Invulnerability aggro dump bug thread deleted.

[Dolalin]

I main a warrior, so I didn't have a horse in this race. I honestly didn't realize the current DA aggro behaviour wasn't classic until reading through the research in the thread by the usual (and very respected) fact-finders, who spend quite a few hours a week proving out just what's classic and what isn't.

And to play classic EQ? Hey, that's why we're all here.

Let's be frank: this wasn't a "we've decided not to fix this". It wasn't a "meh we don't think this will fly in the current environment". It wasn't even a "we're just not gonna fix it, end of thread".

Instead, this was "It's never going to happen. I don't believe you. It never worked that way, and even if it did, fuck you" by the big R, directed at all the researchers in that thread, in the face of objective facts. Ego shut that shit down.

That sucks, for everyone.

[maskedmelonpai]

need to better understand your ambitions before deciding whether to flame or not. are you lobbying for the reintroduction of extinct bugs by virtue of their classic nature?

[Sadiki]

I didn't see the thread, what is the rundown on this? I thought it was working normally, but I also never had any reason to use DA on live (whereas I use it all the time here for various things)

Also melon is using big words and it's scaring me

[Dolalin]

Nah. People went to a lot of length to evidence that DA should drop you to 1 hate on the aggro list in the current era, pretty indisputably imo, and it was shut down from on high. Not for any reason at all, or no reason, but because it seems like somebody didn't want to admit they might be wrong.

[Sadiki]

Just during the duration of the DA? I do see a temporary hate drop during DA, like i used to. Maybe I'll have to test it out.

Also hi Fatter <3

[Dolalin]

Looks like my bad, it wasn't deleted, it was moved.

Summary:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2472183&postcount=46

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2472286&postcount=47

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2472350&postcount=48

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2494640&postcount=58

I mean everyone can draw their own conclusions. But leaders need to be able to admit when they're wrong.

[maskedmelonpai]

I didn't see the thread, what is the rundown on this? I thought it was working normally, but I also never had any reason to use DA on live (whereas I use it all the time here for various things)

Also melon is using big words and it's scaring me

what that s'pose to mean? i have you know, the melonian lexicon is a deep well of queer words and obtuse grammar stuffs. just cause i dunt use most them dont mean they ain't in there >.>

[loramin]

I mean everyone can draw their own conclusions. But leaders need to be able to admit when they're wrong.

Rogean doesn't get to play here. Nilbog doesn't get to play here. None of the other GMs/developers get to play here. All these people volunteer insane amounts of their own personal time because they have one singular desire: to re-create, as best as possible, the classic Everquest experience for others to enjoy.

Now, either people like that, who have no "dog in the game" (because they don't even have any dogs ... er characters), are so full of pride that they ignore solid evidence that could make their server more classic ...

... or you're proposing a significant change to gameplay with minimal evidence and they're responding by saying they need more evidence before changing gameplay so drastically.

Look I saw Daldaen in that thread, and that dude most certainly knows how to do classic research. If he can't produce proof that satisfies the powers that be (something which I believe he's done successfully several times) then maybe there just isn't enough evidence out there, regardless of what truly was/wasn't happening in classic.

[Dolalin]

Maybe, Loramin. And maybe I'm overreacting (I'm willing to eat that crow). But the tone of it just rubs me the wrong way, ya know?

[derpcake]

used to use bard DA agro song all the time for the agro drop

also to prevent people from getting ports

[Ravager]

It's too bad he doesn't take stands like this against all of the things that are too powerful and game breaking like Soulfires, recharging clickies and MQs.

[Daldaen]

As with many things this bug post stemmed from how I know with 100% certainty it worked on Al'Kabor. Which, up until it's shut down in 2013, had the most classic code base available on an official SOE/Daybreak server.

I know this because I played Al'Kabor and Project 1999 simultaneously. I spent 600k and a PoWater Ceramic to buy 2 DA Earring on AK so that I could recharge my own DA earring and have an aggro dump method on my Druid (DPSing on a Druid you were generally limited by aggro not mana pool in this era).

Plenty of times on tank swaps, I also played a Cleric box and if you lived through the first round and got off a DA you could always click it off and have no issues with aggro (unless your HP was under the low HP threshold).

I also boxed a Bard on raids many times, it was a common tactics for bards in wizard groups to announce their DA song going out to drop aggro on all the wizards to allow them to continue burning without having to twist multiple concussions in the mix.

----

Which brings us to P99. Whenever I know something worked on AK, there are three possibilities:


This is classic.
This was changed from Velious-PoP (late 2001-late 2002). (Aka not P99 classic)
It was an Al'Kabor aberration that never existed on another server.


So generally to find evidence in era is the goal. I found a fair number of posts in multiple locations (safehouse, eqclerics, some bard forum, dev patchnote quote) which all indicated this was a thing that existed on Live EQ. Most of these quotes were in 2002-2003 though, so not exactly in era. Seeing the Cleric in the Sontalak video purposefully cast DA immediately after landing a group CH and then proceeding to click it off, further made me believe the aggro dump was correct for P99 timeline (2001).

It made rational sense that some people would disagree this is a thing when DA fades and the mob turns to attack the 2% HP cleric. Yes it dumps almost all of your activate hate, but it keeps you on the hatelist. Meaning when DA ends the low HP hate still has the potential to jump you to the top.

It also makes rational sense that the way it was coded after that June 2001 patch note fixing DA tanking was to make sure that you lose all of your hate to prevent tanks from DAing before an AE or DT, then clicking it off after some other useless class eats it allowing them to continue tanking without losing the hate they built up. Though this seems less likely to be intentional design and just bad coding (like Buff stripping on zoning with low HP - A bug report I made several times that eventually got pushed through by Haynar)

It's possible I may have have been misunderstood in the bug post. DA by no means would remove you from the hatelist. Just drop you to the bottom position on the hatelist. If it removed you I would surely see the balance concern. But lowering your position really is a non-factor on this server filled with instant click aggro generation, as far as balance goes.

I was certainly disappointed to see Rogean's decision. It's his box and he can do with it what he wants but I think he is wrong on this one and it is a classic mechanic after the 2001 DA change.

If you're concerned about balance there are much bigger fish to fry on P99. Allowing Clerics, SKs, Necros (lol FD), and Bards to drop their hate list position with DA doesn't even crack the top 10 balance issues with the current P99 raid scene. If you'd like to address these issues feel free to hit me up Nilbog/Rogean. Being someone who has been in the raid scene and knows about game mechanics I have plenty of things you'd like to hear about that go on which don't jive with classic EQ or your vision of the server.

[Papa]

corrupt server

[RedXIII]

Too long, noone gives a fuck. Go back to Erudin in TAKP server, Daldaen!

[Juevento]

People keep saying DA in this thread and my RnF BDA mentions alert batphone is going nuts.

Please use the full name of the spell. Thanks.

[Sadiki]

Divine BDA?

[meadtj]

Works exactly the same on P99 as it did on live, theres no evidence to the contrary.

[meadtj]

Also buff stripping on zoning with low HP is classic, thats why its there. That would happen all the time on live.