Open Question to Blue's "Competitive" Raiders

[Ravager]

What is better about competition on Blue than competition on Red that makes you want to compete on Blue and not on Red?

[RedXIII]

What is better about competition on Blue than competition on Red that makes you want to compete on Blue and not on Red?

cry babies like you. I love to ruin your day. ;)

[maskedmelon]

what is better about posting on p99 forums than posting on phinny forums that make you want to post on p99? ^^

[Ravager]

what is better about posting on p99 forums than posting on phinny forums that make you want to post on p99? ^^

I don't play on Phinny, so why would I post there?

[khanable]

surely this will be the thread to bring people back to red

[Ravager]

I'm the new champion for Red.

[necro316]

for me personally, I love the challenge of not knowing. Sitting on that starting line, for anywhere up to 1minute to 16hours, it's thrilling. I'll be there for 4-5 hours straight and I know any second the mob will spawn and the race is on. It's so much fun to just stare at my screen and wait in anticipation. I get to do this with multiple mobs a week, it's a great use of my time. When I do get that <FTE> message on an important mob like Gozzrem or Sevalak, and we pull that mob in to the camp, and i've spent 11 hours tracking it staring at my screen, and it drops some awesome loot for my guild that will really help us progress in the future. It's quite the feeling wouldn't change it for the world.

[Papa]

#rootthedragons #makeeverquestclassicagain

[Nitsude]

Death in EQ sucks. EQ PvP can be frustrating, because the game wasn't tuned around PvP balance. If someone wants to be a huge dick to you and inconvenience you it's very easy for them to do so in EQ PvP. This is why most people don't play on Red, and won't try it.

If Red was more like Rallos Zek was in '99 to '04, with top raiding guilds using PvP as politics instead of just rampant PvP, p99 Red would be far more successful, imo. TL;DR, EQ PvP is too unforgiving and frustrating for people who don't consider PvP their primary reason for playing.

[bigjerry]

hey guys im not gonna read it but let's have a good clean page 2

[Lojik]

I just don't think eq pvp is appealing... the % of p99ers who play red v. the % of eqers that were on a pvp server around 2000 are about the same. I think it's even worse on a stagnant server, and the effect compounds because people don't want to level on an empty box.

A fresh red server that was classic only would probs get a good pop.

[Naethyn]

For a bunch of people on blue it is about watching Detoxx lose/rage instead of pixels. Most of the top end would be in the same guild holding hands, bored, with a giant rotation if he has retired with Forsaken.

[kotton05]

I was apart of the seb battle of ages that jeremy has a video of stashed somewhere along with sirken. Was kind of cool def not the vibe most blues can stand for long.

[SoekiWiz]

Sitting on that starting line, for anywhere up to 1minute to 16hours, it's thrilling.

Can't tell if trolling or demented.

I was watching Trakanon last night for a couple of hours. Wanted to shoot myself in the face.

[Lemonhead]

Has red ever been truly competitive at the high end? In the years I've been around, it's always been 1 top guild with a few "pvp" guilds that dont raid really.

Group vs group or Raid vs raid actually sounds really cool, and could be balanced, albeit chaotic. For this to be truely great, you need 2 guilds on equal-ish footing though. Seems like such a waste to not have this happen. When populated, the top guild should have split, in an epic draft and fight, just for damn fun of it.

[JurisDictum]

Has red ever been truly competitive at the high end? In the years I've been around, it's always been 1 top guild with a few "pvp" guilds that dont raid really.

Group vs group or Raid vs raid actually sounds really cool, and could be balanced, albeit chaotic. For this to be truely great, you need 2 guilds on equal-ish footing though. Seems like such a waste to not have this happen. When populated, the top guild should have split, in an epic draft and fight, just for damn fun of it.

And that's why they should allow transfers.

[Transylvania]

Moving to Red immediately. My plan: to gain 60 asap and get pk'ed several times per hour and corpse camped.

[JurisDictum]

Moving to Red immediately. My plan: to gain 60 asap and get pk'ed several times per hour and corpse camped.

That's called "competition" over there.

[Tasslehofp99]

What is better about competition on Blue than competition on Red that makes you want to compete on Blue and not on Red?

The players/community of red was absolute dog shit. I tried it up to lvl 54 and came across like 3 people I would consider normal. The global ooc is aids too.

[mickmoranis]

guys can we try again on page 3 please, ill be in other threads not reading this one though.

[jakerees]

Played on red awhile back. Never dealt with any griefers or corpse campers. Never actually got killed at all by another player. That's heir problem rightness now. Their players can respond to people who say they dont want to play there and get griefed by assholes by saying that doesn't happen anymore, because it doesn't. But if they actually succeeded in getting people to play red and doubled or tripled the population, you would start to see more of that shit.

[Metalopolis]

Has red ever been truly competitive at the high end? In the years I've been around, it's always been 1 top guild with a few "pvp" guilds that dont raid really.

Group vs group or Raid vs raid actually sounds really cool, and could be balanced, albeit chaotic. For this to be truely great, you need 2 guilds on equal-ish footing though. Seems like such a waste to not have this happen. When populated, the top guild should have split, in an epic draft and fight, just for damn fun of it.

This is why EQ PvP was actually pretty great during the classic era. On Tallon Zek, for example, you always had two "Tier 1" guilds that were basically neck and neck, with anywhere from 3 to 6 "Tier 2" guilds chomping at the bit.

Velious is the beginning of the end of EQ PvP, in my opinion. NToV gear is so much stronger than anything that it totally upsets the balance. With 100HP and 15sv all on every item slot, there's little a Kunark-geared player can do to compete.

[Lhancelot]

for me personally, I love the challenge of not knowing. Sitting on that starting line, for anywhere up to 1minute to 16hours, it's thrilling. I'll be there for 4-5 hours straight and I know any second the mob will spawn and the race is on. It's so much fun to just stare at my screen and wait in anticipation. I get to do this with multiple mobs a week, it's a great use of my time. When I do get that <FTE> message on an important mob like Gozzrem or Sevalak, and we pull that mob in to the camp, and i've spent 11 hours tracking it staring at my screen, and it drops some awesome loot for my guild that will really help us progress in the future. It's quite the feeling wouldn't change it for the world.

This is a post lathered with thick juicy satire. 10/10.

[Fifield]

For a bunch of people on blue it is about watching Detoxx lose/rage instead of pixels. Most of the top end would be in the same guild holding hands, bored, with a giant rotation if he has retired with Forsaken.

I mean, I am in his guild and I play for this same reason! Love getting him riled up, though he doesn't as much anymore. he's tamed down.

You play for the people, the poopsock and the rest just are the shit we put up with. If Detoxx wasnt so fun to game with we wouldn't have half the members we do.

I let Detoxx die ( unintentionally ) probably 2-3 times a night when we play DAOC, i always get "your the worst healer around" lol,

[Swish]

This is why EQ PvP was actually pretty great during the classic era. On Tallon Zek, for example, you always had two "Tier 1" guilds that were basically neck and neck, with anywhere from 3 to 6 "Tier 2" guilds chomping at the bit.

Velious is the beginning of the end of EQ PvP, in my opinion. NToV gear is so much stronger than anything that it totally upsets the balance. With 100HP and 15sv all on every item slot, there's little a Kunark-geared player can do to compete.

Unless you're Ragnaros

[Damn]

This is why EQ PvP was actually pretty great during the classic era. On Tallon Zek, for example, you always had two "Tier 1" guilds that were basically neck and neck, with anywhere from 3 to 6 "Tier 2" guilds chomping at the bit.

Velious is the beginning of the end of EQ PvP, in my opinion. NToV gear is so much stronger than anything that it totally upsets the balance. With 100HP and 15sv all on every item slot, there's little a Kunark-geared player can do to compete.

This^

The only difference is on r99 there's always going to be one top end guild because of the nature of everquest there's maybe 8-10 people in the top guild that enjoy pvp the rest are in for raids pixels protection etc

Its an oppressive an environment because of the nature of velious gear and the fact that on this server the smaller more pvp oriented guilds are generally outcasted because they're the vocal minority of people that want to play counterstrike with elves which in my opinion is the most fun way to play the game but apparently for alot of people its not and unfortunately they gravitate towards these bigger guilds

Its all a bandwagon and even with a wipe things wont change they're be a top end guild and 1-2 small pvp guilds red servers are a self repeating cycle especially when the same 200 people continue to play them in whatever iteration they may be in

[Bruno]

people dont play red because they get embarassed if they get "Yellow Texted"

its the dumbest non classic feature that discourages pvp and makes people not play red.

The biggest idiots in the history of red wanted it and they have long since quit, it encourages twinks killing players in rags over and over and it discourages people from fighting back because if you lose you get made fun of in SERVERWIDE OOC

another stupid non classic change.

I cannot agree with that, and probably most of the community disagree with you. Avoiding or getting yellow text adds excitement to pvp. It carried over from vz/tz emu which Sirken and a good chunk of red99ers came from.

http://i.imgur.com/ARyjOfr.jpg

vz/tz emu yellow text lulz I had saved.

People are just getting older and just don't want to deal with the inconvenience of eq pvp brings. Not to mention having to deal the upstanding citizens that play on the server.

[derpcake]

People are just getting older and just don't want to deal with the inconvenience of eq pvp brings. Not to mention having to deal the upstanding citizens that play on the server.

the inconvenience eq pvp brings is a burden on mature people?

unlike poopsocking shit for half a day?

lol the shit people here come up with, gold

[Ya momma]

I've raided blue. It's really not fun at all. It's a handful of super hardcore people that don't work or work from home. They're either streaming with Google Hangouts for other "watchers" to scream into an wakeup channel or their standing at a starting line to foot race. The footrace competition is only between a handful of these hardcore's, mostly the same ones every mob,and usually officers, leaders, and obviously the top DKP guys.

Once a dragon is up the batphones and wakeup channel get hit. You literally have minutes to show up before the raid target is dead. This means already at your computer usually and if you aren't already in position or have multiple max level toons to split positions, it ain't happening. It's a real bitch to be honest.

If you're able to participate in the "tracking" activities and kill some mobs your getting good DKP (tracking is worth X multiplier of points). Then you have to bid against the hardcore's with tons of alts. Mobs have wild variance on top of all that, so statistically it's almost impossible to get something considered good - best in slot.

...Then there is the price inflation and over camping of tradeables and non raid camps. Good luck.

I've been trying red. It's got a very hostile ooc with people that have been maxed out fighting each other for ever and have tons of resentment for one another. There's absolutely NO low level population. I'm not sure if they even get new people up, or if it's just cycles of alt twinks. I've been having to solo in empty zones my entire stay so far. There isn't even a market for gear.

[Bruno]

the inconvenience eq pvp brings is a burden on mature people?

unlike poopsocking shit for half a day?

lol the shit people here come up with, gold

You must be one of those upstanding citizens I was speaking about. Poor, uneducated, drug addict, with no critical thinking skills. I don't play here anymore either. I'm a Phinny casual. Currently enjoying instanced, drama free PoP. Anything else you want to embarrass yourself with?

[kotton05]

Poop socking lets you stay on your character. Being corpse camped or zone camped on red means you can't play at all due to a sociopath poopsocking you. red solves a lot of personal issue by grief.

[derpcake]

You must be one of those upstanding citizens I was speaking about. Poor, uneducated, drug addict, with no critical thinking skills. I don't play here anymore either. I'm a Phinny casual. Currently enjoying instanced, drama free PoP. Anything else you want to embarrass yourself with?

you sure aren't a loser thats quick to anger due to pent up frustration

i don't play EQ, but I'm happy to see there are still angry nerds that think they are the bigger man because playing on phinny, or whatever

thx for the entertainment and stay mad

[Expediency]

The number of "try red" posts lately is higher than the actual number of players on red. You guys are really desperate.

[Swish]

Being corpse camped or zone camped on red means you can't play at all due to a sociopath poopsocking you. red solves a lot of personal issue by grief.

Happened to me once since 2012, and it was pre "Loot and scoot"...announce LNS in OOC and you're free to loot your corpse and leave the zone. If the killer wants to ignore that they risk a suspension/ban.

So another perceived "peril" of red blown out of the water, come on down.

[Expediency]

Happened to me once since 2012, and it was pre "Loot and scoot"...announce LNS in OOC and you're free to loot your corpse and leave the zone. If the killer wants to ignore that they risk a suspension/ban.

So another perceived "peril" of red blown out of the water, come on down.

Thats quite a sanitized description. Here is a more accurate representation:

1. Roll a char, solo to teens because nobody plays red
2. Enter a common exp zone, hoping to find another soul, and finally get a duo.
3. Your duo is griefed by a char who had four years to gather equipment. If you are lucky he kills you, if unlucky you are rooted so a mob kills you
4. Either get your corpse camped, or skip this step and go to #5
5. Declare LNS in ooc, get mocked.

[kotton05]

Happened to me once since 2012, and it was pre "Loot and scoot"...announce LNS in OOC and you're free to loot your corpse and leave the zone. If the killer wants to ignore that they risk a suspension/ban.

So another perceived "peril" of red blown out of the water, come on down.

I had it happen a lot. Depends on what you're trying to achieve

Another thing is the guy with an account full of sk waiting to just log in and trim / by your mistmoore group. Don't get me wrong swish I enjoyed all of it

[kotton05]

Trim = harm touch thanks iphone

[Lhancelot]

I've raided blue. It's really not fun at all. It's a handful of super hardcore people that don't work or work from home. They're either streaming with Google Hangouts for other "watchers" to scream into an wakeup channel or their standing at a starting line to foot race. The footrace competition is only between a handful of these hardcore's, mostly the same ones every mob,and usually officers, leaders, and obviously the top DKP guys.

Once a dragon is up the batphones and wakeup channel get hit. You literally have minutes to show up before the raid target is dead. This means already at your computer usually and if you aren't already in position or have multiple max level toons to split positions, it ain't happening. It's a real bitch to be honest.

If you're able to participate in the "tracking" activities and kill some mobs your getting good DKP (tracking is worth X multiplier of points). Then you have to bid against the hardcore's with tons of alts. Mobs have wild variance on top of all that, so statistically it's almost impossible to get something considered good - best in slot.

...Then there is the price inflation and over camping of tradeables and non raid camps. Good luck.

I've been trying red. It's got a very hostile ooc with people that have been maxed out fighting each other for ever and have tons of resentment for one another. There's absolutely NO low level population. I'm not sure if they even get new people up, or if it's just cycles of alt twinks. I've been having to solo in empty zones my entire stay so far. There isn't even a market for gear.

My exact sentiment. I am not familiar with how red works, but everything you speak of concerning blue is how I perceive raiding here.

It's disappointing no doubt, and what I did once I became jaded with the raid scene was create new toons and level them doing things I missed on older toons. Now I do solo and grouping in lower levels, and hope to continue my soloing in higher levels, trying more challenging zones that I never been to.

I personally don't see how the raid scene on blue is fulfilling to the fringe raiders which is probably 90% of the raiders.

The 10% are hardcores that run and organize the raid guilds and as such they are the ones getting the majority of the pixels whether it's their mains or any one of their personal army of alts.

After about 2 months of seeing this process in action I understood raiding on blue wasn't for me. The level of greed astounded me, especially considering the gains are pixels.

I enjoyed reading your experience on red, only because I considered trying that too, but the lack of population has always discouraged me from bothering.

I will just stick to my plan on blue, leveling and grouping for fun, with the goal of soloing high level zones one day.

[TheDuck]

Unless you're anyone who is good


im a kunark geared monk, made cutter run away. one of the best geared rogues on red.



its still very skill based. if they suck they suck lol.

[Papa]

Happened to me once since 2012, and it was pre "Loot and scoot"...announce LNS in OOC and you're free to loot your corpse and leave the zone. If the killer wants to ignore that they risk a suspension/ban.

not classic

[ZiggyTheMuss]

My exact sentiment. I am not familiar with how red works, but everything you speak of concerning blue is how I perceive raiding here.

It's disappointing no doubt, and what I did once I became jaded with the raid scene was create new toons and level them doing things I missed on older toons. Now I do solo and grouping in lower levels, and hope to continue my soloing in higher levels, trying more challenging zones that I never been to.

I personally don't see how the raid scene on blue is fulfilling to the fringe raiders which is probably 90% of the raiders.

The 10% are hardcores that run and organize the raid guilds and as such they are the ones getting the majority of the pixels whether it's their mains or any one of their personal army of alts.

After about 2 months of seeing this process in action I understood raiding on blue wasn't for me. The level of greed astounded me, especially considering the gains are pixels.

I enjoyed reading your experience on red, only because I considered trying that too, but the lack of population has always discouraged me from bothering.

I will just stick to my plan on blue, leveling and grouping for fun, with the goal of soloing high level zones one day.

It's still possible to enjoy SOME raiding on blue as a casual. I just watch guild chat and show up for some of the smaller/quicker raid targets. I absolutely refuse to go for any mobs that require poopsocking. I remember in particular one time several guilds all stacking up at KC while Venril Sathir was in window, all of them congregating there just for a CHANCE at possibly killing him sometime in the next several hours. I avoid those situations like the plague but have still been able to enjoy some more casual raiding.

[Papa]

It's still possible to enjoy SOME raiding on blue as a casual. I just watch guild chat and show up for some of the smaller/quicker raid targets. I absolutely refuse to go for any mobs that require poopsocking. I remember in particular one time several guilds all stacking up at KC while Venril Sathir was in window, all of them congregating there just for a CHANCE at possibly killing him sometime in the next several hours. I avoid those situations like the plague but have still been able to enjoy some more casual raiding.

yea exactly, there are people who want to experience all of the content (not just some of it) but aren't willing to stoop to poopsock levels that others are. for them, i say consider phinigel.

[Swish]

Thats quite a sanitized description. Here is a more accurate representation:

1. Roll a char, solo to teens because nobody plays red
2. Enter a common exp zone, hoping to find another soul, and finally get a duo.
3. Your duo is griefed by a char who had four years to gather equipment. If you are lucky he kills you, if unlucky you are rooted so a mob kills you
4. Either get your corpse camped, or skip this step and go to #5
5. Declare LNS in ooc, get mocked.


1. Follow the blue XP path, there's usually people on....particularly around Faydwer/Kunark.

2. See 1.

3. Doesn't happen these days, haven't had that happen to me in ages - are you advertising your location in ooc?

4. Corpse camping isn't legal if you LNS. Put a petition in if they're ignoring it.

5. Who cares? The only people who should give a shit about calling LNS are people who are level 60, good pvpers, and actually have a rep to lose. Nobody expects undergeared characters or new players to be instantly good. Not sure where this concern comes from.

[Swish]

Is it some fear of the loss of control on red? That for every action on blue you can just petition according to a huge set of rules and Uncle Braknar will appear to save you?

Red will make you better at EQ, no doubt about it <3

[Swish]

Red isn't for whiners and complainers. I think that's one of the reasons people can't handle it. Thankfully there'e comfort in an endless set of rules on blue that keep you nice and safe.

Oh, and people advocating for more rules and more rules on those rules as weeks/months go by.

[Ryanx3d]

What is better about competition on Blue than competition on Red that makes you want to compete on Blue and not on Red?

Competition isn't a problem on blu, it encourages people to get shit done.

Plus no one wants to start over. I dont feel like doing my epic all over, let alone getting PKd trying to get it done.

[kotton05]

Not to mention those people who hang at certain levels to avoid lvl 60 pvp to farm newbs leveling. But if you're smart and bond /who to a movement so you don't get jumped red is ok.


One thing no one mentioned is you can box it while you're camping something on blue.

[Ravager]

So, what I am seeing is that Blue "competitive" raiders don't find Red raiding attractive, because there's a few people there who actively work to make the game intolerable. Interesting.

[Swish]

So, what I am seeing is that Blue "competitive" raiders don't find Red raiding attractive, because there's a few people there who actively work to make the game intolerable. Interesting.

The bottom line is if you go to play on a pvp server, expect pvp. That includes pvp when raiding...so most raid nights you're not just playing a loot pinata game, you're keeping your eye on anyone zoning in, scouting, etc.

Nilbog or Rogean recorded a really good mass pvp fight in Dreadlands a couple of years back when the pop was higher, I'll see if I can find it on youtube.

Enabling pvp in blue raid zones would really help A/A to sort out their differences in a hurry if both hate pvp equally. Think about it ^^

[Bhubbles]

I'll preface this with - different strokes for different folks...

Blue - you end up doing the same thing over and over again.

Level up a character to 55+
Dabble in the raid scene
Find out it's insane to put in that kind of time/work
re-roll a new character to level up...

*Personally this was not for me, sure the first time through when red wasn't around it was fun - but doing it over and over again... Not for me.

Red - Long hard road, but very rewarding in the end.
Level up to 55+ (not easy and definitely can be lonely along the way)
Get to casually raid (if that's your thing) from 1-4 days per week 5:30 - 10:30 (depending on time zone).
See 98% of the raid content that's out and get geared relatively fast.
Be in a casual guild - pvp, get your epic, snag a few smaller targets.

Either retire from EQ or continue casual play in whatever fashion you deem fit.

* Personally I love the pvp aspect, and along the way I got to see a lot of the things that I didn't in 1999-2002. VP, TOV, Sleepers and I also got to see every raid encounter in the game except Tunare (but let's be realistic - no sane person wants to clear POG).

If you want to play the game with out any limitations I would play red, if your just looking to level up and chat in groups over and over go blue (This is from a Casual players mindset).

[TheDuck]

If you want to play the game with out any limitations I would play red, if your just looking to level up and chat in groups over and over go blue (This is from a Casual players mindset).

[kotton05]

Best recorded pvp is the seb battle between 50 rag tag geared holocaust versus 25 vp gear azrael. You can find this on Sirkens YouTube channel.

[Gimp]

Best recorded pvp is the seb battle between 50 rag tag geared holocaust versus 25 vp gear azrael. You can find this on Sirkens YouTube channel.

Who won?

[Daldaen]

Who won?

They all lost. They played on red.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

They all lost. They played on red.

[Gimp]

They all lost. They played on red.

Got em

[Getsmurfed]

http://i.imgur.com/1Q0epPk.gif

Spoiler Alert: You all are still playing, you have lost.

[mickmoranis]

Blue server would probably be perfect if they just enabled pvp in raid zones during spawn windows. would seriously fix like 99.99% of p99's 99 problems.

[JurisDictum]

Blue server would probably be perfect if they just enabled pvp in raid zones during spawn windows. would seriously fix like 99.99% of p99's 99 problems.

I would be ok with that solution.

I'm left to conclude that those that lead A/A just plain like staring at walls. Considering there are a million ways to fix that problem and actually increase competition. Rather than the "free loot" straw man.

[mickmoranis]

I cant imagine a more fitting place in EQ for pvp... I mean its like, get end game, fight for raid bosses.

Who would design a game called: get end game, wait patiently for wait for raid bosses?

[mickmoranis]

not only would guilds need to control zones for larg periods of time for random spawns, raiding is like the only part of the game where you DONT use all the end game loot you've acquired over the years.

but what do i know im just kermit drinking tea

[Ravager]

Blue server would probably be perfect if they just enabled pvp in raid zones during spawn windows. would seriously fix like 99.99% of p99's 99 problems.
I suspect that what would happen is a month or two of PvP, one of A/A folds, the leftovers get picked up by the winning guild, the great gear divide would widen between the victorious A and all other guilds and things would look like they do on Red for the raid scene, since doing the same things generally net you the same results.

[mickmoranis]

nah were talking blue not the shitty red server with max 1 guild population on it.