The HYPOCRISY is overwhelming

[DemandFlannigan]

So a couple days ago, my account was suspended for KSing. Let me explain the scenario, because this is very important to the point i'm about to make.

I was in oasis, helping a group leveling at the croc camp. P1 to be exact. before I got there, a necro outside the group first trained the group with a sand giant. then he was taking mobs from their camp (from what I hear, I was not there to confirm this) But since I was there, I saw him sneaking mobs off. One in particular, a croc ran right over the group members who were sitting down medding. The necro pulls this mob. I pulled it back and killed it. So he reported me, and I got suspended for KSing.

Just now, a member of my guild was in CoM, and he pulls a mob from some camp because he didn't see anyone around. He kills it, and pulls another. After he pulled the second he sees messages raging on him for pulling the mob from their camp. Before he even knows what happened, boom, he's suspended.

So is it just the first person to report in any situation is the one who wins, and gets the other suspended? Or do the GMs just not care to look into matters before they come down with the ban hammer?

Yeah I'm upset. But I'm also very curious as to how the decision is made to suspend someone, since these two scenarios are on the opposite sides of the same point. Yet both sides respectively get suspended.

[skarlorn]

i know this is RNF but you seem like you could use some help so I'll put away my pugilist bindings

here's the best thing you can do....

1. stop expecting consistent judgment from GMs
2. curry favor with GMs by befriending them, flattering them (hi sirken)
3. use this bias for your own advantage

alternative option is to buy a few TBs HD storage so you can have fraps running permanently, then mount a user run investigation into the hypocrisy of Kill Steal judgments made by a volunteer team of GMs on a private emulator running a classic* version of Everquest in the year of our lord 2017, edit together the videos and put a petition in on the forums and receive private ridicule in rog-sirk-haynar-nilbog Skype chats where they call you a beefy chode and record video of themselves squatting over pictures of your petition and then defecating onto it and then they will leak these logs through Greengrocer and pretty soon you'll have a melt down, be permabanned, then start the long process of being a VPN troll operating under aliases (hi gaffin) to chase your sickness

[DemandFlannigan]

I don't care enough to do all that. Just making a point. I've heard of the GMs picking favorites and taking sides, making rash decisions. just never experienced it myself in the 3 years ive been on this server until now.

And the way these guys are acting, I don't see myself befriending anyone.

[NegaStoat]

From my limited experience with being involved with a KS / camp dispute situation, the GM in question...

1) Looked at the chat logs to see if the players involved tried communicating with each other in regards to the situation.
2) Determined if the situation was still ongoing (for me it was).
3) Teleported in w/ GM invisibility going on so they could see for themselves what was up.
4) Took matters into hand and rendered a judgement.

In my particular case it was a camp dispute where I had 4 mobs that spawned next to each other in an open world setting all broken to singles with a long stretch of time where none were spawned at all for my med breaks, and an incredible douche walked up and parked themselves to start taking spawns. This was Butcherblock, not OOT.

Anyway, the GM assessed the situation by watching what was going down and doing a review of the combat logs, and told me that open world outdoor mobs can only be 'camped' by a single spawn by a single player, and that I had to share. I had even pointed out other spawns that were not being camped and were available for the douche to hunt in a whisper to that player, but no dice. The GM agreed that the other player was being unreasonable but was working within the limit of the rules, so nothing was to be done.

I think 60 min later I trained and killed the player, and killed them again a 2nd and 3rd time later that evening with a clever use of game mechanics and they logged for the day, but that's not a part of the topic at hand.

The point is, no one would be banned unless tangible evidence of being an ass and breaking the rules was there for the GM to find.

[Llandris]

Just now, a member of my guild was in CoM, and he pulls a mob from some camp because he didn't see anyone around. He kills it, and pulls another. After he pulled the second he sees messages raging on him for pulling the mob from their camp. Before he even knows what happened, boom, he's suspended.

I've been the only Guide on today, have not seen 1 CoM petition nor have suspended anyone today.

i know this is RNF but you seem like you could use some help so I'll put away my pugilist bindings

here's the best thing you can do....

1. stop expecting consistent judgment from GMs
2. curry favor with GMs by befriending them, flattering them (hi sirken)
3. use this bias for your own advantage

alternative option is to buy a few TBs HD storage so you can have fraps running permanently, then mount a user run investigation into the hypocrisy of Kill Steal judgments made by a volunteer team of GMs on a private emulator running a classic* version of Everquest in the year of our lord 2017, edit together the videos and put a petition in on the forums and receive private ridicule in rog-sirk-haynar-nilbog Skype chats where they call you a beefy chode and record video of themselves squatting over pictures of your petition and then defecating onto it and then they will leak these logs through Greengrocer and pretty soon you'll have a melt down, be permabanned, then start the long process of being a VPN troll operating under aliases (hi gaffin) to chase your sickness

Lol

[DemandFlannigan]

Nah I mean, technically in my situation, I did KS that mob from the necro. So I accept my suspension no problem. I did something against the rules. But my guildy had no right to be suspended.

And let me check to make sure it was CoM, I might have read that wrong.

[Pokesan]

can i have a suspension

[indiscriminate_hater]

confirmed A/A alts leveling due to raid suspension

that or BDA

[maskedmelon]

i never seen anyone get suspended for camp disputes or even reprimanded and i pulled a lot of mobs.

[skarlorn]

can i have a suspension

you know it only takes a word of power spoken with focused intent, brother

[maskedmelon]

what if it spoke lovingly?

[skarlorn]

it's still a suspension on p99 forums!

[Dreenk317]

i never seen anyone get suspended for camp disputes or even reprimanded and i pulled a lot of mobs.

Three of my friends recently went to kaesora for xalgoz teeth. When they got to the church, no one was inside the main room, and all the mobs were up (except xalgoz or his ph, but my friends had never been to the camp and were unaware he was on a different timer). They began killing things and noticed an AFK and FD'ed be romanced downstairs in the church. Asked in say if the necro was camping xalgoz and got no response.

Back upstairs, xalgoz pops and they engage, only to have the necro attack, pull agro, get the kill and berate them for KS'ing. (One of my friends looted a tooth off this corpse)

They talk, make it clear they are only their for teeth and thought he was afk and had asked in say, in range of him, and gotten no response. They work it out that xalgoz belongs to the necro and they are their for teeth only.

Next xalgoz pops, necro engages, is killing, gets the mob down to 60 ish percent and my warrior friend engages, in his mind he's helping, and has no chance at stealing the kill considering he started with the mob almost at half life. Xalgoz dies, necro got the kill/loot/exp. And a GM shows up three minutes later and insta bans my warrior friend for KS'ing. Then the next day, my friend that looted the tooth gets banned for ninja looting.


In my opinion this was a drastic over reaction. The bans were appealed and lifted after the logs were reviewed. But seems like someone is a little bit ban happy and not taking the time to actually look at logs or talk to players about the disputes in question before rendering judgement.

[Break]

I've been the only Guide on today, have not seen 1 CoM petition nor have suspended anyone today.



Lol

Did someone say forum drama? Well that's interesting to hear only one GM was working tonight and it wasn't Lirin, because the guy who claimed to petition (ninjawar) did so to everyone in /say. ;)

This is going to be longer than it should be but when it comes to forum drama, 1999-2003 was where it was at for me and I'm honored to help out, if for no other reason to add my own stream to this little puddle here as some kind of homage to flames of yore. Let's just say, i'm honored to be here with you all today, despite the circumstances. Maybe I'm just a troublemaker, I don't know, you can tell me.

So to start, It was all happening so fast...

I installed the game a week or two ago after not playing EQ1 for >10 years. After much grouping and some bard aoe'ing I went to CoM because I was the right level finally, and it was probably my favorite Kunark leveling-zone back in the day. So far in p1999, it had all been building up to that point. I very quickly found a group in CoM (they must be short bards there, wink wink) and their puller left so I volunteered. Excited like Cartman was in Casa Bonita to visit his favorite old rides again, I began to pull mobs out of the temple near the zone line. But as any precarious tale goes, we soon we ran out of mobs and began negotiating pathways that would hopefully lead to more mobs, like any good 'Murican would. You must understand back in the day CoM on live was mostly deserted when I was there and that was mostly just for the reavers anyway, so I never really took much of the zone in besides that awesome huge temple and walkway up in the sky which were bad-ass back then. My ignorance is quickly leading to my downfall as you will see!

Now, I wont contest mobs were stolen, if they were claiming those then fine, but it was an honest mistake. So I had no idea what was camped, what the camps were called, etc, and I admit in my excitement I was a little liberal in my exploration and pulling. The first 'stolen' mob I pulled disappeared on the way back, I first thought maybe it glitched out, that it got ganked from my pull or maybe I pulled someone's camp. If the latter, I certainly wasn't going to repeat the affair. More importantly, as common sense dictates, if they were willing to perform what appears to be an act of KSing themselves, they surely have the ability to warn me if they can? or at least the zone directly, that the last gel was theirs? Right? guys?

Things were nice and quiet so after doing a local search of the most familiar terrain in order to grab respawns, and finding none, I went back to the land of the infamous gels and tried again, found one and pulled it (he admits it!). Before the group had fully engaged the second gel, ninjawar comes over telling us 'anyone who touches that mob is banned' or something to that effect. We kill it fairly fast, I'm sure most of my group was dumbfounded, but I recognized what he must have been referring to, so I started to apologize/see what the guy's deal was. But by the time the mob was dead, he had made his spiel and run off already. During the combat he had said he had submitted a petition and we're all in big trouble! Then, not even 15 whole seconds after the mob dies, as I begin typing out ninjawar a tell to open treaty negotiations and begin to parley, Lirin appears on the corpse of the mob.

While the group was still confused about what ninjawar was talking about, Lirin says in effect in /say: "Yeah I saw the KS %t and i'm going to suspend you for 7 days". I sent him one message to the effect of "uhh can you hear me out?" and all I got back was "sorry" then my poor bard was floating into the ether.

So it's funny in a sad way if you think about that ninjawar said absolutely nothing to me in tells, say or /ooc or anything else, except for his angry burst of "You're all banned, you're so banned!" or whatever angry riff he wrote in /say. Neither did the GM send me any tells except for one word. This whole timeline from mob #1 engaged to suspended took maybe 3-4 minutes tops. Ninjawar's first line of communication was in effect "hey asswipe, you're so banned!", in /say no less, Lirin's first line was to the effect of "you're so suspended for 7 days!". That's some swift hard justice! I wonder if Abashi would being rolling in his grave (May he rest in peace) if he knew about this.

Anyway, besides GMs who may or may not be dispensing "justice" on their own behalf in blind rages or who have their friends nearby who will, you have another problem: You apparently have some players that will /"petition" at the drop of a hat without first even opening a line of dialogue with the other party. I never actually saw that behavior myself from normal players as I was leveling so I think it was probably just a particularly angry neckbeard in a tantrum with a pocket GM (or he is Lirin).

Me? I may be back one day, but for now i'll just be a drifter, knowing I did more in 2 weeks than I did in a year in '99, and I even helped spark some forum drama. My only regret was not getting to Vox, but this interruption was probably for the best. Peace out for now! Kudos to the team behind making p1999.

[Swish]

Three of my friends recently went to kaesora for xalgoz teeth. When they got to the church, no one was inside the main room, and all the mobs were up (except xalgoz or his ph, but my friends had never been to the camp and were unaware he was on a different timer). They began killing things and noticed an AFK and FD'ed be romanced downstairs in the church. Asked in say if the necro was camping xalgoz and got no response.

Back upstairs, xalgoz pops and they engage, only to have the necro attack, pull agro, get the kill and berate them for KS'ing. (One of my friends looted a tooth off this corpse)

They talk, make it clear they are only their for teeth and thought he was afk and had asked in say, in range of him, and gotten no response. They work it out that xalgoz belongs to the necro and they are their for teeth only.

Next xalgoz pops, necro engages, is killing, gets the mob down to 60 ish percent and my warrior friend engages, in his mind he's helping, and has no chance at stealing the kill considering he started with the mob almost at half life. Xalgoz dies, necro got the kill/loot/exp. And a GM shows up three minutes later and insta bans my warrior friend for KS'ing. Then the next day, my friend that looted the tooth gets banned for ninja looting.


In my opinion this was a drastic over reaction. The bans were appealed and lifted after the logs were reviewed. But seems like someone is a little bit ban happy and not taking the time to actually look at logs or talk to players about the disputes in question before rendering judgement.

If she was still on the staff I'd say this was the work of Amelinda. But it isnt. Who could it be?

[Samoht]

I've had this same kind of crap happen to me. It makes it really discouraging to play here. I was root dotting trash in the yard in Unrest, particularly the lone ghoul that spawns in the back by himself. It was really easy AFK exp on my high teenies druid.

A chanter comes along and decides they're going to make that particular ghoul their pet. Even though it's obviously being killed and was less than full health. My root breaks, but it's still dotted, so the chanter is using a dying ghoul as their pet. Eventually the charm breaks just before it dies, and I managed to nuke it to get the kill, but the worst part is what happened next:

I went about my business waiting for the respawn. The chanter stood there waiting, as well. As soon as the next one popped, they charmed that one as well. It's like wtf, this is the spawn I'm killing as soon as it repops and you think you have the right to charm it? The player refused to respond to me as to why they would not respect my camp.

I switched to another toon and killed everything as soon as it spawned. Not KSing. Just killing everything immediately.

Sirken shows up. Doesn't say a word to investigate or ask why. Just deathtouches me then disappears.

What's the moral of the story? Be the first to cry. There's no benefit here to trying to work things out with other players. There's no benefit in trying to take matters into your own hands. You just have to be the first to petition.

[Whirled]

I switched to another toon and killed everything as soon as it spawned. Not KSing. Just killing everything immediately.
.
I'm no lawyer, but I'd guess that this is where you went wrong.
Also, that is zone disruption, which I know is part of the PNP.

[Dronuspk]

I've been in situations where autistic tempers flared on both sides, trains were trained, mobs were stolen, shit was talked. Very rarely do the GM's suspend for that kind of stuff tbh (unless it's constant and zone disrupting... and even then it's a toss up). You must just not be very likable.

Also, Oasis is overrated as FUCK. Just don't go there. It's where the unintelligent level, like Dawn Believers. Or Clue.

[Samoht]

Also, that is zone disruption, which I know is part of the PNP.

Farming is less against the rules than using charm to steal EXP from another player. The difference was they cried to a GM, and the GM didn't put in any effort to rectify the situation in an amiable way.

[derpcake]

i hope noone here is donating for autism cures, it would deprive us of valuable threads such as this one

[Sorn]

I was in oasis, helping a group leveling at the croc camp. P1 to be exact. before I got there, a necro outside the group first trained the group with a sand giant. then he was taking mobs from their camp (from what I hear, I was not there to confirm this) But since I was there, I saw him sneaking mobs off. One in particular, a croc ran right over the group members who were sitting down medding. The necro pulls this mob. I pulled it back and killed it. So he reported me, and I got suspended for KSing.

Just now, a member of my guild was in CoM, and he pulls a mob from some camp because he didn't see anyone around. He kills it, and pulls another. After he pulled the second he sees messages raging on him for pulling the mob from their camp. Before he even knows what happened, boom, he's suspended.

Scenario 1: You are pulling roaming mobs in an outdoor zone
Rule: roamers in outdoor zones that aren't dungeons are FTE, not camps
Conclusion: The necro was perfectly in his rights to pull these mobs and the group did not have exclusive rights to all crocs pathing near that spot.

Scenario 2: You are pulling stationary mobs in a dungeon
Rule: stationary mobs in dungeons are camps, not FTE
Conclusion: that's a very prompt suspension and not something that'd ordinarily happen (Usually people yell at each other for a while and then nothing happens because no one's answering petitions at the time) but your guild member should've done a CC first to double check.

I'd actually say the second case involved one of those annoying petition-happy players who cry to a staff member rather than work things out with others, but I don't know that for sure since I was not there to witness this.

[maskedmelon]

ive had people retaliate by logging on a high level character to harass me. i never petitioned though, i just made a friend outta them, except one, he was a turd and hope he got banned. pretty poopy what that chanter did to you though :c I never done something like that and would not condone it :/

[Pokesan]

the croc situation sounds like BS, they don't agro on their own.

[Samoht]

Scenario 1: You are pulling roaming mobs in an outdoor zone
Rule: roamers in outdoor zones that aren't dungeons are FTE, not camps
Conclusion: The necro was perfectly in his rights to pull these mobs and the group did not have exclusive rights to all crocs pathing near that spot.

Your conclusion appears to be off assuming the crocs are hitting people that were sitting and the necro peeled them off as described below:

a croc ran right over the group members who were sitting down medding. The necro pulls this mob.

[Sorn]

Your conclusion appears to be off assuming the crocs are hitting people that were sitting and the necro peeled them off as described below:

The crocs seem KoS but they don't actually aggro on their own. If the group members were sitting down medding, the crocs were going about their business as usual.

[Comoc1]

I need names please.

[Lagaidh]

Uehara.

Hortense.

Albrecht.

These are names. Do with them what you will.

[Bruno]

People getting suspended in Oasis, Kaesora, CoM, and ToV. Shits classic as fuck. Makes me want to dust off the ole duck stick.

[Spyder73]

I have been told multiple times by the staff to cut the sh!t while in KC and I have never once been banned. As many of you know it can get a little crowded in KC and tensions can run high when there are not enough monsters to feed the XP machine...if you were suspended I imagine there is more to the story than you killing a single croc