Is Tigir's Insects Good For Anything?

[loramin]

The Shaman AoE slow (Tigir's Insects) has always struck me as completely worthless. Is it, or are there any niche cases where it's actually useful?

[skwayb]

Good for faction work when in an AE group. On live a Ranger friend used to pull tons of mobs in Nurga/Droga. I would AE Slow as many times as I could, then cast poison rains before the Wizard in the group would nuke them all and we would clean up the stragglers. I did this mainly when I had Torpor.

It really shouldn't have had a 4 mob limit. It should have just had a small range. I wouldn't get as many faction hits due to the mob limits of our Rains (Since AE Slow won't give you a faction hits since it does no damage) but you do what you can since we don't have many ae spells.

I would also use AE Slow sometimes when I was doing the CC in a group if there were multiple adds. Cast Tigirs, root park as I am getting hammered on then hit with Turgur's on each mob so I had time to recover if root broke. All while I was casting Torpor on myself.

[BlkCamel]

The Shaman AoE slow (Tigir's Insects) has always struck me as completely worthless. Is it, or are there any niche cases where it's actually useful?

Can be useful in places like Seb King camp if a multi pull comes in, be prepared for lots of agro. Also can be used for mass agro when powerleveling. I didn't find the spell useful until Luclin raids Vex Thall and SSRA. :D

[quido]

Repeatedly casting a Targeted AE (such as Tigir's) into a large pack of mobs will make it repeatedly hit the same 4 mobs every time.

[Danth]

It's not uncommon to encounter a situation where the area effect slow can be useful. Heck, it can give fair service on the average pull in Place of Fear or Hate. Unfortunately, Shamans tend to have little room on their spellbar to spare for something they might need. Consequently the spell typically isn't up when it's needed. As with all spells, it's nice to fill out your spell book, but if you don't have this one you can certainly live without it.

Danth

[Rika]

I use it in Hate and HS mostly. Saves the sitting casters or clerics getting eaten on big pulls and helps with CC, I wouldn't be without it tbh. It's saved a wipe on numerous occasions.

[Daldaen]

Repeatedly casting a Targeted AE (such as Tigir's) into a large pack of mobs will make it repeatedly hit the same 4 mobs every time.

Depends on mob placement but if the mobs are static and you continue targeting the same one this is true.

As others mention, 3-4 mob pulls in Plane of Fear/Hate and Seb/HS (assuming you've burned their HTs) is a good place to use it. Expect to get beat down afterwards ( though hopefully by all slowed mobs), until enchanters/bards mez CC or until casters root CC.

[loramin]

Cool, so there actually is a use for it; thanks all.

[Nirgon]

Roll torpor when big inc called -> aoe slow -> save clothies-> profit

Buying enchanter some time when a fuck up happens is life and death in group

[williestargell]

Nirgon's point is spot on.

The primary use of AE slow is to draw the mobs away from enchanters and put them on a torpor shaman that can tank them while the enchanter mezzes them up or some other class roots them.

It's even better on a raid than it is in a group if the puller brings too many to camp.

[iruinedyourday]

Tigirs is handly my favorite pve spell of all time!

To danth, in grouping I have it up every time. In a group you don't even need single target slow with this.

To the guy below nirgon, tigirs is why I gave up on my chanter and rolled a shaman. In HS south, my sham pal would use this and as I'd scramble to make sure everything was mezd, I'd realize it didn't even need to be :(

Such a great spell.

[fohkure]

I use it a lot for power leveling people. you cast that a few times on a group of mobs and you'll keep absolute aggro until they die. I'll pull 20 or so mobs, slow them a few times, then let whoever i am PL'ing, kill them. it's not as efficient as single pulling stuff and blinding them to keep aggro, but it's much easier on low level mobs.

I also use it quite a bit in fear/hate when large groups are constantly being pulled. It's much more efficient than single targeting everything. the difference in the slow rate % compared to how fast the mobs die is pretty negligible... IE, they die so fast, it really doesn't make a huge difference in how much more damage the tank is taking.

at 60 with max xp, i mem it sometimes as a sacrifice for the good of the raid/group. sometimes, just sometimes.... if you pull everything on to yourself and die, you'll give the group enough time to handle the situation, or at least evac/gate. if you can at least save the cleric, it's xp well lost. it doesn't always work, but you're probably going to die anyways, so what the hell. if you can get torpor up, you can last a decent span of time usually.

[curtischoy]

(Since AE Slow won't give you a faction hits since it does no damage)

I don't think that this is true. You can heal/buff one person and get faction hits, so why would a no dmg debuff be any different? I did a Droga AE a few weeks ago on my chanter and all I did was AE stun and I'm pretty sure I got faction hits for every mob.

To get faction hit for everything you could have just healed/buffed the person that was getting hit.

[Teneran]

I don't think that this is true. You can heal/buff one person and get faction hits, so why would a no dmg debuff be any different? I did a Droga AE a few weeks ago on my chanter and all I did was AE stun and I'm pretty sure I got faction hits for every mob.

To get faction hit for everything you could have just healed/buffed the person that was getting hit.

You're correct, you will get a faction hit for de-buffing a mob, you don't have to do damage. A corollary to this is you will also get a faction hit for buffing someone who is actively aggroed to a mob.

[Erica]

I always have this slow up. I use it every time 3+ mobs are coming, and depending on the group makeup or where we are I'll even use it on just two mobs.

First off, this spell slows for 50% which is perfectly fine for any regular grinding area. Even bard slow at 31% works well enough. If mobs come in hasted or you lack CC, then this is great to use even on only two mobs. The tank peels one, the rest are aggro'd onto you while they are either CC'd by others or you can run them away a bit to be rooted.

Another good thing is, this spell isn't even a waste of mana because togors is 175 mana and this is 350. You also get them slowed more than twice as quickly. Your main job is to slow everything asap, and that is what this spell does. I don't understand why so many don't use it or think it is bad.

[Fanguru]

Swimming against the current here, but I find this spell useless.

If the mobs pulled are a threat (Hate, HS, Velk, Seb), some will resist Tirgir (never use that on seb shrooms). You have to torpor yourself which is an extra 200 mana, you give up on mobility, spend a lot of mana on the spell itself, have to spend a spell gem slot for it and you will get interrupted from tanking. It's also only 50% instead of a 75% slow.

If the mobs pulled are no threat, the enchanter does not need your overaggro to lock them down.

In any situation, I would rather lock down mobs alternating roots and turgur, figuring out which mobs get their MR debuffed and spreading them around so they can be picked one by one.


I am not saying others are wrong. From my experience and for my playstyle, I just find tigir inefficient.

[Erica]

I don't have any issues with resists, and when I do maybe one of them will resist meaning it wasn't a waste. When you talk about HS, Velk, and Seb there are very few situations you won't want to use it there. Seb, sure don't use it on shrooms or juggs. In Velks don't use it on the high level golems.

But these are the exceptions, not the norm. For general grouping, this spell is amazing. Also you won't always have a chanter, and it is better to lock down 3 or 4 slowed mobs than 3 or 4 unslowed mobs.