Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni

[Juevento]

If you guys haven't read through this thread yet, you should. I think it describes the issues with the raid scene in a nutshell.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220783

Cloki is a great representative of how folks should conduct themselves on the server. BDA and Omni have had our issues in the past, but we absolutely reject the notion of exploiting for our own personal gain.

[Oleris]

spawning dain = raping?

[Pokesan]

what of the patch dragons, Juevento?

[Juevento]

You mean the one dragon we killed and then realized how buggy they were and stopped?

[Pokesan]

no i mean the other dragons you killed subsequent to that before it was fixed

[Daldaen]

Any Guild/Alliance that spawns ring war - Concedes any Dain which mistakenly spawns upon failure of said war.

Every guild agreeing to this would make it so that there is no benefit to spawning and failing wars on purpose.

Without mandating something as retarded as banning people from attempting wars just because of how overtuned (read-not impossible) the war is currently.

[Herp]

You guys realize the Ring War is very beatable, right? And nobody is exploiting it, as you have to actually come close to killing it in order to get the dain per the agreement.

Detoxx is a retard, but in this case, you all are.

[Oleris]

it's because everyone knows either FAT or rampage will win if the shit is contested. Gotta try to limit others loot if ya can't compete.

[Sorn]

I have a big EQ crush on Cloki! :D

/irrelevant

[ArumTP]

Dump this thread in RnF where it belongs.

BDA's complaint is the ring war is buggy/too hard therefore should not be done. Despite both rampage and fat being very close to a completion.

BDA had no problem going for the first dain that spawned off FAT's first attempt at ring war completion. They only decided to try and take some noble high ground after they lost hard, and have been rustled ever since.

BDA had no problem clearing VP when the agro mechanics were bugged a few patches ago.

Omni has no business speaking about raid targets they have never made attempts at.

[Pokesan]

Dump this thread in RnF where it belongs.

BDA's complaint is the ring war is buggy/too hard therefore should not be done. Despite both rampage and fat being very close to a completion.

BDA had no problem going for the first dain that spawned off FAT's first attempt at ring war completion. They only decided to try and take some noble high ground after they lost hard, and have been rustled ever since.

BDA had no problem clearing VP when the agro mechanics were bugged a few patches ago.

Omni has no business speaking about raid targets they have never made attempts at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6zqHKd265E

[Juevento]

Dump this thread in RnF where it belongs.

BDA's complaint is the ring war is buggy/too hard therefore should not be done. Despite both rampage and fat being very close to a completion.

BDA had no problem going for the first dain that spawned off FAT's first attempt at ring war completion. They only decided to try and take some noble high ground after they lost hard, and have been rustled ever since.

BDA had no problem clearing VP when the agro mechanics were bugged a few patches ago.

Omni has no business speaking about raid targets they have never made attempts at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I

[Plax]

Dump this thread in RnF where it belongs.

BDA's complaint is the ring war is buggy/too hard therefore should not be done. Despite both rampage and fat being very close to a completion.

BDA had no problem going for the first dain that spawned off FAT's first attempt at ring war completion. They only decided to try and take some noble high ground after they lost hard, and have been rustled ever since.

BDA had no problem clearing VP when the agro mechanics were bugged a few patches ago.

Omni has no business speaking about raid targets they have never made attempts at.


WHAT A DORK !

[Tankdan]

might be the first time in my life i agreed with Chest

agree with Cloki too just for the record

Hope you're having a fun time PVEing on that PVP server my old friend.

[ridiculousmoose]

Are you guys new here?

They'll keep killing anything they can until someone in charge says to stop or one of them gets banned/suspended for doing it.

[Ravager]

Some people are like Worm in Rounders. They just gotta cheat.

[Gorillas]

Pan with this gem

"We're all better players, better geared, and better mechanically than we were on live. And we were doing it 4 months in with ~40 people on Druzzil."



I don't remember anyone doing a Ring War with 40 when Velious was the current content. Sounds like someone is pandering.

[Vianna]

Pan with this gem

"We're all better players, better geared, and better mechanically than we were on live. And we were doing it 4 months in with ~40 people on Druzzil."



I don't remember anyone doing a Ring War with 40 when Velious was the current content. Sounds like someone is pandering.

Yep. Complete fabrication. It took 80+ until people were geared/leveled. Cloki is probably a good guy, but lying to prove your point is not the way to do it.


#Oct 25 2001 at 5:30 PMRating: Decent
Anonymous
Anonymous
I have participated in this 10th Ring War. It is by far the most fun I have ever had in EQ. We had about 140 people set up for it. 90 were 50+, 71 were 55+. By the 3rd wave all **** breaks loose. It is very intense and you will only succeed if the war is organized and you have good leadership.

If you ever have a chance to participate in this quest, please do so. BTW, we did kill Narandi and Kavis got his 10th ring. 2nd one on Tarew Marr I believe.

Talamier
56th Enchanter
Tarew Marr

[Vianna]

Also Chest's claims that mobs wouldn't beeline for Thurg and run there is false as well. Depending on the timeline of course. This happened on live during the ring war. That is not a bug. It was changed to that way though.

Oct 29 2001 at 2:14 PMRating: Good
Ternada
3 posts
We completed the 10th Ring War for the first time on Druzzil Saturday, and it was a total blast. Some things to keep in mind:

- The giants are *NOT* kitable anymore. Their follow range was changed to basically melee range, so if you aren't directly engaged with a giant it will ignore you and beeline for Thurg.

- Two lines of Kromrif Spearmen will spawn. One not far East of the River in sight of the wurm caves, one farther West, towards the portal. These have a nasty ranged attack, but do not move. It is important to never TOUCH these, as if damaged, they'll start summoning EVERYONE to their deaths.

- The giants will spawn in three places: At the Wizard spires near EW zone (group of 6), South of the river (group of 10+leader), and West of the western Spearmen line (group of 10+leader).

- When Narandi spawns, he will be near the wurm cave, and will make a break in the direction of the EW zone. If he is allowed to despawn, the War is a draw. He FLURRIES, so every available person needs to get to him ASAP.

[Vianna]

50-60 wasn't enough for this attempt.


Quote
Reply
#Oct 29 2001 at 3:10 PMRating: Good
Anonymous
Anonymous
I just helped out in this war yesterday. I zoned out of thurg and being a 53 warrior, i was immediatly drafted into the war of a lifetime ;) We must have had at least 50-60 people on the battle fronts. We did not succeed in the end, not enough people ran in to kill the warlord at one time, and we got owned big time ;( Even in a failed attempt though, i must say it was the funnest day in EQ ive had in a long time. Make sure you got about a group per giant that spawns, and each group should have a cleric at least.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This thread gets some candy

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Leonardo-DiCaprio-Approve-In-Django-Unchained.gif

[Sweettouch]

You retards are still trying to pull the GM didnt say so routine? jesus some people should be shot

[Pan]

To clarify: we're better geared and better players with more 60s (and resources) available than we had on live - across the board. And nobody's been able to manage the ring war yet here, irrespective of what they've brought to the table (we had 154 people at one point during the server's first attempt). My contention is that it says more about the state of the event itself than those who have attempted it (if you buy the warranting argument).

[khanable]

Also Chest's claims that mobs wouldn't beeline for Thurg and run there is false as well. Depending on the timeline of course. This happened on live during the ring war. That is not a bug. It was changed to that way though.


Now THAT is interesting!

[Swish]

Any Guild/Alliance that spawns ring war - Concedes any Dain which mistakenly spawns upon failure of said war.

Every guild agreeing to this would make it so that there is no benefit to spawning and failing wars on purpose.

Without mandating something as retarded as banning people from attempting wars just because of how overtuned (read-not impossible) the war is currently.

You forgot to log in your GM account. Otherwise this isn't the Velious beta anymore mr tryhard :o

[Swish]

Separately I'd also like to say again how Omni is a shining example to the server, and that BDA rather than typing out a spinned "thanks" thread could start actually following their example :)

[Foxplay]

Only took my guild on live about 50 ppl for my ring10

But we also had Luclin AA points lol =p.....

Annnnnnd other people helped out in the zone cause it was "something to do"

[Ravager]

Separately I'd also like to say again how Omni is a shining example to the server, and that BDA rather than typing out a spinned "thanks" thread could start actually following their example :)

Calm down, have a cheeseburger, you'll feel better.

[ManuelThePopStar]

it's because everyone knows either FAT or rampage will win if the shit is contested. Gotta try to limit others loot if ya can't compete.

Hey, shit eater, check the Raid forums.

IT WAS <FORSAKEN> (DETOXX) WHO REQUESTED YOUR RINGWAR YOU DAIN

[PollieDarkearth]

Juev, thanks for the thread.


Dump this thread in RnF where it belongs.

Omni has no business speaking about raid targets they have never made attempts at.

This is entirely irrelevant to Cloki's comments on the state of the server and its rules. Furthermore, considering the content of velious and the state of most raiding guilds on the server compared to the original live timeline (IE, geared to teeth, min/maxing, 100x more 60s, better class layout), any guild with the time and leadership could kill any raid mob in this era. It's the unmanageable nature of the raid scene that prevents anyone from attempting any mob.

[Swish]

Calm down, have a cheeseburger, you'll feel better.

Calling it for what it is, stay mad friend.

[ArumTP]

Hey, shit eater, check the Raid forums.

IT WAS <FORSAKEN> (DETOXX) WHO REQUESTED YOUR RINGWAR YOU DAIN

This was wanted as nobody wanted a laggy/trainny mess of a zone. The tentative agreement was to get your uncontested dain, kill 2 warlords. Nobody is intentionally failing the war, and getting to kill warlords IS putting legitimate work into it. This is the final content that a clearly a bunch of us want to beat.

BDA's argument is we failed at ringwar therefore nobody should do it. But again it never stopped them from showing up from the first ringwar failed dain spawn. They have only taken this stance after the fact that they wont be able to contest a dain from FAT/Rampage in a FFA scenario, or possibly kill 2 warlords.

[Nibblewitz]

Is this where we bash BDA? Or where all the competitive guilds try to start a rotation for exploited pixels??

Regardless, Fuck BDA!

[ArumTP]

Is this where we bash BDA? Or where all the competitive guilds try to start a rotation for exploited pixels??

Regardless, Fuck BDA!

Your guild attempted to get "exploited pixels", lost bad, now advocates nobody should get dains

[Nibblewitz]

Your guild attempted to get "exploited pixels", lost bad, now advocates nobody should get dains

When you unclassicly spawn Dain 3 times a week, which natural Dain spawn would you like us to contest? I guess only the spawns that Sirken suspends you guys from.

[Ravager]

Calling it for what it is, stay mad friend.

Ironic, that's what I was doing. Take your own advice.

[Fire Beetle]

First off. Detoxx's initial post was rash. He should have worded it better. So he didn't write out every option that could be known to man. He wrote the one that benefited his guild. A guild leader trying to benefit his guild; who would have thought?

However, the intent of the post remains. I don't see anything wrong with people have fun and killing giants and then a dwarf. As Pint pointed out, as know it, the server is dead. There will not be any more expansions. What difference does it make?

Cloki's high ground regarding morally correct tactics over a 15 year old elf sim is admirable; ITS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME. The fact that so many care what so few do for their fun leaves me baffled.

Honestly Cloki if you want all far and games start looking from the top down. And I don't mean with you, I mean from the all the shrouded bans and suspensions that has plagued this server in the last two years. You seem to want an open book, a clear server where all answers and reasonings are provided for you. Here's your answer. People are having fun. Too subjective for you? Let's lawyer quest it out and get to the bottom of it!

[Fire Beetle]

Also, the more BDA posts the more they scream scum. And not just in the world of P99.

Jevento, Trolololo, Keke, and all the other BDA clowns, I want to remind you it's the holiday season. Perhaps go out and get some gifts for what real life friends and family you have left.

[ArumTP]

When you unclassicly spawn Dain 3 times a week, which natural Dain spawn would you like us to contest? I guess only the spawns that Sirken suspends you guys from.

The very first recent ring war a little over a week ago. Your guild attempted to get that dain. You lost bad, blamed everyone else for your failings. You now changed your stance, since you lost, that nobody should get a dain after a failed ring war.

[Ravager]

Also, the more BDA posts the more they scream scum. And not just in the world of P99.

Jevento, Trolololo, Keke, and all the other BDA clowns, I want to remind you it's the holiday season. Perhaps go out and get some gifts for what real life friends and family you have left.

You're a fine person your own self it would seem.

[Fire Beetle]

Don't try to understand their rational.

A few months ago Chest wrote a post outlining what was the current state of affairs in the raid scene on P99. And his post was spot on. It was before the FAT alliance; when Taken/Asgard/BDA where all predominately going for VP and Rampage was left alone to own all of NToV while Forsaken was struggling to get any raid mobs. At this point you didn't see any guild with ruffled jimmies.

But now, since the tides turned and guilds realigned, you see BDA, who has been left out due to the manner of which they handle themselves, complain of unfairness and undermine the server with ludicrous posts in RnF.

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=56131618

[Fire Beetle]

You're a fine person your own self it would seem.

Thanks. My post was to remind them that even though their immersion level is through the roof. There are more important things to worry about.

[Nibblewitz]

The very first recent ring war a little over a week ago. Your guild attempted to get that dain. You lost bad, blamed everyone else for your failings. You now changed your stance, since you lost, that nobody should get a dain after a failed ring war.

Indeed, our stance changed when the few ring war attempts used to gather data turned into many ring war attempts to spawn Dains. An extra Dain spawn a month isn't game breaking, and probably closer to classic. Spawning three of them a week to feed your pixel sickness is another matter.

[Oleris]

So, we should just stop trying? Limit our possible progression? Nothing is impossible.

[Fire Beetle]

So, we should just stop trying? Limit our possible progression? Nothing is impossible.

I think the standard should be whatever BDA can kill is as far along as the server raid scene is aloud to progess. Delete all NToV loot except for Ikitar.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Also, the more BDA posts the more they scream scum. And not just in the world of P99.

Jevento, Trolololo, Keke, and all the other BDA clowns, I want to remind you it's the holiday season. Perhaps go out and get some gifts for what real life friends and family you have left.

https://i.imgflip.com/vnohw.jpg

[Freakish]

When you unclassicly spawn Dain 3 times a week, which natural Dain spawn would you like us to contest? I guess only the spawns that Sirken suspends you guys from.
I mean classically there were patches going on left and right. Would we see three a week? Probably not. But every time the server came down for emergency maintenance there was another server repop full of mobs. Two a week was fairly common.

[ArumTP]

Indeed, our stance changed when the few ring war attempts used to gather data turned into many ring war attempts to spawn Dains. An extra Dain spawn a month isn't game breaking, and probably closer to classic. Spawning three of them a week to feed your pixel sickness is another matter.

I think there has only been 3 extra dains in total. This is an attempt to complete a ring war, not to explicitly spawn dains

[Ravager]

Don't try to understand their rational.

A few months ago Chest wrote a post outlining what was the current state of affairs in the raid scene on P99. And his post was spot on. It was before the FAT alliance; when Taken/Asgard/BDA where all predominately going for VP and Rampage was left alone to own all of NToV while Forsaken was struggling to get any raid mobs. At this point you didn't see any guild with ruffled jimmies.

But now, since the tides turned and guilds realigned, you see BDA, who has been left out due to the manner of which they handle themselves, complain of unfairness and undermine the server with ludicrous posts in RnF.

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=56131618

Show me the post where BDA says it's unfair. BDA and Omni are just calling an exploit an exploit and neither guild wants to exploit a bug.

But, since the mods don't seem to care, go on with the rhetoric.

[Ravager]

I think there has only been 3 extra dains in total. This is an attempt to complete a ring war, not to explicitly spawn dains

If it's not to exploit Dains would the guilds attempting ring wars agree not to kill Dains until the bug is patched?

[Fire Beetle]

If you can't read between the lines don't bother reading at all.

[Sweettouch]

This was wanted as nobody wanted a laggy/trainny mess of a zone. The tentative agreement was to get your uncontested dain, kill 2 warlords. Nobody is intentionally failing the war, and getting to kill warlords IS putting legitimate work into it. This is the final content that a clearly a bunch of us want to beat.

BDA's argument is we failed at ringwar therefore nobody should do it. But again it never stopped them from showing up from the first ringwar failed dain spawn. They have only taken this stance after the fact that they wont be able to contest a dain from FAT/Rampage in a FFA scenario, or possibly kill 2 warlords.

The fuck you high on?no one agreed

[Sweettouch]

Don't try to understand their rational.

A few months ago Chest wrote a post outlining what was the current state of affairs in the raid scene on P99. And his post was spot on. It was before the FAT alliance; when Taken/Asgard/BDA where all predominately going for VP and Rampage was left alone to own all of NToV while Forsaken was struggling to get any raid mobs. At this point you didn't see any guild with ruffled jimmies.

But now, since the tides turned and guilds realigned, you see BDA, who has been left out due to the manner of which they handle themselves, complain of unfairness and undermine the server with ludicrous posts in RnF.

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=56131618


Good ol' Detoxx,letting mentally challenge people earn dkp by shitposting

[ArumTP]

The fuck you high on?no one agreed

Well, not your guild

[Vianna]

Let's just get back to comparing Cloki's post to reality for a second because I think this was missed...

Cloki's post.

The ringwar may indeed be winnable. But so far the server is 0-fer on it. Winnable and tuned properly are two different things. Don't conflate them.

There's an easy answer to this: Fix the fucking Dain bug.

Fix the fucking ring war.

Don't exploit broken stuff.

The ring war is a jewel in the crown of velious. A really, really neat event that should have been completed many, many times in more than 4 months of velious. We're all better players, better geared, and better mechanically than we were on live. And we were doing it 4 months in with ~40 people on Druzzil.

It's broken. Fix it. But don't try to game what's broken for loot.

(if the staff is unable or unwilling to fix the Dain bug, it should be an easy thing to DT the should-not-have-been-spawned Dain...)

Now Reality...


Originally Posted by Ternada View Post
Oct 29 2001 at 2:14 PMRating: Good
Ternada
3 posts
We completed the 10th Ring War for the first time on Druzzil Saturday, and it was a total blast. Some things to keep in mind:

- The giants are *NOT* kitable anymore. Their follow range was changed to basically melee range, so if you aren't directly engaged with a giant it will ignore you and beeline for Thurg.

- Two lines of Kromrif Spearmen will spawn. One not far East of the River in sight of the wurm caves, one farther West, towards the portal. These have a nasty ranged attack, but do not move. It is important to never TOUCH these, as if damaged, they'll start summoning EVERYONE to their deaths.

- The giants will spawn in three places: At the Wizard spires near EW zone (group of 6), South of the river (group of 10+leader), and West of the western Spearmen line (group of 10+leader).

- When Narandi spawns, he will be near the wurm cave, and will make a break in the direction of the EW zone. If he is allowed to despawn, the War is a draw. He FLURRIES, so every available person needs to get to him ASAP.

Notice the date of that post. October 29th, 2011 was the first time it was completed on Druzzil. December 5th 2000 was the release date of Velious. Yet he claimed 40 did it 4 months in. I mean no offense, but the guy you are praising straight up lied.

[Detoxx]

Show me the post where BDA says it's unfair. BDA and Omni are just calling an exploit an exploit and neither guild wants to exploit a bug.

But, since the mods don't seem to care, go on with the rhetoric.

Neither guild wants to exploit a bug after exploiting a bug and failing, you mean?

[Detoxx]

If it's not to exploit Dains would the guilds attempting ring wars agree not to kill Dains until the bug is patched?

As i said in the other thread, if no one kills the Dain, then that Dain will remain up until next server downtime

[Detoxx]

Also, its insane the amount of inflammation going on here. You all make it seem like Dains are spawning left and right. We did 2 in a row simply because we got incredibly close and had a new strat we wanted to try. Haven't done one since.

[Ravager]

If you can't read between the lines don't bother reading at all.

And if you have nothing truthful to say, don't bother posting at all.

[Freakish]

I honestly think the next guild to attempt the war will kill it.

[Pan]

Notice the date of that post. October 29th, 2011 was the first time it was completed on Druzzil. December 5th 2000 was the release date of Velious. Yet he claimed 40 did it 4 months in. I mean no offense, but the guy you are praising straight up lied.

I don't know where this info is coming from, but it may be better than my memory. I was fairly certain that Seekers and L'Malla and HoSS had the ringwar on farm mode with those numbers during the spring/summer prior to SoL. I do recall participating in a number of successful 10s, pre-SoL as a guest of HoSS. Although I have piles of screenshots from that era, I don't have any logs. I apologize if I'm wrong about it and trivialized its difficulty in that era.

[Prismaticshop]

You guys are all dumb cunts, this is going to RnF now

gratz

[Raev]

Notice the date of that post. October 29th, 2011 was the first time it was completed on Druzzil. December 5th 2000 was the release date of Velious. Yet he claimed 40 did it 4 months in. I mean no offense, but the guy you are praising straight up lied.

When did you get so salty Vianna? I never remembered that about you.

[Breaken]

I don't see why everyone glosses over the easiest solution:

Any Guild/Alliance that spawns ring war - Concedes any Dain which mistakenly spawns upon failure of said war.

This pushes the guild/alliance to really think about if they might win or not. Most guilds/alliances are not so willing to give up a Dain to the competition, so they won't just spawn the war for any reason.

Also, Chest, just because BDA did the ring war twice months ago, ("Once at the start of velious, and a 2nd time after a patch. Both times we had staff there to yank giants out of the ground.") doesn't mean it is not winnable. You are pulling from your own experiences that are no longer valid. The bugs you constantly bring up are not hindering the raid. The war is completely winnable, and it will be won soon.

[Vianna]

When did you get so salty Vianna? I never remembered that about you.

Not Salty at all. Just providing truth to the discussion. People say many things to win a discussion. As I said I mean no offense.

[Vianna]

I don't know where this info is coming from, but it may be better than my memory. I was fairly certain that Seekers and L'Malla and HoSS had the ringwar on farm mode with those numbers during the spring/summer prior to SoL. I do recall participating in a number of successful 10s, pre-SoL as a guest of HoSS. Although I have piles of screenshots from that era, I don't have any logs. I apologize if I'm wrong about it and trivialized its difficulty in that era.

Ternada D'spite who was in HoSS was the person who made the post. Was a Cleric in the guild.

[Dalven]

You guys are all dumb cunts, this is going to RnF now

gratz

Where this passive aggressive nonsense should have begun its existence

[Swish]

Show me the post where BDA says it's unfair. BDA and Omni are just calling an exploit an exploit and neither guild wants to exploit a bug.

But, since the mods don't seem to care, go on with the rhetoric.

It's in the same thread that I called Chest out for double standards and he put his hands over his ears (ignore list etc).

What a joke lol....break a rotation of casual guilds and then complain about the raid scene 6-8 months later.

[Danth]

This thread serves as a great example of the myopia resulting from pixel sickness. Look at how many folks are riled up over some extra Dains. By all means, continue trying to deprive each other the one raid target that spawns too often on a server where everything is too rare due to non-classic variance and no restarts.


Danth

[Swish]

This thread serves as a great example of the myopia resulting from pixel sickness. Look at how many folks are riled up over some extra Dains. By all means, continue trying to deprive each other the one raid target that spawns too often on a server where everything is too rare due to non-classic variance and no restarts.


Danth

Nice side swipe at Rogean for not giving into demands for more earthquakes etc. I can see some BDA top brass coming in to praise the devs again as a counterweight.

Swish

(maybe I should start typing my name at the end of each post..)

[Sweettouch]

Nice side swipe at Rogean for not giving into demands for more earthquakes etc. I can see some BDA top brass coming in to praise the devs again as a counterweight.

Swish

(maybe I should start typing my name at the end of each post..)

You sure are obsessed with BDA,must be kekephee in disguise again

[Man0warr]

Chest/BDA doesn't give a shit about guilds attempting Ring War. Just guilds doing Ring War to spawn a Dain that shouldn't spawn (confirmed by Nilbog and GMs) and then make a post about having a "Your Failed Ring War/Your Dain" for an exploited Dain.

Dain spawning on a failure is a bug. When you expressly fail a war to spawn that Dain you are exploiting.

[Danth]

Heh Swish, a swing and a miss. I don't care about "Earthquakes." EQ in 2001 simply had a lot of server downtime and restarts and P1999 doesn't; in a sense it's a testament to P99's vastly superior stability. Lower spawn rates presumably contribute to pixel starvation, especially when those pixels are spread out among a vastly larger population of raiding characters thanks to hundreds or thousands of Chardok-leveled alts (to that end, the raiders contributed to the pixel shortage themselves!). That's the genesis of pixel sickness: Knowing you'll never have enough to sate your own hunger, and consequently seeing red when anyone else gets anything.

If the staff thought Dain was a problem, they've had months to turn off the quest. They did that with others, like the BFG guy. It's still there so why don't you guys enjoy it while you have it? Consider it a consolation prize for a severely overtuned ring war.

Danth

[Swish]

You sure are obsessed with BDA,must be kekephee in disguise again

Just reminding everyone of the double standards from the BDA machine. Take a shit on a GM backed rotation. Then Take that new Class R one in every 3 Kunark dragons guaranteed plus some R-FFA stuff, then when the GM backed changes disappear and the welfare pixels dry up, take to the forums and complain about how unfair the raid scene is to BDA.

Can't make that shit up :o

Keep spinning though...I'm sure if you moan loud enough or threaten to have 300 members log out until there's changes they'll craft you a new rotation you can do the same thing to further down the line :)

[Origin]

Just reminding everyone of the double standards from the BDA machine. Take a shit on a GM backed rotation. Then Take that new Class R one in every 3 Kunark dragons guaranteed plus some R-FFA stuff, then when the GM backed changes disappear and the welfare pixels dry up, take to the forums and complain about how unfair the raid scene is to BDA.

Can't make that shit up :o

Keep spinning though...I'm sure if you moan loud enough or threaten to have 300 members log out until there's changes they'll craft you a new rotation you can do the same thing to further down the line :)

You are an absolute retard. I can't believe more people don't tell you that on a daily basis.

[Ravager]

Just reminding everyone of the double standards from the BDA machine. Take a shit on a GM backed rotation. Then Take that new Class R one in every 3 Kunark dragons guaranteed plus some R-FFA stuff, then when the GM backed changes disappear and the welfare pixels dry up, take to the forums and complain about how unfair the raid scene is to BDA.

Can't make that shit up :o

Keep spinning though...I'm sure if you moan loud enough or threaten to have 300 members log out until there's changes they'll craft you a new rotation you can do the same thing to further down the line :)

If the GMs backed the rotation, it'd still be a thing. Apparently you can make this shit up.

[Swish]

You are an absolute retard. I can't believe more people don't tell you that on a daily basis.

BDA members will rightly hate me for pointing out the truth, I'm sorry you fell victim to their spin machine. RIP.

If you'd care to elaborate, please do. I'm not sure which part of those facts you have a problem with.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/qPDniOs.png

:)

[Detoxx]

Chest/BDA doesn't give a shit about guilds attempting Ring War. Just guilds doing Ring War to spawn a Dain that shouldn't spawn (confirmed by Nilbog and GMs) and then make a post about having a "Your Failed Ring War/Your Dain" for an exploited Dain.

Dain spawning on a failure is a bug. When you expressly fail a war to spawn that Dain you are exploiting.

Lol, not one ring war has been intentionally failed. Step away from the brainwash.

[arsenalpow]

Lol, not one ring war has been intentionally failed. Step away from the brainwash.

you had more people for your exploit Dain than you did your ringwar

[Ravager]

http://i.imgur.com/qPDniOs.png

:)

That's the mental equivalent of the Participation Ribbon handed out to First Graders on Track & Field day.

[Swish]

That's the mental equivalent of the Participation Ribbon handed out to First Graders on Track & Field day.

If you don't like the facts presented, by all means attempt a derail from BDA's sins against the server. Facts are facts though, and now that BDA are out in the cold I'm sure there'll be another attempt to form some kind of rotation.

I'm sure nobody is falling for that one again, staff included.

[Detoxx]

you had more people for your exploit Dain than you did your ringwar

This coming from the guild that killed mobs using an actual exploit and said "nbd, we kill it all the time so it's ok!"

And you were at the same "exploited" dain competing. Get over yourself, Chest.

[arsenalpow]

And you were at the same "exploited" dain competing. Get over yourself, Chest.

cool, so we both agree it's a known bug, thus an "exploit"

I'm glad we can agree on things.

[Detoxx]

cool, so we both agree it's a known bug, thus an "exploit"

I'm glad we can agree on things.

The quotes were around exploited for a reason, chest....

[Pokesan]

who were you quoting

[ArumTP]

you had more people for your exploit Dain than you did your ringwar

Or a more conventional view, 2 hours latter more people logged on due to time zone differences.

[Ravager]

If you don't like the facts presented, by all means attempt a derail from BDA's sins against the server. Facts are facts though, and now that BDA are out in the cold I'm sure there'll be another attempt to form some kind of rotation.

I'm sure nobody is falling for that one again, staff included.

Citing an internet survey as proof of intellectual prowess is like citing Donald Trump for proof that all but some of Latin American immigrants are rapists, murderers and drug dealers.

Here's a fact: your sad self has been spamming these forums with bullshit virtually all day every day for the last five years.

[arsenalpow]

Look guys, I'm not saying you didn't give it the ol' college try at the Ring War, I'm saying there's no functional way to win it currently. You can keep saying you got close, but so did the Gimpatron crew, so did BDA, so did Rampage. So, knowing that the encounter is broken (even though you keep saying it's not, even though you keep saying you're gonna win) the only reason to do it is to get the Dain at the end.

So when I see FAT attempt the ring war with one amount, then get EVEN MORE for the Dain attempt, it sets off my bullshit detector.

[Daldaen]

Fine Chest. Agree to the reasonable solution.

Any guild/alliance triggering the Ring War is banned from engaging a resulting Dain from failure. They concede any attempt at the exploit spawned Dain and therefore the only reason to run the war is for the actual war.

[Raev]

I propose a Rampage, Forsaken, Asgard, and Taken (FRAT) alliance to field 200 people and disintegrate every giant within 10 seconds of spawning. Then no one will fail, and this won't be a problem.

[Pokesan]

I propose any guild able to defeat Ring War in its current form, within a month, be empowered to raid suspend a guild of their choosing, for a month.

[arsenalpow]

Shit, it's going to be just as ridiculous when you win the ring war. Instead of Thurg getting overrun doesn't Kael get overrun? So that means two hours later you get a KT and Statue pop. That will be a shit show.

[Pokesan]

Shit, it's going to be just as ridiculous when you win the ring war. Instead of Thurg getting overrun doesn't Kael get overrun? So that means two hours later you get a KT and Statue pop. That will be a shit show.

I thought you said its unbeatable?

[Man0warr]

I thought you said its unbeatable?

It's harder than Tunare or AoW, it's not tuned.

It may be beatable if you can manage to get 150+ people without desyncing the zone, but it's not beatable under classic or normal standards. Despite 8-10 Ring War's worth of data given to Devs in beta and first months of live Velious.

[arsenalpow]

I thought you said its unbeatable?

My assumption is that it will get tuned at some point to be classic. Then it will be beatable, and the scenario I've laid out will occur (assuming zone repops don't get fixed)

[arsenalpow]

who attempted 8-10 ring wars during the first months of velious?

collectively

math!

[Pokesan]

It's harder than Tunare or AoW, it's not tuned.

It may be beatable if you can manage to get 150+ people without desyncing the zone, but it's not beatable under classic or normal standards. Despite 8-10 Ring War's worth of data given to Devs in beta and first months of live Velious.

Beating overtuned content is exploiting according to BDA.

[Ravager]

Beating overtuned content is exploiting according to BDA.

Someone's beat it now? That was fast!

[Pokesan]

Someone's beat it now? That was fast!

Come now, we're now discussing theoretical raiding, a concept your guild is intimately familiar with.

[Ravager]

Chest seems to be the only one presenting any facts about how wonky the encounter is.

[Decad]

Let's just get back to comparing Cloki's post to reality for a second because I think this was missed...

Cloki's post.



Now Reality...




Notice the date of that post. October 29th, 2011 was the first time it was completed on Druzzil. December 5th 2000 was the release date of Velious. Yet he claimed 40 did it 4 months in. I mean no offense, but the guy you are praising straight up lied.

Not here to take sides but the first ring war that was successfully completed wasn't so long either.

It was completed on May 18 2001 on Nameless, which is 5 month 13 days after launch. Check out tig post on this date. Maybe some of the top guilds on other servers finished it even sooner since Tig didn't claim it was a server wide first just a server first

http://legacyofsteel.net/#/archives

[Juevento]

most of what chest claims is a bug has been proven to be as it was on live. minus the geometry issues

That's a lie.

[arsenalpow]

And that's back in the day when the majority of players weren't even 60. It's a whole different scenario now. It's absurd to think that the ring war is the last piece of unbeaten content on p99 because players aren't good enough to beat it yet.

[Gain]

what exactly is the difference between a server first and a server wide first in regards to EQ during velious era?

Server first means first on the server you played in....server wide first is first before any other server.

[captnamazing]

Get well soon, elf men!

[Fire Beetle]

Did anyone else get out of the house today? Or was it just me?

Swish care to tell us how many miles you ran?

[Erati]

Ring war is apparently started again tonight- someone batphone Cloki

[Vianna]

Not here to take sides but the first ring war that was successfully completed wasn't so long either.

It was completed on May 18 2001 on Nameless, which is 5 month 13 days after launch. Check out tig post on this date. Maybe some of the top guilds on other servers finished it even sooner since Tig didn't claim it was a server wide first just a server first

http://legacyofsteel.net/#/archives

Server firsts and world firsts are different. The point remains Druzzil the server he claimed was being farmed with 40 in April wasn't. There was no way to do the ring war with 40 4 months into Velious.

[Vianna]

Look guys, I'm not saying you didn't give it the ol' college try at the Ring War, I'm saying there's no functional way to win it currently. You can keep saying you got close, but so did the Gimpatron crew, so did BDA, so did Rampage. So, knowing that the encounter is broken (even though you keep saying it's not, even though you keep saying you're gonna win) the only reason to do it is to get the Dain at the end.

So when I see FAT attempt the ring war with one amount, then get EVEN MORE for the Dain attempt, it sets off my bullshit detector.

Your Bullshit detector has always been broken though to be fair. You have an agenda and it's gotten ridiculous the last few years.

[Raev]

Server firsts and world firsts are different. The point remains Druzzil the server he claimed was being farmed with 40 in April wasn't. There was no way to do the ring war with 40 4 months into Velious.

I just don't understand why you are so anxious to crucify the guy as some sort of master of deception when his memory wasn't really that far off.

[Juevento]

I just don't understand why you are so anxious to crucify the guy as some sort of master of deception when his memory wasn't really that far off.

That's how the internet works. You only argue in absolutes and crucify someone when they get small details wrong.

[Decad]

no, that would be a world first.... server wide is still the same server

server first = first on server

Server wide first = in my posting equate world first.

There you go everyone.

[Decad]

server not being servers wide would make it singular therefore specific to that server. So servers wide would be all servers and a world first, server wide just means first on that server. Not that hard to comprehend really

Perhaps my description is not that great but like i said. I am just posting some facts.

Cheers all.

[Juevento]

server not being servers wide would make it singular therefore specific to that server. So servers wide would be all servers and a world first, server wide just means first on that server. Not that hard to comprehend really

Getting autistic over minute facts is also a unique facet of the Internet.

[Pokesan]

Getting autistic over minute facts is also a unique facet of the Internet.

Autistic? You mean like whining about other guilds trying to beat ring war, because you fail at FTEing a timed spawn?

[Sweettouch]

Keep exploiting and being scummy everybody! God GMs here suck

[Prismaticshop]

Keep exploiting and being scummy everybody! God GMs here suck

Stop crying you rampinity cuck

[ArumTP]

*knock* *knock*
Who's there?
BDA sitting at the icewall keep zone line to try for Dain that the profusely say is bugged and should not be touched.

[Skew]

BDA contested Dain off "bugged "ringwsr ?

[arsenalpow]

BDA contested Dain off "bugged "ringwsr ?

We considered it, pulled only 30 and audibled when we saw 100 loot starved FAT members.

[Skew]

We considered it, pulled only 30 and audibled when we saw 100 loot starved FAT members.

Very kind , keep up the good work.

and grats Giselle on your well deserved dorf head :D

[Godefroi]

So let me get this straight, BDA cries an entire week on the forum about people contesting "bugged dains", that people who do are scum, assholes and ruin the server, then show up and try to contest that encounter?

lol k.

[moss_snake_shadowknight]

So let me get this straight, BDA cries an entire week on the forum about people contesting "bugged dains", that people who do are scum, assholes and ruin the server, then show up and try to contest that encounter?

lol k.

its hard being in the best guild on the server. did we deny ur app? lol

[ridiculousmoose]

I may be misunderstanding here... but aren't you guys saying the ONLY dains that will spawn now are the 'bugged' dain's from the ring event since the 'exploiters' are doing this every day?

[Sweettouch]

I may be misunderstanding here... but aren't you guys saying the ONLY dains that will spawn now are the 'bugged' dain's from the ring event since the 'exploiters' are doing this every day?

Yup,welcome to p99. where FAT does shady shit and act superior

[Detoxx]

Yup,welcome to p99. where FAT does shady shit and act superior

Lol blame FAT even thought Rampage is the ones that tried the last 2 ring wars and we havent touched it, then BDA is grandstanding in here and decides to go for said exploited dains.

Good logic

[Sweettouch]

Lol blame FAT even thought Rampage is the ones that tried the last 2 ring wars and we havent touched it, then BDA is grandstanding in here and decides to go for said exploited dains.

Good logic

Because we totally had 100+ people on them exploited dains like you no lifes,no wonder we left after watching you all drool over pixel dick

[Detoxx]

Because we totally had 100+ people on them exploited dains like you no lifes,no wonder we left after watching you all drool over pixel dick

So you camped there not intending to kill the Dains you have claimed are exploited for a week now? Just saying hi, were you?

[ArumTP]

I may be misunderstanding here... but aren't you guys saying the ONLY dains that will spawn now are the 'bugged' dain's from the ring event since the 'exploiters' are doing this every day?

There has been 4 ring wars total spawned. Resulting in 2 extra dains than what have normally spawned. Every time a ring war occurs it moves the spawn timer window to the next time he dies +- 8 hours plus 1 week from when he dies. He has not gotten his expected weekly death due to ring wars occurring.


Because we totally had 100+ people on them exploited dains like you no lifes,no wonder we left after watching you all drool over pixel dick

You were literally one of the people camped out for dain before bailing out with 10 or 15 min left in window. You didn't have good numbers, the presumption is you went for something uncontested in VP.

[Mead]

Lol blame FAT even thought Rampage is the ones that tried the last 2 ring wars and we havent touched it, then BDA is grandstanding in here and decides to go for said exploited dains.

Good logic

Am I just not getting something correctly here or are you just using words to make it seem like something is being exploited? Isn't the current Ring War more difficult than it should be because of how bugged it is?

[Vianna]

I just don't understand why you are so anxious to crucify the guy as some sort of master of deception when his memory wasn't really that far off.

Who is crucifying ? Just fact checking. I even said Cloki might be a cool guy, but that he was straight lying about the ring war and ~40 people doing it in Velious. He just seems to have an agenda in this situation from what I have read and he lied to prove a point. I was on Druzzil Ro btw. It's why it upset me a little more than it should have I guess.

[ArumTP]

Am I just not getting something correctly here or are you just using words to make it seem like something is being exploited? Isn't the current Ring War more difficult than it should be because of how bugged it is?

Current form of ring war is very hard and has yet to be beaten, it provides the last challenge to be had on this server. It is perhaps an overtuned encounter currently, but is still believed to be beatable by FAT/Rapinity alliances.

The bug occurs after the encounter is lost, it causes a repop of dain 2 hours later after the ring war failure.

It is BDA's stance since the ring war is unbeatable by them, so it should not be triggered nor should the dain be attempted to be killed. This however has not stopped them from attempting to kill that bugged dain 2 out of the last 4 dains spawned in this manner.

Omni holds similar view, however has made no attempts to kill dain.

Guilds that have killed this dain hold the stance that 2 warlords must be killed (which represents and is a legitimate attempt to complete the ring war) to earn that dain that spawned uncontested. Failure to do so results in dain being FFA.

BDA and Omni expect the dain to be left up and not killed by any guild that attempted the ring war and failed. Presumably so that they get the dain uncontested, as they have no apparent intentions to even try a ring war at this time.

[arsenalpow]

Current form of ring war is very hard and has yet to be beaten, it provides the last challenge to be had on this server. It is perhaps an overtuned encounter currently, but is still believed to be beatable by FAT/Rapinity alliances.

The bug occurs after the encounter is lost, it causes a repop of dain 2 hours later after the ring war failure.

It is BDA's stance since the ring war is unbeatable by them, so it should not be triggered nor should the dain be attempted to be killed. This however has not stopped them from attempting to kill that bugged dain 2 out of the last 4 dains spawned in this manner.

Omni holds similar view, however has made no attempts to kill dain.

Guilds that have killed this dain hold the stance that 2 warlords must be killed (which represents and is a legitimate attempt to complete the ring war) to earn that dain that spawned uncontested. Failure to do so results in dain being FFA.

BDA and Omni expect the dain to be left up and not killed by any guild that attempted the ring war and failed. Presumably so that they get the dain uncontested, as they have no apparent intentions to even try a ring war at this time.

Please don't twist my views. My thoughts are that since the ring war is fundamentally unwinnable (and that means unwinnable by everyone, not just BDA) that guilds shouldn't be triggering ring wars period until the encounter is properly tuned.

[Daldaen]

Failure to kill 2 Warlords, making the Dain FFA, still makes it a completely cluster, desynch fest. So you could still fail it on purpose and get a shot at an FFA Dain, which is retarded under the current suggestion.

Guilds spawning the war need to not go after the Dain to provide 0 incentive to purposefully failing a war. Also to reduce the amount of competing guilds on the resulting Dain, reducing the chance of a cluster/desynch.

Again, Chest, suggesting an overtuned event not be engaged because you believe it to be unwinnable is equally retarded. Just because you don't think it can be won does not mean everyone should stop doing it. The only thing that should stop is guilds triggering the war and going after the resulting Dain if you failed.

A very simple agreement that could be made if the Raid Discussion forum had active leadership from each guild rather than a relic that hasn't had permissions adjusted in over a year.

[Nibblewitz]

http://i.imgur.com/z39xFHe.png

[Prismaticshop]

Off with the BDA thundercunts, take this to RnF!

[Pan]

Arum, don't presume to speak for Omni.

We were the first to try the ringwar on this server (with our allies and other people who showed up to help). It was buggy as hell.

We're very interested in trying it again when the third wave can be checked and held with melee aggro - as it should be. (Assuming that the giants/corpses/summoned under the world are either fixed or accounted for by an on-site GM).

We are not interested in picking of a Dain that shouldn't be spawning. And that's the genesis and nexus of my posts in the raid forum.

All tuning mechanics aside, that Dain puts the raid guilds on the server in an untenable situation. Specifically:

They have asked us not to exploit bugs.
They have called the failed-war Dain a bug. (Which, by definition, would make killing him an exploit.)
Upon spawning, this buggy Dain precludes a legitimate Dain from spawning.
Some raid guilds have chosen to kill the buggy Dain (leaving out all arguments or intent-to-spawn here intentionally).

The upshot of this is that those guilds who choose to kill the buggy Dain are at risk of sanction by the staff. And historically on this server, in my opinion, the rules are enforced fairly inconsistently. That, to me, means that it's not implausible for someone on the staff to wake up, realize that something that they've called a bug is being exploited (for whatever reasons - justifyable or not), and then issue bans/suspensions/dissoulutions/whatever the caprice of the moment dictates. It's entirely possible that could happen. And a defensible argument could be made for it.

The situation is both untenable and needless. A simple word...or serial DTs and resets...from the staff is all it would take to put this matter to rest. As it stands, those who choose not to compete for that Dain are losing opportunities - while those who do are assuming a rather hefty but absolutely unknown risk. And there's no reason for it.

[ArumTP]

We are not interested in picking of a Dain that shouldn't be spawning. And that's the genesis and nexus of my posts in the raid forum.



In the absence of GM intervention it is up to the players to resolve issues.

Guilds came up with a working solution to deal with dains spawning after a failed ring war. The solution was to reduce the mess of people training wiping lagging mess trying for a dain and to prevent guilds from purposely failing a ring war.

Your guild chooses to not participate in any killing of dain or attempting any ring war. You clearly don't want anything to do with it. Why bother posting? The purpose of the post was how to come up with workable solutions for guilds wanting dains/ringwars. Not guilds proselytizing about content they don't do.

[Pan]

All raiding guilds want Dains and ring wars. Some guilds don't want buggy Dains. That point is perfectly germane to the conversation.

Just because I think the war isn't worth trying again until the 3rd wave is check-able doesn't mean I want to prevent others from trying it.

I agree that players should resolve issues - absent GM intervention or not.

What I take issue with here is that I don't think that players getting together to determine the most convenient, workable (least laggy) way to kill a target that spawns because of a recognized bug falls into that category. This isn't an issue that players need to resolve. This one is on the staff. A single sentence: it's okay to kill that buggy Dain and you're welcome to figure out something workable.

I bother posting because we're interested in Dain. I bother posting because I want to point out, loudly, that I don't think that this issue is one for the players to determine. We've been given our orders: don't kill buggy shit.

I bother posting because I want the staff to stand behind what they've asked us to do - or ask us to do something that requires no intervention from them at all. I bother posting because I think that this is a larger issue than a buggy Dain. I don't like the caprice of the Sword of Damocles set up by this situation for some - and I don't like the opportunity cost that the other side incurs.

[Erati]

so long as Ring War is triggered no more than once per week then this has no affect on the total Dains the server should b seeing as "buggy" Dain is the real guy aka affects spawn time.

only do 1 Ring War per week til fixed n its like theres no bug - just 2 Hr spawn time for Dain instead of 16 Hr variance

[Mead]

It seems like there are people legitimately looking to resolve this issue. It sounds like the leaders of each guild just need to get together on your own and figure it out like adults. The question is do people actually want to and aren't just pretending to want to find a resolution on the forums in order to snipe some Dains to fulfill pixel lust.

[arsenalpow]

so long as Ring War is triggered no more than once per week then this has no affect on the total Dains the server should b seeing as "buggy" Dain is the real guy aka affects spawn time.

only do 1 Ring War per week til fixed n its like theres no bug - just 2 Hr spawn time for Dain instead of 16 Hr variance

I like that resolution, as opposed to the collusion to exploit a buggy ring war for the purpose of extra dains

[Culkasi]

I like that resolution, as opposed to the collusion to exploit a buggy ring war for the purpose of extra dains

What time then? Who gets to attempt the ring war? Again, we are trying to take advantage of an exploit, because pixels > all. Lets not fall into that trap.

[Daldaen]

Again.

Guild triggering war cannot engage exploit Dain. Then we have no issues.

No guilds on this server are willing to give free mobs to their competition. They won't trigger wars unless they think they have real shots on it. No guilds have real shots unless they ally up in its current state.

[Vianna]

Please don't twist my views. My thoughts are that since the ring war is fundamentally unwinnable (and that means unwinnable by everyone, not just BDA) that guilds shouldn't be triggering ring wars period until the encounter is properly tuned.

The ring war seems pretty consistent to what I recall from live. The last wave problem that I see is that you have to damage the mobs to around 96% and stay in mellee range to stop them from running. On live you didn't have to damage them that low. You did have to damage them and stay in mellee range though. There are ways to control that if you are making sure every mob gets slowed though. Plenty of Monk and Warriors have been at these attempts.

[ArumTP]

No guilds on this server are willing to give free mobs to their competition. They won't trigger wars unless they think they have real shots on it.

Legitimate shots are being taken, despite what the BDA spin machine spews. Nobody is going to give a dain away for free regardless how it spawns.

[Swish]

im amazed people still apply

[Ravager]

im amazed people still apply

With all the bullshit that you spew, you're our best recruiter.

[Man0warr]

The ring war seems pretty consistent to what I recall from live. The last wave problem that I see is that you have to damage the mobs to around 96% and stay in mellee range to stop them from running. On live you didn't have to damage them that low. You did have to damage them and stay in mellee range though. There are ways to control that if you are making sure every mob gets slowed though. Plenty of Monk and Warriors have been at these attempts.

That's not even the worst part of it. Check my logs I posted - the giant's AC in all waves is higher than Avatar of War. My 50 damage 2-hander was hitting for mid 100s max in a 5 min parse - it normally tops out at about 310 with max strength. Thus is requires an abormal amount of players to kill the final wave before it can reach Thurgadin - and since they don't stop due to aggro or melee range (and resist root/snare) it's been a failure every attempt. Maybe if you got 150 people there you could win it but the event already puts a lot of strain on the zone so I'd imagine that would result in desynchs.

[Swish]

With all the bullshit that you spew, you're our best recruiter.

I like how the truth can be called "bullshit" in BDAs eyes.

I mean Chest can't take any more and has put his hands to his ears which says a lot about a delusional guild with delusional ambitions. You can't and won't be able to outfit a roster that size on the small helping of pixels you're getting....

Chest: "la la la la la la la - I can't hear you! La la la la!"

[Ravager]

As proven by what? All the BDA started RNF threads? Take the death of your guild with maturity and stop trying to drag the rest of the server into the BDA implosion.

Speaking from experience are you? Should I take a cue from you and adopt a new forum tag to cut all ties with my past as well?

[Swish]

Honestly you can't make it up...BDA tried to pin the rotation collapse on Divinity while we all know that's not true.

Don't mind me...I'm just here to remind everyone what a bunch of scumlords are in that guild and while there's good people with good intentions as well, they'll sadly soon turn and offer 12k for rezzes in PoF to "help" a community member in need.

What does "community" mean to them anyway? :/

[Ravager]

Honestly you can't make it up...BDA tried to pin the rotation collapse on Divinity while we all know that's not true.

Link that post.

[Juevento]

Uninformed deflection won't help you now. What you call bullshit is actually the truth. Take chest's nuts out of your mouth and stop believing everything he tells you.

How yah doin Lazie? Still extra frothy I see.

[Ravager]

See you on your new handle tomorrow, sorry this one didn't work out for you. Someday you'll have a respectable name, though maybe not unless you lay off the homosexual insults.

[Pokesan]

how is this not in RNF?

pourin out a 40 for my homie Sikorsky, miss you buddy

[Man0warr]

Honestly you can't make it up...BDA tried to pin the rotation collapse on Divinity while we all know that's not true.


Nah pretty sure any post you'll find it was pinned on a few smaller Class R guilds who were exploiting loopholes in the rotation rules.

[Swish]

Link that post.

I'm not your PA, search for it...its there.

Words along the lines of "Divinity have said they're no longer respecting the rotation so neither are we".

Sorry that history isn't your friend. Conduct yourselves better in future.

[Swish]

Nah pretty sure any post you'll find it was pinned on a few smaller Class R guilds who were exploiting loopholes in the rotation rules.

So rather than address it you decided to collapse the whole thing and reconstruct it to take 1 in 3 of each Kunark dragon (plus some in the FFA tier)...what a sign of BDA led community cohesion.

When did BDA last run a community event? The last thing anyone pointed out to me was Filbus and someone did some roleplay in the EC tunnel.

yikes

Thank the good lord for Omni, they'll light the way to a better community.

[Ravager]

Nah pretty sure any post you'll find it was pinned on a few smaller Class R guilds who were exploiting loopholes in the rotation rules.

I'm not your PA, search for it...its there.

Words along the lines of "Divinity have said they're no longer respecting the rotation so neither are we".

Sorry that history isn't your friend. Conduct yourselves better in future.

You can't do it because it doesn't exist. Thanks for proving nobody can take your word for anything.

[Ravager]

Telling you take chest's balls out of your mouth wasn't homophobic. It was a remark on the fact that you ignorantly seem to believe everything he tells you. Why would I need a new account? I'm sorry but you claiming I'm someone I'm not doesn't require any action on my part, however it does exemplify the desperation BDA must be feeling.

How does it feel to be in a guild who rutinely has to settle for woushi and faydedar as raid targets since anything more challenging is apparently out of reach?

Well, for a guy who's been here since October, you sure did drink the Swish koolaid quick.

[Ravager]

how is this not in RNF?

pourin out a 40 for my homie Sikorsky, miss you buddy

The mods are on holiday.

[Swish]

You can't do it because it doesn't exist. Thanks for proving nobody can take your word for anything.

wow I made that easy for you... just because you can't be bothered to look for it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Sorry that history wasn't kind to BDA, conduct yourselves better in future and you might repair that bad rep. I'd personally say there needs to be another breakaway group looking to do positive things rather than continuing to swim in that mire...

[Ravager]

wow I made that easy for you... just because you can't be bothered to look for it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Sorry that history wasn't kind to BDA, conduct yourselves better in future and you might repair that bad rep. I'd personally say there needs to be another breakaway group looking to do positive things rather than continuing to swim in that mire...

And if you can't be bothered to look for it that means it's there? How convenient.

Swish goes to bed every night wearing a diaper so he doesn't wet his bed. There are pictures in RnF, trust me.

[Swish]

And if you can't be bothered to look for it that means it's there? How convenient.

Swish goes to bed every night wearing a diaper so he doesn't wet his bed. There are pictures in RnF, trust me.

He can't defend it so resorts to a personal insult, reverting to the BDA handbook as expected. Please issue a warning for trolling outside RNF.

[Ravager]

Keep searching, it's there. Just do a search along the lines of "Piss-Stain Swish", you'll find it eventually.

[Swish]

Keep searching, it's there. Just do a search along the lines of "Piss-Stain Swish", you'll find it eventually.

stay classy pal

[Ravager]

stay classy pal

It must be exhausting to always have to get the last word in an argument you've lost.

[Swish]

It must be exhausting to always have to get the last word in an argument you've lost.

Suddenly this feels like a WoW forum. 2/10.

Not going through 100s of pages to prove BDA shit on the rotation, its common knowledge.

[Ravager]

Suddenly this feels like a WoW forum. 2/10.

Not going through 100s of pages to prove BDA shit on the rotation, its common knowledge.

You said it was a simple search. Must not be so simple for you if you can't find it. I'm not asking for 100's of pages, I'm asking for the specific one you said exists where BDA blames the rotation breaking up on Divinity. You can put it to bed right now if it exists. It doesn't because you lied. I'm just calling a liar a liar.

[Swish]

You're just refusing to take my word for it. I never said "simple"... for those that want to look its out there. I even gave a rough rendition of what was said. Not bad considering how long ago it was now.

Terrible conduct from a terrible guild, and you're breaking the BDA code of conduct (lol) for your attitude on the forums. Should I report you or would you like to turn yourself in now?

[Swish]

I should also add you had me on ignore...I'm sad that you've relapsed into this :o

[Ravager]

You're just refusing to take my word for it. I never said "simple"... for those that want to look its out there. I even gave a rough rendition of what was said. Not bad considering how long ago it was now.

Terrible conduct from a terrible guild, and you're breaking the BDA code of conduct (lol) for your attitude on the forums. Should I report you or would you like to turn yourself in now?

Why should I take your word for it when I know it doesn't exist? What is your word worth? 1/3 of your posts are rhetoric, 1/3 gifs and memes, 1/3 red propaganda in the wrong forums. You have 0 credibility.

These forums would be 50% more readable if they just banned you. Nobody would have to correct your lies.

[Swish]

You have credibility though? You're rustled and angry in half your posts and are dragging the community through the mud (take the last 2 pages for example).

Make a new year's resolution to be more positive, for your own sake. If you'd like to take a step in the right direction I'd start with looking for a new guild :o

yikes, its RustleMania in here.

[Ravager]

You can have the last word or as many more as you think you need. Your lies are exposed.

[Swish]

Great attempt to save BDA from historical truths but your reputation remains in tact I'm afraid :o

I hope Chest gives you some loot council pixels, you know.."for effort" ;)

[Arteker]

Pan with this gem

"We're all better players, better geared, and better mechanically than we were on live. And we were doing it 4 months in with ~40 people on Druzzil."



I don't remember anyone doing a Ring War with 40 when Velious was the current content. Sounds like someone is pandering.

druzzil ro sucked , minus jerry springer forums, they where decent.

[Axlrose]

@reads through this thread...

And here I have been content when my silk swatch and pattern successfully combine to increase my meager armor from cloth to raw silk.

Good thing I am in no hurry to get into the high end game here.

[Relbaic]

Great attempt to save BDA from historical truths but your reputation remains in tact I'm afraid :o

I hope Chest gives you some loot council pixels, you know.."for effort" ;)

Why are you so concerned with how we operate as a guild?

Also Ravager would actually have to raid to receive any loot!

[thufir]

@reads through this thread...

And here I have been content when my silk swatch and pattern successfully combine to increase my meager armor from cloth to raw silk.

Good thing I am in no hurry to get into the high end game here.

It's actually fine. Usually people posting in threads like these are the people who care deeply about either acquiring the highest end pixels or who exactly is collecting them (even if they have no stake in it, for reasons I can't quite determine - closest analogy would be hoping the Yankees lose the pennant again, I think). Most people here are super friendly in my experience.

I am mildly surprised that this thread hasn't been bumped to RnF though. Moderators probably having a good weekend or something like that.

[Man0warr]

So rather than address it you decided to collapse the whole thing and reconstruct it to take 1 in 3 of each Kunark dragon (plus some in the FFA tier)...what a sign of BDA led community cohesion.


BDA/Taken/Div did try to address it privately in the Class R forums for months, and then when no one could agree on changes, publicly for like a month or two. That obviously didn't work, so the rotation ended a couple months early - Velious was doing away with it anyways and everyone knew that.

[mgellan]

Nah pretty sure any post you'll find it was pinned on a few smaller Class R guilds who were exploiting loopholes in the rotation rules.

Here's some history for you from an actual participant:

"Exploting" was definitely the rationale of the 3 largest Class R Guilds that presented the smaller Guilds with a draconian new ruleset for Class R with repeated ultimatums threatening to break the rotation - "they are exploiting the Class R model". They felt that smaller Guilds assisting each other with kills that they might not be able to take down 24/7 was "exploiting" and wanted to lock those Guilds out of the pixels that they wanted.

I think the smaller Guilds on the other hand felt that since the mobs were already allocated to a Guild in the rotation, assisting other Guilds wasn't reducing the mobs available to anyone else, and sharing in the loot wasn't reducing the loot available to everyone else. So not "exploiting" at all. The Big3 needed to be Class C anyways.

I don't think Divinity was more than a willing participant in the three Guild-led ruleset change to greedily snag extra pixels for themselves in a BDA/Taken/Divinity rotation. They were probably kicking themselves afterwards since when things settled down and CSG worked out how to coordinate three Guilds at a raid, it was pretty much on a rotation of BDA - Taken - Casual Scum Guilds (Omni/AG/Europa) and they didn't get a lot of mobs for quite a while.

Just some perspective. The rotation fell apart because the three biggest Class R Guilds were greedily coveting the slots of the smaller Guilds, wanted to lock them out if they couldn't kill the mobs solo 24/7, and the smaller Guilds told them to go to hell.

Regards,
Mg

[Man0warr]

"Exploting" was definitely the rationale of the 3 largest Class R Guilds that presented the smaller Guilds with a draconian new ruleset for Class R with repeated ultimatums threatening to break the rotation - "they are exploiting the Class R model". They felt that smaller Guilds assisting each other with kills that they might not be able to take down 24/7 was "exploiting" and wanted to lock those Guilds out of the pixels that they wanted.

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation.

It doesn't matter at this point though. Easier to blame BDA than realizing all the guilds were to blame, large and small.

[Swish]

BDA/Taken/Div did try to address it privately in the Class R forums for months, and then when no one could agree on changes, publicly for like a month or two. That obviously didn't work, so the rotation ended a couple months early - Velious was doing away with it anyways and everyone knew that.

Arguably the "changes" weren't supposed to be agreed on, the architects knew nobody was agreeing. In fact you could argue strongly that "proposal" and "ultimatium" were the same thing.

Look what happened, way more pixels for BDA and Taken to the point where the casual guilds didn't bother contesting someone else's "turn" at Dragon X or Y.

From that perspective, very well written and worked out nicely, didn't it?

[Swish]

Why are you so concerned with how we operate as a guild?

I'm just here to provide that reality check you guys seem to need re: history, damage done to the casual raid scene, and casual guilds themselves (RIP Moonlight Crusaders etc).

And with all that, and having consumed 1 in 3 Class R Kunark dragons... the backdrop for Velious hasn't been so giving. Now you have an inflated roster to gear out and less pixels to do it with...and you want changes to the raid scene because it's not going your way anymore?

Honestly, wake up. Chest still has his fingers in his ears to all of this, maybe you can save him.

[jcr4990]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

[mgellan]

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

[Nibblewitz]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

That's only half of it; Swish is now exploiting RnF for post count.

[falkun]

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

The only necessity to get on the rotation list was to ask in raid discussion to be added (which you were then added at the bottom of the list). No guild had to "prove" they could kill any raid target to get on that target's list.

The big three believed if that you should only take up the slots you could solo kill (so if it took 3 guilds to kill, that became a single entity), while the smaller guilds believed they had the right to join for certain targets but not others. The problem being the "big three" were listed once per mob, while an alliance would get to kill it every time a member came up, so a 3-guild alliance (for some mobs) would get to kill the mob thrice as often as "the big three", barring lockouts.

[Swish]

The big three

They were certainly big. Why should the biggest zerg guilds have dictated what was and wasn't achievable?

"Hey guys, we're taking 90 to Trakanon... why u strugglin?"

The emphasis was of course meant to be on the "casual" side of things, not what TMO etc could manage.

[Ravager]

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

Letting it go Class R FFA as was built into the rotation wasn't an option?

[mgellan]

The only necessity to get on the rotation list was to ask in raid discussion to be added (which you were then added at the bottom of the list). No guild had to "prove" they could kill any raid target to get on that target's list.

They had to kill it to stay on the list, the spreadsheet even had a different color for that scenario...

The problem being the "big three" were listed once per mob, while an alliance would get to kill it every time a member came up, so a 3-guild alliance (for some mobs) would get to kill the mob thrice as often as "the big three", barring lockouts.

So what? If three guilds kill mobs in their respective slots does not 1/3 1/3 1/3 add up to one?

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

Letting it go Class R FFA as was built into the rotation wasn't an option?

Sure. Of course then the Big3 would whine that the Guild wasn't capable of killing the mob and want to push them out of the spot for moar pixels. Of course the ultimatums formalized that.

Regards,
Mg

[Ravager]

Sure. Of course then the Big3 would whine that the Guild wasn't capable of killing the mob and want to push them out of the spot for moar pixels. Of course the ultimatums formalized that.

Regards,
Mg

Why would they do that? They'd be getting more pixels and be on lockout, you can always hope for a better window next time.

[Relbaic]

I'm just here to provide that reality check you guys seem to need re: history, damage done to the casual raid scene, and casual guilds themselves (RIP Moonlight Crusaders etc).

And with all that, and having consumed 1 in 3 Class R Kunark dragons... the backdrop for Velious hasn't been so giving. Now you have an inflated roster to gear out and less pixels to do it with...and you want changes to the raid scene because it's not going your way anymore?

Honestly, wake up. Chest still has his fingers in his ears to all of this, maybe you can save him.

If your goal here was to provide that reality check then you wouldn't throw comments around such as

Make a new year's resolution to be more positive, for your own sake. If you'd like to take a step in the right direction I'd start with looking for a new guild

since you have absolutely zero idea what actually goes on in the guild. You take what you read in RnF as gospel and refuse to acknowledge anything any one in BDA has to say as factual. Where is your outrage at Taken and Divinity for wanting to dissolve the rotation as well? Everything you spew is anti-BDA when the fact is 50% of this entire server is shit yet you refuse to acknowledge any of it's problems besides what BDA does/doesn't do.

Try actually opening your eyes to the fact that this server has plenty of issues and not nearly as many as you think are BDAs fault.

[falkun]

So what? If three guilds kill mobs in their respective slots does not 1/3 1/3 1/3 add up to one?

Regards,
Mg

The rotation went more like this:
Asgard (arbitrary start, with help from Azure Guard, Europa)
Bregan D`Aerth
Omni (with help from Indignation)
Azure Guard (with help from Asgard, Europa)
Taken
Indignation (with help from Omni)
Divinity
Europa (with help from Azure Guard, Asgard)


Yes I'd need to go a bit further, but you see how it quickly develops that Asgard, Azure Guard, Europa (alliance1) and Omni and Indignation (alliance2) (not historically accurate, but demonstrates my point) are killing mobs two or three times as often as guilds that kill their rotation targets solo. BDA could have cashed in on this by making guilds <Bregan>, <D`>, and <Aerth>, but we didn't. We felt that alliances should play to similar moral standards. How many solo kills did Omni have during the rotation?

[Ravager]

since you have absolutely zero idea what actually goes on in the guild. You take what you read in RnF as gospel and refuse to acknowledge anything any one in BDA has to say as factual.

He spreads 90% of the RnF lies, of course he's gonna preach it. He's already been called out as a liar. He has 0 credibility. Virtually everything he posts can be discarded without a thought.

[arsenalpow]

Sure. Of course then the Big3 would whine that the Guild wasn't capable of killing the mob and want to push them out of the spot for moar pixels. Of course the ultimatums formalized that.

Regards,
Mg

Man you got brainwashed. If the big 3 guilds wanted "moar pixels" then there wouldn't have been a rotation in the first place which of course is the only reason Omni exists, a splinter guild created for the sole purpose of using the rotation to get kills. Keep on doing your thing though, I'm sure Cloki's 5th twink could use some epics, like his ranger or Gats' level 24 wizard y'all decided to epic. I guess it's dire straights over there anyways seeing that Gats took off, he must have run out of twinks to gear.

[zanderklocke]

The rotation went more like this:
Asgard (arbitrary start, with help from Azure Guard, Europa)
Bregan D`Aerth
Omni (with help from Indignation)
Azure Guard (with help from Asgard, Europa)
Taken
Indignation (with help from Omni)
Divinity
Europa (with help from Azure Guard, Asgard)


Yes I'd need to go a bit further, but you see how it quickly develops that Asgard, Azure Guard, Europa (alliance1) and Omni and Indignation (alliance2) (not historically accurate, but demonstrates my point) are killing mobs two or three times as often as guilds that kill their rotation targets solo. BDA could have cashed in on this by making guilds <Bregan>, <D`>, and <Aerth>, but we didn't. We felt that alliances should play to similar moral standards. How many solo kills did Omni have during the rotation?

Hey! You forgot A-Team. I think we did the bulk of our kills solo though except for a few bad hour Gorenaires.

[Daldaen]

Basically the issue was that guilds who allied very frequently didn't share slots in the rotation except for Gorrnaire which no one cared about.

On VS and Trakanon and CT and Inny, most every guild occupied a solo slot on the rotation, and smaller guilds who were incapable of solo killing most of these mobs during the majority of hours in the day, were able to team up, only 1 guild drops to bottom of rotation and then team up again when the other guild was up top. This lead to a situation where two equally sized forces... Guild A + Guild B = Guild C in total characters at raids.... Had Guild A+Guild B alliance killing mobs twice as often as Guild C.

Not because the small guilds were superior in quality of characters or strategy, or because the larger guild was a Zerg. Simply because alliancing didn't drop you to the bottom of the rotation if you were allying when your slot wasn't up yet.

The rotation went through many iterations of dumbness. But the ending of it was quite equally dumb.

Edit: how is this not RNF yet???

[arsenalpow]

Basically the issue was that guilds who allied very frequently didn't share slots in the rotation except for Gorrnaire which no one cared about.

On VS and Trakanon and CT and Inny, most every guild occupied a solo slot on the rotation, and smaller guilds who were incapable of solo killing most of these mobs during the majority of hour of the day, were able to team up, only 1 guild drops to bottom of rotation and then team up again when the other guild was up top. This lead to a situation where two equally sized forces... Guild A + Guild B = Guild C in total characters at raids.... Had Guild A+Guild B alliance killing mobs twice as often as Guild C.

Not because the small guilds were superior in quality of characters or strategy, or because the larger guild was a Zerg. Simply because alliancing didn't drop you to the bottom of the rotation if you were allying when your slot wasn't up yet.

Edit: how is this not RNF yet???

Which is why the bigger 3 guilds wanted change, we offered new rules, the small guilds told us to go pound sand, and class R FFA became a thing. I guess that's exactly the same thing as BDA ruined the server though.

[Ravager]

They didn't get the facts straight the first time, they won't get them right this time.

[Raev]

alliance1 ... alliance2 ... alliance3

This is a bit of an exaggeration. I seem to remember BDA and The A-Team helping each other on early morning Trakanons. So BDA was definitely playing the alliance game as well, although probably not as much. On my (very short) second stint as the guild leader, I was actually trying to ally with multiple guilds. Did not go as planned!

the small guilds told us to go pound sand

I still think the A-Team's counter proposal was pretty good, and BDA just wanted an excuse to break the rotation. Oh well, water over the dam now. I am curious, though, whether the staff would have preserved the R/C system in some way if the rotation was still going.

[arsenalpow]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. I seem to remember BDA and The A-Team helping each other on early morning Trakanons. So BDA was definitely playing the alliance game as well, although probably not as much. On my (very short) second stint as the guild leader, I was actually trying to ally with multiple guilds. Did not go as planned!



I still think the A-Team's counter proposal was pretty good, and BDA just wanted an excuse to break the rotation. Oh well, water over the dam now. I am curious, though, whether the staff would have preserved the R/C system in some way if the rotation was still going.

Eh I think that Trak situation happened maybe one time. I think someone else was piloting Raev because I remember people texting talking about how bad the monking was, accidentally dragging Trak down onto the raid at the cubby multiple times lol.

[Juryiel]

The thing with agreements is, if both sides of the agreement are not benefiting in some way that is reasonable to them the agreement will collapse and pointing fingers will just waste your time.

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

But being the big fish in the small pond I guess gives you a sense of power and entitlement in negotiations since maybe you're giving up hypothetically more and getting a smaller benefit, and I get that. But hey at least it's prepared BDA for Velious mobilization and racing with Forsaken and Rampage as you claimed right? Right? :D

[arsenalpow]

The thing with agreements is, if both sides of the agreement are not benefiting in some way that is reasonable to them the agreement will collapse and pointing fingers will just waste your time.

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

But being the big fish in the small pond I guess gives you a sense of power and entitlement in negotiations since maybe you're giving up hypothetically more and getting a smaller benefit, and I get that. But hey at least it's prepared BDA for Velious mobilization and racing with Forsaken and Rampage as you claimed right? Right? :D

What mobilization? If you want a Velious target you need to be willing to sock for up to 16 hours with a raid sitting at character select. ToV mobs are pulled in under a minute to the entrance or west or HoT exit. Kael mobs are literally snap pulled with coth and a TL box, train to EW and a peel to WL. That's not mobilzation like an earthquake. That's hardcore sock power.

[Man0warr]

I am curious, though, whether the staff would have preserved the R/C system in some way if the rotation was still going.

Doubtful - Sirken and Rogean were hinting at the Class system dissolving when Velious launched early on when talking about it. Their thinking being that more targets = no one gets locked completely out of the raid scene which is mostly correct.

[Juryiel]

What mobilization? If you want a Velious target you need to be willing to sock for up to 16 hours with a raid sitting at character select. ToV mobs are pulled in under a minute to the entrance or west or HoT exit. Kael mobs are literally snap pulled with coth and a TL box, train to EW and a peel to WL. That's not mobilzation like an earthquake. That's hardcore sock power.

But that's what breaking the rotation was meant to prepare people for right? Competing for mobs? (maybe mobilization was the wrong word). Sorry just messing around haha, it was just one of the more absurd arguments to come out of ending the rotation and it always made me chuckle. :)

Doubtful - Sirken and Rogean were hinting at the Class system dissolving when Velious launched early on when talking about it. Their thinking being that more targets = no one gets locked completely out of the raid scene which is mostly correct.

They might have kept it. They said they were still considering it fairly close to release. We'll never know I guess but it's not like the class system was worth while. The only good thing about it was the cooperation and not socking of the rotation. The rest of the system was basically not very good.

[Juevento]

The rest of the system was basically not very good.

Honestly curious as to what specifically you think was problematic with the C/R system?

[Juryiel]

Honestly curious as to what specifically you think was problematic with the C/R system?

I think when R has like 10 guilds and not rotating mobs, we still have to sock just as much as adding just 2 more guilds into the mix, but for far fewer targets. And socking is basically the one thing I don't like about this server's raiding. I am willing to trade shots at targets if there is no socking, but I am not interested in BOTH having to sock AND having limited targets.

This system works well if you are one of the bigger guilds in Class R because you will almost always get your socked target, but smaller guilds won't fare as well and will have to sock a lot, and limit the shots they take at targets when those targets are not R / FFA

[Raev]

Eliminating variance on R mobs would have been huge.

[arsenalpow]

Variance really needs to be cut by some amount and we need to get earthquakes back in. At least one a month would be very helpful.

[Ravager]

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a couple months of negotiations before the ultimatum was made? And wasn't the ultimatum made because the other guilds didn't want to negotiate anything and continue business as usual? I still feel bad for Anichek about all the time he wasted.

[Juryiel]

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a couple months of negotiations before the ultimatum was made? And wasn't the ultimatum made because the other guilds didn't want to negotiate anything and continue business as usual? I still feel bad for Anichek about all the time he wasted.

I did not see the months of negotiations so I won't speak to that, but it's not the ultimatum that's the biggest problem there. It's the terms. If the terms in these negotiations included stuff like the gatekeeper mobs that were harder than the actual mobs they were gating, and really shortened kill windows on engages / kills like the version of the proposal that was made public, then of course these terms will be rejected by smaller guilds even if you debate them for months.

But I don't know what was in the other proposals. It seems odd that previous proposals would be more reasonable though and the one right before the rotation ended would be the least reasonable one (because that one was not very reasonable from my eyes as a member of a smaller guild, even if I do appreciate the issues with fairer allocation of rotation slots that the big guilds were concerned about). So I'm going to assume previous proposals were yet worse for smaller guilds.

[arsenalpow]

I did not see the months of negotiations so I won't speak to that, but it's not the ultimatum that's the biggest problem there. It's the terms. If the terms in these negotiations included stuff like the gatekeeper mobs that were harder than the actual mobs they were gating, and really shortened kill windows on engages / kills like the version of the proposal that was made public, then of course these terms will be rejected by smaller guilds even if you debate them for months.

But I don't know what was in the other proposals. It seems odd that previous proposals would be more reasonable though and the one right before the rotation ended would be the least reasonable one (because that one was not very reasonable from my eyes as a member of a small guild, even if I do appreciate the issues with fairer allocation of rotation slots that the big guilds were concerned about). So I'm going to assume previous proposals were yet worse for smaller guilds.

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

[Swish]

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

TL;DR - BDA wanted more pixels and found methods to do it. Honestly there was no intention of sharing with smaller guilds. You had to embrace the zerg herd mentality or get nothing at all.

Personally I think the "rules" should have been written by the staff, or to suit the smallest capable guild... not the largest.

[Juryiel]

The first list of gatekeeper mobs was considered too tough, Sirken eventually signed off on the list but by then the smaller guilds were never going to accept any of the other changes (ally for one means you ally for all, etc) BDA and specifically Anichek put a lot of time into finding a better system but it was quickly shot down, months is probably a stretch.

I'm not sure what people would have done but my sense from talking to my own leadership is that there was in fact appreciation for the aspect of sharing rotation slots. For example I personally supported this idea (you are one rotation entity for everything) and people in my guild's leadership I spoke with about it seemed receptive to that.

I obviously can't speak to what people would have actually done or what other guilds thought.

My personal ideal way would just be to have a 'rotation entity' require to solo kill a mob in a race to get on rotation (you can try as often as you like) and then you can bring whoever you want on future attempts. And that a guild cannot be part of multiple 'rotation entities'. People seemed receptive to this, but very up-in-arms against the other stuff with gatekeepers and kill windows that made the rotation feel like a sockfest anyway. The proposal seemed to remove the 'casual' aspect of R while retaining the limited number of targets of R.

[mgellan]

Man you got brainwashed. If the big 3 guilds wanted "moar pixels" then there wouldn't have been a rotation in the first place which of course is the only reason Omni exists, a splinter guild created for the sole purpose of using the rotation to get kills. Keep on doing your thing though, I'm sure Cloki's 5th twink could use some epics, like his ranger or Gats' level 24 wizard y'all decided to epic. I guess it's dire straights over there anyways seeing that Gats took off, he must have run out of twinks to gear.

Given I have member ID card #00004 I think I know why Omni was formed :) And the summary is "We decline to implicitly condone Chest's behaviour by continuing to wear the BDA tag". But I'm sure your fantasy plays well in the BDA echo chamber so feel free to keep saying it as if it's true!

Thanks for doing your part to keep "Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni" at the top of the New Posts search tho :)

Regards,
Mg

[Ravager]

TL;DR - BDA wanted more pixels and found methods to do it. Honestly there was no intention of sharing with smaller guilds. You had to embrace the zerg herd mentality or get nothing at all.

Personally I think the "rules" should have been written by the staff, or to suit the smallest capable guild... not the largest.

TL;DR Swish was leading the Alliance of Welfare Pixels to pad out the rotation and make rent. It's okay Swish, maybe Platlord will give you better rates for trying.

[Juevento]

Given I have member ID card #00004

Don't keep score.

[arsenalpow]

Given I have member ID card #00004 I think I know why Omni was formed :) And the summary is "We decline to implicitly condone Chest's behaviour by continuing to wear the BDA tag". But I'm sure your fantasy plays well in the BDA echo chamber so feel free to keep saying it as if it's true!

Thanks for doing your part to keep "Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni" at the top of the New Posts search tho :)

Regards,
Mg

Yes, the abhorrent behavior of actually speaking my mind, calling a spade a spade. Cloki hijacked that guys account using password recovery and had to be publicly shamed in order to give it back, your loot council gave your co-leaders level 24 wizard an epic. Your platform is "Chest talks in RnF" ? What a joke. Y'all take this server so goddamn seriously, hiding behind some bullshit PC agenda, jerking each other off in guild thread updates, disguising your agenda by pulling that "we don't keep score" routine.

I think it's horse shit that all these guilds muzzle their members in order to paint some fake ass utopia. I've even seen guild charters condoning the creation of anon accounts to use RnF. Ridiculous. Sack up, speak your mind, tell the truth.

[mgellan]

abhorrent behavior

Yup, that'd be it! Self-awareness is key to your recovery, keep at it!

disguising your agenda

Describes the Class R debacle to a T, thanks for that.

speak your mind, tell the truth.

Well you get it half right at least.

Regards,
Mg

[Juryiel]

I think it's horse shit that all these guilds muzzle their members in order to paint some fake ass utopia. I've even seen guild charters condoning the creation of anon accounts to use RnF. Ridiculous. Sack up, speak your mind, tell the truth.

Speaking your mind in an RnF context is never really 'your mind' and people just get drawn into antagonizing each other rather than doing something with value. It's not your mind you're speaking but your emotions. Ideally we could speak our minds in Server Chat and just hope GMs would delete posts / ban posters with personal attacks and flaming rather than move threads to RNF. I never got why we don't have a section of the board like that, where discussions can remain there but stay flame-free. But I think RNF just makes people treat each other more poorly than they otherwise would. And often I think how guild leadership does business here is to try to antagonize each other as much as possible and read as much negativity as possible into each others' comments and positions when instead they should be doing a lot more to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

[Ravager]

Gats saw you coming a mile away Mgellan.

[Swish]

TL;DR Swish was leading the Alliance of Welfare Pixels to pad out the rotation and make rent. It's okay Swish, maybe Platlord will give you better rates for trying.

At this point you're just angry, but funny lol... so I made a gif ;)

http://i.imgur.com/uxW07W6.gif

[mgellan]

Gats saw you coming a mile away Mgellan.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2009/04/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Echo chamber still in operation! -- Mg

[arsenalpow]

Speaking your mind in an RnF context is never really 'your mind' and people just get drawn into antagonizing each other rather than doing something with value. It's not your mind you're speaking but your emotions. Ideally we could speak our minds in Server Chat and just hope GMs would delete posts / ban posters with personal attacks and flaming rather than move threads to RNF. I never got why we don't have a section of the board like that, where discussions can remain there but stay flame-free. But I think RNF just makes people treat each other more poorly than they otherwise would. And often I think how guild leadership does business here is to try to antagonize each other as much as possible and read as much negativity as possible into each others' comments and positions when instead they should be doing a lot more to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Having and showing emotion is a healthy part of life. RnF can be an outlet for that. Having candid discussions is a healthy part of life as well, also a great use of RnF. Muzzling players and encouraging them to use anon accounts? Nah.

I just don't believe in putting up that front.

[Juryiel]

Having and showing emotion is a healthy part of life. RnF can be an outlet for that. Having candid discussions is a healthy part of life as well, also a great use of RnF. Muzzling players and encouraging them to use anon accounts? Nah.

I just believe in putting up that front.

I mean yes, but if I'm discussing with you how we can make the rotation work, calling your mom fat is not going to help the discussion and will lead it to collapse. In the case that I DO call your mom fat, I also probably don't think she is actually fat, but I just said it cuz you said something to irritate me earlier. What people do in RNF is not some 'truth'.

RNF is not a good representation of how people are, with everything considered. Since it is the 'internet' there is no sense of consequence there and without these contexts people behave differently. It cannot possibly lead to anything of value beyond just trolling. It does not lead to some magical truth of how people are, it's just the short-sighted instant-gratification of that urge to troll or make a witty comment and win a very temporary exchange.

[captnamazing]

this thread makes me

1) pity mgellan

2) i'm proud of nibblewitz, whose forum game is strong, and yet subtle. the mark of a true wizard.

[arsenalpow]

I think you have a jaded view of what RnF really is. Sure, there's a lack of tact sometimes, but there's also a lot of really good discussion. When you're having a conversation with your friends you curse, you get sidetracked, you talk some shit, you keep it honest. That's the best kind of dialogue as far as I'm concerned. No mincing of words, no parsing of language. Saying RnF holds no value is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. RnF has its place.

[Juryiel]

I think you have a jaded view of what RnF really is. Sure, there's a lack of tact sometimes, but there's also a lot of really good discussion. When you're having a conversation with your friends you curse, you get sidetracked, you talk some shit, you keep it honest. That's the best kind of dialogue as far as I'm concerned. No mincing of words, no parsing of language. Saying RnF holds no value is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. RnF has its place.

I do not personally attack my friends in conversations about interesting topics though, that is my point. RNF does have good discussion I agree, but it is always derailed into bullshit that ends up just building negativity between parties involved. It doesn't have to be this way. It's not about cursing or holding back your opinion, or about tact. There is a big difference between "You are stupid" and "Your point is stupid", even though both of these lack tact. It's about attacking each other (and cheaply in most cases) instead of discussing whatever issue is interesting. You can give a strong opinion full of cursing without attacking each other, but good luck with that in RNF, someone who cares nothing about it will derail it into meaningless troll bullshit very quickly.

[Ravager]

At this point you're just angry, but funny lol... so I made a gif ;)

http://i.imgur.com/uxW07W6.gif

If my mocking you makes me angry, what does making mocking gifs of my mocking you make you?

[arsenalpow]

God I'm turning into Swish.

TRY RANTS AND FLAMES TODAY!

[Juevento]

I think we'll count this as a triple post of rage. It would have gotten there anyways even without the double post.

[falkun]

^^ Triple post rage. Its not about "piles of shit", its that the entire pile of shit is directed at BDA alone. Where's the daily Taken or Divinity bashing? That's his whole point. Its not there because the server trolls of RNF spend 80+% of their time trolling BDA exclusively. But here you are, committing to the exact same act. You are bashing exclusively BDA because its easy because everyone else will hop on the bandwagon with you, as you've just done with swish.

[Raev]

I'm not sure what people would have done but my sense from talking to my own leadership is that there was in fact appreciation for the aspect of sharing rotation slots.

There was. The A-Team plan, for example, offered some pretty reasonable concessions: if you have to team up for a target/don't kill it fast, you skip a rotation slot, and under some circumstances you'd even skip slots on other targets too.

[PollieDarkearth]

your loot council gave your co-leaders level 24 wizard an epic. .

This is funny, the reason that the now 60 alt wizard has an epic was because someone jacked up the MQ between the alt wizard and the person who had the VS staff.... which resulted in the 24 wizard with an epic AS WELL as the 60 wizard who had the VS staff. We petitioned it and told Sirken exactly what happened and assumed they were going to take it away. They didn't, and he then signed off on the misshap MQ that resulted in 2 epics.

I wonder who messed up the gnarled MQ staff back in the day that results in Gats wizard with an epic.... someone is probably mad

Anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to fear, fear leads to the dark side

[Ravager]

Ironic how the only ones who "get the facts straight" are the people everyone says don't know what they are talking about... As proven by The BDA RNF threads, facts aren't something BDA cares about

That's some fine rhetoric, no substance though. You should calm down a little and present some of these "facts" if you want to make a case, otherwise it's just angry spin.

[falkun]

If BDA is acting outside the server rules, we'd be suspended for it. The rest of it is spin or lies you are proliferating, with colorful personal attacks about my mental stability.

[Ravager]

What you call rhetoric I call proven by the multiple BDA RNF threads all claiming the same thing but after weeks still can't even prove it. Post some logs or a fraps because until then you all are just lying jokes who have already admitted in this thread to being piles of shit...

Proven by vague allusions to RnF threads? Post some logs or fraps of what? Are you afraid to get into specifics because you can't back up a thing your saying? What exactly are you ranting on about?

[captnamazing]

hi Bill. you feeling all right bud?

Loneliness is a big problem in our communities today. Seems like you could use a pal.

Send in an app to BDA today. I can't promise you'll get in... but an EQ guild is one step closer to a healthy social life and one step away from the pain of isolation and the confusion of fear.

With love,

Filbus Furyfoot
Warlord of Bregan D'Aerth

[Swish]

It's just getting embarrassing for BDA in this thread now.

How about issuing a full public apology for collapsing the rotation intentionally to harvest more pixels for yourselves. We can begin healing the server from there... :o

[Swish]

Send in an app to BDA today. I can't promise you'll get in...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif

oh my sides... lawd...

[captnamazing]

Hey Swish... I'm a bit offended by your blatant flaming and hate speech in Server Chat. I would really appreciate if you could cloister that over to RNF where it can grow and flourish.

Lead by example bud..

[Ravager]

It's just getting embarrassing for BDA in this thread now.

How about issuing a full public apology for collapsing the rotation intentionally to harvest more pixels for yourselves. We can begin healing the server from there... :o

Whatever you say crusty sheets.

[Swish]

Hey Swish... I'm a bit offended by your blatant flaming and hate speech in Server Chat. I would really appreciate if you could cloister that over to RNF where it can grow and flourish.

Lead by example bud..

This is a BDA thread started by a BDA member in which BDA have done nothing but break their own code of conduct which states:-

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2015/12/14/bdacode.png

Perhaps if you treat the community with a bit of respect, you'll get some in return. In the meantime, don't hold people like Ravager back on his comedy flames... he's gold ;)

[captnamazing]

So you just want to follow BDA's example, Swish?

Gotcha.

[Swish]

So you just want to follow BDA's example, Swish?

Gotcha.

I respect the BDA Code of Conduct as much as BDA members do, sure.

[captnamazing]

I agree that there's been a lot of poor conduct in this thread from members of my beloved guild. There's been a lot of poor conduct from pretty much all angles in this thread. Especially you.

With a post count of 13,144 (not counting the probably 30k of RNF?) - one would think you'd have a little more respect for the p99 community as a whole.

Gotta go! Hope you feel better.