Apostrophes and You

[Canelek]

I've noticed that the incorrect use of apostrophes is extremely common here (Solo'd, duo'd, etc.) Is that a thing on these boards or a genuine misuse of punctuation? I'm not bashing or language-shaming, but I am certainly intrigued.

[maskedmelonpai]

apostrophe is used in place of omitted letters.

please tell us more about how to properly punctuate made up words.

[Canelek]

You bet! They are often used in place of omitted letters such as do not becoming don't. I do not believe they are intended to shorten a past tense word.

That said, duoed is indeed not a human word. Soloed, however, is.

Again, I am just curious about this message board phenomenon.

[radda]

Lol...,
Lol'd

[Kaight]

While we're on the topic of grammar, it's "would have" or "would've," not "would of."

Would of is NOT A THING

[Alder]

language is a made up thing it can change with time

we don't say shit like "if thou wylt" anymore either

[Lhancelot]

apostrophe is used in place of omitted letters.

please tell us more about how to properly punctuate made up words.

rofl. :D

P.S. You got pwn'd OP

[Canelek]

While we're on the topic of grammar, it's "would have" or "would've," not "would of."

Would of is NOT A THING

Not woulda? :D

[loramin]

language is a made up thing it can change with time

we don't say shit like "if thou wylt" anymore either

I lived with two Linguistics majors in college (and half of our very large D&D group were Linguistics majors also; one even had a character named !abu). They would confirm this.

[Phenyo]

apostrophe is used in place of omitted letters.

please tell us more about how to properly punctuate made up words.

dunk'd

[paulgiamatti]

They are often used in place of omitted letters such as do not becoming don't.

This is called a contraction.

I do not believe they are intended to shorten a past tense word.

You're correct in this belief - they aren't, and never will be. I don't particularly mind when people do this conversationally because I'm not an obnoxious pedant (not suggesting you are either), but I do make a passive mental note about someone when they do it. "Ah, this person doesn't know how to write very well in the English language." No biggie. Lots of people have the same problem.

That said, duoed is indeed not a human word. Soloed, however, is.

On that note, it's also technically incorrect to use apostrophes (not apostrophe's) for pluralization - e.g., "I grew up in the '90s" is correct, while "I grew up in the 90's" is not. "I won seven CoFs today" is correct, while "I won seven CoF's today" is not. Apostrophes, unless used as a contraction, should generally only be used to denote possession, except when used as a quotation mark or arbitrarily in a formal title - e.g., "Caiu totally ganked Aftermath's Bladestopper while they were trying to recharge it."

[Swish]

gr8 thred, irate 8/8

[Canelek]

This is called a contraction.



You're correct in this belief - they aren't, and never will be. I don't particularly mind when people do this conversationally because I'm not an obnoxious pedant (not suggesting you are either), but I do make a passive mental note about someone when they do it. "Ah, this person doesn't know how to write very well in the English language." No biggie. Lots of people have the same problem.



On that note, it's also technically incorrect to use apostrophes (not apostrophe's) for pluralization - e.g., "I grew up in the '90s" is correct, while "I grew up in the 90's" is not. "I won seven CoFs today" is correct, while "I won seven CoF's today" is not. Apostrophes, unless used as a contraction, should generally only be used to denote possession, except when used as a quotation mark or arbitrarily in a formal title - e.g., "Caiu totally ganked Aftermath's Bladestopper while they were trying to recharge it."

Right. Possession is the primary use, and also the source of greatest confusion. Contractions rank up there as well. There are quite a few other rules that I do not readily recall.

Again, I am not criticizing folks for grammar. I just make mental notes as well and I found this community is rather unique in certain punctuation usage. It is sort of like the proliferation of allot and alot as opposed to the proper 'a lot'. At the end of the day, most people understand what is conveyed even if it is not exact.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You know, this almost should be stickied on the "starting zone" subboard.

I think it is a fair and honest question. Remember the term "leet speak"?

(and yes, I realize the question mark should inside the quotes, but I find that... distracting)

We talk funny in game and we talk funny on message boards, always have. What sane adult, for example, would publicly say the word "woot!" (in this case I feel the exclamation is integral not distracting, and so belongs in the quotation marks) in actual real life?

I always cringe when I do anymore. I'm like, dude, save that for your online stuff; there is very little "woot" in rl.

http://i.imgur.com/75u49Sn.gif

[loramin]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/948/754/45f.jpg

I wish I knew how to make images actually show up :(

[paulgiamatti]

Punctuation outside of quotation marks actually isn't technically wrong when it isn't a part of the quote. It's just more British than American, weirdly enough. American English teaches that you should always place punctuation inside of quotes, regardless of what the punctuation belongs to. I think the British way is becoming more universal, because it honestly just makes more sense.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

loramin: they have to be from imgur. they changed the forums last year sometime, only imgur stuff shows up. smooth operators ~la

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Punctuation outside of quotation marks actually isn't technically wrong when it isn't a part of the quote. It's just more British than American, weirdly enough. American English teaches that you should always place punctuation inside of quotes, regardless of what the punctuation belongs to. I think the British way is becoming more universal, because it honestly just makes more sense.

I am going to wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel punctuation needs to defer to the needs and intents of the quote. I mean, that is the entire point of a quotation, I would hope.

[loramin]

loramin: they have to be from imgur. they changed the forums last year sometime, only imgur stuff shows up. smooth operators ~la

Thank you!

http://i.imgur.com/hrkIeBR.gif

[paulgiamatti]

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

[loramin]

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

If I only had one finger on each hand, I'd leave out unnecessary letters too!

:D

[maskedmelonpai]

... such as do not becoming don't.



No biggie.


"I won seven CoFs today" is correct...



hmmmm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI)

[skarlorn]

'd

past tense sfx

[maskedmelonpai]

hmmmm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI)

im sorry that not nice. i dunno why i do that :c

[Tankdan]

Yall don't know alot about grammar lmao

[Lojik]

Thought this thread would of been about players' named Apostrophes and You.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

plurals and youse

[Izmael]

i would of agreed with you're posts if i care'd

[Barcelona]

...What sane adult, for example, would publicly say the word "woot!"...

I cannot explain why, but i have heard this in actual conversation by normal, sane non-gaming-nerds before. My best guess is that it may have transitioned out of the gaming world into "normal" people's repertoire through the widespread epidemic known as memes.

[Lhancelot]

I enjoyed Paul's informative post on grammar. Liked how he used the word "pedant" too!

Thanks, Paul!

[indiscriminate_hater]

OP's fat

[Bruno]

I enjoyed Paul's informative post on grammar. Liked how he used the word "pedant" too!

Thanks, Paul!

I was thinking the same thing. Paul sounds like a dude I would sit down and have a beer with.

[jackd104]

Poop'd

[Lhancelot]

I was thinking the same thing. Paul sounds like a dude I would sit down and have a beer with.

Wonder what kind of beer Paul drinks? For some reason I think he drinks wine and not beer. Red wine.

[Zekayy]

No fucks given

[Bruno]

Wonder what kind of beer Paul drinks? For some reason I think he drinks wine and not beer. Red wine.

I can do a malbec if he would like

[Kaight]

mmmmm malbec

[WizardEQ]

Fo'c's'le is a correct "word" meaning forecastle. Sailors would know the former, but may not know the latter. However, few others know this word and most would say it isn't a word.

I posit that is more screwed up than using duo'd or cc'd which are not words in the traditional sense. Language is a living, breathing organism that adapts to what people are willing to accept during certain times. I'm all for correct, proper English. But when it comes to rolling out a text or a PM, why not abbreviate if everyone knows what you're trying to convey?

[NachtMystium]

I've noticed that the incorrect use of apostrophes is extremely common here (Solo'd, duo'd, etc.) Is that a thing on these boards or a genuine misuse of punctuation? I'm not bashing or language-shaming, but I am certainly intrigued.

imagine what kind of real life person is sitting there typing this shit on a 7 year old emulator for a 17 year old elf game. just really think hard what that existence must be like.

[paulgiamatti]

Fo'c's'le is a correct "word" meaning forecastle. Sailors would know the former, but may not know the latter. However, few others know this word and most would say it isn't a word.

Well, it's also still a contraction. Traditionally contractions are only meant to combine and shorten two separate words, but there are exceptions where the two words being contracted have already been condensed into one composite word - "cannot" becomes "can't", for example. In your example, the words "fore" and "castle" have already been condensed into one word, so the contraction serves more as an abbreviation of a single word rather than a connecting point between two separate words. You can drop any one or two of those apostrophes and the word is still just as technically "correct".

I posit that is more screwed up than using duo'd or cc'd which are not words in the traditional sense.

I disagree, because all of the contracted versions of "forecastle" are serving the purpose of abbreviation. Nothing is being subtracted from "duo'd", or "solo'd", or "CC'd", so I'd take the hard line that they aren't contractions and that contractions simply can't be used to abbreviate words in the past tense, because all you'd be doing is replacing one letter with an apostrophe.

Language is a living, breathing organism that adapts to what people are willing to accept during certain times.

Absolutely - I just need at least some kind of functionality in order to accept a colloquial word. "Gonna", "shoulda", "prolly", et al make perfect sense to me because they're easier to speak or write. I suppose you could argue that within the context of some EQ acronyms, an apostrophe is more understandable. "CCed that mob" might prompt someone to wonder exactly what "crowd control education" entails, or how one might educate this NPC in the ways of crowd control. Also, you could argue that the apostrophe is better when using variable-width fonts simply by virtue of saving millimeters in screen space.

I'm all for correct, proper English. But when it comes to rolling out a text or a PM, why not abbreviate if everyone knows what you're trying to convey?

Because a lot of the time (I just visualized an Alot made out of time) they aren't abbreviations. If you can be proper without sacrificing efficiency or comprehensibility, then why not be proper?

[paulgiamatti]

You can drop any one or two of those apostrophes and the word is still just as technically "correct".

Meaning if you were to drop the apostrophe in lieu of the subtracted letters.

contractions simply can't be used to abbreviate words in the past tense, because all you'd be doing is replacing one letter with an apostrophe.

Meaning for the sole purpose of shortening only the past tense component of that word. Obviously you can still abbreviate past tense words, e.g., "Dude, you totally got fo'c's'led.

[maskedmelonpai]

glad to see lotta dicsuction on how to properly conjugate acronyms now. i liek words too :3

past tense of "lol" though is "lol"



if people were going round saying liek "loot'd" or "camp'd", y'all'd've had an interesting observation that sorta make some sense, but they not and here you is arguing for a unintuitive conjugation that confusing because it fail to preserve the nature of the acronym.

how you think a normal person gonna pronounce "cced" if they never seen it? They might think it a acronym and ask, "what see-see-ee-dee stand for?" or they might say, "what is see-sed?" utilizing proper capitalization help a little if you say "CCed," but then they still gonna probably ask what "see-see" means 90% the time.

the " 'd" preserve the acronym while indicating something else, which everyone (even people it rustle) understand as indicating it already happened. it intuitive and that why it utilized.

[maskedmelonpai]

i meant to say,

"but they still gonna ask what see-sed mean 90% of the time."

my iPhone betray me :c it taken long time to train it to accept what I tell it, but it still ignore me sometime >.>

[coldslaw]

past tense of "lol" though is "lol"

False. It's "l'dol"

Joking aside, can it not actually be whatever anyone wants it to be because its a acronym that as progressed into almost becoming a word of its own. There's really no standard definition on proper usage yet, other than it means "laugh out loud."

Kind of neat to be able to watch the evolution of a language in real time.

[Cecily]

Devolution.

[paulgiamatti]

Well, it's also still a contraction.

Now I'm nerding out and have discovered you can also call it a syncope, although "fo'c's'le" appears to be unique in that it involves apostrophes. The only other time words are compressed in similar fashion is when done as a poetic device, such as "over" becoming "o'er", "never" becoming "ne'er", etc., which is also referred to as syncope.

[paulgiamatti]

Also, something that occurred to me is I never actually use acronyms as past tense verbs, such as "I CCed that mob", or "I LoLed at that" - I consciously avoid this by simply phrasing it differently. "i had to cc that mob", "that made me lol irl", etc.

[NachtMystium]

Devolution.

God of Terror, very low dost thou bring us. Very low hast thou brought us.

[paulgiamatti]

Devolution.

I prefer to call it idiocratization.

[georgie]

This guy came on a high horse from some relationship salvaging forum, that only takes threads seriously if they are properly punctualized or are in appropriate stanza

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Also, something that occurred to me is I never actually use acronyms as past tense verbs, such as "I CCed that mob", or "I LoLed at that" - I consciously avoid this by simply phrasing it differently. "i had to cc that mob", "that made me lol irl", etc.

I tend to utilize the apostrophe for past tense. And I am ok with the past tense of lol being some form of lul'd.

By the way, I predict within 3 pages this thread will turn into a heated debate about the Battle of Agincourt re: what contributed more, the location of the battle in a concentrated and boggy area (which thwarted the French advantage in mounted and dismounted knights) or the technological advantage of the English longbows.

[Hordequester]

Also, something that occurred to me is I never actually use acronyms as past tense verbs, such as "I CCed that mob", or "I LoLed at that" - I consciously avoid this by simply phrasing it differently. "i had to cc that mob", "that made me lol irl", etc. CC is an initialism... for the record.