Open petition to reduce variance to +/- 4 hours

[Seltius]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=69

Since the average player cant post their opinions on the raid discussion forum. But figure it will end up in RNF anyway as soon as someone posts on it. Because the trolls will come.



Ok so on to what I was going to post. I think the Variance was nice initially when there were only a limited number of targets with a few guilds monopolizing them. At this point if you have to have a variance then +/-2 imo would work. That way you don't have people logged in camping/socking a mob for 8-16hrs its not necessary anymore with the range of targets available. If anything the reduced variance will give others who aren't camping the mobs a break in the zones that do support xp groups or smaller raids. It would allow the players who are camping to do other things too. With longer variances it turns Everquest into Everwait and leaves people with little to do but wait for the mobs to spawn.

[Pokesan]

red doesn't have variance, have you considered red?

[jcr4990]

I 100% support reduced variance. I've talked about it a lot with friends/guildies recently. I believe variance was only originally put in place to prevent TMO from dominating the entire server right? With Velious out it seems the need for Variance is mostly gone. I can see there being issues with no variance at all. But I don't see the issue with +/- 2 hrs even would be fine. 4 hours max window would be <3

[Seltius]

I 100% support reduced variance. I've talked about it a lot with friends/guildies recently. I believe variance was only originally put in place to prevent TMO from dominating the entire server right? With Velious out it seems the need for Variance is mostly gone. I can see there being issues with no variance at all. But I don't see the issue with +/- 2 hrs even would be fine. 4 hours max window would be <3

Not quite accurate but close on the history.

I am all for them doing away with Variance and just letting people work it out themselves.

[indiscriminate_hater]

the change you're proposing is not classic

[Seltius]

What removing variance from any mob that didn't have it in classic? That is classic the variance added wasn't classic.

[indiscriminate_hater]

the change you're proposing will result in variance with mobs.

NOT CLASSIC

[Xaanka]

red doesn't have variance, have you considered red?

[Stormfists]

the change you're proposing is not classic

... /face palm.

[jcr4990]

Classic was no variance on anything wasn't it?

[Man0warr]

Some stuff had variance, like Hate minis.

[Champion_Standing]

Good luck with this one bud

[Seltius]

I just copied and pasted the title of the other thread to give easy reference. I wasn't suggesting a variance I was suggestiong little to no variance on things that didn't have a variance on live. I was actually suggesting fixing it. Also there shouldn't be an issue since this was done as stated time and time again because of TMO. Which is interesting that a whole server would have to be changed for 1 guild.

[Nibblewitz]

You don't need to backpedal dude; you haven't even taken a step forward.

[Oleris]

reset the server during a saturday and reduce variance since I just landed a job in my career field. Thanks rogean

[Swish]

I can just see Nilbog/Rogean throwing their hands in the air and saying "well... alright then, we'll have it in by tomorrow".

[Troxx]

This isn't a problem the stag can fix. As long as neckbeards are willing to shit in a sock, the raid scene will be toxic. Variance or no, it makes no difference other than it forces the hardcore retards to waste even more of their lives sitting around doing nothing - and I don't have a problem with that. If they're willing to shit in a sock - make them do it.

The only real fix for the toxic raid scene is for the culture to change ... Whereby armies of 30-40 something dudes realize there's more to life than sitting around for 8 hours waiting for Trak to spawn on an elf sim.

Variance or no, reds raid scene would be every bit as toxic if they had a fraction of the number of raiders. Instead they just have 1 guild that does pretty much all the content free from competition.

[Swish]

The difference there is the pvp battles would add that much needed extra spice (with more ppl)

[Kileras]

decreased variance only makes it so the zerg guilds can cover more mobs at the same time and get even more targets. its been 5 years of kunark mobs and the only ones that have become remotely "non poopsock/sit there and track" are far and few.

It's a culture problem. When you are notified by top tier guilds that HoT is going to be overcamped by them from tuesday-friday, there is no rotation or lockouts, and then lower the variance? Why? Massive variance is the only thing that gives any new growing guild a shot at content. until people don't feel the need to muscle everyone they can out of content, the variance won't matter.

[Swish]

decreased variance only makes it so the zerg guilds can cover more mobs at the same time and get even more targets. its been 5 years of kunark mobs and the only ones that have become remotely "non poopsock/sit there and track" are far and few.

It's a culture problem. When you are notified by top tier guilds that HoT is going to be overcamped by them from tuesday-friday, there is no rotation or lockouts, and then lower the variance? Why? Massive variance is the only thing that gives any new growing guild a shot at content. until people don't feel the need to muscle everyone they can out of content, the variance won't matter.

What growing new raid guilds are there? Everyone's too busy app'ing to be in zerg guilds once they get to 46-50...that's how it works now (thanks rotation smashers lol).

[Fanguru]

Growing guilds do not get a shot at content with variance.

In Velious you cannot split your raid in two. No guild can do both King Tormax and Aaryonar at the same time. Quite the contrary actually: top tier guilds have to make alliances to kill mobs one at a time.
A top tier guild could do 2 or 3 Kunark targets at the same time, but none wants to do that when all upgrades are in Velious.

Variance only keeps top tier guilds out of HoT during prime targets windows.

Apart from that, variance ensures you will never get a shot at a Velious target. Their respawns are so far apart that the major guilds will be tracking them all the time and killing them one by one.

With much less variance, windows would overlap and major guilds would have to prioritize, leaving less desired targets for the upcoming guilds to gear up and catch up.

[ArumTP]

Growing guilds do not get a shot at content with variance. Yes the can, but you will never get top tier targets. Everquest has never been hey new casual guy here is your free loot pinata. Velktor was up for I think 3 days before he got killed recently. Woushi gets killed reluctantly by any guild that can because he is an inconvenience, he usually remains up for a full day. Vindi is up every 7-9 hours, and there is less of a crush to get him.


In Velious you cannot split your raid in two. No guild can do both King Tormax and Aaryonar at the same time. Quite the contrary actually: top tier guilds have to make alliances to kill mobs one at a time..

In the current state of raiding guilds this is true. If it wasn't for the Fosaken/Asgard alliance being a constant thorn in the side of rampage they must chose which to go for. As soon as either side bites the dust, you can leave the hard stuff up because you know nobody can kill it, they would kill lower tier stuff first. This is the problem we had when it was just TMO.

A top tier guild could do 2 or 3 Kunark targets at the same time, but none wants to do that when all upgrades are in Velious.

Again this is you complaining that you won't get BiS stuff in velious, kunark is damn near untouched. I hear bda now actually clears down to trakanon instead of CotH races.

Variance only keeps top tier guilds out of HoT during prime targets windows.
That sounds like some envious bullshit there. You complain about not getting any velious content, then turn around and complain about the good stuff you get. HoT will better gear a guild than all of kunark minus weapon itemization.

Apart from that, variance ensures you will never get a shot at a Velious target. Their respawns are so far apart that the major guilds will be tracking them all the time and killing them one by one.

So don't track all of them like the major guilds, pick one and go for it.

With much less variance, windows would overlap and major guilds would have to prioritize, leaving less desired targets for the upcoming guilds to gear up and catch up.

Windows already overlap, its why kunark remains available. Get good at that stuff. Consistently do well at vindi. If you need an alliance to do those things or can't do that stuff for whatever reason, then you have no shot at high end velious content end of story.

[Fanguru]

You are mistaken, I am in a top tier guild and have BiS stuff.

I pointed out why variance is wrong even for the growing guilds, contrary to what Kileras thinks.

You hear BDA clears to Trakanon, but that is incorrect. Trakanon is still a coh race.

[ArumTP]

This isn't a problem the stag can fix. As long as neckbeards are willing to shit in a sock, the raid scene will be toxic. Variance or no, it makes no difference other than it forces the hardcore retards to waste even more of their lives sitting around doing nothing - and I don't have a problem with that. If they're willing to shit in a sock - make them do it.

The only real fix for the toxic raid scene is for the culture to change ... Whereby armies of 30-40 something dudes realize there's more to life than sitting around for 8 hours waiting for Trak to spawn on an elf sim.

Variance or no, reds raid scene would be every bit as toxic if they had a fraction of the number of raiders. Instead they just have 1 guild that does pretty much all the content free from competition.

This guy gets it

[Seltius]

I started this thread so the average raider could post input. Thank you for doing so. The raid forum is only accessible to a few and it may or may not reflect how the average player feels.

[jcr4990]

What growing new raid guilds are there? Everyone's too busy app'ing to be in zerg guilds once they get to 46-50...that's how it works now (thanks rotation smashers lol).

There's a fixed number of targets available to kill in this video game. There definitely is such a thing as "too many guilds" if you want to actually raid stuff. We already have... Like 9 guilds? That are doing/attempting to do raid content. If anything we could use a merge or two not more splinter guilds. I feel like that's 2x as many as my live server had.

[zanderklocke]

In live it seemed to always be more of a race to get to 60 than an actual race to get mobs if I recall. I mean just look at the expansion release timeline.

The Ruins of Kunark 2000 April 24
The Scars of Velious 2000 December 5
The Shadows of Luclin 2001 December 4

Like damn, there was only 7 months from Kunark being released to Velious dropping, and then 1 year until Shadows of Luclin. There's a reason why not a ton of players had epics before Velious; they didn't have guides on mobs or quests either. This server existing since 2009 with all information already available is what has made the raid scene unplayable for a lot of people. Unfortunately, unless you play on a Emu server with just a few of your friends, you probably will never have a similar raid scene to classic.

A relaunch server in the future might help things, but there's still too much information available on how to best use all mechanics in the game for there to ever be a classic raid scene in the original EverQuest trilogy again.

[Seltius]

In live it seemed to always be more of a race to get to 60 than an actual race to get mobs if I recall. I mean just look at the expansion release timeline.

The Ruins of Kunark 2000 April 24
The Scars of Velious 2000 December 5
The Shadows of Luclin 2001 December 4

Like damn, there was only 7 months from Kunark being released to Velious dropping, and then 1 year until Shadows of Luclin. There's a reason why not a ton of players had epics before Velious; they didn't have guides on mobs or quests either. This server existing since 2009 with all information already available is what has made the raid scene unplayable for a lot of people. Unfortunately, unless you play on a Emu server with just a few of your friends, you probably will never have a similar raid scene to classic.

A relaunch server in the future might help things, but there's still too much information available on how to best use all mechanics in the game for there to ever be a classic raid scene in the original EverQuest trilogy again.

Thank you and this is the truth of the matter. In 2001 You had 2-3 guilds on the server I played on competing for the same content then you had other guilds that would compete for other content. But you never had the lower tier guilds demanding to be able to kill NToV and ST. But that was because they weren't geared out like the top tier guilds. Here the expansions have gone on a while so the gear is more dispersed. The people who learned all of the encounters have already posted guides and told friends and others how to do the encounters so there is no learning.

Now don't take this as me bashing the staff or anything they had a dogs dinner to work with trying to get the classic out of the changes that have been made to velious over the years and they did a good job. At this point we should just enjoy what they have done for us and themselves. But that doesn't mean we cannot come up with ideas to improve things. Also it shouldn't be the decision of 6-10 ppl alone to voice and make. That is why this thread is here.

[dafier]

I support less variance.

[Man0warr]

Yep the expansion release speed helped to stratify the raid guilds. Each expansion had 1-3 guilds killing stuff as their current content - but never at one point 7-9 like there are here.

Really the best solution is to just do away with repops all together and do random Earthquakes every week. That or get rid of variance completely - there are so many targets now that it would be impossible for one guild to be everywhere at once.

As soon as either side bites the dust, you can leave the hard stuff up because you know nobody can kill it, they would kill lower tier stuff first. This is the problem we had when it was just TMO.

What do you consider "hard stuff"? I gaurantee the other 3 top guilds outside Rampage could kill anything in Velious outside of AoW/Tunare if given a few tries to familiarize themselves with the target. Allying up is just a way to brute force targets down because you know if you fail for too long then Rampage is going to get it.

[dafier]

Yep the expansion release speed helped to stratify the raid guilds. Each expansion had 1-3 guilds killing stuff as their current content - but never at one point 7-9 like there are here.

Really the best solution is to just do away with repops all together and do random Earthquakes every week. That or get rid of variance completely - there are so many targets now that it would be impossible for one guild to be everywhere at once.



What do you consider "hard stuff"? I gaurantee the other 3 top guilds outside Rampage could kill anything in Velious outside of AoW/Tunare if given a few tries to familiarize themselves with the target. Allying up is just a way to brute force targets down because you know if you fail for too long then Rampage is going to get it.

This. A random Earthquake or 2 a week would be awesome.

[arsenalpow]

Killing a target on p99 is 80% beating the other guys and 20% actually defeating the content. That's how it's always been. Even the gimpatrons of this server would crush guilds from 2001 because iron sharpens iron and they've been immersed in this hyper competitive reality for so long. Like it's already been said the strategies are out there, there's not a lot of testing needed. You figure out a chain, you position properly, you determine how to deal with any AE, and you go win.

[Zade]

see sig fools

[Legday]

Other people already nailed the point on why this isn't like live. Expansions came out rapid fire compared to p1999 so there was much less (if any) bottleneck at the endgame on any server during the Kunark and Velious eras.

Shorter variance is the answer if sim repops are going to continue at their current frequency. Keeping the windows from spacing out very far from one another is going to mean more mobs overlapping and more guilds getting a shot at them. Now that Rampage has competition on everything outside of ST, there is no more "leave the hard stuff up and kill the easier targets first" mentality. The best loot pinatas need to die first or the competition will get it while you're messing with the lesser mob. If smaller guilds want to put in the time necessary to even just spot check the Velks, KDs, Telk/Gozz's of the world, they can probably bag some kills. Kunark is mostly there for the taking and Vindi is a nice farm for his BP and boots. The opportunity for guilds to progress through Kunark and onward is better than its ever been.

With that said, I'm sure the staff don't care about spreading the loot around or keeping the windows from spacing. Less direct competition and cooks in the kitchen keeps their jobs managable. Petitionquest would be insane of Rampage, Forsaken/Asgard, Taken, Divinity, BDA, Gimpatron, Anonymous were all going after 20 velious targets every weekend. I think the staff likes the current state of things.

[trite]

I was always under the impression that variance had led to a lack of competition at the high end because only guilds with sufficient numbers and organization could commit the resources required to sock a spawn regularly. A guild with only 40 lvl 60 characters ready to raid could have gotten them to show up for sev or trakanon once a month if they knew exactly when it was going to spawn well ahead of time. At least then they'd have a shot at it but to ask the entirety of a small group to wait in ready for hours every week for their shot at FTE was impossible.

[Legday]

I was always under the impression that variance had led to a lack of competition at the high end because only guilds with sufficient numbers and organization could commit the resources required to sock a spawn regularly. A guild with only 40 lvl 60 characters ready to raid could have gotten them to show up for sev or trakanon once a month if they knew exactly when it was going to spawn well ahead of time. At least then they'd have a shot at it but to ask the entirety of a small group to wait in ready for hours every week for their shot at FTE was impossible.

Correct. The smaller a variance range gets, the better situation gets for a larger number of guilds who have the capability to kill the mob but less of a desire to waste their time staring at a spawn point.

[ArumTP]

What do you consider "hard stuff"? I gaurantee the other 3 top guilds outside Rampage could kill anything in Velious outside of AoW/Tunare if given a few tries to familiarize themselves with the target. Allying up is just a way to brute force targets down because you know if you fail for too long then Rampage is going to get it.

Northwing, sleepers, soltanak, aow, tunare, CT, 3 city kings. If pressure isn't put on them for those mobs they can ignore those mobs first. Right now they can leisurely go for sleepers mobs because nobody is in there, so they go for northwing aow ct etc.. Soon as enough keys get into other players hands, they will be forced to go for sleepers mobs first, then stuff from the above list. Those guilds not getting stuff from said above list then will have a shot while people are fighting for sleepers.

Its the way class C worked on a quake. When it was just TMO, they took all they could outside VP firs, then VP because nobody was out there to challenge that. But when it was IB and TMO, fighting for VP mobs was their first priority, giving asgard the opportunity to get non VP mobs free and clear. Better shit will always have higher priority when you have to fight for it.

[arsenalpow]

Well the main reason people couldn't contest in VP was because training was legal. TMO could keep your entire raid force fucked until they were ready to come kill VP. BDA tried to sneak into VP to sneak a Xygoz kill. A group of TMO trainers sat on our corpses for something like 12 hours.

[Kileras]

Why would FAT/bda/divinity support this if if it enabled smaller guild like anonymous more of an opportunity? I can't think of any other time (besides the guilds we ally with) people have made decisions that benefitted our progression over them getting more loot. Is this in hopes that rampage cannot go for other mobs outside sleepers? I fail to see how this just doesn't turn the few mobs that are open to us even more contested. 4 hour window sev? Why wouldn't every single guild be there? If something else was in window maybe it would just be an alt army.

More quakes would be nice, really only thing that seems to make guilds go for the highest apple they can pick, leaving the older content to the rest of us. Earthquakes and races are also super fun in comparison to a sock. We are at the end of the timeline, sure more items would be dropping but what's so awful about 1 euro and 1 usa prime time quake a week.

[arsenalpow]

Why would FAT/bda/divinity support this if if it enabled smaller guild like anonymous more of an opportunity? I can't think of any other time (besides the guilds we ally with) people have made decisions that benefitted our progression over them getting more loot. Is this in hopes that rampage cannot go for other mobs outside sleepers? I fail to see how this just doesn't turn the few mobs that are open to us even more contested. 4 hour window sev? Why wouldn't every single guild be there? If something else was in window maybe it would just be an alt army.

More quakes would be nice, really only thing that seems to make guilds go for the highest apple they can pick, leaving the older content to the rest of us. Earthquakes and races are also super fun in comparison to a sock. We are at the end of the timeline, sure more items would be dropping but what's so awful about 1 euro and 1 usa prime time quake a week.

Well when we had the class R rotation the 3 bigger guilds were definitely taking a hit so the small guilds could progress, and there was the time a few years back when TMO was suspended and BDA left content up and led open raids. TMO also tried to do some endangered species thing, but it was for some non relevant dragons.

Outside of that there hasn't really been much sharing, but it's a top down problem. There's no impetus for Rampage to share unless they're interested in adding you to their numbers / allying. Chopping variance in half helps everyone because it reduces the strain it takes to contest for 16 hours.

[Aviann]

This three guild alliance you guys keep talking about doesn't happen but rarely. Sontalak being the last time in quite a long time.

We don't have any vendetta for cutting Anonymous out of the picture. The reasoning behind what we are doing now is to stop a monopoly that would inevitably push us all into the dirt collectively. Like Arum explained above, when the server is controlled by one guild, things get shitty.

[Legday]

If the variance was tightened, after the first server reset (where all of the most desirable targets died within a 2-3 spread), 7 days from that point the larger guilds wouldn't really care about Sev's small window because they would be socking north ToV with dozens of targets in short reach spawning one after another. Even as the windows started to spread out, the RNG gods would have to be cruel over the course of several weeks to seperate Sev's window away from the bigger targets to the point where larger guilds would try to take advantage of the smaller window. A longer variance just accelerates this.

[ArumTP]

Why would FAT/bda/divinity support this if if it enabled smaller guild like anonymous more of an opportunity? I can't think of any other time (besides the guilds we ally with) people have made decisions that benefitted our progression over them getting more loot. Is this in hopes that rampage cannot go for other mobs outside sleepers? I fail to see how this just doesn't turn the few mobs that are open to us even more contested. 4 hour window sev? Why wouldn't every single guild be there? If something else was in window maybe it would just be an alt army.

Exactly this. Window right now is sunday through wednesday for high priority contested targets in velious. Low target velious mobs and all of kunark is open game for anyone not going for high priority mobs. Nobody is decamping for anything during this time. Smaller guilds get stuff.

Halving the variance would shrink that window down, putting those camped out guilds back out into kunark for something to do the rest of the time. This won't help small guilds.

[Legday]

Exactly this. Window right now is sunday through wednesday for high priority contested targets in velious. Low target velious mobs and all of kunark is open game for anyone not going for high priority mobs. Nobody is decamping for anything during this time. Smaller guilds get stuff.

Halving the variance would shrink that window down, putting those camped out guilds back out into kunark for something to do the rest of the time. This won't help small guilds.

Only if the windows all sat right where they are currently are and Sev's windows sat squarely in a void, but a server reset changes that completely. After a reset Sev wouldn't fall in his own timeframe for a looong time.

[Kileras]

I'm pretty sure most of the targets are still highly contested right now. Not tal/fay but most everything else is that we have seen or gone after. I'm fine with that being the case, but you can't say they aren't contested anymore, and it doesn't change the fact that these aren't really targets of interest to anyone because you can get better gear for easier all over the place. Sev/trak/52 Dragons are still highly contested and the few mobs anyone really cares for.


I agree though, if the windows could stay remotely in heavy overlap, it would hopefully make guilds pick and choose targets and other people could get a chance to experience the fun/thrill of doing it with their crew.

[arsenalpow]

I'm pretty sure most of the targets are still highly contested right now. Not tal/fay but most everything else is that we have seen or gone after. I'm fine with that being the case, but you can't say they aren't contested anymore, and it doesn't change the fact that these aren't really targets of interest to anyone because you can get better gear for easier all over the place. Sev/trak/52 Dragons are still highly contested and the few mobs anyone really cares for.


I agree though, if the windows could stay remotely in heavy overlap, it would hopefully make guilds pick and choose targets and other people could get a chance to experience the fun/thrill of doing it with their crew.

Server reset plus longer windows makes it more likely that stuff separates itself from the majority. Shit, VP only has 6 dragons and they go from Thursday to Wednesday now.

[Legday]

Worth pointing out that Earthquakes currently reset Velious spawn timers but only server resets do that for Kunark mobs, which is why Kunark and Velious windows are currently out of wack. The last quake was on a Sunday night so the Velious mob spawn timers re-centered there and the Kunark mobs were just bonus kills, and their true timers stayed around Saturday. A server reset would get everything back in line.

I'm bored at work. Does it show?

[arsenalpow]

Worth pointing out that Earthquakes currently reset Velious spawn timers but only server resets do that for Kunark mobs, which is why Kunark and Velious windows are currently out of wack. The last quake was on a Sunday night so the Velious mob spawn timers re-centered there and the Kunark mobs were just bonus kills, and their true timers stayed around Saturday. A server reset would get everything back in line.

I'm bored at work. Does it show?

It's after lunch on a Friday, everyone is in the same boat.

[Kileras]

I'm bored too man. Way behind shot list for the day and sitting on a crane with nothing to do but talk to nerds on the Internet.

[Seltius]

Oh almost forgot


This thread is a public service announcement brought to you by Red99! Try Red99 today!


Sorry couldn't resist.

Good ideas I like the fact that people are posting their opinions and views.

[dafier]

Last 2 nights have been rough, but when I get off work today I plan on finally getting some game time in.

About lunch time for me and I'm more than ready to leave for the day.

Overall, rehashing variance isn't a bad thing, unless another solution presents itself.

[Herp]

The server is fine and is healthy as ever. Stop trying to make things worse by fixing something that is not even remotely broken. Go outside for a walk, come back, and play better.

[Swish]

#blueproblems

#tryredserver

[Swish]

There's a fixed number of targets available to kill in this video game. There definitely is such a thing as "too many guilds" if you want to actually raid stuff. We already have... Like 9 guilds? That are doing/attempting to do raid content. If anything we could use a merge or two not more splinter guilds. I feel like that's 2x as many as my live server had.

would you merge with Taken if they asked?

[radditsu]

Tried to suggest this when Hermain Cain was still relevant. Deaf ears forever

[jcr4990]

would you merge with Taken if they asked?

That's above my paygrade. I will say if I had to pick a guild to merge with Taken wouldn't be such a bad choice. I've got a couple pals there. Would be higher up the list than Asgard/Forsaken for sure but doesn't matter cause again I don't make these types of decisions. I just think the server would be healthier overall with a couple less guilds in the raid scene. That plus cutting variance to +/- 2 = Raid scene instantly 10x healthier. If that means I have to merge guilds and deal with a couple people I don't care for on raids then so be it.

[Jfertal]

It's after lunch on a Friday, everyone is on their boats.

[Jfertal]

#blueproblems

#tryredserver

swish I've tried red cool man, wasn't for me, why dont you try giving the public some feed back instead of bashing blue, and promoting red.

We understand there are many differences between blue and red, but you sit here on blue forums and just bash our server versus yours. Both which are totally different, no ifs and or buts. What do you think would help out blue? Seriously, we all love p99 here, red or blue, but it seems like you just want to bash individual players, instead of even adding any type positive contributions. it just fuck chest, fuck bda, fuck blue, go red.

If you wanted people to give two shits about what you say, well, go ahead man...floors is yours.

[Cecily]

I don't have the desire to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been brought up, but shortened variance ruined the late Kunark raid scene by having the end result of forcing casual guilds to be hardcore for 16 hour stretches. It was worse for you simply because it didn't seem... that bad. It was and it was tolerable because it was the only competitive environmental you guys participated in. Believe me when I say that 72 hour variance was more casual because I actually experienced competing in both styles. 72 meant shift work tracking with one or two people at a time. 16 justified bring 15+ for the whole window.

Basically casual guilds negociated a 16 hour full guild poop sock every week. Kind of a nightmare. 2 hour or 4, you're ensuring an all hands on deck sock fest every spawn. Please don't support that. Personally, I would like a return to extremely long windows and extended variance to discourage the savagery we descended into at the end Kunark.

[Cecily]

Also I'm mad about the phrasing of the title. Thought this was about open petitions for a minute. Server could reallly use that. Petty petition quest and socking VP ruined raiding for me.

[Swish]

swish I've tried red cool man, wasn't for me, why dont you try giving the public some feed back instead of bashing blue, and promoting red.

We understand there are many differences between blue and red, but you sit here on blue forums and just bash our server versus yours. Both which are totally different, no ifs and or buts. What do you think would help out blue? Seriously, we all love p99 here, red or blue, but it seems like you just want to bash individual players, instead of even adding any type positive contributions. it just fuck chest, fuck bda, fuck blue, go red.

If you wanted people to give two shits about what you say, well, go ahead man...floors is yours.

That was very concise, thank you. PvP offers an extra dimension to EverQuest. Not only are you immersed with getting your pve gear sorted but also to get your resists to the best they can be. That's no easy task on red, but enduring that task will make you a much better player. Camping your own gear is far more rewarding than sitting in EC waiting for it to appear.

No loot lines or camp lines, the biggest step for people is starting over from scratch in a world where you start off as a small fish. If you can endure that and prosper, you've conquered one of the hardest things on either side of this emulator.

Funny how 16 years on from launch some people can be stubborn about learning something new (pvp mechanics etc). Starting on red was probably the best thing I've done in the world of P99 since I got here back in 2010.

Maybe you won't consider red today.

Maybe you won't consider red tomorrow.

But you'll probably consider red....because for some of us here, playing 5 years of the same thing requires broadening our horizons to keep things interesting <3

In the meantime, make sure you join the back of the class queue for your favorite zerg guild - and remember to kiss up and attack me on the forums daily like BDA if you need to score points for loot council pixels :)

[Cecily]

You red guys ever consider getting people to join red by being cool and normal instead of weird missionaries?

[gummab]

That was very concise, thank you. PvP offers an extra dimension to EverQuest. Not only are you immersed with getting your pve gear sorted but also to get your resists to the best they can be. That's no easy task on red, but enduring that task will make you a much better player. Camping your own gear is far more rewarding than sitting in EC waiting for it to appear.

No loot lines or camp lines, the biggest step for people is starting over from scratch in a world where you start off as a small fish. If you can endure that and prosper, you've conquered one of the hardest things on either side of this emulator.

Funny how 16 years on from launch some people can be stubborn about learning something new (pvp mechanics etc). Starting on red was probably the best thing I've done in the world of P99 since I got here back in 2010.

Maybe you won't consider red today.

Maybe you won't consider red tomorrow.

But you'll probably consider red....because for some of us here, playing 5 years of the same thing requires broadening our horizons to keep things interesting <3

In the meantime, make sure you join the back of the class queue for your favorite zerg guild - and remember to kiss up and attack me on the forums daily like BDA if you need to score points for loot council pixels :)

I just don't understand,you went back to red 3months ago and spammed forums about how shit blue is.Then last week done a U turn and want back on blue.
Which is it?

[Cecily]

I suppose it's human nature to think how you have fun is the best possible way and to think those who disagree are sick and of need of help. I, too, tried to save some souls on Bertoxx after I quit for Lineage II. That went... poorly haha.

[Swish]

I just don't understand,you went back to red 3months ago and spammed forums about how shit blue is.Then last week done a U turn and want back on blue.
Which is it?

I take it you were one of the advocates for trying to get "afk" people's points wiped? After being one of the vocal minority who didn't want dkp in the first place that's a big U-turn for you isn't it Gummab?

What did the officers say about not stirring up internal drama on the forums? PM me if this is really an issue for you. You sound jaded.

Very much on red if I could play, but I can't play. If red ever collapses or Rogean decides to shut it down or wipe it... it's good to know that those points are still there. Feel free to quote me in a PM to Gridfire <3

[Swish]

You red guys ever consider getting people to join red by being cool and normal instead of weird missionaries?

Come back Cecily (said in a cool and normal way) <3

[radda]

You red guys ever consider getting people to join red by being cool and normal instead of weird missionaries?

[Culkasi]

Reduced variance is not the solution, earthquakes (or any solution that makes mobs spawn a the same time) is. 16 hour windows is the only thing that gives any casual or semi-casual guild legit shots at some of the mobs because top dogs have to prioritize their resources.

[ArumTP]

Reduced variance is not the solution, earthquakes (or any solution that makes mobs spawn a the same time) is. 16 hour windows is the only thing that gives any casual or semi-casual guild legit shots at some of the mobs because top dogs have to prioritize their resources.


Basically casual guilds negociated a 16 hour full guild poop sock every week. Kind of a nightmare. 2 hour or 4, you're ensuring an all hands on deck sock fest every spawn. Please don't support that. Personally, I would like a return to extremely long windows and extended variance to discourage the savagery we descended into at the end Kunark.

These two get it. Long spawns make it so certain tiered guilds remain in certain parts of the game. Unlikely to find rampage/forsaken/asgard outside of northwing sun-tues. Should the spawns shorten up so they all ended up on sunday, it becomes why not kill that VS/trakanon/whatever is up on a monday. Conversely it prevents shitshows of every motherfucker in northwing making a mess of everything

[zanderklocke]

I think casual players think that reducing variance would allow them to go for targets, but in reality, this will cause 200+ people to be waiting at the zone line to kill mobs for every single target in the game. This is not a good idea in terms of training and petitions.

Variance itself is pretty stupid because it causes people to do irregular things not good for health. Sitting and starring at your computer for 16 hours is probably not conducive to postive general health and well being. Also, it turns the game into something incredibly unfun that can also hurt real life priorities if you have to be available at a moment's notice all day.

Honestly, the only thing that probably is an improvement for everyone, including the staff in regards to petitions, is mobs all spawning at the same time.

[gummab]

I take it you were one of the advocates for trying to get "afk" people's points wiped? After being one of the vocal minority who didn't want dkp in the first place that's a big U-turn for you isn't it Gummab?

What did the officers say about not stirring up internal drama on the forums? PM me if this is really an issue for you. You sound jaded.

Very much on red if I could play, but I can't play. If red ever collapses or Rogean decides to shut it down or wipe it... it's good to know that those points are still there. Feel free to quote me in a PM to Gridfire <3

So wide of the mark it's unreal.but you would know this already because you must have read the forums.
And what drama?I'm asking you a serious question why big up red so much and generally wipe your ass about the blue server,even in this post you say if you could play you would play red which we both know is not the case judging by the post you put up for the hate raid.

You should know by now I don't like liars and to me you are coming across that way which is kinda sad as I did like your ethos within the game maybe I judged you wrong.

[maestrom]

I think casual players think that reducing variance would allow them to go for targets, but in reality, this will cause 200+ people to be waiting at the zone line to kill mobs for every single target in the game. This is not a good idea in terms of training and petitions.

Variance itself is pretty stupid because it causes people to do irregular things not good for health. Sitting and starring at your computer for 16 hours is probably not conducive to postive general health and well being. Also, it turns the game into something incredibly unfun that can also hurt real life priorities if you have to be available at a moment's notice all day.

Honestly, the only thing that probably is an improvement for everyone, including the staff in regards to petitions, is mobs all spawning at the same time.

I agree with your solution, but not 100% with your reasoning.

In the past, on the TLP servers, I argued that all raid targets across all expansions should spawn at the exact same time, and that that time should be relatively predictable.

Reduced variance will probably not help very much, but classic spawn schedules absolutely would.

Imagine an Earthquake at 8pm EST on Tuesday night. A dozen, at least, targets would die within an hour, with another dozen or so dying in the following hour. Is Rampage going to get all of them or even most of them? Of course not. We aren't back in Kunark, where half of the available raid targets are located in one zone. Rampage will get a few, BDA will get a few, essentially every guild that wants one will get a few and all of the killing will happen in rapid succession.

Its not crazy to think that Rampage, BDA, and several other top guilds will spend most of that earthquake in ToV. This allows smaller guilds to take their pick of Kunark targets and low priority Velious targets.

We all know what happens now. Maybe next week Rampage, Foegard, and other larger raid forces are in ToV, but its more likely that one or two of them will disengage from ToV (where mobs are in window, but not spawned) to mobilize on lower priority targets that happen to spawn early. Certainly the week after, after targets spread out more, they'll trickle out of ToV to knock out other targets.

What if there was no variance? Rampage is in ToV all night next week on raid night, because they know which targets are spawning and in what order, and if they're not there, they'll lose all of ToV. Similarly, the guilds that killed other targets in ToV will be there trying to get what they got last week and maybe snipe one from Rampage or another guild. 3-4 raid forces in ToV on Tuesday night which allows smaller guilds to.. you guessed it, take out their Kunark/lower priority Velious targets.

I would certainly LOVE to see an all-Earthquake spawn schedule like you suggest though. But I think a classic-styled no variance + semi-regular resets (described in many places by Daldaen) would work almost as well.

[zanderklocke]

Here's Noble last year with no variance. I'm not saying variance is good, but this could happen unless multiple mobs are spawning at once.

http://i.imgur.com/lc4hzpK.jpg

[Swish]

So wide of the mark it's unreal.but you would know this already because you must have read the forums.
And what drama?I'm asking you a serious question why big up red so much and generally wipe your ass about the blue server,even in this post you say if you could play you would play red which we both know is not the case judging by the post you put up for the hate raid.

You should know by now I don't like liars and to me you are coming across that way which is kinda sad as I did like your ethos within the game maybe I judged you wrong.

You're still inciting drama, I'll have a word with the officers. Please PM me if you have anything else to say.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

You're still inciting drama, I'll have a word with the officers. Please PM me if you have anything else to say.

Swish always QQing to officers of guilds about things said on the forum when he has nothing to come back with.

[gummab]

You're still inciting drama, I'll have a word with the officers. Please PM me if you have anything else to say.

You have been forumquesting way too long if you think what I wrote constitutes as any form of drama,my points are totally non-fiction.

Peace out and long happiness to you on red.

[maestrom]

Here's Noble last year with no variance. I'm not saying variance is good, but this could happen unless multiple mobs are spawning at once.

http://i.imgur.com/lc4hzpK.jpg

You don't have to be at IZ in Sky?

[jcr4990]

The "2 tracker" rule will prevent that in most cases. Nobody is allowed beyond the zone in except for 2 trackers. Then its just a race for FTE soon as it pops. Same as it is now except you don't have to wait up to 16 hours for it.

[Swish]

Swish always QQing to officers of guilds about things said on the forum when he has nothing to come back with.

First time I can remember saying it. I'm flattered to have an internet stalker that knows better though. Dinner in Vegas later bb?

[Man0warr]

You don't have to be at IZ in Sky?

Sky mobs aren't considered raid targets for whatever reason.

[maestrom]

Sky mobs aren't considered raid targets for whatever reason.

Really? Weird. If they're not raid targets, they why aren't they considered camps like Stormfeather or Hadden?

[ManuelThePopStar]

The problem with an "Earthquake only" system is that it would kill the average server population. Everything would spawn and die in a couple hours, then no end-gamers would login for the rest of the week.

Rinse an repeat.

Perhaps if some kind of randomized-earthquake-only-system where x number of mobs would pop each day but they could be any "raid" mob in the game. Then more would pop the next night etc etc. The raid mobs that popped would always be random so you couldn't really poopsock them.

Course this would make me feel rrreeeaaalll bad for the trackers

[maestrom]

The problem with an "Earthquake only" system is that it would kill the average server population. Everything would spawn and die in a couple hours, then no end-gamers would login for the rest of the week.

Rinse an repeat.

Perhaps if some kind of randomized-earthquake-only-system where x number of mobs would pop each day but they could be any "raid" mob in the game. Then more would pop the next night etc etc. The raid mobs that popped would always be random so you couldn't really poopsock them.

Course this would make me feel rrreeeaaalll bad for the trackers

Just curious.

Are you assuming that a significant portion of the server population ONLY logs in to raid and logs in only to either raid or to sock raid targets?

Also

Are you assuming there is some kind of inherent value in having these people logged into the server and not doing anything other than staring at a wall or a spawn point?

[ManuelThePopStar]

Here's Noble last year with no variance. I'm not saying variance is good, but this could happen unless multiple mobs are spawning at once.

http://i.imgur.com/lc4hzpK.jpg

Switch the background of this photo to western wastes and you have the current state of Scout Charisa lol.

No variance serverwide would be a nightmare

[maestrom]

Switch the background of this photo to western wastes and you have the current state of Scout Charisa lol.

No variance serverwide would be a nightmare

Again, I'm curious. Why do you think the server would be a nightmare?

What scenario are you imagining?

[ManuelThePopStar]

Just curious.

Are you assuming that a significant portion of the server population ONLY logs in to raid and logs in only to either raid or to sock raid targets?

Also

Are you assuming there is some kind of inherent value in having these people logged into the server and not doing anything other than staring at a wall or a spawn point?

A lot of the endgame populace seems to login only for raid targets; or the possible spawning of an impending target. I think a lot of people at the end game would get bored if they were only raiding one night a week, for a matter of a couple hours, with no more targets spawning for the next 160+ hours.

[ManuelThePopStar]

Again, I'm curious. Why do you think the server would be a nightmare?

What scenario are you imagining?

Ammm....scenarios like the sky pic there and the current start of Scout in WW? All the zoens with ST key mobs would look like the picture above. Do you disagree?

[maestrom]

Ammm....scenarios like the sky pic there and the current start of Scout in WW? All the zoens with ST key mobs would look like the picture above. Do you disagree?

I do disagree. You can only have 2 trackers past IZ, so the mob spawn point would be relatively clear and the raid force would have to raid toward the mob when it spawns.

Also. If there is no variance (and therefore, most targets spawn very close to each other time-wise), guilds will spread out and go after uncontested targets in many cases rather than deal with trying to race for targets.


As for your other post, What's so good about these people being logged in an extra night?

[maestrom]

Ammm....scenarios like the sky pic there and the current start of Scout in WW? All the zoens with ST key mobs would look like the picture above. Do you disagree?

To use your Scout Charisa analogy.

Imagine there is not just 1 Scout Charisa, but there are 8 of them. Each of them requiring a raid force and spread out all over Velious. If all are popping at the same time, would all the guilds go to the same mob? No, they'd spread out. If they're all engaging their targets at about the same time, then they'll all kill their events at about the same time, so next week, they'll all pop again at about the same time.

Now replace Scout Charisa with "velious raid target", and you get what a no-variance situation looks like.


Currently, with variance, on a repop, all the guilds kinda spread out. But next week, Rampage will take 7/8 of the targets because they'll track all 8 of them and just take them out one at a time as they spawn.

[ManuelThePopStar]

This three guild alliance you guys keep talking about doesn't happen but rarely. Sontalak being the last time in quite a long time.

We don't have any vendetta for cutting Anonymous out of the picture. The reasoning behind what we are doing now is to stop a monopoly that would inevitably push us all into the dirt collectively. Like Arum explained above, when the server is controlled by one guild, things get shitty.

Far as I can recall, for-taken has allied up on multiple fucking GORENAIRES the past month, let alone other mobs.

But hey whatever justification you wanna use pal

[ManuelThePopStar]

To use your Scout Charisa analogy.

Imagine there is not just 1 Scout Charisa, but there are 8 of them. Each of them requiring a raid force and spread out all over Velious. If all are popping at the same time, would all the guilds go to the same mob? No, they'd spread out. If they're all engaging their targets at about the same time, then they'll all kill their events at about the same time, so next week, they'll all pop again at about the same time.

Now replace Scout Charisa with "velious raid target", and you get what a no-variance situation looks like.


Currently, with variance, on a repop, all the guilds kinda spread out. But next week, Rampage will take 7/8 of the targets because they'll track all 8 of them and just take them out one at a time as they spawn.

Yes I already understand everything you just said, thx tho

[ManuelThePopStar]

I'm pretty sure most of the targets are still highly contested right now. Not tal/fay but most everything else is that we have seen or gone after. I'm fine with that being the case, but you can't say they aren't contested anymore, and it doesn't change the fact that these aren't really targets of interest to anyone because you can get better gear for easier all over the place. Sev/trak/52 Dragons are still highly contested and the few mobs anyone really cares for.


I agree though, if the windows could stay remotely in heavy overlap, it would hopefully make guilds pick and choose targets and other people could get a chance to experience the fun/thrill of doing it with their crew.

Absolutely true. Read my above post regarding for-taken two guilding multiple gorenaires this month. Even naggy\vox are instantly engaged.

Have fun in a years time when certain guilds have level 52 alts in BIS NTOV gear to kill the 52 dragons with 3 people.

[ArumTP]

Far as I can recall, for-taken has allied up on multiple fucking GORENAIRES the past month, let alone other mobs.

But hey whatever justification you wanna use pal

What? Are you sure you raid?
FAT goes for AoW, CT, maybe soltanak, and maybe tormax.
FA goes wherever Rampage can be found
AT goes for VP

Asgard has gone for 1 Gorenaire ever

Long variance is good, earthquake only system is good. Short is not. If resources of the high level raiders are tied up in high priority targets all the time, other stuff will be open. Some people just don't want to dedicate the time to get stuff, and that is fine. Just don't expect to be rewarded with the best loot in the game either.

[maestrom]

I still don't understand why no variance is bad.

[ArumTP]

I still don't understand why no variance is bad.

If a spawn time is known at an exact time the whole server will show up resulting in massive training and petitionquest that no GM wants to deal with.

[Sweettouch]

What? Are you sure you raid?
FAT goes for AoW, CT, maybe soltanak, and maybe tormax.
FA goes wherever Rampage can be found
AT goes for VP

Asgard has gone for 1 Gorenaire ever

Long variance is good, earthquake only system is good. Short is not. If resources of the high level raiders are tied up in high priority targets all the time, other stuff will be open. Some people just don't want to dedicate the time to get stuff, and that is fine. Just don't expect to be rewarded with the best loot in the game either.

Just merge already

[Cecily]

I still don't understand why no variance is bad.

Nothing quite like spam clicking for FTE with a quarter of the server keeping you company piled up in the same part of the zone.

[ArumTP]

Nothing quite like spam clicking for FTE with a quarter of the server keeping you company piled up in the same part of the zone.

Pretty much this. Kunark era, with nothing else going on I have been a part of those messes. Low in window mobs with 20% of the server population waiting around is not uncommon. I'd say northwing pops pull currently maybe 5-10% of the population for that. Imagine an era of everyone showing up for vulak, cause why the fuck not when the cost of loosing is only some CR and how long it takes to travel there.

[radda]

I still don't understand why no variance is bad.

Troll

[maestrom]

Nothing quite like spam clicking for FTE with a quarter of the server keeping you company piled up in the same part of the zone.

Couple things.

Doesn't this happen anyway? (CoTH ducking?)

If a quarter of the server is tracking the target I'm going after, why wouldn't I take my guild to any of the other dozen targets that are going to spawn in the next 20 minutes.

I am NOT arguing for variance to be taken out without an earthquake. I'm arguing for no variance + 1-2 earthquakes a month (one is enough, 2 if they're classic).

Example:

its 7pm and there is an earthquake.

5 targets die within the first 20 minutes. An additional 10 targets die in the next 20 minutes. And another 10 in the next 20 minutes.

Fast forward to next week. Too many people going after the target you want? Pick a different target that isn't contested or try and race for it, and if you lose you can move on to one thats uncontested. The nice thing is that there are literally 24 other targets popping in the next 30 minutes that you can set up at.

[Cecily]

No idea what happens atm. I just have 3 years of raiding experience in Kunark being in the non factor / underdog / top guilds at various points. Low variance will make raiding worse. Now that pretty much every guild understands and has adopted the track / batphone style of raiding (which absolutely wasn't the case back then) longer windows wouldn't seem so horrifying. 72 hours seemed intimidating but omg it was so much more relaxed. Added benefit of shuffling windows so we don't get 24-48 neck beard festivals. With the downside of less mobs.

[ArumTP]

Couple things.

Doesn't this happen anyway? (CoTH ducking?)

If a quarter of the server is tracking the target I'm going after, why wouldn't I take my guild to any of the other dozen targets that are going to spawn in the next 20 minutes.


The risk of loosing and dying is worth the loot to be gained. The barrier for trying would be as low as travel time to get there and maybe some CR. Currently fighting outside your weight class to sort of speak is a 16 hour waste of time.

[maestrom]

The risk of loosing and dying is worth the loot to be gained. The barrier for trying would be as low as travel time to get there and maybe some CR. Currently fighting outside your weight class to sort of speak is a 16 hour waste of time.

So your argument against no-variance is it makes it possible for more guilds to compete for loot?

I suppose that's true and that would happen. Maybe we would see BDA and FAT taking more shots at targets that previously Rampage would have gotten uncontested. Why is that bad? Why shouldn't guilds push themselves to try harder content? Shit's classic.

[ArumTP]

So your argument against no-variance is it makes it possible for more guilds to compete for loot?

I suppose that's true and that would happen. Maybe we would see BDA and FAT taking more shots at targets that previously Rampage would have gotten uncontested. Why is that bad? Why shouldn't guilds push themselves to try harder content? Shit's classic.

FAT doesn't go for yelinak, tunare, and sleepers(due to lack of keys) currently. Rampage has to work for everything it kills otherwise.

As for BDA not bothering don't know, don't care.

Guilds do push harder for greater content. I've seen gimpatron getting all sorts of stuff that they hadn't been getting pre-velious. Anon got a VS kill, I was surprised and impressed by that. I'd expect these guys to crack into VP in a year at this rate.

[Xaanka]

have u considerd red

[Cecily]

I'd rather help improve blue or help bad ideas (like this) die to keep it from being worse.

[maestrom]

FAT doesn't go for yelinak, tunare, and sleepers(due to lack of keys) currently. Rampage has to work for everything it kills otherwise.

As for BDA not bothering don't know, don't care.

Guilds do push harder for greater content. I've seen gimpatron getting all sorts of stuff that they hadn't been getting pre-velious. Anon got a VS kill, I was surprised and impressed by that. I'd expect these guys to crack into VP in a year at this rate.

Good for FAT!

Of course guilds push for harder content, and I'm really happy to see someone is keeping Rampage honest.

But there are enough Velious targets that no matter how great Vulak's loot is, eventually, Rampage is going to want to kill Tormax, or AoW, or ST. Right now Rampage pretty much gets whatever they want, as I understand it, because spawns are so spread out.

Lets take a hypothetical. Lets assume that Rampage's number 1 target is Vulak. With no variance, Rampage is going to sit their asses in NToV until Vulak is dead. They'll either be contesting targets, or going after their own dragons, but they're not gonna leave and go after Tormax because someone else will take Vulak while they're gone.

That means another guild can kill Tormax. Maybe FAT, maybe BDA, (who is gimpatron btw?). It also leaves Zland and Kland open for whoever wants them. You want FAT in ST? Make Rampage choose between NToV and Klandicar. Right now they don't have to--they can go for both pretty easily because chances are nothing else will be popped or late in window in the event of a kland pop.

No variance also means that all of the bigger raid guilds are in Velious and ignoring Gorenaire, Trakanon, VS and such and will let smaller guilds take a shot at these.

I don't see how this is bad for anyone except Rampage. It's certainly good for the smaller guilds. In fact, I would bet that nearly every raid guild will kill more raid targets without variance.

[Man0warr]

Gimpatron is Omni/Europa/Azure Guard?

[Swish]

Gimpatron is Omni/Europa/Azure Guard?

keep up, wasn't it BDA that gave them that name?

[jcr4990]

No idea what happens atm. I just have 3 years of raiding experience in Kunark being in the non factor / underdog / top guilds at various points. Low variance will make raiding worse. Now that pretty much every guild understands and has adopted the track / batphone style of raiding (which absolutely wasn't the case back then) longer windows wouldn't seem so horrifying. 72 hours seemed intimidating but omg it was so much more relaxed. Added benefit of shuffling windows so we don't get 24-48 neck beard festivals. With the downside of less mobs.

So you have no idea how raiding works in Velious and you are basing your opinion on Kunark raiding in a thread that's discussing why Velious has removed the need for variance to exist? Got it

I'd rather help improve blue or help bad ideas (like this) die to keep it from being worse.

Again. If you aren't active in the current raid scene and know how things are going in Velious atm I don't really think you have much weight behind anything you're saying. But congratulations on helping this bad idea (that you know nothing about) die.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2rc0zZAlq79eM/giphy.gif

[fiveeauxfour]

have u considerd red

is that hitler in your sig?

[ArumTP]

But there are enough Velious targets that no matter how great Vulak's loot is, eventually, Rampage is going to want to kill Tormax, or AoW, or ST. Right now Rampage pretty much gets whatever they want, as I understand it, because spawns are so spread out.

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.

Lets take a hypothetical. Lets assume that Rampage's number 1 target is Vulak. With no variance, Rampage is going to sit their asses in NToV until Vulak is dead. They'll either be contesting targets, or going after their own dragons, but they're not gonna leave and go after Tormax because someone else will take Vulak while they're gone.

Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.

That means another guild can kill Tormax. Maybe FAT, maybe BDA, (who is gimpatron btw?). It also leaves Zland and Kland open for whoever wants them. You want FAT in ST? Make Rampage choose between NToV and Klandicar. Right now they don't have to--they can go for both pretty easily because chances are nothing else will be popped or late in window in the event of a kland pop.

That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.

No variance also means that all of the bigger raid guilds are in Velious and ignoring Gorenaire, Trakanon, VS and such and will let smaller guilds take a shot at these.

This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

[Fanguru]

The arguement against reducing variance to +/- 4 hours is that big guilds would camp each target for their short window, then move on to the next, non-overlapping window.

However, with less variance and a reset, all mobs would be up on the same day (ideally a Saturday).
Windows would overlap heavily, making major guilds prioritize targets and mobs would be up for other guilds.
While Rampage and FA rack up ST keys and kill each other over nToV, Taken goes for KT and PD, BDA goes for Dain and Inny, that leaves Dozekar, Telk/gozz, all of Kunark, Kelorek, Velk up for smaller guilds.
Some mobs like CT, ST nameds and Tunare would be left up for the day after, maybe NToV mobs like triplets too.

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.

Reduce variance and you will see CSG or Divinity snipe a Dain, Dozekar, Gozz/Telk... juicier targets. I would add Statue to the list, but it is not a 7 days repop and is not affected as much.

Rogean does not want to do repops, not much we can do about that.
But reducing variance is a one-time action that would make the whole raid scene healthier and more enjoyable, except for unemployed players who like raiding 5 days per week to hoard pixels.

[am0n]

The arguement against reducing variance to +/- 4 hours is that big guilds would camp each target for their short window, then move on to the next, non-overlapping window.

However, with less variance and a reset, all mobs would be up on the same day (ideally a Saturday).
Windows would overlap heavily, making major guilds prioritize targets and mobs would be up for other guilds.
While Rampage and FA rack up ST keys and kill each other over nToV, Taken goes for KT and PD, BDA goes for Dain and Inny, that leaves Dozekar, Telk/gozz, all of Kunark, Kelorek, Velk up for smaller guilds.
Some mobs like CT, ST nameds and Tunare would be left up for the day after, maybe NToV mobs like triplets too.

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.

Reduce variance and you will see CSG or Divinity snipe a Dain, Dozekar, Gozz/Telk... juicier targets. I would add Statue to the list, but it is not a 7 days repop and is not affected as much.

Rogean does not want to do repops, not much we can do about that.
But reducing variance is a one-time action that would make the whole raid scene healthier and more enjoyable, except for unemployed players who like raiding 5 days per week to hoard pixels.

[Swish]

Are earthquakes still a thing?

[Seltius]

I'd rather help improve blue or help bad ideas (like this) die to keep it from being worse.

omg y so mean? I am trying to help Blue your opinion matters so I am not bashing you for bashing me for posting this where others could post instead of where a few select get their say and the rest of Blue has to abide by it or suffer through it.

[maestrom]

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.



Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.



That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.



This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

[am0n]

Therein lies the important tidbit. This isn't about just removing variance. It's about removing variance and sim repops regularly (every few weeks). This means a lot more stuff would be happening at once, forcing guilds to be more selective in their choices. By forcing the big guilds to be in a different place when something else spawns, it means other guilds have an opportunity. Plus, it means you can turn the socking into a 1-2 day event instead of an entire week. Perhaps people will be able to enjoy other zones in the game if every night wasn't a sock night.

But all this is moot. The devs aren't interested in it. Even though they claim not to play on the server, which means doing this wouldn't actually impact them.

[maestrom]

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.


I liked your whole post but I thought this part was interesting.

Can variance be applied globally?

Right now, stuff is 168 + X hours, where X is a number between -8 and 8. Instead of having the variance done per mob, can it be applied globally to all targets?

So the respawn on all mobs would still be 168 + X but instead of each mob having its own X variable, they all pull from ONE X variable defined at a top layer. I'm not a coder, so I have no idea if this is possible or what the code would look like, but the output would be something like this example.

Currently, there are 4 targets on the 168 + X timer. With current variance, you could have:

Target A at 162 hours,
Target B at 176 hours,
Target C at 171 hours,
Target D at 167 hours.

Would global variance be constructable such that the same X is applied to all targets?

Targets A, B, C, D all have spawn timers of 173 hours.

The main purpose of this would be to move "raid night" around during the week. +-8 wouldn't be ideal in this situation though because a prime top repop would have a stronggggggg chance of putting the entire raid spawn either in the middle of a workday or in the middle of the night. Some testing and tweaking would be necessary to ensure raid spawns "walk" through the week but still stay clumped up.

[Legday]

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

Any of the Lord or Lady ntov dragons that aren't dead when Vulak is alive will assist him, and Aaryonar will assist anything else in NToV before he dies...so they would have to be kited (illegal to kite a raid mob) or killed before Vulak can die. Right now, because of 16 hour variance and a lack of sim repops, the windows of all of the big Velious targets including all of NToV are spread out from Friday to Tuesday night. As the windows are currently situated, it is only possible that Lord Vyemm would pop and stay alive before Vulak pops (and not very likely that he will), so Vulak is almost always (currently) a solo fight. He takes 5-10 minutes to kill and depending on how clean the FTE pull/train down are, it could take another 5-10 minutes to get him in to camp.

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

[maestrom]

Any of the Lord or Lady ntov dragons that aren't dead when Vulak is alive will assist him, and Aaryonar will assist anything else in NToV before he dies...so they would have to be kited (illegal to kite a raid mob) or killed before Vulak can die. Right now, because of 16 hour variance and a lack of sim repops, the windows of all of the big Velious targets including all of NToV are spread out from Friday to Tuesday night. As the windows are currently situated, it is only possible that Lord Vyemm would pop and stay alive before Vulak pops (and not very likely that he will), so Vulak is almost always (currently) a solo fight. He takes 5-10 minutes to kill and depending on how clean the FTE pull/train down are, it could take another 5-10 minutes to get him in to camp.

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

Even better. My one big concern was that Rampage would be able to pass on some of the harder NToV targets because no one else will go after them. Good work!

[am0n]

And that only lends itself better to the fact that No Variance + Random Repops (to mix up whose play window the targets are in, every few weeks) would do wonders to help out smaller guilds get some raid targets. Forces the big guys to contest for the most important mobs while the smaller guilds can do Old World + Kunark stuff.

[Seltius]

So since we are now having a healthy discussion why do you think variance should be increased? Say to +/-16 hrs? I know some of you said the variance needed to stay or be extended.

[am0n]

So since we are now having a healthy discussion why do you think variance should be increased? Say to +/-16 hrs? I know some of you said the variance needed to stay or be extended.

The only "benefit" I can see to extending variance is that it will spread out spawns more. However, this only benefits the larger guilds that can field a force to sock and raid at all hours of the day.

[Legday]

So since we are now having a healthy discussion why do you think variance should be increased? Say to +/-16 hrs? I know some of you said the variance needed to stay or be extended.

Longer variance would just spread the windows out even farther, and believe it or not, a 32 hour long window would still be tracked and/or sometimes socked by the big guilds. Thats how bad the sickness is.

What people don't seem to understand is that there are a lot of hardcores that play this game that just want it more than you do. They have the time, resources, and backwards priorities necessary to make their pixel dreams come true. The ONLY thing keeping them from tracking and killing that mob you want to kill is the mob they want to kill more having a chance to spawn at the same time.

TL;DR Someone should be documenting this whole thing as a social experiment.

[maestrom]

The ONLY thing keeping them from tracking and killing that mob you want to kill is the mob they want to kill more having a chance to spawn at the same time.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.

Congrats by the way.

I think variance is a mistaken question, other than debating to say no variance. Variance is variance is variance. It results in batphonology. Deal, amirite?

I think a more interesting option, is maintaining or even increasing variance, but implementing more periodic but limited earthquakes, which would reset windows.

Earthquakes are fun. Can we agree on that? I would gladly trade increased earthquakes for an even larger variance window. Earthquakes are basically like a pixel juicebox, icy cold.

As to making it so other guilds can get stuff, a pointless matter. There is plenty of content to farm one's heart out on. Dragons and bosses are their own reality. Deal. We all do.

After all, the dying guild bda isn't competing with Rampage. But yet we continue. Like some sick retinue of electronic tuberculosis patients grasping at the few remaining gasps of oxygen in a near empty tank, we continue on.

[Legday]

Earthquakes are fun. Can we agree on that? I would gladly trade increased earthquakes for an even larger variance window. Earthquakes are basically like a pixel juicebox, icy cold.

Hell yeah we can agree. I think the reason this thread is focused on the variance changing is because we all know how the plea for moar quakes goes. It's all a futile effort. Zero fucks are given by the server staff when it comes to altering the flow, frequency or timing of the raid mob pops. Quakes happen so rarely and randomly and thats clearly the way they like it. If I were them I wouldn't want to deal with the extra petitions either.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The staff's ultimate goal is to make sure this emu is running as stable as possible. They've said, they want this to be archival quality. They are not here to entertain us.

That being said, it is fair to ask the staff to see what they can do. Continent specific earthquakes. Zone specific. And as I said, bump up variance as the trade-off if need be. We need a little spice in our gumbo. Decreasing variance just changes the batphone terms. It does nothing to alter the flow of the server. My point is, add some spice.

[Monty405]

Decrease variance so guilds can fte mobs and get on with their lives (some people do need this intervention).

[Kileras]

I really dig earthquakes, but I also really really like resets. For a casual guild like ours, having the added time of 45 minutes or an hour to plan/talk with allies/prioritize targets is really a major benefit. We aren't really hampered by the problem of tracking / organizing trackers. The smaller guilds have issues with batphones and just having the coverage 24/7 to log in a couple full geared tanks and enough clerics/rogues to get the job done. We have proven ourselves with the ability to do certain mobs/get close to killing certain mobs with really low numbers or weird compositions... but it doesn't matter how good you are as a player if you aren't big enough of a guild to field 24/7 bat phone coverage. Guilds with large sizes, and a clutch set of hardcore players, i think take for granted the depth of their roster and the multiple characters/accounts people have. To reiterate, its not the windows/tracking that hinders smaller guilds, its strictly a numbers game of how many people you have to pull from that are pre-parked for a target.

i understand all sides of the issue though, and I don't hold it against anyone for doing what they can do to get their people their pixels. It does sorta feel like people should be given a shot to progress as a guild without needing to deal with the absolutely massive time sink for potentially little to no payout. The problem ( and maybe it isn't a problem) is that as soon as you get to the point of wanting to make a go at any of these mobs, you aren't casual. The raid scene is not for casuals and hasn't been since removal of a rotation. The raid scene is above all else "take everything you can get as fast as you can get it".

Earthquakes are a SUPER fun raid dynamic in my opinion. It promotes actual tiers of priority and raiding, involves mustering and getting places ASAP ( also really fun ), and promotes alliances for smaller guilds because taking the mob asap is always better than waiting. My dream scenario would be frequent earthquakes balanced between euro and US.


and no, were not merging, plz stawp.

[Cecily]

So you have no idea how raiding works in Velious and you are basing your opinion on Kunark raiding in a thread that's discussing why Velious has removed the need for variance to exist? Got it

I mean, to be fair, I could AFK until this server gets Gates of Discord to go live and would still have a better idea of what's going on in the raid scene than you or anyone in BDA. You guys are pushing for instant gratification which, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't really what Everquest is about. To put 4 hours in perspective, you'd likely have a harder time camping a hooded black cloak than getting a dragon to spawn. Pixel addicted casual scum is the worst kind.

[Cecily]

omg y so mean? I am trying to help Blue your opinion matters so I am not bashing you for bashing me for posting this where others could post instead of where a few select get their say and the rest of Blue has to abide by it or suffer through it.

I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking the idea. For an example of me attacking a person please see my previous post.

[Cecily]

Decrease variance so guilds can fte mobs and get on with their lives (some people do need this intervention).

Sounds nice in theory, but in reality it'll just lock to your computer for a series of short windows (playing more) and massively increase competition per spawn (for less loot). I don't think you'll have very much fun.

Cecily unleashes a flurry of posts.

[jcr4990]

I mean, to be fair, I could AFK until this server gets Gates of Discord to go live and would still have a better idea of what's going on in the raid scene than you or anyone in BDA. You guys are pushing for instant gratification which, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't really what Everquest is about. To put 4 hours in perspective, you'd likely have a harder time camping a hooded black cloak than getting a dragon to spawn. Pixel addicted casual scum is the worst kind.

Well now you're just being ridiculous. I'm not even sure wtf you're talking about with the hooded black cloak line. All I see is a bunch of nonsense being spewed from a retired player that somehow thinks anyone still cares what they have to say (if they ever did) Amazing how many of these type of people are lurking these forums.

[Cecily]

Reading comprehension never was strong in your guild. Let me rephrase. You're for a change that makes your average camp time for a raid mob on par with ones that drop 2k 3k items. What's worse is that sounds reasonable. Please consider red and get off my beloved server.

[contemptor]

Well now you're just being ridiculous. I'm not even sure wtf you're talking about with the hooded black cloak line. All I see is a bunch of nonsense being spewed from a retired player that somehow thinks anyone still cares what they have to say (if they ever did) Amazing how many of these type of people are lurking these forums.
Not sitting still and spamming track 16 hrs is instant gratification, duh. Lolz, step up your game nin

[Swish]

BDA aren't a casual guild though, its just a word said so often by them it loses its meaning.

[Pokesan]

BDA aren't a casual guild though, its just a word said so often by them it loses its meaning.

If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

[Slathar]

fuck off and shut the hell up idiots

[Swish]

Exactly, and if there are any definitions of true casual guilds its those like Kittens Who Say Meow...not many would put BDA in the same category :/

[Sweettouch]

Exactly, and if there are any definitions of true casual guilds its those like Kittens Who Say Meow...not many would put BDA in the same category :/

These blatant retarded lies brought to you by red,try it today pls?!

[Swish]

please do, thanks for putting in a good word for the server.

[FoxxHound]

CASUAL
https://exploringmormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/You-keep-using-that-word.png

[Xaanka]

let this thread be a reminder that now is as good a time as ever to consider playing on the red server. the red server has no variance and there is more skill than poopsock involved in getting spawns on red. instead of sitting there for hours with trackers, there's no variance and you may or may not have to fight over it against other players giving a dynamic layer of challenge to the game. i know it's hard to leave behind all your progress on blue, especially now that you can't transfer plat, but think about it this way: all the time you're committing to blue is time you are flushing away in the piss toilet because you're playing on the bad server for newbies. at some point you have to man up like your Father told you and roll on red. Start spending your time on something productive, like playing on the better everquest server that was made for real men to play on. peace out!

[Seltius]

I find this whole thread amusing. It has its constructive moments but let someone mention Red and people lose any composure. Btw if you missed it somewhere in the last 15 pages this thread was brought to you by a Red player who played on Blue for several years prior in a guild at least a few of you hate for whatever reason.

So maybe if this helps any with the state of Blue99 atm Red99 and TMO have done some good. Your welcome for giving you a thread to make your voice heard even if it lacked being constructive at some points.

I like that I could start a intelligent conversation between people from both servers about how to improve Blue99.