Forsaken is a bait and switch guild, warning to all players

[azxten]

Hello all,

I made the mistake of joining Forsaken with my wife. We accrued 500 DKP together over several months of raiding. We both made full membership. Not a single time, not even once was I able to bid on an item to use my DKP due to changes in the rules made after I joined.

Currently Forsaken is allowing people who haven't been around and are from old TMO days to become officers and interfere with guild politics. The private members forum is full of drama regarding loot council decisions, members being harassed, and so on. Anyone who is a Forsaken member knows this is true.

Do not join this guild. Its literally a scam of the highest order. I had stopped playing about a month ago when they really started changing policies. I came back and posted to the private full member forum asking various questions including, "Is Forsaken a bait and switch guild?" outlining my concerns. My point was to spur conversation and get serious questions answered that not only I but several other members in the guild were expressing since I had taken a break.

I was banned from the forum and removed from the guild. Nothing was said. I had to login and get members to mention it in guild chat before an officer would respond to me.

Thanks for listening!

Here is what I was told from officer Slydexx:

http://i.imgur.com/FBFBVcQ.png

Members and applicants beware!

[Bruno]

First.

[azxten]

Hello all,

I made the mistake of joining Forsaken with my wife. We accrued 500 DKP together over several months of raiding. We both made full membership. Not a single time, not even once was I able to bid on an item to use my DKP due to changes in the rules made after I joined.

Currently Forsaken is allowing people who haven't been around and are from old TMO days to become officers and interfere with guild politics. The private members forum is full of drama regarding loot council decisions, members being harassed, and so on. Anyone who is a Forsaken member knows this is true.

Do not join this guild. Its literally a scam of the highest order. I had stopped playing about a month ago when they really started changing policies. I came back and posted to the private full member forum asking various questions including, "Is Forsaken a bait and switch guild?" outlining my concerns. My point was to spur conversation and get serious questions answered that not only I but several other members in the guild were expressing since I had taken a break.

I was banned from the forum and removed from the guild. Nothing was said. I had to login and get members to mention it in guild chat before an officer would respond to me.

Thanks for listening!

Here is what I was told from officer Slydexx:

http://i.imgur.com/FBFBVcQ.png

Members and applicants beware!

P.S. I hope moderators will allow this thread to exist here as I consider it important information regarding what amounts to one of the largest guilds on this server being basically a scam at worst and a dictatorship at best.

[Merekai]

Yikes, removed when criticism vocalized by a member? Sorry you had that experience. This makes me realize why I really love being in AG even though some top end-game items & encounters aren't always within reach. Good people I enjoy elf simming about with is the best.

Chevey

[Herp]

Interesting.

Why wouldnt they let a full member bid on loot? What did they say? Other than they "loot council" the good items to 15% of the guild for virtually no dkp loss. Seems like a lot of Forsaken are slaving away for a select few. The 'average Joe' is that guild doesn't seem very geared compared to BDA / Taken / etc.

I keep getting tells about Umbrella/Detoxx drama causing a guild split

Can a Forsaken PR person explain OPs situation. Whatd he do wrong? Looking for an answer when I wake up in 9.5 hours please, don't let me down like my mother did.

[kaustik]

Relax kiddo. Maybe they just didn't like you. Ultimately... who cares? They didn't. Why should you? There is a good chance they are worthless. There is also a good chance that you pissed some one off. Get over it and move on with your elf sim life.

[azxten]

Why wouldnt they let a full member bid on loot? What did they say?

I could bid, but nothing was ever available. Over a period of 3 months there was nothing I could bid on. Everything either went to loot council or ended up split to Asgard since every single raid they're right there with us taking half the loot.

Other than they "loot council" the good items to 15% of the guild for virtually no dkp loss. Seems like a lot of Forsaken are slaving away for a select few.

Yep, thats how it works. Loot council gives everything good to a few people at little cost and they retain their DKP to outbid everyone on the rest of the stuff.

I keep getting tells about Umbrella/Detoxx drama causing a guild split

What happened is that Umbrella talked a bunch of shit to Giselle/Madmoiselle who selflessly updates all the Forsaken DKP information. Basically just treating her like any other member who isn't part of the inner circle, except he fucked up because everyone loves Madm and she almost solely makes the guild function. Tons of people complained, brought up the same old unanswered issues regarding loot council, etc, etc.

Detoxx was forced to demote Umbrella even though everyone wanted them out of the guild. No doubt they'll be back as an officer in a few months.

I'd love for a PR person to explain what I did wrong too. In my experience a guild full member forum is exactly the place to openly discuss issues you might have with the guild. I'm guessing Forsaken PR will claim I should have gone to an officer or something so they could sweep it under the rug.

I didn't want to talk to an officer, I wanted to talk to my guild.

[indiscriminate_hater]

"You have no idea how badly you just fucked yourself"

watch OP has a full level wizard, will fight u IRL

[indiscriminate_hater]

so... OP got kicked out of a dead guild?

yikes

[azxten]

I don't care for myself, I've been pretty much done with EQ for a long time. I'm just going to make sure everyone knows this happened so they can take it into consideration when deciding which guild they want to join.

[oupzz]

forsaken it s just a guild for lamer , they can t make a dragon without train other guild ...

[4WOFURY]

Lol, been waiting for this to come out. When you promise everyone the same riches, you're going to have a difficult time fulfilling that promise, unless you never intended to fulfill it at all.

[azxten]

Very easy contest for the whole server!

I have some Holgresh Elder Beads I was going to donate to Forsaken guild bank depending on how they handled a post I made questioning guild policies.

They kicked me out of the guild with no comment because I posted something on the private full member forum! I lost my 500DKP and full member status simply for talking too loud.

So, obviously I won't be donating anything to the guild bank.

Here is the contest, whoever talks the best shit about Forsaken gets the Holgresh Elder Beads. Contest ends in 1 week when I will decide a winner.

[azxten]

Oh and just as an aside anyone who can inflict massive damage upon Forsaken and provide evidence will be paid 500k platinum, just PM me if you have a plan to work out the details!

[Big_Japan]

bro i knew they were nerds without even joining, not being a dingus could have saved u some trouble

[Hiragawa]

Ahhh, those bad, bad peoples in that one guild that did that one thing. So nasty, very bad, much sorrow.

I'll take my beads now, thanks. And that uh, that statement inflicted a -ton- of damage upon said guild I care nothing about. So that'll be 500k to my bank roll as well. Yep. Thread closed folks, nothing more to see here.

[Bardybard]

0% 30 day attendance
7 % 60 day
16% 90 day
11% lifetime

Get 25% 30 day to bid on an item. It's not hard.
Policies change and you're never around. Half of the guild doesn't even know
who you are. Your current behavior displays why you were kicked in the first place.
Don't be going ape shit because you feel loot rules should be catered to your personal situation.

"I was being all innocent and I got kicked! So I'm offering 500k plat to
anyone to attack them and hurt them."

Good riddance.

[azxten]

0% 30 day attendance
7 % 60 day
16% 90 day
11% lifetime

Get 25% 30 day to bid on an item. It's not hard.
Policies change and you're never around. Half of the guild doesn't even know
who you are. Your current behavior displays why you were kicked in the first place.
Don't be going ape shit because you feel loot rules should be catered to your personal situation.

"I was being all innocent and I got kicked! So I'm offering 500k plat to
anyone to attack them and hurt them."

Good riddance.

I had 40% 30 day attendance when I stopped showing up due to the policy changes involving loot council and so on. You know, the same policies that the private full member forum is full of people complaining about? The one I was removed for bringing up?

Remember when Detoxx said, "I'm starting this thread to allow people to discuss the new loot council changes since there have been a lot of complaints" and then after it was like 10 pages long of complaints with no real answers from any officers he came back in saying, "Ok we talked about it enough, the decision is final" and locked the thread?

You know about that, right?

What the fuck are you doing posting here anyway Bardybard? Don't you know its against guild rules?

[Samoht]

Never. Ever. Trust. Dumbrella.

[Bruno]

bro i knew they were nerds without even joining, not being a dingus could have saved u some trouble

Yea, what bj said. It's been common knowledge for many years now. All the warning signs were there for everyone. You really don't have anyone to blame but yourself, and maybe your wife.

[eisley]

is this dude gonna go full greengrocer

[Pheer]

No need to talk shit about forsaken, detoxx does a good enough job making them look bad himself.

http://i.imgur.com/S55MdC8.png

[Sweettouch]

Can't say I'm shocked. Hope you find a better raiding guild

[Kileras]

over several months in guild with 500+ DKP and never allowed to spend it? that can't be right. there must be more to the story.

[azxten]

OP, post a screenie of the post you made on the forsaken site so we can see if you were being reasonable or a giant fgt before we start bashing

Believe me I would if I could, I was banned from forums and kicked from guild by Slydexx.

If Forsaken wants to quote my post here I'd welcome it, but I know they already deleted it from the members forum.

While they're at it they can post all the other posts in there complaining about harassment, loot council, dicatatorship leader/officers, and so on.

[azxten]

Nope, thats the story. Basically between splitting everything with Asgard and all the good stuff going to loot council there is little left except trash. I didn't even get to bid on any trash because my main is an INT caster where drops are less common. I'm sure I got unlucky in some sense but that is factual. Months of work, I had 40% attendance at my peak, and not once was I even eligible to put a bid in on an item.

The private member forum had tons of complaints about loot council. Detoxx made a thread saying, "Lets talk about it, get all your concerns out there" and tons of posts were made. No questions were answered. Then Detoxx said "Ok glad we got that resolved, the policy is final" and locked the thread.

Anyone in Forsaken can confirm this is true, but they won't cause they're scared. Everyone in Forsaken lives in fear of upsetting the no life core of the guild that will unfairly harass them.

I'm a man of integrity who isn't afraid to call assholes out even when I know I'll lose pixels and thats exactly what happened.

[beyondinfin]

Guilds ruin EQ.

[Hiragawa]

I think you should just stop playing tbh. You'd be a lot happier. There are so many people completely obsessed with pixels on this server that they're willing to fuck over whomever for them, and the favoritism is rampant. What other MMOs have you played and enjoyed? I've got some suggestions for servers.

^ That.

I'm not sure many people here realize this is a game and it's meant to be fun. I'm sorry shitty things happened to you, but putting in all the effort to offer a reward to talk shit out people? I just... I dunno man. I think my time would be better spent firing up some crazy "Go nuts and kill everything" game and going ballistic for a bit. Dying Light is getting an update in a few days. LOTS of Zombies to kill!

[Nixtar]

Never join a guild with a loot council unless you live the game. You will always be seen as filler. Disclaimer: Yes, there are exceptions to the rule.

[azxten]

Never join a guild with a loot council unless you live the game. You will always be seen as filler. Disclaimer: Yes, there are exceptions to the rule.

Haha, yeah.. thats the crux of the issue. See I joined when there wasn't going to be a real loot council. They baited and switched the membership telling everyone there would be no loot council and now its very much a part of policy.

Everyone in Forsaken pretty much hates the loot council and knows its a giant scam or at least incredibly manipulated. Yet the officers don't give a shit that all the members have been demanding the loot council not be so oppressive and omnipresent for the best loot.

As soon as Forsaken started implementing their bait and switch policies I just stopped playing so much. Gradually stopping all together. Then I check forums occasionally.

I saw that the drama in the private forum was reaching a fever pitch so I decided to add my opinion too. Guess they were mad about the timing, and I'm mad about wasting my time on a bait and switch scam by a bunch of fraudsters.

[azxten]

I think you should just stop playing tbh. You'd be a lot happier.

Thats the plan. I've been playing here since 2010 as you can see by my join date. The game has gotten stale. We did Velious already, its done except for ST which I don't give a shit about.

Just going to do my best to take Forsaken down a peg as I go out. Who knows though, maybe I'll join the guild that Forsaken is about to split into when the members leave. Maybe they won't split but I'll have added enough pressure along with all the other drama no one here even knows about to cause them to change policies for those people who do still want to play here.

[bktroost]

I had 40% 30 day attendance when I stopped showing up due to the policy changes involving loot council and so on. You know, the same policies that the private full member forum is full of people complaining about? The one I was removed for bringing up?

Remember when Detoxx said, "I'm starting this thread to allow people to discuss the new loot council changes since there have been a lot of complaints" and then after it was like 10 pages long of complaints with no real answers from any officers he came back in saying, "Ok we talked about it enough, the decision is final" and locked the thread?

You know about that, right?

What the fuck are you doing posting here anyway Bardybard? Don't you know its against guild rules?


Umm, are you a good person? Are you enjoyable to hang around with? Why are none of those things being discussed.

Wow, I'm really sorry that Eq has been that for you.

You some consider apping elsewhere. What are your playtime hours, I can point you in the right direction.

[disenchant]

Seems like your statements are redundant, I know I've never met a person in foreskin that was kind, but aren't they number 1 raiding guild on the server (just under rampage)?
I would never app to that guild in my life because I'd never get to spend my DKP, I've been with guilds like them in the past on live and live progression servers. Never seemed right to me to not be able to spend your dkp even if you're not a "full member". if you have only 50 dkp then why shouldn't you bid on that item that only you and maybe 1 or 2 others can use, so they get it for 8 dkp when you just bid 25? that's 25 hours of your eq time you're spending but they won't let you. It's lame, their guild is lame, and they're idiots.

[Lojik]

Don't know anything about the inner workings of forsaken, but I mean they have the reputation of a telemarketing/credit card company:
"You're already approved!"
"Great low interest rates!"
"Dkp packages available"
"Free rollover minutes! "
"Join in the next ten minutes and get a sleepers let FREE"

Just remember to read that small print lol. Getting 25% attendance for 30 days just to bid (if an items even up for bid? ) heck i play a fair amount for Ag now my 30 day% is like 20% due to work conflicts.

OP do you feel you've been...forsaken?

[Lojik]

"Join in the next ten minutes and get a sleepers key FREE"

[Pheer]

MFW people are surprised that a guild that mass recruits at OT boat and WL rings is just using them as warm bodies to get their core/clique of ex-tmo members high end loot.

http://i.imgur.com/KRfQGJe.png

[disenchant]

I would love to see the forum posts...
they have minimal grammar so maybe it wouldn't be that entertaining.

[disenchant]

0% 30 day attendance
7 % 60 day
16% 90 day
11% lifetime

Get 25% 30 day to bid on an item. It's not hard.
Policies change and you're never around. Half of the guild doesn't even know
who you are. Your current behavior displays why you were kicked in the first place.
Don't be going ape shit because you feel loot rules should be catered to your personal situation.

"I was being all innocent and I got kicked! So I'm offering 500k plat to
anyone to attack them and hurt them."

Good riddance.

these numbers state you only played about 16 days out of 90, there's no way that's correct... seriously, to this I LOL!

[kagrobb]

The best revenge is to live well and sadly since we are all in a 15 year old frozen elf sim that means you can only live well by being elsewhere and living large ... there are other options than Foreskin or Assguard.

Show us on the Bear where Detuxx likes you to touch him

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/ideas/images/b/b1/Pedobear.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/296?cb=20120831161000

[bktroost]

And even if he did...? Who cares? Enjoy EQ.

[Hiragawa]

That game is what Dead Island wants to be when it grows up. God damn.

Same people. My husband bought it for him last year, and after he played it for like an hour, I realized it was just Dead Island on steroids with free running and quickly put 60 hours in before he'd finished the tutorial in his file.

Yeah...

[Hiragawa]

PLEASE don't drop any spoilers.

Wouldn't dare. Play the hell out of it. Bloody fantastic game that will only wind up better with the new stuff coming out.

[Zugsmash]

Thats the plan. I've been playing here since 2010 as you can see by my join date. The game has gotten stale. We did Velious already, its done except for ST which I don't give a shit about.

Just going to do my best to take Forsaken down a peg as I go out. Who knows though, maybe I'll join the guild that Forsaken is about to split into when the members leave. Maybe they won't split but I'll have added enough pressure along with all the other drama no one here even knows about to cause them to change policies for those people who do still want to play here.

The GreenGrocer Syndrome is affecting this guy.

[azxten]

The GreenGrocer Syndrome is affecting this guy.

Meh, we'll see...

No Forsaken member is going to post here other than officers or PR shills for the guild since its against policy. They all know the guild is a steaming pile of shit though and I've confirmed this with tons of members this morning.

We... will.. see.

[Valura]

they dont even remember who they recruit. i joined cuz dottedup asked if i wanted to slay dragons and then i left cause i felt like it. then i was asked (by him) to join again and then left cause i felt like it

the end

[azxten]

they dont even remember who they recruit. i joined cuz dottedup asked if i wanted to slay dragons and then i left cause i felt like it. then i was asked (by him) to join again and then left cause i felt like it

the end

Thats the level of guild leadership that forces them to take 90% of the loot for all their hard work.

[ridiculousmoose]

No one is really surprised... forceful entry people were some of the most brain damaged trash the server has ever had, and they are the core of your guild now. Duh?

[shummit]

you must be a wow player who joined everquest after watching a stream or something, because no one in their right mind would do what you're doing, you legit just blacklisted yourself to other raid guilds, you're acting so much immature acting like an 8 year old, spamming shout in EC, and multiple posts on the forums, why would anyone want to invite you into their guild after seeing this? you're too much drama, you're acting like you're an asset or something.. great way to destroy an 60 wizzy, how long did it take you to level that boring ass wizard 1-60, now you gotta re-create another wizzy.. or pay for some power-leveling.. stop acting like a fool, no one will want to invest in you.

[disenchant]

Thats the level of guild leadership that forces them to take 90% of the loot for all their hard work.

You're so mad about these guys, so upset you'll make empty promises you (and pretty much everyone here) knows you can't fulfill, what makes you better than them? HA, I bet they ask you to join in a few months. Then you can get butt hurt when they kick you again. I doubt your slander is helping your cause, you can't even put them down with style... go click your beads for a while and feel good about your "500k" /laugh

[azxten]

I think it took me about a week to get it to 60.

It doesn't really matter though because I've been bored playing here for a long time. I came to check out Velious, did it, done.

Honestly if Forsaken hadn't changed their loot policies to be so obviously bullshit I would have already left and not been back. My new game here is to fuck with Forsaken members whenever I can for supporting the guild.

[shummit]

I think it took me about a week to get it to 60.

It doesn't really matter though because I've been bored playing here for a long time. I came to check out Velious, did it, done.

Honestly if Forsaken hadn't changed their loot policies to be so obviously bullshit I would have already left and not been back. My new game here is to fuck with Forsaken members whenever I can for supporting the guild.



since you quit, can i have your stuff?

[azxten]

since you quit, can i have your stuff?

Probably. I was going to post an event giving away about 12 characters worth of gear but I'm not completely decided yet.

I was also thinking of trying to get an exception from the admins to give away my accounts as well. Maybe this doesn't count as RMT anyway and I can just post up the creds and see who gets it first.

I'll make a decision soon and try to give stuff away on Sunday otherwise it'll be next weekend if I do.

[shummit]

why not just RMT you already quit dude, you're so bored of everquest, you spend your times in ec spamming your lame shit

[Hiragawa]

I think it took me about a week to get it to 60.

It doesn't really matter though because I've been bored playing here for a long time. I came to check out Velious, did it, done.

Honestly if Forsaken hadn't changed their loot policies to be so obviously bullshit I would have already left and not been back. My new game here is to fuck with Forsaken members whenever I can for supporting the guild.

Meh, not really worth your time in my opinion. Shrug it off, kiss your wife, and move on to killing different things elsewhere. No sense in wasting your time trying to make trouble for people who probably don't care either way.

But that's my thoughts. I say we all just take a step back and kill zombies for awhile. /shrug

[shummit]

at least you're done with everquest, you can go workout and look good for the summer!

[Tupakk]

If you need to unload your Wiz gear Dial a Port will gladly take your pixels. They will go to good use, as well as that 500k. ��

[disenchant]

I think it took me about a week to get it to 60.

It doesn't really matter though because I've been bored playing here for a long time. I came to check out Velious, did it, done.

Honestly if Forsaken hadn't changed their loot policies to be so obviously bullshit I would have already left and not been back. My new game here is to fuck with Forsaken members whenever I can for supporting the guild.

You're such a liar, seriously...

[azxten]

Meh, not really worth your time in my opinion. Shrug it off, kiss your wife, and move on to killing different things elsewhere. No sense in wasting your time trying to make trouble for people who probably don't care either way.

But that's my thoughts. I say we all just take a step back and kill zombies for awhile. /shrug

I tried to play Dying Light but it has this bug on Linux for me where the multiplayer doesn't work. Killed my desire to play very far.

[azxten]

You're such a liar, seriously...

I have several level 60 characters. It takes about 4 days to PL to 45 and 2 days to get to 60 in Chardok for any class you want.

[azxten]

If you need to unload your Wiz gear Dial a Port will gladly take your pixels. They will go to good use, as well as that 500k. ��

I've already been informed Dial a Port is actually run by a Forsaken member. I have no proof of this but that is what someone claimed to have proof of and was asking me to buy it from them.

[Hiragawa]

I tried to play Dying Light but it has this bug on Linux for me where the multiplayer doesn't work. Killed my desire to play very far.

Ugh, now that sucks. Still well worth it single player. Hopefully the bug gets sorted out for you with the update on Tuesday. Multiplayer is super fun, especially the Zombie mode.

Won't talk anything of it, spoilers and what not. But it's certainly worth playing in any form you can muster.

[eisley]

never go full greengrocer

[Bruno]

I've already been informed Dial a Port is actually run by a Forsaken member. I have no proof of this but that is what someone claimed to have proof of and was asking me to buy it from them.

Please provide proof of this person trying to solicit moneys for proof.

[Pokesan]

Glad you're free of the cult OP, Forsaken full of delusional sadbrains dudes

[ArumTP]

0% 30 day attendance
7 % 60 day
16% 90 day
11% lifetime

Get 25% 30 day to bid on an item. It's not hard.
Policies change and you're never around. Half of the guild doesn't even know
who you are. Your current behavior displays why you were kicked in the first place.
Don't be going ape shit because you feel loot rules should be catered to your personal situation.

"I was being all innocent and I got kicked! So I'm offering 500k plat to
anyone to attack them and hurt them."

Good riddance.

If these RA numbers are believed this is why you get no loot, you dont show up to raid.

[Raev]

Forsaken had a meeting for Rampage members this week, and while I didn't attend apparently the theme was 'Lets kick our apps/Asgard to the curb and merge with as much of Rampage as possible'. Toggin posted a screenshot of Dottedup trying to recruit him; in it Dottedup says 'No problem if you hate Detoxx, so does half our guild'. Which isn't surprising because Dottedup has been sitting at WL circle for the past 3 months recruiting anyone with a pulse.

If these people didn't set off your used car salesman/late night infomercial bullshit filter, I don't know what to tell you.

[Prismaticshop]

Rampage is dead, Forsaken is #1, they trim the fat, seems legit.

Also RnF full of butthurt tramps

Shits classic

[Oleris]

I've already been informed Dial a Port is actually run by a Forsaken member. I have no proof of this but that is what someone claimed to have proof of and was asking me to buy it from them.

wrong tupak

[Morgander]

-You must have a 25% or higher 30-day raid attendance to bid on, or put in for items.

This is a quote of information taken directly from the Forsaken master policy page. The reason you could not bid on drops was because your raid attendance dipped below 25%.

This is a rule that has been instated since day one.

Ignition class 14 Wizard 305.0 19.0 0.0 324.0 12.27.15 0% (0/129) 7% (18/264) 16% (66/402) 11% (91/858)

This is also taken from your thread on the Forsaken forums. This is your accumulated attendance. The first number (0% (0/129) is your 30-day attendance, then 60, then 90, then all-time (11% (91-858)).

[fiveeauxfour]

Forsaken had a meeting for Rampage members this week, and while I didn't attend apparently the theme was 'Lets kick our apps/Asgard to the curb and merge with as much of Rampage as possible'. Toggin posted a screenshot of Dottedup trying to recruit him; in it Dottedup says 'No problem if you hate Detoxx, so does half our guild'. Which isn't surprising because Dottedup has been sitting at WL circle for the past 3 months recruiting anyone with a pulse.

If these people didn't set off your used car salesman/late night infomercial bullshit filter, I don't know what to tell you.


Kick Asgard to the curb, heh
It's not like Asgard resurrected Forsaken or anything...
I remember when Rampage laughed Forsaken off the server and they weren't getting shit when Forsaken came crawling back to Asgard for another attempt at an alliance. If it wasnt for some of the strats by some of the Asgaridans or the Asgardian cleric chain, our alliance would have failed permanently.

These prideful pricks, besides Detoxx, are too selfish to acknowledge that Asgard plays an important role in the alliance. Rather than a coming together of equals, there is a culture of us and them, of one party going for a loot grab, a power grab.

Hey, you gotta keep your options open, I get it. I really do. Those Rampage members who we despise and "kicked off the server" would be a great way to replace that pesky guild Asgard that takes 1/2 the loot.

Tread carefully, my friends.

[Bardybard]

The post is gone now, but from what I remember, there were massive walls of text complaining about not getting any loot. There are like 12 items on loot council (we've been removing items since velious launch to normal bidding), and everything else is DKP bid. This was explicit in a post by Detoxx when we formed the guild, but I guess he didn't read that part. He goes on to being confused as to why Asgard is raiding with us and why they get any loot. This should show just how much he's been around for the last few months.

All in all, it wasn't that big of a deal. Our guild is not a dictatorship and we have debates or arguments all the time, but we all still get along and raid together afterward. Once this guy started taking things personal, talking shit about the leadership, and talking shit about the guild everywhere, I believe Slydexx laid down the law. His actions after being kicked should be apparent as to the kind of person he is.

A normal, healthy person would say fuck that guild, and carry on with their lives. We often get a laugh out of many of the "fuck forsaken" threads in here, but this one is just pathetic. Confirmed, Ignition has gone full green grocer.

[Jarnauga]

You mean Forsaken mass recruited every 50+ on the server with promise of loot to everyone and couldn't award rings of destruction to every members of their 200+ roster ?

http://i.imgur.com/7noFPr8.png

[Pokesan]

500 DKP but not allowed to spend it

How much raiding is 500 DKP?

[Hoozi]

This is a quote of information taken directly from the Forsaken master policy page. The reason you could not bid on drops was because your raid attendance dipped below 25%.

This is a rule that has been instated since day one.



This is also taken from your thread on the Forsaken forums. This is your accumulated attendance. The first number (0% (0/129) is your 30-day attendance, then 60, then 90, then all-time (11% (91-858)).



/threads

How many threads do you need about this, OP? You sound like an entitled millennial.

[Pokesan]

*in TMO officer voice*

"Please read this multiple paragraph explanation of why it makes perfect sense that you cannot spend any of your 500 DKP"

[Pokesan]

FTFY m8

lol

[Troxx]

Forsaken has been the sopping taint of this server since its inception.

[Evia]

It's funny this post is being made the day after I myself also decided Forsaken wasnt for me and removed myself from the guild. I want to say first of all that as a whole Forsaken was great to me in my brief time with them. Last night though I attended my first guild meeting in TS3 and learned they utilize a loot council and DKP system and I immediately got a weird/bad feeling about it. Something just didn't add up to me and the explanations given by the leadership didn't make any sense. Saying that they need loot council on certain items in order to be sure people who help the guild by tracking, handling dkp, and other guild helping related tasks, get rewarded accordingly for the extra effort. In my opinion DKP does that naturally and so the council is not needed.

Like I said members of the guild were great to me but after listening to leadership give all these members some run around reason on why they utilize loot council I couldn't help but feel as though the majority of the guild was getting the shaft.

After reading OPs post it confirms the suspicion I was feeling. I've always been a guy who follows his gut and after sitting on that meeting last night I definitely felt like something was off and I just had to follow that intuition.

I honestly wish Forsaken the best and am thankful for the kindness they showed me. A few members are excellent people and I enjoyed my time with them. It's the leadership that unfortunately just gave me some bad/dishonest vibes. I hope I'm mistaken for the sake of the other members but I feel like the majority of the guild is getting swindled.

[EvilQuest]

sounds like an absolute trash heap

[Uuruk]

People still play on this box?????

[Stormfists]

1. /w all 55 60 cleric.
2. "Hey we have no entry requirements btw".
3. Profit.

[lonmoer]

It seems like a lot of guilds do this. I joined Azure Guard and earned a lot of DKP and was saving it up for some good items. In their bid system you can only make a max DKP bid of 200 or so and by golly gosh darn it every time i max bid the the loot council awarded the items to officers. How convenient.

[Morgander]

I attended my first guild meeting in TS3 and learned they utilize a loot council and DKP system and I immediately got a weird/bad feeling about it. Something just didn't add up to me and the explanations given by the leadership didn't make any sense. Saying that they need loot council on certain items in order to be sure people who help the guild by tracking, handling dkp, and other guild helping related tasks, get rewarded accordingly for the extra effort. In my opinion DKP does that naturally and so the council is not needed.

Like I said members of the guild were great to me but after listening to leadership give all these members some run around reason on why they utilize loot council I couldn't help but feel as though the majority of the guild was getting the shaft.

After reading OPs post it confirms the suspicion I was feeling. I've always been a guy who follows his gut and after sitting on that meeting last night I definitely felt like something was off and I just had to follow that intuition.

I honestly wish Forsaken the best and am thankful for the kindness they showed me. A few members are excellent people and I enjoyed my time with them. It's the leadership that unfortunately just gave me some bad/dishonest vibes. I hope I'm mistaken for the sake of the other members but I feel like the majority of the guild is getting swindled.

Forsaken's loot system is completely transparent.

All members and applicants have full access to view all DKP standings, all attendance standings, all tracking standings, every item ever awarded to any member, and for what DKP amount. This information is archived and dated, with additional details to top it all off.

If any member or applicant ever has a question regarding loot, we of the officer core are more than willing to detail everything and anything.

It's impossible to hide anything or to manipulate our system. People have logs of who was awarded what, and when. Our guild policy is that all members are to keep logs running at all times. Every single person in this guild is at all times, free to check all records pertaining to loot, accrued DKP, and item awarding.

Forsaken will not be the guild for everyone, but Forsaken's loot system is incredibly straight-forward, consistent, and transparent.

[Pokesan]

What's straight forward about being awarded DKP but not being allowed to spend it?

[Morgander]

Oh and just as an aside anyone who can inflict massive damage upon Forsaken and provide evidence will be paid 500k platinum, just PM me if you have a plan to work out the details!

Please direct your attention to the first post that I made in reply to this thread here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2185028&posted=1#post2185028

Sir, with all due respect, your raid attendance was too low to bid, as per a policy set since the creation of Forsaken. I do not know what more I can say on the issue. Attempts at slander without proof is foolish. We care a great deal about the membership of our guild. If anybody has a question pertaining to Forsaken, just ask us!

[Morgander]

they dont even remember who they recruit. i joined cuz dottedup asked if i wanted to slay dragons and then i left cause i felt like it. then i was asked (by him) to join again and then left cause i felt like it

the end

Valura - Wizard - Level 59 (as of recruit date) - Tagged 12/31/2015 - Application End Date: 1/30/16 - Vote End Date: 2/6/2016 - Application Submission: Yes - Orientation: No - Invite Log: Yes - Forum Access: Yes - DKP Account Access: Yes - Twitter Access: No - Requirements Completed: No - Raid Attendance: 0% (last calculation 1/23).

[Rararboker]

I joined this guild in like sept of 2015? Maybe august. I got VP and velious loot within my first few months. Sounds like there is more to this story.

[Pokesan]

I don't think Valura was saying you don't keep records but rather that you spam invite so many people that you don't remember who's been in your guild.

[Morgander]

What's straight forward about being awarded DKP but not being allowed to spend it?

I cannot speak for the minors here, but as adults, it is our responsibility to ensure that we have read, understood, and accepted the rules for the organizations of which we apply ourselves to. This rule is clear as day, outlined in a permanent policy page located in an easy to find location on our forums under the heading, "Loot Policy". Failure to read or accept these policies are not the responsibility of anyone but those individuals with which are making decisions for themselves.

Anyone who does not like a policy is open to discuss said policy openly with officers. This does not guarantee the change or removal of said policy, but at the end of the day, individuals that reject said policies, should not have applied for membership, or should have respectfully withdrawn said application.

There's nothing wrong with that.

[Pokesan]

The policy being written down has no bearing on the deceptive nature of awarding worthless DKP to less hardcore players.

Imagine being paid in company scrip you cannot buy anything with.

[Savok]

It seems like a lot of guilds do this. I joined Azure Guard and earned a lot of DKP and was saving it up for some good items. In their bid system you can only make a max DKP bid of 200 or so and by golly gosh darn it every time i max bid the the loot council awarded the items to officers. How convenient.

It's actually 250 and if there is a tie it goes by total DKP to spend. Most Officers are the core of the guild and go to a lot of raids, therefore have more DKP to spend.

(This comes from a member who turns up to raids as and when his schedule will allow and not by the former members already spoken of above)

[Morgander]

Haha, yeah.. thats the crux of the issue. See I joined when there wasn't going to be a real loot council. They baited and switched the membership telling everyone there would be no loot council and now its very much a part of policy.

Ignition, you applied on 6/19/2015, and were made full member 11/19/2015. We also gave special consideration for your wife, who did not have the attendance to actually go up for vote as per our rules, because we wanted to make an exception for her so the two of you did not have to play the game under separate guilds.

Our policy page is transparent. Every change on it is dated explicitly. Our loot council change was implemented on 10/21/2015, and was clearly outlined in both our primary policy page, and in a full guild meeting.

This is also irregardless. You did not hold the required raid attendance to bid on loot. According to my database, you held 22% attendance at the point of your making full member (again, an exception we made for you, as our requirement is in fact, 25%).

I still do not understand all this animosity. You're upset because you were removed from the guild. You really should let it go.

[mjbcb0717]

Here's what you do man...this will inflict some damage on them and really piss em off along the way

I call this the LEROYYYYY JENKINS effect

So here's what you do bro..make a class with a pet ok now work on leveling up this toon (while you listen to eye of the tiger) this will fuel your rage as it plays. Now lvl up that room to 60 ! Fast as hell you know NOW get in cohorts with whoresaken make friends with them just tolerate it for a few weeks or whenever you raid...Here's were the plan comes into action RIGHT as they are pulling make sure you have another mob targeted good distance away so it will pull adds...

You send that some beetch pet to attack said mob it will Train The raid they will have no idea what happen they will just be scratching their vaginal pubes wondering were these adds comith from just continue to do this every raid destroy the moral and they will feel like they suck even worse then before and quit.

best of luck I would make a necro so you can fd and watch em get butt pumped

[Morgander]

The policy being written down has no bearing on the deceptive nature of awarding worthless DKP to less hardcore players.

Imagine being paid in company scrip you cannot buy anything with.

OK I understand what you're getting at here. You're under the assumption that DKP is awarded to "lower tier" members, while the "upper tier" members get loot council.

Let me clear the air.

Our system is a very simple hybrid system. We all accrue DKP for every raid attended, every SoulFire quest completed, and every hour of tracking completed. Virtually all items are DKP bid items. So long as you are a full member main and have at least 25% raid attendance, either 30-day or collectively, you are welcome to bid any DKP amount. It is a silent bid, and the highest bidder wins the item, unquestionably.

Loot council is reserved for a small number of items, all of which are listed on an easy to locate spreadsheet posted for all members and applicants to view.

This list includes loot from Vulak, Tunare, and AoW, epic drops, the heads from Tormax, Dain, and Yelinak, and a few odds and ends items off of mobs like the new, updated Cazic Thule.

In total, the vast majority of items are bid items, and not loot council. Every single other item is a DKP bid item.

[azxten]

Please direct your attention to the first post that I made in reply to this thread here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2185028&posted=1#post2185028

Sir, with all due respect, your raid attendance was too low to bid, as per a policy set since the creation of Forsaken. I do not know what more I can say on the issue. Attempts at slander without proof is foolish. We care a great deal about the membership of our guild. If anybody has a question pertaining to Forsaken, just ask us!

False. I had 40% raid attendance before I stopped playing so much. I also posted in our AFK thread per policy.

Its cute though thats how you guys are going to try to frame this. "Well see, you left at 40% attendance and followed AFK thread policy but... since you left you had no attendance to bid and thats why you couldn't bid."

No, I left first due to not being able to bid, it wasn't weeks later when I came back to discuss why I was upset that this claim is being made I had no attendance to bid. I wasn't trying to bid then.

Also, this wasn't really about the DKP only. My post that I was kicked out of the guild for was about guild leadership not doing their jobs, harassment of members, and similar things.

[Morgander]

I don't think Valura was saying you don't keep records but rather that you spam invite so many people that you don't remember who's been in your guild.

How one recruiter goes about with his own personal record keeping is not representative of the entire guild. Contrary to this systematic view, Forsaken has high standards. Of our current applicant base for example, less than 10% of them currently hold our raid requirements standards.

Recruitment practices have changed, and prior practices were meant to increase a pool with which we could best scrutinize those most interested (and able) to be a part of a high-level raiding guild.

[Morgander]

False. I had 40% raid attendance before I stopped playing so much. I also posted in our AFK thread per policy.

Its cute though thats how you guys are going to try to frame this. "Well see, you left at 40% attendance and followed AFK thread policy but... since you left you had no attendance to bid and thats why you couldn't bid."

No, I left first due to not being able to bid, it wasn't weeks later when I came back to discuss why I was upset that this claim is being made I had no attendance to bid. I wasn't trying to bid then.

Also, this wasn't really about the DKP only. My post that I was kicked out of the guild for was about guild leadership not doing their jobs, harassment of members, and similar things.

If you have evidence to show even a single case of which you wanted to go in on an item and had the attendance and were not allowed, I will be more than happy to review it. There is no such case, because that is, and has never been, our policy.

[Tann]

to Forsaken members:

http://i.imgur.com/h6mJBtz.jpg

I'll take the beads now thanks!

[disenchant]

... you are welcome to bid any DKP amount. It is a silent bid, and the highest bidder wins the item, unquestionably.



Just curious why this method, seems like an odd way to auction via DKP. As far back as I can remember the designated officer starts off with a low value in guild chat and members then bid accordingly.

[Raev]

OH YEAH? WELL I HAD SEX WITH YOUR WIFE

[azxten]

Morgander you sure wrote a whole lot of nothing there.

Since you want to outline the whole history, here it is.

Dottedup/Ikingl recruited me. I was told I could have multiple mains. I was told I could AFK as needed if I posted in the AFK thread. I was told loot council would not be significant. I was told my wife would make full member with me as family even thought she couldn't play often.

So, I accepted, I went on the vacation I already told you guys I was going on. I bought a house. I travelled half the country. I came back after about a month and then started raiding again and got my attendance up to around 25%.

I know for a fact my attendance was higher than 25% when I made full member from my perspective. How do I know that? Because I remember being well beyond eligible when I finally asked Glynna if I was going up for vote or not. At that point I was informed that I had made full member a couple weeks ago.

So, somehow I became full member without the guild officers even mentioning it to me. GREAT LEADERSHIP!!!!

Ok, then after that I waited for a chance to spend my DKP. I waited, and waited, and waited. Not a single item dropped that went to DKP bid that I could use.

That wasn't a big deal though. The bigger deal was behaviour like, as you say, the loot policy being changed months after I joined and was told a story of how the guild would be.

Detoxx makes a thread asking for member input, ignores all of it, locks thread and says thanks and please never bring this up again.

Umbrella makes officer and harasses Madm. Eatery harasses me.

Guild leadership spends every raid crying about everyone else not being ready, or talking in TS, or not mobilizing, or whatever else.. yet no one ever gets in trouble. Nothing is ever done but constant whining on behalf of our supposed guild leadership that runs the guild like a dictatorship regarding loot but as if its a daycare for retarded children when it comes to the social atmosphere.

Asgard is splitting our loot in half due to the alliance limiting available loot.

I'm basically bored at this point. I have 40% attendance, 500 DKP between me and my wife, and nothing to bid on while I watch loot council items awarded to people who already have VP items they're replacing. Thats "best for the guild"?

I post in the AFK thread saying I'll be leaving for awhile per policy. At this I had around 30% attendance I think.

I come back, notice all the drama on forums with several other members complaning about loot council, harassment, and other things. So I make my post to say what has been bothering me and see if Forsaken cares enough about me wanting to be part of the guild after making full membership to have a civil discussion.

Nope. Instead I get kicked by Slydexx, no other officer in the guild has any idea why I'm kicked and has still not told me to this moment, and all because I dared post in the private forum asking questions and saying why I was upset and not wanting to play lately.

Our loot council change was implemented on 10/21/2015, and was clearly outlined in both our primary policy page, and in a full guild meeting.

You're argument is that 4 months after I applied you changed the policy, told the whole guild, and when everyone complained in the thread Detoxx started he locked it and told everyone to shut up and the policy is final? Thats your great image of how fair Forsaken is? Sure, you stated clearly that you were changing policy to fuck everyone over and do exactly what you said you wouldn't, that doesn't mean anyone was happy about it or accepted it.

You're desperately trying to make this about loot though and we both know its not about loot. That is what I can tell other players here that will make the reconsider joining your scam guild.

I was kicked for speaking truth to power. I talked about the loot council bullshit, about harassment, about bad leadership, about old TMO people popping up into officer positions, and all the other drama that everyone is upset about.

Why is it that my first post was about loot, Slydexx responded, and I said "I'll actually say everything that has been upsetting me lately to get it all out there" and then I got kicked after that?

Why kick me at all if its just because I didn't have attendance to bid on loot? I certainly didn't kick myself. So is complaining as a full member worthy of being kicked?

You do admit that, right? That forsaken kicks full members who put in months of time and posted in AFK thread because they came back and tried to talk about why they were upset and didn't want to play anymore?

[disenchant]

Well I'm not about to defend foreskin but if you were with them then why didn't you get your facts straight right then and there, why wait weeks and then bring it up.

[Maner]

What's straight forward about being awarded DKP but not being allowed to spend it?

Lol, this ass hat had 11% life time attendance, ~90 raids out of 900 and he thinks he deserves something for it? His 30 day raid attendance was 0%. Perhaps he should attend a raid if he wants to spend dkp at them.

[Maner]

Morgander you sure wrote a whole lot of nothing there.

Since you want to outline the whole history, here it is.

Dottedup/Ikingl recruited me. I was told I could have multiple mains. I was told I could AFK as needed if I posted in the AFK thread. I was told loot council would not be significant. I was told my wife would make full member with me as family even thought she couldn't play often.

So, I accepted, I went on the vacation I already told you guys I was going on. I bought a house. I travelled half the country. I came back after about a month and then started raiding again and got my attendance up to around 25%.

I know for a fact my attendance was higher than 25% when I made full member from my perspective. How do I know that? Because I remember being well beyond eligible when I finally asked Glynna if I was going up for vote or not. At that point I was informed that I had made full member a couple weeks ago.

So, somehow I became full member without the guild officers even mentioning it to me. GREAT LEADERSHIP!!!!

Ok, then after that I waited for a chance to spend my DKP. I waited, and waited, and waited. Not a single item dropped that went to DKP bid that I could use.

That wasn't a big deal though. The bigger deal was behaviour like, as you say, the loot policy being changed months after I joined and was told a story of how the guild would be.

Detoxx makes a thread asking for member input, ignores all of it, locks thread and says thanks and please never bring this up again.

Umbrella makes officer and harasses Madm. Eatery harasses me.

Guild leadership spends every raid crying about everyone else not being ready, or talking in TS, or not mobilizing, or whatever else.. yet no one ever gets in trouble. Nothing is ever done but constant whining on behalf of our supposed guild leadership that runs the guild like a dictatorship regarding loot but as if its a daycare for retarded children when it comes to the social atmosphere.

Asgard is splitting our loot in half due to the alliance limiting available loot.

I'm basically bored at this point. I have 40% attendance, 500 DKP between me and my wife, and nothing to bid on while I watch loot council items awarded to people who already have VP items they're replacing. Thats "best for the guild"?

I post in the AFK thread saying I'll be leaving for awhile per policy. At this I had around 30% attendance I think.

I come back, notice all the drama on forums with several other members complaning about loot council, harassment, and other things. So I make my post to say what has been bothering me and see if Forsaken cares enough about me wanting to be part of the guild after making full membership to have a civil discussion.

Nope. Instead I get kicked by Slydexx, no other officer in the guild has any idea why I'm kicked and has still not told me to this moment, and all because I dared post in the private forum asking questions and saying why I was upset and not wanting to play lately.



You're argument is that 4 months after I applied you changed the policy, told the whole guild, and when everyone complained in the thread Detoxx started he locked it and told everyone to shut up and the policy is final? Thats your great image of how fair Forsaken is? Sure, you stated clearly that you were changing policy to fuck everyone over and do exactly what you said you wouldn't, that doesn't mean anyone was happy about it or accepted it.

You're desperately trying to make this about loot though and we both know its not about loot. That is what I can tell other players here that will make the reconsider joining your scam guild.

I was kicked for speaking truth to power. I talked about the loot council bullshit, about harassment, about bad leadership, about old TMO people popping up into officer positions, and all the other drama that everyone is upset about.

Why is it that my first post was about loot, Slydexx responded, and I said "I'll actually say everything that has been upsetting me lately to get it all out there" and then I got kicked after that?

Why kick me at all if its just because I didn't have attendance to bid on loot? I certainly didn't kick myself. So is complaining as a full member worthy of being kicked?

You do admit that, right? That forsaken kicks full members who put in months of time and posted in AFK thread because they came back and tried to talk about why they were upset and didn't want to play anymore?

According to the dkp site you are a liar who never made the min attendance. Keep making shit up kid

[azxten]

~90 raids out of 900 and he thinks he deserves something for it?

I think I deserve to be able to talk about the harassment, TMO officers coming back, loot council changes, and all the other drama without being kicked and given no reason.

Well anyway, there it is. Forsaken expects you to attend 90 raids and get nothing for it. A solid 3+ days of playing EQ for the guild and then kicked for discussing things unrelated to loot.

[Maner]

Very easy contest for the whole server!

I have some Holgresh Elder Beads I was going to donate to Forsaken guild bank depending on how they handled a post I made questioning guild policies.

They kicked me out of the guild with no comment because I posted something on the private full member forum! I lost my 500DKP and full member status simply for talking too loud.

So, obviously I won't be donating anything to the guild bank.

Here is the contest, whoever talks the best shit about Forsaken gets the Holgresh Elder Beads. Contest ends in 1 week when I will decide a winner.

You had 0% raid attendance and only 300 dkp not 500. I realize it's a game but are you this depraved in real life? Hard to imagine you even have a wife after all the lies today from you

[Lojik]

4 month afk...standard for a wizard

[azxten]

I had 0% raid attendance the whole time I was in guild apparently even though I had hundreds of DKP. My highest attendance was 40%, fact.

[indiscriminate_hater]

OP show us on the doll where Forsaken touched you

[disenchant]

In my time we took screen shots, do you not save your pay Stubbs from work? You have no proof of anything whatsoever. ..

[azxten]

If you want to believe I had 0% raid attendance my whole time in the guild thats your choice.

Forsaken is desperate to cling to the loot angle. Notice they aren't discussing all the other things like member harassment which is what I was actually kicked for talking about.

The only reason I brought up loot specifically is no one else gives a shit about internal drama but saying I got kicked for discussing drama when I had DKP/attendance tells outsiders they should consider for themselves if they want to end up in the same situation.

[ArumTP]

Ignition,

The more you post the more you sound like that T-Staff guy. Get over it, Forsaken isn't for you due your time constraints vs requirements to obtain loot.

[azxten]

Right, keep trying to deflect it back to loot.

[Bardybard]

Suddenly, as if by a mysterious force, Forsaken completely understands Rogean's plight with Green Grocer.

[disenchant]

Well Forsaken is a collection of elite players that eat and breath EQ, they're also a compilation of the worst kinds of people, the kind that you would never have as a friend. You simply use them to progress to the high end of the game keeping your mouth shut. If you abide their policy for loot rights and make the what... 7 to 8 days a month raiding then you'll get the loot not listed on their precious loot council table. It's not difficult, hell you signed up to be a number one Douche bag and be just like them. Then you got all emotional and they kicked you for being a cry baby, keep track and proof of you dkp, attendance, and auctions. Proof is in the pudding.

[Crevex]

90 raids and not a single item? Brutal.

[Jarnauga]

Here, for your convenience, this is the people that will never get loot that probably is the "fat that needs to be trimmed":

http://imgur.com/a/r7Ok3

Roughly half of your dkp roster.

[Maner]

I think I deserve to be able to talk about the harassment, TMO officers coming back, loot council changes, and all the other drama without being kicked and given no reason.

Well anyway, there it is. Forsaken expects you to attend 90 raids and get nothing for it. A solid 3+ days of playing EQ for the guild and then kicked for discussing things unrelated to loot.

90 raids in over how many months? and be truthful, looking it up isn't hard. And to be fair 90 was actually more than the site says.

As for former TMO people, apparently you weren't actually paying attention to that guild meeting last night after all.

FAT is better off without a ghosting wizard imo

[Colgate]

OP does not seem like a mad crybaby at all

[Maner]

If you want to believe I had 0% raid attendance my whole time in the guild thats your choice.

Forsaken is desperate to cling to the loot angle. Notice they aren't discussing all the other things like member harassment which is what I was actually kicked for talking about.

The only reason I brought up loot specifically is no one else gives a shit about internal drama but saying I got kicked for discussing drama when I had DKP/attendance tells outsiders they should consider for themselves if they want to end up in the same situation.

who harassed you kiddo? asking you why your attendance was at 0% for 30day and only 11% for lifetime isn't harassment, its figuring out if you should be kicked or not. Obviously the answer was you should be kicked, as you were nothing but a ghost on our roster. However feel free to reapply if you think your play times may actually allow you to participate in a raiding guild.

[azxten]

90 raids in over how many months? and be truthful, looking it up isn't hard. And to be fair 90 was actually more than the site says.

As for former TMO people, apparently you weren't actually paying attention to that guild meeting last night after all.

FAT is better off without a ghosting wizard imo

The image is right up there of the roster showing 91, so you're just lying more with direct proof a couple comments up. My name is still on the roster and its marked with a little red dot bro.

Keep clinging to that ghosting angle even though you can likely still see my post in the AFK thread if they didn't already delete it.

[Maner]

The image is right up there of the roster showing 91, so you're just lying more with direct proof a couple comments up. My name is still on the roster and its marked with a little red dot bro.

Keep clinging to that ghosting angle even though you can likely still see my post in the AFK thread if they didn't already delete it.

I misread the lifetime total, but keep being proud of your 91 raids out of 890, that alone is enough reason for a raiding guild to kick you and not give you loot. Posting that you are going afk in the forum doesn't somehow put your attendance on hold. It just means you wont be kicked for not being there. When you came back instead of working to get your attendance up you bitched about not being able to spend your dkp. We have the raid attendance requirements to specifically keep loot going to people who ghost, like you.

your 60 day was 7% your 30day was 0% and you think you deserve the right to bid on loot? Lets ignore the fact that your first raid was on 6/19/15 which means you were in the guild for 8 months, in which time you couldn't achieve more than 11% lifetime attendance?

you're dismissed kid

[Kodim]

Anyone point out that there exists another guild in that alliance, which is completely different and is full DKP bids?

There exists an option for everyone if you look.

[azxten]

*yawn* You sound real mad Maner. You ok?

I already addressed all your tired points earlier in the thread.

Keep clinging to the loot angle. When do you want to talk about how Madm was harassed by Unbrella? How about the locked loot council thread where tons of members are still complaining to this day about the changes and how their opinions were discarded?

[azxten]

Eatery, but you don't know that story, do you? Its posted on the member forums if they didn't delete my post.

Asking me why my attendance? What? No one asked me anything. I made a post about harassment, loot council, and shitty leadership and was kicked with zero comment.

[Jarnauga]

http://i.imgur.com/wM7jAhx.png

i like the "scoring awesome loots" part

[Maner]

*yawn* You sound real mad Maner. You ok?

I already addressed all your tired points earlier in the thread.

Keep clinging to the loot angle. When do you want to talk about how Madm was harassed by Unbrella? How about the locked loot council thread where tons of members are still complaining to this day about the changes and how their opinions were discarded?

why would I be mad? I keep my RA high enough to bid on anything I want to... and unlike you I haven't ghosted for 6 months.

It was locked because they scheduled a guild meeting to discuss it instead of letting it get out of control on the forums. Unlike you I actually know madmoiselle and the "former TMO" wasn't the only reason. But facts are obviously your kryptonite.

If you had been around for the last 3 months you would know that loot council isn't some new thing. You getting upset about it now just proves that you ghosted and didn't deserve any loot anyway.

[Maner]

Eatery, but you don't know that story, do you? Its posted on the member forums if they didn't delete my post.

Asking me why my attendance? What? No one asked me anything. I made a post about harassment, loot council, and shitty leadership and was kicked with zero comment.

or so you claim

[azxten]

Hold tight to that loot angle, cuddle it.

[Secrets]

I logged in on my bard and was LFG when randomly I got a Forsaken tell asking if I was interested in joining.

Any guild that mass recruits without due process is going to be shit. I guarantee it.

[Maner]

Hold tight to that loot angle, cuddle it.

Its the entire reason you are bitching, just go read your post. you're a loot whore who was upset he wasn't allowed to bid on anything after a 2 month ghost. You don't care that someone you don't know got harassed by another member, you're just using that to deflect from your real issue. That you weren't allowed to spend your 300dkp with 0%raid attendance

[Danth]

Per this thread, apparently some folks think a person who shows up to almost a hundred guild events warrants nothing for his efforts. ~90 guild events in ~6 months is roughly one every other day. That's a lot.

When the Forsaken recruiters come calling to me, I politely tell them "no thanks" and go about my business. I've been in online gaming long enough to know the extreme expectations high-end guilds tend to place on their members, and know it's not for me. Perhaps the original poster is less familiar with online gaming? I don't know his history, but I hope he's wise enough to treat this as a learning experience.

I have a longstanding personal rule of never joining a guild which uses any form of currency-based loot, and immediately leave any guild which transitions to such. That rule has for years done a fine job of ensuring my hobby remains fun and free, rather than turning gaming into a really lousy second job with schedules, on-call requirements, and no pay.

Danth

[Prismaticshop]

11% RA

11% RA

11% RA

11% RA

11% RA

11% RA

11% RA

[Prismaticshop]

http://i.imgur.com/wM7jAhx.png

i like the "scoring awesome loots" part

well, vulaak loot is awesome, before disbanding Rampage hadn't killed him in a while.

So, I'd say this quote is accurate.

[Danth]

Any guild that mass recruits without due process is going to be shit. I guarantee it.

That just means they have fewer recruits than their competition, which makes sense since Forsaken was typically in the number 2 spot. Otherwise pretty well any higher-end guild in a setting with contested content is going to be basically similar to the next. They'll all, of necessity, demand excessive commitment at nutso hours out of their membership. They have to operate like that because if they don't they'll lose to the folks who do. If you want to see top pixels while maintaining a casual schedule, you had better pick a game with instancing or no competition (like P99 Red).

I'll settle for skipping the high-end pixels but otherwise playing this game how I choose to, when I choose to. I consider it a good trade in my favor. Those top pixels do nothing for you if you wake up one day and realize you hate the game.

Danth

[azxten]

They left out "scoring awesome loots for old TMO members we make officers the moment they come back."

[Merekai]

It seems like a lot of guilds do this. I joined Azure Guard and earned a lot of DKP and was saving it up for some good items. In their bid system you can only make a max DKP bid of 200 or so and by golly gosh darn it every time i max bid the the loot council awarded the items to officers. How convenient.

If you bid the max amount and someone else also bid the max amount the item is awarded to the person with the higher amount of DKP available to spend - there was no officer back channel bullshit going on and GTFO for claiming we do crap like that, if you knew what officers did and the time spent in order to better the whole guild you'd understand why I take offense to such an accusation.

Chevey

[Prismaticshop]

They left out "scoring awesome loots for old TMO members we make officers the moment they come back."

Well tbh I'm pretty sure no one in rampage with 11% raid attendance got vulaak loot bud.

Maybe in other games like wildstar or Guild wars 2 you can hope for pixels whilst being a casua scum, but this is P99, maybe you didn't realize but it's quite hardcore.

[azxten]

Meh I'll jump in here too. Azure Guard hoarded loot similarly to Forsaken.

I was also a member of Azure Guard (I've been in basically every big guild on this server on various characters and am still in several of them). I left for the same reasons that lonmoer just outlined. Guild loot policy being carefully crafted to control where loot actually ends up.

When I left AG they had a policy where officers made their own decision on if an item was appropriate for a class, blah blah blah. It was a total mess of favouritism.

I will give AG credit though because they listened to my opinions, took my feedback seriously and implemented changes, and this was also a couple years ago so who knows what has changed. They didn't kick me for saying I was upset with policy and wanting to talk about it.

[azxten]

Well tbh I'm pretty sure no one in rampage with 11% raid attendance got vulaak loot bud.

Maybe in other games like wildstar or Guild wars 2 you can hope for pixels whilst being a casua scum, but this is P99, maybe you didn't realize but it's quite hardcore.

Keep claiming that 90 out of 900 raids is a joke for attendance and deserving of zero loot. That is my lifetime attendance, my highest 30 day was 40% and your only going on and on about low attendance because I stopped playing due to the obvious scam Forsaken was pulling on its members.

Its not like other members don't agree, they are just too scared to say anything. I know they agree because I can name at least a dozen people who told me they agree only in the last 24 hours.

[Danth]

That would make sense if it was just 1 raid a day every day. but raid attendance is 1 for every target killed or attempted. in that 8 month period for example there were over 100 raids a month

I don't mean he raided a lot relative to his guild; I mean he raided a lot in an absolute sense. Doing stuff every other day is a lot. Running multiple events every day represents a completely different level of determination. I agree with you, actually, in that the original poster (as a fairly casual player with modest game hours) really had no place joining a high-end guild at all. I've been around long enough to know that. Perhaps he didn't fully realize what he was getting himself in to--a hypothesis supported by the very existence of his anger. He calls it bait-and-switch, which is a common accusation made when people don't realize what they got themselves in to. At his activity level, he'd fit in a lot better in a low- or middle-tier guild.


Danth

[azxten]

He calls it bait-and-switch, which is a common accusation made when people don't realize what they got themselves in to. At his activity level, he'd fit in a lot better in a low- or middle-tier guild

What you're missing is what I was told when I joined. AFK is fine, no attendance limits, loot council is minor, etc. All of this changed afterwards and anyone in Forsaken will tell you how pissed off people were about it. They were so upset Detoxx made a thread for them to talk about it and then locked it without answering it one, simply saying "discussion over, changes are permanent."

I never applied to Forsaken of my own decision, I was recruited and asked to apply. I knew they were assholes and I knew this is how it would end but I also didn't want Rampage to have a monopoly on the high end of the server.

I've always moved between high end guilds here staying with the underdogs because otherwise you end up with a huge pile of shit like Kunark and TMO where one guild controls everything and everyone is scared to upset them because they might not be allowed to raid anymore. I've never been scared to call TMO or Forsaken members assholes to their face even when I was a member of either of those guilds.

[Colgate]

www.livejournal.com

[Danth]

What you're missing is what I was told when I joined.

I didn't miss that. Their recruiters have told me the same thing. I assume someone knows the difference between a sales pitch versus reality. The top guilds always claim they don't mind casual players. The lower-end guilds typically claim they'll see the top eventually. Neither claim is ever particularly true. You've been here for some 6 years; you of all people should know that. Perhaps that's why you're so angry right now--maybe you genuinely believed Forsaken was different. I can imagine myself there and if that's the case then I'd feel betrayed, too. However, I don't fall into that mode of thought. I consider one high-end guild basically the same as the next. The names change; the modes of operation remain the same. Perhaps I'm more cynical than you, or perhaps I'm simply pragmatic....or maybe some of both.

Either way, there's not much you can do short of moving on. If you want, be angry at the system which produces the guild scene here, but neither of us can change it. Best you can do is try to find a guild that's compatible with how you play the game and enjoy the parts of P1999 that're worth enjoying.

On a related note, in over twenty years of online gaming I've never seen a large clan/squad/guild that isn't full of people who're angry about something or other. when things seemed quiet, at first, typically just meant I was out of the loop. Drama and cliques seem to come with the territory.

Danth

[Dirtynads]

I've already been informed Dial a Port is actually run by a Forsaken member. I have no proof of this but that is what someone claimed to have proof of and was asking me to buy it from them.

Sorry crazy man I am not in Forsaken or any other raiding guild for that matter...Have yourself a great day.

[nyclin]

I have proof that Swish is actually Detoxx and he simply retired from the forums so that he could work from within the game to provide us with entertaining RnF threads.

[Cecily]

Its the entire reason you are bitching, just go read your post. you're a loot whore who was upset he wasn't allowed to bid on anything after a 2 month ghost. You don't care that someone you don't know got harassed by another member, you're just using that to deflect from your real issue. That you weren't allowed to spend your 300dkp with 0%raid attendance

You guys should decide if you're a DKP guild or not. If DKP gets spent, unlike tmo, the highest bidder should win. Active players have more DKP and replenish it faster. Adding an attendance requirement minimum makes your DKP worthless to casual players. Not that this is suprising with your leadership. Why I'm still in TMO.

PS. Please stop trying to recruit me.

[disenchant]

Well if they're raiding 3 times per day and require attendance of 25% then that's insane, fun to raid but wow you spend all day and night playing eq, do you even work? 100 raids in 30 days, raids average 3 to 5+ hours. So that could average easily over 90 to 150 hours in a month... Thank god mommy and daddy support an eq raid leader huh

[Pokesan]

90 raids and not a single item? Brutal.

[Pokesan]

Per this thread, apparently some folks think a person who shows up to almost a hundred guild events warrants nothing for his efforts. ~90 guild events in ~6 months is roughly one every other day. That's a lot.

[Big_Japan]

that quote isn't exactly true. of course u should get an item after 90 raids.

but i think a nerd virgin who is still showing up to raids after receiving zero items for 5 months is "natural selection at work" -holly windstalker

[Pokesan]

Well if they're raiding 3 times per day and require attendance of 25% then that's insane, fun to raid but wow you spend all day and night playing eq, do you even work? 100 raids in 30 days, raids average 3 to 5+ hours. So that could average easily over 90 to 150 hours in a month... Thank god mommy and daddy support an eq raid leader huh

[sarae]

Meh, we'll see...

No Forsaken member is going to post here other than officers or PR shills for the guild since its against policy. They all know the guild is a steaming pile of shit though and I've confirmed this with tons of members this morning.

We... will.. see.

[sarae]

,

[Pokesan]

,

a/s/l?

[Hiragawa]

You guys should decide if you're a DKP guild or not. If DKP gets spent, unlike tmo, the highest bidder should win. Active players have more DKP and replenish it faster. Adding an attendance requirement minimum makes your DKP worthless to casual players. Not that this is suprising with your leadership. Why I'm still in TMO.

PS. Please stop trying to recruit me.

Don't really give a shit how Forsaken runs their guild, but I've got to agree with Cecily. Attendance grants DKP. Having DKP allows people to bid. People that play more have more DKP, thus, people that play more won't be out bid by people who play less.

Twisting in awkward raid attendance rules on top of DKP and a blind bid (Seriously, blind DKP bids? That's just shady right there by itself, but with everything else, ehhh), of course you're going to wind up with someone ripping into you in RnF. And if the numbers are correct and he attended 90 raids without being able to bid once...

Man do I feel bad for your members.

[disenchant]

Maybe if all you do is raid sky.... Take the repop last sunday, every major velious target was down in under 3 hours and you get 1 attendance for every target. Even this week when everything is spread out, it may be a total of 2 hours of actual play time to make every single target if you aren't tracking.

Understanding how raiding works before speaking on it would be nice

Oh did I twist up your little panties pansy boy, guess you're the expert who can tell me (the novice) how to do 100 raids in less than 30 hours...

[disenchant]

Oh did I twist up your little panties pansy boy, guess you're the expert who can tell me (the novice) how to do 100 raids in less than 30 hours...

I had to re quote myself cause after thinking and reflect ting on your comment you actually stated you can do 100 raids in 8 hours since you said 2 hours play time per week. Ahhh, I feel much better.

[Prismaticshop]

Man do I feel bad for your members.

Judging by their guild thread Forsaken gets a lot of targets, and now that their opposing guild killed itself they are about to get one hell of a pixel shower.

Repops happen 2 to 3 days a week right? Then you need to attend 1/4 of those 2 to 3 days, which seems fairly reasonable to me.

On top of that once you reach those 25% raid attendance you can bid anything you want on any item you want, the more you play, the more you can spend.

What's wrong about that? If you can't attend 1/4 of the 2 to 3 days shit repops, go join Taken and farm HoT or something imo

[Troxx]

guilds that track your attendance and award DKP should be letting DKP totals dictate where loot goes.

DKP system + a guild that loot councils all the good stuff to certain folks at discounted DKP = a fucked up system.

[Jimjam]

I can imagine loot council being useful in a DKP guild that has its class membership seriously skewed in a way that threatens the guild's success, perhaps is drastically lacking geared up tanks or whatever.

But as a whole it seems that the idea of currency is the opportunity for it to be exchanged.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Mixing loot council and dkp is dumb.

Dont give up OP, your guild is out there somewhere.

http://i.imgur.com/n3fhbe7.jpg

[Seltius]

coming from a guy who had*


This was TMO era btw.

circa 2014 or before?

[Rattle Squirrell]

Wow it's crazy to me people get this into the game....

[ergo]

Do you know how to get loot? You track. Lewt council be like hey, he spends 10hrs a day tracking. Hmm only 23% R/A but tracks/helps with pulls/trainups /lewts4you

That's actually how it works.

[Mojoz_Mon]

So ya Loot Councils can be lame when there an item you really want but I guess I will ask this of you man, and no I am not a Forsaken member. You had like 6 months in guild and have an array of 60's you say in your time raiding with them did you :

* Provide any FTE's?
* Face track mobs non stop?
* Provide Charged Hammers when getting to raid?
* Provide Gate Pots?
* Pull anything for raids?
* Keep /logs ... for pop timers? ** Which I guessing you didn't cause you can't provide them to show your 40% + Raid attendance and 500 DKP?

I mean there is alot to raiding then just camping your toon, buffed and sitting and waiting for a batphone...

Loot councils suck yes but I am sure a lot of the people getting these items have spent countless hours for your guild well... X Guild.. Doing Face tracking, FTEs, Arranging Raids.. For alot longer then your time in the guild.. And really ... Why do you wanna waste your 500 DKP on 1 item when in a couple of months you can get for 1/4 of the price.. Just saying bro sorry you felt your where so wronged here.. Can't make everyone happy when it comes to that Pixel Quest!

[ergo]

Wow it's crazy to me people get this into the game....

I play to win.

[Pokesan]

I play to win.

tracking for 10 hours a day is very far from winning, my good chum!

[ergo]

tracking for 10 hours a day is very far from winning, my good chum!

It is when you run rampage off the server for losing for a month...

[ergo]

I mean to be fair, Rampage lost the moment they needed help from Divinity on AoW and then again with Taken in ToV.

[Pokesan]

please take your pills

[ergo]

please take your pills

I'm sorry, you took all my stupid pills I was saving for a rainy day. I'll take to my dealer or you can ask her when you get home.

[Pheer]

I mean to be fair, Rampage lost the moment they needed help from Divinity on AoW and then again with Taken in ToV.


nice b8 m8

[Pokesan]

I'm sorry, you took all my stupid pills I was saving for a rainy day. I'll take to my dealer or you can ask her when you get home.

We'll have to work around your busy schedule of tracking 10 hours a day

[ergo]

Not everyday, we killed almost everything yesterday sooo come hug me in DN.

[ergo]

I'm sorry, you took all my stupid pills I was saving for a rainy day. I'll take to my dealer or you can ask her when you get home.

nice b8 m8

Dem facts are a motherfucker aren't they?

[Malbolshia]

Man, thank goodness I didn't join this guild when all my friends left our leveling guild for Forsaken..

Are there even any raiding guilds on this server that don't treat their people like trash?

[ergo]

Man, thank goodness I didn't join this guild when all my friends left our leveling guild for Forsaken..

Are there even any raiding guilds on this server that don't treat their people like trash?

Asgard is pretty laid back..we do talk shit to each other, usually in jest...

[Pokesan]

Man, thank goodness I didn't join this guild when all my friends left our leveling guild for Forsaken..

Are there even any raiding guilds on this server that don't treat their people like trash?

Probably CSG, I hope.

They won't return my phone calls though. Cold as ice, Nemce.

[Pheer]

Dem facts are a motherfucker aren't they?

except for that part where forsaken and asgard couldn't kill anything until they teamed up

herp derp


Also this quote:

I'm sorry, you took all my stupid pills I was saving for a rainy day. I'll take to my dealer or you can ask her when you get home.

is such a garbage insult that its about on par with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMAhCCZDwtU

[ergo]

except for that part where forsaken and asgard couldn't kill anything until they teamed up

herp derp


Also this quote:



is such a garbage insult that its about on par with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMAhCCZDwtU

Which is 100% fine, since neither was the top guild on the server, when Rampage was. That's the difference. AKA rampage was top until someone, even two guild together managed to give them ANY competition at ALL.

[Kileras]

Man, thank goodness I didn't join this guild when all my friends left our leveling guild for Forsaken..

Are there even any raiding guilds on this server that don't treat their people like trash?

CSG alliance, <Anonymous>, are the casual friendly names. I don't think any of these guilds truly treat their people like trash, it is all about expectations and what you are looking for in the game. I get plenty of people who app <anonymous> and I direct to other guilds because I know what they are looking for is not what we really can do or offer them. The history and culture of the server is pretty easy to understand in a few forum posts. You know what you are getting into when you step into the big raiding scene ( and I don't mean that in a negative way, there is just a big sacrifice that needs to happen to make that whole system work and maintain itself). A lot of people in those guilds are putting in a massive amount of time to make the train chug along, and if you want a chance at some of that BiS stuff, you gotta understand that you gotta put in your time too and wait in line.

[Raev]

and you can count . . . . on me, waiting for you, in the parking lot!

[Turp]

Guild Leaders of Forsaken only ran the council to start velious. The new approach is pure DKP bid.
Their response :
We are going to begin phasing out loot council. We realize that it is something that is slowly becoming less and less needed for the success of the guild. We also realize the concerns of the members and this is our answer to slowly phase out what we thought was needed for the success of the guild.
(Listens to members , except me)

Only Dozekar will remain loot counselled as we feel it is the best way to make sure these tears are used quickly and efficiently.

To begin this, I will be removing all items from Loot Council
-Forsaken

if holds true than the future looks promising.

[Jimjam]

I play to win.

The winning move is not to play.

[trite]

Which is 100% fine, since neither was the top guild on the server, when Rampage was. That's the difference. AKA rampage was top until someone, even two guild together managed to give them ANY competition at ALL.

Rampage leadership opted to bow out while on top. 99% members had ST keys, 99% had stuff from NToV and the core was decked out....these guys weren't a collection of neckbeards foaming at the mouth for pixels, well maybe that isn't true, but they did have the most stringent standards for recruitment and expectations for behavior. It took 7 weeks in the Velious era to become a full member...Rampage was 100ish players who played well. If you saw 90 rampage online that was the whole fucking show, everyone was on lol...it was a good guild

[azxten]

If they're getting rid of loot council thats great, the pressure worked. Not just from me but from the dozens of other members who were pissed off about this and refusing to remain silent. Its not like I was the first or the last.

I have to wonder though...

When I was kicked someone told me they would be conducting a poll in secret of all members and asking them if they wanted loot council and if not would they leave the guild over it. They planned to present it to the leadership and stage a mass exodus if they didn't listen.

Forsaken leadership shook?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYZf-lBF_U

Son, they shook...
'cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks
scared to death, scared to look
they shook
'cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks
scared to death, scared to look

Props to that member who came up with the secret polling plan, wish I'd been that creative instead of just speaking truth to power.

[Senies]

I'm a man of integrity who isn't afraid to call assholes out even when I know I'll lose pixels and thats exactly what happened.
Cheers

[Senies]

Ignition, you applied on 6/19/2015, and were made full member 11/19/2015. We also gave special consideration for your wife, who did not have the attendance to actually go up for vote as per our rules, because we wanted to make an exception for her so the two of you did not have to play the game under separate guilds.

Our policy page is transparent. Every change on it is dated explicitly. Our loot council change was implemented on 10/21/2015, and was clearly outlined in both our primary policy page, and in a full guild meeting.

This is also irregardless. You did not hold the required raid attendance to bid on loot. According to my database, you held 22% attendance at the point of your making full member (again, an exception we made for you, as our requirement is in fact, 25%).

I still do not understand all this animosity. You're upset because you were removed from the guild. You really should let it go.
so he was kicked out for voicing his option..... wow

[Senies]

OK I understand what you're getting at here. You're under the assumption that DKP is awarded to "lower tier" members, while the "upper tier" members get loot council.

Let me clear the air.

Our system is a very simple hybrid system. We all accrue DKP for every raid attended, every SoulFire quest completed, and every hour of tracking completed. Virtually all items are DKP bid items. So long as you are a full member main and have at least 25% raid attendance, either 30-day or collectively, you are welcome to bid any DKP amount. It is a silent bid, and the highest bidder wins the item, unquestionably.

Loot council is reserved for a small number of items, all of which are listed on an easy to locate spreadsheet posted for all members and applicants to view.

This list includes loot from Vulak, Tunare, and AoW, epic drops, the heads from Tormax, Dain, and Yelinak, and a few odds and ends items off of mobs like the new, updated Cazic Thule.

In total, the vast majority of items are bid items, and not loot council. Every single other item is a DKP bid item.

Why does anyone stay in your guild? your literally just said we LC all the good stuff...

[Jimjam]

Also 'Irregardless' is the worst word ever. The correct form is 'undisirregardlessnessfully'.

[derpcake]

i like how we were able to run a top 5 raid guild on eqlive for 10 years with a flat dkp system

loot council is silly when you consider the server stops at velious

when you are killing AoW and vulak it is even more pointless and people should question it

[solrokk]

i like how we were able to run a top 5 raid guild on eqlive for 10 years with a flat dkp system

loot council is silly when you consider the server stops at velious

when you are killing AoW and vulak it is even more pointless and people should question it

Agreed

[Big_Japan]

ive never even heard of a guild that didn't use a flat dkp system

sounds like a pretty good ruleset if all you want are literal submissives

[Bazia]

loot council basically means "if we dont like you we can decide to not give you loot" or "we like you so were going to give you loot early" there is no logical reason for it to exist in any DKP system

i mean DKP got popular specifically because it is seen as a way to make loot councils unnecessary

[derpcake]

loot council basically means "if we dont like you we can decide to not give you loot" or "we like you so were going to give you loot early" there is no logical reason for it to exist in any DKP system

i mean DKP got popular specifically because it is seen as a way to make loot councils unnecessary

on live you wanted to gear key classes / players first for the race

but that was never an issue, since you'd only recruit people that understood such things, so flat dkp worked out fine

those key classes / players were the ones that made most DKP in most cases

the schemes people fall for on this server are hilarious

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Sodors Finest Poster here,

Its time to bomb this thread, we had our fun but its getting bad (even for rnf standards).

http://i.imgur.com/bwlfF9w.jpg

[mjbcb0717]

i like how we were able to run a top 5 raid guild on eqlive for 10 years with a flat dkp system

loot council is silly when you consider the server stops at velious

when you are killing AoW and vulak it is even more pointless and people should question it

Agreed used dkp for ywars loot council is probably the dumbest thing in the
World of norrath and is for bottom feeder guilds who get loot by suckling that EPeen like a nursing pig

oh did I win the insult contest still waiting on my beads and 500k

[Jimjam]

Something that was mentioned as an advantage of loot council is it can be used to reward people who do intra-raid leg work, such as tracking.

Why not pay DKP for such jobs?

I suppose this could create an extra layer of politicking amongst the most eager nerds as they'll bicker amongst themselves over who gets to do the jobs and so earn the DKP?

Another problem people mentioned with DKP is that guilds may want to gear up key classes. I suppose in this situation they can add DKP multipliers for those classes (lets say they want to gear out some main tanks, perhaps warriors earn an extra n% dkp, which needs to be spent within a certain timeframe, thus allowing the warriors to bid big but also incentivising them to spend quick too).

Just some thoughts from someone who knows more or less nothing.

[MaksimMazor]

Lol

[Evia]

Something that was mentioned as an advantage of loot council is it can be used to reward people who do intra-raid leg work, such as tracking.

Why not pay DKP for such jobs?


QUOTED FOR TRUTH


----- that was brought up in the forsaken meeting as well, but leadership rebuked it with some odd reasoning on why it wouldn't work. Something about people being in different time zones doing tracking in prime time for them, when it's odd hours for the majority of the people in the guild, and yet they get a "premium" DKP for the work when in reality it was just 5pm on a friday for them. So of course it'd be unfair to make it work. /boggle


but loot council! yeah! loot council with dkp! that makes so much fucking sense!

[Tuljin]

Workin' for the man

[snow_man]

@OP, wow, so many gaps in your story... "An Item I can use" aka a NToV BiS Item... Guessing during your brief 40% self calculated sounds like you are loot hungry and not willing to work for it.

@Wah they changed the policy, every top tier guild does it...Rampage did it, Taken's done, I don't know inner workings of asguard, but im sure they've done, hell even BDA did it (except their policy just changed to /we surrender!)

@Myself - was trying to convince myself not to join forsaken, sadly this helped thread started making me think about joining them...
@Dottedup - Don't bomb my email! I was saying thinking of joining not am joining/need more spam from you, I get enough spam from you in game!
@OP - Wow you failed in your thread.

[Uton]

why is this 22 pages, who gives a fuck?

[stonez138]

Umbrella is a sack of shit. The sorriest cunt I've ever had the misfortune of being guilded with.

[mropey]

Man, thank goodness I didn't join this guild when all my friends left our leveling guild for Forsaken..

Are there even any raiding guilds on this server that don't treat their people like trash?

Asgard is a great guild!

[Lifebar]

Asgard is a great guild!

Confirmed

[dorp]

So, organizational politics determines the distribution of resources? Say it isn't so!

[snow_man]

Lol doesn't asgard = forsaken, just with a pure loot council? How is any better than what OP is crying about...

[Kodim]

Asgard is full dkp bid on everything.

[stonez138]

Asgard is full dkp bid on everything.

This a lie. In fact didn't Asgard have someone leave the guild because they weren't allowed to bid on a Bladestopper? Aren't there other "special" items awarded by loot council? Aren't certain item's instantly guild banked for a variety of reasons? (i.e. needs to go to one of main tanks "for the benefit of the guild" or to sell for guild funds)

[ArumTP]

This a lie. In fact didn't Asgard have someone leave the guild because they weren't allowed to bid on a Bladestopper? Aren't there other "special" items awarded by loot council? Aren't certain item's instantly guild banked for a variety of reasons? (i.e. needs to go to one of main tanks "for the benefit of the guild" or to sell for guild funds)

If you actually knew, or the person that left the guild, what bladestoppers are for this isn't a big deal. Bladestoppers aren't used for just running around in the offhand for some type of fashion statement, they are used as tactical pull and agro devices that cost a pretty penny to recharge. The person that left neither had the time dedication to be that agro guy on raids, nor any desire to keep that recharged. Good riddance!

As per special items rewarded, there are a scant few of those particular items.

Originally once upon a time we only rewarded key raid classes/highly active players teeth for VP keys. We needed to flesh out a good raid core to do that zone proper before just giving them out to any person. In the current since we have enough keys with the right players, you merely present medallions and if we got a tooth banked you get a key. We are also following the same procedure with sleepers keys. It wouldn't make sense to have a raid consisting of druids paladins and magicians just because they had a bunch of DKP to spend would it?

"Symbols" from HoT. If you got a dozekar tear, your symbols are free if you are there when drops wile you are present. Makes a lot of sense to actively help get those quests done rather than all that junk spread across the guild as much as possible.

Selling of droppables. I want to start off by saying Rampage sold all droppables for guild funds, so this action isn't very peculiar. We have some swifblades of zek, some dragonhide breastplates, and sold a scant few of hot drops as well. These sales go to fund the guild bank. This allows for the recharge of all the imaginable clickeys that exists. These items allow for raid success, and in turn better loot rewards. One person or so rustled is insignificant when compared the greater success of the guild.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This thread is a wonderful advertisement for a PSA that used to be on TV back in the day: if you join a dkp guild, make sure you understand the rules, make sure you know what *inherent problems* there are with a dkp system to see if the rules address those problems (or make them worse), and make sure you feel confident the leadership won't just make shit up as they go along.

Both loot council and dkp work well if they are done right. And, both suck if they are not. Choose who you raid with wisely, I'd advise. Don't go chasing waterfalls.
http://media3.giphy.com/media/tQ2MF51PTIFos/giphy.gif

[Speedi]

I want to start off by saying Rampage sold all droppables for guild funds.

That's a damn lie. Get your facts straight before opening your mouth. Rampage droppables was *always* offered to members first. Then if nobody wanted they was sold for guild funds. Then whatever they was sold for was used those to buy items that would benefit the guild or items that members wanted, but we no longer killed those targets. Like like Manna Robe's, Blade stoppers, puppet strings etc.

[Daldaen]

Bladestoppers aren't costly to recharge in the grand scheme of things. These are roughly what you pay the vendor to buy the item back on regular raid utility clickies. So if you're recharging just 1 it costs double the value shown.

Staff of Forbidden Rites - 100k
Locker of Escape - 10k
Prayers of Life - 1.5k
10 Dose Stinging Wort - 1k
Reaper of the Dead - 720
Midnight Mallet - 430
Puppet Strings - 400
Slow stone Amber - 250
Bladestopper - 220
Wooly Spider Silk Net - 20
Ring of Shadows - 20
Stalking Probe - 15 (1)
DA Earring - 0.5

These are the common things guild recharges will hit. Maybe Shrink/DS/MR potions too, I forget the cost. I usually just buy new ones. No one really recharges Rez staves because it's not worth it yet.

But yea, Bladestoppers don't cost a pretty penny to recharge.

[JurisDictum]

That's a damn lie. Get your facts straight before opening your mouth. Rampage droppables was *always* offered to members first. Then if nobody wanted they was sold for guild funds. Then whatever they was sold for was used those to buy items that would benefit the guild or items that members wanted, but we no longer killed those targets. Like like Manna Robe's, Blade stoppers, puppet strings etc.

That's kind of an over-the-top response to someone who mistakenly said "all droppable" instead of "most droppable." Its the exact same thing in Asgard (and probably Forsaken). Asgard always gives people a chance to buy the dropables -- as long as their main intends to use them.

The point is there is nothing questionable about selling some swiftblades and peerless dragonhide.

Asgard is pretty fair loot system. The biggest problem with dkp systems tends to be inflation. Guilds are ran by hardcore players usually (even casual guilds) -- and they tip the system so you have earn mass amounts of dkp by doing non-raid activity or mini-raid events. This allows them to earn far more dkp than average and basically outbid everyone out of every item until they have full BiS.

Frankly -- a lot of people that run MMO guilds are not that bright. Or they would realize they can get a completely fair looking dkp system that accomplishes the same thing as a loot council.

[GSZ]

You seem like you have a knack for drama. I'd kick you out of my guild too (and have kicked drama queens like you in other games.)

Would like to rerout this thread into a warning to all guilds out there: don't let OP into your guild.

[Kluwen1]

This a lie. In fact didn't Asgard have someone leave the guild because they weren't allowed to bid on a Bladestopper? Aren't there other "special" items awarded by loot council? Aren't certain item's instantly guild banked for a variety of reasons? (i.e. needs to go to one of main tanks "for the benefit of the guild" or to sell for guild funds)

Confirmed a 60 enchanter got butt hurt for not being allowed to bid on a bladestopper and left the guild. Mind you this was after velious launch.

[JurisDictum]

Confirmed a 60 enchanter got butt hurt for not being allowed to bid on a bladestopper and left the guild. Mind you this was after velious launch.

I always assumed the guy would sell it. What else justifies getting that mad about it?

[Kluwen1]

I always assumed the guy would sell it. What else justifies getting that mad about it?

I'd like to think not, its against rules to sell raid loot for personal gain.

[Pokesan]

You seem like you have a knack for drama. I'd kick you out of my guild too (and have kicked drama queens like you in other games.)

Would like to rerout this thread into a warning to all guilds out there: don't let OP into your guild.

like anyone is gonna listen to a guy who registered in december :rolleyes:

[GSZ]

like anyone is gonna listen to a guy who registered in december :rolleyes:

Something is wrong with the month of Decmeber?

Would also like to point out that not a single guild has recruited OP since my rerouting of the thread. Looks like people that register in the month of December have some pull around here after all.

[Pokesan]

Something is wrong with the month of Decmeber?

Would also like to point out that not a single guild has recruited OP since my rerouting of the thread. Looks like people that register in the month of December have some pull around here after all.

curse those handsome december devils

we'll meet again

[stonez138]

If you actually knew, or the person that left the guild, what bladestoppers are for this isn't a big deal. Bladestoppers aren't used for just running around in the offhand for some type of fashion statement, they are used as tactical pull and agro devices that cost a pretty penny to recharge. The person that left neither had the time dedication to be that agro guy on raids, nor any desire to keep that recharged. Good riddance!

As per special items rewarded, there are a scant few of those particular items.

Originally once upon a time we only rewarded key raid classes/highly active players teeth for VP keys. We needed to flesh out a good raid core to do that zone proper before just giving them out to any person. In the current since we have enough keys with the right players, you merely present medallions and if we got a tooth banked you get a key. We are also following the same procedure with sleepers keys. It wouldn't make sense to have a raid consisting of druids paladins and magicians just because they had a bunch of DKP to spend would it?

"Symbols" from HoT. If you got a dozekar tear, your symbols are free if you are there when drops wile you are present. Makes a lot of sense to actively help get those quests done rather than all that junk spread across the guild as much as possible.

Selling of droppables. I want to start off by saying Rampage sold all droppables for guild funds, so this action isn't very peculiar. We have some swifblades of zek, some dragonhide breastplates, and sold a scant few of hot drops as well. These sales go to fund the guild bank. This allows for the recharge of all the imaginable clickeys that exists. These items allow for raid success, and in turn better loot rewards. One person or so rustled is insignificant when compared the greater success of the guild.

TLDR. Seems like a long winded excuse to give items to favored players. So in summary I was right. Asgard is a glorified loot council?

[stonez138]

Asgard always gives people a chance to buy the dropables -- as long as their main intends to use them.

This is simply not true.

[GSZ]

TLDR. Seems like a long winded excuse to give items to favored players. So in summary I was right. Asgard is a glorified loot council?

Stonez138, buddy... This threads been rerouted (see a few posts up). If you could, please stay on topic. Trying to keep this thing from getting locked.

[Kluwen1]

TLDR. Seems like a long winded excuse to give items to favored players. So in summary I was right. Asgard is a glorified loot council?


There is no giving, items still go to dkp bid.

[Pint]

TLDR. Seems like a long winded excuse to give items to favored players. So in summary I was right. Asgard is a glorified loot council?

you nailed it, keep up the good work

[stonez138]

I'm sure the rogue that wanted to bid on the trident would agree.

[ArumTP]

I'm sure the rogue that wanted to bid on the trident would agree.

If you don't like how that was handled Mezmira, you are free to leave. As anyone else that feels that http://wiki.project1999.com/Trident_of_the_Deep_Sea belongs on anything other than a warrior.

[stonez138]

You're right! I don't like the loot policy so I never raid with you guys. The people I knew when I was leveling up have all left the guild. Why am I still in Asgard?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Asgard is the greatest best guild on the server.

[Pint]

You're right! I don't like the loot policy so I never raid with you guys. The people I knew when I was leveling up have all left the guild. Why am I still in Asgard?

Lol, you know where the door is

[Spyder73]

TLDR. Seems like a long winded excuse to give items to favored players. So in summary I was right. Asgard is a glorified loot council?

If you have not figured out that <Asgard> is just a shell game to gear Pints multiple characters (mostly bad characters, Paladin especially), then you are either naive or blissfully ignorant. He still pretends like he is not the GM and is just a pleb like the rest of us. Pint is the puppeteer and we are the puppets....never trust a dwarf

[Aviann]

Pint is a horrible person i dont want to be friends with him forever

[bktroost]

Can we shut this thread down so we can get new RnF posts. It's been desolate for days.

[JurisDictum]

Honestly though, I would feel like more of a bait and switch if I joined <Rampage> "the best guild on the server" -- only to have the leadership burn out the second there is any competition.

Imagine putting in all the work, only to be stuck in some hopeless subpar spin off like Bacon or Awaken or whatever the new guild will be called with reset dkp (once you realize no one wants to join no 2). All their raid efforts were just to fatten some old time IBs wallet; time to start again.

Meanwhile, if the OP just shut his flithy casual mouth for a few months, he would have gotten access to some of the best loot in the game putting in almost none of the work it took to displace a guild like <Rampage>. The way he conducted himself basically proves he is both and idiot and liar.

It doesn't take that much grasp on math to realize that you should have to attend quite a number of dragons before receiving loot off them. Particularly when you are part of the first wave of members killing the targets. But your time investment pays off in the long run if the leadership doesn't hoku-out and RMT off the server.

[nyclin]

Honestly though, I would feel like more of a bait and switch if I joined <Rampage> "the best guild on the server" -- only to have the leadership burn out the second there is any competition.

Imagine putting in all the work, only to be stuck in some hopeless subpar spin off like Bacon or Awaken or whatever the new guild will be called with reset dkp (once you realize no one wants to join no 2). All their raid efforts were just to fatten some old time IBs wallet; time to start again.

Meanwhile, if the OP just shut his flithy casual mouth for a few months, he would have gotten access to some of the best loot in the game putting in almost none of the work it took to displace a guild like <Rampage>. The way he conducted himself basically proves he is both and idiot and liar.

It doesn't take that much grasp on math to realize that you should have to attend quite a number of dragons before receiving loot off them. Particularly when you are part of the first wave of members killing the targets. But your time investment pays off in the long run if the leadership doesn't hoku-out and RMT off the server.


shine on, you crazy diamond

[jcr4990]

Yea I kinda feel like nobody outside of Forsaken buys into the "Rampage disbanded cause they couldn't handle competing with Forsaken" rhetoric. I could hardly type that without laughing. Seems much more likely that they just burned themselves out going as hard as they did for as long as they did. I talked to several Ramp friends that said they were thinking about quitting from burnout long before Forsaken was really anywhere close to competing.

Keep patting yourselves on the back though I guess :P

[Legday]

Yea I kinda feel like nobody outside of Forsaken buys into the "Rampage disbanded cause they couldn't handle competing with Forsaken" rhetoric. I could hardly type that without laughing. Seems much more likely that they just burned themselves out going as hard as they did for as long as they did. I talked to several Ramp friends that said they were thinking about quitting from burnout long before Forsaken was really anywhere close to competing.

Keep patting yourselves on the back though I guess :P

WB Trollololol!

[Thadeus]

Some more bullshit Rampage sympathizing. There wasn't competition the whole time, so "locking down" some dragons without competition isn't impressing anyone. The burnout came from the fact that you guys started losing more and more loot - getting only half the targets, and then having to share them with Taken.

If you didn't want to burnout right after the expansion came out (and yes, this is still RIGHT AFTER. There are still Vulak items that have never dropped.) then maybe practicing velious for months prior to the launch wasn't in your best interest. Or maybe <Rampage> just got stuck with a handful of shitty leaders that refused to do the reasonable thing and take a raid rotation when it was offered. That would solve your 24/7 3 AM batphone "crisis". But they never did that, because they are selfish scumbags.

Rampage; or rather, ex-rampage members, keep trying to portray their exit from the raid scene like they were #1 going out in a blaze of glory. But it's not fooling anyone. They withered and died in the face of competition, and Hokushin threw a childish temper-tantrum when he lost 'his' Rock of Smashing.

So in essence, Awakened is: the remnants of a shitty beaten guild, owing their name to the last childish act of a nerd getting mad about loot before they shit the proverbial P99 bed, removing items from the loot table cause of some personal vendetta nobody cares about.

Good job, can't wait to see what kind of guild Awakened is in 2 weeks.

[jcr4990]

Some more bullshit Rampage sympathizing. There wasn't competition the whole time, so "locking down" some dragons without competition isn't impressing anyone. The burnout came from the fact that you guys started losing more and more loot - getting only half the targets, and then having to share them with Taken.

If you didn't want to burnout right after the expansion came out (and yes, this is still RIGHT AFTER. There are still Vulak items that have never dropped.) then maybe practicing velious for months prior to the launch wasn't in your best interest. Or maybe <Rampage> just got stuck with a handful of shitty leaders that refused to do the reasonable thing and take a raid rotation when it was offered. That would solve your 24/7 3 AM batphone "crisis". But they never did that, because they are selfish scumbags.

Rampage; or rather, ex-rampage members, keep trying to portray their exit from the raid scene like they were #1 going out in a blaze of glory. But it's not fooling anyone. They withered and died in the face of competition, and Hokushin threw a childish temper-tantrum when he lost 'his' Rock of Smashing.

So in essence, Awakened is: the remnants of a shitty beaten guild, owing their name to the last childish act of a nerd getting mad about loot before they shit the proverbial P99 bed, removing items from the loot table cause of some personal vendetta nobody cares about.

Good job, can't wait to see what kind of guild Awakened is in 2 weeks.

http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif

[Pokesan]

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.

[Kluwen1]

Yea I kinda feel like nobody outside of Forsaken buys into the "Rampage disbanded cause they couldn't handle competing with Forsaken" rhetoric. I could hardly type that without laughing. Seems much more likely that they just burned themselves out going as hard as they did for as long as they did. I talked to several Ramp friends that said they were thinking about quitting from burnout long before Forsaken was really anywhere close to competing.

Keep patting yourselves on the back though I guess :P

Lol, I can only imagine the burnout that would taken place having zero competition in the TOV playground, must of been quite taxing. I'm fairly confident there was probably more competition fighting over the HoT mobs while countless FTE messages were going off from all the dragons up in North during prime time.

[JurisDictum]

Man because competing on this server is really what exhausts people......

I don't think having Forsaken there the past month burned them out any faster. In fact, I would say having Forsaken there probably burned them out even less compared to the first months of Velious. First months you are all concerned with server firsts, knocking out the content, putting endless hours in the game, locking down all ST keys, staying on your game. Once you are already marginally ahead of your opponents, you stop giving a shit.

Look. I wasn't in Rampage when the server started in Velious, because I didn't give a shit. I didn't see the point in farming Kunark for year and years and getting a bunch of dkp in the top guild -- l so I might be able to get the first wave of Velious loot.

So by your logic, the only reason people like me and many others weren't in the sleepers tomb first -- is because "we didn't give a shit."

The reason <Rampage> "doesn't give a shit" is because they couldn't beat our FTEs. They couldn't autofire, they couldn't get everyone in Forsaken banned for a month. When the suspensions came through and they realized they would still slowly be losing more and more as out raid force gears -- Hoku made his last raid announcement.

This is not me "trying to make them look bad." Its just facts. And let me ask you...how do you "burn out" on FTE races...when you didn't even FTE race until Forsaken was on seen? Especially considering they were constantly recruiting people that were willing to track.

For someone supposedly unbiased...you seem to be working over time to preserve the myth that Rampage quit because they already won.

Its classic EQ...we all already won

[MaksimMazor]

People still play this game?

[Aviann]

Asgard is recruiting guys, join Asgard (Asgardguild.net) today!!!

[JurisDictum]

People still play WoW?

[Serith]

This is not me "trying to make them look bad." Its just facts.

Do you have a source you pulled these "facts" from? Besides Detoxx's asshole, I mean.

Also: Sleeper's Tomb*, our*, It's*, scene*, It's*

[Thadeus]

I wasn't in Rampage, so I don't know. But I can't see one person throwing a tantrum over the rock of smashing causing a good portion of the guild to say "Ok, you didn't get your item, lets all quit." I think it was moreover that Rampage wanted all the server firsts, they didn't really care about rotation and like the fact of dominating the server. Everyone had the same opportunity from release to compete for those server firsts. Just because it took you guys 4 month to muster a force and compete when they already completed 90% of those server firsts doesn't mean they ran in the face of competition. If this were the case, 2 years from now, when someone else musters up a force and forsaken gets burned out....people will claim the exact same thing. In order to take competition in a real sense you have determine from release of the expansion up until every server first has been completed.

And you're right Vulak loot still hasn't dropped yet but once you've completed 90% of the server firsts, waiting for those last 2 times to obtain that server first over several months is almost more of a pain in the ass.

I agree with you the expansion is still fresh but......given all this content was beaten 12 years ago, 6 months is quite a while when you can kill almost all mobs within the first 2 weeks of the expansion being released.

Either way, I don't care but I just always see the TMO/Forsaken members ruining to the forums to taint the image of another guild to try and make themselves look better. Look back on the history of these forums and see people like - Alarti, Tiggles, Lazie, you, prismaticshop - the list goes on and on.

Rampage wanted all the server firsts, so they got them (and then continued to farm them for months), but then got burnt out on raiding coincidentally just as FA was beating them to all the FTEs and getting the lion's share of the mobs, and decided to quit 6 months into a new expansion. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Firstly, who wants server firsts that much on an emulated server of content beaten 15 years ago? There's no such thing as a server first, in my opinion, when actual first kills on those mobs are old enough to have gone through puberty. I doubt even Rampage is that conceited and petty.

Second, if they wanted the firsts, why didnt they just get them and leave? And if they wanted the loot, why didn't they stay around to get it? Your story has too many holes. I can't say why Rampage didn't have competition early on because I wasn't here; I got here a few months ago and have simply been watching their guild slowly lose more and more content and try to lawyer and exploit their way back into prominence.

Maybe it's ridiculous to think 20 people would agree to quit because of Hokushin's rock of smashing, but I doubt he phrased it that way. 20 people probably would quit simply because Hokushin quit though, regardless of the circumstances. Ontop of that, Rampage's ploy to FRAPS every single thing Forsaken did in order to try and get them raid suspended or banned failed, so their hopes of lawyering back to #1 were dashed. I imagine that is why they quit, because that was their last maneuver to try and remain relevant.