Common Man's ToV Raid Scene

[Fifield]

I can't post in Raid discussion so posting here.

Its obvious in the past 6 months the GM's don't give a shit about the raid scene on P99 anymore. The current raid scene in ToV is absolutely stupid and the leaders of FA and Awakened need to just get along for once and come up with some ground rules that both parties could agree on. Cant be that hard. We all want to have fun and compete and i am sure there is a way to do that without killing your trackers each week.

My proposal:

--2 mages per wing. This makes you have to pick and prioritize your mobs

--1 mage per mob. Regardless of which wing, its the same shit as 2 mages per mob it just lowers the ammount of trackers needed. You might argue that its nice to have 2 mages so one can go piss. And I would argue just go fucking piss. If for some reason he spawns while you went pee, who cares, the same exact dragon is gonna be there next week.

--no gating mages to coth - obviously

I feel like doing this would allow for some targets to be raced for, some to be coth'd, and lower the amount of trackers needed compared to the Magewars2016 we have going now, and this is coming from someone who enjoys tracking for their guild.

Would love to hear some more ideas. The raid scene is what you want it to be, if you want it to be 20 man track teams it will be, if you want a better raid scene, you can make it happen.

[newagemystic]

why do people keep trying to "fix" something that clearly doesn't want their input

[Phantasm]

FTE is king.

FTE means you get an attempt at the dragon. Dropping FTE forfeits your attempt for one hour or one attempt from every opposing guild. Don't want to lose your attempt? Don't drop FTE.

Would *hopefully* increase the chances of guilds clearing trash toward raid targets, and avoid the shenanigans of throwing 15 pullers at a mob to get it through a very large, hostile zone

[Udabut]

Current Raid scene in TOV is "Classic". I can remember pulling every named dragon to the Entrance or Exit. What's the problem?

[manguard]

Spitting venom on the GMs who volunteer their free time is not a good way to get them on your side, or even listen to you.

As far as non-classic solutions to the already non-classic FTE message: how about losing/forfeiting FTE every time any guildie who was COTH'ed in the past 10minutes engages their guild's FTE target? Or what about pulling away a mob/guard that spawns within 250 locs of a named(and intended to be part of the encoutner) is pulled away FTE gets reset?

In my opinion, it seems like the non-classic solution should be in the spirit of the message, so that's what informs my ideas.

[Elmarnieh]

Just rotated it weekly. No mages, no tracking, no bs wasting time to play a game.

[-Catherin-]

Stuff

The RnF-Chest Pounding (no pun intended) culture of this server makes what you want a near impossibility. You are going to have to start there if you want to see any real lasting change. And good luck with that.

also inb4rnf

[fan D]

pvp server

feel like im on crazy pills talkin to u ppl

[Whirled]

Just rotated it weekly. No mages, no tracking, no bs wasting time to play a game.

This guy gets it^ Think of the time better spent dong much more productive things. Some people just give up because it's like a broken record of the worst song ever & only a select few are enjoying the torture to others ears.

[Elmarnieh]

This guy gets it^ Think of the time better spent dong much more productive things. Some people just give up because it's like a broken record of the worst song ever & only a select few are enjoying the torture to others ears.

Think how much gardening and re-wiring of my house's outlets I could get done.

And I miss the old 'crawling through' as on live as well, a rotation would allow us to actually clear in one raid (longish) raid night or even split into two nights if we rotate weekly.

[fan D]

newsflash

the raid scene on blue is a piece of shit and has been since kunark, we are all sick for participating in it. nothings ever going to change because one of us is going to sit at Silverwings spawn point for 16hours watching for it to pop like its the second coming of christ

[Gimp]

Just rotated it weekly. No mages, no tracking, no bs wasting time to play a game.

+1

[Whirled]

Think how much gardening and re-wiring of my house's outlets I could get done.

And I miss the old 'crawling through' as on live as well, a rotation would allow us to actually clear in one raid (longish) raid night or even split into two nights if we rotate weekly.

My friend, you speak too much logic for some, but I get what you're saying.
Sadly, changing the status-quo & rustling some feathers would be like trying to remove an entrenched life time politician with tenure. Too much red tape.

[solutionx]

newsflash

the raid scene on blue is a piece of shit and has been since kunark, we are all sick for participating in it. nothings ever going to change because one of us is going to sit at Silverwings spawn point for 16hours watching for it to pop like its the second coming of christ

hello i am a red player who posts on nothing but blue topics and has nothing to contribute to everquest or the planet


- fab n

[fan D]

? login to vp 2 c my lvl 60 rogue on blue

or c u @ thurgadin to face my 60 mage

got more 60s on blue than you have fingers on your hands kid

[Fifield]

now now ladies no fighting =D

[Gimp]

Don't do drugs kids, or you'll end up like this ^

[Daldaen]

Mages are an absolutely terrible way to determine FTE. FTE is also an absolutely terrible way to handle a zone that is intended to be crawled and have guards for every mob semi linked to them.

It requires your tracker be 100% attentive for the entire window. Any faltering at all, even for 1 second and you lose the mob. You fizzle, you lose the mob. You swap out trackers, you lose the mob. It's dumb dumb dumb.

The problem I have with some player made agreement is we've been burned on that before. An agreement was made after some QQ about FTEing a second mob while another was engaged. Hokushin was pointed to 2013 era VP rules, and the second mob was dropped. Three weeks later, when Rampage no longer existed, we expected this to be the norm. Naturally when a mob was at 13% we were getting ready to FTE a mob and a guild already engaged in a mob FTEs it, then claims that "agreement" was made with Hokushin only and is now null and void.

These sorts of raid agreements being thrown out After no consultation led to the way things are. Without the server fully enforcing the rule I have minimal faith in their benefit to all guilds involved if on a whim the guilds in an agreement can just throw them to the wind.

Let me be clear. The failure to adhere to these rules is no one guild or individual's fault. It's been a server problem since I started. There are almost no penalties in place for canceling out prior agreements on a whim. Which is why making them a server rule is so crucial.

What I would prefer personally, beyond full repops, removal of binds or some sort of server rotation (all of which don't appear to have any shot in hell at occuring) is this:

1 ranger tracker at Vulak pillar, face track whatever WToV or Dozekar's you want to.
All FTEers must be behind the entrance door on spawn to be eligible to FTE. Also for Kael you need to be at WL on the dirt area before it turns to Ice because Kael CotHQuest is equally retarded.
SoW or Spirit of Scale allowed, you figure out if the inability to cast is worth extra runspeed.
Any class is allowed to FTE. Run up Hide/Sneak rogue, or monks, or DA bomb with a Necro, or hell just send Rangers for the lols.
Any number of runners allowed.
Anything that happens beyond the wing doorways until FTE goes out is fair game. You want to fire off an AE drake on some hide sneak rogues, go for it. You want to break FD on a few monks by popping AEs, have fun. You wanna leave a rogue hanging way behind waiting for the dust to settle to dance over everyone's corpses and FTE, enjoy yourself. You want to YOLO your way on a defensive warrior back to Cekenar have fun.

But last I heard the concern about foot races was maybe people would set off north mob AEs on purpose to break hides and sneaks. Meh so what, so long as it's happening before FTE goes out, have fun.

Once that turns into a cluster of 15 monks at the zoneline at all times maybe people will come back to the drawing boards and consider perhaps devoting 6+ people to tracking each mob isn't worth it when the split on mobs is 50/50 anyways and rotations may be the way to go after all.

[solutionx]

i have ten fingers on my hand daddy

anyways if you were being serious, i remember guilds just kinda, you know - like - sort of, getting along? i don't remembering so much GM intervention, and unofficial server forums and guild leader connections was a foundation for coordination between high or low tier raiding guilds, so everyone got a chance without the damn pressure. just a chance on the agreed schedule.

then again i might have been on a lucky server, because i've already heard how shit some servers on live were when it came to simply sharing.

[-Catherin-]

Once that turns into a cluster of 15 monks at the zoneline at all times maybe people will come back to the drawing boards and consider perhaps devoting 6+ people to tracking each mob isn't worth it when the split on mobs is 50/50 anyways and rotations may be the way to go after all.

Until every guild on the server wants to get on those rotations ;)

I am a fan of rotations as well but also know, and have seen how those get taken advantage of and go to pot too.

#bringbackblackouthours

[Daldaen]

Until every guild on the server wants to get on those rotations ;)

I am a fan of rotations as well but also know, and have seen how those get taken advantage of and go to pot too.

#bringbackblackouthours

Basically yes.

The way things are guilds mob counts wouldn't shift much if we just did a 50/50 split.

But once CSG and BDA ask to be on the rotation and that drops to 25%, there will be salt.

Either the same thing from Class R will happen "You must slay Sontalak for your ToV week" and "you must slay AoW for your Kael week", ridiculous milestones will be put up to farm much easier mobs in an attempt to keep people out. Or people will say F this we are willing to put in the time, back to the big gay pile of CotHQuest.

The reason I stress GM intervention is, let's say we make an agreement like Fifield proposes, then one guild breaks it. What happens? There's no server rule that can punish them, therefore there is no deterrent to breaking the agreements. People can get pretty crazy over a single mobs pixels and have broken agreements for less.

I've tried to PM Sirken to set up a chat between guilds with him present, he seems to like hanging out on his stream, hell I'll go on your stream if you want to talk about this with other guild leaderships and make something change. But he hasn't responded. In fairness I'm sure there's better ways of getting ahold of him than PM.

[Erati]

hell I'll go on your stream if you want to talk about this with other guild leaderships and make something change. But he hasn't responded. In fairness I'm sure there's better ways of getting ahold of him than PM.

WTB Dald on Sirken stream next week

[Fifield]

good god all they would talk about is chipolte

[Erati]

good god all they would talk about is chipolte

not a bad choice for dinner tonight.....

[Spyder73]

I in no way have any inside knowledge or speak for Asgard, but taking a shot in the dark here...I doubt Asgard/Forsaken would ever make any kind of deals with the turn coat cuck lords in Taken. Its a Braveheart situation where Longshanks is trying to make a deal with William Wallace...not going to happen. You p!ssed in the koolaid and now complain that you're thirsty. Cowboy up and take a sip, it will help wash down the taste of the sh!t sandwich you are currently eating.

Taken and BDA are of the same ilk and universally frowned upon in many circles of the raiding community, so a "no peace" mentality will probably prevail for the foreseeable future in my humble opinion.

[Daldaen]

good god all they would talk about is chipolte

I will not entirely rule this out.

Though I could rant about not classic things for an hour also.

[Elmarnieh]

Mmm post yoga chipotle tonight...

[Elmarnieh]

I in no way have any inside knowledge or speak for Asgard, but taking a shot in the dark here...I doubt Asgard/Forsaken would ever make any kind of deals with the turn coat cuck lords in Taken. Its a Braveheart situation where Longshanks is trying to make a deal with William Wallace...not going to happen. You p!ssed in the koolaid and now complain that you're thirsty. Cowboy up and take a sip, it will help wash down the taste of the sh!t sandwich you are currently eating.

Taken and BDA are of the same ilk and universally frowned upon in many circles of the raiding community, so a "no peace" mentality will probably prevail for the foreseeable future in my humble opinion.

Right a guild that never had a raiding ban on them is someone you can't trust.

The human psyche creates such interesting distortions of reality.

[Spyder73]

Right a guild that never had a raiding ban on them is someone you can't trust.

The human psyche creates such interesting distortions of reality.

Quick history lesson from my experiences since 2014...

It's not so much about trust as it is "Do unto other as you want done unto you". I can only speak from personal experience, but BDA and Taken were both instrumental (IE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE) for the dismantling of the class rotation system because they had zerg numbers and were getting annoyed by guilds like Asgard, Omni, and Azure Guard who wanted to kill dragons under the CASUAL class rotation. Taken and BDA both refused to move up and compete with IB and TMO. Asgard decides enough of this sh!t and joins class C because there's only like 2 guilds actually competing…We start getting kills!

So Asgard decides we are going to step it up and compete at the highest level possible in Velious to start off – nToV...not going to lie, times were tough at first, we were too small and the zergs were too big. So we made a few alliances so that we could live normal lives and also get loot. Taken joins us only to desert the alliance and join the competition in hopes of crushing us and monopolizing ToV 100%. Funny thing happens though, this only galvanized the Asgard alliance and we started kicking the sh!t out Taken and Rampage on a weekly basis. So now its clear that Taken made ANOTHER bad move, and now that Rampage is gone talks of a rotation are starting again.

Seems to be a situation of a guy picking a fight, getting his sh!t pushed in, and then calling for a truce and saying the other guy is a bully.

Excuse me when I say “blow it out your ass” to any Taken member who thinks they are not the problem with the current raid scene.

[Loke]

"no peace" mentality

"No peace with the shadow." -Shaere <Taken>

[Rusl]

"No truce with the shadow." -Shaere <Taken>

[Spyder73]

And again - I am just a pleb to raiding - I am the definition of "warm body" so take what I say with a grain of salt

[Elmarnieh]

Quick history lesson from my experiences since 2014...

It's not so much about trust as it is "Do unto other as you want done unto you". I can only speak from personal experience, but BDA and Taken were both instrumental (IE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE) for the dismantling of the class rotation system because they had zerg numbers and were getting annoyed by guilds like Asgard, Omni, and Azure Guard who wanted to kill dragons under the CASUAL class rotation. Taken and BDA both refused to move up and compete with IB and TMO. Asgard decides enough of this sh!t and joins class C because there's only like 2 guilds actually competing…We start getting kills!

So Asgard decides we are going to step it up and compete at the highest level possible in Velious to start off – nToV...not going to lie, times were tough at first, we were too small and the zergs were too big. So we made a few alliances so that we could live normal lives and also get loot. Taken joins us only to desert the alliance and join the competition in hopes of crushing us and monopolizing ToV 100%. Funny thing happens though, this only galvanized the Asgard alliance and we started kicking the sh!t out Taken and Rampage on a weekly basis. So now its clear that Taken made ANOTHER bad move, and now that Rampage is gone talks of a rotation are starting again.

Seems to be a situation of a guy picking a fight, getting his sh!t pushed in, and then calling for a truce and saying the other guy is a bully.

Excuse me when I say “blow it out your ass” to any Taken member who thinks they are not the problem with the current raid scene.

So Taken had broken no agreement but because you wanted a greater share of the loot you wanted another guild to move into an area whose only advantage was VP access while they lacked the needed resources to effectively compete there?

Interesting. You wanted the same thing they wanted but they are the ones you blame while not knowing a thing about their situation.

Alliances are temporary things, everyone should understand that. Your guild joined an alliance to better itself and it's members, so did other guilds. If a better offer comes along your guild will take it just as all other guilds will.

You personally don't feel Taken made decisions that affected you positively. The job of a guild is to take care of it's members not non-members. You're personal bias is coloring your opinion as I originally stated.

[Loke]

Can't believe I got that wrong. Thanks 4 shaere.

[MavstabYoudead]

Quick history lesson from my experiences since 2014...

It's not so much about trust as it is "Do unto other as you want done unto you". I can only speak from personal experience, but BDA and Taken were both instrumental (IE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE) for the dismantling of the class rotation system because they had zerg numbers and were getting annoyed by guilds like Asgard, Omni, and Azure Guard who wanted to kill dragons under the CASUAL class rotation. Taken and BDA both refused to move up and compete with IB and TMO. Asgard decides enough of this sh!t and joins class C because there's only like 2 guilds actually competing…We start getting kills!

So Asgard decides we are going to step it up and compete at the highest level possible in Velious to start off – nToV...not going to lie, times were tough at first, we were too small and the zergs were too big. So we made a few alliances so that we could live normal lives and also get loot. Taken joins us only to desert the alliance and join the competition in hopes of crushing us and monopolizing ToV 100%. Funny thing happens though, this only galvanized the Asgard alliance and we started kicking the sh!t out Taken and Rampage on a weekly basis. So now its clear that Taken made ANOTHER bad move, and now that Rampage is gone talks of a rotation are starting again.

Seems to be a situation of a guy picking a fight, getting his sh!t pushed in, and then calling for a truce and saying the other guy is a bully.

Excuse me when I say “blow it out your ass” to any Taken member who thinks they are not the problem with the current raid scene.

Nice fairy tale. This request/thread also started by a member of your alliance...

As for taken leaving the alliance we were never a part of the alliance in TOV with FA. How did we leave an alliance we were never a part of? Appears taken made the best move we are now apart of the best single raiding guild on the server, without question.

Stick to your trolling in RnF.

[Daldaen]

And again - I am just a pleb to raiding - I am the definition of "warm body" so take what I say with a grain of salt

Can you make this your signature?

Skimming through RNF would make more sense if only I were reminded of this every post.

To suggest Taken was/is the sole reason the raid scene is shit is laughable at best. Every guild who competes plays a part in making it the way it is. Whether it's raising the number of trackers, gating to spawns, Rezzing corpses on spawns, CotHing to spawns, FTEing with trackers, breaking agreements, or General petitionquesting. It's all retarded and all a waste of time and energy.

It was shit in ToV far before Taken ever got an FTE in the zone. It was all shit before the class system and was all shit during Class R through its various phases.

[Elmarnieh]

Rampage is gone because Taken merged with Rampage, that is how well the guilds and their membership got along. It was obviously a better relationship than the previous alliance from both of their points of view. They new guild has had very successful raiding results since then which seems to confirm this.

[Thordoff]

Two ways to make the ToV raid scene slightly more classic and more fun

-Move all ToV binds to the Plane of Mischief zone in pad. All evidence points to ToV binding being un-classic and by moving the binds no one will have wasted a Locket charge as PoM binds are still desirable. This will eliminate TL box pulling!

-Eliminate the CoTH magician safe spots that are very near to dragon spawn points. Add invisible walls, add z-axis boundaries (I think this was done in VP at some point), change LoS checking, do whatever! If guilds were forced to CoTH to just a couple of places in north wing (maybe Aary hall and PoM cubby) then it would be less CoTHquest and more foot races.

[-Catherin-]

Taken always said they would move to the bleeding edge when we were ready to do so. We were (and are still) a guild that caters to the casual as well as the hardcore so that isn't something that just happens immediately. It takes work.

Also it is important to add that when we were actually ready for it, the FAT alliance wouldn't allow us to participate in NTOV with them. And we still had to shoulder the majority of your tracking. So fuck you :)

You can't blame us for going with Rampage who actually offered us something fair. We worked so well together which resulted in the <Awakened> guild you now see.

Whats funny is you guys always shit on us for having to share loot. Looks like you are now what you shit on and we are a single top guild.

FA has nobody else to blame but themselves for what happened. QQ more about it.

[xexbis0]

Fifey. You could always come home and leave behind the toxic leadership you've chosen to follow. That would solve all of your issues. BTW, your guild gating mages to bind spots started the influx of mages into ToV along with Detoxx's insistence that the old agreements with Rampage no longer exist anymore. You reap what you sow, and Detoxx decided one random dragon was worth mucking up the raid scene even more than it already is.

See ya'll on the battlefield and let's just see the original post for what it is, a fluff piece aimed at making it seem like Forsaken is "actively trying" to fix the raid rules, which is pretty laughable.

BTW, merge already please. I can't wait for my daily dose of "As the Merge Turns" watching those 2 guilds try to get along.

NB4 RNF

[Ella`Ella]

I remember the good ole days when I didn't like something, I just snapped my fingers and had the GMs create a rule for me.

[-Catherin-]

Fifey. You could always come home and leave behind the toxic leadership you've chosen to follow. That would solve all of your issues.

^^

Still love you Fifield. come home ;)

[Spyder73]

Kekekeke

Lots of funny posts in here - particularly the Taken sh!tlord who are trying to stand on the moral high ground.

Many laughs will be had when we slay Vulak this weekend to the sounds of your tears

[Spyder73]

we are now apart of the best single raiding guild on the server, without question.

<Asgard> is and will always be the best guild on the server regardless of whether they raid or not.

<Awakend> is just the next latest incarnation in a long list of crap guild mergers that essentially involve the same group of neck-beards. Call it FE, IB, A-Team, Rampage, TMO, its all the same, and it ends the same every time as well.

[Daldaen]

Kekekeke

Lots of funny posts in here - particularly the Taken sh!tlord who are trying to stand on the moral high ground.

Many laughs will be had when we slay Vulak this weekend to the sounds of your tears

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189856

Q22: Are we allowed to use Rezz or Rezz boz tactics to acquire FTE?
A: In short, no. do not park corpses at raid mobs with the intent of rezzing them in for FTE

Again, any guild who competes at the top end on this server attempting to show that their hands are clean from making the server the way it is now, is a liar.

Everyone has played a part, but continue to keep singling out two guilds.

[Danth]

I think this thread sufficiently demonstrates for the original poster why player-made agreements aren't going to work.


Danth

[Whirled]

I think this thread sufficiently demonstrates for the original poster why player-made agreements aren't going to work.


Danth

/agree, hence why "the common man" has walked away to other things. Certain content will be held onto like great grandmother clutching her pearls.

[Ella`Ella]

I think this thread sufficiently demonstrates for the original poster why player-made agreements aren't going to work.


Danth

Weird, Hoku and I made several player-made agreements that lasted nearly a year. Sounds more like a leadership issue.

[-Catherin-]

Sounds more like a leadership issue.

http://i.imgur.com/6FUenxz.jpg

[Raev]

"You must slay Sontalak for your ToV week"

100% down for this. Whoever kills Sontalak gets TOV for the weekend.

Anyway, all I see is Fifield slowly realizing FA's 'we ran Rampage off the server because we are this amazing competitive force' narrative is pure spin. You guys had no problem trying to burn out Rampage with this mage idiocy, expecting that history would repeat and you guys would get a year of uncontested TOV the way TMO got a year of uncontested VP after Kunark. Instead you got two weeks: awakened is already the number one guild on the server, scoring over 50% in TOV and killing Tunare/AOW from 100%.

I don't see us making any player agreements, either. FA has a long history of being very . . . creative . . . with player agreements, e.g. Nalken and shadowstep. I personally would vote for a rotation in TOV, but on our side I kind of have to wonder if your alliance will just fall apart in another month or two of this.

What you should be doing is trying to get everyone from the four major guilds together to agree on a repop system. Something like 1/3 of all raid mobs, spread equally across all zones simultaneously respawn 5x per weeek at a random time weighted towards North America > Europe > Asia with some sort of anti parkout system where everyone has to start from a 'rally zone' and no Kael/TOV binds sounds super fun.

[Nibblewitz]

18 hours

a day

on everquest

[Ella`Ella]

http://i.imgur.com/6FUenxz.jpg

This is definitely my favorite compilation of 2015.

With Keg and Hoku no longer leading the opposition to Forsaken; it's a chance to start anew, no?

[-Catherin-]

This is definitely my favorite compilation of 2015.


It was part of what won me those elder beads. my favorite too ;)

[arsenalpow]

This is definitely my favorite compilation of 2015.

With Keg and Hoku no longer leading the opposition to Forsaken; it's a chance to start anew, no?

I dunno, we got a strong dose of Detoxx berging out at Draco the other day. Doesn't seem like he's changing for the better.

[-Catherin-]

I dunno, we got a strong dose of Detoxx berging out at Draco the other day. Doesn't seem like he's changing for the better.

Yours would be 2016.

Pics!

[khanable]

Mage races are the AIDS of Norrath

[arsenalpow]

Yours would be 2016.

Pics!

Nah, but I'll just say my favorite part of our fraps is when Detoxx starts scrambling for ways to trick you into conceding "you trained us too!!" because two guilds rushing into full pop fear to chase a dragon and you finding some mobs mean we trained you. JenniferLawrenceYaOk.jpeg

[Loke]

Nah, but I'll just say my favorite part of our fraps is when Detoxx starts scrambling for ways to trick you into conceding "you trained us too!!" because two guilds rushing into full pop fear to chase a dragon and you finding some mobs mean we trained you. JenniferLawrenceYaOk.jpeg

Sounds a lot like the 2012 (or 2013?) case of BDA vs. Dinacarl. I seem to remember the defense, represented by the most honorable Unbrella J.D., making a similar argument.

[arsenalpow]

Sounds a lot like the 2012 (or 2013?) case of BDA vs. Dinacarl. I seem to remember the defense, represented by the most honorable Unbrella J.D., making a similar argument.

As ruled by the corrupt Derubael, fucking kangaroo court.

[surron]

what the hell did i just read, this is sad, all of you should be ashamed of yourselves and take a look in the mirror, is this really how you want to live your life?

[Pheer]

This is definitely my favorite compilation of 2015.

if detoxx keeps this up ill be able to make a 2nd one pretty quick

I dunno, we got a strong dose of Detoxx berging out at Draco the other day. Doesn't seem like he's changing for the better.

http://i.imgur.com/mNaZML8.png

[Ella`Ella]

As ruled by the corrupt Derubael, fucking kangaroo court.

"A good lawyer knows the law. A great lawyer knows the judge."

[Loke]

A corrupt GM on p99? Thats unpossible! Pillars of integrity, the whole lot of em!

[Kagey]

Aiming for your guild to be top tier and getting the most FTE's is the game.

Sorry you are getting burnt out FA with coth, but maybe if you didnt have such a shitty forum attitude, gloating, and rnf madness caused by few members which in turn effects your whole guild. You would maybe have more apps to cover spawns and switch out FTE'ers.

of course you proposed a rule change right now.. I called this last weekend when you saw what we are capable of when we finally got settled in.

[Fifield]

You guys are all crazy

I just wanted to share my thoughts and look for some ideas.

[Elmarnieh]

I don't see how desiring not having a coh race is crazy. A rotation would be a lot less stress for each guild.

[Juevento]

There are what close to 20 dragons in ToV? I dunno why everyone's pixel list can't be satiated by a decent split.

Then everyone wins and everyone gets to kill the dragons and have fun. That's why playing the game is all about, right?

[arsenalpow]

I don't see how desiring not having a coh race is crazy. A rotation would be a lot less stress for each guild.

No because rotations are for pussies. If you're not raiding ToV every weekend you shouldn't even play on p99.

[Elmarnieh]

No because rotations are for pussies. If you're not raiding ToV every weekend you shouldn't even play on p99.

Good thing I am then I suppose.

[Loke]

shitty forum attitude, gloating...

He posts in a thread in which numerous of his guildies have already proclaimed themselves the best guild on the server after a couple moderately successful weeks. Lets be real, every guild has some forum questers and only idiots take them seriously.

[Whirled]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhexf94LjTw

[RedXIII]

I dont see anything change while Detoxx still leads a guild. He says one thing, agrees to it and then change his mind because he will lose a FTE/Dragon. Agreements been broken on the fly to suit his needs.

Since week ONE of velious, both top guild knew per Rogean words that we were not supposed to "bug pull" Zlandicar to entrance/first floor. Last weekend Zlandicar, <Awakened> monilized first and had a kill force ready at Zland lair before <FA>. What did they do?! They bug pull it warping thro walls and brought it to entrance to kill it there. Even thou my leaders try talk him out of it, he still proceed and killed the dragon... one week later he "concedes" next Zlandicar because he knows he did crap and to prevent a bigger suspension.

In the IB/TMO days, we had a good streak of PD FTEs until Nalken started to cheat and use shadowstep to FTE, took us a couple weeks to figure out that he was cheating and was really sad to see that their leadership allowed him to keep going with this.

While these type of people lead a guild, no agreements will last.

Really proud of been in a guild with correct leadership, we dont allow our members to cheat, and when something we do goes wrong we step back instead of having this "we will just concede the next one incase they show us good fraps evidences".

Thanks IB leadership (Getsome, Hokushin, Kegluas) for teaching me how to be fair and correct in this mud pool of p99 players.

[Daldaen]

There are what close to 20 dragons in ToV? I dunno why everyone's pixel list can't be satiated by a decent split.

Then everyone wins and everyone gets to kill the dragons and have fun. That's why playing the game is all about, right?

The problem with a rotation will inevitably fall to pixel lust and worthiness deeming.

I think you could get a decent number of FA/Awakened people To consider a rotation 10/10 each week if it meant no tracking and no 4AM Batphones.

But once BDA joins, and CSG, and Asgard wants to split off, and Anonymous wants to try WToV, and Divinity is ready to trash faction again...

That's the point where people stop getting interested when it becomes 2-3 Dragons a week per guild and some guilds are wiping continually to half of them, leaving them up for days.

I joked about the Sontalak entry point. Something like Klandicar would be more reasonable though.

[Morlaeth]

"No peace with the shadow." -Shaere <Taken>

thx4shaere

[Calrizien]

This thread is getting too rnf'ish. Lets salvage it and sift out the real substantive conversation that fifield, dald, and some others are trying to proceed with.

[Man0warr]

No agreement/rotation will ever be possible as long as Detoxx (and his lackey Pint) is in charge of one of the guilds.

I guarantee the leadership of the other major guilds would be happy to work something out. Maybe if Anichek/Daldaen/Cloki or whoever could get together and bring it to Sirken/Rogean some traction would be made.

[Ella`Ella]

In the IB/TMO days, we had a good streak of PD FTEs until Nalken started to cheat and use shadowstep to FTE, took us a couple weeks to figure out that he was cheating and was really sad to see that their leadership allowed him to keep going with this.

This wasn't cheating - there was no player-agreement or rule prohibiting this. The rule was no movement speed greater than SoW, however IB was also clicking off lev down ramps to move faster during this same period of time. I would put on the same level as a very short-distance shadow-step and so did the GMs.


Thanks IB leadership (Getsome, Hokushin, Kegluas) for teaching me how to be fair and correct in this mud pool of p99 players.

Getsome had his guild taken away from him because of poor leadership, lol. GMs literally no longer allowed him to participate in raid discussions and gave leadership control to Hokushin. I wouldn't tout him as any beacon of integrity on this server.

[Morlaeth]

He posts in a thread in which numerous of his guildies have already proclaimed themselves the best guild on the server after a couple moderately successful weeks. Lets be real, every guild has some forum questers and only idiots take them seriously.

SAYS THE GUY WHO GOES TO BED AT 8PM!


<3

[Pheer]

This thread is getting too rnf'ish. Lets salvage it and sift out the real substantive conversation that fifield, dald, and some others are trying to proceed with.

When I was on sirken stream with hoku and I said that CoTH races were cancerous to the raid scene all the FA forum trolls came out of the woodwork saying I just wanted to get rid of coth races because we lost x mob etc. etc.

Perhaps fifield should start with trying to change his own guild's attitude towards the situation before trying to get other guilds on board.

[Elmarnieh]

Exploiting bugged pathing is cheating. It has always been so, it will always be so.

[Juevento]

The problem with a rotation will inevitably fall to pixel lust and worthiness deeming.

I think you could get a decent number of FA/Awakened people To consider a rotation 10/10 each week if it meant no tracking and no 4AM Batphones.

But once BDA joins, and CSG, and Asgard wants to split off, and Anonymous wants to try WToV, and Divinity is ready to trash faction again...

That's the point where people stop getting interested when it becomes 2-3 Dragons a week per guild and some guilds are wiping continually to half of them, leaving them up for days.

I joked about the Sontalak entry point. Something like Klandicar would be more reasonable though.

Obviously, you'd put limits on the amount of time the dragon is allowed to live. If you can't kill the dragon when it spawns because of a crappy spawn time, no big deal. A new set of mobs will spawn next week.

I feel as if you can have an agreement wherein guilds that fight as alliances always fight as alliances and so forth. Just takes some give and take by the leadership of the various guilds involved in such an arrangement.

[Elmarnieh]

The only option I can see is for one guild to so absolutely dominate TOV that it forces other guilds to come to the table and if any guild breaks it it means domination again. That one guild gets less loot but a lot less boring tracking and FTE and the other guilds get loot.

Short of GM enforcement of the rules this is the only path forward because it incentivizes each member in the agreement to act honorably in order to get what they desire.

[Pint]

So much bad information in this thread. Most of you need to stop regurgitating fabricated opinions you exchange with each other in late night vent convos. Asgard would sign off on fifield's proposal, 2 mages to cover a wing of 15 targets is reasonable. Awakened's stance of 2 mages per target in a wing of 15 dragons is not reasonable. FA has told awakened for weeks that we would sit down with them and map out new rules, awakened hasn't accepted the invitation and instead started a magician arms race. It doesn't matter who you are or where your information comes from, the above statements are first hand from the top facts and everything else is just people running their mouths. Invitation to work out new rules is still available whenever awakened wants to come to the table.

[Ella`Ella]

But once BDA joins, and CSG, and Asgard wants to split off, and Anonymous wants to try WToV, and Divinity is ready to trash faction again...



So, the real enemies here are BDA and CSG. Awakened and ForsakenGard just need to come together to block the casual filth, and balance will be restored.

[Elmarnieh]

So, the real enemies here are BDA and CSG. Awakened and ForsakenGard just need to come together to block the casual filth, and balance will be restored.

No, hes simply pointing out how the more people in the rotation the less pixels each guild would receive in the same time period. Eventually this will drop below the rate that is acceptable to the members and the guild will break the agreement.

It's called being a realist. No good, no bad, just each guild doing what it should be doing - what it's members desire.

[jpetrick]

I said a long time ago on the raid discussion that I think if you cut all the mobs spawn timers in half a lot of these problems go away. So any 3 day spawn is now 36 hours and any 7 day spawn is 3.5 days I just find it hard to believe that if all of NToV is spawning every 3.5 days that you will have people going so damn crazy. It would just be way too much raiding for people. Mobs will get left up, other guilds will have a shot, you might even see a bit of decorum between people seeing as you losing a target isn't the end of the fucking world when it comes up again in 3 days.

[Man0warr]

Aaryonar should be the gateway mob to a proposed NToV rotation, as he literally already is.

I said a long time ago on the raid discussion that I think if you cut all the mobs spawn timers in half a lot of these problems go away. So any 3 day spawn is now 36 hours and any 7 day spawn is 3.5 days I just find it hard to believe that if all of NToV is spawning every 3.5 days that you will have people going so damn crazy. It would just be way too much raiding for people. Mobs will get left up, other guilds will have a shot, you might even see a bit of decorum between people seeing as you losing a target isn't the end of the fucking world when it comes up again in 3 days.

You're crazy - it would be the same thing just 2x a week instead of once.

There is ~5-6 NToV capable guilds/alliances on this server - I can't think of a server that had more than two during Velious on Live, that means even 2x as many spawns wouldn't be enough. ToV is meant to be used as 1 guild per wing - that's why they eventually rooted everything, removed safe spots, etc - basically to force crawling through the zone instead of training or camping out inside.

[Kagey]

I said a long time ago on the raid discussion that I think if you cut all the mobs spawn timers in half a lot of these problems go away. So any 3 day spawn is now 36 hours and any 7 day spawn is 3.5 days I just find it hard to believe that if all of NToV is spawning every 3.5 days that you will have people going so damn crazy. It would just be way too much raiding for people. Mobs will get left up, other guilds will have a shot, you might even see a bit of decorum between people seeing as you losing a target isn't the end of the fucking world when it comes up again in 3 days.

Everyone would just have 5 max gear toons. alts would flourish.

[jpetrick]

Everyone would just have 5 max gear toons. alts would flourish.

Think about all the time spent in ToV on sunday. You are willing to do that potentially 3 times a week? Even on a weekday? I just don't see it happening.

[Man0warr]

Think about all the time spent in ToV on sunday. You are willing to do that potentially 3 times a week? Even on a weekday? I just don't see it happening.

I guarantee there is ~200 people on P99 willing to do just that.

[Gimp]

The only option I can see is for one guild to so absolutely dominate TOV that it forces other guilds to come to the table and if any guild breaks it it means domination again. That one guild gets less loot but a lot less boring tracking and FTE and the other guilds get loot.

Short of GM enforcement of the rules this is the only path forward because it incentivizes each member in the agreement to act honorably in order to get what they desire.

As long as CoTHquest exists, no guild will "dominate" NToV. Each mob is essentially a coin flip on first cast, which is gay as hell.

[Loke]

SAYS THE GUY WHO GOES TO BED AT 8PM!


<3

Need my beauty sleep bro. Gotta make sure to be rested for a hard day of forum questing. Early to bed, early to rise, helps a man make up forum quest lies.

[Morlaeth]

Aaryonar should be the gateway mob to a proposed NToV rotation, as he literally already is.

It has been confirmed that Aary is the Big Boss of NToV #itisknown

[Daldaen]

So much bad information in this thread. Most of you need to stop regurgitating fabricated opinions you exchange with each other in late night vent convos. Asgard would sign off on fifield's proposal, 2 mages to cover a wing of 15 targets is reasonable. Awakened's stance of 2 mages per target in a wing of 15 dragons is not reasonable. FA has told awakened for weeks that we would sit down with them and map out new rules, awakened hasn't accepted the invitation and instead started a magician arms race. It doesn't matter who you are or where your information comes from, the above statements are first hand from the top facts and everything else is just people running their mouths. Invitation to work out new rules is still available whenever awakened wants to come to the table.

I've yet to be invited. Invite me and if I'm not at work I'll be there. PS I've only heard of a singular offer being extended a week or two ago (not to me) and it carries the stipulation that multiple petitions must be dropped for changes to occur on a trial basis.

The reason I don't like Fifield's proposal is mages are dumb and CotH racing is dumb. Foot racing would be more fun. Let's get rid of mages and agree to foot race rules instead.

But a genuine question. Let's say, you beat me to FTE on Cekenar because we have a Vulak and Dagarn mage. We saw you had a Vulak Mage but last we heard you had a Koi Mage and our Vulak FTE CotH'd rogue never saw you run in from Koi.

What level of evidence would you require us to present you to prove you exceeded the 2 Mage limit in north warranting a concede of the target?

I ask this because the 2 Mage in north thing is impossible to police amongst ourselves. The only reason we realized you were gating mages to spawns and then CotHing is because you already had 2 Vulak mages in view, just like we did. At that point we had no one else in North, so we had no eyes on the other Mage spots and the only reason we could prove you gated a Mage is because an officer told us you did, and we saw no one CotH'd to Vulak.

You can't police 2 mages per wing in North because you'd need eyes at 3 different mages to prove they're all there and you're breaking the agreement.

Or... Just require anyone getting FTE be camped at entrance (VP pad) behind the door. Only allow 2 ranger trackers in North. And profit.

[Kagey]

#rootpatch2016

[Fifield]

Its pretty clear after reading what alot of you suggested that a rotation wouldn't work for many reasons. And its clear that some of you absolutely hate each other which is fine, competition is what makes us all keep playin.

I am just thinking of 3 months, 6 months, 1 yr from now. Is this how you want NToV to be? I mean obviously both parties are going to do the mage thing for now, we all want upgrades and like myself, are too addicted to this game to not go hard to get those mobs.

Even if we all cant agree on most things, I think we can all agree that we want to somehow create the most enjoyable NToV possible with the 16hr windows were given.

[Fifield]

I've yet to be invited. Invite me and if I'm not at work I'll be there. PS I've only heard of a singular offer being extended a week or two ago (not to me) and it carries the stipulation that multiple petitions must be dropped for changes to occur on a trial basis.

The reason I don't like Fifield's proposal is mages are dumb and CotH racing is dumb. Foot racing would be more fun. Let's get rid of mages and agree to foot race rules instead.

But a genuine question. Let's say, you beat me to FTE on Cekenar because we have a Vulak and Dagarn mage. We saw you had a Vulak Mage but last we heard you had a Koi Mage and our Vulak FTE CotH'd rogue never saw you run in from Koi.

What level of evidence would you require us to present you to prove you exceeded the 2 Mage limit in north warranting a concede of the target?

I ask this because the 2 Mage in north thing is impossible to police amongst ourselves. The only reason we realized you were gating mages to spawns and then CotHing is because you already had 2 Vulak mages in view, just like we did. At that point we had no one else in North, so we had no eyes on the other Mage spots and the only reason we could prove you gated a Mage is because an officer told us you did, and we saw no one CotH'd to Vulak.

You can't police 2 mages per wing in North because you'd need eyes at 3 different mages to prove they're all there and you're breaking the agreement.

Or... Just require anyone getting FTE be camped at entrance (VP pad) behind the door. Only allow 2 ranger trackers in North. And profit.

Yeah dald, I never thought about the whole "policing" the 2 mages in north. You got a point there. we need a judge like in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance lol

[Erati]

when is the meeting Pint?

Velious needs proper raid rules structured for the evironment it birthed

[Nibblewitz]

competition is what makes us all keep playin.


Some people disagree.

[kjs86z]

Man, end game raiding sure does sound like a shit fest.

How do you people get any enjoyment out of this crap?

[FatMice]

A wall of text...

IThe current raid scene in ToV is absolutely stupid and the leaders of FA and Awakened need to just get along for once and come up with some ground rules that both parties could agree on.

I really would like this publicly addressed. Forget having to be on Sirken's stream. Start using the Raid Discussion thread as it was intended on being used. The faster guild leaders start posting public discussions on how they image the raid scene the faster can come to agreeable or disagreeable scenarios. The important thing is it remains public and understandable for all.


Mages are an absolutely terrible way to determine FTE. FTE is also an absolutely terrible way to handle a zone that is intended to be crawled and have guards for every mob semi linked to them.

It requires your tracker be 100% attentive for the entire window. Any faltering at all, even for 1 second and you lose the mob. You fizzle, you lose the mob. You swap out trackers, you lose the mob. It's dumb dumb dumb.


I agree with you that this is a simple dumb scenario, but guess what... both guilds are effected by these short comings. Tell me about other raid mobs where CoTHing isn't required and racing is good outside of VP and TOV. VS comes to mind but how many times does it become a train shit show only to have guilds start freaking out. VS has been going for 6 years on this server. The same problems persist. If people are willing to sit in front of a computer so they can get pixels let them.


The problem I have with some player made agreement is we've been burned on that before. An agreement was made after some QQ about FTEing a second mob while another was engaged. Hokushin was pointed to 2013 era VP rules, and the second mob was dropped. Three weeks later, when Rampage no longer existed, we expected this to be the norm. Naturally when a mob was at 13% we were getting ready to FTE a mob and a guild already engaged in a mob FTEs it, then claims that "agreement" was made with Hokushin only and is now null and void.

These sorts of raid agreements being thrown out After no consultation led to the way things are. Without the server fully enforcing the rule I have minimal faith in their benefit to all guilds involved if on a whim the guilds in an agreement can just throw them to the wind.

So if I am reading this correctly... you are starting to complain that once a guild is no longer raiding or merges with another guild any previous guild agreements are now null and void? I really want this to be clear. Because two weeks ago I guarantee you FA leadership was trying to talk to Awakened about multiple different scenarios where you killed a Dragon Spawn in its own wing and starting placing more Mages than what was understood by a majority of raiders who have been doing TOV for the last 4 months.

I will say this again... if a guild merges or decides they want to stop raiding are you considering all player made agreements to be void? The real problem here is this should be started before you make any assumptions. Also it just comes across against the play nice policy. Guild should be making attempts to work together. There needs to be repercussions if there is no conversation to this and guilds just decided to do what is their best interest without opening discussing this with other guilds.

Let me be clear. The failure to adhere to these rules is no one guild or individual's fault. It's been a server problem since I started. There are almost no penalties in place for canceling out prior agreements on a whim. Which is why making them a server rule is so crucial.

Couldn't agree more. And frankly in my opinion you are as guilty as the rest of them.

What I would prefer personally, beyond full repops, removal of binds or some sort of server rotation (all of which don't appear to have any shot in hell at occuring) is this:

1 ranger tracker at Vulak pillar, face track whatever WToV or Dozekar's you want to.
All FTEers must be behind the entrance door on spawn to be eligible to FTE. Also for Kael you need to be at WL on the dirt area before it turns to Ice because Kael CotHQuest is equally retarded.
SoW or Spirit of Scale allowed, you figure out if the inability to cast is worth extra runspeed.
Any class is allowed to FTE. Run up Hide/Sneak rogue, or monks, or DA bomb with a Necro, or hell just send Rangers for the lols.
Any number of runners allowed.
Anything that happens beyond the wing doorways until FTE goes out is fair game. You want to fire off an AE drake on some hide sneak rogues, go for it. You want to break FD on a few monks by popping AEs, have fun. You wanna leave a rogue hanging way behind waiting for the dust to settle to dance over everyone's corpses and FTE, enjoy yourself. You want to YOLO your way on a defensive warrior back to Cekenar have fun.

But last I heard the concern about foot races was maybe people would set off north mob AEs on purpose to break hides and sneaks. Meh so what, so long as it's happening before FTE goes out, have fun.

Once that turns into a cluster of 15 monks at the zoneline at all times maybe people will come back to the drawing boards and consider perhaps devoting 6+ people to tracking each mob isn't worth it when the split on mobs is 50/50 anyways and rotations may be the way to go after all.

Based on how you have been FTE'ing the last two weeks; you're the guild that seemingly wants 6 mages/trackers in West, 30 mages/trackers in North and 2 Mages/Trackers in East. Also saying "Anything that happens beyond the wing doorways until FTE goes out is fair game." just has to be dumbest string of words I have ever read in a player attempt agreement.

Quite sure this was the agreement between FA/Rampage:

--2 mages per wing. This makes you have to pick and prioritize your mobs

But since you broke this during the last two weeks you clearly don't agree.

Current Raid scene in TOV is "Classic". I can remember pulling every named dragon to the Entrance or Exit. What's the problem?

For the last time: This server does it's best to emulate a live "classic" server. This server is being played as 15 year old content being pushed to the limit with current game mechanics and played at a high level. Drop the classic bullshit.

Just rotated it weekly. No mages, no tracking, no bs wasting time to play a game.

Increase drop rate and spawn rate and you might be on to something, however we know that won't happen. I don't need to go into the details on why this really won't ever happen. Also all the bullshit of who broke the previous rotation, etc. etc. doesn't even matter; the numbers just don't support a rotation in ToV.

good god all they would talk about is chipolte

This will set your ass on fire.

Taken always said they would move to the bleeding edge when we were ready to do so. We were (and are still) a guild that caters to the casual as well as the hardcore so that isn't something that just happens immediately. It takes work.

Also it is important to add that when we were actually ready for it, the FAT alliance wouldn't allow us to participate in NTOV with them. And we still had to shoulder the majority of your tracking. So fuck you :)

You can't blame us for going with Rampage who actually offered us something fair. We worked so well together which resulted in the <Awakened> guild you now see.

Whats funny is you guys always shit on us for having to share loot. Looks like you are now what you shit on and we are a single top guild.

FA has nobody else to blame but themselves for what happened. QQ more about it.

If you believe this you ate Chipolte for dinner and you're ass is on fire. I think you caught shit because you guys didn't communicate well with FA. Rushing on a KT engage. Leaving a CT track without notifying other guilds. Because you guys where seemingly more casual then, you guys really didn't show up to other raids with your larger numbers than you do now. And be honest, correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that is really boils down to you and your members just not liking Detoxx and old TMO members because how they treated you guys during the heart of Kunark.

I don't think anyone is blaming you for making Awakened or stepping away from the FAT alliance.

The majority of the members in Forsaken really enjoy the competition. And yes, you have competed well during the last two weeks.

http://i.imgur.com/6FUenxz.jpg

If you can't understand how this was a planned character assignation from Hokushin. toward Detoxx and Hoku decided to leave the server then just fuck it all. Do I like reading messages from my guild leader like this? Simply put; No. I don't like any of you thinking my guild leader really is this obnoxious loathing individual; don't mix up passion and drive with unfiltered indignation. From what everyone can perceive Hoku and Detoxx never got along; only difference is Hoku made it everyone's business to hate on Detoxx. Maybe in the Unbrella/Detoxx/Hokushin menage a trois someone got the smaller stick. I don't know; but I am getting sick and tired of past history effecting so many players on this server. Let alone one who fucked the entire server by Awakening the Sleeper.

100% down for this. Whoever kills Sontalak gets TOV for the weekend.

Anyway, all I see is Fifield slowly realizing FA's 'we ran Rampage off the server because we are this amazing competitive force' narrative is pure spin. You guys had no problem trying to burn out Rampage with this mage idiocy, expecting that history would repeat and you guys would get a year of uncontested TOV the way TMO got a year of uncontested VP after Kunark. Instead you got two weeks: awakened is already the number one guild on the server, scoring over 50% in TOV and killing Tunare/AOW from 100%.

I don't see us making any player agreements, either. FA has a long history of being very . . . creative . . . with player agreements, e.g. Nalken and shadowstep. I personally would vote for a rotation in TOV, but on our side I kind of have to wonder if your alliance will just fall apart in another month or two of this.

What you should be doing is trying to get everyone from the four major guilds together to agree on a repop system. Something like 1/3 of all raid mobs, spread equally across all zones simultaneously respawn 5x per weeek at a random time weighted towards North America > Europe > Asia with some sort of anti parkout system where everyone has to start from a 'rally zone' and no Kael/TOV binds sounds super fun.

Exactly who is creating the mage idiocy? See my comment above. But rotation will not work without an increased drop rate or spawn rate. Also your post smells of bullshit and not best-in-slot. I really want to know the numbers. How many Ex-Rampagers are in Takens new guild?

With Keg and Hoku no longer leading the opposition to Forsaken; it's a chance to start anew, no?

Perhaps if Awakened doesn't want to deal with Detoxx they should consider talking to Pint... or anyone for that matter. Word on the street is they are still trying to figure out /tell or /reply.

I dunno, we got a strong dose of Detoxx berging out at Draco the other day. Doesn't seem like he's changing for the better.

That's because you didn't pull Draco directly to camp. You had agro jump from the FTE to the Kiter back to the FTEr. The above "FTE is all that matters" will result with same shit storm surrounding Lodi right now. http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229663

TLDR; Golden Eye 2v2: Slappers only + Big heads + License to kill; winner gets Vulak.

[Erati]

I love when "a few things" means txt wall

just say heres many things!

[khanable]

If changing the raid rules to be more casual doesn't work out for OP he could always resort to training the fuck out of the opposing guild to buy his guild more time. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDNUjtlRJWc)

[Elmarnieh]

As long as CoTHquest exists, no guild will "dominate" NToV. Each mob is essentially a coin flip on first cast, which is gay as hell.

That assumes some GM enforcement of the rules.

I do not see that being the case currently.

[FatMice]

I love when "a few things" means txt wall

just say heres many things!

I edited it.

[Elmarnieh]

At the end of the day the only things I am positive on are that I am adorable and that the labor theory of value is a load of bunk.

[FatMice]

If changing the raid rules to be more casual doesn't work out for OP he could always resort to training the fuck out of the opposing guild to buy his guild more time. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDNUjtlRJWc)

If you uploaded the FRAPs of this and provided a link and contacted Detoxx I am sure he would have conceded. But if you tell Detoxx, hey we have just got trained and don't provide FRAPs or say, "we don't have to show you anything" you just won't get the results you are looking for.

[MavstabYoudead]

<Asgard> is and will always be the best guild on the server regardless of whether they raid or not.

<Awakend> is just the next latest incarnation in a long list of crap guild mergers that essentially involve the same group of neck-beards. Call it FE, IB, A-Team, Rampage, TMO, its all the same, and it ends the same every time as well.

personally never had a bad interaction with an asgard in game, but every alliance i've been in with them they've brought the least to the table.

still remember cr'ing this guild on my paladin in plane of fear after wipes early on.

[Thugnuts]

There is ~5-6 NToV capable guilds/alliances on this server

1. Take every raiding character belonging to those guilds and permabind them in ToV.
2. Restrict their ability to zone out.
3. Leave them there for six months.

That way, they can still have their shitfest with each other 24 hours a day, only it'll be contained to one zone and won't trickle down onto the rest of us.

At the end of six months, those left standing can emerge from ToV with their fancy pixels and we can all be impressed. Ohhh wow, your 16 hour coth ducking sessions and 4am batphones earned you the Spergy Blade of Sundering! OMG. :eek:

[kjs86z]

4 am batphone?

really?

You sickos put off life to wake up for a phone call at 4 am on a weekday to get pixels?

Holy shit. What have I gotten myself into?

[xexbis0]

A wall of text...



I really would like this publicly addressed. Forget having to be on Sirken's stream. Start using the Raid Discussion thread as it was intended on being used. The faster guild leaders start posting public discussions on how they image the raid scene the faster can come to agreeable or disagreeable scenarios. The important thing is it remains public and understandable for all.





I agree with you that this is a simple dumb scenario, but guess what... both guilds are effected by these short comings. Tell me about other raid mobs where CoTHing isn't required and racing is good outside of VP and TOV. VS comes to mind but how many times does it become a train shit show only to have guilds start freaking out. VS has been going for 6 years on this server. The same problems persist. If people are willing to sit in front of a computer so they can get pixels let them.




So if I am reading this correctly... you are starting to complain that once a guild is no longer raiding or merges with another guild any previous guild agreements are now null and void? I really want this to be clear. Because two weeks ago I guarantee you FA leadership was trying to talk to Awakened about multiple different scenarios where you killed a Dragon Spawn in its own wing and starting placing more Mages than what was understood by a majority of raiders who have been doing TOV for the last 4 months.

I will say this again... if a guild merges or decides they want to stop raiding are you considering all player made agreements to be void? The real problem here is this should be started before you make any assumptions. Also it just comes across against the play nice policy. Guild should be making attempts to work together. There needs to be repercussions if there is no conversation to this and guilds just decided to do what is their best interest without opening discussing this with other guilds.



Couldn't agree more. And frankly in my opinion you are as guilty as the rest of them.



Based on how you have been FTE'ing the last two weeks; you're the guild that seemingly wants 6 mages/trackers in West, 30 mages/trackers in North and 2 Mages/Trackers in East. Also saying "Anything that happens beyond the wing doorways until FTE goes out is fair game." just has to be dumbest string of words I have ever read in a player attempt agreement.

Quite sure this was the agreement between FA/Rampage:



But since you broke this during the last two weeks you clearly don't agree.



For the last time: This server does it's best to emulate a live "classic" server. This server is being played as 15 year old content being pushed to the limit with current game mechanics and played at a high level. Drop the classic bullshit.



Increase drop rate and spawn rate and you might be on to something, however we know that won't happen. I don't need to go into the details on why this really won't ever happen. Also all the bullshit of who broke the previous rotation, etc. etc. doesn't even matter; the numbers just don't support a rotation in ToV.



This will set your ass on fire.



If you believe this you ate Chipolte for dinner and you're ass is on fire. I think you caught shit because you guys didn't communicate well with FA. Rushing on a KT engage. Leaving a CT track without notifying other guilds. Because you guys where seemingly more casual then, you guys really didn't show up to other raids with your larger numbers than you do now. And be honest, correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that is really boils down to you and your members just not liking Detoxx and old TMO members because how they treated you guys during the heart of Kunark.

I don't think anyone is blaming you for making Awakened or stepping away from the FAT alliance.

The majority of the members in Forsaken really enjoy the competition. And yes, you have competed well during the last two weeks.



If you can't understand how this was a planned character assignation from Hokushin. toward Detoxx and Hoku decided to leave the server then just fuck it all. Do I like reading messages from my guild leader like this? Simply put; No. I don't like any of you thinking my guild leader really is this obnoxious loathing individual; don't mix up passion and drive with unfiltered indignation. From what everyone can perceive Hoku and Detoxx never got along; only difference is Hoku made it everyone's business to hate on Detoxx. Maybe in the Unbrella/Detoxx/Hokushin menage a trois someone got the smaller stick. I don't know; but I am getting sick and tired of past history effecting so many players on this server. Let alone one who fucked the entire server by Awakening the Sleeper.



Exactly who is creating the mage idiocy? See my comment above. But rotation will not work without an increased drop rate or spawn rate. Also your post smells of bullshit and not best-in-slot. I really want to know the numbers. How many Ex-Rampagers are in Takens new guild?



Perhaps if Awakened doesn't want to deal with Detoxx they should consider talking to Pint... or anyone for that matter. Word on the street is they are still trying to figure out /tell or /reply.



That's because you didn't pull Draco directly to camp. You had agro jump from the FTE to the Kiter back to the FTEr. The above "FTE is all that matters" will result with same shit storm surrounding Lodi right now. http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229663

TLDR;

Zoole. Clever of you to leave out the fact FA started the mage arms race by binding at mob locations and gating there upon pop. You don't think Awakened and every other guild who plays in that litter box thought of that idea 10x over? You violated the Rampage/Forsaken rules by pulling a 2nd dragon while another was still engaged as well. Wonderful spin cycle here. If Forsaken was serious about this, it would happen. That's just a fact. We shouldn't have to give you "concessions" to come to the negotiating table. That's laughable. I just think it's funny that days after getting your ass spanked in ToV, Forsaken is the "white knight" coming in who has clean hands of all of this nonsense.

[Elmarnieh]

Hey guys, we could always start coh ducking again!

[MavstabYoudead]

Zoole. Clever of you to leave out the fact FA started the mage arms race by binding at mob locations and gating there upon pop. You don't think Awakened and every other guild who plays in that litter box thought of that idea 10x over? You violated the Rampage/Forsaken rules by pulling a 2nd dragon while another was still engaged as well. Wonderful spin cycle here. If Forsaken was serious about this, it would happen. That's just a fact. We shouldn't have to give you "concessions" to come to the negotiating table. That's laughable. I just think it's funny that days after getting your ass spanked in ToV, Forsaken is the "white knight" coming in who has clean hands of all of this nonsense.

also forgot to mention that FA expected taken to do all of the tracking outside of NTOV when they were in there because they were preoccupied with NTOV and couldn't be bothered.

[Breaken]

I think you caught shit because you guys didn't communicate well with FA. Rushing on a KT engage. Leaving a CT track without notifying other guilds. Because you guys where seemingly more casual then, you guys really didn't show up to other raids with your larger numbers than you do now. And be honest, correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that is really boils down to you and your members just not liking Detoxx and old TMO members because how they treated you guys during the heart of Kunark.

I will correct you, because you are wrong. We often expressed our frustration with being told we were to track mobs outside of ToV while FA would sock ToV. We were told numerous times that FA was "too busy in ToV" to track other targets. We stated that, due to not being a part of ToV mobs, that was not our problem. Our other issue was that loot was not being rotated. Instead, 1 top item was rotated, and then there was a pick rotation. We believed a full rotation of items was more fair. Detoxx and Pint disagreed, saying that they did not want to get stuck with no good loot from a mob. My explanation was, that is how a rotation works..

But if you tell Detoxx, hey we have just got trained and don't provide FRAPs or say, "we don't have to show you anything" you just won't get the results you are looking for.

I am of the belief, if you know you did it, why should the other guild have to prove it to you? All you are doing is fishing to see if there is real evidence. Why is the first response, "fraps?". You know you did it.

[RedXIII]

If changing the raid rules to be more casual doesn't work out for OP he could always resort to training the fuck out of the opposing guild to buy his guild more time. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDNUjtlRJWc)

Love it. this last weekend it happened once or twice again Cucu... some things never change.

[Gorillas]

The problem with this server is that there's too many pathetic people without social lives or real jobs.

The end game guild leaders are all a bunch of pathetic neckbeards who think they're famous for having a pixel. This server isn't worth playing on

[FatMice]

Zoole. Clever of you to leave out the fact FA started the mage arms race by binding at mob locations and gating there upon pop. You don't think Awakened and every other guild who plays in that litter box thought of that idea 10x over? You violated the Rampage/Forsaken rules by pulling a 2nd dragon while another was still engaged as well. Wonderful spin cycle here. If Forsaken was serious about this, it would happen. That's just a fact. We shouldn't have to give you "concessions" to come to the negotiating table. That's laughable. I just think it's funny that days after getting your ass spanked in ToV, Forsaken is the "white knight" coming in who has clean hands of all of this nonsense.

I am speaking to the knowledge I am aware of. Let me preface the following that I am currently a 50% 30-day raid attendance and 35% life time raider.

I was there that night when we set up Mages. This set up started after the player-made-agreement between Rampage and FA, correct me if I am wrong 2 mages per wing and you can't kill mobs in the wing they spawn in. The results in this conversation, to my knowledge (because I can't point to anything execpt for this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220664) there was and still is an unclear discussion on where Mages will be allowed based on the Play-Nice-Policy. Any issues with either guild Mage location seemingly was brushed under the rug within a week.

[Gorillas]

I am speaking to the knowledge I am aware of. Let me preface the following that I am currently a 50% 30-day raid attendance and 35% life time raider.

I was there that night when we set up Mages. This set up started after the player-made-agreement between Rampage and FA, correct me if I am wrong 2 mages per wing and you can't kill mobs in the wing they spawn in. The results in this conversation, to my knowledge (because I can't point to anything execpt for this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220664) there was and still is an unclear discussion on where Mages will be allowed based on the Play-Nice-Policy. Any issues with either guild Mage location seemingly was brushed under the rug within a week.

Do any of the neckbeards here do the content as intended? Or does everyone enjoy sitting at the zone out waiting for a dragon to appear? You have to be pathetic to enjoy staring at a wall and not even seeing the dungeon content.

[MavstabYoudead]

I am speaking to the knowledge I am aware of. Let me preface the following that I am currently a 50% 30-day raid attendance and 35% life time raider.

I was there that night when we set up Mages. This set up started after the player-made-agreement between Rampage and FA, correct me if I am wrong 2 mages per wing and you can't kill mobs in the wing they spawn in. The results in this conversation, to my knowledge (because I can't point to anything execpt for this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220664) there was and still is an unclear discussion on where Mages will be allowed based on the Play-Nice-Policy. Any issues with either guild Mage location seemingly was brushed under the rug within a week.

detoxx set the precedent that any agreement between FA and rampage was dead because rampage was no longer a guild... talk to your own leadership.

[FatMice]

I will correct you, because you are wrong. We often expressed our frustration with being told we were to track mobs outside of ToV while FA would sock ToV. We were told numerous times that FA was "too busy in ToV" to track other targets. We stated that, due to not being a part of ToV mobs, that was not our problem. Our other issue was that loot was not being rotated. Instead, 1 top item was rotated, and then there was a pick rotation. We believed a full rotation of items was more fair. Detoxx and Pint disagreed, saying that they did not want to get stuck with no good loot from a mob. My explanation was, that is how a rotation works..

So leadership didn't come to an agreement. Hence the alliance died.

Most likely this started from a point of, well, entitlement. An attitude of "well we have been there longer or killed these mobs before them." I am not aware of Detoxx's reasoning and nor do I ever say I talk on his behalf so in my opinion the FA and FAT alliances started because there was a point where 4/5 guild were bottle necked at Eashen. It was train on top of train on top of train. Now here is the strategy that, lets say isn't the nicest but where competition is born from, instead of dealing with this lets have them join us and show them how we have been pulling in ToV and successfully killing the raid targets. Note, this is just one possible scenario.

I am of the belief, if you know you did it, why should the other guild have to prove it to you? All you are doing is fishing to see if there is real evidence. Why is the first response, "fraps?". You know you did it.

Give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I don't care who you are talking to. The first response is "fraps?" because of the ingrained lawyer questing that has plagued this server. Hoku's planned an exodus off this server that not only woke the sleeper but has now put in motion a guild killing petition query against Forsaken. If we get 1 or 2 more raid petitions against us then we are out 6 days. Then another 7 after that. You think 70 people are willing to wait around for that? So when you get "fraps?" as a response to concede your mob you trained us we need to be sure we did so. Just like you, some of our members haven't FTE'd or aren't perfect and make mistakes. It happens. At the very least if you are going to make accusations have the chutzpah to make an attempt to provide proof and work together. Hell, we worked with CSG and BDA on Trak when we fucked up. We had to concede Trak becuase of our mistakes. It happens.

[Nibblewitz]

The benefit of the doubt that they saw what you did.

[FatMice]

detoxx set the precedent that any agreement between FA and rampage was dead because rampage was no longer a guild... talk to your own leadership.

Two weeks ago? What? Last week? Because this shit is obvious as of now. When you guys were planting Mages all over the place we did not reciprocate because not only Detoxx but Pint as well didn't have the slightest clue why you guys thought have 2 Mages at each target was permissible.

[khanable]

Are you really conplaining about getting more suspensions as if you guys are victims?

[Tycoon]

Rotations are garbage. Every Joe Blow will feel entitled to their week and will ruin it for the hundreds that are more interested in/capable of doing it under the gun.

That being said, this is an emu elf sim that is rerunning 15 year old content. Plenty of people playing here should be able to experience it without competing with the neckbeards. Where are the earthquakes? If we're going to instil any kind of rotation I feel it should be based on planned earthquakes where the 'Class R' guilds get to battle it out and the neckbeards grab popcorn.

Also, CothQuest is GARBAGE and we should be rid of it on all FTE's. Not just ToV

[Man0warr]

There should be more Earthquakes. At least 4 a month - we were promised at least 2 a month during the last raid summit with Rogean.

It all boils down to there not being enough content for this un-classically top heavy server.

[Gorillas]

There should be more Earthquakes. At least 4 a month - we were promised at least 2 a month during the last raid summit with Rogean.

It all boils down to there not being enough content for this un-classically top heavy server.

That's true, maybe if some of you 5-6 year veterans would move on with your lives other people could enjoy the server

[FatMice]

Are you really conplaining about getting more suspensions as if you guys are victims?

No I am saying a negative petition against us would undoubtedly be terrible for us why concede without proof? All while the person asking for a concede doesn't provide proof?

[Man0warr]

That's true, maybe if some of you 5-6 year veterans would move on with your lives other people could enjoy the server

My guild is casual, we aren't socking 16 hour spawns. I play for the people in my guild - P99 is just the best medium for that because most modern MMOs have no reason to be social or in a guild.

[Danth]

That way, they can still have their shitfest with each other 24 hours a day, only it'll be contained to one zone and won't trickle down onto the rest of us.

This is just about the case now. I only occasionally encounter Forsaken or Awakened tags in-game. They sequester themselves away in Temple Veeshan and hardly exist in most the rest of the game. That's fine by me. I don't much care what they do or how much they hate each other as long as it isn't spilling over into the parts of the game I enjoy.

Danth

[FatMice]

Certainly more Earthquakes would be best for all guilds.

[xexbis0]

There should be more Earthquakes. At least 4 a month - we were promised at least 2 a month during the last raid summit with Rogean.

It all boils down to there not being enough content for this un-classically top heavy server.

Earthquakes solve a ton of the problems presented here for the lower tier. It allows them to prioritize mobs that they would otherwise would have a hard time competing on. KT/Statue/AoW (BDA/CSG joint raid?)/CT/Dain...just to name a few of the mobs that could be feasible. Then the tiers below them could actually try the Sevs/Traks/VS's of the world. I think we've had 2 earthquakes since launch IIRC? That's 2 in half a year. Not even close to 2 a month.

ETA: I think we don't see as many "aggressive approaches" to earthquakes because they are so few and far between. It's take what you can get once every 3 months as opposed to "let's take a shot and have a fricking blast doing it" cause we get another try in 2-3 weeks.

[Daldaen]

No I am saying a negative petition against us would undoubtedly be terrible for us why concede without proof? All while the person asking for a concede doesn't provide proof?

In which case the 2 Mage in NToV rule suggestion is retarded.

It CANNOT be policed.

This server people ALWAYS want FRAPS or Screenshots otherwise they'll keep on killing the mob they FTE'd. You cannot get FRAPS over 3 mages in 3 different locations at a time of pop when you yourself are playing by the rules and only have 2 mages in north.

Back to what I said. Forsaken or Asgard or BDA or CSG or any guild looking to compete in Velious, I'm more than happy to discuss some outlines for rules on foot racing and agreeing to never CotH for FTE. The problem is we need Sirken to ratify the agreement so that real punishment can be handed down for breaking it.

I think if we could come together to find common ground, Sirken would do this.

-------

Earthquakes would help immensely. I like that Velious quakes reset respawn timers that is nice but they need to be way more frequent. Rogean being the only person with that power though is what is holding them back from occuring.

[khanable]

No I am saying a negative petition against us would undoubtedly be terrible for us why concede without proof? All while the person asking for a concede doesn't provide proof?

what

[azeth]

So much bad information in this thread. Most of you need to stop regurgitating fabricated opinions you exchange with each other in late night vent convos. Asgard would sign off on fifield's proposal, 2 mages to cover a wing of 15 targets is reasonable. Awakened's stance of 2 mages per target in a wing of 15 dragons is not reasonable

Not reasonable to whom? We got ours, tough weekend on you guys I guess

[Kodim]

It's kind of sad to read this entire thread and realize that more repops is all the server needs.

[Erati]

My favorite part is FA spinners continue to cite 1 post by Pint as law for the '2 mage per wing' and 'dont kill the mob within the wing you reside in' agreement

Awakened, Taken Your Bacon, Taken, or Bacon did not sign off on such a thing nor were any of our leadership present at this discussion.

It is not in the server rules nor is it sanctioned by Sirken as raid rules, but continue to point to 1 lone post by Asgard's guild leader that this is the law of the land.

[Naethyn]

FA would come out ahead in all of this if Detoxx wasn't in the leadership picture.

[FatMice]

My favorite part is FA spinners continue to cite 1 post by Pint as law for the '2 mage per wing' and 'dont kill the mob within the wing you reside in' agreement

Awakened, Taken Your Bacon, Taken, or Bacon did not sign off on such a thing nor were any of our leadership present at this discussion.

It is not in the server rules nor is it sanctioned by Sirken as raid rules, but continue to point to 1 lone post by Asgard's guild leader that this is the law of the land.

We understand! The only difference here is we were under a different impression. Since once this post was made, Taken, Bacon, Turkey Bacon, and Rampage were only using 2 Mages until two weeks ago when Awakened decided to because they didn't agree to it or decided to act on a loop hole not acted on by Rampage and Taken.

If you don't get a rotation you are going to get your members to put more Mages and Trackers in ToV. Go for it. You're the one saying CoTH Races are stupid and carrying the "We are a casual guild" tote bag. Your actions are saying one thing while your propaganda is saying the other thing. Let me fix this for you... <Awakened> BS if you want BiS.

I would still appreciate a response to my epic long wall of text!

[Raev]

Exactly who is creating the mage idiocy?

Rampage and Forsaken agreed to waive server rules in NTOV because neither guild wanted to be crawling around only to forfeit mobs due to the requirement to start at the zone in. This lasted for 5-6 months until Forsaken cried autofire, and Sirken reinstated server rules. At that point everyone agreed to only have two mages per wing to minimize tracking effort. And this lasted until Forsaken began gating mages into North.

So when you get "fraps?" as a response to concede your mob you trained us we need to be sure we did so.
I'm pretty sure that you don't get 'volume of infractions' points if you concede. You've chosen to play hardball lawyerquest on conceding mobs rather than just asking your players whether they trained the opposing raid.

I called this on the Awakened forums a few weeks ago. FA have been playing the short game: zerg recruiting everyone who walks through the WL portal, telling Rampage to pound sand over every petition, pushing to void player agreements that reduce tracking workload, and promising everyone that uncontested NTOV for a year will fix everything. TBH, it wasn't a bad strategy. The last time this happened TMO crushed VD. But this time Awakened pulled it together, and FA is in a tough spot.

I would love to see some sort of joint petition from all of the major guilds requesting more earthquakes. Reality is, everyone immediately does the math and if the new system would reduce their pixel count by 0.1% they vote no. Awakened and FA will both be the biggest losers in any earthquake system since we can't be everywhere at once. I remember Unbrella making some big pro earthquake statement until his clerks told him TMO would get fewer mobs and he suddenly changed his tune.

[arsenalpow]

Earthquakes solve a ton of the problems presented here for the lower tier. It allows them to prioritize mobs that they would otherwise would have a hard time competing on. KT/Statue/AoW (BDA/CSG joint raid?)/CT/Dain...just to name a few of the mobs that could be feasible. Then the tiers below them could actually try the Sevs/Traks/VS's of the world. I think we've had 2 earthquakes since launch IIRC? That's 2 in half a year. Not even close to 2 a month.

ETA: I think we don't see as many "aggressive approaches" to earthquakes because they are so few and far between. It's take what you can get once every 3 months as opposed to "let's take a shot and have a fricking blast doing it" cause we get another try in 2-3 weeks.

Let's not have this convo again. I'm not going to speak for the other guilds on that list but saying BDA "has a hard time competing" is dumb. Refusing to participate in that shit show isn't the same as being unable to compete. I think you'd have a lot more guilds testing the velious waters if the scene wasn't so fucking awful. Even the few times I cross paths with Forsaken it's always just fucking miserable.

[Spyder73]

I would still appreciate a response to my epic long wall of text!

TLDR - show tits or GTFO

[MavstabYoudead]

We understand! The only difference here is we were under a different impression. Since once this post was made, Taken, Bacon, Turkey Bacon, and Rampage were only using 2 Mages until two weeks ago when Awakened decided to because they didn't agree to it or decided to act on a loop hole not acted on by Rampage and Taken.

If you don't get a rotation you are going to get your members to put more Mages and Trackers in ToV. Go for it. You're the one saying CoTH Races are stupid and carrying the "We are a casual guild" tote bag. Your actions are saying one thing while your propaganda is saying the other thing. Let me fix this for you... <Awakened> BS if you want BiS.

I would still appreciate a response to my epic long wall of text!

Again who started this thread? Were you guys not gating mages to coth spots and having more than 2 mages in the wings anyways? Quit being a hypocrite.

[Elmarnieh]

I mean if F wants to keep sploiting in zones we can maintain 70% kill ratio advantage for a while should cause enough to bring F to the table. Trackers kind of like raking in the dkp that helps buy all the items we nab.

*shrugs*

[Ella`Ella]

I remember Unbrella making some big pro earthquake statement until his clerks told him TMO would get fewer mobs and he suddenly changed his tune.

I don't remember changing my tune on this, at least not because of our immediate competition. If I did change my stance from being Pro-Earthquake, it was probably because I feared that TMO/IB would be stuck in VP while BDA scum would be able to get mobs like Trak and CT - I wasn't having that.

[Erati]

We understand! The only difference here is we were under a different impression. Since once this post was made, Taken, Bacon, Turkey Bacon, and Rampage were only using 2 Mages until two weeks ago when Awakened decided to because they didn't agree to it or decided to act on a loop hole not acted on by Rampage and Taken.

If you don't get a rotation you are going to get your members to put more Mages and Trackers in ToV. Go for it. You're the one saying CoTH Races are stupid and carrying the "We are a casual guild" tote bag. Your actions are saying one thing while your propaganda is saying the other thing. Let me fix this for you... <Awakened> BS if you want BiS.

I would still appreciate a response to my epic long wall of text!

The text wall has alot going on and I was not by my pc - can respond to bits of it later

When Trampage was formed - NTOV raiding in the alliance was mostly still controlled by Rampage cause they had the experience raiding in the zone. Taken was being shown the ropes slowly but all the agreements in place between FA and Rampage were still being used with Trampage bc again ToV was Rampage vs FA playground - Taken had to be brought up to speed - no reason to muck up agreements when we were simply bolstering kill forces and mob opportunities.

So to say we are using a loophole is a bit disingenuous, asking Sirken for clarification is not a loophole, its getting clarity on what is allowed which he informed us to follow server rules.

[FatMice]

Rampage and Forsaken agreed to waive server rules in NTOV because neither guild wanted to be crawling around only to forfeit mobs due to the requirement to start at the zone in. This lasted for 5-6 months until Forsaken cried autofire, and Sirken reinstated server rules. At that point everyone agreed to only have two mages per wing to minimize tracking effort. And this lasted until Forsaken began gating mages into North.


I'm pretty sure that you don't get 'volume of infractions' points if you concede. You've chosen to play hardball lawyerquest on conceding mobs rather than just asking your players whether they trained the opposing raid.

I called this on the Awakened forums a few weeks ago. FA have been playing the short game: zerg recruiting everyone who walks through the WL portal, telling Rampage to pound sand over every petition, pushing to void player agreements that reduce tracking workload, and promising everyone that uncontested NTOV for a year will fix everything. TBH, it wasn't a bad strategy. The last time this happened TMO crushed VD. But this time Awakened pulled it together, and FA is in a tough spot.

I would love to see some sort of joint petition from all of the major guilds requesting more earthquakes. Reality is, everyone immediately does the math and if the new system would reduce their pixel count by 0.1% they vote no. Awakened and FA will both be the biggest losers in any earthquake system since we can't be everywhere at once. I remember Unbrella making some big pro earthquake statement until his clerks told him TMO would get fewer mobs and he suddenly changed his tune.

In my opinion I don't like the recruitment tactic of invite it if it breathes. It has only created more work filtering the apps out that don't pan out. I will always claim quality over quantity.

I can't post in Raid Discussion. http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219143 This post and thread was already started. Lets make it happen. All 1200+ players would benefit from this.

[FatMice]

So to say we are using a loophole is a bit disingenuous, asking Sirken for clarification is not a loophole, its getting clarity on what is allowed which he informed us to follow server rules.

To the above quote... were other guild leadership notified of this? If not, can't you see how this is a loophole or perceived as disingenuous if you have direct access to Sirken on a ruling without another guild leader present?

Otherwise you literally just admitted that you talk directly with Sirken without other guild leaders present. Now the tin foil hatters will be going to the max. If, guild leaders/officers make their talks publicly to the Raid Discussion forms thing will be much better off.

[baue1446]

Honestly why cant we just have an agreement...

Each week one guild gets NTOV the other gets everything outside.. and just keep switching weeks. This game is 17 years old poopsocking shit for 24 hours a day is the most retarded thing ive ever heard of

[Elmarnieh]

Honestly why cant we just have an agreement...

Each week one guild gets NTOV the other gets everything outside.. and just keep switching weeks. This game is 17 years old poopsocking shit for 24 hours a day is the most retarded thing ive ever heard of

That is not actually terribad.

[Ella`Ella]

Taking bets on how many pages this thread goes.

What's your over under?
I've got 5k on 30 pages by 12am EST. Any takers?

[Pokesan]

if you participate in NTOV at this point it's 99% likely you should fucking kill yourself

[FatMice]

Taking bets on how many pages this thread goes.

What's your over under?
I've got 5k on 30 pages by 12am EST. Any takers?

Doesn't honor bets. Still looking for my 20k.

[Whirled]

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/jon-stewart-popcorn.gif

IMO, if they can code an anti cheat dll to bust boxing, why not code who gets what and if u don't fit in that classification, blammo - u get DC'ed
Would stop training also since X was not supposed to tag such & such raid monster.
/not classic armor on

[Spyder73]

I will give a CoF to whoever posts the best FanFic...oh wait...I win because its already linked in my sig. SUCKMYDIC

[Pokesan]

I will give a CoF to whoever posts the best FanFic...oh wait...I win because its already linked in my sig. SUCKMYDIC

reminder that this poster lied about going to jail, for attention.

[Freakish]

Aw man, it hit RnF. There goes everyone who can't post here for fear of dkp docking. Looking at Gimp over here.

[Herp]

lol remind whose fault it is that we have these rules in place now. Which guild leader was it sending tells that "it won't be this way for long, just you wait" about 3-4 months ago. Please, remind me.

[Fire Beetle]

lol remind whose fault it is that we have these rules in place now. Which guild leader was it sending tells that "it won't be this way for long, just you wait" about 3-4 months ago. Please, remind me.

I guess we have to play games on this server. So once this posts his RnF you bring us a puzzle. Why just put up or shut up?

[Nibblewitz]

The first step in grasping straws is pretending they are actually there.

[Speedi]

Basically yes.

The way things are guilds mob counts wouldn't shift much if we just did a 50/50 split.

But once CSG and BDA ask to be on the rotation and that drops to 25%, there will be salt.

100% agree with that. And I wouldn't blame people for getting salty.

If there was a rotation I would suggest a silent agreement. This way you avoid the other guilds trying to get free loot.

The moment you posted a public agreement, within a month or less other guilds would be wanting it in on it as well.

Loose lips sink ships! :)

[Gimp]

Aw man, it hit RnF. There goes everyone who can't post here for fear of dkp docking. Looking at Gimp over here.

I still loves u

[Uuruk]

I can't believe you idiots still raid on project1999. Enjoy raiding temple of Veeshan forever.

Idiots.

[Gimp]

And I only posted in this thread like twice, why you callin me out brobeans

[Ella`Ella]

100% agree with that. And I wouldn't blame people for getting salty.

If there was a rotation I would suggest a silent agreement. This way you avoid the other guilds trying to get free loot.

The moment you posted a public agreement, within a month or less other guilds would be wanting it in on it as well.

Loose lips sink ships! :)

^

If you're going to rotate mobs - which Awakened and ForsakenGard really should, since there are no more 'firsts' to be had, keep it between yourselves.

[Maner]

My favorite part is FA spinners continue to cite 1 post by Pint as law for the '2 mage per wing' and 'dont kill the mob within the wing you reside in' agreement

Awakened, Taken Your Bacon, Taken, or Bacon did not sign off on such a thing nor were any of our leadership present at this discussion.

It is not in the server rules nor is it sanctioned by Sirken as raid rules, but continue to point to 1 lone post by Asgard's guild leader that this is the law of the land.

Wait, so you acknowledge the agreement but don't think you have to follow it because you technically aren't rampage? What exactly are you then? even though you followed and agreed to it while in an alliance with Rampage? Seems like awakened is the guild that refused to follow previously agreed upon rules just because they reformed under a new guild tag yet you are blaming FA for doing the exact same? Wasn't it awakeneds first week where they killed LTK at her spawn then bitched about mages gating?

[Spyder73]

I can't believe you idiots still raid on project1999. Enjoy raiding temple of Veeshan forever.

Idiots.

"the Quest for Wu'Tang is about the journey, not the destination" - Tekilya Wu'Tang

[Colgate]

smh @ this shit

[Sweettouch]

So much spinning that I will puke out blood

[Pokesan]

'bog and rog' oughta shut it down for a week, give sanity a chance

[AzzarTheGod]

'bog and rog' oughta shut it down for a week, give sanity a chance

why 'bog and rog'.

im partial to 'bog and 'gean.

keep it consistent.

[Kodim]

This server is a good example of why future MMOs will always be instanced and more casualized.

[Pokesan]

why 'bog and rog'.

im partial to 'bog and 'gean.

keep it consistent.

because it rhymes

[Pokesan]

you jive ass honkey

[AzzarTheGod]

step your southern redneck swag up

[Spyder73]

Pokesan to busy pricing Magic the Gathering cards to step game up.

[Big_Japan]

'bog and rog' has real poetry to it. I'll bet you cant even jump azzar.

[iruinedyourday]

pvp server

feel like im on crazy pills talkin to u ppl

[Oleris]

Quick history lesson from my experiences since 2014...

It's not so much about trust as it is "Do unto other as you want done unto you". I can only speak from personal experience, but BDA and Taken were both instrumental (IE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE) for the dismantling of the class rotation system because they had zerg numbers and were getting annoyed by guilds like Asgard, Omni, and Azure Guard who wanted to kill dragons under the CASUAL class rotation. Taken and BDA both refused to move up and compete with IB and TMO. Asgard decides enough of this sh!t and joins class C because there's only like 2 guilds actually competing…We start getting kills!

So Asgard decides we are going to step it up and compete at the highest level possible in Velious to start off – nToV...not going to lie, times were tough at first, we were too small and the zergs were too big. So we made a few alliances so that we could live normal lives and also get loot. Taken joins us only to desert the alliance and join the competition in hopes of crushing us and monopolizing ToV 100%. Funny thing happens though, this only galvanized the Asgard alliance and we started kicking the sh!t out Taken and Rampage on a weekly basis. So now its clear that Taken made ANOTHER bad move, and now that Rampage is gone talks of a rotation are starting again.

Seems to be a situation of a guy picking a fight, getting his sh!t pushed in, and then calling for a truce and saying the other guy is a bully.

Excuse me when I say “blow it out your ass” to any Taken member who thinks they are not the problem with the current raid scene.

you are wrong. Taken backed out because it was too much raiding originally. After a couple weeks of getting north tov down, leadership declined to partner with taken because it would split the loot too much. Taken took the correct decision by allying with rampage because it got them north loot when they would have to compete against asgard/forsaken + rampage. I don't blame taken for doing what's best for their guild. I was just sad that our VP adventures ended because of it.

[syztem]

I can't post in Raid discussion so posting here.

Its obvious in the past 6 months the GM's don't give a shit about the raid scene on P99 anymore. The current raid scene in ToV is absolutely stupid and the leaders of FA and Awakened need to just get along for once and come up with some ground rules that both parties could agree on. Cant be that hard. We all want to have fun and compete and i am sure there is a way to do that without killing your trackers each week.

My proposal:

--2 mages per wing. This makes you have to pick and prioritize your mobs

--1 mage per mob. Regardless of which wing, its the same shit as 2 mages per mob it just lowers the ammount of trackers needed. You might argue that its nice to have 2 mages so one can go piss. And I would argue just go fucking piss. If for some reason he spawns while you went pee, who cares, the same exact dragon is gonna be there next week.

--no gating mages to coth - obviously

I feel like doing this would allow for some targets to be raced for, some to be coth'd, and lower the amount of trackers needed compared to the Magewars2016 we have going now, and this is coming from someone who enjoys tracking for their guild.

Would love to hear some more ideas. The raid scene is what you want it to be, if you want it to be 20 man track teams it will be, if you want a better raid scene, you can make it happen.

wat? we get every single dragon dead, not sure how u guys manage to run into an issue on over populated server.

[Xaanka]

I can't post in Raid discussion so posting here.

Its obvious in the past 6 months the GM's don't give a shit about the raid scene on P99 anymore. The current raid scene in ToV is absolutely stupid and the leaders of FA and Awakened need to just get along for once and come up with some ground rules that both parties could agree on. Cant be that hard. We all want to have fun and compete and i am sure there is a way to do that without killing your trackers each week.

My proposal:

--2 mages per wing. This makes you have to pick and prioritize your mobs

--1 mage per mob. Regardless of which wing, its the same shit as 2 mages per mob it just lowers the ammount of trackers needed. You might argue that its nice to have 2 mages so one can go piss. And I would argue just go fucking piss. If for some reason he spawns while you went pee, who cares, the same exact dragon is gonna be there next week.

--no gating mages to coth - obviously

I feel like doing this would allow for some targets to be raced for, some to be coth'd, and lower the amount of trackers needed compared to the Magewars2016 we have going now, and this is coming from someone who enjoys tracking for their guild.

Would love to hear some more ideas. The raid scene is what you want it to be, if you want it to be 20 man track teams it will be, if you want a better raid scene, you can make it happen.

__________^holy fuck
http://i.imgur.com/yXcZcgg.gif

[jcr4990]

__________^holy fuck
http://i.imgur.com/yXcZcgg.gifConsidered it. Decided I liked playing multiplayer Everquest better.

[Xaanka]

what are you talking about? blue can have whatever pop it wants, there's no reason for players to interact with each other beyond "wts runed bone fork" in ec tunnel. half your server's afk. feels like a grave yard compared to red.

[Breaken]

Taken backed out because it was too much raiding originally.

Unforunately, Oleris, this is not the case. Taken backed out because Reep purposely trained Rampage on their.. Lady Nev?.. attempt, with an eye, and wiped them in order to get FAT the mob. This was not something we wanted to condone, especially by an officer. Fifield immediately made a post to us (being an officer of Taken at the time) and suggested we step out of ToV. We agreed.

So, what it really boils down to is.. blame Fifield... :P

[maerilith]

If the gms are away and don't care anymore.... have you tried ksing or training? also why not join the opposition anyway. without interference the pixel line will become more streamlined and efficient.

[maerilith]

what are you talking about? blue can have whatever pop it wants, there's no reason for players to interact with each other beyond "wts runed bone fork" in ec tunnel. half your server's afk. feels like a grave yard compared to red.

Also true, and it's very creepy when 100s of people act worse then the radiant AI in oblivion.

at least there the ai had different goals and would break in colourful emergent ways

[colicab]

Unforunately, Oleris, this is not the case. Taken backed out because Reep purposely trained Rampage on their.. Lady Nev?.. attempt, with an eye, and wiped them in order to get FAT the mob. This was not something we wanted to condone, especially by an officer. Fifield immediately made a post to us (being an officer of Taken at the time) and suggested we step out of ToV. We agreed.

So, what it really boils down to is.. blame Fifield... :P

Wowowowow! Truth right here folks. Then Fify leaves to join them shortly thereafter. Interesting concept.

[Jarnauga]

random one velious target per week to each non awakened/forsaken/asgard guilds.

Alliances like CSG, or asgard/forsaken count as one guild. I don't care if you're Anonymous and you got Sontalak, better luck next week.

[Ravager]

what are you talking about? blue can have whatever pop it wants, there's no reason for players to interact with each other beyond "wts runed bone fork" in ec tunnel. half your server's afk. feels like a grave yard compared to red.

What's worse, a server full of half attentive people, or a server of people (with 1/10 the population) who actively avoid each other?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Leash the damn things.

Pulling nameds across the zone is not classic, unless if by "classic" you mean "but this is what my guild was doing when we finally got to ToV during the Gates of Discord expansion."

No one can defend this practice as good gameplay or game design, and it certainly was not the intention of the design of the zone.

Weak shit, devs. Very weak. I think you all are just at this point lazy, or probably, just afraid to actually GM.

[ArumTP]

Leash the damn things.

Pulling nameds across the zone is not classic, unless if by "classic" you mean "but this is what my guild was doing when we finally got to ToV during the Gates of Discord expansion."

No one can defend this practice as good gameplay or game design, and it certainly was not the intention of the design of the zone.

Weak shit, devs. Very weak. I think you all are just at this point lazy, or probably, just afraid to actually GM.

Leash not classic.

Clearing trash only results in loosing killing the target you want. Train always to pull out single, will remain forever, so long as this condition exists.

[Man0warr]

They did root the dragons in ToV though, but it might not have been until early Luclin. ToV was intended to be a multi-day crawl.

[Xaanka]

What's worse, a server full of half attentive people, or a server of people (with 1/10 the population) who actively avoid each other?

that's not the case though. you don't even play red. the pvp element of the server forces people to interact with each other and form meaningful friendships rivalries etc -- without friends red Norrath is a rough world. when you hit 60 you quickly get to know every player's level/class and get a good idea who everyone is on the server.

[Sweettouch]

Why must every RnF thread turn into a red recruitment pitch?

[Prismaticshop]

This server is a good example of why future MMOs will always be instanced and more casualized.

P99 is free and full of social misfits, fat nerds and angsty meth heads. It Is Also non instanced

It's exactly what makes it so gud

[jcr4990]

what are you talking about? blue can have whatever pop it wants, there's no reason for players to interact with each other beyond "wts runed bone fork" in ec tunnel. half your server's afk. feels like a grave yard compared to red.I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling me or legitimately believe this insane shit :(

[Xaanka]

I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling me or legitimately believe this insane shit :(

even when the red pop was at its peak i knew or had interacted with almost every player on the server at one point or another. blue by contrast is a single player experience where the only time you interact with other players is for raids, exp groups, and trading. good fit for people w/ social anxiety or autism which is probably why you play on blue.

[ArumTP]

Red by contrast is a single player experience where the only time you interact with other players is for raids, exp groups, trading, and when people want to kill you. good fit for people w/ social anxiety or autism which is probably why you play on red.

[Xaanka]

thats the thing tho. pvp makes friendships and grudges between players actually mean something.

if you take out the EC tunnel AFK's and the people AFK camping nameds on blue you have the same pop as red with no global chat, and also most people on the server are big whiny babies who are afraid of dying in a 17 year old emulated elf game.

[ArumTP]

thats the thing tho. pvp makes friendships and grudges between players actually mean something.

if you take out the EC tunnel AFK's and the people AFK camping nameds on blue you have the same pop as red with no global chat, and also most people on the server are big whiny babies who are afraid of dying in a 17 year old emulated elf game.

Laughable to suggest an average of 800 people afk in ec and camping nameds. Nobody wants to die in this game, it is lost progress. Are you suggesting all the zone line plug pulling activity on your server is coincidental internet connectivity loss?

[fan D]

its not a debate, its not an opinion

red is more fun than blue

[fan D]

Red by contrast is a single player experience where the only time you interact with other players is for raids, exp groups, trading, and when people want to kill you. good fit for people w/ social anxiety or autism which is probably why you play on red.

??

i have genuinely been playing at the end end of blue and red for years, also been playing 18+ hours a day for years on both, i am capable of making an opinion, you are not. you are wrong with everything you say, so don't comment you dumb fuk

[ArumTP]

??

i have genuinely been playing at the end end of blue and red for years, also been playing 18+ hours a day for years on both, i am capable of making an opinion, you are not. you are wrong with everything you say, so don't comment you dumb fuk

You play this game way too much to have an objective opinion. EQ is your sad little life of course you need PVP to make it interesting.

Red is the same as blue without variance, population, and the ability to kill another. There isn't a damn thing that makes it superior. Its also pretty telling what a dumpster fire that red is, it must actively try and recruit players on every 3rd thread in the blue forums to convince players how great it is to come play there.

[Pokesan]

Laughable to suggest an average of 800 people afk in ec and camping nameds. Nobody wants to die in this game, it is lost progress. Are you suggesting all the zone line plug pulling activity on your server is coincidental internet connectivity loss?

for most plugging isn't about being afraid of dying. pvp itself is a secondary goal to getting someone to spaz out at you. plugging is a good way to frustrate someone towards that goal.

[Gimp]

??

i have genuinely been playing at the end end of blue and red for years, also been playing 18+ hours a day for years on both, i am capable of making an opinion, you are not. you are wrong with everything you say, so don't comment you dumb fuk

heroin addict
convicted felon
plays eq 18 hours a day

perfect spokesman for red imo

[Xaanka]

Laughable to suggest an average of 800 people afk in ec and camping nameds. Nobody wants to die in this game, it is lost progress. Are you suggesting all the zone line plug pulling activity on your server is coincidental internet connectivity loss?

You don't lose exp or any progress at all on red. But isn't losing progress on death a big part of the appeal of Everquest over modern MMORPG's? Keep in mind the context, we're playing one of the only games you can lose levels.

When I plug pull I always got a group of at least 3-6 friends or guildies willing to drop what they're doing on a moment's notice to rescue me & I'm one of the most disliked players on red. I can see how the server would be hard to play on if you were socially retarded and had no friends, but red has a very welcoming and tight knit community as long as you pay your dues (get to 60 without whining about pvp and quitting)

[Sweettouch]

Can we focus on fixing a toxic raiding scene on the one server before talking about red?k thanks

[Xaanka]

for most plugging isn't about being afraid of dying. pvp itself is a secondary goal to getting someone to spaz out at you. plugging is a good way to frustrate someone towards that goal.

cant say it better

[Xaanka]

Can we focus on fixing a toxic raiding scene on the one server before talking about red?k thanks

its not gonna happen. you guys are big crybabies and you have too many rules. the blue raid scene will never be classic and you will always need to be a professor of obscure forum post rules to lead raids. that's why we're talking about red, the server with a classic & more challenging raid scene with more opportunities for new guilds.

[Elmarnieh]

As long as CoTHquest exists, no guild will "dominate" NToV. Each mob is essentially a coin flip on first cast, which is gay as hell.



3/6/16

[Gimp]

?

[Elmarnieh]

Pointing out that it doesn't seem impossible for one guild to dominate ToV in the era of CoH racing.

[Gimp]

Pointing out that it doesn't seem impossible for one guild to dominate ToV in the era of CoH racing.

Vulak
LTK
Zlex
Mir
Aary
Cekenar
Jorlleag
Telk

Looks pretty even to me.

[Gimp]

And for the record, this whole "we're dominating!" "no WE'RE dominating!" shit is retarded too.

[Elmarnieh]

If member perception is domination it helps guild morale. If server perception is of domination it helps recruitment.

For these things perception is reality.

[Legday]

If member perception is domination it helps guild morale. If server perception is of domination it helps recruitment.

For these things perception is reality.

The best thing for performance is feeling like the underdog. I think anybody in either guild knows that. If you're actually dominating you get complacent, and if you're actually lagging behind for a week or two you try your ass off. Back and forth it goes.

It's all in good fun. The end game raid scene seems ridiculous to most but the competition is what makes it fun. Don't take it too seriously bros.

[Elmarnieh]

The best thing for performance is feeling like the underdog. I think anybody in either guild knows that. If you're actually dominating you get complacent, and if you're actually lagging behind for a week or two you try your ass off. Back and forth it goes.

It's all in good fun. The end game raid scene seems ridiculous to most but the competition is what makes it fun. Don't take it too seriously bros.

Competition as a crawl would be more fun. I mean they have variance to stop socking, socking still happens so why have variance?

I disagree with being the underdog, that's only true on the fight up. Once you're on the peak you have to stay there.

[Gorillas]

How do you end game raiders put up with all this shit? Seriously? How do you neckbeards find any of Blues end game content to be enjoyable. You've ground everything to shit

[Gorillas]

I think there is alot of skill involved in being 1st to engage. I think it is healthy to play fun skill based games like this one's raid scene with your cool, funny and not mad internet friends. I can't even get roast beef from the deli counter without having an anxiety attack. why go on living when every single human interaction is torture. Please God help me please God. I am not a bad person I am just weak, terribly weak

Please list your 5 greatest P99 enemies and their offenses with correct video log verification. Don't worry that the slight happened 4 years ago, act like it just happened yesterday.

[drktmplr12]

first in force

[MilanderTruewield]

Skipped 22 pages of blah after reading page 1.

I posted this before: If a guild kills Aaryonar, they have the rights to NToV until Aary respawns. Simple. You only have to FTE race 1 mob, then you can crawl as intended.

[Spyder73]

You can change the server rules all you want - Besides having a weekly bag limit there is no fix

[Papa]

yikes just yikes

people proud of "competing" via coth races

smdh

[ArumTP]

Honestly I kinda like the sound of that. Would force FA/Awakened to concentrate on the most important shit and leave more scraps to everyone else.


Uh we already are. Only TOV, dain, tormax, yelinak, Statue/Aow, CT, VP are killed. Maybe some random 3 day velk or vindi.

[fiveeauxfour]

what if the 2 drag bag limit was reinstated haha omg

[ArumTP]

So... There's like what 17 dragons in ToV? 6 in VP? So you focus "only" on the most important ~29 targets? Doesn't sound like a super concentrated target list to me pal. 29 is far exceeding any kind of reasonable weekly bag limit in most ppls eyes I'd bet.

No free lunches in EQ

VP can be reasonably cracked by the guilds that aren't doing it now, there just doesn't seem to be a desire to do it by them. They are the ones killing trak and getting all the teeth, they are the ones selling full medallion MQs for the keys. We could easily be beaten by them, it isn't a particularly fast run from TOV to VP vs a raid force already camped there.

[Rararboker]

Bag limits is meh.

More repops would be a classic fix. Then everything spawns at once and can't be had by one or two guilds.

[Kileras]

more repops, smaller windows. make the windows overlap and make it stupid for bigger guilds to try and commit to 3 different locations at once.

[Gorillas]

No free lunches in EQ

VP can be reasonably cracked by the guilds that aren't doing it now, there just doesn't seem to be a desire to do it by them. They are the ones killing trak and getting all the teeth, they are the ones selling full medallion MQs for the keys. We could easily be beaten by them, it isn't a particularly fast run from TOV to VP vs a raid force already camped there.

You're such a fucking loser

[Xaanka]

we clear all those targets & more on a 3 day schedule that comes out to maybe 12 hours of raiding a week on red. doesn't seem like too much for 1 guild to handle.

[Xaanka]

then again it makes sense you guys would complain, blue is the server for casual/less skilled players

[Man0warr]

Pretty sure Red is just straight up worse at everything, no competition and all that. Can't afford to wipe on Blue.

[Xaanka]

Pretty sure Red is just straight up worse at everything, no competition and all that. Can't afford to wipe on Blue.

i spent less hours a week to kill more dragons than you. even at pve we are better. literally gonna kill more velious raid targets tonight than your guild gets in a month.

[Xaanka]

huh anyone can roll on red and fight us for the dragons. its a pvp server. the fact of the matter is we're just really good at the game so nobody's willing to try.

wouldn't blue be the server with no real risk of interruption or pvp? and the only way you can have any sort of competition is when you wipe to pve targets (lol how does that happen)

[Xaanka]

what do you even do once you get all the pixels on blue? sit in ec tunnel hoping someone will /duel you?

[ArumTP]

Not his fault. Arum is EASILY the biggest Detoxx kool-aid drinker on this server. He just echos anything that chucklefuck tells him is true. Like 29 raid targets a week somehow being a small focused amount.

http://i.imgur.com/Nmd9mIY.gif

The easily 200 people that can clock in for any given pop in tov is already maxed out to how many this zone can accommodate. I have no desire to add the rest of the server to this zone.

If you want in, you must take it.

[Spyder73]

what do you even do once you get all the pixels on blue? sit in ec tunnel hoping someone will /duel you?

You are exposing a truth here some of us would rather pretend does not exist.

Need P99 gestapo to silence this pleb

[ArumTP]

What makes you think a bag limit would increase how many total ppl are in the zone? Once FA/Awakened hit their limit other guilds would flow in and pick up whatever (if anything) is left behind. FA/Awakened would still get the vast majority of ToV if thats what they chose to use their kills per week on. If FA/Awakened takes all of ToV then it leaves other stuff like Dain or Tormax or whatever up for somebody else. Don't see how you can arrive at the conclusion that its going to increase ToV numbers /shrug

Starting to think you're just braindead from listening to Detoxx too much.

What part of I have no desire to share with you don't you understand? You may try and best me for it, but I will not willingly give you anything. Not everyone "wins" at this game, and not everyone gets a shot at this. This game has always been like this

[Uuruk]

Oh so all that shit you said before was just "I want all the ToV pixels to myself fuck you" got it. You should have just said that to start with and left out all the other dumb bullshit you said :P

Seriously tho lets not pretend its hard to app to Forsaken/Awakened and kill shit in ToV. Get off your high horse with your "Not everyone can be a badass like me" nonsense.

Going to have to agree with this.

[ArumTP]

Oh so all that shit you said before was just "I want all the ToV pixels to myself fuck you" got it. You should have just said that to start with and left out all the other dumb bullshit you said :P

Seriously tho lets not pretend its hard to app to Forsaken/Awakened and kill shit in ToV. Get off your high horse with your "Not everyone can be a badass like me" nonsense.

Your argument is two groups get too many pixels, I want those pixels, but I don't want to do anywhere near amount of the work as those guys do.

And yes the zone would get stupid crowded as everymotherfucker would "choose" vulak as their bag target.

There is no nobility in your cause. You want to share you get yours, I work to get mine.

[Pokesan]

Your argument is two groups get too many pixels, I want those pixels, but I don't want to do anywhere near amount of the work as those guys do.

And yes the zone would get stupid crowded as everymotherfucker would "choose" vulak as their bag target.

There is no nobility in your cause. You want to share you get yours, I work to get mine.

how much u get paid

[ArumTP]

Exactly how old/white/rich/republican are you?

Idk if u know this but the server is physically incapable of supporting many more concurrent players in ToV than it already has. Zones start getting all fucky when they get over 200 ppl in them. So what are you suggesting exactly? Keeping the broken system we have in place and when other guilds eventually try to push ToV content dealing with ~300 ppl cothduck clusterfucking around ToV? Is that really what u want?

System is fine. Not everyone shows up currently. However putting a big old sign of FREE BIS LOOT would attract everyone.

[Pokesan]

System is fine. Not everyone shows up currently. However putting a big old sign of FREE BIS LOOT would attract everyone.

bolded for you

[Redi]

I can't post in Raid discussion so posting here.

Its obvious in the past 6 months the GM's don't give a shit about the raid scene on P99 anymore. The current raid scene in ToV is absolutely stupid and the leaders of FA and Awakened need to just get along for once and come up with some ground rules that both parties could agree on. Cant be that hard. We all want to have fun and compete and i am sure there is a way to do that without killing your trackers each week.

My proposal:

--2 mages per wing. This makes you have to pick and prioritize your mobs

--1 mage per mob. Regardless of which wing, its the same shit as 2 mages per mob it just lowers the ammount of trackers needed. You might argue that its nice to have 2 mages so one can go piss. And I would argue just go fucking piss. If for some reason he spawns while you went pee, who cares, the same exact dragon is gonna be there next week.

--no gating mages to coth - obviously

I feel like doing this would allow for some targets to be raced for, some to be coth'd, and lower the amount of trackers needed compared to the Magewars2016 we have going now, and this is coming from someone who enjoys tracking for their guild.

Would love to hear some more ideas. The raid scene is what you want it to be, if you want it to be 20 man track teams it will be, if you want a better raid scene, you can make it happen.

Jesus Christmas this is sad

[Troubled]

http://i.imgur.com/gdKKN1o.jpg

[fiveeauxfour]

http://i.imgur.com/gdKKN1o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gdKKN1o.jpg

[barrettdc1]

bush knocked down the twin towers on 9/11

[Pokesan]

Guess there's not much else to say if we can't even agree on reality. If you can look at P99 raid scene (especially ToV) and say to yourself "Yep no problems to fix here" then I don't even know what to say anymore. Feel like I'm trying to explain scientific fact to the insanely religious portion of my family. Or yelling at a brick wall.

I can't find the video clip but its like Jim Jefferies says


So pretend I'm walking away and condescendingly saying "Yep you're 100% right Mr. Crazyperson have a nice day!"

a surprisingly good post

young man, you might make partner someday!

[Pokesan]

I'm honored. The almighty Pokesan liked my post guys!

bolded for you

[Xaanka]

here's what i gathered from this thread

blue raid scene is broken and not fun, extreme over crowding and long lines for pixels

red raid scene has no obtuse rules, targets are left up for days and killed at our leisure, best in slot items are awarded to new players but pvp is scary oh no someone might kill my elf character

yikes sounds like u blue players got stockholm syndrome

[Xaanka]

killed 16 ntov dragons tonight on red