A public apology to Clorox.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I acted rudely towards Clorox last night in Karnor's, and he was undeserving of such treatment. I went to apologize later, he was offline so I come here. To apologize yes, but also in part because it came down to a NBG disagreement. First, the situation.

Clorox had joined our group last night, and after a short time made the comment in group, bring me a tstaff. I asked if he was serious, he said something to the effect of, Yes I could sell it to buy stuff I needed. I disbanded him from the group. Now, this was rude and discourteous of me, and anything I state about NBG, or my frustration at the hours camping there mean nothing. I should not have acted that way despite my disagreement. I should have informed him this was NBG, and let him disband, not simply rudely remove him. I told him I would be damned if someone was going to join a group and expect to roll on a rare class specific item that I had been camping for, well, nearing 100 hours I am sure.

NBG... I think it is a misnomer sometimes. What defines need? Simply because you can use an item does not necessarily mean you will, and often times people claim NBG and then simply sell it. And then the next time they claim Need again for the same item, when in fact that is greed. Is it greed to want something to sell so you can buy things you need? What about if someone in the group genuinely need, then is the need equal? Does the rarity of the item factor into the equation? Is it even correct to term it greed? Some sell for items they need, some may not. Which is greed?

I see both sides of the argument. And in fact, I agree with the people who say 'greed' is the only fair way to do it. Everyone contributes in the group, and what incentive do people have to group certain locations if they have no chance at loot? This is why we do NBG for guild groups, or friends, right? This is one reason why you prefer guild groups, over pugs, to ensure it goes to those that can use. Because then, that benefits the guild as a whole. Pugs, or groups with strangers, or people who do not directly benefit you, should be greed groups.

I understand completely. I agree with the points made, the concerns voiced. I disagree, however,with what lies behind. I played on the server Tunare originally, and we didn't use DKP, we used what was called seniority. Now this was similar to how DKP worked it out in the end, basically if someone had been on 20 fear raids, and you 5, well the druid legs that dropped (if you were druids) were theirs. What was your incentive to raid? To build a reputation, to earn your spot, your turn. You didn't get invited to raids back then without a reputation. Without earning your stripes, as it were. In rare situations, there were rolls. We also used a last piece rule. If you needed one piece to complete an armor set, it was yours. I liked this system. Now there were flaws. We did not have clerics, or enchanters on fear raids. I remember maybe one fear raid where we had one cleric. Breaks were brutal. What was there for the clerics or enchanters to risk, or gain on an open fear raid?

It also worked in loot camps. Take frenzied. If it is NBG, what point is there for a cleric to come? EXP? I suppose it was different before spells started dropping of random mobs, but the point held. It was seniority. You were at the camp the longest in the group, you got the next sash. Essentially a list, within the group. No rolls, the guy that had 20 hours there was first up, and the player there 1 hour, wouldn't win and walk away. I hadn't heard of NBG or DKP until the server splits, and I encountered Mithaniel Marr players on Drinal.

I suppose DKP was the fairest way to do it amongst raiding guilds, because the only other way was to have a tight knit group of friends who all trust each other, and a leader or leaders who are trusted implicitly. This does not exist in the majority of guilds I have encountered in my time in EQ. How do you be fair to all, and reward the ones who attend the most raids? How do you not only be fair, but appear to be fair, to show you are being fair. How can people know, and view, the rewards for their efforts. If I make every raid for a month, I want to be rewarded more then the guy who did 4! So while it may not be the perfect solution, this is not a utopia, nor an ideal world/situation, so we come up with the best we can. And it works. But make no mistake, it is not perfect. But I digress, back to NBG on p99, in groups.

I think that everyone, whether they admit it not, want to be rewarded for their efforts. I would wager the high majority of players would be angry if someone got a piece of loot in 30 minutes, that they had been camping for weeks on end. Heck, think of how most feel, or what they say in this situation. You form a pickup group for any camp in game. You have been there for 5 hours, and a player has to leave. His replacement arrives, within 20 minutes a named is pulled, the loot is rolled, and they win. You know it happens. Are most of you happy? Or is the reaction usually somewhere along the lines of, "I have been here 5 hours, and this noob joins and wins loot within 20 minutes. WTF. " Now I ask you, is 'greed' totally fair there? Say it is an extremely valuable piece of loot. You have been camping it for 10 hours daily, for 12 days. The 13th day it finally drops, it is your class only, and a player on their first day in that zone ever wins it. A player you invited. What would your reaction be? Say you are forming a pickup raid for Nagafen. You form raids for him for 2 months. The next raid, the Cloak of Flames drop, which you really wanted. A 43 warrior on his first ever Nagafen raid attends, and wins. Is that fair? Or would you honestly rather you receive it, for all the work and time you put into obtaining it.

I understand every argument that says 'greed' rolls is the only true way to be fair. The points are valid, and true. Completely rational. And to an extent fair. And I only agree it is far, because of the simple question, "How do you define need?" Honestly, how does one define need on a guild raid. Is it usually need, or want, for most loot. Do the special drops really get divided fairly? Or go to a select few usually based on the efforts they make on behalf of the guild? Is it always purely DKP, or are there officers who add input and weigh it against the DKP?

I am of the mind I would like to be able to trust everyone. Unfortunately we all know this will never be reality, as people are everything from kind and considerate to selfish and petty. Some will seek to take advantage of need, as well as greed. I will say this. In some groups, rolling is the only fairway to do some things. But I tell you this. I prefer the Golden rule, vs any NBG rule you have. I know myself, I would not want someone rolling on a piece of loot I could use, and because of that I would not take anything they could use. I am not so ignorant someone can claim need all the time and get one over on me or my group. I am also not naive enough to believe no one could pull a fast one on me, and take advantage of using NBG in my group. NBG is a misnomer most of the time when I see it used. Maybe it should be UBS, Use before sell, or something equivalent. Call it Shaere da loot system if you will. Personally, I think it all depends. Every situation, piece of loot, players in group is different. With Pugs, or open groups, you can usually tell. Most of us can tell by looking at a player, without even inspecting them, what they need. You can tell by their spells, their gear, their level, their guildtag, how often you see them, if ever!

Call it naive if you will, but in my groups if it drop and you can use it, grats you. Provided I don't see you have better, or suspect it. I will ask. If you think you are smart, or slick if you manage to pull one over, you aren't. You're just a greedy wanker who will get their comeuppance one day. Karma is a bitch. But all this leads me back to...you are not greedy for wanting to sell items to buy stuff you need. But just as you can argue your need vs my need, I can argue you may not actually sell it for stuff you need, and your possible greed does not outweigh my possible need. If I am something I need, do not expect to roll. But I guarantee you this. Unlike certain other people, I will never roll on an item you need. You can either trust me or not. But you most certainly will not roll for something someone needs/will use in my group even if your claim is legitimate in that you would sell it for stuff you need. I choose being naive and fooled by someone who claims they will use it, over someone who claims they will use it to buy stuff they need. A lesser of two evils if you wish.

And Clorox? I apologize for my behavior. I should not have removed you from group so abruptly, you did nothing to warrant such treatment. You are not selfish or greedy in your thinking, I simply view the situation with a wider scope, or perhaps more narrowly. Rest assured if you wish to camp an item you can use and you need my help, I would attach no price tag to it. Or , if the camp I was in dropped an item you could use and I could not, I would not deign to deny you that item. I would help you without recompense or reward. Sufficed to say, it is enough you need my help, you would not need to promise me loot or a chance at loot for that help. I camp items I need, and will help others do the same. If I want an item, I go camp it. Imagine someone or someones camping a cleric epic camp/item....and selling you the loot rights to that mob.

No thank you.

[G13]

They are just pixels bro

It's a fucking game man

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yes, but it was not the pixels that prompted this. I treated another person poorly, and unfairly. If he deserved it, eh. But he didn't.

[naez]

Jesus christ

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/training_wheels_motorcycle.jpg

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

If he chooses to weigh in, so be it.

[G13]

This is WAY too much time, energy, and emotional investment being put into a karnor's camp

Go seek therapy

[G13]

P.S. I'm not trying to be an asshole

You are not doing yourself any favors by creating this thread. Once the trolls wake up in the morning they are going to have a field day with this shit.

[Salty]

Once the trolls wake up in the morning they are going to have a field day with this shit.

you tell em

[Ruinous]

I didn't need to read through 50 paragraphs to know you act like a douche to people.

Are you on bi-polar meds? You may want to look into it.

[luzbel]

Thx for rez Clorox!

[Salty]

same guy?

http://poopspant.com/mitic/clorax.png

[abegedun]

why do people play this crap?

[Rais]

T staff is making people go nuts yo.

[Sephrana]

I didn't need to read through 50 paragraphs to know you act like a douche to people.

Are you on bi-polar meds? You may want to look into it.

Why do people always use bipolar as an excuse for someone acting like what they perceive to be a jerk? Please look up the DSM-IV criteria for bipolar disorder classification. Bipolar =/= Asshole. Thanks. :)

As for Shaere treating people poorly: I have always thought of Shaere as a military leader type. Someone who demands perfection. Does he have strong opinions? Yes. Is he demanding of the players in his group? yep. Is it such a bad thing that he thinks the person for whom a piece of loot is the biggest upgrade should get it? I don't think so.

TBH if i'm in a group and a piece of singing steel drops that I don't have and you make me random on it - I'm going to think you are the greediest prick in the universe. Especially if you say you are selling it to buy yourself some loot.

But maybe that's just because I too am an ex-tunarian and have the opinion that the item goes to whoever it is the biggest upgrade for first and if it isn't an upgrade for anyone or no one needs then you random. *shrug*

[hedbonker]

tl;dr

[casdegere]

Is this about PUGs? It seems that there are WAY more trouble with PUGs recently. Again its lack of communication at the onset. New people coming in every so often without being told the group is NBG etc. Others in the group feeling jilted when someone who just joined needs an item that just dropped more than them. Its just a game though like others have noted.

I also know that people use their highest level toons to get gear for their lower level toons. If you are in a high level PUG and some people are camping to get twink gear and others are playing their mains you should expect to have issues...if no one communicates. What happens though, and I think it's happening more often, people say nothing for a reason. If your camping for twink gear using your 50th level character and your MA had to go, can you continue without another one? Not likely in some places. So you send tells and finally get a new one so you can continue the camp. When this new guy wants a right to the dropped loot, you get angry and its not right.

[Japan]

P.S. I'm not trying to be an asshole

You are not doing yourself any favors by creating this thread. Once the trolls wake up in the late afternoon they are going to have a field day with this shit.

[Messianic]

Whatever the group agrees upon is the rule.

However, I hate NBG. It's so easily abused. Nothing stops people from using "need" to get a really good class item and then just sell it - and odds are they eventually will. Tstaff - maybe not, but it's still a maybe.

Even if i'm the monk when Tstaff drops, someone else could probably make just as good use of the cash from selling it, since the value is transferable, and no one has to wonder whether or not that monk is simply going to sell it a month from now and twink a different class.

If everyone rolls on stuff, everyone has an equal shot at the same value the item represents. That's far more equitable than installing the infallible notion of "need" which people turn around and abuse. If the group opts to give the class-specific item to the person who would use it the most effectively, fine. But especially for PUGs, it's not equitable to NBG if you're holding a camp that drops stuff that 2 or 3 people will never use. Assuming that they'll be in a situation at some other time where they're that class that needs everything a certain camp drops is just an assumption.

TL;DR - Instead of NBG, how about we admit everyone is greedy (we're playing a freaking game where the goal is to have fun, but also get better gear) and embrace it.

[jilena]

Too much thought put into all of this. NBG = A greedy selfish loot system. Everyone needs money, any item that is tradeable is worth money. The feeling that an item is yours simply because you can equip it is greedy and selfish. "Greeding" all tradeable items is the least greedy system.

Do I insist on rolling on everything? No. Not so much because NBG is more fair, but because I don't give that much of a shit. Would I take advantage of NBG in a group where it was the agreed upon loot system? Yes, assuming I would actually use the item.

*shrug*

[Ashimar]

Posting an Apology thread in the R&F forum? Project99 Characters need a new stat, lets call it "Common Sense"

[Tolinn]

Whatever the group agrees upon is the rule.

However, I hate NBG. It's so easily abused. Nothing stops people from using "need" to get a really good class item and then just sell it - and odds are they eventually will. Tstaff - maybe not, but it's still a maybe.

Even if i'm the monk when Tstaff drops, someone else could probably make just as good use of the cash from selling it, since the value is transferable, and no one has to wonder whether or not that monk is simply going to sell it a month from now and twink a different class.

If everyone rolls on stuff, everyone has an equal shot at the same value the item represents. That's far more equitable than installing the infallible notion of "need" which people turn around and abuse. If the group opts to give the class-specific item to the person who would use it the most effectively, fine. But especially for PUGs, it's not equitable to NBG if you're holding a camp that drops stuff that 2 or 3 people will never use. Assuming that they'll be in a situation at some other time where they're that class that needs everything a certain camp drops is just an assumption.

TL;DR - Instead of NBG, how about we admit everyone is greedy (we're playing a freaking game where the goal is to have fun, but also get better gear) and embrace it.

This. I recently was in a group where someone NBGed an item, didn't equip it, and then attempted to sell it before I called them out on it. Sorry, but I just don't trust PUGs enough to do NBG. That being said, I'm not going to disband myself from a group if NBG is the determined loot system, but it's not what I advocate.

T

[casdegere]

Whatever the group agrees upon is the rule.

However, I hate NBG. It's so easily abused. Nothing stops people from using "need" to get a really good class item and then just sell it - and odds are they eventually will. Tstaff - maybe not, but it's still a maybe.

Even if i'm the monk when Tstaff drops, someone else could probably make just as good use of the cash from selling it, since the value is transferable, and no one has to wonder whether or not that monk is simply going to sell it a month from now and twink a different class.

If everyone rolls on stuff, everyone has an equal shot at the same value the item represents. That's far more equitable than installing the infallible notion of "need" which people turn around and abuse. If the group opts to give the class-specific item to the person who would use it the most effectively, fine. But especially for PUGs, it's not equitable to NBG if you're holding a camp that drops stuff that 2 or 3 people will never use. Assuming that they'll be in a situation at some other time where they're that class that needs everything a certain camp drops is just an assumption.

TL;DR - Instead of NBG, how about we admit everyone is greedy (we're playing a freaking game where the goal is to have fun, but also get better gear) and embrace it.

There are people on this server with only 1 character that do not "camp" in EC to buy an item they are wanting. They get in groups and camp the mob that drops it.

Say you are a Monk in UGUK grouping and getting xp. You show up at the entrance and slap LFG on. Your telling me you would argue tooth and nail if the group was camping Scryer or AC and the INT bracers or sleeves dropped with casters in your group that need them?

I will contend it might be different for 50+ levels camping things. But mark me when I say, if there are 4 guildies that invite people into your group because you need them with the intend to shuttle any dropped items amongst yourselves, expect an argument if you don't communicate your intentions to the person you intend to chump.

[Japan]

Posting an Apology thread in the R&F forum? Project99 Characters need a new stat, lets call it "Common Sense"

ingame charisma should be dictated by number of R&F posts imo

[Messianic]

There are people on this server with only 1 character that do not "camp" in EC to buy an item they are wanting. They get in groups and camp the mob that drops it.

That's nice, but it's irrelevant to what I was saying.

Say you are a Monk in UGUK grouping and getting xp. You show up at the entrance and slap LFG on. Your telling me you would argue tooth and nail if the group was camping Scryer or AC and the INT bracers or sleeves dropped with casters in your group that need them?

No, actually my first statement indicates I wouldn't do that. Again, whatever the group agrees is the rule. If they have 5 people who are NBGing, I can leave - but I can't make them change the rule. I don't know if this is the case for you, but people seem terrified to actually discuss loot rules sometimes - as if it's a "dirty" subject or something. That's the primary way to get punked - not talk about something which is one of the primary reasons you're even in the group.

I will contend it might be different for 50+ levels camping things. But mark me when I say, if there are 4 guildies that invite people into your group because you need them with the intend to shuttle any dropped items amongst yourselves, expect an argument if you don't communicate your intentions to the person you intend to chump.

If you never check what loot rules are - particularly if the rest of the people in the group are guildies - you're going to eventually get chumped if you play for any length of time. Fact. You assumed something that wasn't true - that the group would be NBG - and that's your fault. I sure hope group communication skills extend beyond "thx for invite", "incoming mob", "add", and "heal plz."

[jilena]

If loot discussion takes more than a few seconds there is lootwhoring involved. No one NEEDS anything in EQ I mean seriously.

[Weezard]

I acted rudely towards Clorox last night in Karnor's, and he was undeserving of such treatment. I went to apologize later, he was offline so I come here. To apologize yes, but also in part because it came down to a NBG disagreement. First, the situation.

Clorox had joined our group last night, and after a short time made the comment in group, bring me a tstaff. I asked if he was serious, he said something to the effect of, Yes I could sell it to buy stuff I needed. I disbanded him from the group. Now, this was rude and discourteous of me, and anything I state about NBG, or my frustration at the hours camping there mean nothing. I should not have acted that way despite my disagreement. I should have informed him this was NBG, and let him disband, not simply rudely remove him. I told him I would be damned if someone was going to join a group and expect to roll on a rare class specific item that I had been camping for, well, nearing 100 hours I am sure.

NBG... I think it is a misnomer sometimes. What defines need? Simply because you can use an item does not necessarily mean you will, and often times people claim NBG and then simply sell it. And then the next time they claim Need again for the same item, when in fact that is greed. Is it greed to want something to sell so you can buy things you need? What about if someone in the group genuinely need, then is the need equal? Does the rarity of the item factor into the equation? Is it even correct to term it greed? Some sell for items they need, some may not. Which is greed?

I see both sides of the argument. And in fact, I agree with the people who say 'greed' is the only fair way to do it. Everyone contributes in the group, and what incentive do people have to group certain locations if they have no chance at loot? This is why we do NBG for guild groups, or friends, right? This is one reason why you prefer guild groups, over pugs, to ensure it goes to those that can use. Because then, that benefits the guild as a whole. Pugs, or groups with strangers, or people who do not directly benefit you, should be greed groups.

I understand completely. I agree with the points made, the concerns voiced. I disagree, however,with what lies behind. I played on the server Tunare originally, and we didn't use DKP, we used what was called seniority. Now this was similar to how DKP worked it out in the end, basically if someone had been on 20 fear raids, and you 5, well the druid legs that dropped (if you were druids) were theirs. What was your incentive to raid? To build a reputation, to earn your spot, your turn. You didn't get invited to raids back then without a reputation. Without earning your stripes, as it were. In rare situations, there were rolls. We also used a last piece rule. If you needed one piece to complete an armor set, it was yours. I liked this system. Now there were flaws. We did not have clerics, or enchanters on fear raids. I remember maybe one fear raid where we had one cleric. Breaks were brutal. What was there for the clerics or enchanters to risk, or gain on an open fear raid?

It also worked in loot camps. Take frenzied. If it is NBG, what point is there for a cleric to come? EXP? I suppose it was different before spells started dropping of random mobs, but the point held. It was seniority. You were at the camp the longest in the group, you got the next sash. Essentially a list, within the group. No rolls, the guy that had 20 hours there was first up, and the player there 1 hour, wouldn't win and walk away. I hadn't heard of NBG or DKP until the server splits, and I encountered Mithaniel Marr players on Drinal.

I suppose DKP was the fairest way to do it amongst raiding guilds, because the only other way was to have a tight knit group of friends who all trust each other, and a leader or leaders who are trusted implicitly. This does not exist in the majority of guilds I have encountered in my time in EQ. How do you be fair to all, and reward the ones who attend the most raids? How do you not only be fair, but appear to be fair, to show you are being fair. How can people know, and view, the rewards for their efforts. If I make every raid for a month, I want to be rewarded more then the guy who did 4! So while it may not be the perfect solution, this is not a utopia, nor an ideal world/situation, so we come up with the best we can. And it works. But make no mistake, it is not perfect. But I digress, back to NBG on p99, in groups.

I think that everyone, whether they admit it not, want to be rewarded for their efforts. I would wager the high majority of players would be angry if someone got a piece of loot in 30 minutes, that they had been camping for weeks on end. Heck, think of how most feel, or what they say in this situation. You form a pickup group for any camp in game. You have been there for 5 hours, and a player has to leave. His replacement arrives, within 20 minutes a named is pulled, the loot is rolled, and they win. You know it happens. Are most of you happy? Or is the reaction usually somewhere along the lines of, "I have been here 5 hours, and this noob joins and wins loot within 20 minutes. WTF. " Now I ask you, is 'greed' totally fair there? Say it is an extremely valuable piece of loot. You have been camping it for 10 hours daily, for 12 days. The 13th day it finally drops, it is your class only, and a player on their first day in that zone ever wins it. A player you invited. What would your reaction be? Say you are forming a pickup raid for Nagafen. You form raids for him for 2 months. The next raid, the Cloak of Flames drop, which you really wanted. A 43 warrior on his first ever Nagafen raid attends, and wins. Is that fair? Or would you honestly rather you receive it, for all the work and time you put into obtaining it.

I understand every argument that says 'greed' rolls is the only true way to be fair. The points are valid, and true. Completely rational. And to an extent fair. And I only agree it is far, because of the simple question, "How do you define need?" Honestly, how does one define need on a guild raid. Is it usually need, or want, for most loot. Do the special drops really get divided fairly? Or go to a select few usually based on the efforts they make on behalf of the guild? Is it always purely DKP, or are there officers who add input and weigh it against the DKP?

I am of the mind I would like to be able to trust everyone. Unfortunately we all know this will never be reality, as people are everything from kind and considerate to selfish and petty. Some will seek to take advantage of need, as well as greed. I will say this. In some groups, rolling is the only fairway to do some things. But I tell you this. I prefer the Golden rule, vs any NBG rule you have. I know myself, I would not want someone rolling on a piece of loot I could use, and because of that I would not take anything they could use. I am not so ignorant someone can claim need all the time and get one over on me or my group. I am also not naive enough to believe no one could pull a fast one on me, and take advantage of using NBG in my group. NBG is a misnomer most of the time when I see it used. Maybe it should be UBS, Use before sell, or something equivalent. Call it Shaere da loot system if you will. Personally, I think it all depends. Every situation, piece of loot, players in group is different. With Pugs, or open groups, you can usually tell. Most of us can tell by looking at a player, without even inspecting them, what they need. You can tell by their spells, their gear, their level, their guildtag, how often you see them, if ever!

Call it naive if you will, but in my groups if it drop and you can use it, grats you. Provided I don't see you have better, or suspect it. I will ask. If you think you are smart, or slick if you manage to pull one over, you aren't. You're just a greedy wanker who will get their comeuppance one day. Karma is a bitch. But all this leads me back to...you are not greedy for wanting to sell items to buy stuff you need. But just as you can argue your need vs my need, I can argue you may not actually sell it for stuff you need, and your possible greed does not outweigh my possible need. If I am something I need, do not expect to roll. But I guarantee you this. Unlike certain other people, I will never roll on an item you need. You can either trust me or not. But you most certainly will not roll for something someone needs/will use in my group even if your claim is legitimate in that you would sell it for stuff you need. I choose being naive and fooled by someone who claims they will use it, over someone who claims they will use it to buy stuff they need. A lesser of two evils if you wish.

And Clorox? I apologize for my behavior. I should not have removed you from group so abruptly, you did nothing to warrant such treatment. You are not selfish or greedy in your thinking, I simply view the situation with a wider scope, or perhaps more narrowly. Rest assured if you wish to camp an item you can use and you need my help, I would attach no price tag to it. Or , if the camp I was in dropped an item you could use and I could not, I would not deign to deny you that item. I would help you without recompense or reward. Sufficed to say, it is enough you need my help, you would not need to promise me loot or a chance at loot for that help. I camp items I need, and will help others do the same. If I want an item, I go camp it. Imagine someone or someones camping a cleric epic camp/item....and selling you the loot rights to that mob.

No thank you.

[Polixenes]

I was in KC once when a shaman weapon dropped and the shaman in our group claimed NBG. After we gave it to him he said along the lines of "Thanks, I had to sell the last one I got to buy xxx so I'm glad I have one again."

NBG = good for guild groups. Awful for PUGs.

[eqravenprince]

Ideal world, I like need before greed. People helping others. Usually if I talk in the group about a specific item that I'm wanting, and no one says how badly they want the item before it drops. When the item actually does drop, no one ever rolls on it. Maybe I'm just lucky or perhaps it is me talking about it beforehand. Most people I've met in game are not greedy at all.

[Versus]

Monk drama

[Daldolma]

Shaere is a really good dude.

But NBG on T-staff is silly IMO. It's one thing if it's a random, 3k item. Fine, whatever, each person's roll is worth 500 plat. Just don't be a dick and let the guy that needs it have it. But on a t-staff, you're talking about each roll being worth ~40k in a full group, assuming the t-staff could sell for 240k. You can't be upset about people being unwilling to donate that roll to 'the greater good'. One NBG does not equal another. Just because a group NBG's Deepwater Boots (worth, what? 2k?) doesn't mean that the same group should NBG a Tranquil Staff.

NBG is a donation on the part of your group-mates. If they let you NBG an item, appreciate it and say thank you. If they don't, that sucks -- keep on keeping on, eventually you'll win the roll. It's one thing to get pissy if your group won't let you NBG a shitty item that is barely worth the time it takes to sell; it's another if they're just unwilling to donate a roll worth more than their entire EQ savings to some random monk they don't even know.

[Knuckle]

I'd just like to say, if you had played on VZTZ, you almost always grouped with guildies, if you grouped with guildies, you were awarded the item if it was class specific or an upgrade for your class, if no one needed the item as an upgrade, you could roll on it. In PuG settings it was pretty much the same thing, I rarely if ever in my 3 year tenure saw the bluebie pixelitis kick in, unless your name was Kaahbal.

It's very sad how degenerate and malicious bluebies get towards pixels, and it's sad that they can't transfer this pixel aggression into a pvp setting, its like a snapping turtle that only comes out when something shiny is near.

[Knuckle]

Shaere is a really good dude.

But NBG on T-staff is silly IMO. It's one thing if it's a random, 3k item. Fine, whatever, each person's roll is worth 500 plat. Just don't be a dick and let the guy that needs it have it. But on a t-staff, you're talking about each roll being worth ~40k in a full group, assuming the t-staff could sell for 240k. You can't be upset about people being unwilling to donate that roll to 'the greater good'. One NBG does not equal another. Just because a group NBG's Deepwater Boots (worth, what? 2k?) doesn't mean that the same group should NBG a Tranquil Staff.

NBG is a donation on the part of your group-mates. If they let you NBG an item, appreciate it and say thank you. If they don't, that sucks -- keep on keeping on, eventually you'll win the roll. It's one thing to get pissy if your group won't let you NBG a shitty item that is barely worth the time it takes to sell; it's another if they're just unwilling to donate a roll worth more than their entire EQ savings to some random monk they don't even know.

Guess the real answer is, get your guild to lockdown the T staff spawn and keep pugger twats out, yea?

[Daldolma]

Guess the real answer is, get your guild to lockdown the T staff spawn and keep pugger twats out, yea?

Yeah, basically.

Not really fair to ask 5 PUG members you hardly know to each sacrifice 40k on the altar of improving your main-hand.

Think of it this way: claiming NBG on a T-Staff is essentially the equivalent of asking everyone in your group for 40k donations. If it were a guild group, maybe they'd be okay with that -- you'd probably help them equally down the road. If it were good friends, maybe they'd be cool with that. But a group of guys you barely know? Doubt it. A T-staff, at this point of p99, is 240k. It'd sell overnight at that price. It's not something that would take a great deal of effort to sell, nor is it something with marginal value. It's platinum. Everyone needs platinum. There is no 'greed'.

What a monk should really do is just trio the camp with a cleric and an enchanter, and pre-buy their rolls on a T-Staff. Basically, find out how long they're willing to stay at the camp, and pay them -- say -- 1k / hour to forfeit their roll on the staff, if it were to drop. That way you get a t-staff for way less than market value, they get paid whether or not they get lucky, all of you get experience, and everyone's happy. Hurray.

[Smedy]

wtf was that :eek:

[naez]

a really long post about pixels

[Massive Marc]

a really long post about pixels

Everything that is posted on these boards is about pixels. All the free time you spend playing games is about pixels. Using it as some kind of insult, is only showing how fucking retarded you are.

[casdegere]

Yeah, basically.

Not really fair to ask 5 PUG members you hardly know to each sacrifice 40k on the altar of improving your main-hand.

Think of it this way: claiming NBG on a T-Staff is essentially the equivalent of asking everyone in your group for 40k donations. If it were a guild group, maybe they'd be okay with that -- you'd probably help them equally down the road. If it were good friends, maybe they'd be cool with that. But a group of guys you barely know? Doubt it. A T-staff, at this point of p99, is 240k. It'd sell overnight at that price. It's not something that would take a great deal of effort to sell, nor is it something with marginal value. It's platinum. Everyone needs platinum. There is no 'greed'.

What a monk should really do is just trio the camp with a cleric and an enchanter, and pre-buy their rolls on a T-Staff. Basically, find out how long they're willing to stay at the camp, and pay them -- say -- 1k / hour to forfeit their roll on the staff, if it were to drop. That way you get a t-staff for way less than market value, they get paid whether or not they get lucky, all of you get experience, and everyone's happy. Hurray.

Actually, I find this bit o logic, acceptable.

[Knuckle]

Everything that is posted on these boards is about pixels. All the free time you spend playing games is about pixels. Using it as some kind of insult, is only showing how fucking retarded you are.

The game Everquest, as defined in the mind of mini-marc, is about pixels. Pixels to a red player is means to an end: pixels beget weapons to wage war upon your opponents.

This is why we chuckle in amusement at the massive walls of texts inspired by pixels, for the sake of pixels.

Marc don't worry bro, your head isn't properly in proportion to your deltoids, we expect these sort of responses from you, go do some squats and take a breather, then come back and tell us what you come up with.

[Massive Marc]

The game Everquest, as defined in the mind of mini-marc, is about pixels. Pixels to a red player is means to an end: pixels beget weapons to wage war upon your opponents.

This is why we chuckle in amusement at the massive walls of texts inspired by pixels, for the sake of pixels.

Marc don't worry bro, your head isn't properly in proportion to your deltoids, we expect these sort of responses from you, go do some squats and take a breather, then come back and tell us what you come up with.

Knuckle: The amount of confidence you have gained since your neckbearded friends have arrived is astonishing. You went from being a whinny little bitch begging for your name back to some weak-ass board warrior. Please keep posting basketball references with pictures comparing your skinny white ass with black athletes, I need more material to laugh at while I'm working.

[Foxx]

unless your name was Kaahbal.

lold

[hedbonker]

Pixels...

Guess what? This web site is made up of those...

[quido]

Calling gear pixels is retarded.

At least call it "bits" or something.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'd just like to say, if you had played on VZTZ, you almost always grouped with guildies, if you grouped with guildies, you were awarded the item if it was class specific or an upgrade for your class, if no one needed the item as an upgrade, you could roll on it. In PuG settings it was pretty much the same thing, I rarely if ever in my 3 year tenure saw the bluebie pixelitis kick in, unless your name was Kaahbal.

It's very sad how degenerate and malicious bluebies get towards pixels, and it's sad that they can't transfer this pixel aggression into a pvp setting, its like a snapping turtle that only comes out when something shiny is near.

VZTZ never had an economy. You're trying to claim some kind of moral high ground when the real fact is lack of resources.

[Salty]

Calling gear pixels is retarded.

At least call it "bits" or something.

blue pixel jelly

[Littlegyno]

Calling gear pixels is retarded.

At least call it "bits" or something.

It's pixels on the screen right?

What's your problem chump?

[Chanur]

Why do people always use bipolar as an excuse for someone acting like what they perceive to be a jerk? Please look up the DSM-IV criteria for bipolar disorder classification. Bipolar =/= Asshole. Thanks. :)

As for Shaere treating people poorly: I have always thought of Shaere as a military leader type. Someone who demands perfection. Does he have strong opinions? Yes. Is he demanding of the players in his group? yep. Is it such a bad thing that he thinks the person for whom a piece of loot is the biggest upgrade should get it? I don't think so.

TBH if i'm in a group and a piece of singing steel drops that I don't have and you make me random on it - I'm going to think you are the greediest prick in the universe. Especially if you say you are selling it to buy yourself some loot.

But maybe that's just because I too am an ex-tunarian and have the opinion that the item goes to whoever it is the biggest upgrade for first and if it isn't an upgrade for anyone or no one needs then you random. *shrug*

Take your lithium and mosey the fuck on.

[Salty]

Kaahbal be stealing your loots bros

[jilena]

I don't play for the pixels. I play to try and have better pixels than you. Obv.

[Sephrana]

Take your lithium and mosey the fuck on.

*applauds* You know a bipolar med name. nice googling. :)

[Littlegyno]

I used to beat up kids with bipolar. I think one of them killed himself.

PVP kill by proxy inrl.

[Juda]

give me my pixel back pixel back pixel back babbbbby pixel back ribs

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I posted here because I knew anything touching on NBG could easily drop into flame replies. I also knew what I posted was what I was thinking, and could be a rant.

And your replies amuse me Naez. If you truly meant what you said, you wouldn't even post.
One could argue if we truly 'need' money. Why pieces of paper mean so much. Because we have made them mean that much? We give it it's worth, it's importance. Just like in this game. We assign value and worth to items. That is why it matters. Because we make it so.

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

[Littlegyno]

I posted here because I knew anything touching on NBG could easily drop into flame replies. I also knew what I posted was what I was thinking, and could be a rant.

And your replies amuse me Naez. If you truly meant what you said, you wouldn't even post.
One could argue if we truly 'need' money. Why pieces of paper mean so much. Because we have made them mean that much? We give it it's worth, it's importance. Just like in this game. We assign value and worth to items. That is why it matters. Because we make it so.

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

Alert alert, known pussy located, alert alert.

[Littlegyno]

This board is like some sort of EQ nerd brain trust.

You have these dbags who try to post intellectual threads about some sort of media saturated story and except anybody to care.

This place rocks bros. I believe the redbros have found a home.

[Littlegyno]

except = expect

sorry yall

[Phallax]

Apologies should never be brought to the boards...period. If you want to apologize send the dude a tell..

All posting on these boards do is bring out the R&F drama scavengers and it makes you look like an attention whore.

[Chanur]

*applauds* You know a bipolar med name. nice googling. :)

Hey she does tricks too!

[xshayla701]

wtf

[funhorroryes]

bump