WTF is the deal with Harmony!

[mystang89]

Just that. What the f!% is the deal with harmony. Sometimes it will pacify whatever is near and sometimes it won't do a damn thing?! I was sitting there soloing the sisters in OOT when I harmonied them and pulled one both came and destroyed me. W.....T.....F? They were harmony...Now my body is in the bottom of the ocean somewhere in OOT. Thanks whoever made harmony, GG.

[Furniture]

i dont remember how it is on this server but i remember back in the day the spell graphic would appear above the main and the surrounding mobs so you know they were pacified

[Swish]

i dont remember how it is on this server but i remember back in the day the spell graphic would appear above the main and the surrounding mobs so you know they were pacified

Yep that's how it is here. Make sure there's no hidden ones behind trees etc OP.

[Alluveal]

Just that. What the f!% is the deal with harmony. Sometimes it will pacify whatever is near and sometimes it won't do a damn thing?! I was sitting there soloing the sisters in OOT when I harmonied them and pulled one both came and destroyed me. W.....T.....F? They were harmony...Now my body is in the bottom of the ocean somewhere in OOT. Thanks whoever made harmony, GG.

My lull is doing the same thing. Casts. Gets a messaged that the mob has been made less aggressive, then both (or more!) come running. I haven't seen that before. I just figured that some mobs can't be lulled? If that's the case, wouldn't they just show an resist message?

[Galelor]

Didn't there use to be 3 ways it could land?
1. Full resist which caused agro
2. Partial resist where the spell doesn't land but no agro is generated.
3. Fully landed.

[Videri]

You know to lull mob A and pull mob B, right? Lulling a mob and them pulling it does nothing; we gotta lull its buddies so they don't assist. Is that the issue?

Also, harmony and other lulls reduce a mob's aggro radius, but do not eliminate it. If it's close enough to another mob, it will still aggro. We're these two mobs close together?

[mystang89]

i dont remember how it is on this server but i remember back in the day the spell graphic would appear above the main and the surrounding mobs so you know they were pacified

Yeah, that's what I normally go by. I cast on the main mob and look at the other mobs to be sure they are pacified which I did here too. The graphic went overtop the other sisters head and everyone was happy in their little dream world. Until a "Flame Lick" came smacking one of them in the face, then it was off to Ranger Gate city where all the little rangers go who don't know what happened to them.

[Alluveal]

yeah, lull a mob.
pull his buddy.

It seems to be happening a lot that the message lands and the mob attacks with a nearby mob. BUT, if it does just reduce (and not eliminate) aggression, it's probably just how the cookie crumbles here. :)

Been using this since early levels and for some reason, it's just failing a lot. Not the outright "failed" message--but successful message + adds. So, will keep an eye on it! Thanks to those who posted.

[SamwiseRed]

you really complaining about an overpowered spell?

[Furniture]

you really complaining about an overpowered spell?

uhh, this is a classic server isnt it? The spell isnt acting like it was back in classic which is what this thread is about so please take your bloody vagina elsewhere.




The spell should be unresistable like it was back in classic and this should be in the bug report section.

[Alluveal]

Just wondering why it seems to be less potent! Have been working around it. (shrug)

[Furniture]

Also, harmony and other lulls reduce a mob's aggro radius, but do not eliminate it. If it's close enough to another mob, it will still aggro. We're these two mobs close together?

That could be the issue. I know that the orc camps in EC you could split just fine with harmony and if you cant do that on p99 then there is a problem.

[Susvain2]

i thnik theyre guild leader is a bit of a bozo and no one ever sticks around

just my 2c

[Tasslehofp99]

Harmony is unresistable.

However, certain spawns (usually only static ones) are set up just in the right manner that for some reason harmony doesn't work. Also, some spawns are linked.

For instance, the 2 static spawns on the wooden bridge in KC RIGHT before LCY. Those two mobs are impossible to split with harmony. However, you CAN harmony then and run right past them on either side...going thru the center will cause harmony to fail for some reason and both mobs will still agro even though they are harmonied.

[mystang89]

I used it again today in Mistmoore Castle on two mobs next to each other at the pond. I could clearly see them, they both had the graphics over the head and I just can't see why these two mobs which are by the wall would be tethered together but none of the rest are. I used it and both came running to me asking for all my money.
Fortunately I had a group with me and promptly beat the stuffing out of them.

[kaev]

I used it again today in Mistmoore Castle on two mobs next to each other at the pond. I could clearly see them, they both had the graphics over the head and I just can't see why these two mobs which are by the wall would be tethered together but none of the rest are. I used it and both came running to me asking for all my money.
Fortunately I had a group with me and promptly beat the stuffing out of them.

Those two stand very close together, they might be close enough together to still social agro despite Harmony even if not linked. Harmony and Lull line do not eliminate mob agro, they reduce the agro radius. Agro radius is still modified by relative level, so the lower the level of your puller the more likely they'll be close enough to get agro.

[Alluveal]

I agree that some mobs might be close enough together, but mobs that were once harmo'able do not seem that way anymore. At least to me. But, I don't know. It's a mystery!

[YendorLootmonkey]

Those two stand very close together, they might be close enough together to still social agro despite Harmony even if not linked. Harmony and Lull line do not eliminate mob agro, they reduce the agro radius. Agro radius is still modified by relative level, so the lower the level of your puller the more likely they'll be close enough to get agro.

This.

Earlier levels, you can harmony the two mobs guarding the bridge into the castle in Mistmoore and if you tag one from directly in front of them, they will both come because the one you tag doesn't clear the reduced social aggro radius before the next server tick. If you tag the leftmost one from the side and pull it away from the right one, there's a better chance of it not aggroing the right one since it's relative distance increases faster and it's less likely to be in range at the next server tick.

The ability to pull these mobs solo with harmony from straight out in front of them increases as you level, as explained by Kaev.

You can also see this happen with Calm/Lull Animal in Kedge when you're trying to split the fish in the first room... when I first started soloing there around level 41-42, I had to pretty much Lull everything and could only pull a fish that pathed directly in front of the zoneout tunnel if there were no fish just above or below it. As I leveled up, that became less of a concern.

[Aviann]

Try using positioning to pull instead of a spell. It is only a theory of mine that has been hard to disprove thus far, but I find proximity aggro works a hell of a lot better than tagging a mob with ranged or spells when it comes to 'close together' spawns that are paci'd or harmony'd.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

So many spells are overpowered, the lull line sticks out.

But I think most non-mez cc spells should be more in line with these spells. Mez spells always hit pretty good. But I remember charm, mem blur, lulls, and roots being 50/50 as far as effectiveness goes.

lull line spells should be a gamble. The group should ask itself if it feels lucky.

[Merekai]

I was under the impression Harmony was not something mobs are able to resist, and there is no message given as to the success or failure of it because of that reason.

Chev

[kaev]

Aye Merekai, on live Harmony would work without fail on any mob up to 5 levels about yours (there was the +6 level hardcap on landing spells on NPCs) because it is classed as "beneficial" and so there is no resist. You could still get social agro as a result of mobs being close together, with "how close is too close?" being a function of relative level between the puller and the mobs. There were said to be linked mobs as well, that would always come together regardless of Harmony/Lull/level, but I never encountered anything like that doing group content casually.

On live in Kunark era the Lull line was less effective than here because of it being resisted more and crit resisted more AND because most people didn't know to jack their charisma to reduce crit resist chance. Basicly Lull line was risky as hell unless mobs were at least 5 or 6 levels lower than the caster, and even then things could get exciting in a big hurry. Most people wiped a couple groups early on and then swore off the spells. Between the marginal utility and lack of player knowledge & skill there were more jokes about Lull-line than there were uses of it.

At some point after PoP came out (iirc) they made Lull line more powerful but put limits on its use as well. They reduced crit resist chance to something like 1/3 of what it had been, and iirc they eliminated a hidden increase to resist chance that had been present which had the effect of further reducing crit resists because there were fewer resists that could crit. They also introduced hard level caps for each of the spells to limit their use. At that point any spell in the Lull line above Lull itself became easymode pulling for blue-con mobs that didn't exceed the level cap on the spell (Lull itself didn't reduce agro radius enough to be very useful.)

There were other changes to agro along the way, to the point that a skilled (knowledgeable) player could facepull singles & doubles in a lot of dungeon content without the benefit of agro reducing spells. Interestingly, that made for some damned fine warrior pullers, most of whom had learned their stuff as monks or SKs in earlier days.

[WolfsongReborn]

Didn't there use to be 3 ways it could land?
1. Full resist which caused agro
2. Partial resist where the spell doesn't land but no agro is generated.
3. Fully landed.


Not with Harmony. I played a druid and soloed a ton back in the day on live and thus used Harmony quite a bit. I never experienced the weird agro of mobs and failure of the spell to land on them. It wasn't a spell that could agro or be resisted. It never was.

Countless times on P99 I'll Harmony a trio of mobs on my ranger, pull and get 1, 2 or all 3 even after the graphic has clearly landed on all 3 targets.

Something is definitely different in the way it works here on P99. It's one of those spells I used so often that the difference here is quite obvious.

[Scoresby]

Aye Merekai, on live Harmony would work without fail on any mob up to 5 levels about yours (there was the +6 level hardcap on landing spells on NPCs) because it is classed as "beneficial" and so there is no resist. You could still get social agro as a result of mobs being close together, with "how close is too close?" being a function of relative level between the puller and the mobs. There were said to be linked mobs as well, that would always come together regardless of Harmony/Lull/level, but I never encountered anything like that doing group content casually.

On live in Kunark era the Lull line was less effective than here because of it being resisted more and crit resisted more AND because most people didn't know to jack their charisma to reduce crit resist chance. Basicly Lull line was risky as hell unless mobs were at least 5 or 6 levels lower than the caster, and even then things could get exciting in a big hurry. Most people wiped a couple groups early on and then swore off the spells. Between the marginal utility and lack of player knowledge & skill there were more jokes about Lull-line than there were uses of it.

At some point after PoP came out (iirc) they made Lull line more powerful but put limits on its use as well. They reduced crit resist chance to something like 1/3 of what it had been, and iirc they eliminated a hidden increase to resist chance that had been present which had the effect of further reducing crit resists because there were fewer resists that could crit. They also introduced hard level caps for each of the spells to limit their use. At that point any spell in the Lull line above Lull itself became easymode pulling for blue-con mobs that didn't exceed the level cap on the spell (Lull itself didn't reduce agro radius enough to be very useful.)

There were other changes to agro along the way, to the point that a skilled (knowledgeable) player could facepull singles & doubles in a lot of dungeon content without the benefit of agro reducing spells. Interestingly, that made for some damned fine warrior pullers, most of whom had learned their stuff as monks or SKs in earlier days.

I haven't found anyone who spoke about this (or knew anyone else that did this back in the day), but there was a bug with lull where if you stood near max range and chain cast lull on a target until critical resist, you would often get a single mob to come from a pack. I have no idea what mechanic was involved, but I remember using it to pull singles from the king camp in Sol B and in CoM on my paladin. It almost seemed as if your level was treated as max level when casting from range. Definitely buggy and repeatable.