The Omega Proposal

[temporalrift]

In Reference to server rules 1-11 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299) You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

In accordance of rule 4.12 I hereby initiate The Omega Proposal: the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened for the habitual violation of Rule 4.12 under the Server Rules and Expectations set forth under the auspices of Derubael, retired GM of Project 1999, and Llandris, current Server Guide of Project 1999.

Since this is lawyer-quest and all, I have included evidence along with my proposal for the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened, with the additional stipulation that their guild leaders and officers be formally censored from forming, leading or organizing another guild on this server, with any attempts at 'shadow leadership' or the formation of 'unofficial' guilds resulting in additional disciplinary action, not limited to suspension or banning of characters and/or accounts.

Please see the following threads as the initial evidence for this proposal:
Exhibit 1) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246016
Exhibit 2) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253736
Exhibit 3) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261775
Exhibit 4) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261899
Exhibit 5) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263081
Exhibit 6) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264102
Exhibit 7) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268708
Exhibit 8) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268709

Further addendum will be considered from witnesses who wish to come forth and present their testimony to be added into evidence for or against this proposal in this thread and will be accepted under the purview of any Guides who wishes to acknowledge this proposal officially.

Any personal attacks directed against me or that do not provide testimony for or against the Omega Proposal will not be taken into consideration.

[Phenyo]

drugs

[Detoxx]

Who are you

[Daldaen]

Anon poster is anon.

If you want to be taken seriously in Lawyerquest you need to have a reputation behind your name. Post from your main account and we can talk about disbanding A/A.

[Detoxx]

Im disbanding Aftermath when I get home. This rule was unknown to me and I feel I need to be held accountable for my guilds actions. Will Awakened follow suit?

[Bruno]

I like it. Will be following closely. Stay anon my friend.

[Pokesan]

forgot to logon Litigator?

[Maner]

In Reference to server rules 1-11 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299) You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

In accordance of rule 4.12 I hereby initiate The Omega Proposal: the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened for the habitual violation of Rule 4.12 under the Server Rules and Expectations set forth under the auspices of Derubael, retired GM of Project 1999, and Llandris, current Server Guide of Project 1999.

Since this is lawyer-quest and all, I have included evidence along with my proposal for the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened, with the additional stipulation that their guild leaders and officers be formally censored from forming, leading or organizing another guild on this server, with any attempts at 'shadow leadership' or the formation of 'unofficial' guilds resulting in additional disciplinary action, not limited to suspension or banning of characters and/or accounts.

Please see the following threads as the initial evidence for this proposal:
Exhibit 1) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246016
Exhibit 2) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253736
Exhibit 3) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261775
Exhibit 4) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261899
Exhibit 5) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263081
Exhibit 6) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264102
Exhibit 7) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268708
Exhibit 8) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268709

Further addendum will be considered from witnesses who wish to come forth and present their testimony to be added into evidence for or against this proposal in this thread and will be accepted under the purview of any Guides who wishes to acknowledge this proposal officially.

Any personal attacks directed against me or that do not provide testimony for or against the Omega Proposal will not be taken into consideration.


You would make a terrible lawyer. Using evidence against one group to prove the wrongdoing of another is a fallacy.

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPsYKDKCo6w

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IHnBafsyIU

[skarlorn]

Im disbanding Aftermath when I get home. This rule was unknown to me and I feel I need to be held accountable for my guilds actions. Will Awakened follow suit?

Thank you.

[Erati]

I welcome my retirement- lock me up!

[skarlorn]

Looks good. From all ends! Looks like we're finally moving to a healthy raid scene.

Voting 5 Stars, and let's give Rogean a call to tell him about the exciting new Proposal!

[Sadiki]

Please stop this nonsense. If we're disbanding one guild we need to disband them all. Let's start this server over from scratch.

[Swish]

In Reference to server rules 1-11 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299) You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

In accordance of rule 4.12 I hereby initiate The Omega Proposal: the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened for the habitual violation of Rule 4.12 under the Server Rules and Expectations set forth under the auspices of Derubael, retired GM of Project 1999, and Llandris, current Server Guide of Project 1999.

Since this is lawyer-quest and all, I have included evidence along with my proposal for the immediate disbandment of the guilds Aftermath and Awakened, with the additional stipulation that their guild leaders and officers be formally censored from forming, leading or organizing another guild on this server, with any attempts at 'shadow leadership' or the formation of 'unofficial' guilds resulting in additional disciplinary action, not limited to suspension or banning of characters and/or accounts.

Please see the following threads as the initial evidence for this proposal:
Exhibit 1) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246016
Exhibit 2) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253736
Exhibit 3) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261775
Exhibit 4) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261899
Exhibit 5) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263081
Exhibit 6) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264102
Exhibit 7) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268708
Exhibit 8) https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268709

Further addendum will be considered from witnesses who wish to come forth and present their testimony to be added into evidence for or against this proposal in this thread and will be accepted under the purview of any Guides who wishes to acknowledge this proposal officially.

Any personal attacks directed against me or that do not provide testimony for or against the Omega Proposal will not be taken into consideration.

This is why written rules are bad. Go outside.

[Comoc1]

Just be happy we get suspended and you casuals get free pixels. 2/3 of am suspensions were conflicts with aw. Also be happy Sirken sat on our suspension until he had one to give to Awakened.

Only then did he simultaneously press both suspension post buttons at the exact same second, granting not one, but two repops to you all.

[Orloc]

You would make a terrible lawyer. Using evidence against one group to prove the wrongdoing of another is a fallacy.

This is a logical fallacy - courts of law are not about proofing ones logic. They are about presenting ones argument in a way which sways the juries perspective on the issue resulting in a resolution.

This man is on the right track.

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact ).

I have had many encounters with A/A - and EVEN YOUR MEMBERS acknowledge how shitty some of the people you harbor are.

There are plenty of nice folks who really do want to share / help foster a more cooperative positive community on p99 - but have caved under the pressure A/A puts on the server and have joined your ranks for lack of a "better alternative" to achieve their personal goals.

Lets get the facts straight =) A/A has the horrible reputation they have for a reason- and there are plenty of documented instances / reoccurring events that even GM's have called out in your numerous bans.

Integrity = not the goals you achieve , but how you go about achieving them.

So have some - and admit where you could improve / cooperate.

Yours truly,
That "casual" guy who is probably a better player than half the zerg force A/A uses to keel there merbs =)

[Swish]

Just be happy we get suspended and you casuals get free pixels. 2/3 of am suspensions were conflicts with aw. Also be happy Sirken sat on our suspension until he had one to give to Awakened.

Only then did he simultaneously press both suspension post buttons at the exact same second, granting not one, but two repops to you all.

Stop being toxic (that goes for everyone involved in that raid scene mess).

[skarlorn]

Please stop this nonsense. If we're disbanding one guild we need to disband them all. Let's start this server over from scratch.

well said!!!!

i for one would donate my menagerie of charactres to the dumpstre fire

[Pokesan]

well said!!!!

i for one would donate my menagerie of charactres to the dumpstre fire

burnt offerings to please rogean

[Maner]

This is a logical fallacy - courts of law are not about proofing ones logic. They are about presenting ones argument in a way which sways the juries perspective on the issue resulting in a resolution.

This man is on the right track.

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact ).

I have had many encounters with A/A - and EVEN YOUR MEMBERS acknowledge how shitty some of the people you harbor are.

There are plenty of nice folks who really do want to share / help foster a more cooperative positive community on p99 - but have caved under the pressure A/A puts on the server and have joined your ranks for lack of a "better alternative" to achieve their personal goals.

Lets get the facts straight =) A/A has the horrible reputation they have for a reason- and there are plenty of documented instances / reoccurring events that even GM's have called out in your numerous bans.

Integrity = not the goals you achieve , but how you go about achieving them.

So have some - and admit where you could improve / cooperate.

Yours truly,
That "casual" guy who is probably a better player than half the zerg force A/A uses to keel there merbs =)

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.

[Bones]

Just be happy we get suspended and you casuals get free pixels
Yeah the casuals are zoning into ToV right now and sirken is summoning dragons to their raid groups and deathtouching them for free loot

you guys are missing out

[Lhancelot]

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.

I was going to be insultive and rude, but instead have opted to simply express my irrelevant opinion. This sounds bad, Maner. You are better than this.

[Pokesan]

I was going to be insultive and rude, but instead have opted to simply express my irrelevant opinion. This sounds bad, Maner. You are better than this.

no, he's not.

[temporalrift]

Who are you

Not willing to disclose my identity for fear of reprisal. Also not going to provide you with any information about myself as this post is about your guilds and Awakened misdeeds, not my own. You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!

Anon poster is anon.

If you want to be taken seriously in Lawyerquest you need to have a reputation behind your name. Post from your main account and we can talk about disbanding A/A.

Why do you want to know who I am so badly? Is it so you harass me in game, breaking another server rule, and attempt to ruin my gaming experience like you have proven so capable of doing for so many others? Most likely! Some more evidence to support my proposal.

Im disbanding Aftermath when I get home. This rule was unknown to me and I feel I need to be held accountable for my guilds actions. Will Awakened follow suit?

The idea of this proposal is to have the server Administrators be the ones to disband your guild and censor you and your officers as well as the GM and officers of Awakened. In order to set a precedent that your shitty behavior will not be tolerated. If you were to disband your guild now it would render any potential judgement of the retribution we seek for you and your ilk moot.

You would make a terrible lawyer. Using evidence against one group to prove the wrongdoing of another is a fallacy.

The evidence implicates both Awakened and Afterlife. Their members both have track records of breaking the rules in their current incarnations. Additionally their members actions while members of other guilds have proven my point over time that they habitually violate the rules of the server. I guess the Administrators of the server perceive this to be 'Classic EverQuest'?

Please stop this nonsense. If we're disbanding one guild we need to disband them all. Let's start this server over from scratch.

Indeed, the thought did cross my mind regarding disbanding all guilds as it is inherently clear that once the abused take the reins they tend to become the abusers, but I believe this will set the precedent that the behavior of these guilds (Awakened and Afterlife) is unacceptable and should any future guilds behave in the same nature, they too, along with their officers and guild leaders should be censored from forming their own guilds or raiding as their behavior trickles down to their members. It all starts at the top. However, I don't know if starting the server over from scratch makes so much sense. These same pieces of shit will just shit all over everyone as a level 35 in lguk instead of as a level 60 in tov. So no, I'll pass on that.

Just be happy we get suspended and you casuals get free pixels. 2/3 of am suspensions were conflicts with aw. Also be happy Sirken sat on our suspension until he had one to give to Awakened.

Only then did he simultaneously press both suspension post buttons at the exact same second, granting not one, but two repops to you all.

With this logic, one can only wonder why not a single positive post has been volunteered in context of defending your guild or Awakened. This isn't about you guys getting pixels over everyone else, it's about your guilds consistently breaking the rules of the server, so stop breaking the rules.

[derpcake]

noone important gives a fuck and nothing is going to change

trying to prevent further pointless keyboard wear on your behalf here

[Orloc]

Which is why you object on grounds of relevance. You're arguement is the same as finding someone guilty because someone else like him committed a crime in the past. A/A are two different entireties and youre combining their offenses which is a fallacy and just plain dumb.

You say things like I have had interactions with, and our members, but now one knows who you are and what guild you're referring to. The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything.

It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game. There is a very obvious skill cap in EQ and it doesn't take anything resembling a good gamer to reach that cap. No one is pressuring you to do or not to do anything. The bar is there and is easily reachable for anyone wanting to start raiding. The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar. You would rather blame the people who do commit stupid amounts of time to tracking because you can't. The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene.


I'll address these one at a time - putting aside the name calling - which I wont take any offense to as you clearly misunderstood my intent.

"A/A are two different entireties" (entities) Absolutely - but the represent the same ideal and thus are equally relevant here.

"The horrible reputation you speak of is due to people like you reading the forums and having biased opinions from the onset. Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything. " - I have played here since 2011, I left the server because of guilds "like" A/A ( back then it was TMO et al ). I am sure some names have changed but again - see point 1

"Just logging onto the server doesn't entitle you to anything." - this one is funny, and very presumptuous. All people put time into things they care about - I have had all the same sleepless nights camping things as the rest of any serious EverQuest player - Everyone has equal entitlement - we all earn our lewts no one "owns" anything except for the people facilitating this wonderful game we all are trying to get the most out of. I hope you let that one sink in a bit.

"It's funny that you think there are "Better" players in this game." - is this so funny? Everyone who reads this I am sure has grouped with "good" and "not so good" players from every class there is. Sure a lot of the mechanics in EQ are straight forward and very well known - but there is a certain finesse and knowledge base required to be "Great" - along with countless hours of farming gears.

"The problem is people like you don't want to even try reaching that bar" - You don't know anything about me - or the effort I put into everything I do - I am also not sure what imaginary bar you are speaking about? There are very concrete requirements to complete raid content.

And finally

"The problem is your idea of a better alternative is only better for you and the people like you. who like you refuse to commit the time to compete in the raid scene." - My (I speak for more than myself) Idea of better involved a less toxic - more productive - generally healthier community which cooperated with each other. I think you would be hard pressed to find evidence against this being a good thing.


You have made my point very clear - and for that I thank you.

I will leave you with this.

"With great power - comes great responsibility" - Awakened and Aftermath are two of the strongest guilds on the server and in a large way shape the ecosystem. The entire community has been asking ( begging ? ) for a more equal playing field for years now. It has been met with trolls - blatant refusal and general dismissal.

This speaks to the perceived character and general reputation people have come to expect from A/A - I think this forum thread represents a continued disapproval from the larger community and deserves to be heard and acted upon.

[t3kn34k]

The evidence implicates both Awakened and Afterlife.
both Awakened and Afterlife

http://i.imgur.com/sQXSVj5.jpg

For what it's worth, I support rap battles to determine FTE

[Swish]

Yeah the casuals are zoning into ToV right now and sirken is summoning dragons to their raid groups and deathtouching them for free loot

you guys are missing out

Must admit I chuckled :D

[kotton05]

For what it's worth, I support rap battles to determine FTE

Only during your playtime right? ..|..

[Comoc1]

To the gentlemen who referenced "you casuals". I didn't know logging on every day - playing for 4-6 hours and all day on the weekend put me in this bucket. ( seems pretty hardcore in fact )

Bro if you put that much time in and choose not to raid that's on you. Seriously.

Stop being toxic (that goes for everyone involved in that raid scene mess).

Nothing toxic about my statement. Period.

[Swish]

Would you say you were complaining about the imbalance of how the staff are handling the 2 guilds competing petitions tough? Does that promote a healthier raid scene?

[kotton05]

Sirken for the love of god just make it the Wild West in ToV / vp

[Comoc1]

Swish, no complaints at all. If am or aw are suspended individually the other guild will dominate - that's where there is an imbalance. AM participated in the raid agreement the last time aw was suspended, but it's not guarnteed we'd do it again.

It's really a win win for everybody. The casuals get free reign for 2 cycles and am/aw are at parody because we're both suspended.

[Swish]

I think it's great that there's competition, nice that the 2 guilds will never merge, and stuff like that. Never been in either, never would as I just don't have the time to commit and enjoy it.

But really, this "eye for an eye" shit really isn't good for P99. At what point will both guilds be satisfied with justice AND not look to call the other out again? I get the feeling that shittyness resides in both camps, and until offending players/raid leaders/pullers/FTE'ers are suspended that this will go in circles for years potentially til everyone's had enough.

[skarlorn]

wow there are actually some sickos making well thought out replies to this thread

pokesan please weigh in on this

[Pokesan]

wow there are actually some sickos making well thought out replies to this thread

pokesan please weigh in on this

no

here's this instead https://twitter.com/zeldawilliams/status/844723854748508160

[Secrets]

If they get disbanded forcefully, what's stopping them from continuing without a guild tag?

And what's stopping them from joining other guilds and causing the same drama?

[skarlorn]

If they get disbanded forcefully, what's stopping them from continuing without a guild tag?

And what's stopping them from joining other guilds and causing the same drama?

perma ban the toons secrets

[temporalrift]

If they get disbanded forcefully, what's stopping them from continuing without a guild tag?

And what's stopping them from joining other guilds and causing the same drama?

A great question, which I considered and addressed in my original post:

...the additional stipulation that their guild leaders and officers be formally censored from forming, leading or organizing another guild on this server, with any attempts at 'shadow leadership' or the formation of 'unofficial' guilds resulting in additional disciplinary action, not limited to suspension or banning of characters and/or accounts...

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with what this entails, as such the stipulation is meaningless if it is impossible or even unfeasible to enforce, considering those who will be enforcing this stipulation are volunteers, their time will be limited, as is the resources of the administrators who provide us with great server. The concept addresses your concern nonetheless and would make those who are subject to the Omega Proposal weary of committing more violations for fear that they will lose their characters and or accounts. Basically the proposal aims at removing the authority of decision making from those who have proven that they are incapable of making decisions within the given ruleset and rather than merely banning them for their offenses, providing them with the opportunity to keep playing the game and enjoying it so long as they not attempt to grab the power which they have lost in deserving fashion.

Incidentally the power this proposal aims to depose may be the only thing these types of individuals enjoy about this game. If that is the case it means the server administrators believe that this type of gamer is a necessary part of the Classic EverQuest experience and having played and loved this era of EverQuest I see the validity of that point and I reticently agree that they may be right. If that is the mindset of the Administrators then please remove all the rules of this server and allow these types of individuals to thrive in the truly anarchistic environment they desire, do not give us constructs which are not enforced.

[derpcake]

If they get disbanded forcefully, what's stopping them from continuing without a guild tag?

And what's stopping them from joining other guilds and causing the same drama?

hour 1 you disband the top 5 guilds

hour 12 you ban everyone from the top 3 guilds

after 24 more hours of hilariously salty & griefers FQ you wipe the entire fucking thing

[dafier]

The best lawyering left when BDA left. Now all you have is fake news.

[Papa]

[QUOTE=Swish;2492612]
But really, this "eye for an eye" shit really isn't good for P99. At what point will both guilds be satisfied with justice AND not look to call the other out again? /QUOTE]

tbqh i thoroughly enjoy how much they shit up the raid scene as an outside observer who no longer participates in p99 raiding

casual life

[Spyder73]

The best lawyering left when BDA left. Now all you have is fake news.

Detoxx is the Trump of P99

Breaken the Hillary of P99