our guilds could work together better, but for some reason we can't and I don't know why.

Lol its not intentional. Do you know how many fucking rules youre needed to remember and how difficult this game actually is compared to other games? A lot of AM leadership actually has lives or they play other games, momentary lapse of judgement due to there being so many fuckin rules you have to remember and a high pressure competitive environment tend to lead to unintentional mistakes. Everyone saying AM does it on purpose, I invite you to join the guild and see for yourself.
What you find out may make you look like an asshole for assuming though.

[Convict]

Lol its not intentional. Do you know how many fucking rules youre needed to remember and how difficult this game actually is compared to other games? A lot of AM leadership actually has lives or they play other games, momentary lapse of judgement due to there being so many fuckin rules you have to remember and a high pressure competitive environment tend to lead to unintentional mistakes. Everyone saying AM does it on purpose, I invite you to join the guild and see for yourself.
What you find out may make you look like an asshole for assuming though.

I thought this game was super easy and there's nothing hard about killing 20 year old dragons?? which one is it?? You guys are loaded with so many inconsistencies its hilarious

[Viscere]

I am about to go outside blindfolded wearing a sign

"I am in Aftermath, hug me"

[DromalPhrenia]

I am about to go outside blindfolded wearing a sign

"I am in Aftermath, hug me"

I am going to go outside during the day with a lantern and a sign saying
"I am looking for an honest raider"

[reevesz]

AM has always made it right. AG is the one who constantly tries to dodge concessions. Core and Paradigm Shift are easy to work with.

[Sat Mar 30 02:58:09 2019] Jorlleag engages Magerin!
[Sat Mar 30 02:58:09 2019] Lady Nevederia engages Magerin!
[Sat Mar 30 02:58:22 2019] Alreddy says out of character, 'Lady N target'
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:17 2019] Lady Nevederia engages Draznik!
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:17 2019] Jorlleag engages Draznik!
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:27 2019] Qyba says out of character, 'Lady N target'
[Sat Mar 30 03:01:29 2019] Elzhi says out of character, 'AM concedes Lady Nevederia'
[Sat Mar 30 03:05:05 2019] Jorlleag engages Alreddy!

Please explain Elzhi. Not being a dick like the others, but wondering what mindset was going on when you made this call and went after Jorlleag without waiting the 30 minute lockout.

[aaezil]

Yeah it probably will be for the people who didn't kill the stuff regularly. We really made the content itself trivial though because of how good everyone is. The content for me was working with a team to get the dragon into the zone-in, which is really difficult. But I know I can clear up to the spawn every week and kill every mob in that zone with minimal difficulty. The challenge I liked is gone and that's a bummer but oh well. Certain people will enjoy this style and I wish them the best. If the server ever changes to pulls again i'll definitely be back.

If you’re mad about having to play classic everquest i hate to inform you that this isnt the correct server for you.

[Jimjam]

This one might come as a shocker,

But what if I told you that we don't care if you like Aftermath? If you aint with us, you're against us, and we really give no shits about the haters. When I kill 15 NTOV dragons each week in my pixel elf-land, I don't sit here wondering if some forumquester likes me or my guild, believe it or not. You play to win the fucking game... well, we do, you prob just suck dick, indicated by your inability to kill 20 year old dragons without teaming with 3 guilds.

You gonna be ok brah?

It's only winning if you engage in some really radical RP, otherwise you're just engaging in some dragon based content Groundhog Day.

[Kesselring]

I thought this game was super easy and there's nothing hard about killing 20 year old dragons?? which one is it?? You guys are loaded with so many inconsistencies its hilarious

Its funny that you take what every corner cleric says on this forum as the bible of what the whole guild thinks. Anybody who does the pulls week in and week out will tell you that mistakes happen, the pulls dont always go perfect and there are many links in the chain that can break to make a pull fail.

I guarantee you the people in AM/AG/Core that matter will all tell you exactly what I said is true. Just because you're outraged doesnt mean that the people you dont know set out to hurt you on purpose. But hey I guess we all cant have a sane approach to this raid environment.

[Convict]

Its funny that you take what every corner cleric says on this forum as the bible of what the whole guild thinks. Anybody who does the pulls week in and week out will tell you that mistakes happen, the pulls dont always go perfect and there are many links in the chain that can break to make a pull fail.

I guarantee you the people in AM/AG/Core that matter will all tell you exactly what I said is true. Just because you're outraged doesnt mean that the people you dont know set out to hurt you on purpose. But hey I guess we all cant have a sane approach to this raid environment.

outraged? what corner cleric? are you calling dannyl a corner cleric? I don't know wtf you are talking about... I'm well aware what goes into ToV pulls, I was calling AM out on contradicting itself all the time to spew rhetoric to support whatever their current narrative is, that's all. I think you are reading into it too much, perhaps projecting?

I actually think the new rules are great, guilds actually have to put real effort into killing ToV dragons. I just think AM is a joke on the forums that's all.
I think your guild is the problem with the raid scene on the server and has been for the last few years, as is any guild that plays with the mind set of monopolizing the entire raid scene, then you guys try so hard to smear your competition on the forums to make them look like the bad guys when its always been you.

[rezzie]

[Sat Mar 30 03:05:05 2019] Jorlleag engages Alreddy!

Please explain Elzhi.

Looks like Alreddy chalked up another sweet FTE in that laughable alt gear and three naked slots.

[Daloon]

I just think AM is a joke on the forums that's all.
As oppose to being a serious forum poster? :confused:

Aftermath clearly has more fun. This aint church it's RNF.

[jpetrick]

[Sat Mar 30 02:58:09 2019] Jorlleag engages Magerin!
[Sat Mar 30 02:58:09 2019] Lady Nevederia engages Magerin!
[Sat Mar 30 02:58:22 2019] Alreddy says out of character, 'Lady N target'
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:17 2019] Lady Nevederia engages Draznik!
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:17 2019] Jorlleag engages Draznik!
[Sat Mar 30 02:59:27 2019] Qyba says out of character, 'Lady N target'
[Sat Mar 30 03:01:29 2019] Elzhi says out of character, 'AM concedes Lady Nevederia'
[Sat Mar 30 03:05:05 2019] Jorlleag engages Alreddy!

Please explain Elzhi. Not being a dick like the others, but wondering what mindset was going on when you made this call and went after Jorlleag without waiting the 30 minute lockout.

When you concede a mob your lockout ends.

[jpetrick]

We interfered with your pull when a very sleepy monk of ours tagged your Lady N. That’s pull interference so we instantly conceded Lady N.

[reevesz]

Again, not to sound like an asshole.

What about these current raid rules, particularly Q25? You clearly stated that Lady N is the target.

Q25: If my guild FTE's or engages a raid target, how long must we wait before FTE'ing or engaging another raid target?
A: If a guild/party FTEs or engages a raid target, they may not FTE or engage a second raid target until the first one is dead or until 30 minutes has passed (this doesn't apply to triggered spawn targets that your guild triggered/spawned). Example: If your guild is in EJ and you have Sev incoming to your raid, but then Vulak pops, you are no longer allowed to just drop the Sev pull to go for Vulak. You must either kill Sev, or wait 30 minutes before FTEing a new target. The only thing this rule does is further force guilds to prioritize which targets they go after. It does not change any other aspect of raiding on the server.

[jpetrick]

Again, not to sound like an asshole.

What about these current raid rules, particularly Q25? You clearly stated that Lady N is the target.

Q25: If my guild FTE's or engages a raid target, how long must we wait before FTE'ing or engaging another raid target?
A: If a guild/party FTEs or engages a raid target, they may not FTE or engage a second raid target until the first one is dead or until 30 minutes has passed (this doesn't apply to triggered spawn targets that your guild triggered/spawned). Example: If your guild is in EJ and you have Sev incoming to your raid, but then Vulak pops, you are no longer allowed to just drop the Sev pull to go for Vulak. You must either kill Sev, or wait 30 minutes before FTEing a new target. The only thing this rule does is further force guilds to prioritize which targets they go after. It does not change any other aspect of raiding on the server.

Sirken told us conceding a mob ends a lockout. AM has been playing this was since the AW/AM days. We even told the guilds as such in the P99 UN discord.

[reevesz]

Yet everyone outside of Aftermath disagrees with what you said. Any chance you have a screenshot of Sirken saying that? That would definitely clear the air for upcoming guilds.

[Heebs13]

Sirken told us conceding a mob ends a lockout. AM has been playing this was since the AW/AM days. We even told the guilds as such in the P99 UN discord.

Love it when the GMs contradict the written rules. That's not your fault though.

[jpetrick]

Yet everyone outside of Aftermath disagrees with what you said. Any chance you have a screenshot of Sirken saying that? That would definitely clear the air for upcoming guilds.

Would have to ask Detoxx or Sirken. We’ve been playing this way for years. There are a lot of secret Sirken rules that have been made and aren’t displayed anywhere. This was a pretty common thing for Sirken to do. Tell one party a ruling but never inform the other party. Awakened would get a ruling and we wouldn’t hear about it until it came up or vice versa.

[maskedmelon]

Yet everyone outside of Aftermath disagrees with what you said. Any chance you have a screenshot of Sirken saying that? That would definitely clear the air for upcoming guilds.

this is the sort of brain rot that lead to the collapse of Awakened and Tempest :c

the intent of the lockout is to prevent guilds from monopolizing and/or stalling content. the rules aren't meant to be a gotcha thing. it's common sense mon amis.

[Kesselring]

outraged? what corner cleric? are you calling dannyl a corner cleric? I don't know wtf you are talking about... I'm well aware what goes into ToV pulls, I was calling AM out on contradicting itself all the time to spew rhetoric to support whatever their current narrative is, that's all. I think you are reading into it too much, perhaps projecting?

I actually think the new rules are great, guilds actually have to put real effort into killing ToV dragons. I just think AM is a joke on the forums that's all.
I think your guild is the problem with the raid scene on the server and has been for the last few years, as is any guild that plays with the mind set of monopolizing the entire raid scene, then you guys try so hard to smear your competition on the forums to make them look like the bad guys when its always been you.

Dannyl is talking about the game being easy in a different sense. He's literally taunting you and its succeeding because you believe him. The way things actually are, are quite different. You're avoiding what I said completely for a nuanced argument that doesnt even really matter. Tell me do you really think that AM intentionally tries to hinder a guild when a situation doesn't favor them? I don't need some 5 paragraph argument because you feel the urge to just prove everyone wrong on the internet every single day, just a simple yes they do or no they don't, and why you think so.