Raid Suspending best idea GM's had in a long time

[Fifield]

Anyone else agree that suspending Aftermath and Awakened was the best thing ever!?! And this is coming from someone who is in these guilds.

All these other guilds finally got a chance to kill some of these dragons. Enjoy some classic velious content. good job staff, and whaaaat they did a repop too? /clap

As far as the rest of you who won't leave up some mobs for the lesser guilds once in awhile. These guilds killed them all, they were able to kill them all. They just don't want to give their lives away to raid on a emulated server.

All these dragons were killed without you being able to be there, life went on, everything will be ok, your characters are still there. Maybe you could share some spawns with these guys who don't want to "Race" each week more often.

I don't even know a reason for this post, i just think its fucking awesome that all these guilds came together and got to enjoy some new fun content and by the sounds of it, had a ton of fun. Well done


TLDR: Learn to share, its just a game.

[Tankdan]

Just implement Class C/R/FFA system and be done with it. We're on what, month 18 of Velious? It aint new.

[bigjerry]

What? Did not read.

[FatMice]

Boo Fifi. BOO

[Legday]

Only downside is those nice collapsed mid weekend windows are now going to be messier than they've been in a long long time.

Still happy to see everybody getting in on the fun!

[spanky_kc]

#goplaymorephinny!

[Linksfather]

I like seeing the other guilds get a shot at all the ToV mobs without Awaken/Aftermath breathing down their necks foaming at the mouth. Bird Dogging them with a timer countdown reminder every 5 minutes. Perhaps we will see more competition...HOWEVER.. I would like to see the new competition have to play by the same rules... ie no FTE on Lady M while engaged on a raid target in another zone etc....
I am in Aftermath and I am ok with seeing these guys get a shot at this and I am happy for the sim pop right after.
I would like to see the fte race rule go away.. alt tab fbs manipulation ruined that for everyone.

[Danth]

I think the worst part of this suspension is having to see all the neckbeards getting SoulFire so they can prepare to take back raid scene

They don't need those soulfires to beat the casual players. They can do that just by being willing to stare at walls for hours on end--something most folks aren't willing to do. The soulfires are so they can beat each other.

Danth

[Bruno]

Both class c guilds have been suspended simultaneously. Class r got 10 days? give or take of free mobs for that period out of the year. This is nothing new. Enjoy the pixels while you can. They're going to be thirsty once that raid suspension is up.

[Whirled]

Class c= https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder392/500x/66094392.jpg

Class R = http://rockvideogames.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-video-game-cosplay-girls00025-2w4ppauq24yo1jp0756o0a.png

Dont be a C

[Daldaen]

You're welcome for suggesting 10 day entire raid bans for raid infractions during the last nerd summit!

The timeline on P99 is almost complete. Just the big October patch left and a few smaller patches. Once it's done they can go extremely non-classic for purposes of appeasing the mass raiding population on the server.

I haven't been online P99 in a few days in any meaningful capacity... Have any of the guilds crawled ToV or have they all submitted to peer pressure and zone-pulled to LTK or Entrance? Was kinda hoping one or two of them would crawl into North but dunno if that happened or not.

[Fifield]

I haven't been online P99 in a few days in any meaningful capacity... Have any of the guilds crawled ToV or have they all submitted to peer pressure and zone-pulled to LTK or Entrance? Was kinda hoping one or two of them would crawl into North but dunno if that happened or not.

I have no idea, all I know is casuals killed shit.

[Kagey]

casuals will not clear cause they dont want to "stare at walls for hours" and clearing tov would be multiple hours.

[Vallanor]

I haven't been online P99 in a few days in any meaningful capacity... Have any of the guilds crawled ToV or have they all submitted to peer pressure and zone-pulled to LTK or Entrance? Was kinda hoping one or two of them would crawl into North but dunno if that happened or not.

It was all zone pulls from what I saw. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of people in AG would have loved crawling through. It just wasn't really feasible since we were sharing the zone with several guilds/alliances who were also killing things from deep in NToV. Everyone would have to agree to clear and coordinate to make it feasible without a "your week your ToV" kind of set-up.

It's not quite as fun to sit at the zone-out and wait for a dragon to magically appear in camp, but we still had a great time.

[Danth]

...but we still had a great time.

Some folks, maybe, and in public. Quite a few of the AG on my friends list (and there's a lot of 'em--it has become the top destination guild for rising casuals) were privately complaining about how dreary and boring it was. As you said, there was a lot of disappointment with the zone pulls. Perhaps it'd be worth working out that proper clear next time you get the chance.

Danth

[Trollkarlen]

I think the worst part of this suspension is having to see all the neckbeards getting SoulFire so they can prepare to take back raid scene


any guild using soulfires to trivialize raid encounters and ruining the game should be dismantled and its members banned. We should also all laugh at these losers.

[mattydef]

The server this weekend was by far the most fun and healthy I've seen it in a long time. People in tov were literally doing a conga line and partying with the absence of A/A. Everyone got to enjoy content without any drama. We're all nerds here on p99, but once you take out the beardiest of neckbeards, it's amazing how great the atmosphere becomes. Unfortunately it will end too soon, A/A members took their shower and are ready to get back into their extremely competitive everquest pve mode.

[Maner]

Anyone else agree that suspending Aftermath and Awakened was the best thing ever!?! And this is coming from someone who is in these guilds.

All these other guilds finally got a chance to kill some of these dragons. Enjoy some classic velious content. good job staff, and whaaaat they did a repop too? /clap

As far as the rest of you who won't leave up some mobs for the lesser guilds once in awhile. These guilds killed them all, they were able to kill them all. They just don't want to give their lives away to raid on a emulated server.

All these dragons were killed without you being able to be there, life went on, everything will be ok, your characters are still there. Maybe you could share some spawns with these guys who don't want to "Race" each week more often.

I don't even know a reason for this post, i just think its fucking awesome that all these guilds came together and got to enjoy some new fun content and by the sounds of it, had a ton of fun. Well done


TLDR: Learn to share, its just a game.

Actually CSG wiped multiple times on vulak and gave up before the repop. I believe that means they wasted a vulak spawn

[Maner]

any guild using soulfires to trivialize raid encounters and ruining the game should be dismantled and its members banned. We should also all laugh at these losers.

Kinda like bringing 130 people for telk or gozz? Or 150 people for CT?

[Ravager]

Kinda like bringing 130 people for telk or gozz? Or 150 people for CT?
You can't fault them for this. A/A would be running 150 deep each if they had a scheduled raid too. The only reason they can field 30-60 at any time of day is because their roster is just as deep. The fact that casual guilds bring 150 to a scheduled CT and A/A has just as many on call just shows how crowded the end game is.

In reality, there needs to be 2-3 more blue servers if you want any semblance of classic raiding.

[Comoc1]

I'm happy for the casuals. Good for them. I've had a ton of fun leveling my alt, questing, and chillin' with my buds in the down time.

To think that we'd begrudge casuals for getting dragons in,OR OUT of the suspension is completely wrong.

[Skew]

You're welcome for suggesting 10 day entire raid bans for raid infractions during the last nerd summit!

The timeline on P99 is almost complete. Just the big October patch left and a few smaller patches. Once it's done they can go extremely non-classic for purposes of appeasing the mass raiding population on the server.

I haven't been online P99 in a few days in any meaningful capacity... Have any of the guilds crawled ToV or have they all submitted to peer pressure and zone-pulled to LTK or Entrance? Was kinda hoping one or two of them would crawl into North but dunno if that happened or not.

Rustle crawled HoT and killed two Dozekars at the same time.

[ArumTP]

The server this weekend was by far the most fun and healthy I've seen it in a long time. People in tov were literally doing a conga line and partying with the absence of A/A. Everyone got to enjoy content without any drama. We're all nerds here on p99, but once you take out the beardiest of neckbeards, it's amazing how great the atmosphere becomes. Unfortunately it will end too soon, A/A members took their shower and are ready to get back into their extremely competitive everquest pve mode.

How much of a pissing match is it between smaller guilds is it on small stuff that A/A has forgotten about? I recall quite the pissing match over sky rotations long after A/A had left that stuff.

Literally if A/A were to completely disappear from the server, the same "problems" would return in a month tops, because there will always be those few that aren't "casual" enough.

It will never been sunshine and rainbows, there will always be a top and a bottom

[fiveeauxfour]

I'm happy for the casuals. Good for them. I've had a ton of fun leveling my alt, questing, and chillin' with my buds in the down time.


that competitive fellspine was all the rage last night!

[fiveeauxfour]

How much of a pissing match is it between smaller guilds is it on small stuff that A/A has forgotten about? I recall quite the pissing match over sky rotations long after A/A had left that stuff.

Literally if A/A were to completely disappear from the server, the same "problems" would return in a month tops, because there will always be those few that aren't "casual" enough.

It will never been sunshine and rainbows, there will always be a top and a bottom

oooh man as an asgardian i can never forget how AG treated us with sky, those greedy bee-grabbing bastards! Never wanted to share with us!

[bigjerry]

lively discussion guys, keep it up! reading every word posted in this thread was very good for me!!

[Maner]

You can't fault them for this. A/A would be running 150 deep each if they had a scheduled raid too. The only reason they can field 30-60 at any time of day is because their roster is just as deep. The fact that casual guilds bring 150 to a scheduled CT and A/A has just as many on call just shows how crowded the end game is.

In reality, there needs to be 2-3 more blue servers if you want any semblance of classic raiding.

That isn't true, we schedule VP and Tunare in AM and at most get 80 people.

[Kagey]

^^ and both A/A wouldn't recruit that many if our numbers are hitting 100 consistently.

[Comoc1]

that competitive fellspine was all the rage last night!

That was a blast man I wana do some more SG

[Ravager]

That isn't true, we schedule VP and Tunare in AM and at most get 80 people.
I'd argue 80 in AM is equivalent to 150 at prime time.

[Ravager]

^^ and both A/A wouldn't recruit that many if our numbers are hitting 100 consistently.
Right, but the point is the same, you have just as many raiders in your guild as the casuals do. It's ridiculous that 12-15 guilds on this server each have 3-4 times as many raiders as necessary to down the content. The only fix is more servers.

[JboxCSU]

Concede

[colicab]

Man. Getsome doing gods work with this agreement. I am sure this is some of the most fun the casuals have had in ages on this mess of a server. GMs should suspend A/A for 2 weeks out of every month or just re-implement the class system.

[jcr4990]

"Velious will fix everything"

Lol99

[Zekayy]

Come play uthgard

[Zekayy]

But I hope they dont think this will be a regular thing, everything will be back to normal soon when a/a gets off suspension enjoy your pixels while you can il be playing uthgard

[Naethyn]

Was fun playing alts and getting back to the Everquest roots without a batphone waiting to ring. That said, if the VP rotation didn't prove it already, the we want to crawl/clear to dragons plea holds no weight at all.

[Maner]

I'd argue 80 in AM is equivalent to 150 at prime time.

AM as in aftermath, not in the morning

[Mythanor]

Was fun playing alts and getting back to the Everquest roots without a batphone waiting to ring. That said, if the VP rotation didn't prove it already, the we want to crawl/clear to dragons plea holds no weight at all.

You mean the * we made a deal with the suspended guilds, to kill the pixels fast as possible, to keep the pixel dropping mob spawn timers as close as possible, for when the suspended guilds come back, even though we didnt have to for said suspended guilds* .... that dungeon crawling.. that the one you are moaning about as your lame excuse for douche baggery when able to raid?

[Danth]

"Velious will fix everything"

Just about did from my point of view: The high-end guys are now largely sequestered away in prisons of their own making, so I barely see them. They have their petition wars in Temple Veeshan, I do my own activities elsewhere in peace, and everything's fine for the most part. Truth be told I barely even see Awakened or Aftermath guild tags in-game anymore. It's a far cry from the old days when Sebilis or Karnor turned to hell any time Trakanon or Venril Sathir was in window.

The main group that P1999 sucks for is the folks who want to do the high-end raids on their own schedule. P99 works for the "A" guilds because they'll operate on whatever schedule is needed. It works for me because I don't give a hoot about raids. That first group of folks though.....they're best off either coming to grips with usually losing, or switching over elsewhere like you did.

Danth

[Ravager]

AM as in aftermath, not in the morning
All the same, that's 2 guilds worth of raiders. Assuming Awakened has just as many, that's 4 guilds worth of raiders taking most of the content, and probably another 20 guilds worth of raiders spread across the rest of the guilds that could all handle the content if given an uncontested shot. 24 guilds worth of raiders for what, 57 mobs a week? Doesn't seem very classic at all.

[Swish]

It would be interesting if, on the day they came back there was an earthquake as a test for "what did you learn during your suspension?"... see if petitionquest and crying wolf is the same meta and suspend them again if so.

[Naethyn]

You mean the * we made a deal with the suspended guilds, to kill the pixels fast as possible, to keep the pixel dropping mob spawn timers as close as possible, for when the suspended guilds come back, even though we didnt have to for said suspended guilds* .... that dungeon crawling.. that the one you are moaning about as your lame excuse for douche baggery when able to raid?
You know, there was a time when players would coth up to each wing of tov (north, west, east) to kill a dragon. The first winter of Velious was amazing. Clear the guards and pull the dragons to areas without zone wide trains. The thing is - it was a casual guild that started the pull to zoneline tactic that everyone (including those who still claim they want to clear) uses. The truth is 99% of us are lazy, and not really looking for a true adventure, and want to put in as little as possible to get the most amount pixels.

[Maner]

All the same, that's 2 guilds worth of raiders. Assuming Awakened has just as many, that's 4 guilds worth of raiders taking most of the content, and probably another 20 guilds worth of raiders spread across the rest of the guilds that could all handle the content if given an uncontested shot. 24 guilds worth of raiders for what, 57 mobs a week? Doesn't seem very classic at all.

how do you figure? every raid entity this weekend brought 100+ to the table. I dont know what server you played on during live, but there were 3 top guilds on mine and 6-7 guilds below them that picked up the scraps.

Putting arbitrary numbers on what is a guild worth of raiders also seems kinda stupid. Wasn't the raid limit 72 on live when they first put in the raid group? Seems like 80 people is a lot more like live than 120-150

[Zekayy]

Play Uthgard none of this concede or fraps bullshit we fight like true men in 40 man rvrs where real wars are settled.

[Lammy]

god you're so manly

[Ciroco]

That said, if the VP rotation didn't prove it already, the we want to crawl/clear to dragons plea holds no weight at all.

Not that I'm into crawling, but I'm interested to hear how you'd expect any raidforce to crawl through ToV when the targets that are all up are split up between various guilds.

[Skew]

I'm playing return of reckoning for proper RvR , and it's quite awesome.

Doing 48 vs 48 atm and it's quite fun !

not heard of that. looking at their website now. is it like larger form guildwars?

[LostCause]

its a warhammer online emu server.

[Jimjam]

its a warhammer online emu server.

I've been a fan of Games Workshop's settings, but when this game was live I was not in a position to play.

Is the game/emu any good?

[bktroost]

It's time to make P99 great again, bring back the rotations even if it doesn't include the top targets like Vulak/Doze etc.


+1

[Legday]

It's time to make P99 great again, bring back the rotations even if it doesn't include the top targets like Vulak/Doze etc.

[The Prez]

Nothing quite like having 150 people stare at a wall for 10 hours while you struggle to pull a dragon that you swore you'd clear to. Honestly all I've seen is that the "casuals" have more time and people to dedicate than the top 2 guilds do, they just want free handouts. Fuckin' Obama

[Breaken]

At least we have Breaken stepping up to hash out the important details like a PoGrowth agreement/rotation ��

CSG has shown interest in attempting Growth and as Detoxx can attest, our old agreement was always changing because no rules were put in place. No time limit, no rules about failing (we argued about what happens if you fail Tunare versus failing the clear), nothing. I was also told that CSG was going to sign the agreement, but I know they are busy this week. Does Aftermath plan to agree to anything, or are we just going to be left with a Ring War Rotation and a Statue/AoW agreement between Awakened and CSG?

[Ella`Ella]

At least we have Breaken stepping up to hash out the important details like a PoGrowth agreement/rotation ��

On a serious note Aftermath has stated several times that we would be willing to rotate several targets in velious to open up some content but Breaken refuses. He doesn't want to take the "fun" away from his people, cause staring at a wall for 16 hrs is so exhilarating.

It's time to make P99 great again, bring back the rotations even if it doesn't include the top targets like Vulak/Doze etc.

Just create a tier system for content - Vulak/Doze/KT/Dain/Statue>AoW being the first tier, bunch of other shit in T2 and the lower Velious content and old shit like VP/Trak etc in T3.

A/A compete for T1 mobs always.
A/A rotate T2 mobs so their members don't have to stare at a wall for 16 hours.
A/A/CSG rotate T3 mobs.

That keeps the fun in the game for the mobs that really matter when measuring PixelPeens, eliminates the need for WallStareQuest for fluff loot, and keeps CSG with some flowing pixels.

[deezy]

how do you figure? every raid entity this weekend brought 100+ to the table.
I can't speak for the other raid forces, but rustle only brought between 40-50 for each mob this past weekend.

[Fifield]

CSG has shown interest in attempting Growth and as Detoxx can attest, our old agreement was always changing because no rules were put in place. No time limit, no rules about failing (we argued about what happens if you fail Tunare versus failing the clear), nothing. I was also told that CSG was going to sign the agreement, but I know they are busy this week. Does Aftermath plan to agree to anything, or are we just going to be left with a Ring War Rotation and a Statue/AoW agreement between Awakened and CSG?

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

[Ella`Ella]

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

Fifield falls short with the OP and recovers with this.

[Breaken]

So we should allow a guild two weeks to attempt Tunare? Three weeks? Why not a month?

[Mortiis]

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

+1

I still don't understand why it's such a hard concept.

+2

For the forty-eight.

[Swish]

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

What if Anon/Kittens or Venerate/FoH wants to be dealt in (and why shouldn't they)? What then? Who's going to be the one to pull the rug out from under it and leave for Phinigel?

[Lobus]

So we should allow a guild two weeks to attempt Tunare? Three weeks? Why not a month?

rofl... he's so autistic he doesn't even understand the point being made...

[Breaken]

I understand the point being made, and I am telling you why it doesn't work. There need to be rules to have order. No rules? Do you not count the order of a rotation a rule?

As it stood, at least once a month Detoxx and I argued about the specifics of Tunare. With clear written rules, there is no need to argue. Point to the rule, either a guild is or isn't abiding by it. Done.

[Lobus]

With clear written rules, there is no need to argue. Point to the rule, either a guild is or isn't abiding by it. Done.

If that were the case Detoxx and his merry crew of aspies wouldn't be clawing at their necks like strung out crackheads watching others take down raid targets all week and having an aneurysm when Rogean earthquakes on a weekend just to troll them some more

[Suwu]

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

you've turned into a little bitch fifield, good god.

[Lobus]

If that were the case Detoxx and his merry crew of aspies wouldn't be clawing at their necks like strung out crackheads watching others take down raid targets all week and having an aneurysm when Rogean earthquakes on a weekend just to troll them some more

oh and I almost forgot... CONCEEEEEEEEEED

[FatMice]

What if all your squabbles over guild agreements where actually posted in the Raid Discussion forum so people could believe that there are good intentions.

Go public or go home.

[The Prez]

Holy fuck you and your stupid rules.

Creating a simple rotation between guilds isnt hard, you dont need to create a 10page manual.

Hey CSG, Awakened, Aftermath. Were gonna rotate Tunare. Ok cool. Done....

Time limits, number of attempts. who gives a shit.

I would assume it's because if anything is left open for interpretation, it will be left open for abuse. Seems like a simple concept. Or is Detoxx logging on different forum accounts to Trollolol now too?

If the current raid scene isn't an indicator with people from every side crying for clearer rules, I don't know what is.

[The Prez]

What if all your squabbles over guild agreements where actually posted in the Raid Discussion forum so people could believe that there are good intentions.

Go public or go home.

Like this? http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262277

[FatMice]

Sure. If anyone responds in any other platform just copy and past like he did on Skype, Discsord, etc. (like he did on his other thread also)

[Ella`Ella]

Who owns JCRs forum account now?

[arsenalpow]

Who owns JCRs forum account now?

BDA as a whole owns it. We bought it with our ill gotten p99 cashout fund. Usually we let Lotharus drive the account, occasionally we let anthrax post. You can usually tell it's anthrax when the posts come off sounding super crazed.

[Fifield]

you've turned into a little bitch fifield, good god.

I saw the light, maybe one day you will too.

I understand the point being made, and I am telling you why it doesn't work. There need to be rules to have order. No rules? Do you not count the order of a rotation a rule?

As it stood, at least once a month Detoxx and I argued about the specifics of Tunare. With clear written rules, there is no need to argue. Point to the rule, either a guild is or isn't abiding by it. Done.

I totally get the idea behind you guys's order. I just think its crazy the layers of rules you have to make in order to come to agreements.

Should be easier then what you guys deal with

[Lobus]

CSR could also just institute Stalin style penalties for fucking with server harmony. Instead of 10 day raiding bans, you literally decimate the ranks.

Any offense leads to a random 10% of the tagged toons being reset back to lvl 1 with all items and money poofed. Would make people think twice about breaking the rules AND joining guilds who'd leadership are next-level-autistic

[Breaken]

The Growth agreement has nothing to do with anything other than formalizing agreements publicly. As I keep saying, there is always an issue with the agreement because new scenarios arise. Just thinking recently, both guilds have complained about the length of time before the other attempted to kill Tunare. Aftermath failed to clear the zone to even attempt Tunare and we argued over the definition of an attempt. Detoxx argued that since you didn't attempt her, it didn't count. He also argued that in response to a failed clear, the zone was FFA. More recently, Aftermath failed to kill Tunare. Detoxx argued that the next one must count as Awakened's turn or he was done with the agreement.

This is not how either of us want to spend our day. Writing complete sets of rules for these scenarios saves time and frustration in the end.

I am completely fine with CSG getting on the Tunare rotation, provided they kill her, and I am fine with them attempting to get on the rotation until they do kill her.

[evbo766]

The Growth agreement has nothing to do with anything other than formalizing agreements publicly. As I keep saying, there is always an issue with the agreement because new scenarios arise. Just thinking recently, both guilds have complained about the length of time before the other attempted to kill Tunare. Aftermath failed to clear the zone to even attempt Tunare and we argued over the definition of an attempt. Detoxx argued that since you didn't attempt her, it didn't count. He also argued that in response to a failed clear, the zone was FFA. More recently, Aftermath failed to kill Tunare. Detoxx argued that the next one must count as Awakened's turn or he was done with the agreement.

This is not how either of us want to spend our day. Writing complete sets of rules for these scenarios saves time and frustration in the end.

I am completely fine with CSG getting on the Tunare rotation, provided they kill her, and I am fine with them attempting to get on the rotation until they do kill her.

So you think that if we spend 8 hours clearing growth and fail to kill Tunare (because it's the day before Christmas Eve and we had a tough time pulling numbers and most of our MTs were out of town) you should be able to go in the next day and clear it AND get the next one?

Fuck outa here you moron.

CSG can go in and have a turn whenever as far as we're concerned. Trying to write a rule to formalize things while adding in guidelines around wiping and handing over the mob after a 10 hour clear is such a douchey try hard move. How bout just don't be a fuckboy and let them try and keep doing what we've been doing.

[FatMice]

The Growth agreement has nothing to do with anything other than formalizing agreements publicly. As I keep saying, there is always an issue with the agreement because new scenarios arise. Just thinking recently, both guilds have complained about the length of time before the other attempted to kill Tunare. Aftermath failed to clear the zone to even attempt Tunare and we argued over the definition of an attempt. Detoxx argued that since you didn't attempt her, it didn't count. He also argued that in response to a failed clear, the zone was FFA. More recently, Aftermath failed to kill Tunare. Detoxx argued that the next one must count as Awakened's turn or he was done with the agreement.

This is not how either of us want to spend our day. Writing complete sets of rules for these scenarios saves time and frustration in the end.

I am completely fine with CSG getting on the Tunare rotation, provided they kill her, and I am fine with them attempting to get on the rotation until they do kill her.

TLDR;
Those nerds couldn't kill Tunare. My nerds want to kill Tunare. Also, my nerds have no patience for other nerds failings. At the same time my nerds don't care if new nerds get in on the Tunare action even tho it would mean more time in between when my nerds can kill Tunare.

[evbo766]

Forgot to swap accounts but this is Legday, before you think I'm hiding behind an anon acct.

[icedwards]

TLDR;
Those nerds couldn't kill Tunare. My nerds want to kill Tunare. Also, my nerds have no patience for other nerds failings. At the same time my nerds don't care if new nerds get in on the Tunare action even tho it would mean more time in between when my nerds can kill Tunare.

Basically.

Is your guild capable of killing Tunare? Take a shot at the roatation, but don't shit yourself like Legday just did when one of the other guilds capable of killing her get frustrated when she's left up for 2 weeks.

[Breaken]

So you think that if we spend 8 hours clearing growth and fail to kill Tunare (because it's the day before Christmas Eve and we had a tough time pulling numbers and most of our MTs were out of town) you should be able to go in the next day and clear it AND get the next one?

You choose the day you clear. If you choose to do it on a rough night, why do it? Also, no I don't think we should be able to go in and clear it AND get the next one. That is why I posted no FFA terms in the proposed agreement. Maybe you should read it again.

I guess if we had a formal agreement on the terms of a growth agreement, the debate of who goes next wouldn't be a problem, would it?

[Legday]

We chose a rough night because it was our turn and we aren't so neckbeardish that we will clear growth on Xmas, so it became clear that the way the holiday weekend was shaping up we would probably either have to do it on 12/23 or 12/27, and I know the latter date would drive you nuts because it pushes your next one back.

[Legday]

Detoxx argued that the next one must count as Awakened's turn or he was done with the agreement.

Why even mention this in this way unless your on the other side of it saying you should get the Tunare and hen keep your next spot as well? That's where I'm coming from here.

[Breaken]

I didn't say anything. We zoned in on the assumption that if we killed it, it would rotate. I got a swift Skype message demanding we leave the zone. Admittedly, I have sent the same type to Detoxx when the growth rules were unclear. When I said that we quite literally discussed this exact scenario less than a month prior, and that if we killed her, it would rotate, Detoxx said something along the lines of, "fine, if that is how it works, no problem". So yes, he argued that it must count. And once again, I show why spelled out agreements are the only solution.

[Ella`Ella]

Careful the wise man to argue with a fool - from a distance, it's hard to tell who is who.

[Legday]

Oh they did it for us... thanks "nice guys"

Well, it's a true statement that you can interpret how you will.

[Papa]

Rogues are a hard class

Warriors should be defaulted all AoN's

BDA Loot Council is totally fair and not at all corrupt

BDA actually is the best raiding guild in Everquest we only take 6 hours to clear VT with 60 ppl cause we like hanging out with each other for 6 hours its not cause we suck

Try BDA today!

this guy is cut so deep lol

[bigjerry]

lot of new pages for me not to read since yesterday

Keep it up guys!

[Lammy]

With zero raid petitions to deal with... We sit and reflect on this weeks accomplishments.

http://i.imgur.com/K8qBQuf.png

[maskedmelon]

I have so thoroughly exhausted my daily decision resorvoire that I have amassed a decision debt so large I struggle with the most basic choices and have resorted to rolling dice for non-critical decisions at work (*^^*)

halp me... :c

[bigjerry]

I have so thoroughly exhausted my daily decision resorvoire that I have amassed a decision debt so large I struggle with the most basic choices and have resorted to rolling dice for non-critical decisions at work (*^^*)

halp me... :c

im really good at making decisions for other ppl will pm you a list of tasks

[FatMice]

No one else was there to petition anyone for all the rule violations that happened.

FAV alliance killed a Yelinak without even getting a new FTE before engaging!
Saw multiple guilds not running from ToV/Kael entrance to acquire first FTE.

Believe me, there would have been multiple petitions submitted if the rules applied to everyone as they do to A/A.

It's in the spirit of the rules that the rules don't matter.

[mickmoranis]

roll red, whole server is suspended.

or something, idk theres only 5 ppl online during raid hours

[Comoc1]

If that were the case Detoxx and his merry crew of aspies wouldn't be clawing at their necks like strung out crackheads watching others take down raid targets all week and having an aneurysm when Rogean earthquakes on a weekend just to troll them some more

That never happened and you're a complete moron with an overactive imagination.

[burkemi5]

No one else was there to petition anyone for all the rule violations that happened.

FAV alliance killed a Yelinak without even getting a new FTE before engaging!
Saw multiple guilds not running from ToV/Kael entrance to acquire first FTE.

Believe me, there would have been multiple petitions submitted if the rules applied to everyone as they do to A/A.

Please tell us how much it hurts you to see these serious infractions being committed.

[Papa]

you have the worst brain in all of Norrath

[Skew]

With zero raid petitions to deal with... We sit and reflect on this weeks accomplishments.

http://i.imgur.com/K8qBQuf.png

Was that before or after the 3rd Vulak in 3 days spawned? :eek::confused:

Funny old week.

[wrighter00]

Much love, guys and gals. What I'm seeing in this. Awakened and Aftermath "agreement". Rules, arguments, specifics, you did, well you did". It seems the only thing missing is actually being agreeable.

If anything, this week should show that pretty much everyone else on the server was able to operate without citing specific rules, harassing GMs and each other, kill their targets, and get their loot, and move onto their next mission. If, after all that, the only thing left to pull at is how many people some Alliances brought for this one time event if A/A doesn't change their minds a bit, then it's become truly petty. I doubt raid numbers like the past few days would be a regular thing if there were more active rotations. As it is, this was treated as a scheduled, one time thing. Of course huge turn outs would happen. A lot of these people have been waiting to do these mobs for a long time.

PS. I'm not a dick. You can talk to me in /tells anytime.

[Maner]

Was that before or after the 3rd Vulak in 3 days spawned? :eek::confused:

Funny old week.

3rd? the 1st one was never killed the repoped one was D-touched by rogean and then the original first one wasnt killed yet again lol

[Maner]

Much love, guys and gals. What I'm seeing in this. Awakened and Aftermath "agreement". Rules, arguments, specifics, you did, well you did". It seems the only thing missing is actually being agreeable.

If anything, this week should show that pretty much everyone else on the server was able to operate without citing specific rules, harassing GMs and each other, kill their targets, and get their loot, and move onto their next mission. If, after all that, the only thing left to pull at is how many people some Alliances brought for this one time event if A/A doesn't change their minds a bit, then it's become truly petty. I doubt raid numbers like the past few days would be a regular thing if there were more active rotations. As it is, this was treated as a scheduled, one time thing. Of course huge turn outs would happen. A lot of these people have been waiting to do these mobs for a long time.

PS. I'm not a dick. You can talk to me in /tells anytime.

But why? to be honest FoH and their raid partners don't ever put forth a showing in ToV. In what way would it be beneficial for A/A to rotate anything since they aren't actually losing anything to you? Guild relations are great, but i look down on the guy begging for change outside the supermarket every night too.

There are raid targets still up today meaning that windows next week may be spread over 3-4 days doesn't seem like that much of a success when nothing was contested..

[Nitsude]

There are raid targets still up today meaning that windows next week may be spread over 3-4 days doesn't seem like that much of a success when nothing was contested..

I wonder if you realize that no one outside of A/A care about windows being spread out.

[Danth]

As an aside:

The real factor determining the success this week is whether the guides and GM's had an appreciable reduction in their raid-related petitions. After all, that's supposedly the major factor which has shaped the present ruleset.

Danth

[Kagey]

I wonder if you realize that no one outside of A/A care about windows being spread out.

the window thing was better for you to NOT have them spread out.

[Skew]

3rd? the 1st one was never killed the repoped one was D-touched by rogean and then the original first one wasnt killed yet again lol

2 Vulaks died within 3 hours of each other today.

[Nitsude]

I wonder if you realize that nobody but yourself cares about your job description that you felt compelled to adding into your forum signature.

I've heard resume, but job description? You must not be employed. That's not a job description, lol.

[Nitsude]

the window thing was better for you to NOT have them spread out.

Is it? I figure neckbeards will burn out sooner with windows spread apart.

[Xulia]

When other guilds have proven they can accomplish killing high level raid targets, what's the problem with setting up a rotation system and simply sharing them? What's stopping the raiding guilds on Blue from working together, and refining that system to an even better one? Seeing how the recent period of cooperation has worked it seems like the only obstacle is self-interest and greed.

I think this cooperative time has worked out much better than trying to compete separately and losing to virtual monsters due to lack of time to prepare and plan. A lot of people who don't get to have the enjoyment of tackling some of the challenges we have - they've probably had a great time these past few days. It's not "begging" - it's cooperation.

[Snackies]

GREAT WEEK HAD BY ALL*

http://i.imgur.com/nkgFows.jpg
*Taste may not appeal to Linux users

[Zekayy]

Play Uthgard

[Tycoon]

When other guilds have proven they can accomplish killing high level raid targets, what's the problem with setting up a rotation system and simply sharing them? What's stopping the raiding guilds on Blue from working together, and refining that system to an even better one? Seeing how the recent period of cooperation has worked it seems like the only obstacle is self-interest and greed.

I think this cooperative time has worked out much better than trying to compete separately and losing to virtual monsters due to lack of time to prepare and plan. A lot of people who don't get to have the enjoyment of tackling some of the challenges we have - they've probably had a great time these past few days. It's not "begging" - it's cooperation.

Rotation is welfare. This game was never about equal pixels for all. It was about scumbaggery and shitty lifestyles winning in a virtual place. Keep your unclassic shit on Phinny.

[Pheer]

the way someone else plays a video game makes me very angry in real life

[Pheer]

youre right, my time would be much more productively spent playing WoW pvp servers slaughtering lowbies and trolling forums to call strangers over the internet cucks and manlets

[Pheer]

mocked for posting like an edgy teenager
feel embarassed
pretend like the post doesnt exist and repeat previous troll attempt

you did it bro, i should be getting upset irl any time now

[Daldaen]

Really there aren't many mobs with too few pixels...

Yelinak is the big one. Drops a 1 item, 1 talisman and 1 head. Should drop 3-4 items, 1 talisman and 1 head during classic.

Vulak is another. Drops 2 items almost every time, 3 being extremely rare. 3 should be the common classic distribution.

AoW *may* be another. The two LoS kills in era show 4 drops each. But I know during Luclin/PoP he was a 2-4 dropper like he is on P99.

Tunare is another. Late era kills show 4 each time and 2 BPs. Early era kills show the current 3 drops which includes BPs. Around October patch this should get changed on P99 but who knows if it will happen.

The rest drop the correct numbers it's just a discussion about the frequency of those numbers.

[FatMice]

Nitsude I know there is/was a hardcore gamer in you. Just because you aren't of that mindset now doesn't mean the people that are willing to spend their personal time staring at a wall to fill their pixel lust isn't wrong. I have done it and it's degrading. it's why I can't do it for long periods of time.

Also to the guilds that got to see targets that otherwise they wouldn't have competed for; there is never was sympathy pixels in classic Everquest. Sirken has said, something along the lines of this many times in his stream, and I applaud him for it; "Not everyone will get to see, down and experience the content in Everquest, that is how the game operates."

There is a community of over 1,000 people at a time per day on this server. Alliances aside it's never going to allow everyone to get along. If you think are equal to each player you're correct but only in the sense, the more you put in the more you get out of it.

[burkemi5]

I may not agree with Taco's tone, but his message is right. Literally anyone who participates in the FTE racing, rule lawyering, screen sharing tracking, is a fat loser who needs to seriously re-evaluate his life.

[kotton05]

Little birdy on my shoulder has told me there are more to come . I'm eagerly expecting more suspensions to hit just as all the neckbeards think it's game on again.

Pras to all who worked well with others recently:)

[FatMice]

Little birdy on my shoulder has told me there are more to come . I'm eagerly expecting more suspensions to hit just as all the neckbeards think it's game on again.

Either put up or shut up.

[Ikon]

Nitsude I know there is/was a hardcore gamer in you. Just because you aren't of that mindset now doesn't mean the people that are willing to spend their personal time staring at a wall to fill their pixel lust isn't wrong. I have done it and it's degrading. it's why I can't do it for long periods of time.

Also to the guilds that got to see targets that otherwise they wouldn't have competed for; there is never was sympathy pixels in classic Everquest. Sirken has said, something along the lines of this many times in his stream, and I applaud him for it; "Not everyone will get to see, down and experience the content in Everquest, that is how the game operates."

There is a community of over 1,000 people at a time per day on this server. Alliances aside it's never going to allow everyone to get along. If you think are equal to each player you're correct but only in the sense, the more you put in the more you get out of it.
Sirken's incorrect. There were rotations and they were enforced on live, no guild could repeatedly kill a mob(s) while denying it to others, especially trivial mobs, the only time a guild could have exclusive access to and farm a mob was when it was the only guild capable of killing that mob.

[maskedmelon]

Sirken's incorrect. There were rotations and they were enforced on live, no guild could repeatedly kill a mob(s) while denying it to others, especially trivial mobs, the only time a guild could have exclusive access to and farm a mob was when it was the only guild capable of killing that mob.

Can't rewrite history paul. Your anecdotal forum post don't trump every other person's anecdotal experience that contradicts it :c

I'm sorry :c

[FatMice]

When did I say anything about rotations? Also each server had their own rules. The server I was on, as I remember it, was tiered. And it was very hard for smaller guilds to move up the tier as the higher up guilds would try to block you the best they could.

[Joyelle]

Sirken's incorrect. There were rotations and they were enforced on live, no guild could repeatedly kill a mob(s) while denying it to others, especially trivial mobs, the only time a guild could have exclusive access to and farm a mob was when it was the only guild capable of killing that mob.

There were rotations on 2 servers, The Rathe and Karana (which is the server I played on). The rotation on Karana was entirely player created, administrated and enforced by a collection of guilds called the Karana Guild Council, which all raiding guilds took part in. It did not include targets from the current expansion, and had gatekeepers that allowed you access to certain tiers of mobs.

I cannot speak about the rotation on The Rathe, which may have been GM enforced, but that narrows it down to 1 server out of 30ish that may have used this model.

[Sirken]

Sirken's incorrect. There were rotations and they were enforced on live, no guild could repeatedly kill a mob(s) while denying it to others, especially trivial mobs, the only time a guild could have exclusive access to and farm a mob was when it was the only guild capable of killing that mob.

maybe on your server, but that's hardly a universal truth among all servers

[Ella`Ella]

manlets

I like this.

[Phantasm]

Ban Spyder73 for those haunted by his awful RP and terrible life choices

[Swish]

Ban Spyder73 for those haunted by his awful RP and terrible life choices

That Chest interview, never forget

[kotton05]

Either put up or shut up.

You want to fight over raising your pottery again? Cuz I swear I'll bake you a fucking cake.

On a side note:what kind of proof you want

[FatMice]

You want to fight over raising your pottery again? Cuz I swear I'll bake you a fucking cake.

On a side note:what kind of proof you want

Ha! Pottery is serious business.

I don't know but you claimed you had a bird.

[kotton05]

Ha! Pottery is serious business.

I don't know but you claimed you had a bird.

First off you do know me!

Secondly after posting I received messages that instructed me to not go any further into details. Just make sure to play nice.

[FatMice]

I thought you guys liked to Rustled Jimmies?! Who are you protecting?

[FatMice]

Side note: I really don't care. I just think this is fun!

[Ikon]

maybe on your server, but that's hardly a universal truth among all servers
Date : 10/03/2000

Topic : Play Nice, Or...

This came of the official EverQuest message boards.
Kill Stealing Policy :

Kill Stealing is now officially defined as Killing an NPC or Mob for any reason, that is already attacking another player. Any player that is caught intentionally kill stealing by a guide or GM may now be warned. These warnings when accumulated, can lead to the player being suspended or banned from EverQuest by a GM.

Play Nice Policy :

Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Whether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

This information somehow got leaked before we were ready to comment on it, hence it showing up on the boards before we had a chance to talk to you about it.
I'll have a new Producer's Letter up early next week to address the new rules, how they are going to be enforced, and the spirit behind the letter.

- Gordon (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,67156/)
Gordon Wrinn was the Associate Producer of Everquest. This policy applied to EVERY SERVER in the game.

Here is the producers letter from 2000 which the quote came from - Link (http://www.network54.com/Search/view/6204/953127207/EQ'ers+you+will+want+to+read+this+-+long?term=200T&page=51370)

Also like any society, we have our underbelly, a relatively small number of people who live to prey upon the honorable. It is frequently the goal of these people to see to their desires, no matter the effect of their actions upon others around them. They are the ones who claim ownership of servers, zones, or spawns, and cause or threaten harm to anyone who does not share their disregard and contempt. They are the ones who live, not to enjoy the game with everyone else, but to enjoy at everyone else’s expense.

For the first few months after EverQuest’s release, we felt that a policy of non-interference in many of these matters was warranted. However, we continued to lose good players. This was not due to any deficiency or dissatisfaction in the game, but due to dissatisfaction with the treatment that they received from their fellow players, and the perceived inability of our Customer Service department to intervene. Late last year, we made a commitment to our players to begin playing an active role in many of these situations.

Sounds like the top guilds on this server doesn't it.

Here is a 3 page forum post with 60+ individual replies, from different servers, discussing the PnP and verifying that it was enforced.
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20000815225307/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/004652.html)


Another post from Gordon Wrinn, I've highlighted the interesting bit which suggests the PnP did not lead post PnP to more server staff being required to enforce it:
The Play Nice Policies were created because a growing number of customers were being subordinated by other, more powerful, groups of players. These other groups would claim "ownership" of spawns, loot drops, and even entire zones, refusing to allow other people a chance to experience them. On some servers, guilds had certain areas camped 24x7.

The play nice policies, in regards to spawns and camping, are designed to promote equal access to the areas. If a group can get into a room, they have as much right to be there as anyone else. Are the policies perfect? No, of course what is? No matter what policy we adopt, there will be people who are helped by the policy, and others that are hurt. Sometimes the policy may help them in one instance and hurt in another.

As I've mentioned in the past, if anyone has any ideas for policies that are easy to understand, are enforcable, do not require a larger CS team than before or after the Play nice policies, and will please everyone, I'd be happy to discuss them. - Gordon
Link (https://web.archive.org/web/20000815062937/http://eqvault.ign.com/)

Another link discussing the enforcement of the PnP:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010112051600/http://www.maximumeq.com/forum/UltraBoard.cgi?Action=ShowPost&Board=general&Post=578&Idle=30&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=2&Session=

InFamous Post from an InFamous Guide:
Play nice policies. My personal feelings aside (lay off the wacky weed, Verant), I get to enforce it. Do you know how much I hate you at the end of a long shift? What kind of asshole thinks the king room in Lower Guk can be shared by TWO GROUPS OF 12? Conversely, what kind of screaming cocksucker thinks it’s okay to camp the king room for 36 hours? I think you both suck. The only people lamer than you are the ones that PNP over derv camps in North Ro and then act surprised when I send one group to the DESERTED derv camp a 30 second walk away.
Link (https://eatingbees.wordpress.com/the-wayback-machine/try-being-a-guide-you/)

[Ella`Ella]

Cool post. Let's see if it changes anything.

[derpcake]

Ella one of the few blue players not to failboat on red, should prolly listen to him.

[nyclin]

that's a lot of effort to highlight the fact that the pnp wasn't a gm enforced raid rotation & sirken's statement is still correct

[maskedmelon]

All that just means that "camps" can't be enforced. Yeah that was live policy and it was ubiquitous; SOE never enforced camp claims. Raids don't camp dragons ^^

[Ikon]

All that just means that "camps" can't be enforced. Yeah that was live policy and it was ubiquitous; SOE never enforced camp claims. Raids don't camp dragons ^^
Evidence of your unsubstantiated claims?

[maskedmelon]

Evidence of your unsubstantiated claims?

Sure, for evidence that it is discussing camps, read your post ^^ Raid forces don't ever claim ownership of mobs outside of the 1hr they have to kill the it following FTE.

Your post proves you wrong because raids don't claim ownership of things and mostly mirrors p99 policy on camps, though p99 does offer some protection for camps.

That bolded blurb that you related to raid guilds is an indictment of people who try to enforce camped spaces ^^

Read it again and ask yourself, do raids claim ownership of anything other than what they are currently killing? In what situations do players claim ownership of spawns? Should all be pretty clear ^^

Good research though ^^b

[Jimjam]

do raids claim ownership of anything other than what they are currently killing?

Raids claim ownership of strings, hats and other tat on vendors :p.

[maskedmelon]

Raids claim ownership of strings, hats and other tat on vendors :p.

Well poo, gu we we gonna need to setup a vendor rotation （＾Ｏ＾）

[Ikon]

Sure, for evidence that it is discussing camps, read your post ^^ Raid forces don't ever claim ownership of mobs outside of the 1hr they have to kill the it following FTE.

Your post proves you wrong because raids don't claim ownership of things and mostly mirrors p99 policy on camps, though p99 does offer some protection for camps.

That bolded blurb that you related to raid guilds is an indictment of people who try to enforce camped spaces ^^

Read it again and ask yourself, do raids claim ownership of anything other than what they are currently killing? In what situations do players claim ownership of spawns? Should all be pretty clear ^^

Good research though ^^b
The post from Gordon says Camps And Spawns. A spawn is a dragon, and it is also a fire beetle. It goes on to say low level and high level items. It says MUST WORK OUT A ROTATION. It does not say Except Raid Targets.

Guilds do indeed camp raid targets on this server. Your opinion is not evidence, its your opinion based on your memory of 17 years ago.

You have every right to disagree with a Everquest producer, a guide who states "I have to enforce it", the 60+ individuals who all agree that it was enforced (whether they liked it or not).

Your personal experience of whether it was enforced or not is irrelevant unless you were a GM or Guide. The majority of petitions, likely 99.99999% (the ones you didn't petition yourself) you had no idea about and no experience of.

[maskedmelon]

The post from Gordon says Camps And Spawns. A spawn is a dragon, and it is also a fire beetle. It goes on to say low level and high level items. It says MUST WORK OUT A ROTATION. It does not say Except Raid Targets.

Guilds do indeed camp raid targets on this server. Your opinion is not evidence, its your opinion based on your memory of 17 years ago.

You have every right to disagree with a Everquest producer, a guide who states "I have to enforce it", the 60+ individuals who all agree that it was enforced (whether they liked it or not).

Your personal experience of whether it was enforced or not is irrelevant unless you were a GM or Guide. The majority of petitions, likely 99.99999% (the ones you didn't petition yourself) you had no idea about and no experience of.

No, you not understanding ^^ Read your post again. It addresses claims of mob ownership. It is very obviously discussing camps (it references named in lguk for example). Raids never claim ownership of spawns. They don't. You know it and I know it. We also all know that as much as players enforced "camps" soe did not recognize them. This is not opinion, it is Reason ^^ I will admit, you had me partially duped back when you posted in server chat because of how you framed the discussion. Kudos on that, but the cat's out now ^^ better luck next time (^。~)v

[Ikon]

No, you not understanding ^^ Read your post again. It addresses claims of mob ownership. It is very obviously discussing camps (it references named in lguk for example). Raids never claim ownership of spawns. They don't. You know it and I know it. We also all know that as much as players enforced "camps" soe did not recognize them. This is not opinion, it is Reason ^^ I will admit, you had me partially duped back when you posted in server chat because of how you framed the discussion. Kudos on that, but the cat's out now ^^ better luck next time (^。~)v
Its opinion and illogical. Once again evidence or your just wasting your time posting your opinion.

Heres a post that might interest you:

You mean its going to hurt my faction with one of the uber guilds that don't invite a single person not in their guild on any function?
The ones that starve everyone else out of the planes?

The ones that took 8 straight dragons before the level 53+ rule had to be put into place?

The ones with the 53 necro camping the entire magi room?

Pnp is used by jerks.

Pnp is needed because of OTHER jerks.

The high level guilds in the game generally turn into self-centered exclusive snobbish clubs who exclude folks from rare spawns, the planes etc.

To players who are only on 3 hours a day, the fact that Uberguild A members are going to exclude you from a planes or dragon run means diddly squate because they know you will never invite them anyway. They also know they have a choice of logging on- walking in and saying, "pnp- let me in rotation" or logging on, wandering around 3 hours, finding everything camped, and then logging out.

PNP is specifically put in to allow casual players some way to enjoy the game in the face of people who log on at 6am and play for 15 hours.

If you weren't camping things for literally 24 hours straight then perhaps these rules wouldn't be needed.

I've never used pnp yet myself- I play about 4-6 hours a day. But if I only had 3 hours a day I would use it regularly. Most of the uber folk are going to burn out and not be playing in another 6 months anyway.

You are so wrapped up in your uberguild world that you have no empathy for what it is like for people who can't play 10 hours per sitting.

Are some folks jerks? Yes.
Should PNP mean they get the NEXT spawn- No.

But PNP should mean- you are here- that means you get next spawn and after that we share. If a third person walks up, then they can sit and wait for the third spawn. It sucks but it isn't really the players fault. Verant is the one who has loaded 1000 person servers to over 2000 people without raising the rate that rare items come into the game.

If previously an item entered the game every 8 hours, you had 5 people competing for it, now you have 10.

But given that they are letting the servers inflate, the only way to make it fair to casual players is to have PNP.
planes = Raid. Dragon Run = Raid.

[Whirled]

Ikon for server president.
Dude gives tons of proof and still y'all cling to the pixels crying no no no no no

[Kagey]

just another casual asking for free pixels.

[Ravager]

just another casual asking for free pixels.
Do you subscribe by the month, or go with 3 month packages to save money?

[maskedmelon]

Its opinion and illogical. Once again evidence or your just wasting your time posting your opinion.

Heres a post that might interest you:


planes = Raid. Dragon Run = Raid.

Those are more examples of players trying to claim ownership of spawns or areas (like MM CE) for example, which was a violation of the pnp. Yeah, early guilds actually did try to do that, but SoE said, nope, can't, so players started contesting and voila, we have the raid system that lasted up until instances content.

No guilds on p99 assert ownership of anything (except for mobs they actively killing which are protected under ks rules). Everyone does have equal access.

The situation that is discussing is more like if you were to walk into TOV (or like what happened in classic pof/poh) and CSG be like, "GET OUT, CSG camping zone." It does t happen. It does t even happen with spawns thankfully ^^ Point is, you players cannot claim ownership of things. Nobody does that here except in xp groups and single party or less named cash camps.

[Ikon]

Those are more examples of players trying to claim ownership of spawns or areas (like MM CE) for example, which was a violation of the pnp. Yeah, early guilds actually did try to do that, but SoE said, nope, can't, so players started contesting and voila, we have the raid system that lasted up until instances content.

No guilds on p99 assert ownership of anything (except for mobs they actively killing which are protected under ks rules). Everyone does have equal access.

The situation that is discussing is more like if you were to walk into TOV (or like what happened in classic pof/poh) and CSG be like, "GET OUT, CSG camping zone." It does t happen. It does t even happen with spawns thankfully ^^ Point is, you players cannot claim ownership of things. Nobody does that here except in xp groups and single party or less named cash camps.
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] Players on EverQuest:
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] ---------------------------
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Wrowinson <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [65 Deceiver] Lini (Wood Elf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Lojack <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Erskin <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Jophes <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Sumii <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [65 Coercer] Sinua (High Elf) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Lilheart <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Elioeye <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Zangeist <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Nariek <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Devinerain <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Shadefist <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:35 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Fredrick <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Yossarian <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Doomdealer <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Draknorx
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Transcendent] Turismo (Human) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Ghuda <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Aalain <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Storm Warden] Laeenu (Wood Elf) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Boomchopp <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Swissor <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Deceiver] Kyhvir (High Elf) LFG
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Zealya <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Forest Stalker] Talferian (Wood Elf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Draxx <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Forest Stalker] Denauticus (Half Elf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Araekin <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Desstiny <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Overlord] Davoc (Barbarian) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Maccuul <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Messha <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Forest Stalker] Feeta (Unknown) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Lord Protector] Qenan (High Elf) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Jynxo <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Arch Convoker] Emirkol (Erudite) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Overlord] Calanar (Human) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Feral Lord] Kalyine (Vah Shir) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Dwanor <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Rhomna <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Arcanist] Macomber (Human) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Archon] Nowred (Dwarf) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] <LINKDEAD>[ANONYMOUS] Kugbok <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Crylyn <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Pixa <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Acklar <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Transcendent] Andarss (Iksar) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Korfan <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Griven <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Gorefeast <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Kanundrum <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Psyth <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Archon] Crazicus (Dwarf)
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Dread Lord] Zzyp (Iksar) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Aerofist <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Girazze <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Ceci <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Coercer] Lietzau (Dark Elf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Maestro] Taqwus (Wood Elf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Qumdain
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Arch Convoker] Bini (Human)
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Lord Protector] Jaargen (Dwarf) <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Dread Lord] Arcanion (Dark Elf)
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Giga LFG
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Egglethorpe <Sterling Order of Knights>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Maestro] Aphra (Human) <The Folk>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Deceiver] Ashbane (Wood Elf) LFG
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Storm Warden] Starpiercer (Human) <The Folk>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Deceiver] Idari (Wood Elf) LFG
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Rixsar <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Archon] Boremir (Dwarf) <Counterfeit>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Overlord] Khricket (Barbarian) <Talons of Fire>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Maestro] Passinbye (Half Elf) <Talons of Fire>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Arcanist] Tarabella (Dark Elf) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Deceiver] Faradim (Barbarian) <Caelum Infinitum>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] * GM * [65 Lord Protector] Jamlamin (Gnome)
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Lidokidz <Talons of Fire>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] [65 Storm Warden] Havsum (Wood Elf) <Talons of Fire>
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:36 2004] There are 79 players in Reef of Coirnav.
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:48 2004] Passinbye tells the guild, 'GM made all of severed leave lol'
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:54 2004] Reizack tells the guild, 'hah'
[Sun Mar 07 21:18:55 2004] Milween tells the guild, 'there is a shocker'
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:01 2004] Players in EverQuest:
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:01 2004] ---------------------------

[Sun Mar 07 21:19:01 2004] * GM-Admin *[65 Lord Protector] Jamlamin (Gnome) ZONE: powater
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:01 2004] * Apprentice Guide *[20 Bard] Dacronis (Wood Elf) ZONE: timorous
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:01 2004] There are 2 players in EverQuest.
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:12 2004] Southside tells the guild, 'haha CI still has that gm on there payroll'
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:19 2004] Jamlamin shouts, 'Talons of Fire - A Corinav Event is currently going

on. Please leave the zone till it is over.'
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:26 2004] Coirnav the Avatar of Water shouts 'Those that violate my domain will

pay. I call upon the power imbued to me by Tarew Marr! Come forth minions of water and destroy

these intruders.'
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:28 2004] You say, 'rofl'
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:35 2004] Tarabella cheers at Jamlamin.
[Sun Mar 07 21:19:49 2004] Skyll tells the guild, 'GM Jamlamin in water. never heard of him

before'
[Sun Mar 07 21:20:03 2004] Lidokidz tells you, 'zone out'
[Sun Mar 07 21:20:05 2004] Jamlamin shouts, 'GM Jamlamin here. If you are not part of the event,

you are out of the zone. Talons of fire you will be ported out of the zone.'
[Sun Mar 07 21:20:11 2004] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Sun Mar 07 21:20:38 2004] You have entered The Plane of Tranquility.


Left the zone 20 seconds after I was asked to.

Once again this was not about griefing and about a GM that has a history of, and still is enforcing rules that make absolutly no sense whatsoever.

[FatMice]

What kind of casual keeps logs from 2004?

[nyclin]

Your personal experience of whether it was enforced or not is irrelevant unless you were a GM or Guide. The majority of petitions, likely 99.99999% (the ones you didn't petition yourself) you had no idea about and no experience of.

was a guide for 3 years on vazaelle, zebuxoruk, and vallon zek

GMs didn't enforce rotations on any of those servers, nor most of the servers I played on or had friends on: all of the zeks, veeshan, rathe, xev, fennin ro

stormhammer (the $36/mo server) did have a GM enforced rotation, and mobs/zones were repopped for each rotation slot

p99 could stand to use stormhammer's model tbh, but too many people would cry about it for it to work

[Ikon]

was a guide for 3 years on vazaelle, zebuxoruk, and vallon zek

GMs didn't enforce rotations on any of those servers, nor most of the servers I played on or had friends on: all of the zeks, veeshan, rathe, xev, fennin ro

stormhammer (the $36/mo server) did have a GM enforced rotation, and mobs/zones were repopped for each rotation slot

p99 could stand to use stormhammer's model tbh, but too many people would cry about it for it to work
They did enforce the PnP. The PnP required that players worked out rotations and any guild that was jumping dragons and denying them to others would have been subject to the PnP.

[Kagey]

rotations on Dro consisted of 2 guilds only. new expansions allowed other guilds to enter zones that were no longer populated.

This will not work with 8 guilds.

[Ikon]

Of btw those logs are from.... Fenin Ro - link (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-6957.html). You may think your memory of 17 years ago is good but its assuredly not good.

[FatMice]

Ikon maybe you should have keep reading...

Sony's answer to my emails. Basically they said sorry you were removed from a zone because of an issue with 2 OTHER guilds.

Sure makes perfect sense to me now.


Greetings again,

This was done due the to lack of cooperation and prior issues with this conflict. It was to keep the issues that were occurring at bay and under control. The matter as I have stated was something that I can not go in details on, again I do apologize that you were removed, but no, we normally will not take such measures. This is something that we try to avoid at all costs, but the circumstances at the time called for the actions that were taken.

May the spirits guard your travels,

GM Daleynn
Heather Guthridge
Sony Online Entertainment
hguthridge@soe.sony.com
When responding to this email, please include our previous correspondence. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:38 PM
To: Guthridge, Heather
Subject: RE: In Game Concerns on Fennin Ro


Okay I understand why it happened but my concern is should it have happened? Does a GM have the right to tell anyone zoning into a zone to leave? Also is this something that my guild can request when we are doing events and scripts in certain zones specifically the elemental zones where zone lag can cause an event to be failed.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Guthridge, Heather [mailto:hguthridge@soe.sony.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 4:54 PM
To: XXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: In Game Concerns on Fennin Ro

Greetings,

This is GM Daleynn, I am sorry about the issues you had in Plane of Water the other evening. I do apologize for the matter, but you zoned in during an issue that had turned bad between two other guilds at that time. I can not go into details of the matter as you were not involved in the main issue, but will again apologize that you were caught in the midst of it.

May the spirits guard your travels,

GM Daleynn
Heather Guthridge
Sony Online Entertainment
hguthridge@soe.sony.com
When responding to this email, please include our previous correspondence. Thank you.

[maskedmelon]

Dont really need our memories :c Your posts do a pretty good job of invalidating your argument on their own :/ im sorry :c

Anyway, who excited to see what happens as these suspensions end? ^^

[icedwards]

Gonna go back to the way it was before until GMs step in, it's not rocket surgery.

[nyclin]

if you read that thread, posters explain that the Talons of Fire guy was asked to leave because his guild and the other guild had a history of disputes/griefing over the coirnav event

they also talk about rotations:

Rotations between my guild and others typically include the agreement that when one engages, the other(s) evacuate the zone. If it comes to a petition the GM would enforce this anyway. It occurs to me that there was a reason the GM was present. They don't make a habit of popping in on Fennin Ro server just to make nice-nice :/

this quote, to me, indicates that the rotations were player agreements which were given teeth by the GM staff when necessary - pretty much exactly as things occur here.

The only rotation I know of is the one between TMO, Severed, ToF for Time.

indicating that your log does not show a GM enforcing a rotation, but instead a GM taking action to prevent griefing

you are correct in that guides/gms enforced the pnp, but the pnp did not include raid rotations and raid disputes were generally hands-off unless there was exploiting or griefing involved

[Ikon]

Dont really need our memories :c Your posts do a pretty good job of invalidating your argument on their own :/ im sorry :c

Anyway, who excited to see what happens as these suspensions end? ^^
They're not my posts they're time relevant posts from the producer of Everquest, guides, GM's and as I said before 60+ and counting people who were playing at the time.

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP, that guilds and players were forced to share, and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

But I imagine you'll continue to pretend you don't see any evidence and that your opinion > all of the above. Thanks for the laughs.

[Ikon]

if you read that thread, posters explain that the Talons of Fire guy was asked to leave because his guild and the other guild had a history of disputes/griefing over the coirnav event

they also talk about rotations:



this quote, to me, indicates that the rotations were player agreements which were given teeth by the GM staff when necessary - pretty much exactly as things occur here.



indicating that your log does not show a GM enforcing a rotation, but instead a GM taking action to prevent griefing

you are correct in that guides/gms enforced the pnp, but the pnp did not include raid rotations and raid disputes were generally hands-off unless there was exploiting or griefing involved
Exactly. Meaning if that same GM was in NTov and a guild was already in there and some other guild zoned in and started training dragons over the top of them to entrance that 2nd guild would have been ported out of NTov. Right?

[nyclin]

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP

nobody disputed this

that guilds and players were forced to share

wrong - the thread you linked, if anything, just casts doubt on this idea

and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

how is this different from p99? gms are active in player disputes every day, including raid disputes. things they do not do: enforce rotations (except where agreed to by players) or stop people from doing content so another group can "get their turn"

Exactly. Meaning if that same GM was in NTov and a guild was already in there and some other guild zoned in and started training dragons over the top of them to entrance that 2nd guild would have been ported out of NTov. Right?

sure, what does this have to do with rotations? your argument was that GMs enforced rotations on live servers, now we're talking about whether or not GMs took action against griefing

pick a point and stick to it

[maskedmelon]

They're not my posts they're time relevant posts from the producer of Everquest, guides, GM's and as I said before 60+ and counting people who were playing at the time.

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP, that guilds and players were forced to share, and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

But I imagine you'll continue to pretend you don't see any evidence and that your opinion > all of the above. Thanks for the laughs.

Not my opinion, it's Reason :c And you see it too now, it's the reason your argument shifting from rotations to sharing now. Just because you are wrong, doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get a different raid environment. Discussion is good, but you don't have to try to strong arm staff with dubious reasoning to get what you want. How is that any different from the rule lawyering by raid guilds or the competitive "take whatever your can" mentality that you are against? It's not, your attempting to force others to do what you want. Fortunately, you just didn't understand what those posts you shared meant. I wouldn't let it bother you though. There are other avenues for discussion and we all look silly sometimes ^^

[nyclin]

oh now you're going to conflate A/A's style of raiding with griefing, i see

[Ikon]

Not my opinion, it's Reason :c And you see it too now, it's the reason your argument shifting from rotations to sharing now. Just because you are wrong, doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get a different raid environment. Discussion is good, but you don't have to try to strong arm staff with dubious reasoning to get what you want. How is that any different from the rule lawyering by raid guilds or the competitive "take whatever your can" mentality that you are against? It's not, your attempting to force others to do what you want. Fortunately, you just didn't understand what those posts you shared meant. I wouldn't let it bother you though. There are other avenues for discussion and we all look silly sometimes ^^
If by conflate my argument with dubious reasoning you mean Evidence, something which you all seem to believe is trumped by opinion, yes absolutely.

I can link you a ton of other dubious reasoning from 2000+ if you like. I don't think it'll help get past your obvious bias and obfuscation though :)

[nyclin]

I can link you a ton of other dubious reasoning from 2000+ if you like. I don't think it'll help get past your obvious bias and obfuscation though :)

yes please, help me understand

[maskedmelon]

If by conflate my argument with dubious reasoning you mean Evidence, something which you all seem to believe is trumped by opinion, yes absolutely.

I can link you a ton of other dubious reasoning from 2000+ if you like. I don't think it'll help get past your obvious bias and obfuscation though :)

It not your lks ; it what you insist they mean :c I have no horse in this race though ^^ I have fun no matter what I do. Never been able to raid much due to rl time constraints. C'est la vie though eh? (^ ^)

[botrainer]

Plus side : Massively long ass windows on raid mobs (I think the repop was intented to help A / A by letting us non A/A players (the other 1200 players on this server) again kill dragons just after having killed them for velious repop timers to close the windows. Me for one, hopes this made windows even larger.

Down side: Just means nearly every A / A member logged in their CSG, FAV, Rustle alt toons and still raided anyways, upside the likely hood of them actually having got the pixels is likely very small but still, a raid ban should punish the player(s) not just the guild tags.

/rant off
/tinfoil-hat off

[nyclin]

Down side: Just means nearly every A / A member logged in their CSG, FAV, Rustle alt toons and still raided anyways, upside the likely hood of them actually having got the pixels is likely very small but still, a raid ban should punish the player(s) not just the guild tags.

they're EVERYWHERE, oh my god

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

[maskedmelon]

they're EVERYWHERE, oh my god

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Breaken, Detoxx & Nemce are all just socket puppets of Chest that he uses to contually rub salt in every casual's lingering wounds from the destruction of the rotation.

[Ikon]

yes please, help me understand

Seeing that video again reminds me of my shittiest encounter ever in the game.

Was quite sad going from joint-raids with a guild, to having them block our nToV progress (and their exclusive 2-guild ntov rotation) by training the living fuck out of us, going out of their way to fuck us more, and breaking GM enforced agreements.

Funny video. Shitty memories.

Don't think I've seen a worse slaughter ever since, at any level raid (and deliverate or otherwise)
Link (http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/15429/What-happend-to-Stasis?page=1#.WHd-QlV96Cg)

There is one other Time enabled guild on the server. What you are asking is impossible as the relationship between the two guilds makes the Hatfields and Mccoy's look like civilized beings. I won't go into details as I have no intention of dragging interguild politics to this board.

Suffice to say going to them and talking to them is not feasible at this time at any rate.

If the first guild isn't Quarm capable, it's pretty easy to enforce a rotation. Just get everyone to Time. Summon a guide. If the first guild wipes, they need to leave the zone so you get your chance.

Of course, they could do the same to you. It makes learning encounters that much more difficult. Most people are motivated to play nice when faced with this enviroment.

Yes it sucks but nothing much we can do until sony properly instances poTime instead of this half-baked thing they've got going now.Actually, I have heard that the GMs support the "multiple guilds cooperating" idea. Guilds that grief others by messing with their Time rotation don't stay guilds for long. Bannings and/or suspensions can go along with this as well. Welcome to the playground, ******s! :)

Link (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-6587.html)

Quick, Obfuscate and Reinterpret it to mean something else :)

[botrainer]

BONUS: a rotation (no matter how shitty it was, this was due to the sudden happening case that both guilds got hit at the time, something only seen once every 4 years) can be set up and with more talks an even better rotation could have been adjusted in a fair matter.

Sadly if it's not A / A brain trust, it can not happen. I've notice how most or all new raid rules is because Awakened or Aftermath thought of it, and created the rules (so it best benefits them when passed). It should be a joint task, and voted on not just something one guild says "sign on or fuck you" rules proposals. Each raiding group (CSA FAV, A , A, Kiitens who Divinity) should be allowed to propose new rules, change old ones, and have a vote take place. When/if more groups are in favor of proposals, it passes, and becomes law(unlike now when Awakened doesn't get their way, they throw a fit and force a change anyways). It can take time (like a 2 week discussion before a votes happen) but each raiding guild who can show the ability to raid certain targets / zones effectively should have the same amount of say about rule changes that directly affect them. I also believe guilds should work together to weed out people sticking their alts in to multiple guilds and compare certain aspects to ensure 1 player, 1 guild.

The days of 1 guild making rules to better suit their cause should be over (should have ended with TMO) and every guild who is able and willing to kill the targets in question should have say on tracking rules, FTE rules, and allowed tactics, etc for a healthy server going forward.

Such as if a guild is able to kill Kunark open zone dragons but not kill in VP, their vote wouldn't count towards changes in VP, only Kunark open zone dragons. Same goes for ToV Dragons, if a guild is able to kill every dragon besides a few key dragons, they should be allowed to vote for changes for all dragons besides key dragons. Each guild can openly post, and always discuss changes, and punishments for guilds unable, unwilling, or incapable of killing dragons. Doing this is the only way we as a community on this server can actually improve the server as whole.

[nyclin]

Link (http://prexus.yuku.com/topic/15429/What-happend-to-Stasis?page=1#.WHd-QlV96Cg)

post states gm intervention was to prevent griefing & enforce a player made agreement, but i'm sure you can find another post from that thread that will convince me

Link (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-6587.html)

first post literally suggests using GM assistance to force out one guild so that the other can kill quarm - lol? what does this have to do with rotations, other than the post including the words "rotation" and "guide"?
second post p much the same, guilds who grief other guilds are met with GM intervention

you almost had me convinced, maybe if you show me some more evidence that will bring me over

[Phantasm]

Ikon, let it go dude. THey aren't enforcing a rotation here. THey do actively answer queries and petitions from the players and police the PnP as best they can.

Besides, your links only make it seem like people *wanted* a GM enforced rotation (like you want now). Crazy how history repeats itself, I wonder if somebody is going to be quoting you 15 years from now like "See *THEY* had GM enforced rotations too*

[Linksfather]

If you want Dragons , get your running shoes on like everyone else. Kill your fte target within a hour and run for the next one. Ohh... Like everyone else

[Ikon]

Ikon, let it go dude. THey aren't enforcing a rotation here. THey do actively answer queries and petitions from the players and police the PnP as best they can.

Besides, your links only make it seem like people *wanted* a GM enforced rotation (like you want now). Crazy how history repeats itself, I wonder if somebody is going to be quoting you 15 years from now like "See *THEY* had GM enforced rotations too*
Who said I want a GM enforced rotation, I don't really care at all one way or the other, on a new server yeah it would be nice to actually have classic rules to go with classic gameplay - this server is unfortunately way past saving imo.

The statement from Sirken was - "The PnP was not enforced on all servers". My reply was to provide evidence that it actually was, evidence from Gordon Wrinn along with his Produce Letter stating it was, another statement from Gordon Wrinn dated a year later showing it was being enforced, a statement from a verified guide stating they enforced it, and threads from players of the period stating it was being enforce, and complaining that it was being enforced.

Then we had some pixel nerds come on and try to refute the evidence that I provided by pretending the word Spawn meant it didn't apply to dragons and raids - which I successfully was able to show to be incorrect - linking a post from a player who referred to it being enforced for plains and dragon runs.

Then because they were unable to 'win' that argument they shitted the goal posts over to something else, rotations, to which I provided evidence which refuted what they were trying unsuccessfully to show.

So at the end of this lovely exercise we have:

A number of posts from Gordon Wrinn, an associate producer of Everquest
A post from a guide
A post from 60+ everquest players.
And more

Vs

Someone that claims to have been a guide 17 years ago and knew the status of every petition on at least 4 or more servers from 2000 onwards.

And

A couple of pixel nerds opinions and memories from 17 years ago.

Wheres your money going?

[FatMice]

The statement from Sirken was - "The PnP was not enforced on all servers". My reply was to provide evidence that it actually was, evidence from Gordon Wrinn along with his Produce Letter stating it was, another statement from Gordon Wrinn dated a year later showing it was being enforced, a statement from a verified guide stating they enforced it, and threads from players of the period stating it was being enforce, and complaining that it was being enforced.

This proves you have a reading comprehension problem. Sirken never said this. Also, the links you provided we not regarding PNP but a single raid event where two guilds have a history of griefing. Only later to find out that a representative from SOE said they don't like or rarely interject in the manner the GM did. You must be reading what you expect to read not what people are actually writing to you. There is no point to argue with this individual if he isn't comprehending what we are all writing.

[Phantasm]

Welcome Ikon, new guide. Hes in charge of herding all the cats!

Either way, its a free server, dude. Chill out and have fun
Honestly have had like 5 issues in the 7 years Ive been on P99 and just about damn near all of them were addressed or resolved.

I think most important to note: Even if you do convince them GMs enforced the pnp, how you going to make them do that here? What are you trying to change? The free game we play has unpaid staff servicing it, gonna make a stink to them?

[nyclin]

The statement from Sirken was - "The PnP was not enforced on all servers".


wrong - you said rotations were enforced on every server, sirken said it wasn't true

Sirken's incorrect. There were rotations and they were enforced on live, no guild could repeatedly kill a mob(s) while denying it to others, especially trivial mobs, the only time a guild could have exclusive access to and farm a mob was when it was the only guild capable of killing that mob. - Ikon, angry casual

maybe on your server, but that's hardly a universal truth among all servers - Sirken

some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds
some pixel nerds


please link me some more posts which disprove your terrible, pointless argument

[Ikon]

Welcome Ikon, new guide. Hes in charge of herding all the cats!

Either way, its a free server, dude. Chill out and have fun
Honestly have had like 5 issues in the 7 years Ive been on P99 and just about damn near all of them were addressed or resolved.

I think most important to note: Even if you do convince them GMs enforced the pnp, how you going to make them do that here? What are you trying to change? The free game we play has unpaid staff servicing it, gonna make a stink to them?
More like herding monkeys to be honest. Look at the post above yours. I never linked anything to do with the PnP only 1 link regarding 1 raid....

I am having fun. This is called Rants and Flames for a reason, if they can't handle ranting and flaming they shouldn't be here.

[Phantasm]

Lots of research for someone having fun xD

Trying to convince people to play nice and getting backlash ~.~

[Ikon]

Lots of research for someone having fun xD

Trying to convince people to play nice and getting backlash ~.~
Actually the research was done a while ago, its from the thread I created called "In regards to monopolizing a spawn". And I wouldn't be here if I was worried about "backlash".

I welcome stupid replies they're entertaining.

[botrainer]

If you want Dragons , get your running shoes on like everyone else. Kill your fte target within a hour and run for the next one. Ohh... Like everyone else

These rules were pushed upon the server by the top 2 guilds, it wasnt agreed upon that "footraces" were the cure all be all to the problem on this server...it was to make it possible to cover more mobs, with fewer trackers....

Number of trackers / cothers needed for ToV / Kael weekly before footraces: Appox 3 PRE mob (wizard for TL box, FTE'er, coth mage)

Number of trackers needed for same mobs weekly: 1 group for ALL TOV dragons (1 to 2 trackers, 3 racers, now Spirit of wolf caster outside ToV) and 3 needed for Kael...

So going from 30 trackers needed weekly down to only needing 10, 1/3 the crew for the same outcome...Again back to my point of one guild making new rules to better suit their cause, I dont believe the whole server agreed on these terms.

[nyclin]

These rules were pushed upon the server by the top 2 guilds, it wasnt agreed upon that "footraces" were the cure all be all to the problem on this server...it was to make it possible to cover more mobs, with fewer trackers....

Number of trackers / cothers needed for ToV / Kael weekly before footraces: Appox 3 PRE mob (wizard for TL box, FTE'er, coth mage)

Number of trackers needed for same mobs weekly: 1 group for ALL TOV dragons (1 to 2 trackers, 3 racers, now Spirit of wolf caster outside ToV) and 3 needed for Kael...

So going from 30 trackers needed weekly down to only needing 10, 1/3 the crew for the same outcome...Again back to my point of one guild making new rules to better suit their cause, I dont believe the whole server agreed on these terms.

yeah don't wanna burst your bubble but csg/divinity were the ones pushing for footraces and lockout timers cause they thought it would allow them to crawl through ntov

AM supported the foot races because they were losing coth wars & were banking on nalken's scripted alt+tab jumping to win them mobs

summit was in april '16 and only a handful of csg/divinity people have even tried to run since then

Would You Like to Know More?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233734
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233102

[347skp]

Curious minds what to know:

Did Botrainer ever get his epic or was it given to a more worthwhile 2nd alt?

Is Ikon a millennial?

[Fragged]

On AB live we fought neck and neck, there was leap frogging and training - It was a huge mess.

[Fifield]

AM supported the foot races because they were losing coth wars & were banking on nalken's scripted alt+tab jumping to win them mobs

your 100% correct, it had nothing to do with the fact that detoxx loves racing and hates to coth.

banking on nalkens' scripts lol, hes just like you and I he just wants to win and pays attention, same for Mistin, Detoxx, Hjial, Kelz, Mani all those dudes. ( sorry if im missing any other good runners just using this as a reference )

[Sirken]

Gordon Wrinn was the Associate Producer of Everquest. This policy applied to EVERY SERVER in the game. words words words

we do not allow for raid targets to be controlled or claimed indefinitely either. every guild has the same chance to secure a raid mob, the only limits being those put upon themselves.

but parading those quotes to claim every server had a rotation is laughable at best. i don't know if you realize this, but a lot of us played EQLive and a lot of us raided there.

[BallzDeep]

Who said I want a GM enforced rotation, I don't really care at all one way or the other, on a new server yeah it would be nice to actually have classic rules to go with classic gameplay - this server is unfortunately way past saving imo.

The statement from Sirken was - "The PnP was not enforced on all servers". My reply was to provide evidence that it actually was, evidence from Gordon Wrinn along with his Produce Letter stating it was, another statement from Gordon Wrinn dated a year later showing it was being enforced, a statement from a verified guide stating they enforced it, and threads from players of the period stating it was being enforce, and complaining that it was being enforced.

Then we had some pixel nerds come on and try to refute the evidence that I provided by pretending the word Spawn meant it didn't apply to dragons and raids - which I successfully was able to show to be incorrect - linking a post from a player who referred to it being enforced for plains and dragon runs.

Then because they were unable to 'win' that argument they shitted the goal posts over to something else, rotations, to which I provided evidence which refuted what they were trying unsuccessfully to show.

So at the end of this lovely exercise we have:

A number of posts from Gordon Wrinn, an associate producer of Everquest
A post from a guide
A post from 60+ everquest players.
And more

Vs

Someone that claims to have been a guide 17 years ago and knew the status of every petition on at least 4 or more servers from 2000 onwards.

And

A couple of pixel nerds opinions and memories from 17 years ago.

Wheres your money going?

Your a fucking idiot dude. You obviously know shit of Everquest and you're just looking up old posts from people complaining and trying to recreate your nostalgia through their gaming experience even though you never experienced it yourself.

If you think PnP was in place you need to look up what type of shit Afterlife, Triton, FoH and other guilds were doing at the times. They were actively cockblocking each other not online on their server but cross server as well.

[BallzDeep]

online = only*

[maskedmelon]

online = only*

Good thing you clarified, my mind was straying to dark places...

[Maner]

Its opinion and illogical. Once again evidence or your just wasting your time posting your opinion.

Heres a post that might interest you:


planes = Raid. Dragon Run = Raid.

Lmfao idiot, the original poster is saying that him bringing up the pNP policy when it involves guilds that do planes and dragons will mean he won't get invited to them. The person is not referring to planes and dragons directly in regards to the pnp policy. This is just more proof that while pnp may have been enforced sometimes when dealing with groups and people soloing, it had nothing to do with raising.

[Triiz]

just another casual asking for free pixels.

If only these fuckin' freeloading casuals would work for their pixels...

only have 1 fte race on my belt.

Everyone knows you have to race once before you are entitled to pixels for eternity.

Get your asses on the line next week so you can sit back and talk shit about how no one else wants to "work" for their pixels for the next few years.

[maskedmelon]

If only these fuckin' freeloading casuals would work for their pixels...



Everyone knows you have to race once before you are entitled to pixels for eternity.

Get your asses on the line next week so you can sit back and talk shit about how no one else wants to "work" for their pixels for the next few years.

Why don't you get your ass on the line for your guild and HAVE FUN. And if you realize that you suck like me, just provide moral support for you team （＾∇＾）It not like someone is asking you wash with sandpaper and rinse with salt water, sheesh.

[Kagey]

If only these fuckin' freeloading casuals would work for their pixels...



Everyone knows you have to race once before you are entitled to pixels for eternity.

Get your asses on the line next week so you can sit back and talk shit about how no one else wants to "work" for their pixels for the next few years.

I track and leave that to the pros, when your guild starts you should be getting dkp for racing, tracking, and even things like sowing your fellow friends outside of tov. If not id create some union and go buckwyld.

[Kagey]

But my 1 yellow text was vulak so that earned me tani points. Which can be turned in at your local chic fillet.

[Zekayy]

Play uthgard let the neckbeards have tov 3000 people online during primetime do it dont be bad

[Triiz]

Why don't you get your ass on the line for your guild and HAVE FUN.

Ehh, if I wanted to play a wall staring game, I'd stare at a wall. If I wanted to race, I'd play a racing game. If I wanted to be a top dog on p99, I'd quit my job and grow my beard. None of that sounds appealing or fun to me.

I already have fun playing p99, otherwise I'd stop playing.

But I also enjoy calling bullshit as I see it, and saying others just "want free pixels" literally one day after saying "I've only raced once" in a related thread is some top notch bullshit.

[Triiz]

I track and leave that to the pros

Ah got it. So afk for a few hours then reap the rewards? Hope the casuals are taking notes on how to earn their pixels.

Maybe I should put an app in. I afk with the best of em and can loot as fast as any one on the server.

[Joyelle]

Ehh, if I wanted to play a wall staring game, I'd stare at a wall. If I wanted to race, I'd play a racing game. If I wanted to be a top dog on p99, I'd quit my job and grow my beard. None of that sounds appealing or fun to me.

I already have fun playing p99, otherwise I'd stop playing.

But I also enjoy calling bullshit as I see it, and saying others just "want free pixels" literally one day after saying "I've only raced once" in a related thread is some top notch bullshit.

He's raced more than once, just only gotten one FTE.

[Fifield]

But my 1 yellow text was vulak so that earned me tani points. Which can be turned in at your local chic fillet.

If your gonna get a yellow text, may as well make it a vulak yellow text

[Zekayy]

Let me get this straight. So you come on the forum of a game that people like playing that you seem to not enjoy playing in the fashion a lot of people here do. So in turn you bash the way people choose to play. Re-evaluate your life goals

Play Uthgard

[Maner]

Play Uthgard

right now you are the probably the biggest reason more people dont go play uthgard....

[Kagey]

right now you are the probably the biggest reason more people dont go play uthgard....

lol'd

[Zekayy]

right now you are the probably the biggest reason more people dont go play uthgard....

Uthgard is doing much better than p99 currently 2500 people online how many are on p99 right now? 1106 thats a big difference....

[Zekayy]

Most people dont like change but if you're not afriaid of change come try it out if you're sick of the corrupt gms, the 16 hour poopsocking, its a very nice game.

[Triiz]

Let me get this straight. So you come on the forum of a game that people like playing that you seem to not enjoy playing in the fashion a lot of people here do. So in turn you bash the way people choose to play. Re-evaluate your life goals


Let me get this straight. You play on this server and are under the impression the majority of players think FTE races are "fun" or even participate in them? If by "a lot of people" you mean a small portion of two guilds then yes. In the other thread A/A even said it's a small portion of their guilds that race. "A lot of people" lolz

But yeah, when a guy with a name "bigmoneybabybaby" tells me to re-evaluate my life goals I take it seriously. Obvious IRL baller, thinks staring at walls is fun, clearly doesn't need to re-evaluate life goals.

[Swish]

Let me get this straight. You play on this server and are under the impression the majority of players think FTE races are "fun" or even participate in them? If by "a lot of people" you mean a small portion of two guilds then yes. In the other thread A/A even said it's a small portion of their guilds that race. "A lot of people" lolz

But yeah, when a guy with a name "bigmoneybabybaby" tells me to re-evaluate my life goals I take it seriously. Obvious IRL baller, thinks staring at walls is fun, clearly doesn't need to re-evaluate life goals.

you can feel the emotions

[Papa]

agree bigmoneybabybaby posts very angrily and emotionally

[burkemi5]

a lot of people here do

I really hope you're trolling.

[Ikon]

Lmfao idiot, the original poster is saying that him bringing up the pNP policy when it involves guilds that do planes and dragons will mean he won't get invited to them. The person is not referring to planes and dragons directly in regards to the pnp policy. This is just more proof that while pnp may have been enforced sometimes when dealing with groups and people soloing, it had nothing to do with raising.
So much emotion :) I love it.

You contradicted yourself. The very fact he is worried bringing up the PnP policy will not get him invited to raids is indicative that he can bring up the PnP policy in regards to dragons and planes....

Like shooting retarded fish in a very small barrel :)

[Swish]

You wonder if GM applications have gone up or down since all this end game lawyering has gotten worse :o

I'm going with up :p

[kotton05]

You wonder if GM applications have gone up or down since all this end game lawyering has gotten worse :o

I'm going with up :p

Need one for each zone on p99 imo

[Suwu]

this shit dies down around primetime, i suspect JOBS!

who celebrates Robert E Lee/ Stonewall Jackson Day?!!!!


this guy does wooo wooo