an idea that'd benefit lots of people [Archive]

karsten

02-02-2010, 06:52 PM

hi guys!

So, before lustrous russet was removed, my guild (including myself) were all foaming at the mouth for PoH to be released. So, in the patch where the cryosilk robe and the lustrous russet was removed we thought "sweet, they're removing that stuff according to the natural timeline progression, that means PoH is coming out!"

but that was like a month ago, and we've gone from foaming at the mouth to being bored and playing grabass! (fun, but also gets boring)

I have a set of lustrous russet armor -- so this isn't for me, but i propose to put lustrous russet back into the game until PoH comes out! It'd be beneficial to all of divinity, most of transc, some of IB, and any other possible guilds that wanted to hop into fear. Would also give people something to do. We're currently in a sort of limbo state.

Thoughts?

Goobles

02-02-2010, 06:54 PM

*Like*

Hasbinbad

02-02-2010, 06:59 PM

I like this idea if they made the drop rate a lot lower.. Maybe 1/5 or 1/10 what it was before. That would pretty much guarantee fear being cleared at all times (giving people stuff to do) from now until hate opens, without seeing TOO much more LR on the server.

Ektar

02-02-2010, 07:07 PM

it kills me the only piece of LR I need was ninja looted at the gm event by a level 1 =p

Finawin

02-02-2010, 07:36 PM

This is a good idea.

Dabamf

02-02-2010, 09:39 PM

Other option: open hate?

karsten

02-02-2010, 09:49 PM

yeah, or open hate -- either way, just do something *please!*

vageta31

02-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Uh I don't think lowering the drop rate makes any sense seeing as Hasbinbad has near a full set... Why is it always *after* you get what you want that it's decided to nerf the drop rate? Who cares if other people get pieces or not.. LR isn't required to kill any of the boss mobs in this game so it's not like letting other guilds get it will screw up the game for you..

This is a re-living of the classic experience. People are wanting to do things that they may not have been able to do the last time around. When Kunark comes out most of the classic world loot becomes worthless and is no drop so won't be able to be handed down, so who cares if there are a greater number of people in the game with the same loot as you? When Kunark comes out the people that are achievers will still be ahead of the curve and get the best drops first, regardless how many of the other people managed to get old world uber loot.

Yes this game rewards those that level and achieve things quickly, but to say something should be brought back in the game but much rarer after you already have most of it is a bit arrogant no?

"Gee I've managed to farm 5 rubi BP's, let's nerf it this patch so that no one else can!"

Asking for something to be more rare after you've gotten it is selfish. On that note I could care less if they add it back in or not, but if they do why nerf it? Why not give others the same chance you had?

Hasbinbad

02-02-2010, 10:27 PM

..Hasbinbad has near a full set..
False.

Hasbinbad

02-02-2010, 10:29 PM

Why is it always *after* you get what you want that it's decided to nerf the drop rate?
..and LOL, I'm trying to help you guys get SOME AT ALL. Right now NONE AT ALL drops. Do you really think the GM's are likely to do this at all? Probably a more realistic expectation if you limit it somehow if you ask me.

Sorry for trying to help!

Zithax

02-02-2010, 10:39 PM

keep droprate the same and profit

Hasbinbad

02-03-2010, 12:04 AM

If you guys can con the GM's into it, more powah to you!! XD

Jify

02-03-2010, 12:54 AM

it kills me the only piece of LR I need was ninja looted at the gm event by a level 1 =p

I feel you Ektar. Indasha ninja'd my pegasus cloak and open flaunted it about in ooc. I'm still waiting to get my cloak. H8 ninja lewters & griefers taking advantage of the lack of GMs & guides.

Oh.. and /unhijack.

Bring back the LR!

karsten

02-03-2010, 12:55 AM

thread is essentially very simple -- let's either bring back lustrous russet or open hate, YEAHHHHHHH

Dabamf

02-03-2010, 02:03 AM

Why is it always *after* you get what you want that it's decided to nerf the drop rate?
lololol

The drop rate is 0. He's advocating increasing it to something more than 0.

Don't you feel dumb now?

Ektar

02-03-2010, 02:10 AM

Damn. I mean, I try to stay away from forum posting, but I keep getting drawn back in... I've been able to turn away from a simple dumb comment here and there, sometimes just abandoning the entire thread to save myself.. but this one.. oh lordy lord.

Uh I don't think lowering the drop rate makes any sense seeing as Hasbinbad has near a full set... Why is it always *after* you get what you want that it's decided to nerf the drop rate?

So yeah hasbin already slapped you for this comment, but it's more than just ignorance of the fact LR stopped dropping. See above (quoted below)...

hi guys!

So, before lustrous russet was removed...

It was, like, flat out said. No "high end" knowledge required; no research required. Hi, FIRST thing said in the whole thread. Kinda set the tone for the whole post, so you'd think this would explain the rest of the silliness... but it does not.

This is a re-living of the classic experience. People are wanting to do things that they may not have been able to do the last time around.

Yeah... not as you're putting it. This is a recreation of the classic experience. People may want to do things that they may not have been able to do the last time around, but the server doesn't care. This project is not meant to get everyone a DE mask, manastone, LR, etc. - this has been made clear by Nilbog. This is his project to recreate EQ 99 style, and we are mere numbers and charts to him.

On that note I could care less if they add it back in or not

Apparently you're aware that LR was taken out? Not touchin this one anymore than that...

but if they do why nerf it? Why not give others the same chance you had?

Well this one has been hit upon too, but uh: because it's not supposed to be in anymore.

karsten

02-03-2010, 02:19 AM

let's either bring lustrous russet back into the game, or release PoH

Tristin

02-03-2010, 04:10 AM

Tristin

02-03-2010, 04:12 AM

let's either bring lustrous russet back into the game, or release PoH

this one toos

Jify

02-03-2010, 09:07 AM

let's either bring lustrous russet back into the game, or release PoH

By all the power invested in me as Doug. I also approve this message.

Simon Belmont

02-03-2010, 09:25 AM

Mages and Enchanters would probably like the cryo robe back in if this is also considered.

guineapig

02-03-2010, 10:26 AM

Mages and Enchanters would probably like the cryo robe back in if this is also considered.

Yes but that doesn't benefit Karsten.
He wants more Russet or PoHate, not a robe.

Trimm

02-03-2010, 11:05 AM

vageta31

02-03-2010, 11:08 AM

Apparently you're aware that LR was taken out? Not touchin this one anymore than that...

I guess you didn't read clearly enough. I'm fully aware of LR being taken out and it never bothered me. All that I'm saying is that asking for it to be brought back into game, but make it more rare is pointless and looks selfish since they very people wanting it back in seem to already have a bunch of it. Simply leave it out and move on, or if asking for it to be put back in then let it drop as much as it used to.

And yes of course this is a recreation of the classic eq experience so not everyone will get everything they want "just because they didn't get it last time". But if the LR drop rate was so high was that a recreation as well? Were you guys griping about the drop rate on LR when you were the ones benefiting from it? "Gee LR is dropping far too much, please GM's fix it!" No.. it's "We want LR back in game since there's no Hate yet, but make it much rarer!"

Goobles

02-03-2010, 12:14 PM

Legitimate question: Are we past-due for PoH? I'm not very sure on the timeline.

I'd love to get a suit of russet, but if the classic timeline had it removed well before Hate was released, so be it. I'm playing on this server to get as close as possible to the classic EQ experience, that includes the good and the bad.

Answer: No. Stop speculating on the timeline, imo. If you don't have the research skills to figure it out for yourself, then you shouldn't worry about it.

Trimm

02-03-2010, 12:40 PM

What I meant is from day 1 the Devs stated they will be following the original timeline as close as possible. Russet is removed, Hate is released later... Whats the problem. There's no reason to implement non-classic elements to the game to satisfy players who rushed to 50 and have run out of content already.

Simon Belmont

02-03-2010, 02:31 PM

IIRC :

April 1999 EQ started

October 1999 (Halloweeen) PoH opened.

We are a few months off from hate if this is the timeline.

Witness

02-03-2010, 02:45 PM

I really wish devs/gm's would just instantly lock any thread from people asking for more content or whatever. Yes I already have a level 50, yes im close to having my second level 50, yes ill make many more level 50s, and yes I am bored of the current raiding.

get over it.

Witness

02-03-2010, 02:48 PM

Ektar

02-03-2010, 02:55 PM

I guess you didn't read clearly enough. I'm fully aware of LR being taken out and it never bothered me. All that I'm saying is that asking for it to be brought back into game, but make it more rare is pointless and looks selfish since they very people wanting it back in seem to already have a bunch of it. Simply leave it out and move on, or if asking for it to be put back in then let it drop as much as it used to.

And yes of course this is a recreation of the classic eq experience so not everyone will get everything they want "just because they didn't get it last time". But if the LR drop rate was so high was that a recreation as well? Were you guys griping about the drop rate on LR when you were the ones benefiting from it? "Gee LR is dropping far too much, please GM's fix it!" No.. it's "We want LR back in game since there's no Hate yet, but make it much rarer!"

Okay well I'm gonna take a less disrespectful tone now because I'm going to blame misunderstanding and mistaken sentence structure for the first case.

Originally, LR wasn't some mystical OMG YAY armor. It was just LR, and cryosilk. LR dropped just like it did here. the drop rate wasn't "too high" like you're trying to shove into our mouths. Class specific armor didn't drop but they left it in here and that's not really in my power to explain why (I didn't go to fear before hate came out but I'm fairly certain that's how it was...).

However, the deal is that LR was taken out, 0% drop rate. A reduced drop rate is merely a middle ground. Like hasbi nsaid, if you can get them to get full drop rate in good for you.

Personally I don;'t think it's gonna happen at all, and even trying is silly. Like I said, we're just numbers and charts =p

karsten

02-03-2010, 06:54 PM

Yes but that doesn't benefit Karsten.
He wants more Russet or PoHate, not a robe.

I have a set of lustrous russet armor -- so this isn't for me

:confused:

Finawin

02-03-2010, 06:58 PM

Haters will hate regardless!

guineapig

02-03-2010, 07:10 PM

:confused:

I did say one or the other, didn't I?
Show me where my statement is false.

Dabamf

02-03-2010, 08:38 PM

I did say one or the other, didn't I?
Show me where my statement is false.

The unstated conclusion (and purpose) of your original statement is that Karsten only wants what directly benefits him.

But, he proposed 2 options that will make him happy.
One of those options does not directly benefit him.

Therefore he is happy with an option that does not benefit him.
Therefore the unstated conclusion, and purpose, of your original post is completely wrong.

You can thank PHL 363: Informal Logic from 5 years ago for that thrashing.

P.S. I still hate Karsten

karsten

02-03-2010, 08:42 PM

I'd also like at this time to mention the fact that paladin armor doesn't drop in PoH, and I also already have a full set of valorium.

guineapig

02-03-2010, 09:34 PM

The unstated conclusion (and purpose) of your original statement is that Karsten only wants what directly benefits him.

But, he proposed 2 options that will make him happy.
One of those options does not directly benefit him.

Therefore he is happy with an option that does not benefit him.
Therefore the unstated conclusion, and purpose, of your original post is completely wrong.

You can thank PHL 363: Informal Logic from 5 years ago for that thrashing.

P.S. I still hate Karsten

I didn't want to get into this but:

if 1 part of an A or B statement is true, then the statement is true.

As far as the benefit goes, not every member of his guild is geared up like he is so gearing up the guild could conceivably also benefit him in his quest to be more uber.
(I never said anything about a direct benefit...)

So the statement was not false.

Dabamf

02-03-2010, 10:27 PM

It's not an A or B statement, it's an A AND B statement.

Yes but that doesn't benefit Karsten.
He wants more Russet or PoHate, not a robe.
Stated premise: Cryo robe doesn't benefit Karsten.
Unstated, but implied premise: Karsten only wants what benefits him.
Stated premise: LR satisfies him AND PoH satisfies him.

Unstated Conclusion: Both LR and PoH benefit Karsten

Conclusion follows logically from the premises you provided.

If he only wants what benefits him, and he wants LR back in game, then that implies that LR benefits him.

As far as the benefit goes, not every member of his guild is geared up like he is so gearing up the guild could conceivably also benefit him in his quest to be more uber.
(I never said anything about a direct benefit...)
Actually you implied it, because cryo robe could benefit IB casters as well, yet you said he doesn't care about cryo robe. If he is happy with LR due to it benefiting his guild, they he'd also be happy about cryo robe due to it benefiting his guild. But you said he doesn't want cryo robe, SOOOOOOO he can't want LR just because it benefits his guild, according to you.

I want people to be accountable for the stupid things they say and not let them weasel out of it when cornered. It's the whole anti-hardcore mentality that is rampant among casual players here, saying some underhanded criticism of a person then backing down when called out. And that's exactly what you're doing. You made some snyde remark about someone only wanting what benefits them, then when called out you back down and try to change what you said.

Sincerely,
Guy with no classes to teach today and entirely too much time to kill

Hasbinbad

02-03-2010, 11:10 PM

Oh Dabamf..

You're giving this guy FAR too much credit. I doubt VERY seriously he understood, much less intended, the (correct) implications he made. Srsly. Most people are somewhat capable of loosely assembling familiar words into a structure which can convey basic meaning, but generally they are incapable of building structures of phrases into anything that remotely resembles a complete sentence. Do you really expect comprehension?

karsten

02-03-2010, 11:28 PM

gearing up the guild could conceivably also benefit him in his quest to be more uber.
(I never said anything about a direct benefit...)

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/picard-facepalm.jpg

guineapig

02-03-2010, 11:52 PM

It's not an A or B statement, it's an A AND B statement.

Stated premise: Cryo robe doesn't benefit Karsten.
Unstated, but implied premise: Karsten only wants what benefits him.
Stated premise: LR satisfies him AND PoH satisfies him.

Unstated Conclusion: Both LR and PoH benefit Karsten

Conclusion follows logically from the premises you provided.

If he only wants what benefits him, and he wants LR back in game, then that implies that LR benefits him.

Actually you implied it, because cryo robe could benefit IB casters as well, yet you said he doesn't care about cryo robe. If he is happy with LR due to it benefiting his guild, they he'd also be happy about cryo robe due to it benefiting his guild. But you said he doesn't want cryo robe, SOOOOOOO he can't want LR just because it benefits his guild, according to you.

I want people to be accountable for the stupid things they say and not let them weasel out of it when cornered. It's the whole anti-hardcore mentality that is rampant among casual players here, saying some underhanded criticism of a person then backing down when called out. And that's exactly what you're doing. You made some snyde remark about someone only wanting what benefits them, then when called out you back down and try to change what you said.

Sincerely,
Guy with no classes to teach today and entirely too much time to kill

You only lost me when you dropped the word stupid. For somebody who is apparently quite educated I would assume that something like that would be beneath you… Apparently not. It does nothing for your argument however and I don’t play the name calling game.

It was an “OR” statement in the fact that he asked for one OR the other. He was not asking for both which would have made it an “AND” statement. Also, your assumption that I was specifically referring to an exclusive benefit is still just that, no matter how you word it.

I can admit that you’re correct that about my oversight about not taking the robe into account when I made my statement, but you loose points in the catergory of debating etiquette. Take whatever implication you will from that statement . ;)

Erasong

02-04-2010, 12:22 AM

this thread now sucks. back on topic imo. moar LR

Hasbinbad

02-04-2010, 12:56 AM

you loose points in the catergory of debating etiquette.
As far as I can tell, he wasn't debating etiquette. Hoow can he loose pooints in a catergoory in which he wasn't invoolved?
this thread now sucks. back on topic imo. moar LR
No wai! This thread rocks!
Good luck getting LR! *cheers you on*

karsten

02-04-2010, 01:10 AM

i see what you did there

Jify

02-04-2010, 02:12 AM

September, 1999 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html) - They talk about PoH & PoSky porting spells existing prior to September 1999.
October, 199 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html)9 - Sol Ro Released.

Other fun tid bit.
May, 2000 - "Increased the number of frightfingers in the Plane of Fear. Previously only 3 frightfingers would pop per respawn. "

I didn't play classic classic classic. So I don't know if Allakhazam notes are to be trusted. But hey, seems like PoSky/PoHate come out before Sol Ro right? (what I was really looking for was the date LR was removed, because i'm 99% sure when it was removed, class gear was introduced...)

Strossus

02-04-2010, 02:43 AM

guineapig

02-04-2010, 08:05 AM

As far as I can tell, he wasn't debating etiquette. Hoow can he loose pooints in a catergoory in which he wasn't invoolved?

Speaking of a lack of comprehension: "debating etiquette" is the subject I was referring to, NOT a debate about etiquette.... :D

Simon Belmont

02-04-2010, 02:30 PM

guineapig

02-04-2010, 02:45 PM

I didnt mean to start any of this, I was merely trying to add on the fact that robes should drop as well. Now that Divinity is doing PoF if LR started dropping Id think that would benefit them as well, no?

That's true it would benefit us but I highly doubt that the devs are going to change their minds on the removal of those items.

It's cool though. With the exception of a Main Tank or possibly someone who does everything solo, a few nicer pieces of gear really isn't what's going to save your ass in a group or a raid.
I wouldn't say no to it, but I won't die without it.

(Resist gear might be another story though, but that's another discussion all together.)

guineapig

02-04-2010, 02:57 PM

I didn't play classic classic classic. So I don't know if Allakhazam notes are to be trusted. But hey, seems like PoSky/PoHate come out before Sol Ro right? (what I was really looking for was the date LR was removed, because i'm 99% sure when it was removed, class gear was introduced...)

Copied from my post in another thread:

Temple of Solusek Ro: October 13th, 1999
Battle of Bloody Kithicor / Plane of Hate: October 31st, 1999 (estimate)
Plane of Sky: January, 2000
Kunark: March (or April), 2000
Ruins of Old Paineel (The Hole): June 22, 2000

Scrooge

02-04-2010, 03:12 PM

let's either bring lustrous russet back into the game, or release PoH

And Cryosilk Robe!

vageta31

02-04-2010, 03:23 PM

From the patch message listed on Jify's link it says that rubicite was pulled out in the same patch that Sol Ro was added.

Jify

02-05-2010, 01:13 AM

Copied from my post in another thread:

Temple of Solusek Ro: October 13th, 1999
Battle of Bloody Kithicor / Plane of Hate: October 31st, 1999 (estimate)
Plane of Sky: January, 2000
Kunark: March (or April), 2000
Ruins of Old Paineel (The Hole): June 22, 2000

But, when was LR removed? I've heard that when it was removed, class specific gear was brought into the game. Currently only 1/2 of the class specific planar loot is in game, and LR is gone.

If LR was removed, and then PoH gear was changed, that would mean PoH would have to be released for LR to be removed. right?

Spud

02-05-2010, 01:31 AM

But, when was LR removed? I've heard that when it was removed, class specific gear was brought into the game. Currently only 1/2 of the class specific planar loot is in game, and LR is gone.

If LR was removed, and then PoH gear was changed, that would mean PoH would have to be released for LR to be removed. right?

I think just the PoF class specific armor was put in initially when LR was removed and then eventually came the rest of it with PoH.

So i guess warriors/clerics couldnt get their class-specific armor for a while?

Jify

02-05-2010, 08:44 AM

I think just the PoF class specific armor was put in initially when LR was removed and then eventually came the rest of it with PoH.

So i guess warriors/clerics couldnt get their class-specific armor for a while?

I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me that Verant/Sony would add in full suits of armor for Monks, Wizards, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, Shadowknights, and Necros. And then at the same time, give every other class 1-2 drops off the Phobos.

Phobo's are dropping PoHate armor, that makes me think 'hrmm, PoH armor dropping, PoH should be open, no?" I'm really just after getting some more raid content for the server.

If we can't have new raid content, giving back some of the content we had a month ago would be great! lol. :)