Knight tanks and the future

[Cen]

So I have a dwarf paladin now and he's really fashionable and I love to be a healer and also love to tank and im a huge fan of dwatf fashionquest so it's really the obvious choice... but yes, I'm aware I'm playing what is widely considered the worst and weakest class in the game.. but I hear in the future knights get a small buff in the velious timeline... so I'm wondering will life always be miserable if I make the long trek to max level, or should I roll cleric now ? :)

[maskedmelon]

So I have a dwarf paladin now and he's really fashionable and I love to be a healer and also love to tank and im a huge fan of dwatf fashionquest so it's really the obvious choice... but yes, I'm aware I'm playing what is widely considered the worst and weakest class in the game.. but I hear in the future knights get a small buff in the velious timeline... so I'm wondering will life always be miserable if I make the long trek to max level, or should I roll cleric now ? :)

Paladins are super fantastic for group play. Only thing sucky about them is melee, which does get a bump at the end of velious indirectly w/2h mods that affect everyone. They also get defense bump at the same time, but cannot recall if there is a corresponding offense buff at same time. Solo will pretty much always suck, but is doable. Paladin a group class though, so I'd do that ^^

[Shodo]

Definitely don't re-roll if you're enjoying the class. Just understand that paladins are heavily specialized for single group or duo/trio content and don't have as big of a role to play in raids (they still have a role, just don't expect to main tank a bunch of raid bosses). Paladins also solo slower than many other classes, but with decent gear (about 10-12k is what I ended up with post 30, but definitely doable with less) you can still get a level every 4-6 hours solo til 45ish which isn't bad.

[Raev]

I think the Paladin class gets a bad rap because they can't tank the absolute toughest content, and the hive mind has somehow hypnotized themselves into thinking this means they can't tank at all.

Let's say you join a casual guild. Paladins can tank all of Hate. Paladins can tank everything in Sky except the Bee Queen. Paladins can tank all of the Ring War. Paladins can tank all of Kael except Derakor. Paladins can tank the Halls of Testing. Paladins can tank everything in Veeshan's Peak. Paladins can tank pretty much every Kunark boss except Venril Sathir. Now the really big Velious targets like Tormax, Yelinak, Dozekar, anything in NTOV? They will smoke you. But on the whole you can tank a huge amount of content and arguably do most of it better than a Warrior.

The key to tanking tough mobs as a Paladin is convincing your debuffers that no matter what they do, they will not die. Playing Enchanter in halls of testing with a Warrior tanking is a miserable experience. You either wait like 20s to tash, or you die every 5-10 dragons. As a Paladin, you should get a clicky to reset your cooldown and absolutely spam your aggro spells like Stun and Flash of Light. Once the Shamans and Enchanters in your guild learn that they can trust you, you can train them to move in and slow things in ~10 seconds. And a Paladin tanking a slowed mob will do way, way better than a Warrior with the unslowed version.

Also, Paladins are very good in groups. Don't think of yourself as a tank that heal. Think of yourself as a tank that can CC. Frog beating on the cleric? Root it. No monk? Get out that Charisma set and lull. Enchanter's pet skeleton breaks charm? Stun it. Monk pulled 5 mobs? Stun one, drag it away from the pack, root, repeat. Or use Group Heal to tank them all as the Enchanter gradually locks them down.

On the whole I think class balance is far improved in Velious. Druids, Shadowknights, Paladins, Rangers all got big improvements. Enchanters got toned down a bit with stun immune Dragons and Giants all over the place. Pure melee are probably still too strong, but on the whole it's much closer.

[phacemeltar]

I think the Paladin class gets a bad rap because they can't tank the absolute toughest content, and the hive mind has somehow hypnotized themselves into thinking this means they can't tank at all.

Let's say you join a casual guild. Paladins can tank all of Hate. Paladins can tank everything in Sky except the Bee Queen. Paladins can tank all of the Ring War. Paladins can tank all of Kael except Derakor. Paladins can tank the Halls of Testing. Paladins can tank everything in Veeshan's Peak. Paladins can tank pretty much every Kunark boss except Venril Sathir. Now the really big Velious targets like Tormax, Yelinak, Dozekar, anything in NTOV? They will smoke you. But on the whole you can tank a huge amount of content and arguably do most of it better than a Warrior.

The key to tanking tough mobs as a Paladin is convincing your debuffers that no matter what they do, they will not die. Playing Enchanter in halls of testing with a Warrior tanking is a miserable experience. You either wait like 20s to tash, or you die every 5-10 dragons. As a Paladin, you should get a clicky to reset your cooldown and absolutely spam your aggro spells like Stun and Flash of Light. Once the Shamans and Enchanters in your guild learn that they can trust you, you can train them to move in and slow things in ~10 seconds. And a Paladin tanking a slowed mob will do way, way better than a Warrior with the unslowed version.

Also, Paladins are very good in groups. Don't think of yourself as a tank that heal. Think of yourself as a tank that can CC. Frog beating on the cleric? Root it. No monk? Get out that Charisma set and lull. Enchanter's pet skeleton breaks charm? Stun it. Monk pulled 5 mobs? Stun one, drag it away from the pack, root, repeat. Or use Group Heal to tank them all as the Enchanter gradually locks them down.

On the whole I think class balance is far improved in Velious. Druids, Shadowknights, Paladins, Rangers all got big improvements. Enchanters got toned down a bit with stun immune Dragons and Giants all over the place. Pure melee are probably still too strong, but on the whole it's much closer.

This is a great post

[khanable]

doesn't a mob proc regardless of hit/miss?

even if evasion affects it, paladins and any other character with high HP should have no problem tanking VS

iirc mobs need to deal damage to do innate procs

hence using rune on vs

[Raev]

I don't consider Paladins a critical power class either. I'm simply saying that if Paladin is your thing, you can join a casual guild and tank quite a bit of content. Throw in the token buffs and some clutch heals and LOH and you can be quite effective.

Sure, a defensive warrior blows away every other class in terms of pure tanking. But if you have enough clerics to keep a paladin up and you don't feel like blowing mallet charges on every HOT dragon, why have your dps sitting around with their dicks in their hands for 20s while a warrior builds up threat?

[Vandil]

If you are looking to play a heavy raiding endgame, then roll a class suitable/desirable for endgame raiding, get grinding, and enjoy the game once you're there.

If you are looking to enjoy your character's leveling life and may or may not dabble in the raiding endgame, roll the race/class you like and enjoy the game.

[Sage Truthbearer]

To sum up:

• Paladins are the best group tanks in the game.

• As Raev pointed out, a Paladin can tank almost any Classic + Kunark raid encounter just fine besides a few.

• Paladins don't have a significant role in the tougher Velious-level raids because disciplines which are exclusive to Warriors become much more important for those fights.

• If you absolutely insist on being your guild's main tank for the hardest Velious bosses in the game, then don't play a Paladin.

[Farzo]

Paladins can tank:

~ all of Kunark ( including VS, I've done it dunno where that theory comes from they can't tank it -- considering VS is a runes, dps + tank agro fight you'd prefer a hybrid over a warrior )

~all of classic (not sure on new CT)

~hot named/mobs ( except flurries )

---

I know all this because I did it with my paladin
it was getting close to 1450ac and still had a lot of room to grow before I gave it away

I can see in the future a 1550-1600ac super hybrid tanking mobs like derakor the vindicator been quite possible.

EQ tanks are balanced very well; you don't want a hybrid been able to compete with warriors outside of specific specialised fights where they are better suited for the job ( constant snap agro ).

I think mobs like Wuushi, Gozzrem, Lendiniara the Keeper, Telkorenar and Derakor will be the peak of hybrid tanks if they get a chance to prove it in the hybrid hating world that is P99 -- but at that point it's why bother? a semi geared warrior tank with defensive and a mallet will do the job.

[Raev]

Paladins are the best group tanks in the game.
I think this is debatable. Paladins are great for pickup groups with bad players, but if you actually have a competent Monk/Enchanter then a lot of the value goes down. Meanwhile, Warriors provide more dps, which means more XP, and discs if you are going for something tough. For example, I'd rather do Chardok with a Warrior tanking than a Paladin.

including VS, I've done it dunno where that theory comes from they can't tank it -- considering VS is a runes, dps + tank agro fight you'd prefer a hybrid over a warrior
I mean, it's obviously possible if you have a lot of enchanters. Since virtually no one wants to play a raiding enchanter, it's much better to have a Warrior with evasive who will take 50% as much damage and thus require 50% as many runes to blow some prayers or puppet strings.

I think mobs like Wuushi, Gozzrem, Lendiniara the Keeper, Telkorenar and Derakor will be the peak of hybrid tanks
Paladins can theoretically tank any target that can't one-round them, given sufficient clerics . In practice this probably means anything that doesn't flurry. I have complete confidence the Awakened or Aftermath CH chains could keep a Paladin up vs, say, Lord Feshlak. It might even keep them awake. But, as you say, there isn't much point. I would be curious to see Opmeter or Pint try to do some NTOV dragons though.

[Farzo]

I hope a guild does let a hybrid tank said mobs. Would be good 2 give em a pat on the back.

Paladins didnt start getting decent till luclin/pop. (Tanking and in general)

AAs were huge, also the undead bane spells they started to get in addition to stun spells that would stun for 5-6-7 seconds.

I remember on live soloing CoM on my paladin because the bane buff, 25% self haste, and using a jeldorin. Great fun, miss those days.

[Farzo]

Valor of Marr Increase Attack Speed by 25%

Quellious' Word of Tranquility Stun(10.00 sec/61), Decrease Hitpoints by 108

Instrument of Nife Add Proc: Condemnation of Nife
1: Decrease Hitpoints by 165 (L1) to 406 (L41)

*moans* *touches his naughty area*

[Brut]

Em tanked a full Lord Koi once.
Slowable dragons easy times.

[Noselacri]

Paladins don't get really good until PoP when they have several fast, cheap stuns on short cooldowns. Cease and Desist fix a problem that the class has until then: its aggro largely depends on a level 30 and a level 50-something stun spells which cost a bit too much mana to sustain frequent use if the group is chain-pulling, and have kind of long recast timers.

[Aesop]

Em tanked a full Lord Koi once.
Slowable dragons easy times.



What's that sig all about

[Sage Truthbearer]

I think this is debatable. Paladins are great for pickup groups with bad players, but if you actually have a competent Monk/Enchanter then a lot of the value goes down.

Well, you have to remember that pickup groups doing group content are how the vast majority of people on live and P99 have experienced the game. So, other than a few niche situations you really have to stretch to make it debatable for the bulk of people playing EQ. Also, good groupmates still benefit quite a lot from the increased efficiency a Paladin brings to the table.

[icedwards]

What's that sig all about

http://wiki.project1999.com/Essence_Lens_Quest