Raid Scene - A RnF Repost

[Erati]

I figured this post should get some real discussion however no one has that rare Raid Discussion Forum access, sooo what better place than RnF to discuss things!



'Raid Scene' by Getsome
I believe the P99 raiding community needs to remove all the complicated raid rules, which are mostly reactionary rules to situations certain GM's decided to deal with. A significant portion of "current raid rules" are not even posted on the forums, as they were only communicated by GM's to perhaps 3-4 guild leaders after in-game incidents. This has always led to confusion to any up and coming guilds who may accidentally "break" an "unwritten rule". A significant portion of the rules are also antiquated agreements between raiding guilds. These agreements, while they worked for the guilds in question at the time, were rubber stamped as "P99 Raid Rules" for every other guild.

The GM's have historically involved themselves in raid disputes on this server beyond anything I have ever experienced in any other EQ server I have played on (quite a few). One particular issue I have had is GM's inserting themselves as enforcers of player made agreements, this is overbearing and overreaching and beyond the scope of what a GM should involve themselves in.

I have raided on Daybreak Games TLP servers and EQMac servers, while also raiding on P99 for the past 8-9 years. The open world raid scene on the TLP server sorts itself out, with the only major difference being the TLP servers have a raid window which attributes the most damage done on a fight to one raid for the purpose of loot. I have never interacted with a GM or needed to on the TLP servers while actively leading top open world and instance raiding guilds.

I suggest removing CSR from the P99 raid scene. CSR has plenty to do outside the raid scene and that is actually where the P99 server shines. All the non raid activities and leveling on P99 is much better than the TLP servers I have recently played on.

I have directly worked with the vast majority of the guilds on this server and during periods of past turmoil in the raid scene we were able to come to an agreement on how to coexist, without the need for GM involvement. Let the era of racing, two trackers, no coth, no exping in seb past entrance while going for Trakanon, be a thing of the past.

It is time to let the community decide on the fate of how the raid scene looks moving forward.

Thoughts?

[Oleris]

I didn't get to play during the no CSR period in VP, but I can't imagine how crazy TOV would be with no rules.

[Swish2]

This is from Getsome, the cleric who.. once he got his cleric epic from ezmode Ragefire demanded the window should be extended to once a week. (Yes I know this is going back years now)

Classic case of double standards from someone who wants the rules changed to their own benefit.

Turn on PvP in raid zones if you want "no CSR", don't half arse it with legal trains.

[beargryllz]

Full PVP

If you die on P99, you die in real life

Also, Arena is the only map allowed on P99

[getsome]

This is from Getsome, the cleric who.. once he got his cleric epic from ezmode Ragefire demanded the window should be extended to once a week. (Yes I know this is going back years now)

Classic case of double standards from someone who wants the rules changed to their own benefit.

Turn on PvP in raid zones if you want "no CSR", don't half arse it with legal trains.

I got mine from the First RF, not ezmode, and the current RF is not classic.

[Mead]

This is from Getsome, the cleric who.. once he got his cleric epic from ezmode Ragefire demanded the window should be extended to once a week. (Yes I know this is going back years now)

Classic case of double standards from someone who wants the rules changed to their own benefit.

Turn on PvP in raid zones if you want "no CSR", don't half arse it with legal trains.

You don't know much about Getsome then. He has obtained and aided in more epics than anyone I know across multiple servers. The last thing I would call him is self-interested or selfish.

[Swish2]

I got mine from the First RF, not ezmode, and the current RF is not classic.

You've had 8 years to put a bug report in, what stopped you?

[Erati]

Raid scene needs BDA reinstated with full access to ToV so they can catch up and be competitive

Cmon Chest, return to your homeland!

[Nexii]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else. Training will probably be less common if guilds can just camp on the damn bosses.

[America]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else.

[Erati]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else. Training will probably be less common if guilds can just camp on the damn bosses.

Well how do you define training?

Is it when you gather a whole slew of mobs around a priority target, pull out your priority target and when you deposit the remaining mobs somewhere else letting them disperse naturally until someone else is in the wrong place at the wrong time re-aggroing it all and chaining it back towards unsuspecting raid forces gathered?

or

Is it when you gather a whole slew of mobs around a priority target, lose complete aggro of everything just outside of a doorway but unaggro until someone zones in unknowing causing a re-aggro of everything that someone else had just brought to the door?

There are a lot of problems with saying "don't train" because training itself is never defined and looks completely different given a varying amount of circumstances that lead to the train. This is where P99 admins need to really think hard how they want their game played because there are alot of rabbit holes that can be opened with new rules if they are not clear.

[Raev]

I didn't get to play during the no CSR period in VP, but I can't imagine how crazy TOV would be with no rules.

It was pretty interesting. But the thing is, VP dragons only have 32K HP. So TMO could blow them as long as their counter-trainers could get them a minute or so in the clear. I don't see how anyone could ever kill Vulak if trains were legal. FFA TOV would almost certainly result in a rotation eventually.

Fundamentally, EQ is a PVE game. Guilds competing directly never really works. Both Sirken and Rogean tried to come up with good raid rules for direct competition and they both failed. The only form that works is time-based: during an earthquake, whichever guild mobilizes and kills fastest does the best.

[Wonkie]

it's time for a rotation

[Nexii]

Training would be where another guild was substantially hindered by your train. Such as killing part or all of another guild's raid force. Yea it's subjective, but typically it's really obvious. If it's not obvious then it's probably no foul.

Again though training would be much less an issue if raid mobs could just be fought on their spawn point. The tracker rule hasn't served its purpose to reduce socking. All priority targets are instant engaged regardless.

[Nexii]

It was pretty interesting. But the thing is, VP dragons only have 32K HP. So TMO could blow them as long as their counter-trainers could get them a minute or so in the clear. I don't see how anyone could ever kill Vulak if trains were legal. FFA TOV would almost certainly result in a rotation eventually.

Fundamentally, EQ is a PVE game. Guilds competing directly never really works. Both Sirken and Rogean tried to come up with good raid rules for direct competition and they both failed. The only form that works is time-based: during an earthquake, whichever guild mobilizes and kills fastest does the best.

Agree, in Velious you would have to hold off trains for ~10 minutes. VP dragons in constrast can be killed in 30 seconds. A guild's power would be measured by its willingness to grief other guilds...probably not condusive to a healthy raid scene...

[Erati]

Training would be where another guild was substantially hindered by your train. Such as killing part or all of another guild's raid force. Yea it's subjective, but typically it's really obvious. If it's not obvious then it's probably no foul.


Key words like this are the problem with Raid Scene rules. You add that in and suddenly every Guild Leader is arguing that whatever happens was not 'substantial' and certainly never intentional. I ve lost count how many times I was told by opposing Officer/Leaders that whatever infraction we were claiming was not significant enough because of a variety of observations they would have such as how many clerics logged in or whether we had a tank present.

Guild Leaders will take a mile if you give them an inch. We can't leave things up for interpretation is my main point here or we will suffer from the same mistakes.

[Pint]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else. Training will probably be less common if guilds can just camp on the damn bosses.

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

[America]

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

running a train during PnP is REALLY high risk =/ i hope u guys dont actually do that..

[Swish2]

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

I take it the PnP wouldn't cover raid zones if that's what people are suggesting.

[bspa0700]

I'd love to give my opinion, but we haven't gotten to a point that the community can trust that open, honest conversation about the rules of the server won't be met with a permaban.

[getsome]

You've had 8 years to put a bug report in, what stopped you?

I think the reason you called me out was because I did bug report it.

[aaezil]

detoxx response so scummy of course the zerg lord wants it to be the wild west of everquest lets see how many more warmbodies can fit into AM

[Nexii]

Why not just have everyone in one guild? What's the difference between that and splitting up the loot amongst many guilds?

[aaezil]

Why not just have everyone in one guild? What's the difference between that and splitting up the loot amongst many guilds?

Do not raid with autistic man-children thanks for offer though

[Vallaen]

If you dont raid why do you care about the raid scene?

[booter]

Bring back BDA and the rotation.

[mefdinkins]

Time to end the lawyerquesting and bring out the lobbyists!?!??!!?

Who has a stake in developing the raid rules? The server owners? The ones who spend the most time raiding?! The ones who never got a chance to raid!? The retirees who can speak objectively!??! The hardcore players who are putting in blood, sweat, and tears every week!?!?

Stay tuned!

[Rygar]

I don't raid, but if you want a more classic experience, forbid any kind of train up / train down in raid zones. It is abuse of eq mechanics to achieve an objective. It is also functioning too well with unclassic pathing and lack of proximity agro.

People burned out from crawling, big time commitment. Allowed other targets to stay up longer and spread windows.

A guild on classic live would not have farmed content for so long without conveyer belt zone line pulls.

And while coth ducking was classic, should be limits to how many coth mages can be parked. Not every guild could bury 15 in velious you know?

Increase the time commitment for pixels (classic) and the raid scene will go in waves. Members burn, leave, others take their place, said person returns after getting an itch, etc.

Without instant zone pulls euro / asian guilds also become more relevant in a crawl situation.

Force the crawl, end easy mode pixels. That shit is classic.

I do agree to no csr to some extent, it is evident in erati already arguing, "well, what really is defined as a train? " keep pnp in play, obvious fraps will be obvious. On live it was something like 2 warnings on an account then permanent account suspension. Forget 10 day vacations, with perma bans for foul play and guild forced disbands, players should resolve most agreements. Would favor bans via IP as well, share accounts at your own risk.

Welcome to the real classic experience!

In before waaaaaaaah i don't have the time for that!

[aaezil]

If you dont raid why do you care about the raid scene?

I do raid, and in a guild that has never been suspended or had officers banned for RMT! And will continue that way...

Maybe its the players that are broken and not the gms/rules? Go figure.

[Swish2]

which guild?

[Topgunben]

wipe blue. plz

twould allow the autists new life

[Rygar]

If you dont raid why do you care about the raid scene?

Because to me, the current raid scene is an injustice to classic eq. And I'm a big contributer of bug reports to make this box more classic.

[Lammy]

If I was in Aftermath I'd start blowing my DKP now

[Pyrrhica]

Remove all raid rules. Bosses respawn in 3 hours upon death. Knock yourselves out.

[arsenalpow]

Raid scene needs BDA reinstated with full access to ToV so they can catch up and be competitive

Cmon Chest, return to your homeland!

Nah.

[loramin]

it's time for a rotation

[Gimp]

I do raid, and in a guild that has never been suspended or had officers banned for RMT! And will continue that way...

Maybe its the players that are broken and not the gms/rules? Go figure.

The only thing that will ever "fix" P99 is rotated content, but it'll never happen. The current state of frothy neckbeards is too entrenched, much in thanks to our dearly departed ex-GM.

At one point, there was a ruleset that allowed smaller guilds a small chance at competing for big mobs, but that changed when a certain guild started making too much noise, so the rules changed to favor the two big dogs.

Sirkenquest was a real thing, and hopefully the community can find some way to fix the top-end raiding, but I think it's far, far too late for that.

[Topgunben]

a lot of you think that people like my self that are willing to devote 16+ hours a day for 20 straight days trying to get Mage epic are crazy.

People ask me how i do. "I just do it" i tell them. People ask me how im doing. I tell them this is the life i was meant for. this is my destiny.... my destiny. (camera pans over the landscape of empty pop bottles and cigarette butts)

[Rygar]

[QUOTE=Gimp;2815075]
At one point, there was a ruleset that allowed smaller guilds a small chance at competing for big mobs, but that changed when a certain guild started making too much noise, so the rules changed to favor the two big dogs./QUOTE]

To be fair, the ruleset you mention (I think it was the 30 minute lockout or something) was to allow smaller guilds more time to mobilize after getting FTE. However, this wasn't incentive enough for the smaller guilds.

For one, mariokart was dumbest thing ever. Sitting at a starting line waiting to run and tag a mob was the lamest thing about P99. No small guild really wanted that, they didn't get a 'rush' out of it, and it was more comical than anything.

Secondly, for the smaller guilds, 30 mins may seem an eternity to neckbeards, but these smaller guilds didn't have an army of pre-buffed 60s that were parked near targets in window. It was still too short a time.

Thirdly, in order to compete within the 30 min window, you needed to know how to train mobs up and down and bring that dragon in solo + have all your rag-tag scrub members know how the fight goes. You basically needed to log into a custom server to learn these pulls and study videos... it still takes a well oiled machine to down a dragon in 30 mins from FTE in ToV or even Kael.

So the only thing a small guild would really know how to do is clear to the mob, but there is no way 30 mins would allow for that, and they'd be 1-upped by the neckbeards.

The point is there is blame on both sides: apathy from the smaller guilds not wanting to put time into tracking / racing, but also a ruleset that was still stacked against them where experienced guilds had a stranglehold (which helped enforce the apathy).

[Legidias]

Just lemme mem up highsun real quick

[Shinko]

was standing on spawn better then COHing?


i personally think so

[deezy]

[QUOTE=Gimp;2815075]blahblahblah 30 minute lockout

it was an hour

[pogs4ever]

Modify leash distances.
Root the dragons.
Make them fly (aka move faster)
+/- 7 day variance (full random ~4 spawns a month and allow xp-ing in zones)
Fix bonus dozekars
Make them all tranix/Lodi fte tier rules.

[Twochain]

Bring back 15 minute lockouts

Once a month every top guild swaps officers and raid leaders for a cycle.

We all be friends yay

[Vianna]

Simple solution really.

2 weeks each month have a rotation of everything. First and 2nd weeks of each month. 2 weeks have full on competition for the mobs. 3rd and 4th week of each month. Hardcore players get their competition. Casual guilds get to see end game content but because of the large number of them pixels are still limited.

Implement the following rules.

1. If you choose to compete for mobs in week 3 and 4 you cannot be on the rotation in weeks 1 and 2.

2. If you choose to rotate mobs in weeks 1 and 2. You can't compete for mobs in weeks 3 and 4.

Outside of that have no rules. That way the competition for mobs in week 3 and 4 is really hardcore. This cuts down the involvement of staff outside of making sure the rotation is fairly handled.

[Tethler]

Simple solution really.

2 weeks each month have a rotation of everything. First and 2nd weeks of each month. 2 weeks have full on competition for the mobs. 3rd and 4th week of each month. Hardcore players get their competition. Casual guilds get to see end game content but because of the large number of them pixels are still limited.

Implement the following rules.

1. If you choose to compete for mobs in week 3 and 4 you cannot be on the rotation in weeks 1 and 2.

2. If you choose to rotate mobs in weeks 1 and 2. You can't compete for mobs in weeks 3 and 4.

Outside of that have no rules. That way the competition for mobs in week 3 and 4 is really hardcore. This cuts down the involvement of staff outside of making sure the rotation is fairly handled.

Lol, no. Terrible.

[Vianna]

Lol, no. Terrible.

Not at all. It is the best solution for a healthy server.

[Nexii]

GM enforced rotations are not a good idea. People will just park alts in the guilds that are rotating to avoid the restriction. So basically mains get deferred over alts.

[Swish2]

Not at all. It is the best solution for a healthy server.

The hardcores at the top don't want a healthy server, sadly.

[dcrag]

Can confirm, saw getsome on Coirnav and he did NOT ks me - true gentlesir

[dcrag]

I remember once, in classic, a GM zoned into sleepers tomb and very clearly stated the only thing they would ever intervene on would be exploitation of game mechanics. Can we do that?

[dcrag]

Actually now that I think about that was sullon zek, not the best idea.

[Vianna]

GM enforced rotations are not a good idea. People will just park alts in the guilds that are rotating to avoid the restriction. So basically mains get deferred over alts.

False. GM's can check pretty easily as to who owns characters. There has already been the type of rotation on this server before that I mentioned. It was called Class R. It took very little GM involvement except for them to have a page as to which class could currently kill the mob.

[Tethler]

Not at all. It is the best solution for a healthy server.

People only being able to go after targets 2 weeks every month? Yeah, that would never fly.

[Swish2]

I do enjoy the server's obsessions with "this should be changed" or "we should make this a rule"...

[dcrag]

Server needs no rules, wild west

[deezy]

It was called Class R.

class r didn't work

[Vianna]

People only being able to go after targets 2 weeks every month? Yeah, that would never fly.

It would be the perfect balance for everyone and cause less work for server staff in general in policing it. I don't care how selfish people are. That is a discussion for another thread.

[Vianna]

class r didn't work

It worked for over a year. But this is nothing like that anyway. That was just an example.

[Endonde]

class r didn't work

Wut? Class R worked pretty well in terms of allowing the masses to experience content.

The class system had its issues but it was far better than the current system. It gave casuals realistic chances to kill dragons, while saving neckbeards from their greed by removing a third of the windows they had to cover.

You cant fully fix the raid scene on p99 anymore it's just gone too far, but the class system is a decent attempt at creating a solution for two very different playstyles.

[Phenyo]

I'm incredibly thankful the people in this thread have no ability to change the raid climate

[evilkorn]

False. GM's can check pretty easily as to who owns characters. There has already been the type of rotation on this server before that I mentioned. It was called Class R. It took very little GM involvement except for them to have a page as to which class could currently kill the mob.

But people still double dipped between classes with alts in different guilds. They even swapped around for FFA's depending on fte. That was with (former) staff approval. I'm sure it wasn't a large scale problem but it did happen.

[Nitsude]

Class C, Class R, and FFA system wasn't a great system for Kunark due to content drought, but it might be worth a revisit for Velious.

It would be a big undertaking. A lot more content to rotate at varying difficulty levels. Smaller guilds taking spots on the Class R rotation and then helping each other with their kills would have to be addressed.

I doubt it would ever be done again, but it was probably the best attempt at allowing the most people to enjoy raid content.

[kotton05]

If it’s Wild West id def come back to end all raiding during normal hours in ToV

[Linksfather]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

[aaezil]

Rotation wouldnt kill the server it would only slightly inconvenience the 100-200 unemployed/losers who have very high RA (kill dragons at 4 am instead of sleeping/working) in top guilds... Every other person would benefit though.

[Nitsude]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

The Class system did allow competition on every 2 out of 3 raid mob spawns.

[Jimjam]

But people still double dipped between classes with alts in different guilds. They even swapped around for FFA's depending on fte. That was with (former) staff approval. I'm sure it wasn't a large scale problem but it did happen.

To be honest I prefer character by character association with guilds, rather than players belonging to guilds.

[Tenderizer]

Raid scene needs BDA reinstated with full access to ToV so they can catch up and be competitive

Cmon Chest, return to your homeland!

rofl, +1

[kotton05]

To be honest I prefer character by character association with guilds, rather than players belonging to guilds.

All your accounts are belong to us

[fan D]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

how the fuck is the competitive raiding scene fun to you? what on gods green earth makes staring at a wall for an item that won't help you or your guild kill any more difficult monsters fun for you

[Lammy]

I'm with Fan D. I have no idea how some of you have raided here consistently for so long.

[rezzie]

how the fuck is the competitive raiding scene fun to you? what on gods green earth makes staring at a wall for an item that won't help you or your guild kill any more difficult monsters fun for you

Personally, because it is less about the challenge of killing the dragon and more about the challenge of beating another guild to it.

You're no longer competing against the content the original developers put in 20 years ago, you're now competing against modern players with 20 years of optimized tactics derived from an almost complete understanding of game mechanics, with strategies that are still being tuned on a weekly basis.

It's also what makes live pulls so fun, and why FTE lockouts effectively remove the last remaining challenges at the high end.

[Pint]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

5000 mana? youre a monster!

[fan D]

Personally, because it is less about the challenge of killing the dragon and more about the challenge of beating another guild to it.

You're no longer competing against the content the original developers put in 20 years ago, you're now competing against modern players with 20 years of optimized tactics derived from an almost complete understanding of game mechanics, with strategies that are still being tuned on a weekly basis.

It's also what makes live pulls so fun, and why FTE lockouts effectively remove the last remaining challenges at the high end.

ive heard this argument from close friends even. what about the 16 hour variance that you have to deal with until the fun? is it worth it

[Bbeta]

how the fuck is the competitive raiding scene fun to you? what on gods green earth makes staring at a wall for an item that won't help you or your guild kill any more difficult monsters fun for you

Dude you're one to speak, you tracked Inny for 100+ hours straight. Lost your Earth staff then lost your mind and jumped ship to red to join a zerg and slowly and painfully wait your turn for loot and then ran around seb griefing people in seb to make yourself feel good. Take a good look into a mirror bud

[loramin]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

See, some of us came to play EverQuest, and nothing whatsoever about a rotation would interfere with that. On the contrary, for the vast majority of players on the server, it would result in getting to play more parts of EverQuest that they've rarely or never gotten to see.

There's no wrong way to play a game, but if you really want "competition" I don't think racing for dragons on a 20-year old emulated server is where you belong. I hear there's like 999,999 other games out there with better ways to compete designed into them.

[fan D]

yes that is why im still mad, ty for pointing that out

it took a few months to realize blue raiding was not fun, playing on red with 40 people is still so much more fun than blue.

ty for remembering my inny track, feels good <3 . you got a few details mixed up but your overal message is correct

[Linksfather]

See, some of us came to play EverQuest, and nothing whatsoever about a rotation would interfere with that. On the contrary, for the vast majority of players on the server, it would result in getting to play more parts of EverQuest that they've rarely or never gotten to see.

There's no wrong way to play a game, but if you really want "competition" I don't think racing for dragons on a 20-year old emulated server is where you belong. I hear there's like 999,999 other games out there with better ways to compete designed into them.

But..but...but.. I like Everquest....

And yes, what Rezzie said, its about beating the other guild.. not the dragon. The dragon is the gravy.

[arsenalpow]

I’ll GM alongside Cucs. We can fix it.

[Vianna]

A rotation would kill the server.... Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists. Here in AM..(Before Tempest was immune to being suspended) it became very boring. After 30 days was up, we got excited to finally have something to fight for.

Like always... IMO

No it wouldn't. TMO raided uncontested for so long and it kept going fine. There will always be people with characters willing to kill Dragons. Besides you still would have 2 weeks of your competition if you want it. With the rules your guild leader is asking for. So make a compromise to get those rules.

[kotton05]

But..but...but.. I like Everquest....

And yes, what Rezzie said, its about beating the other guild.. not the dragon. The dragon is the gravy.

I got you your epic to spite moosejaw

[Vianna]

I got you your epic to spite moosejaw

It was funny how quick we got Ogee's mage his as well just to give that guy the middle finger.

[aaezil]

“Competition is why most high end guilds exist”

Would be so much better here without you, though, for the majority of people. There should be an autistic/no life server and a regular member of society/has a family server.

[Wonkie]

very few participate meaningfully in the "competition", the rest vacantly repeat the lie for loot expedience

[icedwards]

I’ll GM alongside Cucs. We can fix it.

I'm ok with this. All in favour?

[MaCtastic]

Just make all the raid zones PvP while the big targets are spawned. Should make things interesting.

[rezzie]

ive heard this argument from close friends even. what about the 16 hour variance that you have to deal with until the fun? is it worth it

Well typically there tends to be 15-30 mobs in window simultaneously, and mobs don't all usually spawn within the last minute of their window.

Sure, there are occasional lulls where you're just standing around waiting for something to happen, but we aren't standing there in silence staring at a wall: we have guild chat, a lively Discord/TeamSpeak, and a DJ channel to have a laugh between the chaos.

[Baylan295]

Well typically there tends to be 15-30 mobs in window simultaneously, and mobs don't all usually spawn within the last minute of their window.

Sure, there are occasional lulls where you're just standing around waiting for something to happen, but we aren't standing there in silence staring at a wall: we have guild chat, a lively Discord/TeamSpeak, and a DJ channel to have a laugh between the chaos.

This is all a lie. AM eats babies to make Vulak spawn.

Srsly, there are guilds thay compete and go for top end mobs that refuse to sock like that. I’m in one of them. We compete on our terms and in our windows and don’t ever sit for a 16 hour window. If someone doesn’t want that experience, there are plenty of guilds available for them, including some in the middle ground between a leveling guild and AM/TP.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Personally, because it is less about the challenge of killing the dragon and more about the challenge of beating another guild to it.

And therein lies the problem with the playerbase of this server... at any given time, there's 1000 normal, considerate people online who are playing to experience content, and about 100-200 sociopaths who derive their fun from going to extreme lengths to deprive others of that content.

[Raev]

See, some of us came to play EverQuest, and nothing whatsoever about a rotation would interfere with that. There's no wrong way to play a game, but if you really want "competition" I don't think racing for dragons on a 20-year old emulated server is where you belong. I hear there's like 999,999 other games out there with better ways to compete designed into them.

I agree with a lot of this, but having played on TAKP . . . rotations get boring pretty quickly. You can make the argument that this good, of course. I still think the best long term solution for P99 is something competitive that doesn't revolve around tracking & socking, which no one really likes.

1-2 quakes a week + no normal respawns + must kill all indoor mobs on spawn point seems like a reasonable start.

[Oleris]

• Change 7 days spawns to 5 days spawns.
• Change 3 day spawns to 2 day spawns.
• Make TOV + KT/Statue/AOW FFA
• Rotate everything else between FFA and top tier guilds
• Give a 2-3 hour after spawn before it becomes FFA
• Guarantee 2+ quakes a month and make every mob that spawns FFA

This will get the high-end guilds the same if not more raid mobs. It will make the windows not static for those that can't raid on a certain day for weeks in a row. It will also help gear smaller guilds and learn how to compete between their own tier and skip windows if they don't want to compete against the top dogs. It allows those small guilds to try and compete in TOV when they think they are ready.

Not Classic? Yes, but it will help everyone out. I don't know how to deal with petition quest, demands for platinum to avoid a petition and other issues. There will always be competition and those that are going to want what's best for their guild.

[Oleris]

Oh, and I would also do something with sleepers tomb. The open raid targets there are, the more the casual guilds will also get.

[Raev]

Oleris you are missing the point.

competition good; tracking/poopsocking/24-hour zerg guilds bad

Any real fix of the raid scene has to address this. R/C/FFA did not, and that's why it failed.

[Oleris]

Oleris you are missing the point.

competition good; tracking/poopsocking/24-hour zerg guilds bad

Any real fix of the raid scene has to address this. R/C/FFA did not, and that's why it failed.

Too many casual guilds mouth to feed as the line grew bigger.

I wouldn't rotate the mobs between the casual guilds, but force them to compete with each other or make agreements between the stronger guilds.

They could also stop spawning 7 day targets and make them spawn all at once with a quake every 1-7 days to help the casual guilds.

[kjs86z]

Let's just remove the key requirements for VP and ST.

[fan D]

Just make all the raid zones PvP while the big targets are spawned. Should make things interesting.

this is what the red server is, except every zone is PvP enabled. You have competition blocking you cross SG and WW.

and yes, battling 20 v 20 for ToV mobs is still 1000x more fun than project1999 blue

[kotton05]

Red is dead dude plus you suck log off

[Bbeta]

yes that is why im still mad, ty for pointing that out

it took a few months to realize blue raiding was not fun, playing on red with 40 people is still so much more fun than blue.

ty for remembering my inny track, feels good <3 . you got a few details mixed up but your overal message is correct


I'll never forget it. You cannot remember everyday but moments that impress or amaze you remember

[Raev]

Too many casual guilds mouth to feed as the line grew bigger.

I wouldn't rotate the mobs between the casual guilds, but force them to compete with each other or make agreements between the stronger guilds.

They could also stop spawning 7 day targets and make them spawn all at once with a quake every 1-7 days to help the casual guilds.

Oleris you are missing the point.

competition good; tracking/poopsocking/24-hour zerg guilds bad

Any real fix of the raid scene has to address this. R/C/FFA did not, and that's why it failed.

[fan D]

I'll never forget it. You cannot remember everyday but moments that impress or amaze you remember

it wasnt 100 hours straight on one Inny, but every Inny for about 3months. And for the longest time the 16hour window would open up at like 1am. So i'd do 1am until 1pm noon, then pass it off to some Euro cuck who assured me they would take care of it or hand it off properly. The euro cuck would do about 22 minutes and then log off and tell no one. So my whole time would be wasted. OR - i'd sock from 1am to 8am, it would spawn and i would get 11 people to log on. 11 people answering the bat phone for 11 hours of tracking. One time this event happened, and we got Inny to about 9% and wiped. then IB finished it off with 30 people and got an earth staff. That was about it for me

btw i got an earth staff on red summer this year and finished the mage epic, i wiped my hd and i cant fin'd a SS to show you. am trying to find one of my lil gnome EPIC"D out

[Hyjalx]

I know this will get lost in the scuffle, but the staff shouldn't have to watch every fraps video or feel the need to get intimate with guild leaders.

I know his time has come and gone, but Uthgaard probably would have said something like this over a random dispute in ToV:



"You guys got 20 minutes to figure something out or your both suspended a month."



And it worked. Guilds worked things out. I don't remember Uthgaard suspending a single guild for a month either (if my memory serves me right). The community respected Uthgaard's handle on the raid scene, and you were best to keep him as far away as possible. If he showed up, it likely wasn't good for any party.


I'm not saying we need an Uthgaard, but we need someone who knows what the hell is going on, that doesn't mess around, or mingle within the community.


Force guilds to work together, watch their own fraps videos, do their own skype chats, and decide their own fate.


The staff shouldn't have to be troubled with this anymore.

[fan D]

I'll never forget it. You cannot remember everyday but moments that impress or amaze you remember

btw, thank you for the beautiful sentiment. your post is brilliant and you made my day. ty for the wonderful words <3

[Erati]

Competition is why most high end raid guilds exists.

:rolleyes:

[icedwards]

:rolleyes:

[Fifield]

too lazy to find if someone posted the no CSR in ToV. training allowed button

[aaezil]

GMs should only respond to petitions from players who donated just sayin' none of you are customers

[Rang]

Any external rule system imposed by GMs will be lawyerquested to death. Raid scene should be ruled through player made agreements. Problem is that requires people with limited social skills with having to somewhat peacefully interact.

[Legidias]

Make raid rules 0 tolerance. You fuck up, say goodbye to account. Make the monk pullers paranoid about training other people to the point where they have to police themselves.

[Fifield]

Make raid rules 0 tolerance. You fuck up, say goodbye to account. Make the monk pullers paranoid about training other people to the point where they have to police themselves.

99% of the trains are not intentional on all raiding guilds currently

with your logic, if someone was to lose their internet connection while pulling, and they are stuck somewhere they shouldn't. you want them banned?

[Wonkie]

99% of the trains are not intentional on all raiding guilds currently

with your logic, if someone was to lose their internet connection while pulling, and they are stuck somewhere they shouldn't. you want them banned?

Any external rule system imposed by GMs will be lawyerquested to death

[Legidias]

Yes. You should be fucking nervous to pull big trains. If youre in a position where if you pull huge raid train and you going LD would fuck over another team, that means you're already pulling right up to them in the first place.

[Cecily]

99% of the trains are not intentional on all raiding guilds currently

with your logic, if someone was to lose their internet connection while pulling, and they are stuck somewhere they shouldn't. you want them banned?

Multiple members of the CSR team have reviewed this issue and have agreed on the aforementioned ruling. Please remember that it is not ok to kite and stall raid mobs when other guilds are present and actively contesting those raid mobs.

[Matalus]

We should have a class system, has that ever been tried? Bet it would work wonders

[YendorLootmonkey]

Raid disputes to be resolved by allowing each guild to spawn into The Arena a team of 6 champions comprised of all female level 20 warriors, one each from the human, barbarian, wood elf, high elf, half elf, and dark elf races, equipped with nothing but leather whips.

Charge 500pp admission to watch.

Last team standing wins the dispute for their guild.

Losing team's guild gets transferred to Red for a week.

Solves raid disputes, gets plat out of the economy, incredibly sexist and offensive, and helps population on Red.

[Jimjam]

enable /guild war

[kaev]

Raid disputes to be resolved by allowing each guild to spawn into The Arena a team of 6 champions comprised of all female level 20 warriors, one each from the human, barbarian, wood elf, high elf, half elf, and dark elf races, equipped with nothing but leather whips.

Charge 500pp admission to watch.

Last team standing wins the dispute for their guild.

Losing team's guild gets transferred to Red for a week.

Solves raid disputes, gets plat out of the economy, incredibly sexist and offensive, and helps population on Red.

i'll second this proposal, sounds well reasoned and rational. although, we might want to banish both guilds to red for a month regardless the outcome.

[aaezil]

I mean if the rnf society who mostly don't even play p99 can't fix the raid scene, who can?

[beargryllz]

enable /guild war

:)

[Mblake1981]

Raid disputes to be resolved by allowing each guild to spawn into The Arena a team of 6 champions comprised of all female level 20 warriors, one each from the human, barbarian, wood elf, high elf, half elf, and dark elf races, equipped with nothing but leather whips.

Charge 500pp admission to watch.

Last team standing wins the dispute for their guild.

Losing team's guild gets transferred to Red for a week.

Solves raid disputes, gets plat out of the economy, incredibly sexist and offensive, and helps population on Red.

I will support this.

[JayDee]

All the rules make this server not classic and causes the staff to go mad in the process. Ofcourse they cannot answer your petition to recover items or create a guild or grant IP exemptions. They're too busy rifling through raid guild petitions and fraps. Only so much time in the day and those are considered more pressing matters

[Mblake1981]

No irony, srs

Also,
Root dragons and leap frog/train like a pack of noobs.
Fix soulfires and reapers. You wanna raid? go raid with your force, sitting at a zone in is beyond mind numbing alongside TS/Discord chat about said soulfires, clerics not logged in yet for pops, scoldings about not having soulfires, talks about DKP bonus for getting them.

I'd rather get blasted with a firehose by a group of country boy cops than hear this stuff in my Sennheisers.

https://i.imgur.com/etF0PYZ.jpg

[Mblake1981]

Disputes that make it to /petition will be resolved per Yendors suggestion, not joking. This gives skin in the game and a spectacle for the players not involved. Side economy of plat/item betting with odds on who will win.

Being EXILED to red for a week means something to these folks, pixels are worthless in that wasteland.

[America]

if you use a required!!! voice chat to raid eq, your the bad kind of gay

[Mblake81]

if you use a required!!! voice chat to raid eq, your the bad kind of gay

"Whos got a DA idol for me? Where is my DA IDOL! WHERE IS MY DA IDOL OMG!" X10000000

https://i.imgur.com/CTdVlca.gif

[booter]

Any external rule system imposed by GMs will be lawyerquested to death

That's why you just do a server mandated rotation, and the tiny yet loud minority of pixel addicts will just have to deal with it

[Detoxx]

“Competition is why most high end guilds exist”

Would be so much better here without you, though, for the majority of people. There should be an autistic/no life server and a regular member of society/has a family server.

Every person in Aftermath and Tempest could quit tomorrow and it would be the next 2 guilds up doing the same exact thing. Denying this is retardation and complete ignorance.

[Imago]

Merge major raid zones on Red and Blue (ToV, VP, Kael, SS, Icewell, Seb, etc) and enable PVP.

Put those pixels to work.

[booter]

Every person in Aftermath and Tempest could quit tomorrow and it would be the next 2 guilds up doing the same exact thing. Denying this is retardation and complete ignorance.

This is just false. All of the people that are willing to put in the craziest hours of wall staring are in Tempest/AW because those are the guilds that match their play style.

[matticas]

“Competition is why most high end guilds exist”

Would be so much better here without you, though, for the majority of people. There should be an autistic/no life server and a regular member of society/has a family server.

nah, someone would fill the void. High end guilds will always be around, which is convenient, because it means you'll always have someone to pointlessly whine about.

[Senix]

Because to me, the current raid scene is an injustice to classic eq. And I'm a big contributer of bug reports to make this box more classic.

Here's where you are wrong on your first post. Crawling was classic cause people didn't know any better. Training up and training down passed one another and tagging is just smart. Most of the things we know now you would consider "not classic". I never carried around midnight mallets, root nets, reapers on live. People just really dissect and learned the game and it's mechanics a lot better 20 years down the road.

[Dolalin]

Velious should get the enhancements it got in Luclin imo. Vulak ring, Ancient spells, rooted dragons, etc.

Root the dragons, make people grind trash for 6 hours for them. Casual guilds will do this, casually. Raid guilds (heavy consumers) will burn out. It's natural.

[Swish2]

People just really dissect and learned the game and it's mechanics a lot better 20 years down the road.

It's the sad truth. I think I did one Vindi raid ever back in classic era Velious before Luclin was released - a lot of people weren't as hardcore as today.

[aaezil]

Every person in Aftermath and Tempest could quit tomorrow and it would be the next 2 guilds up doing the same exact thing. Denying this is retardation and complete ignorance.

I know you are too autistic to realize it - but there are active guilds here that have no interest in socking 30+ mobs 16 hour windows 24/7

Shocker i know. Wake up idiot.

[aaezil]

Not to mention you’re missing the point - nobody would care if you and the other 200 unemployed/pizza delivery guys who can play eq all day quit because there is a rotation or other common sense ways to have a healthy raid scene. EQ to the extent its done here by the top guilds is mental illness - not a vidya game.

[Brocode]

Not to mention you’re missing the point - nobody would care if you and the other 200 unemployed/pizza delivery guys who can play eq all day quit because there is a rotation or other common sense ways to have a healthy raid scene. EQ to the extent its done here by the top guilds is mental illness - not a vidya game.

From all your posts, seems like your unhappy with all the randomness, competition, variation. That said why are you still here if there are plenty of live servers without those problems so you can love happy ever after with your instanced and no variation spawns? Go schedule your raid and win all pixels and be happy.

Raid Scene will always have the top 2 competing over it, there must be rules so the game can be played, may you like it or not, even if theres no CSR involved. Compared to all raiding experiements that have been made on p99, the way we have it been the most fair so far.

You wanna win loot? Compete
You want to beat your rival? Compete
You wanna dominate a cycle? Compete
You want PvP? Go back to red pill, this is the blue pill, choose again.

And no you dont need to be hardcore to be at Tempest or Aftermath, neither you need to like each member to kill mobs and feel good about it. You will get loot after Kelza if in Tempest and in AM you might get some anytime.

And if you remove the competition of a game, whats the fun in playing it? So how about NFL rotate winners, bet its gonna be so much fun....

[Swish2]

I know you are too autistic to realize it - but there are active guilds here that have no interest in socking 30+ mobs 16 hour windows 24/7

Shocker i know. Wake up idiot.

Which guild are you in? I asked before but you didn't reply.

[Cecily]

Not to mention you’re missing the point - nobody would care if you and the other 200 unemployed/pizza delivery guys who can play eq all day quit because there is a rotation or other common sense ways to have a healthy raid scene. EQ to the extent its done here by the top guilds is mental illness - not a vidya game.

[YendorLootmonkey]

From all your posts, seems like your unhappy with all the randomness, competition, variation. That said why are you still here if there are plenty of live servers without those problems so you can love happy ever after with your instanced and no variation spawns? Go schedule your raid and win all pixels and be happy.

Raid Scene will always have the top 2 competing over it, there must be rules so the game can be played, may you like it or not, even if theres no CSR involved. Compared to all raiding experiements that have been made on p99, the way we have it been the most fair so far.

You wanna win loot? Compete
You want to beat your rival? Compete
You wanna dominate a cycle? Compete
You want PvP? Go back to red pill, this is the blue pill, choose again.

And no you dont need to be hardcore to be at Tempest or Aftermath, neither you need to like each member to kill mobs and feel good about it. You will get loot after Kelza if in Tempest and in AM you might get some anytime.

And if you remove the competition of a game, whats the fun in playing it? So how about NFL rotate winners, bet its gonna be so much fun....

Yeah, except raiding on P99 is a high school American football league with two NFL teams inexplicably included, beating their chests after every 226-point victory, wondering why no one else wants to "compete" with them.

[Brocode]

Yeah, except raiding on P99 is a high school American football league with two NFL teams inexplicably included, beating their chests after every 226-point victory, wondering why no one else wants to "compete" with them.

my point exactly they can, and sometimes they do compete, people just dont want to, but they are free to do so

[Pint]

We did have a rotation at one point, 3 casual guilds banded together and destroyed it for more pixels.

[YendorLootmonkey]

my point exactly they can, and sometimes they do compete, people just dont want to, but they are free to do so

My point is a subset of about 50 sociopaths and maybe 100 followers (the guild names may change, but it's essentially the same group of people) who have the time and resources to "compete" at the "NFL" level are sitting there asking, as you just did, why the other "high school football teams" wirhout that level of time and resources don't "compete" at their insane level.

The barrier of entry is too high for people not willing to commit an unhealthy portion of their lives to raiding. The only "competing" going on is who can devote more of their time within a 50-ft radius of their computer waiting for a batphone. Don't make "competing" out to be more than it really is.

If you really wanted competition, you'd be on Red duking it out for pixels.

[Lammy]

Imagine if there was a guild of 50 people with less than 40% body fat who all liked each other and genuinely had fun raiding EQ content the way it was intended.

[Sloshed]

I know you are too autistic to realize it - but there are active guilds here that have no interest in socking 30+ mobs 16 hour windows 24/7

Shocker i know. Wake up idiot.

Yet their members will farm and farm and farm to buy droppables off raid mobs that keep recharges going for top tier raid guilds. Not much difference in time spent if you ask me.

[Baylan295]

Yet their members will farm and farm and farm to buy droppables off raid mobs that keep recharges going for top tier raid guilds. Not much difference in time spent if you ask me.

Sure there is. You don’t have to be available for a 16 hour window, can set your own schedule, and don’t need to get yelled at if you screw up. You just get s Rez.

[Eukaryotik]

See, some of us came to play EverQuest, and nothing whatsoever about a rotation would interfere with that. On the contrary, for the vast majority of players on the server, it would result in getting to play more parts of EverQuest that they've rarely or never gotten to see.

There's no wrong way to play a game, but if you really want "competition" I don't think racing for dragons on a 20-year old emulated server is where you belong. I hear there's like 999,999 other games out there with better ways to compete designed into them.

Just instance the raid zones then. No more petitions outside of self inflicted nerd rage.

The only difference between instancing and a rotation is the rate at which pixels are obtained, and does that really matter on a content locked server?

[booter]

From all your posts, seems like your unhappy with all the randomness, competition, variation. That said why are you still here if there are plenty of live servers without those problems so you can love happy ever after with your instanced and no variation spawns? Go schedule your raid and win all pixels and be happy.

Raid Scene will always have the top 2 competing over it, there must be rules so the game can be played, may you like it or not, even if theres no CSR involved. Compared to all raiding experiements that have been made on p99, the way we have it been the most fair so far.

You wanna win loot? Compete
You want to beat your rival? Compete
You wanna dominate a cycle? Compete
You want PvP? Go back to red pill, this is the blue pill, choose again.

And no you dont need to be hardcore to be at Tempest or Aftermath, neither you need to like each member to kill mobs and feel good about it. You will get loot after Kelza if in Tempest and in AM you might get some anytime.

And if you remove the competition of a game, whats the fun in playing it? So how about NFL rotate winners, bet its gonna be so much fun....

This is what raid sickness/pixel lust looks like. Be aware.

[kaev]

This is what raid sickness/pixel lust looks like. Be aware.

I'm pretty sure the correct technical jargon is "Pixel Sickness: a self-inflicted mental illness".

[GinnasP99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldK51rSucvI

[derpcake2]

Banning everyone is the correct solution.

You'll hit a 90% douchebag playerbase, the remaining 10% is an acceptable sacrifice for the greater good.

Repeat this process after 1 month for anyone over level 40, but don't tell anyone in advance.

3 months later, ban everyone with 3 or more pieces of raid gear.

It would work out.

[kotton05]

I think this calls for an open ToV raid

[loramin]

Just instance the raid zones then. No more petitions outside of self inflicted nerd rage.

The only difference between instancing and a rotation is the rate at which pixels are obtained, and does that really matter on a content locked server?

LOL what? There's no difference between instancing and rotations? How about the fact that instancing would be 110% not classic, and would require a massive dev effort, whereas rotations were 100% classic (on some servers) and require zero new dev effort?

[Artaenc]

Oh god, stop this "rotation" talk already, it's making me barf.

<Asgard> will not be participating in any kind of rotation what so ever. We are pretty weak now but we now have a very strong core coming up. We are simply not doing this for a "rotation". I'd rather nail my fingers to the table than do rotations again. The major problem here is that there is many people that play like robots and have been collected into the bigger guilds because pixels madness gets the best of them. That makes it hard for smaller guilds to grow but very possible. I am very open to raiding with other smaller guilds though except for the ones that's stepped on our faces while we were down. Those guilds have the same mentality as the guilds with hundreds of raiders that run over targets in seconds except they have smaller numbers.

[Nexii]

Imagine if there was a guild of 50 people with less than 40% body fat who all liked each other and genuinely had fun raiding EQ content the way it was intended.

There once was...

[Erati]

LOL what? There's no difference between instancing and rotations? How about the fact that instancing would be 110% not classic, and would require a massive dev effort, whereas rotations were 100% classic (on some servers) and require zero new dev effort?

Loramin is our forum Lorax and he is devoted to speaking for the Devs.

Anytime a poster suggests something that will create work for any Developer on this project, the Loramax will appear in the thread and shout "Think of the Devs!".

:)

[Wonkie]

Oh god, stop this "rotation" talk already, it's making me barf.



how can raids succeed without any dps monks?

[loramin]

Loramin is our forum Lorax and he is devoted to speaking for the Devs.

Anytime a poster suggests something that will create work for any Developer on this project, the Loramax will appear in the thread and shout "Think of the Devs!".

:)

https://i.imgur.com/qu07AM5.jpg

Although I'm not sure our problem is a lack of caring ...

And for the record, while I think everyone here should be more appreciative of the entire P99 team (not just devs), because they are literally volunteering their time to let everyone here have nostalgia-tinged fun, that really wasn't my point. My point was just a practical one: any solution that requires the devs to write new code simply isn't going to happen unless it's an extremely small thing (eg. the FTE messages).

Remember, Velious took 7 years, and we're still waiting to see how long Chardok 2.0 will take. Clearly the devs are working at that limit, so I just think it's naive for anyone to expect them to drop that work (and make Chardok 2.0 take even longer) just to try out some idea a player had for the raid scene ... an idea which has absolutely no guarantee of succeeding whatsoever.

[loramin]

*that limit = their limit

[Cecily]

Loramin is our forum Lorax and he is devoted to speaking for the Devs.

Anytime a poster suggests something that will create work for any Developer on this project, the Loramax will appear in the thread and shout "Think of the Devs!".

:)

Are you a programmer? Cause the Lorax is a programmer. Pro grammar too.

[Irulan]

Peeing a little bit in this thread to let you all know ive been here.

[Frug]

Are you a programmer? Cause the Lorax is a programmer. Pro grammar too.

I am, though I have no dog in the fight.

What gives ME the eye roll here is the constant autist cry of "not classic!" but only when it refers to things people don't like.

[booter]

Really easy for the staff to just make a forum post that says raid content is now rotated. Sign up for slots here.

No headaches, except for the people with pixel withdrawal.

[Gilder]

P99 is inherently flawed and there is no perfect system, nor will there ever be.

Not sure why the raid question even gets brought up anymore.

[Legday]

P99 is inherently flawed and there is no perfect system, nor will there ever be.

Not sure why the raid question even gets brought up anymore.

A CSR got fired so now a bunch of nerds came out of the woodwork to discuss how it makes perfect sense to overhaul a combination of the programming and rule set of the server. Pretty simple, really.

[Artaenc]

A CSR got fired so now a bunch of nerds came out of the woodwork to discuss how it makes perfect sense to overhaul a combination of the programming and rule set of the server to advance their agenda. Pretty simple, really.made a slight adjustment.

[Vianna]

A CSR got fired so now a bunch of nerds came out of the woodwork to discuss how it makes perfect sense to overhaul a combination of the programming and rule set of the server. Pretty simple, really.

I think Getsome was the one that started it in the Raid Forum.

[bigjeff100]

Oh god, stop this "rotation" talk already, it's making me barf.

<Asgard> will not be participating in any kind of rotation what so ever. We are pretty weak now but we now have a very strong core coming up. We are simply not doing this for a "rotation". I'd rather nail my fingers to the table than do rotations again. The major problem here is that there is many people that play like robots and have been collected into the bigger guilds because pixels madness gets the best of them. That makes it hard for smaller guilds to grow but very possible. I am very open to raiding with other smaller guilds though except for the ones that's stepped on our faces while we were down. Those guilds have the same mentality as the guilds with hundreds of raiders that run over targets in seconds except they have smaller numbers.

Hail Artaenc!!!! So glad to be part of the Asgard family!!!! Hail Asgard!

[YendorLootmonkey]

made a slight adjustment.

I thought it was to loosen up the current neckbeard agenda.

[bigjeff100]

Yeah, except raiding on P99 is a high school American football league with two NFL teams inexplicably included, beating their chests after every 226-point victory, wondering why no one else wants to "compete" with them.

Was in Chardok with a group for basically the first time ever.. Was awesome.. We setup camp at some little corner spot that had a buncha "slaves". We had to kill them cause they were messing with enchanter, but they all had shovels!! I looted one. I thought of you.... :)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Was in Chardok with a group for basically the first time ever.. Was awesome.. We setup camp at some little corner spot that had a buncha "slaves". We had to kill them cause they were messing with enchanter, but they all had shovels!! I looted one. I thought of you.... :)

Hahaha... mine is the one from Lake Rathe. On Live in Velious I got bid up by my guildmates who knew I was going to blow all my DKP on Shovel of the Harvest. Worth it!

[aaezil]

Could I join AM, be casual, open my mouth and have a silver spoon of pixels force fed into my mouth while i just sit afk/ logged out until someone else plays the competition game (fte/pulls/batphone)... Sure. But that sounds boring as hell. That sounds WORSE than rotation/instanced content to me. Could i be a competitive member of AM/Tempest? Sure... this game is more about game knowledge and time investment than skill. Anyone can do it. I just have a job/life and can't be on call 24/7 for elf pixels.

I might as well continue in a casual guild filled with friends and actually be a part of learning the fights, competing when we have time (with healthy boundaries for things like jobs/wives).
Currently only able to play that way seeing a small % of the content in the game (AM is still 24 hour socking CLASSIC raid mobs? really guys??) because A) I don't wont to be a cog in a dumb zerg guild and B) I'm locked out of the other content because i'm not up at 4 am in tov with 200 people logged out ready to pounce.

Current system is a joke, being defended by sickos (the "hardcore" people who want to compete by un-classically pulling dragons sometime in their unclassic 16 hour dragon windows [seeing who can track mobs 24/7 all day and night isn't being good or winning a competition, it's being mentally ill] ). Current status quo is also being defended by the warm bodies who see other guilds getting a chance at content a threat to their free pixels.

If there's not a change in the raid scene on this server then the majority of people in the top guilds [not the sickos] will continue to be do-nothing warm bodies happily content with being spoon-fed 20 year old content, smaller guilds with real lives will continue to be locked out of most of velious content. Could i go play another server if i don't like it here? Sure, point me to a server that is classic everquest/velious and has healthy raiding... I'm not sure one exists yet.

[bigjeff100]

Hahaha... mine is the one from Lake Rathe. On Live in Velious I got bid up by my guildmates who knew I was going to blow all my DKP on Shovel of the Harvest. Worth it!

Haha so dope... Had to wiki that shovel. Haha let me ask you this.. Does it summon single foods, or a stack?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shovel_of_the_Harvest

[Origins]

Could I join AM, be casual, open my mouth and have a silver spoon of pixels force fed into my mouth while i just sit afk/ logged out until someone else plays the competition game (fte/pulls/batphone)... Sure.


Voting no

[radda]

Lawl

[YendorLootmonkey]

Haha so dope... Had to wiki that shovel. Haha let me ask you this.. Does it summon single foods, or a stack?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shovel_of_the_Harvest

I can't remember, that was 17 years ago... it would be however the mage summon food spell works. Hit like a truck, though.

[bigjeff100]

Oh its that strange black bread stuff!!!

[Mblake1981]

Could I join AM, be casual, open my mouth and have a silver spoon of pixels force fed into my mouth while i just sit afk/ logged out until someone else plays the competition game (fte/pulls/batphone)... Sure. But that sounds boring as hell. That sounds WORSE than rotation/instanced content to me. Could i be a competitive member of AM/Tempest? Sure... this game is more about game knowledge and time investment than skill. Anyone can do it. I just have a job/life and can't be on call 24/7 for elf pixels.

Nothing they do here is worse than instanced content, rotations are on the same side of that fence but not as far out.

fte/pulls/batphone: The only people having fun at the raid are the pull team. The rest of us are sitting behind a fire pot, listening to babel we have no part in, listening to bs about trains and the other guild getting trained/arguing about said trains/getting the pull. The resulting shitstorm of crying over TS/Dis about who fucked who and what should be done about it.. "DO THEY CONCEDE? WELL, DO THEY? OMG WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY HAVE FRAPS" ...to hell with a lame batphone. I am playing the game or I am doing something else.

You can emulate a 20 year old game but it only goes so far. Perhaps NTOV trash mobs should be tweaked a little but a crawl would at least be more engaging for the player. How many of you have actually been in NTOV with your character if you are not part of the pull team, I don't mean the zone in.

[Mblake1981]

I rant about classic shit a lot myself. There were no fraps, teamspeaks or discords in era.

In game chat or ICQ, if you had it set up an your computer could run the game and another program.

These days I can kick back at a boring camp and load up some shit on youtube to pass the time, something also that wasn't there in era. It was amazement enough just being in Norrath, being 18, looking at what kids were messing with on consoles with no internet connection, feeling L33T af.

[Mistle]

Could i go play another server if i don't like it here? Sure, point me to a server that is classic everquest/velious and has healthy raiding... I'm not sure one exists yet.

Why limit yourself to Velious?

Velious sucks. If you want to raid, get yourself to a PoP emu. Forget about this trash. Some of you have been drinking the kool-ade so long you've forgotten how bad this game at Velious really is. Focus items. AA. Actual character progression. Raids with mechanics. These things actually existed in EQ. Whatever this is, you have to be seriously deluded to think this is good.

But yeah p99 has the biggest population. Guess what? That's part of the problem. In 2000 having 1200 people on a server was okay. In 2018 it's grossly overpopulated. EQ can't handle it. It's handled here by the dumbest set of raiding rules possible pushed by the dumbest guild leaders possible.

Get out there man. There's still fun EQ to be had, but p99 isn't it.

[Immok]

1-2 quakes a week + no normal respawns + must kill all indoor mobs on spawn point seems like a reasonable start.

[Byel]

Why limit yourself to Velious?

Velious sucks. If you want to raid, get yourself to a PoP emu. Forget about this trash. Some of you have been drinking the kool-ade so long you've forgotten how bad this game at Velious really is. Focus items. AA. Actual character progression. Raids with mechanics. These things actually existed in EQ. Whatever this is, you have to be seriously deluded to think this is good.

But yeah p99 has the biggest population. Guess what? That's part of the problem. In 2000 having 1200 people on a server was okay. In 2018 it's grossly overpopulated. EQ can't handle it. It's handled here by the dumbest set of raiding rules possible pushed by the dumbest guild leaders possible.

Get out there man. There's still fun EQ to be had, but p99 isn't it.

Suggestion? I've always liked the expansions up to planes, but everywhere I've looked was basically you had to box to play. Might as well go to official and have mercs then.

[Artaenc]

I thought it was to loosen up the current neckbeard agenda.
It does appear that way at first glance but if you look far ahead into the future it's definitely not going to be the case.

[YendorLootmonkey]

It does appear that way at first glance but if you look far ahead into the future it's definitely not going to be the case.

Get me some lottery numbers with that crystal ball of yours.

[Champion_Standing]

You guys are the biggest group of babies I've ever seen in a video game. Honestly, you need constant hand holding, special rule sets, etc etc so you can farm gear on a rickety ass 20 year old elf Sim. You've done everything you can to avoid the mechanics that set EQ apart from modern games. Why don't you just go play wow so you can get instanced raid zones and be done with it?

[kotton05]

End game should have no CSR at all. It’s clean it’s simple it’s cruel. It’s perfect.

[Wonkie]

End game should have no CSR at all. It’s clean it’s simple it’s cruel. It’s perfect.

I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature

[kaev]

You guys are the biggest group of babies I've ever seen in a video game. Honestly, you need constant hand holding, special rule sets, etc etc so you can farm gear on a rickety ass 20 year old elf Sim. You've done everything you can to avoid the mechanics that set EQ apart from modern games. Why don't you just go play wow so you can get instanced raid zones and be done with it?

Once again taking on your aspect raising high the attribute of ambiguity. Only the best among us can simultaneously hit the bullseye and miss the target, and none better than you when you're on your game. I salute you.

[kaev]

End game should have no CSR at all. It’s clean it’s simple it’s cruel. It’s perfect.

randomized teams (i.e. guilds), lifetime ban for crossteaming, and i'd be down

double posting ftl

[Ravager]

End game should have no CSR at all. It’s clean it’s simple it’s cruel. It’s perfect.
One megazerg guild, no competition, and stand in line with your DKPs for the rot scraps behind the 20 or so nerds that can't walk away from this game for a single day for a decade. Let history repeat itself. Sounds great.

[kaev]

One megazerg guild, no competition, and stand in line with your DKPs for the rot scraps behind the 20 or so nerds that can't walk away from this game for a single day for a decade. Let history repeat itself. Sounds great.

Don't be bothering these people with the truth, man, they can't handle the truth.

[Swish2]

One megazerg guild, no competition...

Basically what BDA wanted wasn't it?

[Ravager]

That's irrelevant. The irony is that it's the opposite of what they claim to want. Good job making this thread about BDA again, you psycho.

[Swish2]

Good job getting mad because BDA got mentioned (again). They're the best example of trying to recruit half the server, uncomfortable truth isn't it?

Why do you hate your guild's history? It's okay to be a BDA member.

[YendorLootmonkey]

This is now a BDA thread. What's the latest sportsball scores/standings?

[d3r14k]

As a Chiefs fan, currently mourning Kareem Hunt because he had to hit his girlfriend. Got cut from the team earlier this week. Sad panda.

[Ravager]

Good job getting mad because BDA got mentioned (again). They're the best example of trying to recruit half the server, uncomfortable truth isn't it?

Why do you hate your guild's history? It's okay to be a BDA member.
You are the only person who ever mentions BDA (again and again). And it only ever seems to happen when I post. What is your obsession with me and my old guild? I'm willing to bet you'd be quoting every post I've written about the raid scene if I've done it from another account and you didn't know it was me. Our views on raiding here aren't that different. You're just being a dick.

[Swish2]

You are the only person who ever mentions BDA (again and again). And it only ever seems to happen when I post. What is your obsession with me and my old guild? I'm willing to bet you'd be quoting every post I've written about the raid scene if I've done it from another account and you didn't know it was me. Our views on raiding here aren't that different. You're just being a dick.

You mention me mentioning them every time it happens - what are you, the BDA police?

Make sure to log this one with the others. You're the obsessed one it's quite clear. Nobody can mention BDA without salty ole Ravager sticking his head around the corner. Sorry your zerg guild was griefed off the server for being inept at FTE in Velious. 1000+ pages of a thread can't bury that :o

[Wonkie]

could you two just fuck already

swish is the bottom ��

[d3r14k]

swish is the bottom ��

I agree. Ravager must ravage, after all.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Sorry your zerg guild was griefed off the server for being inept at FTE in Velious.

Nonsense, I am still here flying the BDA flag. I'm a one-man raid force.

I have a little trouble with raid targets that death touch, though. And anything above level 45.

We're like herpes... you can't get rid of us.

[Ravager]

Nobody can mention BDA without salty ole Ravager sticking his head around the corner. Sorry your zerg guild was griefed off the server for being inept at FTE in Velious. 1000+ pages of a thread can't bury that :o
You're the one who keeps posting about it. Who's salty? Swish3 is due any day now. The meltdowns that get you forum banned usually happen when you start going on your BDA rants.

[Valakut]

I figured this post should get some real discussion however no one has that rare Raid Discussion Forum access, sooo what better place than RnF to discuss things!




Thoughts?

Getsome had a chance to be the change he wanted to see in the raiding scene when <Rustle> was formed but it turned out to be a hoax. Originally <Rustle> was about changing the raid scene until it turned into a TMO/IB pixel circle jerk where they were committing the same acts they previously shamed other guilds for committing.

The same shit Getsome is trying to say in Raid Discussion is the same shit I was saying on the <Rustle> forums and I was banned and kicked for it.

So if TLP was a better raiding experience I suggest going back over there while the krono market is still alive.

[deezy]

u mad?

[Mead]

u mad?

he mad

[Wonkie]

rotation is coming :-)

[Kluwen2]

rotation is coming :-)

There's just no way someone currently on the staff will agree to manage that shit show. Bring back FTE locks!

[Legday]

There's just no way someone currently on the staff will agree to manage that shit show. Bring back FTE locks!

bRiNg BacK fTE LOcKs!

[Fifield]

both of you shaddup, live pulls forever

[Legday]

both of you shaddup, live pulls forever

I was just mocking Kluwen - I'm team live pulls forever.

[Rewzer]

#rootthedragons. Add the vulak ring event. Raid scene fixed.

[Erati]

both of you shaddup, live pulls forever

Live pulls w no leashing = Fun.

Live pulls w leashing = retardedly dumb and full of sabotagey pitfalls

Big difference and if leashing is here to say easy to see locks would be a better overall solution. Way too much fuckery is possible with leashing involved.

[loramin]

rotation is coming :-)

https://i.imgur.com/Iw2DqTI.gif?noredirect

[Legday]

Live pulls w no leashing = Fun.

Live pulls w leashing = retardedly dumb and full of sabotagey pitfalls

Big difference and if leashing is here to say easy to see locks would be a better overall solution. Way too much fuckery is possible with leashing involved.

Yes agreed. No leashing and binding in ToV was when it was it the best.

[Goodest]

Remove all raid rules. Bosses respawn in 3 hours upon death. Knock yourselves out.

72 hour repop's for it... kings and quest mobs in wtov will always be up at night. work them like vindi 1 drop from the loot table.

AoW would be really fun then.

[Goodest]

3-8 hour re-pop's for it... kings and quest mobs in wtov will always be up at night. Work them like vindi 1 drop from the loot table.

AoW would be really fun then.

[Proudpixel]

Please please please just perma root nameds in ToV.

[Fifield]

Live pulls w no leashing = Fun.

Live pulls w leashing = retardedly dumb and full of sabotagey pitfalls

Big difference and if leashing is here to say easy to see locks would be a better overall solution. Way too much fuckery is possible with leashing involved.

I really enjoyed the no leashing too, was crazy watching wizards kite 5-6 tov dragons for vulak fight.

[Kluwen2]

Live pulls w no leashing = Fun.

Live pulls w leashing = retardedly dumb and full of sabotagey pitfalls

Big difference and if leashing is here to say easy to see locks would be a better overall solution. Way too much fuckery is possible with leashing involved.

This is a very good point. Eratani you should consider submitting a guide application!

[booter]

There's just no way someone currently on the staff will agree to manage that shit show. Bring back FTE locks!

There would be almost nothing to manage after the initial set up. Everyone gets a slot. If you take another guild's mob during their rotation, you get punished.

[booter]

No concedes, no FTE, no training other guilds etc

I can't imagine a solution that would be EASIER on the staff

[YendorLootmonkey]

There would be almost nothing to manage after the initial set up. Everyone gets a slot. If you take another guild's mob during their rotation, you get punished.

What's your plan to stop alts forming other guilds to water down the rotation because that's how a sociopathic subset on this server rolls?

[Wonkie]

What's your plan to stop alts forming other guilds to water down the rotation because that's how a sociopathic subset on this server rolls?

https://youtu.be/eZIVQ79mJ9I

[kaev]

What's your plan to stop alts forming other guilds to water down the rotation because that's how a sociopathic subset on this server rolls?

Always with the negative waves Moriarty. It's a beautiful plan, a magnificent plan, it's gonna be amazing!

[JayDee]

There would be almost nothing to manage after the initial set up. Everyone gets a slot. If you take another guild's mob during their rotation, you get punished.

EBT card welfare section 8 housing. You want it all on a silver platter.

[Lammy]

1 Hour Footrace & FTE lockouts were the best. This promoted healthy competition, healthier lifestyles, skills and an opportunity for several guilds to raid the way they enjoyed raiding.

If raid mobs had similar windows it would provide an opportunity for some lower tier targets that higher tier guilds didn't want to chance getting locked out on.

Wanted the challenge of a low numbers kill? You could do it.

Wanted to log in your talentless zerg of guild members who dislike each other? You could still do it.

[kotton05]

Naw man just suspend Capi cuz 2 powerful

[Daloon]

Change nothing. Stop being pusssiee.

[Artaenc]

Please please please just perma root nameds in ToV.

I thought they had it permanently rooted on live after a while, I'll have to dig around.

[Wonkie]

a return to the Class system from Kunark

rotation confirmed

[Vasarious]

Always with the negative waves Moriarty. It's a beautiful plan, a magnificent plan, it's gonna be amazing!

Most underrated comment I've seen here ever. Big Joe and Kelly approve.

[Mblake1981]

There would be almost nothing to manage after the initial set up. Everyone gets a slot. If you take another guild's mob during their rotation, you get punished.

No concedes, no FTE, no training other guilds etc

I can't imagine a solution that would be EASIER on the staff

EBT card welfare section 8 housing. You want it all on a silver platter.

Change nothing. Stop being pusssiee.

Drow and Wood elf naked female warriors going at it with Barbed leather Whips (https://wiki.project1999.com/Barbed_Leather_Whip) per Yendors suggestion.

[Mblake1981]

Code of Honor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a49K-uzKMZQ)

[aaezil]

Change nothing. Stop being pusssiee.

Either am fte sicko or just shows up for free pixels.

[Ravager]

Either am fte sicko or just shows up for free pixels.
Anyway you slice it, somebody's getting free pixels. Doubly so on a free server.

[Cecily]

Anyway you slice it, somebody's getting free pixels. Doubly so on a free server.

Yeah and they don’t even pay any money.

[Ravager]

What's your plan to stop alts forming other guilds to water down the rotation because that's how a sociopathic subset on this server rolls?
It wouldn't be too hard to lock out individuals from raiding outside their slots, even on alts and friends accounts. GUI's are like fingerprints and that little DLL can just ID you from your INI's. That's a bit of extra coding on the front end, but if it saves time of policing these chuckleheads on the backend, it's probably time worth spent.

[d3r14k]

It wouldn't be too hard to lock out individuals from raiding outside their slots, even on alts and friends accounts. GUI's are like fingerprints and that little DLL can just ID you from your INI's. That's a bit of extra coding on the front end, but if it saves time of policing these chuckleheads on the backend, it's probably time worth spent.

That sounds like more work for staff though o.O

[Ravager]

That sounds like more work for staff though o.O
Not in the long run. It's a set it and forget it kinda thing. How many man hours did they put into settling the raid disputes over the course of a decade?

[loramin]

That sounds like more work for staff though o.O

Well everything makes more work for the staff though, even just keeping the status quo.

The real question is which is more work: implementing some way to limit people to a single raid window, not limiting them and letting people raid in multiple windows with alts, or having to personally manage things like they do now.

[shuklak]

They should set up tournaments and winners get first pick etc, sort of like a weekly draft for who gets the fte.

[Tethler]

Make every raid mob spawn a scout roll.

[FatherSioux]

Let the free market reign supreme.

[kaev]

Let the free market reign supreme.

Ain't no such thing as a free market. Never been, never will be. But, that said... auctioning off raid mobs is so utterly TMO that it would fit in perfectly with the history here.

[Bardp1999]

Make it so you have to be on the combat log to loot a raid mob and watch the tears roll

[Foxplay]

Make every raid mob spawn a scout roll.

A month or two later an officer of a guild is kicked for loosing vulak roll too many times in a row ;p

[mattmanbass]

Why not just make all the bosses have ph's with very rare chance to spawn, then once you kill boss you have to give up the camp to next guild. What you think? Maybe? Retarded idea? Hard to foresee all the consequences of something like that

[aaezil]

Make every mob repop 1-16 or 1-24 hours after being killed. Would give everyone a chance to raid all content/would be hard to monopolize everything like it currently is.