GradnerLives
08-05-2015, 05:21 PM
Oft overlooked, this song is a veritable necessity in velious.
That being said, it doesn't seem to be working as most sources suggest, seemingly changed as a result of this thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62622&highlight=cinda%27s) where giegue suggests that maybe it's working too well.
Giegue reported that it was being boosted by instruments which, according to everything I've been able to scrape together, is the correct way for this song to function, yet it seems like the decision was made to greatly reduce the effectiveness of this song by removing the ability to boost it with wind instruments.
In the same thread Giegue makes an excellent point:
usually when an instrument doesn't modify a song, then that instrument is required to sing it (like with the bard invis/levi/group dispel songs):
Typically songs without instrument modifiers require the instrument, and yet this one doesn't.
Furthermore, many wayback'd sites appear to list it as benefitting from a wind instrument.
From EQLizer (https://web.archive.org/web/20000620123241/http://gameznet.com/eq/spells/bard.html):
11- Cinda's Charismatic Carillon - Adds the targeted NPCs faction to you.
Uses a wind instrument, can be sung for lesser effect.
From EQSongs (https://web.archive.org/web/20010413231922/http://www.eqsongs.com/Songs/Song11.htm):
The size of each faction rank seems to be different so the song may raise you anywhere from 0 to 2 ranks. Using a wind instrument seems to enhance the effect slightly. Using a magic flute will add more faction then a store bought flute.
Some of these go out of our era a bit but there are some supporting comments on the Caster's Realm thread on this song (https://web.archive.org/web/20030109181311/http://eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1034):
pointless without a decent instrument
just recently, I was selling something to a vendor for 5.5pp, and decided to see if the song would make a difference. I equipped my wind instrument, played the song, and the sell price went up to 6.4pp... so, yeah, this song does have a very good effect.
Aluren
22 bard on Zeb
I understand the implications of a bard being able to stack 1000-1500 faction points, but there appears to be nothing in the history of EQ's resources that says anything to the contrary.
The song's effect has only ever been listed as 120(lvl11)-610(lvl60) and there isn't a single website that says wind instruments have no effect on this value. Many pages reference different jumps, with some suggesting deep scowling to dubious is possible, others saying that indifferent will only jump to amiable, some saying that apprehensive will jump to amiable, and I suspect that this simply stems from people using different instruments at different levels when making their assessment (if using an instrument at all).
Similarly, I've checked all of the patch log (http://www.tski.co.jp/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=cinda&submit=Search%21&idxname=everquest&max=20&result=normal&sort=score) sources (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html) and haven't been able to find any mention of the song anywhere. While this could simply be a result of a single song change being too minor to list on its own, there doesn't appear to be any proof of this song having instrument mods added at a later date and a decent amount of information indicating it was affected by wind instruments.
I would personally gain from this change, so feel free to tear it apart, but I just can't find a single source that says instrument mods don't work and I can't find a single source that says the song does less than the 120-610 faction value range at base level. I have found a number of sources that say both of those things are true.
It seems we have an absence of evidence for the way the song currently works on blue and red. That much we can say for sure. There isn't one source that corroborates the no wind mod portion of the song.
It also seems as though we came to the current functionality based on a feeling that it was too powerful, despite a pretty surmountable stack of evidence saying it was right on target for classic immersion.
Thoughts?
That being said, it doesn't seem to be working as most sources suggest, seemingly changed as a result of this thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62622&highlight=cinda%27s) where giegue suggests that maybe it's working too well.
Giegue reported that it was being boosted by instruments which, according to everything I've been able to scrape together, is the correct way for this song to function, yet it seems like the decision was made to greatly reduce the effectiveness of this song by removing the ability to boost it with wind instruments.
In the same thread Giegue makes an excellent point:
usually when an instrument doesn't modify a song, then that instrument is required to sing it (like with the bard invis/levi/group dispel songs):
Typically songs without instrument modifiers require the instrument, and yet this one doesn't.
Furthermore, many wayback'd sites appear to list it as benefitting from a wind instrument.
From EQLizer (https://web.archive.org/web/20000620123241/http://gameznet.com/eq/spells/bard.html):
11- Cinda's Charismatic Carillon - Adds the targeted NPCs faction to you.
Uses a wind instrument, can be sung for lesser effect.
From EQSongs (https://web.archive.org/web/20010413231922/http://www.eqsongs.com/Songs/Song11.htm):
The size of each faction rank seems to be different so the song may raise you anywhere from 0 to 2 ranks. Using a wind instrument seems to enhance the effect slightly. Using a magic flute will add more faction then a store bought flute.
Some of these go out of our era a bit but there are some supporting comments on the Caster's Realm thread on this song (https://web.archive.org/web/20030109181311/http://eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1034):
pointless without a decent instrument
just recently, I was selling something to a vendor for 5.5pp, and decided to see if the song would make a difference. I equipped my wind instrument, played the song, and the sell price went up to 6.4pp... so, yeah, this song does have a very good effect.
Aluren
22 bard on Zeb
I understand the implications of a bard being able to stack 1000-1500 faction points, but there appears to be nothing in the history of EQ's resources that says anything to the contrary.
The song's effect has only ever been listed as 120(lvl11)-610(lvl60) and there isn't a single website that says wind instruments have no effect on this value. Many pages reference different jumps, with some suggesting deep scowling to dubious is possible, others saying that indifferent will only jump to amiable, some saying that apprehensive will jump to amiable, and I suspect that this simply stems from people using different instruments at different levels when making their assessment (if using an instrument at all).
Similarly, I've checked all of the patch log (http://www.tski.co.jp/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=cinda&submit=Search%21&idxname=everquest&max=20&result=normal&sort=score) sources (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html) and haven't been able to find any mention of the song anywhere. While this could simply be a result of a single song change being too minor to list on its own, there doesn't appear to be any proof of this song having instrument mods added at a later date and a decent amount of information indicating it was affected by wind instruments.
I would personally gain from this change, so feel free to tear it apart, but I just can't find a single source that says instrument mods don't work and I can't find a single source that says the song does less than the 120-610 faction value range at base level. I have found a number of sources that say both of those things are true.
It seems we have an absence of evidence for the way the song currently works on blue and red. That much we can say for sure. There isn't one source that corroborates the no wind mod portion of the song.
It also seems as though we came to the current functionality based on a feeling that it was too powerful, despite a pretty surmountable stack of evidence saying it was right on target for classic immersion.
Thoughts?