Why is boxing and live frowned upon?

[Mojo24]

I've never boxed nor had any interest in boxing, good that's out of the way.

However it seems that most p99 players hate boxers, and refuse to play on any server that allows it. I've been playing on live and had many very efficient groups with boxers. I am level 100 after one week without any legitimate PL.

Just saying for a group of people that think EQ takes so much skill, you would think p99ers would respect someone that can play 4-5 classes at once.

Furthermore, classic EQ isn't more difficult than live. Nor is it that unforgiving, its just really time consuming and tedious. Sitting at a camp for 18 hours isn't hard, zerging mobs is straightforward and leveling isn't hard. I will give credit to FTE teams though. That shits intense.

I say this because there is so much shit you have to know on live today, it makes p99 look like child's play.

<3 p99 though, I will always play here. Just leaving for awhile because of the elitist attitude that seems to have emerged with velious.

[dragonhawk]

I can see why boxing is fun and requires skill, but it ruins the spirit of the game, which is a social game where you rely on other human beings to create synergies and help each other out.

Boxing is the ultimate way to kill off the MMO aspect of the game, turning it into a single player game like NWN--but worse.

What has always made EQ special is the social element. Boxing absolutely kills this--not just by trivializing content but also through a chilling effect on socialization. You can no longer tell if the character you are talking to or seeing or askng a question is even a person. They don't act or move like a person but like a robot, and usually the boxers dont respond appropriately as if they were a person. Instead they act really weird and are basically a drain and eyesore on the landscape. You have this team of dummies standing there looking stupid who never say anything and when they do act move like a weird keyboard turner or something. It sucks.

EQ is not actually about doing something difficult. If you want a challenge go play chess or maybe read some Wittgenstein. EQ is about entering into an immersive roleplay fantasy environment and the "gameplay" elements are there as tools to help with immersion. They aren't the point of the game.

[surron]

people dont like boxing because if you have 1 neckbeard who can play 24/7. imagine what he could do with a full group 24/7.

[Swish]

Just leaving for awhile because of the elitist attitude that seems to have emerged with velious.

Come on over to red if you get some spare time Mojo, its a fun leveling experience and most people are down to earth and enjoying it.

As for boxing, I was never a fan either. I think most of us hate the boxing crowd because the whole point of EQ when it was created was to be part of a team where you worked together to defeat things - not solo your way through content.

I guess for the antisocial types out there who want to do their own thing there's fungi twink monks...great for locking a group out of a camp. Or necros, if you're someone who needs to afk or be semi-afk a lot.

[Norathorr]

Boxing means especially in a subscription environment pay to win. 3rd party programs enable people to play 6 toons whilst only really controlling one directly. In an era like p1999 boxing has no place as open world content is ruined when a single person can lock something down 24/7. I actually do have respect for some boxers I have met over the years who would control 4 toons alt tabbing. Isboxer and such nonsense just annoys me. It is glorified botting in my opinion.

[maskedmelon]

Sitting at a camp for 18 hours isn't hard,



Ok

[Mojo24]

Ok

Sitting at your computer hitting a few buttons every 6, 12, 17 etc minutes isn't difficult. It's mundane and tedious.

[Spyder73]

I am level 100 after one week without any legitimate PL.



So you were able to hit the level cap in under a week....sounds like a real blast....

On P99 it takes 6-12 months to hit 60?

[myriverse]

level 100 after one week
This, alone, is reason enough to hate Live with a passion.

[Mojo24]

So you were able to hit the level cap in under a week....sounds like a real blast....

On P99 it takes 6-12 months to hit 60?

Takes about 2-3 months if you are diligent, go to the right places and don't mess around. Depending on the class. Without Chardok or bard PL.

This, alone, is reason enough to hate Live with a passion.

Eh, I like playing towards max level. I powered through 1-55 on all my toons here.

[azeth]

Answer: If you could box, you would therefore not need another player to fill the role of your box.

-fin

[indiscriminate_hater]

why are grammar good?

[Laugher]

EQ and skill: What is it? Is it the solo challenge, sitting on the same camp for 18 hours or the ability box 5 chars without 3rd party programs? Surely there's a definitive answer not derived from opinions somewhere :P

[Whirled]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/30/30acc4289731fc9d504991120ab7fd68628253e512ad8f2826 b5949e83d785df.jpg

[dafier]

I'll never forget seeing 6 Wizzys on live running around Mana Burning Gorenaire down and more. It was a sight....

[Champion_Standing]

Nobody here really wants to play live.

I'm not entirely against boxing. I guess it depends on how many chars you box and what you are doing with them. Boxing a buffbot to heal and buff your group? Not gonna bitch about that, but boxing 6+ chars to lock down content that should be for groups...not cool. Most boxers I came across on live were only doing 2-3 chars and more than willing to drop them from the group when we had another player come along

[wormed]

If anyone has tried to play the new progression servers on Live (Ragefire/Lockjaw), they're terrible. How the hell did these guys actually screw up EQ? Running around the new versions of Freeport, Commonlands, etc, is nauseating.

[iruinedyourday]

cus boxing is like the gateway drug.. you box, you WILL use MQ eventually no matter what you say or who you are.

Also as others have said, a select few would completely control the entirety that is norrath if you could box... I for one would camp like 9 things at once and I'm a frickn casual.

[Orruar]

cus boxing is like the gateway drug.. you box, you WILL use MQ eventually no matter what you say or who you are.

Have you ever said anything that isn't utterly retarded? I mean, most idiots manage to parrot something a smart person said from time to time.

[Man0warr]

Community is what actually set classic EQ apart from newer MMOs, not mechanics.

Boxing, instancing, the Bazaar, etc all pretty much killed it.

[iruinedyourday]

Have you ever said anything that isn't utterly retarded? I mean, most idiots manage to parrot something a smart person said from time to time.

lol

http://s21.postimg.org/63ek8inbr/escalated_quickly.jpg

[Thulack]

cus boxing is like the gateway drug.. you box, you WILL use MQ eventually no matter what you say or who you are.

Also as others have said, a select few would completely control the entirety that is norrath if you could box... I for one would camp like 9 things at once and I'm a frickn casual.

2-3 boxed for almost 10 years. Never used MQ never even used ISBoxer.

[iruinedyourday]

LIES

[Thulack]

LIES

I tried isboxer once but running Ranger, Shaman, Bard trio automation wasnt really something i needed. It was just a matter of swapping between toons quickly and having shit ton of hotkeys made that did all the functions i needed. Playing EQ isnt rocket science and playing 2-3 toons really doesnt take a ton of extra work.

[iruinedyourday]

I tried isboxer once but running Ranger, Shaman, Bard trio automation wasnt really something i needed. It was just a matter of swapping between toons quickly and having shit ton of hotkeys made that did all the functions i needed. Playing EQ isnt rocket science and playing 2-3 toons really doesnt take a ton of extra work.

haha this sounds like the slippery slope!

All im saying if you do box and you dont use MQ to warp your other 23 characters around the zone you're going to eventually.

I started boxing on live with 'oh it will be fun to have a cleric and an SK to play with together yay!'

that turned into.. I should get a chanter.. and dps... that turned into, sure ill take over your wizards, sure ill use your paly.. oh MQ? I dont know how to use that, whats that? /warp %t omg that was a lot easier than running my 6 characters.. hm this makes it so much easier ill just add 6 more...

what am i doing with my life

/q

..

/q /q /q /q /q /q /q /q /q

hmm p99 whats this?

https://i.imgur.com/zGHNzyG.jpg

[Frudrura]

Because we can't move on from a 16 year old game.

[maskedmelon]

Sitting at your computer hitting a few buttons every 6, 12, 17 etc minutes isn't difficult. It's mundane and tedious.

Ok

[captnamazing]

because boxing leads 2 cancer and p99 is a very healthy community

[jcr4990]

Community is what actually set classic EQ apart from newer MMOs, not mechanics.

Boxing, instancing, the Bazaar, etc all pretty much killed it.Except for that tiny inconvenient fact that EQ Live's subscription numbers continued to rise LONG after these mechanics that "killed EQ" like PoK books and instances came into being. Most P99 players either don't seem to know this or they just play dumb to suit their agenda. But contrary to popular belief around here EQ was very much alive and thriving throughout PoP and even GoD. Subscription numbers didn't start to really fall off til after OoW. The number of people that got their panties in a bunch about cats on the moon and instanced raids is hardly a drop in the bucket. You'd never know that listening to people on these forums though oddly enough :P

As far as "Shit's Classic" goes. I very very very clearly remember many people 2 boxing in my guild in classic. I was one of them too. I never did more than 3 box and even that I hardly did. I felt then (and still feel now) that 2 boxing is totally reasonable. I can COMPLETELY understand why 3+ boxing isn't allowed and I realize its a slippery slope. Nobody wants to see people 6 boxing entire groups or some neckbeard 40 boxing his own raids. But I *personally* feel that boxing is fine if limited to 2 per person. I realize that'll never be the case for P99. Another "Not Classic" feature that will never get fixed while we get screwed on buff timers >.<

[jcr4990]

Also never once used or even tried Isboxer or MQ so.... Get on my level?

[myriverse]

Eh, I like playing towards max level. I powered through 1-55 on all my toons here.
Precisely the point. "...playing towards..." If you get there quick it defeats the point of it. If you like it so much, you should want it to last as long as freaking possible, because once you get there, it sucks.

[kaev]

Except for that tiny inconvenient fact that EQ Live's subscription numbers continued to rise LONG after these mechanics that "killed EQ" like PoK books and instances came into being. Most P99 players either don't seem to know this or they just play dumb to suit their agenda. But contrary to popular belief around here EQ was very much alive and thriving throughout PoP and even GoD. Subscription numbers didn't start to really fall off til after OoW. The number of people that got their panties in a bunch about cats on the moon and instanced raids is hardly a drop in the bucket. You'd never know that listening to people on these forums though oddly enough :P


LOL. The classic playerbase was mostly gone before PoP. Classic EQ was indeed killed by the transformation of the game. SOE made more money off the new audience, because there were more of them, but that doesn't change the fact that classic EQ was killed off to make that money. Your population numbers don't counter anything except your implied strawman.

Also, claiming Velious is somehow part of :classic: seems highly incorrect to me. Velious clear emphasis on the high-level raid game drove off many players who had merely been made uncomfortable by Kunark, Luclin convinced those that checked back not to return.

PoP should have showed the die-hards who had not adapted to the NewOrder[tm] that they were being more than a little foolish hanging around hoping that SOE might return to the original Vision[tm]. But instead they rose up agitating mercilessly and convinced SOE to release LoY, which was not well received by the then current playbase because there just weren't enough fans of the classic Vision[tm] left to support an expansion that didn't cater explicitly to high-end raiders and their wannabe fans.

Classic EQ was mortally wounded by Velious, Luclin poisoned on the dying beast to hasten its demise, and PoP laughed at it, poured gasoline over it, set it afire, and toasted marshmallows over the merrily blazing corpse.

[ClubnRed]

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn this.

It takes the fun away from the game, if we were allowed to box then you'd literally see a bunch of people never socializing. And the entire server would die quick, nobody likes people who box, especially not the people who want to play the game the way it was meant to be played (like 95% of the server)

[ClubnRed]

LOL. The classic playerbase was mostly gone before PoP. Classic EQ was indeed killed by the transformation of the game. SOE made more money off the new audience, because there were more of them, but that doesn't change the fact that classic EQ was killed off to make that money. Your population numbers don't counter anything except your implied strawman.

Also, claiming Velious is somehow part of :classic: seems highly incorrect to me. Velious clear emphasis on the high-level raid game drove off many players who had merely been made uncomfortable by Kunark, Luclin convinced those that checked back not to return.

PoP should have showed the die-hards who had not adapted to the NewOrder[tm] that they were being more than a little foolish hanging around hoping that SOE might return to the original Vision[tm]. But instead they rose up agitating mercilessly and convinced SOE to release LoY, which was not well received by the then current playbase because there just weren't enough fans of the classic Vision[tm] left to support an expansion that didn't cater explicitly to high-end raiders and their wannabe fans.

Classic EQ was mortally wounded by Velious, Luclin poisoned on the dying beast to hasten its demise, and PoP laughed at it, poured gasoline over it, set it afire, and toasted marshmallows over the merrily blazing corpse.

Sorry to bust your bubble but.. classic Everquest is, was and STILL will always be considered up to velious. After the expac after velious landed, it was NOT considered classic because of how drastic the game changed in so many ways.

[Man0warr]

Except for that tiny inconvenient fact that EQ Live's subscription numbers continued to rise LONG after these mechanics that "killed EQ" like PoK books and instances came into being. Most P99 players either don't seem to know this or they just play dumb to suit their agenda. But contrary to popular belief around here EQ was very much alive and thriving throughout PoP and even GoD. Subscription numbers didn't start to really fall off til after OoW. The number of people that got their panties in a bunch about cats on the moon and instanced raids is hardly a drop in the bucket. You'd never know that listening to people on these forums though oddly enough :P



I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

[Swish]

I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

That's amusing from someone in a guild that prides itself on a circlejerk and patting each other on the back for zerging and downing Trak in 5 seconds. Surely you guys have a great sense of community spirit, at least under your guild tag?

[mr_jon3s]

Community is what actually set classic EQ apart from newer MMOs, not mechanics.

Boxing, instancing, the Bazaar, etc all pretty much killed it.

Na the game got killed because it is old. Instances helped a lot and made it so you didn't have to fight for those raid pixels, and the bazaar increased trade. I never understood the bazaar hate because people still tunnelquested in the bazaar. Planes of power was the peak. Once you hit the peak its all down hill from there.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I've never boxed nor had any interest in boxing, good that's out of the way.

However it seems that most p99 players hate boxers, and refuse to play on any server that allows it. I've been playing on live and had many very efficient groups with boxers. I am level 100 after one week without any legitimate PL.

Just saying for a group of people that think EQ takes so much skill, you would think p99ers would respect someone that can play 4-5 classes at once.

Furthermore, classic EQ isn't more difficult than live. Nor is it that unforgiving, its just really time consuming and tedious. Sitting at a camp for 18 hours isn't hard, zerging mobs is straightforward and leveling isn't hard. I will give credit to FTE teams though. That shits intense.

I say this because there is so much shit you have to know on live today, it makes p99 look like child's play.

<3 p99 though, I will always play here. Just leaving for awhile because of the elitist attitude that seems to have emerged with velious.

The last sentence is the tell. You gave away your game OP. You were looking for something to bitch and trifle about how we roll here.

The only part that is missing is, you forgot to say how we all live in our mom's basement.

[maestrom]

Na the game got killed because it is old. Instances helped a lot and made it so you didn't have to fight for those raid pixels, and the bazaar increased trade. I never understood the bazaar hate because people still tunnelquested in the bazaar. Planes of power was the peak. Once you hit the peak its all down hill from there.

I've been in this debate a few times over the past few months on the live forums leading up to the completely failed launch of the shitshow that is the latest round of progression servers.

Instancing did not kill Everquest. The people that were "harmed" by instancing were either RMT, who make money off of scarcity and the ability to deny access to content to others, and trolls who get off on taking from other players but don't want to play a real PvP game like Ultima Online (at the time).

Instancing did not make the encounters easier. It did not change the amount of hitpoints targets had. It just meant that you didn't have to deal with getting griefed (as anyone who has been a few guilds behind the top in PoP will tell you, people killing triggers at 2am so your guild couldn't flag was ridiculous).

The "evidence" cited by many people who think instancing ruined the game is dubious at best. They claim that EQ subs dropped off a lot when instancing was released. This is kinda true, but it ignores a lot of other things that were going on at the time. Many mechanical updates were made to the game around the release of GoD that made it impossible to play on many older computer. Some people were faced with upgrades of hundreds of dollars or buying a whole new computer in order to continue to play. Also, many of the mechanical changes completely broke many zones. There were screen shots of my guilds main tank sitting in Fire with literally every monster in field two on him, but not able to get to him because they had fallen below the world.

There was also the launch of the WoW beta, which took many people from my guild and most of my RL friends that played EQ. This was, I think, the biggest killer to EQ. Althought WoW wouldn't launch officially for another 9 months or so, new people were being added to the beta every couple of weeks it seemed, which took a huge chunk out of EQ. It's worth noting that many of my friends cited instancing as a top 5 reason they picked WoW over EQ.

I never understood why people thought Bazaar was such a bad thing. It made trading easier. You could still negotiate with traders, i often did.

[Shjade]

because boxing leads 2 cancer and p99 is a very healthy community

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDwFCoj-0js

[kaev]

Sorry to bust your bubble but.. classic Everquest is, was and STILL will always be considered up to velious. After the expac after velious landed, it was NOT considered classic because of how drastic the game changed in so many ways.

By the people that jumped on the twisted game and encouraged SOE to twist it further, yes. But, not by the folks who loved the original game. Velious is more twisted from the original game than Luclin was from Velious. You usurpers can make all the noise you want, I'm sure it'll make you feel better to stand around and shout about it, but Velious ain't classic.

[iruinedyourday]

Opinions!

[iruinedyourday]

Classic to me is vanilla.

[Shjade]

Classic to me is vanilla.

Same. I never liked Kunark/Velious: thought the new mobs looked weird, awkward getting to/from the continents (seriously what is the deal with that "take a shuttle to catch another ship that isn't even on the same schedule as the shuttles" crap?), most of the new zones were just ugly, even by EQ's standards...no thanks.

To me, "Classic" ends at level 50.

[Shjade]

Exception: Drolvargs.

Drolvargs are great.

[iruinedyourday]

I miss the days where everyfrog in lguk is dead on spawn and you could freely walk the halls chatting and loitering with the level 50s with sweet gear. All under the feet of newbie diaper wearing trolls clubbing frogs and getting one shotted by random npcs in the bubling swamp above it.

[captnamazing]

I miss the days where everyfrog in lguk is dead on spawn and you could freely walk the halls chatting and loitering with the level 50s with sweet gear. All under the feet of newbie diaper wearing trolls clubbing frogs and getting one shotted by random npcs in the bubling swamp above it.

beautiful... rly brought a tear to my eyes

[Mojo24]

The last sentence is the tell. You gave away your game OP. You were looking for something to bitch and trifle about how we roll here.

The only part that is missing is, you forgot to say how we all live in our mom's basement.

Hey man, I was a hella neckbeard while here. I blasted through 1-60, using vacation days and disregarded my social life.

I then farmed everything from HS to Seb, to Chardok and even leveled a bard to sell PL. Bard was stupid easy to level though.

I've probably made more progress in 6 months than some people have in years here. I gained around 5% bf and lost a lot my gains thanks to a shitty EQ diet, no sleep and skipping the gym and cardio to farm pixels. My coworkers also started to call me out for slacking in the office and out of the office when I worked from home.

So. Nah dude, I roll like a p99er.

[ridiculousmoose]

1001th thread about boxing...

[Secrets]

For me... it's the UI and amount of buttons you have to press on modern EQ with all its expansions.

Here's a UI from 2015:
http://i.imgur.com/JPeWD17.png

Here's one from 2002:
http://i.imgur.com/vwvWMay.jpg

Need I say more?

[Swish]

yikes

[jcr4990]

I've been in this debate a few times over the past few months on the live forums leading up to the completely failed launch of the shitshow that is the latest round of progression servers.

Instancing did not kill Everquest. The people that were "harmed" by instancing were either RMT, who make money off of scarcity and the ability to deny access to content to others, and trolls who get off on taking from other players but don't want to play a real PvP game like Ultima Online (at the time).

Instancing did not make the encounters easier. It did not change the amount of hitpoints targets had. It just meant that you didn't have to deal with getting griefed (as anyone who has been a few guilds behind the top in PoP will tell you, people killing triggers at 2am so your guild couldn't flag was ridiculous).

The "evidence" cited by many people who think instancing ruined the game is dubious at best. They claim that EQ subs dropped off a lot when instancing was released. This is kinda true, but it ignores a lot of other things that were going on at the time. Many mechanical updates were made to the game around the release of GoD that made it impossible to play on many older computer. Some people were faced with upgrades of hundreds of dollars or buying a whole new computer in order to continue to play. Also, many of the mechanical changes completely broke many zones. There were screen shots of my guilds main tank sitting in Fire with literally every monster in field two on him, but not able to get to him because they had fallen below the world.

There was also the launch of the WoW beta, which took many people from my guild and most of my RL friends that played EQ. This was, I think, the biggest killer to EQ. Althought WoW wouldn't launch officially for another 9 months or so, new people were being added to the beta every couple of weeks it seemed, which took a huge chunk out of EQ. It's worth noting that many of my friends cited instancing as a top 5 reason they picked WoW over EQ.

I never understood why people thought Bazaar was such a bad thing. It made trading easier. You could still negotiate with traders, i often did.Boom. Hit the nail on the head. EQ was awesome in PoP. Could argue it fell off from there but I even enjoyed OoW a lot. After that I kinda stopped enjoying it very much and quit around Prophecy of Ro. People point fingers at bazaar and pok books and instancing. What really "killed EQ" is WoW. (Which btw is a game with lots of instances and an even easier version of the bazaar)

[Frudrura]

I like that, I think it is true, WoW killed EQ.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

Cucumbers made an exasperated post a couple months ago about community. Community isn't some deep thing, it can be as simple as having to ask someone for a port, or if they can help you locate your corpse, or when you give a player a buff that lasts not for hours, but just for the next half hour.

Little things that kept us in touch in order for the game to be played better. The need for those things died as port books entered the game, and some ridiculous long last buffs like KEI.

This is also the argument against boxing. Boixing decreases the need for that kind of need for other people.

And the bazaar killed it too. Quick little chats you have with a seller = community. Buying off an afk bot = none.

It is a complicated issue but wanted to chime in. imo, part of why classic works is, you kind of have to deal with people to play the game except for a few classes. I played swtor a few years ago, and got max level and good gear w/o ever interacting with anyone. classic eq makes that very hard, and kind of stupid, to play that way. It makes you have little contacts with people. And that's community. O know when I give someone a clarity, I'm giving them a rather short buff. Not something that will last 2 hours. I know when I get a sow, same thing. It keeps us always making contact as part of the game.

And that need to stay in touch, however trivial begins at the start. It's baked into the classic cake. my view.

[LostCause]

nowadays you can box a raid np.

if they just had it limited to one char boxed then... yea i dont see problem i mean back in 1999 it was rare to see someone boxing more then 1 char anyway.

[myriverse]

Cucumbers made an exasperated post a couple months ago about community. Community isn't some deep thing, it can be as simple as having to ask someone for a port, or if they can help you locate your corpse, or when you give a player a buff that lasts not for hours, but just for the next half hour.

Little things that kept us in touch in order for the game to be played better. The need for those things died as port books entered the game, and some ridiculous long last buffs like KEI.

This is also the argument against boxing. Boixing decreases the need for that kind of need for other people.

And the bazaar killed it too. Quick little chats you have with a seller = community. Buying off an afk bot = none.

It is a complicated issue but wanted to chime in. imo, part of why classic works is, you kind of have to deal with people to play the game except for a few classes. I played swtor a few years ago, and got max level and good gear w/o ever interacting with anyone. classic eq makes that very hard, and kind of stupid, to play that way. It makes you have little contacts with people. And that's community. O know when I give someone a clarity, I'm giving them a rather short buff. Not something that will last 2 hours. I know when I get a sow, same thing. It keeps us always making contact as part of the game.

And that need to stay in touch, however trivial begins at the start. It's baked into the classic cake. my view.
"Community" died before the port books, and this was the reason the port books started in the first place. Fewer and fewer people were usually in bind areas, and people needed travel.

And it was pretty much the same in EC tunnel with auctions.

[mr_jon3s]

People need to stop lieing about the bazaar. People tunnelquested, people fought in the arena all the time for fun, and the search window helped out a lot of people finding items.

[Slithor]

On P99 it takes 6-12 months to hit 60?

1-52 in <5 days and the rest in 2 weeks.

[Swish]

1-52 in <5 days and the rest in 2 weeks.

More than that if you're a hybrid or have a job.

[Slithor]

More than that if you're a hybrid or have a job.

I am a shaman, I just luckily have a job I can play at.

[Slithor]

More than that if you're casual.

Fixed.

[captnamazing]

For me... it's the UI and amount of buttons you have to press on modern EQ with all its expansions.

Here's a UI from 2015:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JPeWD17.png[/IMG

Need I say more?

http://i.imgur.com/wcWP01b.gif