Server policing expectations

[wtsgoodtime]

Hi there,

Background:
I used to play EQ back in 1999/2000 and quit shortly after Luclin was released. I've recently started playing on p99 with my friends who have been here for many years. I've been playing way too much and am lvl 47 in a few weeks.

Question:
I've noticed it is easy for people to start yelling about camps and spawns being contested. My friend was recently suspended without warning or explanation and we think it was due to someone complaining about taking their pulls. The pulls in question were probably pulled about the same time (within a second?) and were not part of a camp. They were also green to the petitioner and don't drop any special loot. If anything, this sounds like the petitioner is violating not disrupting normal playability of the zone for those of us who get XP.

We invest a lot of time in our characters in this game. Do we want GMs suspending/banning people without talking about it? This is only going to lead to people petitioning all the time for anything as a CYA technique. I want fair and honest discussion getting to the root of the issue before action is taken. You may not care until it happens to you.

Thoughts?


(Was previously posted in "Server chat" and the initial thought was that there were ragey /tells that caused suspension, but how can you know when there is no explanation?)

[Argh]

It comes down to this: who did your friend call a cunt?

[wtsgoodtime]

I don't think anyone. I may only have 1 side of the story, but that would be highly uncharacteristic of him.

[skarlorn]

let me give you some advice

1) post the names of the offending parties

2) post screenshots, or edited logs if you don't have them

[Dreenk317]

It's just kind of how the server works. Is it fair/right? No, but is is what it is. You will get yelled at and threatened with petitions. Yet if you yell at and threaten that person with the same petitions, for the same reasons. They will have an argument for how it's not against the rules when they do it. But only when you do it.

For instance, every time I kite Lodi, even if I'm actually engaged and actively casting trying to land slow or root or w/e. I receive a million tells about how I'm stalling and it's against the rules and I need to concede. Yet if I tell someone else they can't kite Lodi and are stalling, they are quick to point out that Lodi is not a raid mob and therefore it's a grey area and therefore they can stall. (Often these are the same people that have told me kiting (for any amount of time) is against the rules.


Welcome to p99 and it's wonderful world of hypocrisy, I really do hope you have a good time.

[wtsgoodtime]

That is good advice... I suppose you have to take screenshots of any altercation and petition them before they petition you. However, I thought as a relative server-newbie that GMs would realize that not everyone who calls the police is in the right.

Next time we'll make sure to get that evidence.

Can we take the discussion not to my and my friend's case specifically, but to server policing in general?

Do we want GMs to slow down and take their time addressing issues so that they can get them right? Or do we prefer hasty and potentially inaccurate suspensions/bannings? I know I'd prefer the former.

If all of your efforts can go down the drain from some (tiny) misunderstanding, it isn't worth playing in the same way. It would still be worth playing without attachment to the characters, but it isn't quite the same, ya know?

[rictus204]

"yeah we took his spawns, but they don't give him exp or any special loot, so we deserve them more.. he is the bad guy here!!!"

maybe try red during the suspension, i hear its a real good time over there.

[wtsgoodtime]

It's just kind of how the server works. Is it fair/right? No, but is is what it is. You will get yelled at and threatened with petitions. Yet if you yell at and threaten that person with the same petitions, for the same reasons. They will have an argument for how it's not against the rules when they do it. But only when you do it.

For instance, every time I kite Lodi, even if I'm actually engaged and actively casting trying to land slow or root or w/e. I receive a million tells about how I'm stalling and it's against the rules and I need to concede. Yet if I tell someone else they can't kite Lodi and are stalling, they are quick to point out that Lodi is not a raid mob and therefore it's a grey area and therefore they can stall. (Often these are the same people that have told me kiting (for any amount of time) is against the rules.


Welcome to p99 and it's wonderful world of hypocrisy, I really do hope you have a good time.

This makes me sad. :(

[Dreenk317]

I will say that you should read the server rules if you haven't. As it clearly states that I can be a level 60 with capped exp and I can run around killing lvl 5 mobs for as long as I want and you couldn't touch them. I engage them first, they are mine.

[wtsgoodtime]

"yeah we took his spawns, but they don't give him exp or any special loot, so we deserve them more.. he is the bad guy here!!!"

maybe try red during the suspension, i hear its a real good time over there.

In this case, we were there first, and I don't think you can actually claim these as a camp, so it may not be relevant. It is a side point that these spawns did not gain him anything (or so little it makes no sense to fight these).

I'd like to make the distinction from spawns and pulls, where pulls are mobs you have actually tagged.

The main point was there can be times when 2 people tag the same at the same time, and there should be no hasty suspension for that. Rather, investigation and talking to players should be first. Is that a poor expectation?

[wtsgoodtime]

I will say that you should read the server rules if you haven't. As it clearly states that I can be a level 60 with capped exp and I can run around killing lvl 5 mobs for as long as I want and you couldn't touch them. I engage them first, they are mine.

I get that... perhaps I should not have made that point. The main point is that mobs were tagged at the same time and he was disciplined for someone raging at him.

[wtsgoodtime]

Sounds like you stole a female streamers mobs and internet white knight Justice was served

(sorry you got waylayed)

I don't know... I don't think this person had any special favor with GMs... but just complained formally and he had no recourse to explain the situation.

[rictus204]

anytime i've been part of a camp dispute the guide listened to what both parties had to say. i also haven't seen a suspension drop right there on the spot, the guide usually tells somebody to take a hike.

[wtsgoodtime]

anytime i've been part of a camp dispute the guide listened to what both parties had to say. i also haven't seen a suspension drop right there on the spot, the guide usually tells somebody to take a hike.

That sounds how it should be.

[Baler]

Play Nice Policy for camps dictates that if players are unable to settle quarrels between themselves, then the staff step in.

Sounds like your 'friends' couldn't be the bigger person and decided to argue/fight with the other player,. even if the other player was is the wrong.

For future use: https://obsproject.com/
;)

[Baler]

Ban me all I do is call people childish names and repeat a catch line no one thinks is funny.
:)

[wtsgoodtime]

Play Nice Policy for camps dictates that if players are unable to settle quarrels between themselves, then the staff step in.

Sounds like your 'friends' couldn't be the bigger person and decided to argue/fight with the other player,. even if the other player was is the wrong.

For future use: https://obsproject.com/
;)

Totally... we could just say sorry and walk away... but that really empowers people who want to disrupt your play to do so, which I think is the opposite of what is intended by the server rules.

[wtsgoodtime]

Play Nice Policy for camps dictates that if players are unable to settle quarrels between themselves, then the staff step in.

Sounds like your 'friends' couldn't be the bigger person and decided to argue/fight with the other player,. even if the other player was is the wrong.

For future use: https://obsproject.com/
;)

Hey! I already have that setup for SC2 ... I should start recording just in case.

Thanks!

[Baler]

Totally... we could just say sorry and walk away... but that really empowers people who want to disrupt your play to do so, which I think is the opposite of what is intended by the server rules.

That's true but these incidents are generally seldom and blown up under a magnifying glass. Also the server is 10x better than it use to be. This is a private server so on occasion things will slip through the cracks. But people who repeatedly act like jerks will have it catch up to them in the end. Being civil and taking an L today could lead to unlimited possibilities tomorrow.

Of course don't let people walk all over you but politely inform the 'infringing' player that you've been there and are camping said mobs with the ability to keep them down. If that other person want's to continue 'stealing' from your current camp or begins to verbally attack you pop in a polite well worded petition including the offending players name.

If you don't feel conformable doing this make sure your logs are on, take screenshots and video if possible. Submit this information on the forums petition section. The staff know who the trouble makers are and they don't let them hang around for too long. It's likely if the offending party is a jerk to you than they're likely a jerk to other people and are creating a negative environment on the server.

TL: DR - play nice policy.
ps. I had my posts reversed, the one in server chat was meant for RnF and visa-versa.
Never post about petitioned incidents in RnF only talk about them with staff or the people involved.

[Quizlop]

What camp was it?

[branamil]

Sounds like city of mist, with all the free for all mobs in between temple and stables

[Spyder73]

GMs don't need to talk to anyone, they have logs. If you guys were continually 'accidently' tagging mobs at the 'same time' then its a simple log review and then swift justice is doled out. I would think it much more likely that your friend was engaged in a /tell war where he was being a complete c#nt to the other party.

Server rules like this are good so that a small cliques of players cant move in and bully an area with super aggressive play.

Been playing here for years now and never been suspended even once and I play mainly puller classes. Your friend f#cked up somehow

[Spyder73]

Also please post all names that are involved in this incident.

[Legidias]

This whole thread is useless and meaningless without knowledge of what camp, what mobs, and screenshots / logs.

[Nagoya]

OP is trying so hard to not turn it into (yet another) backfire RnF thread it is quite funny xD

The "friend" was obviously sluring, cursing, etc. somewhere in say/ooc/tell and got suspended. He was not "not allowed to speak", he just happened to had spoken already more than enough to warrant a little break. GMs can read what you write you know ^^;

That being said, I'm not sure I like the mob justice mentality "tell us the names right now" ... this is some scary fascist stuff right there :p

OP, either you didn't want to drag this out and you should have kept it to a GM-You interaction, or you want to make a topic about "what do we want from the GMs" without linking any story to it. The stupid in-between you did and now your constant trying to make it an open discussion instead of a backfire thread is not helping at all o_o

Maybe be a good friend and take a break with him! See you again soon /o/

[maskedmelon]

Discover This One Crazy Trick to Not Get Banned While Pulling!!


[spoiler]Dont attack engaged mobs![/quote]

[maskedmelon]

aww poo, I failed.

[jakerees]

I'm with them. What zone and what camp will probably be enlightening

[wtsgoodtime]

GMs don't need to talk to anyone, they have logs. If you guys were continually 'accidently' tagging mobs at the 'same time' then its a simple log review and then swift justice is doled out. I would think it much more likely that your friend was engaged in a /tell war where he was being a complete c#nt to the other party.

Server rules like this are good so that a small cliques of players cant move in and bully an area with super aggressive play.

Been playing here for years now and never been suspended even once and I play mainly puller classes. Your friend f#cked up somehow

Hey, sorry to slow down on replies... I'm at work.

This was seafuries in OOT. We realize it isn't something you can claim, so we didn't try to. We're happy to scout out and pull what we find up and untagged. I personally don't even pull when I see someone running up to it with the intention of pulling.

It wasn't repeatedly pulling. It was a single pull that was contested that started a flurry of angry messages directed at my friend. We did not think it could possibly result in any disciplinary action, so we did not worry about it. He did threaten to petition us, and apparently we need to take those threats more seriously. We incorrectly assumed that GMs would read the conversation and realize the petitioner was making a fuss over nothing.

OP is trying so hard to not turn it into (yet another) backfire RnF thread it is quite funny xD

The "friend" was obviously sluring, cursing, etc. somewhere in say/ooc/tell and got suspended. He was not "not allowed to speak", he just happened to had spoken already more than enough to warrant a little break. GMs can read what you write you know ^^;

That being said, I'm not sure I like the mob justice mentality "tell us the names right now" ... this is some scary fascist stuff right there :p

OP, either you didn't want to drag this out and you should have kept it to a GM-You interaction, or you want to make a topic about "what do we want from the GMs" without linking any story to it. The stupid in-between you did and now your constant trying to make it an open discussion instead of a backfire thread is not helping at all o_o

Maybe be a good friend and take a break with him! See you again soon /o/

As far as I know, all of the angry tells were directed at my friend and he claims to have responded reasonably... direct but relatively polite relative to what was being said to him.

I do agree nothing will come of the thread without posting evidence. We're waiting for a formal response from the GMs to figure out why he was even suspended. From our point of view, it doesn't make any sense at all. No matter who is in the wrong, people should be given some reason and chance to explain their point of view instead of having GMs take action on one side of a story.

[wtsgoodtime]

Oops, *can't claim*.

[Legidias]

His 'claims' of responding reasonably seems dubious at best. This is like 90% of backfired RnF threads

[wtsgoodtime]

His 'claims' of responding reasonably seems dubious at best. This is like 90% of backfired RnF threads

Yeah, hoping he has some screens of the conversation.

[Spyder73]

I'm pretty sure the staff is more severe at Seafury Island than nearly anywhere else because of the constant b!tching from that zone. Before they nerf'd gem drop rate Seafuries were basically permanently camped on this server along with AC for the jboot ring.

You most likely didn't get a fair shake on this one because its OOT and they have been dealing with these same issues for years.

Good news is the suspension is probably a short one for something like this.

Please post nudes of your body for further review

[wtsgoodtime]

I'm pretty sure the staff is more severe at Seafury Island than nearly anywhere else because of the constant b!tching from that zone. Before they nerf'd gem drop rate Seafuries were basically permanently camped on this server along with AC for the jboot ring.

You most likely didn't get a fair shake on this one because its OOT and they have been dealing with these same issues for years.

Good news is the suspension is probably a short one for something like this.

Please post nudes of your body for further review

Makes sense... I imagine that are pretty tired of the same problem. I'd like to see them take into consideration your account history and if you petition often, your petitions hold less weight. If you have played for years without incident, you are probably less likely to be at fault. Maybe they do this already.

Apparently a 7 day suspension. Maybe we should go outside and get some sun. :cool:

[rictus204]

lol getting suspended over some seafurrys, tunare have mercy.

[Maliant]

The Ocean of Tears was filled with the tears from Seafury Island. Brad Mcquaid said this himself.

[Teako]

This reminds me of the REEE tell from the other day about some guy losing his shit at graveyard in MM because someone was soloing it instead of grouping and that was more than their little brain could handle..

[Irulan]

We don't have pesky gm interference in red99.

Keep logs.

[Irulan]

Fraps.

[Uberom]

They were also green to the petitioner and don't drop any special loot.


You can't assume you have the right to mobs because they give you xp and the other people are 60. Those mobs are usually camped for gems. Generally, FTE (first to engage) is the rule of thumb for random mobs walking around.

[wtsgoodtime]

You can't assume you have the right to mobs because they give you xp and the other people are 60. Those mobs are usually camped for gems. Generally, FTE (first to engage) is the rule of thumb for random mobs walking around.

Understood... that was kind of beside the main point. We think (thought?) we were first to engage on this single unnamed mob.

[NegaStoat]

All I can tell the OP is that I was camping for Exp, killing 4 outdoor guard spawns that were all within LOS of each other and keeping them dead to single spawns on a timer. At no point were 2 left alive, and at no point did I let a fresh spawn stand around for longer than 10 seconds.

A second player walked up and used instant cast spells (an Item I think) to start taking the mobs I had broken as they spawned. I told them to stop and they pretended to not understand English. I petitioned a GM, explained the situation, the GM confirmed that what I was telling them was true. The GM then explained that for outdoor spawns of all kinds, a single player can only claim a single mob as "camped" by them regardless if they are static, or roaming, or all close together. One player, one mob outdoors. Period. The person I was consulting at the time was Braknar, and that's how it went.

Take the above for what it's worth. It greatly adjusted my attitude towards fellow players when it comes to the experience portion of the game.

[astrocreeper]

Hi there,

Background:
I used to play EQ back in 1999/2000 and quit shortly after Luclin was released. I've recently started playing on p99 with my friends who have been here for many years. I've been playing way too much and am lvl 47 in a few weeks.

Question:
I've noticed it is easy for people to start yelling about camps and spawns being contested. My friend was recently suspended without warning or explanation and we think it was due to someone complaining about taking their pulls. The pulls in question were probably pulled about the same time (within a second?) and were not part of a camp. They were also green to the petitioner and don't drop any special loot. If anything, this sounds like the petitioner is violating not disrupting normal playability of the zone for those of us who get XP.

We invest a lot of time in our characters in this game. Do we want GMs suspending/banning people without talking about it? This is only going to lead to people petitioning all the time for anything as a CYA technique. I want fair and honest discussion getting to the root of the issue before action is taken. You may not care until it happens to you.

Thoughts?


(Was previously posted in "Server chat" and the initial thought was that there were ragey /tells that caused suspension, but how can you know when there is no explanation?)


I read both your threads and all your posts. A few thoughts come to mind. Maybe the GM decided your friend is a lost cause base on the chat logs. Maybe the GM figured your friend already knew what he did wrong. Maybe the GM rolled his eyes and moved on to more important things. Maybe the GM doesn't want to deal with the same petty issue 2x with warnings. Maybe he was going to give your friend a reason but then his dog had to go out and he forgot.

1. You told us these pulls drop "no special loot". OOT Seafuries drop vendorable items that sells upwards of 100 plat per drop. The XP is bad, the cyclops are unmezzable, unstunnable, have many hitpoints, and they hit hard. People go there for the sweet loot. It's always been highly contested by max level players. Your friend has been here for many years? I'm shocked this didn't come up in conversation duing that long wait for the boat.

2. You claimed this player was "violating not disrupting normal playability of the zone for those of us who get XP." Whether or not you get XP has nothing to do with whether or not you can pull things. Even if it were decaying skellies in W Freeport newbie yard and a level 60 necro was looking for bone chips in the wrong place, if he tags it first over a level one that's totally within the rules. It's not "disrupting normal gameplay." At worst, it's a bit rude to do it in newbie zones.

3. You go back and forth between it being a "pull" and "pulls". Did it happen a bunch of times, or once? Whoever got suspended was most likely not the first to engage, unless they got suspended for stuff in chat. Was your friend continually stealing pulls after he was asked to stop, or did he say some stuff in chat? Your friend can answer that.

5. You said something in one of your posts about being there first. Being there first means nothing. If getting there first mattered, Seafury Isle would have been permacamped and handed down among the same group of people 24 hours a day 7 days a week every week for about 8 years straight by now. Everyone else after that ever would be not first, including you and your friend.

One thing is clear, somebody needs a new lawyer.

[Just facts]

GMs don't need to talk to anyone, they have logs. If you guys were continually 'accidently' tagging mobs at the 'same time' then its a simple log review and then swift justice is doled out. I would think it much more likely that your friend was engaged in a /tell war where he was being a complete c#nt to the other party.

Server rules like this are good so that a small cliques of players cant move in and bully an area with super aggressive play.

Been playing here for years now and never been suspended even once and I play mainly puller classes. Your friend f#cked up somehow

/This

[Irulan]

All I can tell the OP is that I was camping for Exp, killing 4 outdoor guard spawns that were all within LOS of each other and keeping them dead to single spawns on a timer. At no point were 2 left alive, and at no point did I let a fresh spawn stand around for longer than 10 seconds.

A second player walked up and used instant cast spells (an Item I think) to start taking the mobs I had broken as they spawned. I told them to stop and they pretended to not understand English. I petitioned a GM, explained the situation, the GM confirmed that what I was telling them was true. The GM then explained that for outdoor spawns of all kinds, a single player can only claim a single mob as "camped" by them regardless if they are static, or roaming, or all close together. One player, one mob outdoors. Period. The person I was consulting at the time was Braknar, and that's how it went.

Take the above for what it's worth. It greatly adjusted my attitude towards fellow players when it comes to the experience portion of the game.

You did the right thing. Thanks for reporting the criminal scum.

Anyone who can't understand these straightforward simple rules is a threat to our glorious community! They must be purged!

[wtsgoodtime]

All I can tell the OP is that I was camping for Exp, killing 4 outdoor guard spawns that were all within LOS of each other and keeping them dead to single spawns on a timer. At no point were 2 left alive, and at no point did I let a fresh spawn stand around for longer than 10 seconds.

A second player walked up and used instant cast spells (an Item I think) to start taking the mobs I had broken as they spawned. I told them to stop and they pretended to not understand English. I petitioned a GM, explained the situation, the GM confirmed that what I was telling them was true. The GM then explained that for outdoor spawns of all kinds, a single player can only claim a single mob as "camped" by them regardless if they are static, or roaming, or all close together. One player, one mob outdoors. Period. The person I was consulting at the time was Braknar, and that's how it went.

Take the above for what it's worth. It greatly adjusted my attitude towards fellow players when it comes to the experience portion of the game.

That seems really wrong. The server rules (#2) do indicate it is up to interpretation by the GM, but it sounds like you were holding those spawns down and the person stole the spawn. I can't understand why a GM would essentially encourage that behavior by giving them what they want. Anyway, sorry you had to deal with that.

I read both your threads and all your posts. A few thoughts come to mind. Maybe the GM decided your friend is a lost cause base on the chat logs. Maybe the GM figured your friend already knew what he did wrong. Maybe the GM rolled his eyes and moved on to more important things. Maybe the GM doesn't want to deal with the same petty issue 2x with warnings. Maybe he was going to give your friend a reason but then his dog had to go out and he forgot.

1. You told us these pulls drop "no special loot". OOT Seafuries drop vendorable items that sells upwards of 100 plat per drop. The XP is bad, the cyclops are unmezzable, unstunnable, have many hitpoints, and they hit hard. People go there for the sweet loot. It's always been highly contested by max level players. Your friend has been here for many years? I'm shocked this didn't come up in conversation duing that long wait for the boat.

2. You claimed this player was "violating not disrupting normal playability of the zone for those of us who get XP." Whether or not you get XP has nothing to do with whether or not you can pull things. Even if it were decaying skellies in W Freeport newbie yard and a level 60 necro was looking for bone chips in the wrong place, if he tags it first over a level one that's totally within the rules. It's not "disrupting normal gameplay." At worst, it's a bit rude to do it in newbie zones.

3. You go back and forth between it being a "pull" and "pulls". Did it happen a bunch of times, or once? Whoever got suspended was most likely not the first to engage, unless they got suspended for stuff in chat. Was your friend continually stealing pulls after he was asked to stop, or did he say some stuff in chat? Your friend can answer that.

5. You said something in one of your posts about being there first. Being there first means nothing. If getting there first mattered, Seafury Isle would have been permacamped and handed down among the same group of people 24 hours a day 7 days a week every week for about 8 years straight by now. Everyone else after that ever would be not first, including you and your friend.

One thing is clear, somebody needs a new lawyer.

1. Yes, the spawn rate is pretty low. We were kind of dumbfounded by the petitioner would want to fight these, because he could make more money porting people instead of petitioning people. This is beside the point - my friend tagged the same mob about the same time and was suspended for a single instance.

2. Yes, I know this, again beside the point. Right, I would agree it is legal but rude.

3. It was a single pull. If I am speaking generally (not our specific situation), I may be using pulls.

4. ?

5. Right, beside the point... sometimes I am talking about the server rule legality of the situation, others I am talking about the consideration a person should have for others.

Lol! Yes, a new lawyer... I can tell you are trying to help, and thanks for reading all of it. I learned not to mix specific and general situation chat in the same threads.

You did the right thing. Thanks for reporting the criminal scum.

Anyone who can't understand these straightforward simple rules is a threat to our glorious community! They must be purged!

I concur, that is unacceptable behavior. I wish the GM had agreed.

[wtsgoodtime]

Err... I meant the spawn rate of the loot is kind of low now, but the spawn rate of seafuries is huge... there are often tons of them up.

[Spyder73]

That seems really wrong. The server rules (#2) do indicate it is up to interpretation by the GM, but it sounds like you were holding those spawns down and the person stole the spawn. I can't understand why a GM would essentially encourage that behavior by giving them what they want. Anyway, sorry you had to deal with that.

You cant 'camp' outdoor mobs. Ask any Druid who has ever quadded their way to 60 how many f#cks are given if someone comes and starts stealing your quad mobs. Answer: zero f#cks given. Seafuries are definitely FTE regardless of weather you can keep the entire island down or not.

Caveat to the FTE rule is if a player is kiting more than 5 mobs you can tag off their train. So when you see a Bard with 10 mobs behind him feel free to start picking them off and killing them.

[wtsgoodtime]

You cant 'camp' outdoor mobs. Ask any Druid who has ever quadded their way to 60 how many f#cks are given if someone comes and starts stealing your quad mobs. Answer: zero f#cks given. Seafuries are definitely FTE regardless of weather you can keep the entire island down or not.

Caveat to the FTE rule is if a player is kiting more than 5 mobs you can tag off their train. So when you see a Bard with 10 mobs behind him feel free to start picking them off and killing them.

Gotcha. I think that is what NegaStoat also found out. Even with static, non-roamers, you cannot camp outdoor mobs (with the exception of a single static spawn?).

This is all news to me ... I figured you should camp static spawns that you can hold down, but apparently not.

All of that is of course irrelevant with respect to seafuries... those are roamers.

[durag5]

I was on of the third parties in this "indecent" and every excuse that has come up for the GM's behavior is incorrect other than what the GM was doing personally (dog needed to potty?).


Did OPs friend deserve a warning? Yes

Did OPS friend deserve a suspension for technically breaking rules by KS accidentally 1 time? Maybe?

Is 7 days suspension way overkill for a long time player on a first offense who did not say anything offensive in a "tell war"? Absolutely


The only nasty words were said by the other party who was ranting and raving with walls of texts about one accidental KS pull that we thought he accidentally pulled from us.

[maskedmelon]

I was on of the third parties in this "indecent" and every excuse that has come up for the GM's behavior is incorrect other than what the GM was doing personally (dog needed to potty?).


Did OPs friend deserve a warning? Yes

Did OPS friend deserve a suspension for technically breaking rules by KS accidentally 1 time? Maybe?

Is 7 days suspension way overkill for a long time player on a first offense who did not say anything offensive in a "tell war"? Absolutely


The only nasty words were said by the other party who was ranting and raving with walls of texts about one accidental KS pull that we thought he accidentally pulled from us.

someone ban this guy for staff bashing, run a namencheck on aon all toons housed on every account associated with his IP and rename nonconforming ones.

and ban OP too for 3Ping with him.

[durag5]

someone ban this guy for staff bashing, run a namencheck on aon all toons housed on every account associated with his IP and rename nonconforming ones.

and ban OP too for 3Ping with him.

Would love for you to point out where I bashed staff.

Saying a punishment is overkill is far from a bash.

[wtsgoodtime]

I was on of the third parties in this "indecent" and every excuse that has come up for the GM's behavior is incorrect other than what the GM was doing personally (dog needed to potty?).


Did OPs friend deserve a warning? Yes

Did OPS friend deserve a suspension for technically breaking rules by KS accidentally 1 time? Maybe?

Is 7 days suspension way overkill for a long time player on a first offense who did not say anything offensive in a "tell war"? Absolutely


The only nasty words were said by the other party who was ranting and raving with walls of texts about one accidental KS pull that we thought he accidentally pulled from us.

"Indecent"!? I think you meant incident.

All I heard was petitioner was sending walls of text and we didn't really think much of it because if he broke the rules, it was accidental.

[wtsgoodtime]

Would love for you to point out where I bashed staff.

Saying a punishment is overkill is far from a bash.

Hey, I think it is important to remember that we are playing on a free server with volunteers. So thanks to the staff for doing your best. Trying to set expectations on player behavior and disciplinary outcomes helps build community and prevent conflict imo.

[Irulan]

I was on of the third parties in this "indecent" and every excuse that has come up for the GM's behavior is incorrect other than what the GM was doing personally (dog needed to potty?).


Did OPs friend deserve a warning? Yes

Did OPS friend deserve a suspension for technically breaking rules by KS accidentally 1 time? Maybe?

Is 7 days suspension way overkill for a long time player on a first offense who did not say anything offensive in a "tell war"? Absolutely


The only nasty words were said by the other party who was ranting and raving with walls of texts about one accidental KS pull that we thought he accidentally pulled from us.

I for one am glad our 1st Amendment rights are strictly protected on this server.

[durag5]

I for one am glad our 1st Amendment rights are strictly protected on this server.

A large amount of people say the GMs side with the one not blowing up in tells vs the other party. Just saying it didn't happen and was exactly the opposite.

[Triiz]

You cant 'camp' outdoor mobs. Ask any Druid who has ever quadded their way to 60 how many f#cks are given if someone comes and starts stealing your quad mobs. Answer: zero f#cks given. Seafuries are definitely FTE regardless of weather you can keep the entire island down or not.


Nope. Not that it really matters now that Seafuries suck, but back in the day you could definitely "camp" a single spawn. The one by the tree at the druid rings was best cause you could sit right on the spawn and still nail 2-3 other spawns with a javelin without moving and not as many people tried to FTE them as the top of hill spawns. It was shitty plat, but sometimes it was better than getting no spawns when 10 people were there.


Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

Not sure how to quote closed threaads but that^^ is Llandris (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2486817&postcount=46) re: seafury camping

[loramin]

Not sure how to quote closed threaads but that^^ is Llandris (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2486817&postcount=46) re: seafury camping

For future reference you add "= Llandris" inside the quote tag. So (using parenthesis instead of brackets):


(QUOTE=Llandris)some quote(/QUOTE)

[wtsgoodtime]

Nope. Not that it really matters now that Seafuries suck, but back in the day you could definitely "camp" a single spawn. The one by the tree at the druid rings was best cause you could sit right on the spawn and still nail 2-3 other spawns with a javelin without moving and not as many people tried to FTE them as the top of hill spawns. It was shitty plat, but sometimes it was better than getting no spawns when 10 people were there.



Not sure how to quote closed threaads but that^^ is Llandris (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2486817&postcount=46) re: seafury camping

These are the types of situations that would be nice to have clarified in the formal server rules.

Does it matter if indoor or outdoor? Does it matter if named or not?

I for one would just prefer to just play nice and use common sense, but when confronted over something like this, I'd like to know the rules.

[loramin]

These are the types of situations that would be nice to have clarified in the formal server rules.

Does it matter if indoor or outdoor? Does it matter if named or not?

I for one would just prefer to just play nice and use common sense, but when confronted over something like this, I'd like to know the rules.

This is not the first post like this here, and it certainly won't be the last. Personally I think posts like these are a side effect of two problems:

some of the actual P99 rules are never published
the rules which are published exist in several different places


Even leaving out the raid rules, P99 currently has five published rules pages:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159515
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211699
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1057

That can't be helping people learn the rules here ... but even if they did read all of those posts they still wouldn't know some important server rules.

Now I understand why the staff doesn't want to publish "the real rules": they want (and, I'd argue, need) the freedom to make rulings on the fly ... but I still feel like there's a potential happy medium possible where they publish the real rules but still leave some details (eg. specific camps) unspecified so that they aren't constrained in their rulings.

Camps are a perfect example: there are the rules as published (in however many different places), and there are the actual rules. The actual rules are:

Outdoor Zones*: You can "camp" one mob, IF you wait at its spawn point and IF you kill both it and its placeholders in a timely fashion. You can camp more than one mob if you want, but if someone else shows up and wants to share you each get a single spawn point (as the person who was there first you get to pick which one).

Everything* in an outdoor zone that isn't explicitly coming from a camped spawn point is FTE (First to Engage). In other words, whoever agroes the mob first gets it.

Indoor Zones*: Similar to outdoor zones, but you usually can camp multiple mobs; instead of a single spawn point you typically use line of sight to decide where one person's camp stops and another's starts.

*: There are exceptions to both of the above. One obvious exception is raid mobs, which have their own set of rules. There are others though, like the two spawn point camp for the Goblin Ghazugi Ring: I believe most GMs won't force you to share those two spawn points, but there's no way to know for sure until someone petitions you.


P99 could still make the rules so much clearer by:


having a single rules page
including all of the "real" server rules (but not a specific camp list) in that document


I would be more than happy to do the work of trying to create that document IF it was desired, but unfrotunately for now the status quo of five documents with parts of the rules left out seems to be what the staff wants.

[wtsgoodtime]

This is not the first post like this here, and it certainly won't be the last. Personally I think posts like these are a side effect of two problems:

some of the actual P99 rules are never published
the rules which are published exist in several different places


Even leaving out the raid rules, P99 currently has five published rules pages:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159515
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211699
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1057

That can't be helping people learn the rules here ... but even if they did read all of those posts they still wouldn't know some important server rules.

Now I understand why the staff doesn't want to publish "the real rules": they want (and, I'd argue, need) the freedom to make rulings on the fly ... but I still feel like there's a potential happy medium possible where they publish the real rules but still leave some details (eg. specific camps) unspecified so that they aren't constrained in their rulings.

Camps are a perfect example: there are the rules as published (in however many different places), and there are the actual rules. The actual rules are:



P99 could still make the rules so much clearer by:


having a single rules page
including all of the "real" server rules (but not a specific camp list) in that document


I would be more than happy to do the work of trying to create that document IF it was desired, but unfrotunately for now the status quo of five documents with parts of the rules left out seems to be what the staff wants.

Thanks for all of the links and constructive post! I think it'd be great to consolidate down to a single page with as clear rules as possible.

[Darkyle]

not reading through this but it sounds EXACTLY what happened at EK crags last week. Dude called draguun was ksing a monk farming silk by sending his pet in on mobs the monk was already fighting, dude tried to claim he was casting bolt spells and then apparently swore at the GM. Could be wrong though :rolleyes:

[Ket]

Caveat to the FTE rule is if a player is kiting more than 5 mobs you can tag off their train. So when you see a Bard with 10 mobs behind him feel free to start picking them off and killing them.

Wait, is this true?

Those muthafukkers in NK kiting all my goddamn Willowisps are about to get it.

[Shinko]

tldr this thread please