Sneaky Handoffs Continue at OOT: AC

[Theosupus]

I had suspicions that "the list" wasn't being honored by a select few that seem to out in OOT farming the AC often. My suspicions were confirmed this evening (see attached pics).

Faybrite/Hotsake of Bastion snuck in to the camp and threw tons of BS my way when I called her on it.

I was hidden behind camp watching what would happen.

Is there any way we can get jboots to be NON-MQable so others have a chance to do the quest?

[zati]

so... what did everyone have for dinner tonight? i ate tacos.

[mizzbiscuits]

I’ve also seen some of these people modifying the list however they want. The only way to legally keep your spot is to stay put at the camp and stay online. Remember that the list system is just a courtesy and doesn’t abide by traditional camp rules. People have been begging the GM’s to write specific rules for camps like this for years but it’s not gonna happen.

[Theosupus]

Yup as long as everyone knows. the bad part was Fangry and I WERE there at the camp. They did the hand off. She camp up parked fire pet he logged off.

[Theosupus]

HAHA and the lies continue. She says she was ahead of me on the list. When I'm not even on it. Just admit when you grab the camp from a friend and ignore the list folks. Like Mizzbiscuits said the list isn't enforceable anyhow.

[aaezil]

Didnt read however i can suggest seeking help!

[Jimjam]

Another thread to badly argue and misenterpret rules while making unsupported assertions *cracks fingers*

[TheSurgeon]

We should start a 24/7 OOT AC stream to start catching scumbags in the act.

[derpcake2]

if you pay me 15k i can get you a reserved spot on the list and a 3k / month return after that for 6 months

pm me

[Swish2]

It really is getting to the point where pvp would solve more and more of the bullshit that goes on here on the blue server.

People can be douchebags and there's only so much the volunteers can police the server and do things to bad people who are messing with camp lists, lawyering each other, etc etc.

[Triiz]

Why were you sitting with hide on hoping to catch them skipping you instead of just sitting there beside the person camping it and getting the camp when they were done?

[TheSurgeon]

Why were you sitting with hide on hoping to catch them skipping you instead of just sitting there beside the person camping it and getting the camp when they were done?

Irrelevant.

If what occurred is true, then the obvious thing to do is send a tell making one's way down the list to pass it along.

[Triiz]

Irrelevant.

If what occurred is true, then the obvious thing to do is send a tell making one's way down the list to pass it along.

Not even sure what that means, but lists don't mean anything if the person holding the camp doesn't want to honor it. OP went out of his way to make the person camping it think they could skip him without him noticing. The result is this thread.

[Zal22]

Awaiting a Jimjam response. Oh wait.

STFU

[loramin]

Remember that the list system is just a courtesy and doesn’t abide by traditional camp rules.

This is not true. A list is an agreement between players ("I will hand the camp over to you next once I get my item"). The staff has said many times that they will enforce player agreements.

... granted they generally say that in response to stuff like Scout, or trade scams in EC, but I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here.

[Jimjam]

It really is getting to the point where pvp would solve more and more of the bullshit that goes on here on the blue server.

People can be douchebags and there's only so much the volunteers can police the server and do things to bad people who are messing with camp lists, lawyering each other, etc etc.

New CSR process:

Resolve by discussion
Didn't work?
Resolve by /duel
Didn't work?
Resolve by deleting item and death touch.
Didn't work?
Ban hammer

[KENAK]

Just don't let Bastion people on your list. Problem solved.

[Champion_Standing]

MQs should have been disabled a long time ago.

[Bboboo]

who the fuck screen shots an auto biography worth of chat and expects people to read it.

moving to what the fuck man

[Ancient Cyclops]

Word is bond even anon behind a screen.

Always remember, never forget; you don't have to roleplay a sheisty douche to russell them jimmies (Hi Irulan)

~not an ancient cyclops

[Wonkie]

Another thread to badly argue and misenterpret rules while making unsupported assertions *cracks fingers*

lol

[Theosupus]

1. I was never on the list, Fangry was, and was sitting behind the camp. (the list is in the second, shorter, screenshot)
2. I was only there to help him because he didn't want to wreck his Ogre faction if boog popped.
3. I took this as an opportunity to see if the few people who are at the camp EVERY day were actually honoring "the list", or if the list was BS they used to keep the masses happy while they farmed MQ's. I found out it was the later.

My intent behind the post is two fold: 1. Call someone out on lies. 2. Let everyone else know the list will not be honored by the farmers.

[Mead]

didn't read but I'm always in support of a good name and shame

[a_gnome_collector]

The only way to legally keep your spot is to stay put at the camp and stay online. Remember that the list system is just a courtesy and doesn’t abide by traditional camp rules.

/Thread

I'd be surprised if anyone read that pic you posted.

[shuklak]

AC not up.

[Foxplay]

I have 6 Jboot's and have never paid for a MQ. All my Jboot's are from AC Island. I have never sat there and waited for my turn, ever.

My 2 copper. Get your name on the list and go about your life / gameplay. I always have them send me a tell on a different character (while my druid is camped out at AC island) Sometimes I don't get a tell back before I feel like logging off, and sometimes I do. Its that simple and avoids the toxic people, need to police others when you don't even have the authority to do anything about it, as well as doesn't waste my time doing nothing just waiting for the camp.

I'm a strong supporter of lists and people being good to one another and honoring the list. (Heck its how I have gotten all my char's Jboots *except my shaman who has black fur boots*) without ever paying a single plat. But obsessing over it and trying to police it? cant be healthy. Although if you catch someone for doing something shady and some punishment actually comes down because of it, kudos to you i guess?

[Hangerbaby]

On more than one occasion I have shown up at AC static completely uncamped and within minutes was swarmed with 5 tells from the same poopsockers I always see there saying "I didn't see you on the list" or "I have been here for hours"

Listen, pals, I'm not gonna lawyerquest with you. I know how to use /who and fact of the matter is if the PH is up and you aren't there, it is going to be my camp.

However, these neckbeards will do anything in their power to keep that camp in their rotation and will do whatever they can to get you banned

Wouldn't be surprised if OOT petitions went straight to spam at this point

[Lune]

https://i.imgur.com/Lvu9qs5.gif

[Lune]

It really is getting to the point where pvp would solve more and more of the bullshit that goes on here on the blue server.

People can be douchebags and there's only so much the volunteers can police the server and do things to bad people who are messing with camp lists, lawyering each other, etc etc.

There's a small problem solving benefit to pvp but it is far outweighed by the fact that:

- PvP is mostly intolerable in EQ. Yea you can fight for the AC camp but it also means Joe Casual is liable to get torn a new asshole by a deleveled ToV geared rogue while trying to camp pieces of their epic.
- On an basic level the PvP gameplay and meta in EQ is horrible and un-fun.

I played on Rallos Zek on live and while it had its fun moments that is not an experience I ever have the will to relive. Judging by the population of red I'm far from alone in that sentiment. And Red99 doesn't even have item loot; my most fun PvP experiences were jacking people's beloved items.

[LostCause]

i know the pop is low but if you toke everyone afk on blue and knocked them offline i bet it would be aleast 30-40% the population.

[mattydef]

i know the pop is low but if you toke everyone afk on blue and knocked them offline i bet it would be aleast 30-40% the population.

You don't honestly think 600-700 people are constantly afk on blue, do you?

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

It really is getting to the point where pvp would solve more and more of the bullshit that goes on here on the blue server...

...it also means Joe Casual is liable to get torn a new asshole by a deleveled ToV geared rogue while trying to camp pieces of their epic.
- On an basic level the PvP gameplay and meta in EQ is horrible and un-fun..

Swish, instead of always bringing up how the red style of play can solve blue's problems, can I hear some of your ideas of how, just like similar non-classic functions exist on blue as deemed necessary by the staff, what can be done on red through staff involvement to make it a more enjoyable, fair-minded atmosphere that may some day bring "life" back to the red population? Perhaps even do something, as mentioned by Lune here, to "even" out items such as TOV level gear on a CB bound rogue of say level 12 or so?

[Clazxiss]

Come to Red and put this AC camp insanity to bed. There are time the AC roams untouched for the entire time he's up.

[Tethler]

Come to Red and put this AC camp insanity to bed. There are time the AC roams untouched for the entire time he's up.

Sounds good. Can use my new boots to run to meet a non-existant group an all of the empty zones!

[Foxplay]

Sounds good. Can use my new boots to run to meet a non-existant group an all of the empty zones!

Isn't there at least some raid logging people on red that only camp in to kill raid spawns to ensure they can forever dominate by de lvling characters and destroying anyone who makes the mistake of rolling a toon on red?

[Swish2]

Swish, instead of always bringing up how the red style of play can solve blue's problems, can I hear some of your ideas of how, just like similar non-classic functions exist on blue as deemed necessary by the staff, what can be done on red through staff involvement to make it a more enjoyable, fair-minded atmosphere that may some day bring "life" back to the red population? Perhaps even do something, as mentioned by Lune here, to "even" out items such as TOV level gear on a CB bound rogue of say level 12 or so?

GM involvement/events would be the only way to inject more life into red. They were talking about hiring more volunteers for the project. Get 2 red only guides (or whose priority is the red community at least) to run events with newbie level rewards - things like see invis items or magic resist/HP gear. Doesn't have to be server changing.

Red still has potential. Most of the old guard have quit, you won't find the twinks you used to see in Unrest/MM causing problems for untwinked players.

It's all down to what the devs want to do at the end of the day. I'd say if they don't want to help it get off the ground to just wipe it and merge red characters into blue...I've been trying for a long time to get more people there but it needs more than blue server login issues to get us back up beyond 250 again.

With all that said, all the rule lawyering and forcing volunteers into sorting blue server camp disputes is embarrassing for a bunch of 30-something/40-something year old players.






https://i.imgur.com/J8bfqR5.png

[Zuranthium]

There's a small problem solving benefit to pvp but it is far outweighed by the fact that:

- PvP is mostly intolerable in EQ. Yea you can fight for the AC camp but it also means Joe Casual is liable to get torn a new asshole by a deleveled ToV geared rogue while trying to camp pieces of their epic.
- On an basic level the PvP gameplay and meta in EQ is horrible and un-fun.

I played on Rallos Zek on live and while it had its fun moments that is not an experience I ever have the will to relive. Judging by the population of red I'm far from alone in that sentiment. And Red99 doesn't even have item loot; my most fun PvP experiences were jacking people's beloved items.

EQ's mechanics need to be changed significantly, but PvP is still immensely better than the alternative of standing around doing nothing and having totally static content. With PvP the world at least feels alive again.

Twinking issues could and should be fixed, as there was nobody with this level of gear during the classic timeline, and those few people with top raid gear were certainly not deleveling their characters.

[Irulan]

Come to Red and put this AC camp insanity to bed. There are time the AC roams untouched for the entire time he's up.

Yep. I often oocd he was up to see the two druids online come for a showdown. Someone even gave me a free ring

[Irulan]

https://i.imgur.com/J8bfqR5.png[/img]

[Lojik]

Good work OP uncovering the shadiness going on at AC camp. I wouldn't spend my time doing what you did, but kudos to you. Doubt the staff is going to do anything, unless they claim it was a confirmed agreement and they'll enforce it?

If you're really intent on farming ac and suspect the person in front of you is in some sort of cabal, you're probably best just sitting next to them and claiming the camp when they log off. If you want to be transparent you can even tell them that you're taking the camp when they leave.

[Ghostly]

People act like the lists is set in stone. No one is obligated to hand anything off to you based on a list.

While you may feel its the right thing to do to follow the list, its not required.

[loramin]

People act like the lists is set in stone. No one is obligated to hand anything off to you based on a list.

While you may feel its the right thing to do to follow the list, its not required.

This is not true. A list is an agreement between players ("I will hand the camp over to you next once I get my item"). The staff has said many times that they will enforce player agreements.

... granted they generally say that in response to stuff like Scout, or trade scams in EC, but I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here.

[Lojik]

I agree with what you said Loramin. The problems I see:

1) You're trusting the people keeping the "list" to adhere to their word. It appears that many at AC camp are not.

2) If they break the list and you report it to the GM, what is the burden of proof like to prove that you were slighted?

3) Will all GM's concur that lists are enforceable player agreements?

4) Even if a GM concurs and you can demonstrate sufficiently that you were slighted, what are the chances that a GM will be bothered to care about a slight of this nature?

If you're ok with those problems, then continue putting your name on lists and go about your way. If you don't worry too much about it, I don't think you'll be negatively affected too much.

If you're like the OP though and you really want that AC camp, you do not have to agree to the list. Player agreements aren't enforceable if both parties don't agree. Unless there is a specific rule written that says a player made list for a camp now becomes a server wide binding agreement, which I think is highly doubtful.

[Mblake1981]

I think there is only a few times I can recall honoring lists like that on P99. I am from the opinion that if you want a camp and there is a line then your butt is sitting at the camp waiting on your turn.

Always had to wait while being there.

[aaezil]

The only person who has to honor the list (given that person and others on the list have ALL individually agreed to said list) is the current camp holder. That means if they log out and somebody else picks it up/whatever the list is thereby dissolved.

[mizzbiscuits]

Yeah I don’t think lists mean anything, unless they’ve updated the rules or I didn’t catch it.

[loramin]

I agree with what you said Loramin. The problems I see:

1) You're trusting the people keeping the "list" to adhere to their word. It appears that many at AC camp are not.

2) If they break the list and you report it to the GM, what is the burden of proof like to prove that you were slighted?

3) Will all GM's concur that lists are enforceable player agreements?

4) Even if a GM concurs and you can demonstrate sufficiently that you were slighted, what are the chances that a GM will be bothered to care about a slight of this nature?

As is often the case here, we don't really have rules except for the most basic stuff. Everything else is lawyerquest theory until a particular situation gets resolved by a particular GM.

I'm hopeful that if we (as a player community) can get the rules cleaned up and create a solid archive of GM rulings, we can remove a lot of the guesswork that players currently have to go through to follow the rules, without having to bother anyone on staff. Then, someday maybe we can convince the staff that they can still do their jobs just as easily if they change their absolute position of "never codifying rulings" to "let the players know the rules are ahead of time" ... or at least I can dream.

But for now laywerquest until proven wrong or right by an in-game encounter is the law of the land.

[Teppler]

Let’s say there’s a list and then the person at camp has a power outage for hours.

List is fucked.

Now let’s say the person owning the camp fakes a power outage to give camp to his friend 4th or 5th in line.

How would one police this?

[Muggens]

Who gives a shit about lists in a video game

[Madbad]

Who gives a shit about lists in a video game

[maskedmelon]

there is no list, only next.

[Heebs13]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1652719&postcount=9

The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

So why does this not apply to this guy?

[shuklak]

Lists were made to be broken.

[loramin]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1652719&postcount=9



So why does this not apply to this guy?

It absolutely does! Thanks for finding that, I've added it to the wiki's Rulings (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings) page.

Also, just to reinforce another point, I found a quote where the staff said it was ok to go AFK while waiting for a spawn. In fact, they said it was ok to go to sleep, and even encouraged doing so for one camp:

For the most part, a camp is yours as long as you have presence at that camp. If you die, go LD or leave the zone you can lose the camp if another player calls you on it. SF, AC, Lucan are no exceptions.

Staying awake for the duration of SF spawn is dumb and bad for your health, think about it.

[Heebs13]

It absolutely does! Thanks for finding that, I've added it to the wiki's Rulings (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings) page.

Also, just to reinforce another point, I found a quote where the staff said it was ok to go AFK while waiting for a spawn. In fact, they said it was ok to go to sleep, and even encouraged doing so for one camp:

When I camped SF I basically just parked my character there afk for a week. I was 4th in line when I showed up, I checked on my computer like once or twice a day til it was my turn, then I spent 2 hours at a time watching youtube waiting for him to spawn when it was my turn. All in all I think my character was at the spawn for an entire week, but I was only in front of the computer for less than 4 hours during that time.

Even had SF spawn once while I was still 2nd in line and I happened to see it. Stunned it, sent the camp holder a tell, waited a minute or two, he came back from afk and killed it. If he had remained unresponsive for like 5 minutes I would have considered the camp (and therefore the mob) mine since that likely would have meant he was asleep or something, but he came back quickly enough. If memory serves me right the entire time I was there, all the campers were very cooperative with each other because that camp can be such a pain otherwise. Why a lot of people can't show common decency with long spawns in this game is beyond me, but you reap what you sow. If the game sucks, it's because the community makes it that way.

[shuklak]

Disappointed....

I went to oot last night and did not receive a sneaky handy.

[Jauna]

Im drawing a blank, what is the "SF" spawn?

[Raghnar]

I solved that list nonsense when I used to camp it regularly. Whenever I got the camp I would only maintain the name of the person behind me on the previous list. If they wanted to honor some long list, they could, but I wasn't going to do it. That person would get a tell when I was engaging AC and that was it. No sitting and holding camp while they found a port to BB, etc. As soon as I looted ring I left. Not my problem if someone else showed up and assumed camp.

[Madbad]

Disappointed....

I went to oot last night and did not receive a sneaky handy.

you win

[mcoy]

Im drawing a blank, what is the "SF" spawn?

I think they're referencing https://wiki.project1999.com/Stormfeather but as I've never camped it I can't be certain.

-Mcoy

[Muggens]

I solved that list nonsense when I used to camp it regularly. Whenever I got the camp I would only maintain the name of the person behind me on the previous list. If they wanted to honor some long list, they could, but I wasn't going to do it. That person would get a tell when I was engaging AC and that was it. No sitting and holding camp while they found a port to BB, etc. As soon as I looted ring I left. Not my problem if someone else showed up and assumed camp.

this