Play Nice Policy Doesnt Apply to Bards Making Money

[Malbolshia]

So I'm sure I'm not the only one who witnessed this weekend, but it seems like P1999 admins are okay with Bards who are making money PLing people to take entire zones of mobs - even ones camped by groups trying to take advantage of the double XP weekend.

I read through the Play Nice Policy and found these 2 passages that directly conflict with what took place by several Bards this weekend;

"You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area."

"Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area."

"You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns."

All 3 listed points in the Play Nice Policy directly conflict with such a player this weekend in LOIO. Even after several players in the zone asked in /ooc for him to stop taking all the mobs from various camped areas (mainly Sarnak fortress ledge)

So I guess this policy only applies to people who are not established, high level, making what only has to be tons of RL cash in charging several thousands of plat per hour to PL people. His group even went as far as to talk smack after they outleveled the zone and a big "F-You" to everyone complaining about it.

Great idea on the double xp weekend, too bad it had to be ruined greatly by individuals like this.

Thanks for your time.

[wormed]

Last time P99 had double exp, it was the worst experience I've ever had on this server. Definitely glad I'm not even logging on.

[holkan]

Look if someone is running into your camp stealing all your mobs and there's just nothing to kill at all then take mobs off their kite. Its as simple as that they're now your puller and kiter for you get to get xp until they stop taking your camp.

If they KS you and you can't contest then its just time to move on sadly because if you can't get a gm and you don't have a high level to compete with the damage then obviously there's nothing you can do.

[Gadwen]

Yep those bards are the worst! Good news kids! I'm waiting at the ramp to port you away from them!

[Man0warr]

If the bards have more than 4 mobs you can peel off their kite worry free.

[Malbolshia]

Look if someone is running into your camp stealing all your mobs and there's just nothing to kill at all then take mobs off their kite. Its as simple as that they're now your puller and kiter for you get to get xp until they stop taking your camp.

So if I read this correct, aside from a Play Nice policy that stops griefing of this nature, its okay to do this simply cause "they pulled for your group!"?

Not really seeing how that would be 'okay' if the policy says its definitely not ok.

[Verath]

Exactly why I never buff, port or rez bards. Bard LFG? rofl nah I'll just log my enchanter and CC from outside group. I also spam a bunch of instant clicks near them if I happen to run by one as their are swarming, they usually die from that. Fireworks work well too.

Or I just peel a mob off them and social a caster in and zone or fd, depending on what toon I'm on.

If its a PL and the bard won't die from the mobs and he takes things from my alt? I'll simply log my wizard and one shot his entire pulls because if he breaks PnP I sure as hell will too.

[jarshale]

If its a PL and the bard won't die from the mobs and he takes things from my alt? I'll simply log my wizard and one shot his entire pulls because if he breaks PnP I sure as hell will too.

The nuclear option. I like it.

[Malbolshia]

I guess I'm just confused is all.

So this server has a policy that clearly states taking entire camps of mobs is not okay, but the general consensus is that if a bard does this, its okay, simply take all the mobs off his train if you want as he is now pulling for said group.

So major contradiction here, if that's the case, then why have a policy at all? It doesn't look like its being enforced and generally on a community level, this is despised but okay.

So which is it? Legal or illegal? Will it be addressed or should I just disregard the Play Nice policy as no one follows its rules?

[Messie]

Exactly why I never buff, port or rez bards. Bard LFG? rofl nah I'll just log my enchanter and CC from outside group. I also spam a bunch of instant clicks near them if I happen to run by one as their are swarming, they usually die from that. Fireworks work well too.

Or I just peel a mob off them and social a caster in and zone or fd, depending on what toon I'm on.

If its a PL and the bard won't die from the mobs and he takes things from my alt? I'll simply log my wizard and one shot his entire pulls because if he breaks PnP I sure as hell will too.

jeez.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Exactly why I never buff, port or rez bards. Bard LFG? rofl nah I'll just log my enchanter and CC from outside group. I also spam a bunch of instant clicks near them if I happen to run by one as their are swarming, they usually die from that. Fireworks work well too.

Or I just peel a mob off them and social a caster in and zone or fd, depending on what toon I'm on.

If its a PL and the bard won't die from the mobs and he takes things from my alt? I'll simply log my wizard and one shot his entire pulls because if he breaks PnP I sure as hell will too.

lol your jimmies are shredded to pieces from rustling so hard. you sound like a vindictive little bitch.

also, GG on not inviting bards to your group. that's probably the single most effective way at turning more bards into aoe kiters.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Exactly why I never buff, port or rez bards. Bard LFG? rofl nah I'll just log my enchanter and CC from outside group. I also spam a bunch of instant clicks near them if I happen to run by one as their are swarming, they usually die from that. Fireworks work well too.

Or I just peel a mob off them and social a caster in and zone or fd, depending on what toon I'm on.

If its a PL and the bard won't die from the mobs and he takes things from my alt? I'll simply log my wizard and one shot his entire pulls because if he breaks PnP I sure as hell will too.

I think you would like red, friend.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

lol your jimmies are shredded to pieces from rustling so hard. you sound like a vindictive little bitch.

also, GG on not inviting bards to your group. that's probably the single most effective way at turning more bards into aoe kiters.

Shut up, bard scum.

[rollin5k]

Verath knows his stuff, take notes kids.

[myriverse]

Go bards!

[indiscriminate_hater]

Shut up, bard scum.

Man join date April 2015 and you've already got the bard hate and the "try red" rhetoric down. Are you this much of a follower in real life too? Heaven forbid you forge your own path. I'd call you beta but you blend in too much for even that

[simp403]

Man join date April 2015 and you've already got the bard hate and the "try red" rhetoric down. Are you this much of a follower in real life too? Heaven forbid you forge your own path. I'd call you beta but you blend in too much for even that

I think he's an older player that had his previous forum account banned.

[NegaStoat]

In Lake of Ill Omen, a bard died horribly for poaching mobs from static spawn points that were being camped (Fort Backdoor, courtyard area near ledge, etc) because an upset Necro picked off a goblin that was in the swarm. And then proceeded to fear it a few times, run to a densely populated area of goblins, waited for the thing to run through to grab all the greens for the chase, and Feigned.

Dead bard. Either pick off a mob you want from the swarm if they have < 4, or hire a necro to enact some justice.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Lol @ people rationalizing bannable offenses. Especially those that would occur when a GM is much more likely to be watching

[Bristlebaner]

Root their pull. Bound to cause a problem.

[NegaStoat]

Lol @ people rationalizing bannable offenses. Especially those that would occur when a GM is much more likely to be watching

The paltry number of server GM's are relying on dwindling number of Guides, so no one has the time to watch bards being stupid or people killing bards.

A real solution? Bardic song DoT's either do a .25 damage or no damage to an enemy in free forward motion. If the enemy is Feared or standing its ground, it eats full damage. Problem solved.

And don't EVEN use the excuse of "if people would invite bards to groups they wouldn't swarm." bullcrap. That is the biggest load of nonsense I've read on the boards this week. Bards know that the hybrid penalty is gone and the sky is the limit for fast leveling, and it is NOT with groups.

[indiscriminate_hater]

The paltry number of server GM's are relying on dwindling number of Guides, so no one has the time to watch bards being stupid or people killing bards.

A real solution? Bardic song DoT's either do a .25 damage or no damage to an enemy in free forward motion. If the enemy is Feared or standing its ground, it eats full damage. Problem solved.

And don't EVEN use the excuse of "if people would invite bards to groups they wouldn't swarm." bullcrap. That is the biggest load of nonsense I've read on the boards this week. Bards know that the hybrid penalty is gone and the sky is the limit for fast leveling, and it is NOT with groups.

I already did make that argument. Have you ever played a bard past level 10? Ever aoe kited? Grouping is a breeze compared to kiting - saves your wrist and a whole lot of anxiety. Plus, the loot blows when kiting.

Also, your idea is not a solution, it is a non-classic alteration of core game mechanics. An actual, and CLASSIC, solution would be to fix social aggro so charm kiting works like it did on live. Much safer, and significantly reduces the amount of mobs needed by a bard at one time, while also being very efficient.

[ECDubz]

GM's do a lot to stop this kind of behavior trust me. As an AOE kiting bard i for one have a macro that /ooc's to the zone that i am PLing and to call out your groups camps or send me tells of where you are EXPing so i can avoid your area. This should be a macro for every bard trying to PL or even EXP to avoid drama and to play nicely with everyone. But, a lot of people who roll bards are just as much of an asshole as someone logging into a wizard to cause even more drama. Bards are actually pretty cool when you dont go into it with disdain in your first communication with them.

[Dynheart]

I understand that it's part of the EQ's bard mechanic. What I don't understand is why take every mob in the zone. From camps, especially since you know people are at that camp? The biggest issue is the justification to do it. 4 mobs? You're quad kiting...big whoop. 20+ mobs....the whole zone?

These people tell others to find a different zone, but never consider these people were there hours before they started kiting. This makes the bard community look self entitled. Especially since they back their disruptive play 100%.

If people just played a bard normally, not like butt hole, I don't think people would have issues. But I guess 4-5 mobs just isn't enough...have to settle for half the zone.

As for someone who actually played classic EQ back in the day, this was never a huge issue. More like "oh, a druid/bard quading." Now it's like "oh, a bard kiting 90% of the zone...and we were here first, but they wont acknowledge it and tell us to go somewhere else just because." I sure hope this isn't an issue at the higher levels.

[myriverse]

It's only natural for them to take as many as they can. If that means 20 or the whole zone, then... yup. Pretty much every bard I've met will leave mobs for others when asked.

[Dynheart]

It's only natural for them to take as many as they can. If that means 20 or the whole zone, then... yup. Pretty much every bard I've met will leave mobs for others when asked.

Even from camps that are camped? Why should someone have to ask a bard to let them have some of their mobs when that train consists of their camp? I don't see how that's fair. That's like taking something from me, then expecting me to ask for permission to have it back.

I thought camps and camp checks were what this community pushes. How come that's doesn't apply to bards? Just because they can do it? I'll state I have never encountered a positive experience with bards since starting on this server. Even if I ask if I can have the mobs I am camping...it's always replied with a snarky comment back. The most popular is "go to another zone".

[jwargod]

Ethics and rules lawyering aside from both sides, man this is rants and flames worthy with the swearing and insults being thrown around.

[myriverse]

Even from camps that are camped? Why should someone have to ask a bard to let them have some of their mobs when that train consists of their camp? I don't see how that's fair. That's like taking something from me, then expecting me to ask for permission to have it back.

I thought camps and camp checks were what this community pushes. How come that's doesn't apply to bards? Just because they can do it? I'll state I have never encountered a positive experience with bards since starting on this server. Even if I ask if I can have the mobs I am camping...it's always replied with a snarky comment back. The most popular is "go to another zone".
I'm not saying "ask permission."

[Stormfists]

The play nice policy has only ever been enforced by Eunomia. Her departure had led to a "wild west" approach - on and off of double xp weekends. Granted it's amplified.

Show any of the current GMs (and I mean any) a video of a bard train, ninja looter, mob stealer, or intentional FD train and they'll shrug uncaringly. At the end of the day it's thier server and they just want an easy life, which I understand... But makes for a pretty poor experience a lot of the time.

[Mojo24]

I only played here for 7 months and have had dozens of shitty encounters with bards. IMO training em and ksing their PL clients is fair game.

[AzzarTheGod]

So I'm sure I'm not the only one who witnessed this weekend, but it seems like P1999 admins are okay with Bards who are making money PLing people to take entire zones of mobs - even ones camped by groups trying to take advantage of the double XP weekend.

I read through the Play Nice Policy and found these 2 passages that directly conflict with what took place by several Bards this weekend;

"You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area."

"Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area."

"You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns."

All 3 listed points in the Play Nice Policy directly conflict with such a player this weekend in LOIO. Even after several players in the zone asked in /ooc for him to stop taking all the mobs from various camped areas (mainly Sarnak fortress ledge)

So I guess this policy only applies to people who are not established, high level, making what only has to be tons of RL cash in charging several thousands of plat per hour to PL people. His group even went as far as to talk smack after they outleveled the zone and a big "F-You" to everyone complaining about it.

Great idea on the double xp weekend, too bad it had to be ruined greatly by individuals like this.

Thanks for your time.

Haynar implied its legal to take all mobs as long as you don't steal I believe, mobs are not a camp in a zone.

[DarthMartigan]

When a bard is leveling in Burning Wood or FV and avoiding the areas that players are, it's a beautiful way to level... when bards are plvling and hurting people's experience, it makes me very sad. Sorry for everyone dealing with this crap.

Some bards care about not ruining people's experiences, so I hope you don't get turned off to the class. As they say: Hate the individual player of the game, not the class of the individual player.

[jwargod]

When a bard is leveling in Burning Wood or FV and avoiding the areas that players are, it's a beautiful way to level... when bards are plvling and hurting people's experience, it makes me very sad. Sorry for everyone dealing with this crap.

Some bards care about not ruining people's experiences, so I hope you don't get turned off to the class. As they say: Hate the individual player of the game, not the class of the individual player.

What about the individuals who get away with bad behavior because their guilds support it.

[Sepulveda]

I have to say, I don't understand why bard swarm kiting is allowed at all on the server. It clearly violates all three of the policies that the OP posted. No where does any of the three PnP rules listed say "camp". It says "most or all of a zone". Pretty much every time a swarm kiter does his thing, whether it's in OT, BW, Dreadlands, EK, Oasis, FV, or any other zone that bard swarm kiters do their thing... any reasonable person would say there is zone disruption and a monopoly on the monsters.
This isn't even considering the lag it creates, which disrupts the normal playability of the zone. Nor is it considering that in certain zones, especially BW.. a swarm kite takes an hour or more, which makes the zone completely unusable for a huge amount of time. I for one wish they would either tweak the bard abilities, mob AI, or some other feature to make it not work. How that would happen, I have no idea. Not classic? Nope, but neither is 4 years of Kunark, every 3rd person playing buying Powerleveling, or a host of other problems the server has. I love P99, and have played here off and on for nearly 4 years. But bard swarm kiting has always been one of the things I hate most about the server, and it has only gotten worse.
Salty? Damn straight I am.

[indiscriminate_hater]

I have to say, I don't understand why bard swarm kiting is allowed at all on the server. It clearly violates all three of the policies that the OP posted. No where does any of the three PnP rules listed say "camp". It says "most or all of a zone". Pretty much every time a swarm kiter does his thing, whether it's in OT, BW, Dreadlands, EK, Oasis, FV, or any other zone that bard swarm kiters do their thing... any reasonable person would say there is zone disruption and a monopoly on the monsters.
This isn't even considering the lag it creates, which disrupts the normal playability of the zone. Nor is it considering that in certain zones, especially BW.. a swarm kite takes an hour or more, which makes the zone completely unusable for a huge amount of time. I for one wish they would either tweak the bard abilities, mob AI, or some other feature to make it not work. How that would happen, I have no idea. Not classic? Nope, but neither is 4 years of Kunark, every 3rd person playing buying Powerleveling, or a host of other problems the server has. I love P99, and have played here off and on for nearly 4 years. But bard swarm kiting has always been one of the things I hate most about the server, and it has only gotten worse.
Salty? Damn straight I am.

i think you're forgetting that in these zones, bards pull mostly wandering mobs. these are never considered part of a camp

[Calibix]

I understand that it's part of the EQ's bard mechanic. What I don't understand is why take every mob in the zone. From camps, especially since you know people are at that camp? The biggest issue is the justification to do it. 4 mobs? You're quad kiting...big whoop. 20+ mobs....the whole zone?

These people tell others to find a different zone, but never consider these people were there hours before they started kiting. This makes the bard community look self entitled. Especially since they back their disruptive play 100%.

If people just played a bard normally, not like butt hole, I don't think people would have issues. But I guess 4-5 mobs just isn't enough...have to settle for half the zone.

As for someone who actually played classic EQ back in the day, this was never a huge issue. More like "oh, a druid/bard quading." Now it's like "oh, a bard kiting 90% of the zone...and we were here first, but they wont acknowledge it and tell us to go somewhere else just because." I sure hope this isn't an issue at the higher levels.

They take as many as they can get because the swarm process takes the same amount of time if its one mob or 100.

Having a bard myself (who I leveled to 60 long before the hybrid xp penalty or even Velious came about) the bard hate is so real on the server I don't even bother to log in. Can literally sit LFG for days without a tell.

That being said I was leveling my Enchanter in OT mostly this weekend. Plenty of bards around, and its never as bad as forum whiners make it sound. Mobs to be had, maybe just not rapid fire pulling, which lets be honest, most groups don't handle well anyways.

I also enjoy people suggesting blatant breaking of the play nice policy ie training or doing something malicious to the bard to defend your rather vague breaking of the policy (ie you can't camp roaming mobs [unless its SF I guess?], most is subjective).

I swarmed a lot. I never had an issue with anyone while I was swarming for myself or for a PL. I used to group a lot as well, and would get tells for groups as soon as I logged in. Those days are gone, and it sucks because Bards are a ton of fun to play. The hypocrisy from people who want to level fast, but mad at people who found a way to do it faster they can't replicate is amusing at the least.

[Calibix]

I have to say, I don't understand why bard swarm kiting is allowed at all on the server. It clearly violates all three of the policies that the OP posted. No where does any of the three PnP rules listed say "camp". It says "most or all of a zone". Pretty much every time a swarm kiter does his thing, whether it's in OT, BW, Dreadlands, EK, Oasis, FV, or any other zone that bard swarm kiters do their thing... any reasonable person would say there is zone disruption and a monopoly on the monsters.
This isn't even considering the lag it creates, which disrupts the normal playability of the zone. Nor is it considering that in certain zones, especially BW.. a swarm kite takes an hour or more, which makes the zone completely unusable for a huge amount of time. I for one wish they would either tweak the bard abilities, mob AI, or some other feature to make it not work. How that would happen, I have no idea. Not classic? Nope, but neither is 4 years of Kunark, every 3rd person playing buying Powerleveling, or a host of other problems the server has. I love P99, and have played here off and on for nearly 4 years. But bard swarm kiting has always been one of the things I hate most about the server, and it has only gotten worse.
Salty? Damn straight I am.

Using OT as an example, define most of the zone?

Because no matter how you try to spin it, they aren't even taking half of the zone. They take specific mobs in one half of the zone (OT swarm east side for lower lvl bards, west side for higher) avoiding specific mobs like tigers and rhinos.

Had you said Chardok, that makes a lot more sense.

[DarthMartigan]

It says "most or all of a zone". Pretty much every time a swarm kiter does his thing, whether it's in OT, BW, Dreadlands, EK, Oasis, FV, or any other zone that bard swarm kiters do their thing... any reasonable person would say there is zone disruption and a monopoly on the monsters.

In FV and BW, there are literally never people around. Maybe it's because of the bards that have come before... but in those zones I haven't seen it as a disruption prior to this weekend. I think that the biggest bard issues come when it's primetime. When it's off hours, these zones are hardly used at all.

If you ever see me (martygan) kiting and you are upset by mobs i'm taking, tell me. I will zone or let you peel mobs off.

[surf3001x]

Bards are currently wiping out groups left and right in DL with bad play.

At least know wtf you're doing if you're going to swarm 20+ mobs.

[Mojo24]

I don't see why this is still a discussion. There is a guide on the first page on how to eliminate bards.

Monopolizing an area of a zone is breaking the PnP. Instead of waiting days for GM response its best to take matters into your own hands and force the bard out via xp loss or inefficient PL. Since you will both be breaking PnP policy.

Tagging off swarms is a bad idea, will result in your swift death when the scumbag dies.

[indiscriminate_hater]

I don't see why this is still a discussion. There is a guide on the first page on how to eliminate bards.

Monopolizing an area of a zone is breaking the PnP. Instead of waiting days for GM response its best to take matters into your own hands and force the bard out via xp loss or inefficient PL. Since you will both be breaking PnP policy.

Tagging off swarms is a bad idea, will result in your swift death when the scumbag dies.

on the flip side, it seems you don't realize how easy it is for a bard to wipe out someone in an outdoor zone

[simp403]

on the flip side, it seems you don't realize how easy it is for a bard to wipe out someone in an outdoor zone

Unless that person is a necromancer.

[DarthMartigan]

Bards are currently wiping out groups left and right in DL with bad play.

At least know wtf you're doing if you're going to swarm 20+ mobs.

If you are a leveling bard and you are reading this, DONT GO INTO DL. If you do too many mobs, you get DC'd by zone lag. If you don't do enough, it's not worth it. FV till 49ish, then BW the rest of the way.

If I could level all over again, I would do 1-18 wherever, 19-30 in Ill Omen (I think), 31-50 in FV, then BW. Least disruptive (if you aren't on peak hours for Ill Omen).

[Calibix]

If you are a leveling bard and you are reading this, DONT GO INTO DL. If you do too many mobs, you get DC'd by zone lag. If you don't do enough, it's not worth it. FV till 49ish, then BW the rest of the way.

If I could level all over again, I would do 1-18 wherever, 19-30 in Ill Omen (I think), 31-50 in FV, then BW. Least disruptive (if you aren't on peak hours for Ill Omen).

That would be a pretty good non-disruptive path except for possibly as you mentioned Lake at peak times, or soloer's at ledge in FV. When I was leveling, low hp agro was still a thing so it was very easy to go to out of the way places like EJ. BW it was rare to see anyone that wasn't a bard or a person leveling with a bard.

[Mojo24]

on the flip side, it seems you don't realize how easy it is for a bard to wipe out someone in an outdoor zone

Easier for us to kill bards. You'd have to pull a train and get aggro on us. Which unless you're blind is 100% obvious and we can just relog. A bard wouldn't notice a mob tagged to find caster aggro and he wouldn't have time to react to a desync.

I quit for awhile but I think I'll go bard hunting for a few hours.

[Aussie]

Play Nice Policy most certainly does apply.

Go through the correct channels - either /petition in-game or gather up some SS's / Fraps footage and head to the petition forums.

I'm sorry that you have had to deal with this on this weekend.

Have, and will continue to take action against these players accounts.

[Stormfists]

99% of the time fraps is deemed as inconclussive outside of raid training.

Just gotta accept it.

[Monty405]

99% of the time fraps is deemed as inconclussive outside of raid training.

Just gotta accept it.

You know what to do.

http://i.imgur.com/FnNToDl.jpg

[Aburamushi]

I had some troubles last week in OT. Was trying to get my OT hammer before going to KC and ruin my outpost faction, at lvl 38 it was nice exp tho :)

So was trying to kill sarnaks berserkers. Most of the time I couldn't find a mob, because some bards were tagging all the mobs (besides the tigers, they run as fast as sow), from Skyfire ramp to FM zoneline, in 30min I would only kill 2 berserkers...

Asked in ooc channel if they could leave some the berserkers alone, so I could do my faction grind. Most of the time they didn't care. BUT 2 bards were nice, and let me loot the braids. In the end, finished my faction grind faster.

So ask politely if they can swarm elsewhere or leave enough mobs for everyone. If they don't care, just /petition.

Or if they are rude: as a shaman, pull from their pack a rhino and cockatrice. charm it, cast sow on it. log off...

[drktmplr12]

...this weekend in LOIO...various camped areas (mainly Sarnak fortress ledge)...

LOIO is a popular place for bards. I'm surprised groups attempted to level there during double xp.

[simp403]

Unfortunately it seems like there's a 2:1 ratio of bad bards to good bards. Martygan has always been cool when I ran into him, as have most of the higher level bards. It seems like it's the lower level bards that tend to be bigger assholes. They also tend to be the ones to stop playing their bard when the swarm kiting stops being as viable an option at higher levels.

[sambal]

Yeah I logged in for about twenty minutes, and I quit again. For good this time. Bards, for me, are the deal breaker on this server. I've said it before, but I don't think bard kiting is "Classic(TM)" because of internet connectivity constraints that existed in that era. I saw bards attempt it back then, and they'd get a lagspike and drop dead. Also, graphics cards posed a certain kind of constraint as well, if they actually saw all the mobs chasing them, they'd lag out graphically and die.

[Ahtex]

charm it, cast sow on it. log off...

This isn't actually very effective, as a bard when people charm stuff I'm pulling I then have to kite the sowed mob charming it and sending it into the pack to die. Just means it takes me longer to kill my mobs, and therefore people that might be hunting the same mobs I'm pulling have their mobs tied up longer.

[Champion_Standing]

All the bards swarming make me laugh, as if bards can't lvl faster than any class already...what a waste of double exp. Grouping as a ranger all weekend would have been a better use of it.

[ECDubz]

This isn't actually very effective, as a bard when people charm stuff I'm pulling I then have to kite the sowed mob charming it and sending it into the pack to die. Just means it takes me longer to kill my mobs, and therefore people that might be hunting the same mobs I'm pulling have their mobs tied up longer.

Also, bards can negate sow using one of their songs. Its how to pull casters / friendlies of casters that get sow while roaming for PLing.

Edit: I think its rediculous the amount of hate bards get just for being a bard. I take strides to ensure that I go around groups and avoid areas and to make sure im not disrupting play and I still am met with hate on both the forums and in game. Its crazy because THATS the thanks i get for trying to help people and not be like the idiots that play bards for a power trip.

[Champion_Standing]

Also, bards can negate sow using one of their songs. Its how to pull casters / friendlies of casters that get sow while roaming for PLing.

Edit: I think its rediculous the amount of hate bards get just for being a bard. I take strides to ensure that I go around groups and avoid areas and to make sure im not disrupting play and I still am met with hate on both the forums and in game. Its crazy because THATS the thanks i get for trying to help people and not be like the idiots that play bards for a power trip.

Yeah....but no. If you are making people mad in game while swarming, you are either taking their mobs or training them. People don't just do a /who and start complaining about bards for no reason.

On top of that you are lvl 60, the only reason you would swarm anything is to sell PLs. Whats worse than a bard stealing all your mobs? A bard stealing all your mobs so he can sell a PL.

[ECDubz]

Yeah....but no. If you are making people mad in game while swarming, you are either taking their mobs or training them. People don't just do a /who and start complaining about bards for no reason.

On top of that you are lvl 60, the only reason you would swarm anything is to sell PLs. Whats worse than a bard stealing all your mobs? A bard stealing all your mobs so he can sell a PL.

So your saying if there is 1 person in the zone i cannot sell a PL to a player willing to buy one? I dont go around taking mobs like most other bards i literally send out an OOC notifying the entire zone that i am powerleveling and they should call out their camps AND/OR send me a tell letting me know where they are so i can leave mobs for them. THIS is why i hate being a bard sometimes, you assume since i am 60 and that i PL i steal mobs from people who already have a claim in the zone or will want a claim in the future. I let people take off my swarms, i let people level in the areas im swarming in because guess what? I dont take every single mob in the area because im not a greedy person and the XP is minimal compared to what im pulling.

You obviously havent played a bard, people do /who bard and send you hate tells just for being in the zone because they assume your swarming if their mobs are not up.

Edit: btw your use of the word "stealing" is being misused in your post. If a mob is not part of a camp, in an outdoor zone, and wandering it cannot be claimed by any player. It is up to both parties (assuming there is more than 1 which most of the time theres not) to work out an arrangement. Any GM can tell you that communicating with players is key to avoiding conflicts and its encouraged. I do not steal mobs and people like you should stop treating every bard on the server like they are trash and should play a different class that they would rather not want to play.

This thread needs to be moved to RnF because its just here to piss people off at this point.

[Champion_Standing]

So your saying if there is 1 person in the zone i cannot sell a PL to a player willing to buy one? I dont go around taking mobs like most other bards i literally send out an OOC notifying the entire zone that i am powerleveling and they should call out their camps AND/OR send me a tell letting me know where they are so i can leave mobs for them. THIS is why i hate being a bard sometimes, you assume since i am 60 and that i PL i steal mobs from people who already have a claim in the zone or will want a claim in the future. I let people take off my swarms, i let people level in the areas im swarming in because guess what? I dont take every single mob in the area because im not a greedy person and the XP is minimal compared to what im pulling.

You obviously havent played a bard, people do /who bard and send you hate tells just for being in the zone because they assume your swarming if their mobs are not up.

Edit: btw your use of the word "stealing" is being misused in your post. If a mob is not part of a camp, in an outdoor zone, and wandering it cannot be claimed by any player. It is up to both parties (assuming there is more than 1 which most of the time theres not) to work out an arrangement. Any GM can tell you that communicating with players is key to avoiding conflicts and its encouraged. I do not steal mobs and people like you should stop treating every bard on the server like they are trash and should play a different class that they would rather not want to play.

This thread needs to be moved to RnF because its just here to piss people off at this point.


Yeah yeah, I'm sure you are just the nicest bard on earth and have never done anything to ever upset anyone.

Fact is 9/10 bards are complete assholes, if you want to understand why people hate bards go hang out in OT for a few nights and watch how most of them act. You should be upset with the other bards that act like dicks...not the people who are sick of getting screwed over by them.

[ECDubz]

Yeah yeah, I'm sure you are just the nicest bard on earth and have never done anything to ever upset anyone.

Fact is 9/10 bards are complete assholes, if you want to understand why people hate bards go hang out in OT for a few nights and watch how most of them act. You should be upset with the other bards that act like dicks...not the people who are sick of getting screwed over by them.
I would like to think so yes. I have never had a GM called on me by another player except for 1 time that wasnt a bard conflict which happens more than you would think. (Bards but heads all the time for territory disputes). The one time was i admittedly pulled a bit much and left a player (it may have been a grp) without mobs after which i ended my PL session and left because the zone was crowding and it couldnt handle me pulling for much longer.

Fact is 9/10 bards are complete assholes i agree absolutely which is why this thread is so toxic because your insulting 1/10 bards blatantly and publicly. There is a reason why I never have and never will swarm or level any character in OT. I am absolutely upset with the other bards that act this way and I dont think it gives anyone the right even if they are sick of getting screwed over to treat people in a way that is in itself sickening. It is wrong and you yourself are giving the flame fuel for more fire. THIS is what being a toxic community is like and THIS is what the GMs try to avoid but its plastered everywhere because people think its within their right to do so. You think the EQ community is so great? Take a look at this thread and see how your alienating a single class completely because of "what they can do".

In a way its the GM's fault for not keeping tabs on players and keeping a count on how many times GMs are called on them. I for one think bards need to be given a 30 day suspension OR a perma-ban if their daily/weekly petition count reaches a certain level. This is coming from a lvl 60 bard who is sick and tired of being persecuted in the game he loves to play both on the forum in threads like this and in the game itself. Congratulations for being part of the problem.

Edit: I am done with this thread. This is to be moved to RnF because of its Toxicity to the forums. Sorry of the rage posts just tired of these silly people treating others like complete crap. See you all in game!!!

[stavio]

I took the little time I had to play this weekend to skill up my bard, after doing 20+ lvls of swarming from the previous weeks, it was time to catch up all my skills, weapons, defense, etc. and to level up my low lvl necro.

Honestly the double xp weekend seemed to bring the worst out of everyone, it didn't matter what class they was.

Man o man was the trains real this weekend, it got pretty crazy in Guk. Not once but twice I had charmers come up and charm the mob I was fighting after I had already killed 40-60% of their life. Powerleveling druids pulling mobs from you while you're trying to kill them so they can PL there buddy, it really just goes on and on.

Not that I didn't expect this kind of stuff from this bonus weekend, but I seen somethings I've never seen before on the griefing side of this game during this double xp event.

I'm pretty sure I will be sitting the next xp event out, It was very nice of the GM's to do such a nice thing for the server, but sometimes people just can't handle nice things.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

I would like to think so yes. I have never had a GM called on me by another player except for 1 time that wasnt a bard conflict which happens more than you would think. (Bards but heads all the time for territory disputes). The one time was i admittedly pulled a bit much and left a player (it may have been a grp) without mobs after which i ended my PL session and left because the zone was crowding and it couldnt handle me pulling for much longer.

Fact is 9/10 bards are complete assholes i agree absolutely which is why this thread is so toxic because your insulting 1/10 bards blatantly and publicly. There is a reason why I never have and never will swarm or level any character in OT. I am absolutely upset with the other bards that act this way and I dont think it gives anyone the right even if they are sick of getting screwed over to treat people in a way that is in itself sickening. It is wrong and you yourself are giving the flame fuel for more fire. THIS is what being a toxic community is like and THIS is what the GMs try to avoid but its plastered everywhere because people think its within their right to do so. You think the EQ community is so great? Take a look at this thread and see how your alienating a single class completely because of "what they can do".

In a way its the GM's fault for not keeping tabs on players and keeping a count on how many times GMs are called on them. I for one think bards need to be given a 30 day suspension OR a perma-ban if their daily/weekly petition count reaches a certain level. This is coming from a lvl 60 bard who is sick and tired of being persecuted in the game he loves to play both on the forum in threads like this and in the game itself. Congratulations for being part of the problem.

Edit: I am done with this thread. This is to be moved to RnF because of its Toxicity to the forums. Sorry of the rage posts just tired of these silly people treating others like complete crap. See you all in game!!!

Typical bard.... Just run away.

[Loke]

Leveled 5 characters to 60, never had a problem with bards. Maybe try not being bad at Everquest.

[Swish]

So the TL;DR was you all made the staff's petition lists go off the charts last weekend?

That's a good way to not get another one.

[Sweettouch]

People like you who bitch are why we don't have nice things more often,fuck off OP

[nhdjoseywales]

Yeah yeah, I'm sure you are just the nicest bard on earth and have never done anything to ever upset anyone.

Fact is 9/10 bards are complete assholes, if you want to understand why people hate bards go hang out in OT for a few nights and watch how most of them act. You should be upset with the other bards that act like dicks...not the people who are sick of getting screwed over by them.

Fact is you have a gaping sandy vagina

[Champion_Standing]

Fact is you have a gaping sandy vagina

damn did i make u get on ur forum alt just to post that?

[Era'viss]

I have experienced Bard zone domination issues. Sure made walking through OT easy.

Silver lining is I use it as motivation to explore areas I've never been to with a group of bold explorers. Usually works out great! Emerald Jungle was both terrifying and pretty empty this weekend.

Wanna say I love having a bard in a group. I see them as an awesome group member (if they can play a bard correctly), and a little bit of social justice by removing them from the swarm shitshow they can cause.

Also don't understand the justification of, "Well I can do this, so why shouldn't I?" Yes you can swarm kite an entire zone. You can also suck a dick. But do you really need to suck that dick? Do you?

[Monty405]

BDA is involved in bard swarming somehow. I'll figure it out, I am on to it.

[nhdjoseywales]

damn did i make u get on ur forum alt just to post that?

lets get something straight twat twdidler. im no ones forum alt. you got that jack? any more confusion and i will send swish over to check your oil bitch.

[Champion_Standing]

lets get something straight twat twdidler. im no ones forum alt. you got that jack? any more confusion and i will send swish over to check your oil bitch.

http://i.imgur.com/GRS9d0s.gif

[JboxCSU]

Simmah dawn nah

[nhdjoseywales]

http://i.imgur.com/GRS9d0s.gif

nah, just bored at work :)

not a bard, don't give a shit about the topic, purely here to throw an insult or two and meander off into the night

[Ostros]

Ethics and rules lawyering aside from both sides, man this is rants and flames worthy with the swearing and insults being thrown around.

It is a rant. Can it be moved? It's been a while since I've 'tarded it up in RnF. :D

[Ennewi]

I took the little time I had to play this weekend to skill up my bard, after doing 20+ lvls of swarming from the previous weeks, it was time to catch up all my skills, weapons, defense, etc. and to level up my low lvl necro.

Honestly the double xp weekend seemed to bring the worst out of everyone, it didn't matter what class they was.

Man o man was the trains real this weekend, it got pretty crazy in Guk. Not once but twice I had charmers come up and charm the mob I was fighting after I had already killed 40-60% of their life. Powerleveling druids pulling mobs from you while you're trying to kill them so they can PL there buddy, it really just goes on and on.

Not that I didn't expect this kind of stuff from this bonus weekend, but I seen somethings I've never seen before on the griefing side of this game during this double xp event.

I'm pretty sure I will be sitting the next xp event out, It was very nice of the GM's to do such a nice thing for the server, but sometimes people just can't handle nice things.

I got the mental image of black friday @ walmart.

[clouddynasty]

This thread is missing PLAYER NAMES -- Instead of crapping all over EVERYONE who plays Bard how about you give the names of the turds that pull this kind of shit so we can all shame THEM and not our class? These people deserve to get floods of shame /tells and contempt from anyone attempt to interactions with.

This kind of general Bard hate does make it harder on those of us that don't do it. As a Bard that exclusively groups (or solos with charm) I thought that at 50+ everyone would know what I offer in terms of grouping but while I sat LFG for sometimes hours the response from many (not all) people seemed to be 'You're a bard, why aren't you swarming'.

[kstampy]

I don't bard but I always had 0 problems with bards that swarm. There is a vast array of zones where bard kiting doesn't even work that give even better ZEM. We even have people in this thread that said they have already quit for good. They are still flaming, nothing better to do? None of you whiners make any sense. How many tissues do you people need? It is scary to know a huge number of players are 30+ years old.

This is a perfect example of why I refuse to log in for double xp. Emo99 status.

[applesauce25r624]

Yep those bards are the worst! Good news kids! I'm waiting at the ramp to port you away from them!

confirmed:

1. have a bard. you want people to leave, so you port them out of there

2. getting kickbacks from a bard to help keep the zone clear

[jcr4990]

I hate Bard swarming as much as the next guy. But if you honestly went to FV OT DL BW on xp weekend and expected to not see tons of swarming bards and trains from dead bards and lag/desync from massive trains then you are incredibly dumb.

[DevGrousis]

Exactly why I never buff, port or rez bards. Bard LFG? rofl nah I'll just log my enchanter and CC from outside group.

You're an LOL if I ever saw one

[EndofLine]

If a bard is pulling YOUR mobs from YOUR camp then absolutely it applies. However... It does not apply to every mob in the zone. For instance.

If you are in Lake of Ill Omen in a Ledge Group. You don't own the entire Fort. If someone pulls the inside of the fort and throne room out, you have no leg to stand on to complain. This game is old enough to where camps are pretty clearly defined and understood.

I get that it's frustrating, but the reality is you don't "own" those mobs they are just conveniently near you.

This for instance comes up often in MM where anytime I get in a group @ Pond inevitably someone will just stand in canyon on the way to graveyard and plop their asses down and start killing everything from entrance to GY.

It's well understood that the canyon belongs to the Pond group, but that doesn't mean that everyone "agrees" with it. If either person /petitioned I doubt it would get any attention because truthfully neither are 100% right.

I was in Lake of Ill Omen for a while over the weekend (No I'm not bard btw...) and listened to a group Rage for about an hour about a bard pulling inside of the Fort. I ran over and noticed the bard was pulling the throne room and pathers.

Not either of the ledge groups nor the back door had pulled anything more than 2-3 spawns deep into the fort, the throne room nor anything near it had been touched, yet they were screaming/whining in shout for an hour about how a bard stole their mobs.

I get it, it pisses you off, but did the Bard commit a crime. No... sorry they didn't. At least not in this instance.

Now if you have half your camp down, and they wander around snagging the rest of your established camp you have a very clear issue that I could see being addressed.

At least in my instance I witnessed the group were just ill informed whiners who were pissed that they didn't have a bottomless fort to pull from.

Just not the way it works I'm afraid.

Anyway the weekend is over, hopefully things will go back to normal.

[Era'viss]

Anyway the weekend is over, hopefully things will go back to normal.

/agree :)

[Capi]

I'd like to take this time to announce the grand re-opening of Capi's PLing bard service. Tired of bards training you? Just pay me.

[fishingme]

Canyon is its own camp. It's pond that steals from whoever is at canyon so canyon starts taking pond mobs. If canyon wasn't a camp then it wouldn't have the camp name "canyon". Search back in forums to around 2010 and 2011. Canyon camp was hashed out a long time ago. Plus per server rules paraphrasing here "anything within line of sight is camp".

[EndofLine]

Canyon is its own camp. It's pond that steals from whoever is at canyon so canyon starts taking pond mobs. If canyon wasn't a camp then it wouldn't have the camp name "canyon". Search back in forums to around 2010 and 2011. Canyon camp was hashed out a long time ago. Plus per server rules paraphrasing here "anything within line of sight is camp".

It absolutely was not like that on Cazic Thule or Torvonnilous I know that much. Every group I've been on in this server it's been unanimous that canyon belongs to Pond.

That line of sight thing was never enforced, and there are a million camps where is obviously ridiculous.

The fact is there are not enough mobs to sustain a group just around the pond. Nor are there enough mobs in canyon to support a group. Solo'ing each for sure, but not a group so it makes zero sense to have Canyon be split off.

[Malbolshia]

I was in Lake of Ill Omen for a while over the weekend

Well, if this was true, then you would have noticed the massive, 80-100 deep sarnak train pulling mobs DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the ledge group

(No I'm not bard btw...) and listened to a group Rage for about an hour about a bard pulling inside of the Fort. I ran over and noticed the bard was pulling the throne room and pathers.

Again, IF this was true, you would have seen why the group in question raged, as the mobs directly in front of the ledge group were being taken.

Not either of the ledge groups nor the back door had pulled anything more than 2-3 spawns deep into the fort, the throne room nor anything near it had been touched, yet they were screaming/whining in shout for an hour about how a bard stole their mobs.

This statement tight here shows me that's a pretty big IF in 'if you were there'.
Our grouped cleared the courtyard, the fort entrance and was working on the throne room when the bard in question ran by and grabbed all the remaining mobs. This happened several times throughout the day and into the night, until the group he was in then decided to /ooc talk smack to the zone. That's when he left.


get it, it pisses you off, but did the Bard commit a crime. No... sorry they didn't. At least not in this instance.

IF you were there, you would have seen that in fact, he did commit a crime. At least according to the Play Nice Policy, here let me link you the 3 passages his action directly broke. But of course, IF you were there, you would know this.

"You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area."

"Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area."

"You must comply with arbitration for contested spawns."

Now if you have half your camp down, and they wander around snagging the rest of your established camp you have a very clear issue that I could see being addressed.

This is EXACTLY what happened. Funny, since you were there, you should have seen this.

At least in my instance I witnessed the group were just ill informed whiners who were pissed that they didn't have a bottomless fort to pull from.

....

You're advocating a lot for this bard, perhaps you paid him quite a bit of Plat or even RMT for a nice successful double XP weekend?

Just not the way it works I'm afraid.

Unless your level 60, and donating quite a bit of profits from PL session to the P1999 donation button. Then it seems that's exactly how it works and is condoned with no repercussions or punishment.

[rictus204]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/Gotime/finalfinalfinallll.gif

[nhdjoseywales]

It absolutely was not like that on Cazic Thule or Torvonnilous I know that much. Every group I've been on in this server it's been unanimous that canyon belongs to Pond.

That line of sight thing was never enforced, and there are a million camps where is obviously ridiculous.

The fact is there are not enough mobs to sustain a group just around the pond. Nor are there enough mobs in canyon to support a group. Solo'ing each for sure, but not a group so it makes zero sense to have Canyon be split off.

Line of sight is absolutely enforced here. Been there done that.

[fishingme]

It absolutely was not like that on Cazic Thule or Torvonnilous I know that much. Every group I've been on in this server it's been unanimous that canyon belongs to Pond.

That line of sight thing was never enforced, and there are a million camps where is obviously ridiculous.

The fact is there are not enough mobs to sustain a group just around the pond. Nor are there enough mobs in canyon to support a group. Solo'ing each for sure, but not a group so it makes zero sense to have Canyon be split off.

It was a camp on ayonae ro and solusek ro. But that doesn't matter because p1999 is p1999, not live. LoS rule has been enforced, the problem being most of all is that GMs/guides vary on opinions on it this is why camps were never enforced back in the day but more of a "respect your fellow player". If you feel you do not have enough mobs in just pond then head to a less populated zone. Not having enough mobs whether it's because you have twinks in group or not doesn't matter, if you want an endless stream of mobs then you need to find another zone. Unfortunately my searches on p99 site do not go back further than 2014, nor can I find my posts in the thread I'm talking about from 2010/2011, I guess I post too much...

However, canyon is considered a camp. Not a primary one like Pond/gy/CE but it is a secondary camp when the zone starts filling up. It's just like unrest basement, you have the basement and then the pit where the dwarf spawns. Sure there's not enough mobs for a constant stream of killing, but camps are camps.

[Kekephee]

The thing is, back in the day, people used to take one room and sit in it waiting for three or four spawns for hours. It's not like that here. People on live would sit in the ass/sup room and only kill those mobs, sit in the cav room and only kill those mobs, sit in the exe room and only kill those mobs. Now you have one person taking cav/exe/sage and they're usually also dropping ass/sup. People would sit in the Hand camp in KC and wait for the spawns- now they're pulling jail, pawbuster, they're getting shit out of the basement. I don't know why p99 camps are bigger and faster than they were on live, but they definitely are, and it has an effect on this "the canyon is one camp, the pond is another, the GY is a third" argument that's being made.

[maskedmelon]

Players can plop down to kill mobs wherever they like, but only named and their respective ph are campable. Everything in between is officially FFA unless policy has changed. Traditionally players respected others invalid claims to areas out of common courtesy. That no longer exists on blue due to scarcity (of xp) stemming from mudflation and population and the absence of an tangible penalty for bad behavior.