Rules Clarification Pls

[MycahDavith]

Seeking rules clarification pls:

5. Real Money Trades (RMT) are not allowed on Project 1999.
Currency includes all forms of real world OR virtual currency...

Specifically referring to using "bot" currency. Twitch.tv is ever growing, and in my opinion a great way to interact with viewers in many, many aspects.
Any good Twitcher will tell you that interacting with and rewarding your viewers is a great way to maintain viewer loyalty, and simply a way of saying thanks to your viewers.

Now to my point. There are several moderator/bot applications and programming that can be done to have a give-away or raffle. Normally you would want to reward viewers who have spent time in your channel; this can be quantified by having the bot program periodically issue a virtual currency. These programs are highly customizable and allow you to call the currency whatever you desire. You wouldn't want to have a give-away open to anyone who comes into your channel solely for the purpose of attaining an item and never coming back. Thus you want to limit the give-away to those who have accumulated points/money/currency, rather than to some random opportunist.

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So let’s make this simple:

Viewer A has accumulated 2000 "points" by simply hanging out and actively participating in the Twitch channel over a given period of time. These points are not purchased or earned in any way other than by simply hanging out. Sometimes mini-games, or trivia, etc., etc can earn a player additional points. Maybe a viewer is very active and helpful and the streamer wants to provide additional points. (I realize you would have no way of regulating someone's channel and verifying the legitimacy of how the virtual currency was obtained.)

Streamer Joe has a few items he would like to give back to his Twitch community by doing a give-away/raffle.

Streamer Joe tells his viewers: "Type in keyword 'raffle'; it will cost you 50 points to purchase a raffle ticket". After entries are compiled, winner is player "A".

In game they meet and the winner receives his the give-away item.
====

I have been running a bot program for a few months, and regular viewers are currently building up points. I am planning having Steam give-aways for other games, codes, as prizes and rewards.

But wanted to clarify how it would work for in-game items on P99.
Is this legal?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

(Repost from original thread https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299)

[Burrito]

Hey Mycah

I'm very sorry, but we are not going to authorize in game give-always as incentives related to streams.

Their stance on such activities may have changed since I asked- but this is the response I got.

[Itap]

As long as there is no exchange of actual real life money, I don't see the staff having a problem with this. Essentially you are giving away EQ items to people who have "earned" points by hanging out in your twitch channel? You are not gaining anything by this, except perhaps loyalty of viewers to your twitch, seems legit.

Edit - ^ Appears I was wrong

[Samoht]

So you're trading an in-game item for an out of game currency that a user has accumulated by giving you views on Twitch that has provided you with ad revenue for streaming? Definitely sounds like payola to me. Maybe if you didn't require points for raffle tickets and just gave one to everybody viewing.

[Champion_Standing]

Calling all young P99 lawyers, someone needs to take this case!

[Itap]

an out of game currency

But what currency? Fictitious points?

[tristantio]

Paying in game items/pp for viewers is a roundabout way of RMT (you want viewers for popularity aka advertising revenue in most cases).

If that were allowed, why couldn't we just say, hey, give me $100 and I'll do whatever you want in game for the next 2 hours (be it PL or an epic MQ etc.) - I mean, at that point it's not directly selling pp for cash - but its equivalent isn't it? You're exchanging their time/money outside of game for your time/money in game.

[tristantio]

But what currency? Fictitious points?

You mean sort of like bitcoins? Pretty sure bitcoins for EQ coins would definitely be RMT ;)

[MycahDavith]

So you're trading an in-game item for an out of game currency that a user has accumulated by giving you views on Twitch that has provided you with ad revenue for streaming? Definitely sounds like payola to me. Maybe if you didn't require points for raffle tickets and just gave one to everybody viewing. - thanks for the response =)

Not Trading - giving away ( Lawyer edit )

Ad revenue... haha I wish... I'm not that elite yet. ( Not partnered with Twitch - no Sub button )

The points aren't a specific requirement. I can remove that aspect of the "raffle". It was only a concern as a way to legitimize and distinguish between the viewer who is loyal vs. some random schmuck who heard I was doing a give-away and wanted to get lucky. But I guess that's the point of a Raffle huh, to get lucky?

So to that point. If the currency system ( aka Viewer 'Bucks' ) was removed, and it was open to anyone - is this legit then?

I'm only pressing the issue because I have a 5 day weekend coming up.

[Itap]

You mean sort of like bitcoins? Pretty sure bitcoins for EQ coins would definitely be RMT ;)

You cannot use the OPs points for anything besides winning EQ items. Bitcoins have a lot more worth :p

[Samoht]

But what currency? Fictitious points?

Cash from ad revenue. It's the only reason to bolster loyal "viewers."

[tristantio]

Oh - also I recall them saying you cannot trade other game currency (say, WOW gold or live EQ pp) for p99 currency (it's considered RMT). The only exception being blue99 to red99 trades.

So I definitely think this falls in that area, although GMs who are never supposed to partake in RMT in anyway have given out items (Guise of the Deceiver) in response to their twitch viewers putting key words in the chat (I think it was Sirken's stream announcing Velious a month or so ago as the most recent example of this).

[MycahDavith]

I get no money from Twitch AT ALL, ever. Is that my end goal? no. Do I want to Twitch for a living, no. I'm a little more realistic.

Twitch Partnership is not something everyone just gets for streaming.
See:
http://www.twitch.tv/partner/signup

Certain metrics are required.

I stream because I am a very social person - maybe stop by sometime - check it out. It's a lot of fun. I am also very thankful to the people who do hang out.

I could simply just sit in EC tunnel and try to acquire more PP. I'm not that kind of person, anyone who has watched me play/twitch since I have started here can tell you that. I would rather just give some items away to the people I would like to call friends, who hang out, but I want to do it in a fun way. That's just me being me.

Edit - I'm talking low end items here 5k or less value.. High end items I will be Tunnelquesting my ass off =)

[Champion_Standing]

Nobody will ever make any significant amount of ad revenue streaming P99 lol.

[Seltius]

Maybe assign each person a number in your channel and then do a random drawing type thing later and give away in game item or plat/gold. Again that is if the powers that be accept it. But the only way to ensure its fair is to give everyone in channel a chance. Maybe do them random with little to no warning so people hang out just for the chance to chat and that you might do a raffle. Exclude all point/money/other factors to prevent a misconception that there is any money exchange. Maybe do trivia to give people a chance at additional tickets.

Again this all hinges on it being accepted by the GMs/Devs and they may not even accept this since it could open a whole new set of headaches for them.

[Samoht]

So I definitely think this falls in that area, although GMs who are never supposed to partake in RMT in anyway have given out items (Guise of the Deceiver) in response to their twitch viewers putting key words in the chat (I think it was Sirken's stream announcing Velious a month or so ago as the most recent example of this).

Sirken's give away differed from the OPs in two ways:

1) It did not award them with droppable items that were worth anything in game.
2) It did not require them to trade a Twitch currency for extra raffle tickets.

Maybe if you didn't require points for raffle tickets and just gave one to everybody viewing.

Kinda like I mentioned here.

[MycahDavith]

I can certainly understand the concerns about RMT. And as someone has mentioned, there have been give-aways in the past from GM, but also other streamers have done it, and are currently doing it. Not trying to out anyone.
Some people limit it to followers. Anyone can hit the "follow" button. Also streamers have the ability to accept donations.

This can be abused via PL'ing etc., etc.

This topic can possibly open a can of worms. Not sure if GM's can stop people from streaming. Would it be a new rule, "If you play on P99, you are not allowed to stream or accept donations" - that's just asinine.

But back to specific topic.

If the raffle was free and open to ANYONE , follower or not, no "points" required. Is having a raffle/randomized give-away for in-game items legal?

The point system/bot program will not be going away, because as I mentioned I'll be doing give away for Steam games, namely H1Z1. Those give-aways will be point based to loyal viewers only.

While I appreciate the responses, and always encourage intelligent debate, no matter how volatile, official feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Swish]

Nobody will ever make any significant amount of ad revenue streaming P99 lol.

I donated $1 to someone in Kurn's last year. He was thankful but he didn't give me any loot :(

[MycahDavith]

I've been Swished!!! I'm swooning right now :D:):D:)

[Thulack]

Nobody will ever make any significant amount of ad revenue streaming P99 lol.

This. You get like 1$ for every 1000 people that watch a ad.

[Samoht]

And that's how coercing more to watch by offering in-game incentives can be considered RMT.

[MycahDavith]

Two things come with Partnership status with Twitch.tv

1. Ad revenue - which I believe is on a tier'ed payout. This is pennies.
2. Sub Button - which is normally $4.99/mo ( streamer only gets like 1/10th of that - the rest goes to Twitch )

The real money comes from Sponsors and donations directly to the streamer.

Just sayin.

[Baler]

So streaming on twitch if you receive donations or get partnered makes you wonder if it's breaking the rmt rule?
edit: just to clarify i know he was talking about in game giveaways to his viewers / subs.

*facepalm* What a ridiculous topic

By the way it's in the twitch rules that if you're going to have something like tickets that even non subscribers can get them. You can do sub only giveaways but it's finicky do to the law of certain states.

Next thing you know having a job to pay for the internet to farm pixels on p99 will cause people to think they're rmting.

[MycahDavith]

Baler - I think you may be confused on a few points. Or maybe just mixing up terms.
A Follower is not the same as a Sub. Those are two totally different things.
There are various reddit and postings about rules and legality.

I think what you may be referring to is LIMITING the give-away to SUB only. Which may or may not be legal, still debated and not updated currently or being enforced by twitch.

http://www.twitch.tv/user/legal
Section 11 Sub F.

This is not what the nature of this post is asking at all.

[Blux]

Sirken did exactly this during the VOS announcement a month ago. Raffle for in game items.

[Fzhoul]

Mycah I know it's not exactly what you are looking for however, someone did something similar for a charity event that did use real money donations. So if you tweak it to substitute real money for your twitch points, and/or ask permission via gms. I think you'll be ok.

Link from welgrim's charity event: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1653825&postcount=1

See you in game.

[Swish]

Two things come with Partnership status with Twitch.tv

1. Ad revenue - which I believe is on a tier'ed payout. This is pennies.
2. Sub Button - which is normally $4.99/mo ( streamer only gets like 1/10th of that - the rest goes to Twitch )

The real money comes from Sponsors and donations directly to the streamer.

Just sayin.

I'd heard it was a 50/50 split... you get $2.50, Twitch (YouTube/Google/etc) gets $2.50

[Thulack]

I'd heard it was a 50/50 split... you get $2.50, Twitch (YouTube/Google/etc) gets $2.50

Not all parnters gets 50/50. Only the big time streamers get 50/50. Lower tier streamers get a smaller cut. Or at least thats what i remember a streamer saying one time.

[bktroost]

Mycath, the only way to get staff attention is to petition in the forum or ask a guild leader to personally ask staff out of game.

[kenzar]

I always took the spirit of the rule to be: You cannot trade something that has value external to the everquest environment for anything that does have value internal to the everquest environment; or vice versa.

[Oleris]

as long as people aren't donating to your stream for a chance to win something then you are good. The only exception to this rule was when all donations were going to a charity and was given exception from Rogean/sirken himself. If you are just giving plat out for tokens that are earned from staying in your chat room then you are good.