Raid Suspension: TMO (Again)

[arsenalpow]

The most suspended entity in the history of p99 y'all.

Discuss (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1797432#post1797432).

[Herp]

https://murderbymedia2.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/nuffin-muffins.jpg

[Fanguru]

I do not understand why they only get a tiny slap in the wrist everytime.
They keep breaking engage rules they know very well, being petitionquest champions.
Yet they only get a one week suspension on very specific mobs.

Isn't CSR tired of this? Why would TMO stop? Go for one-month suspensions on all targets if you want to enforce rules.

[randomdude01]

This suspension is Detoxx approved.

The best part? The infractions noted in the suspension do not even cover TMO's transgressions over the past week. If you thought that was bad, then lord mercy, hang on to your britches!

[ClownGuild]

TMO suspension

-TMO tracker gets FTE on Druushk (1/13)


IB suspension

-Engaging and killing Drusshk with players that were past entrance at time of pop, on Jan 13

SO Druushk spawns and IB is out in the zone and do not know he is up until an FTE message goes out on Prollapse. Somehow Prollapse got designated a tracker by the GMs and IB ? I mean the Dragon was up when Prollapse got up there and opened the door to setup bind site for our tracker. Rogues do not track Druushk.

It only took Prollapse a little over 2 minutes to run up there. How in the heck did they designate him a tracker and how in the heck is it proven Druushk wasn't up before he left zone in ? It's a 2 minute run with SoW. No one was tracking it.

What we do know is without a doubt IB had been out in the zone since before he went into window killing wurms. So it was easy to prove they had people past zone in when he spawned. That one makes no sense since there is absolutely no way to prove that Dragon wasn't up before Prollapse left zone in. I would love to see an explanation for why that is part of the suspension.

The Gore one I understand. Our mage lost his faction due to some retard logging him in and losing it and it caused an FTE on Gore when Gore Spawned. Fair is fair we sit out Gore.

SW and Hoshkar get moved every repop to kill the easier more prized dragons first. IB does it and TMO does it. SO you might wanna go ahead and suspend IB for the last repop as well. They moved them for the PD pull and still trained them to the zone in and killed parts of both raid forces there. Get ready for more FREE VP loot Class R guilds with keys. Because if moving dragons to keep pulls clean is now established as kiting and they are going back 40 days for suspensions again. Both guilds are gonna have some time off.

[LostCause]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DGGcdZ4KYbA/T5FeDLPuJJI/AAAAAAAACKo/2ofTef2oC0w/s640/good-good-let-the-jimmies-rustle-through-you.png

[zanderklocke]

Should just allow training in VP again. Trying to race to multiple dragons at the same time with more or less only one path to go through, since guilds pull to zone line, makes no sense. Guilds will always do stupid things to each other based on the layout of the zone. Class C is just disappointing.

I'm pretty sure on live people actually killed the dragons one at a time in a reasonable amount of time rather than racing through the zone to get a tag against another guild and then dragging said dragons through each other and the entire zone.

Red server clears of VP are probably more like classic EQ VP clears.

[Nocsucow]

Yeah but on live at the beginning VP took all freaking day to fight through and kill

[Nocsucow]

On red we train and kill the dragons at their spawns pretty much . Only train a few to certain spots ... never to zone

[zanderklocke]

On red we train and kill the dragons at their spawns pretty much . Only train a few to certain spots ... never to zone

More bang for your subscription buck.

[ClownGuild]

Read Sirkens post we didn't attempt to kill Hoshkar and SW after we moved them for the Druushk pull. We dropped them when our kill was done and never attempted to kill them. IB killed both SW and Hoshkar on that repop. We killed PD and Killed Druushk and then left VP to kill our bag limit outside. I get that Sirken wants to get rid of stalling in the raid environment. However TMO was never attempting to stall the mobs to kill them. We simply moved them out of the way of our pull and then never attempted them.

[Prismaticshop]

Considering TMO killed 9 out of the last 12 VP dragons, that suspension is gonna do IB good.

[ClownGuild]

I think a better rule for VP would be (Since it is unique with the number of targets and pathing). If you move a Dragon for a pull of another Dragon then you forfeit any attempts on the mob you move. We let IB have them uncontested after. Much like they trained them to zone in when they moved them for PD and then left VP after on the repop that happened Saturday. Punishing a guild for just executing a pull and then not attempting the mobs just rings kinda hollow.

[Herp]

Read Sirkens post we didn't attempt to kill Hoshkar and SW after we moved them for the Druushk pull. We dropped them when our kill was done and never attempted to kill them.

Surely you /ooc'd that they were not genuine FTEs and that IB could pull and kill one of your 3 FTEd dragons, though, right??

[Tongpow]

inb4 IB eats a week vacation aswell and Asgard has free reign in VP

were obviously living in the darkest timeline folks

[Herp]

Considering TMO killed 9 out of the last 12 VP dragons, that suspension is gonna do IB good.

5 of which were freebies, and considering TMO went like 1 for 15 the week before according to guild threads, bravo. Do you live week to week in real life too?

[ClownGuild]

Surely you /ooc'd that they were not genuine FTEs and that IB could pull and kill one of your 3 FTEd dragons, though, right??

Doyou even understand EQ mechanics ? Serious question. There is a thing called social aggro in EQ. When one aggroed dragon crosses paths with another aggroed dragon they talk very fast to each other and tell each other new people to hate. So had TMO dropped one of the dragons during their pull it would have trained back down to zone in and caused bigger problems (The kind of problems that IB caused on the last repop when they trained them to zone in).

As I said a better rule would be a forfeit of any attempts on the mob or mobs you move to kill other mobs on a repop. It gets rid of this petitionquest and punishing both guilds for simply executing pulls. At this point any time you touch a dragon to move it while you pull another dragon you're getting suspended with this rule even if you intend to stand down on the dragon you move for your pull.

[ClownGuild]

5 of which were freebies, and considering TMO went like 1 for 15 the week before according to guild threads, bravo. Do you live week to week in real life too?

Funny guy. TMO has been kicking IB's butt for the majority of this year. IB had 2 good weeks out of 7 so far.

[Ravager]

TMO is upset that it's getting harder to leapfrog guilds and trivialize content.

[ClownGuild]

TMO is upset that it's getting harder to leapfrog guilds and trivialize content.

Uhm no. Both guilds do the same thing. Seriously. IB did it to kill PD on the last repop. So they are likely going to get suspended as well if this ruling holds up.

[arsenalpow]

I think a better rule for VP would be (Since it is unique with the number of targets and pathing)

There's nothing unique. It's another everquest zone with stuff to kill. TMO/IB have created this raid atmosphere where it's just SOP to train everything away every time then zerg the target and hopefully win. Then if you don't successfully down the target a train comes back and eats everyone. Hate, Fear, VS, Trak, VP, and as of Sunday Vox are all train and kill targets.

Yes, it's faster, I get it, but your "raid strategy" shouldn't be able to impede someone else's attempt. You're free to execute whatever strategy you deem fit for the target but if it interferes with an opposing raid force in any way it should be punished. Even if you're just moving the dragon out of the way and recusing yourself from going after the target it's still interfering with IB's attempt right? You have to at least acknowledge that.

[Swish]

GL to <Asgard> on next Class C spawns <3

[arsenalpow]

Uhm no. Both guilds do the same thing. Seriously. IB did it to kill PD on the last repop. So they are likely going to get suspended as well if this ruling holds up.

Also doesn't make it ok. Tit for tat isn't a defense.

Just think of how stupid this would be if Taken and BDA were forcefully put in class C. 4-5 guilds in VP sounds like some nightmare scenario.

[Troubled]

How could Sirken do this to Tiggles?

[Ravager]

I bet Sirken giggles when Tiggles wriggles.

[Myrtiz]

Don't they all have alts in Asgard anyways? :p

[ClownGuild]

There's nothing unique. It's another everquest zone with stuff to kill. TMO/IB have created this raid atmosphere where it's just SOP to train everything away every time then zerg the target and hopefully win. Then if you don't successfully down the target a train comes back and eats everyone. Hate, Fear, VS, Trak, VP, and as of Sunday Vox are all train and kill targets.

Yes, it's faster, I get it, but your "raid strategy" shouldn't be able to impede someone else's attempt. You're free to execute whatever strategy you deem fit for the target but if it interferes with an opposing raid force in any way it should be punished. Even if you're just moving the dragon out of the way and recusing yourself from going after the target it's still interfering with IB's attempt right? You have to at least acknowledge that.

False. If you wipe to the dragon nothing comes back. If you actually raided VP you could speak on this topic. Just stay quiet and don't look foolish.

[Tiggles]

How could Sirken do this to Tiggles?

[Troubled]

http://i.imgur.com/O59YQYZ.gif

[Troubled]

Sidenote, doesn't either guild usually ask the other to drop whatever dragon they're going after if they're training it away in the first place?

[Swish]

Also doesn't make it ok. Tit for tat isn't a defense.

Just think of how stupid this would be if Taken and BDA were forcefully put in class C. 4-5 guilds in VP sounds like some nightmare scenario.

Better play it safe Chest, stick with what you know.

[arsenalpow]

There have been plenty of backwash trains in VS pit, CT engages, and Inny engages. My statement wasn't just covering VP. In fact BDA was gift wrapped that Inny kill a while back because IB trained/engaged. When it was clear they were wiping TMO/Taken moved close to pounce, train came back and finished off IB, ate Taken, and a chunk of TMO camped out.

[ClownGuild]

Sidenote, doesn't either guild usually ask the other to drop whatever dragon they're going after if they're training it away in the first place?

It's been attempted before yes. Problem is like I said when the guy moving the dragon drops aggro before the dragon that got pulled dies or charms the puller(or if the puller resists charm) then that dragon heads to zone in as well. It's kinda why IB is in the same boat as us atm. They did the exact same thing on PD on the last repop.

This is for Herb or whoever btw. bored at work so looked through logs.


TMO has killed Hoshkar 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Druushk 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Nexona 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Phara Dar 8 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
IB has done really well on Xygoz and Silverwing killing them 12 out of 20 times =)

Since January 1rst TMO has killed 34 VP targets IB has killed 26.TMO has killed 20 of the 30 spawns of the Big 3 (PD,Druushk, and Hoshkar). Glad I could help you out there buddy. Hopefully you guys get a few kills before the hammer falls on you for the recent repop.

[ClownGuild]

There have been plenty of backwash trains in VS pit, CT engages, and Inny engages. My statement wasn't just covering VP. In fact BDA was gift wrapped that Inny kill a while back because IB trained/engaged. When it was clear they were wiping TMO/Taken moved close to pounce, train came back and finished off IB, ate Taken, and a chunk of TMO camped out.

Difference is VS and CT don't charm to wipe the aggro of the puller. Sometimes pullers resist charm in VP and it doesn't wipe and they are instructed to instantly /q.

[Herp]

Since January 1rst TMO has killed 34 VP targets IB has killed 26.TMO has killed 20 of the 30 spawns of the Big 3 (PD,Druushk, and Hoshkar). Glad I could help you out there buddy. Hopefully you guys get a few kills before the hammer falls on you for the recent repop.
Wasn't IB banned for 1 full week and also gave you a free 5 last week. LMAO. Thats 11 fucking dragons right there. FAIL. And why only include inside VP? Was it Taken who killed more FFA than you 3 out of 4 weeks in December, or was that a different month?

[Herp]

It's been attempted before yes. Problem is like I said when the guy moving the dragon drops aggro

You have the worst reading comprehension in the world.. Hint: Nobody is mentioning dropping agro except for you.

[arsenalpow]

Difference is VS and CT don't charm to wipe the aggro of the puller. Sometimes pullers resist charm in VP and it doesn't wipe and they are instructed to instantly /q.

It's stupid that the dragon attempts a charm from any distance the second he's engaged by another party after FTE. That mechanic seemed quite buggy from my limited VP pulling experience.

Back on topic though, training stuff around shouldn't be the way things get done. It makes a mess for the CSR and it discourages other guilds from making the leap to contest targets.

[randomdude01]

It's been attempted before yes. Problem is like I said when the guy moving the dragon drops aggro before the dragon that got pulled dies or charms the puller(or if the puller resists charm) then that dragon heads to zone in as well. It's kinda why IB is in the same boat as us atm. They did the exact same thing on PD on the last repop.

This is for Herb or whoever btw. bored at work so looked through logs.


TMO has killed Hoshkar 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Druushk 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Nexona 6 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
TMO has killed Phara Dar 8 out of 10 spawns since January 1rst
IB has done really well on Xygoz and Silverwing killing them 12 out of 20 times =)

Since January 1rst TMO has killed 34 VP targets IB has killed 26.TMO has killed 20 of the 30 spawns of the Big 3 (PD,Druushk, and Hoshkar). Glad I could help you out there buddy. Hopefully you guys get a few kills before the hammer falls on you for the recent repop.

Yeah, I guess I'd dig deep and brag about whatever stats I could conjure up too if my guild got reamed so hard for 6 months. It's like you didn't get laid for half a year then got your peepee touched by some girl one night, and then you go brag about being a player to your, pals. Except instead of pals, you brag about it to random elfsim people.

/clap

[ClownGuild]

Wasn't IB banned for 1 full week and also gave you a free 5 last week. LMAO. Thats 11 fucking dragons right there. FAIL. And why only include inside VP? Was it Taken who killed more FFA than you 3 out of 4 weeks in December, or was that a different month?

Uhm that goes both ways. We gave up 4 on the last repop before this one including Hoshkar. You guys got a free Silverwing the regular spawns because we were busy killing Nexona. You are about to get 6 more free ones. Even with those you won't catch us in anything that matters. We are still gearing out faster for Velious than you guys are.

[Ravager]

Just make it so that raid mobs are perpetually up, but invulnerable. GMs get relieved of having to babysit manbabies, and players get to experience the classicness of being murdered by Gore when running to KC.

[ClownGuild]

Yeah, I guess I'd dig deep and brag about whatever stats I could conjure up too if my guild got reamed so hard for 6 months. It's like you didn't get laid for half a year then got your peepee touched by some girl one night, and then you go brag about being a player to your, pals. Except instead of pals, you brag about it to random elfsim people.

/clap

Kinda like the way we reamed IB the 6 months before that ? Sorry some folks took a break during Football season and the Holidays. Glad it made you feel good for awhile. Order has been restored.

[ClownGuild]

Think of those 6 months as a Holiday gift we'll think about giving you one next Holiday season as well.

[ClownGuild]

It's stupid that the dragon attempts a charm from any distance the second he's engaged by another party after FTE. That mechanic seemed quite buggy from my limited VP pulling experience.

Back on topic though, training stuff around shouldn't be the way things get done. It makes a mess for the CSR and it discourages other guilds from making the leap to contest targets.

It's not really a problem or a mess in VP 90% of the time. It's actually the best way to keep aggro off of the guilds involved when done correctly. Which is why I am scratching my head at this being punishable. GMs are now basically going to punish guilds for playing with skill and keeping the zone in safe for guilds during repops.

IB of course still lacks in the skill department and sometimes trains themselves and us. SO I could see the argument of just banning them from VP permanently.

[Cecily]

Really reaching with those infractions lol. I guess we need to take to break to keep your guild from crumbling. So be it

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Almost got my key finished! ASGARD! MOUNT UP!
http://sunnylol.com/images/2013/April/6/515f726a7087d.jpg

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Order has been restored.

in a thread about getting suspended. good stuff

[Fael]

This "engage stall" of silverwing and hoshkar has happened every full repop for the last 4 years. Both guilds use this strategy.

Despite what Sirken says, he has never made it clear that such strategy is off limits in vp until now.

IB of course did the same thing this past Repop. It's not a matter of "this for that" Chest. It's a matter of having a clear set of rules to play in. Sirken has long said that class C can have autonomy in vp to make their own rules. Thus It's incredibly frustrating when the referees step in and make up rules ex post facto and apply them retroactively.

Dolic

[ClownGuild]

in a thread about getting suspended. good stuff

You do realize they are pretty much bogus reasons right ? I mean the Gore one is legit we didn't know that a retard had change his Dragon faction and he got an FTE on Gore. Our fault as a whole for not checking to make sure.

The Druushk/rogue thing. Can't prove Druushk wasn't up before he left zone in. Neither guild knew the dragon was up until the rogue opened the door and got a LoS FTE message. Neither guild was tracking.

IB will be eating a suspension for the other infraction we just got punished for shortly. They moved both Dragons to kill PD on the last repop. It's what happens in VP on repops. I proposed a better rule in this thread to stop the petition questing about it.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

You do realize they are pretty much bogus reasons right ? I mean the Gore one is legit we didn't know that a retard had change his Dragon faction and he got an FTE on Gore. Our fault as a whole for not checking to make sure.

The Druushk/rogue thing. Can't prove Druushk wasn't up before he left zone in. Neither guild knew the dragon was up until the rogue opened the door and got a LoS FTE message. Neither guild was tracking.

IB will be eating a suspension for the other infraction we just got punished for shortly. They moved both Dragons to kill PD on the last repop. It's what happens in VP on repops. I proposed a better rule in this thread to stop the petition questing about it.

So you are saying that the server staff is in IB's pocket then?

[ClownGuild]

So you are saying that the server staff is in IB's pocket then?

Nope. IB will get suspended as well for the same rule Sirken made. I'm saying the rule is dumb and there is a better rule to put in place.

[Detoxx]

We all know this is how IB really gets mobs. 50% of thier "ass whooping" they gave us are due to bogus suspensions. They start getting raped, we get suspended. Happens everytime.

[radditsu]

Disband TMO

[quido]

train wars

more fun

less bullshit

actual test of skill

[ClownGuild]

who is this anon fgt from tmo that continues to blather all over every rnf thread as clownguild. was I right about that being you, Alarti?

Go eat your Wheaties and think up some new conspiracy theories. You have gotten boring.

[arsenalpow]

Go eat your Wheaties and think up some new conspiracy theories. You have gotten boring.

He just wants to see your credentials. You want to be a TMO/VP expert, better step up and ID yourself masked man.

[ClownGuild]

He just wants to see your credentials. You want to be a TMO/VP expert, better step up and ID yourself masked man.

Just call me Goldberg Hollywood and hand me my title.

[Cecily]

I'm really sick of Kunark raiding anyways so thank you IB.

[Ravager]

I'm really sick of Kunark raiding anyways so thank you IB.

You know you don't need to wait to be suspended to take a break, right?

[Cecily]

Corova has these remote control handcuffs for our computers.

[Lyrith]

Honestly, IB did the exact thing. When we are both suspended I'm not even mad. I hope our new Class C guild has enough keys to get some kills. Good Luck in VP this week Asgard! You should have no competition shortly...

[Formshifter]

I do not understand why they only get a tiny slap in the wrist everytime.

because they handle $1|2k3|\|5 RMT racket.

[Ravager]

Honestly, IB did the exact thing. When we are both suspended I'm not even mad. I hope our new Class C guild has enough keys to get some kills. Good Luck in VP this week Asgard! You should have no competition shortly...

BDA won't allow free handouts in VP and go class C to take those dragons from Asgard unless they come to the table to discuss a rotation.

[harnold]

maybe if the raid system wasnt so fucking retarded these kind of threads wouldnt pop up as often

[arsenalpow]

Penalties really should be cumulative with some rate of decay.

The current penalties really have no teeth.

[harnold]

just look at all the garbage everyone has posted above mine, LOL

hats off to you, gms, for the fine end game raid system

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

BDA won't allow free handouts in VP and go class C to take those dragons from Asgard unless they come to the table to discuss a rotation.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/406/trap-card-2.jpg

[Cecily]

Penalties really should be cumulative with some rate of decay.

The current penalties really have no teeth.

I'm thinking 2 months, minimum.

[ClownGuild]

Penalties really should be cumulative with some rate of decay.

The current penalties really have no teeth.

I mean look at what is getting punished. It's not something major.

-An unfactioned mage got an FTE message on Gore and died. IB pulled and killed it. The biggest parties this hurt was anyone not IB that was there for the FFA Gore. It was an FFA Gore because people were CotHing. So the people this should reward will likely see no benefit from it.

-A rogue running up to setup bind site finds out Druushk is already up when he arrives there. No guild was tracking Druushk. IB was out in the zone killing Wurms so they weren't allowed to pull it or kill it. Somehow the rogue that ran up from zone in gets called a tracker. When Druushk could have literally being sitting in that room spawned 20 minutes without anyone knowing. In essence it was a failed pull attempt by the rogue because no one knows when it spawned.

-TMO moved 2 dragons so they wouldn't train to zone in while they killed Druushk. TMO never attempted to pull or kill the Dragons they moved after the Druushk kill and conceding them to IB for the Druushk kill.

Yeah TMO is so evil.

[Cecily]

We're getting suspended for 2 cases of accidental FTE and for raiding like we (Class C) usually does on repops in VP. Seems legit. So evil.

2 months, minimum.

[Ravager]

Somehow the rogue that ran up from zone in gets called a tracker.

What else would you call the character that reports to a guild that the mob is up?

[Cecily]

raiding like we (Class C) usually does

They don't think it be like it is, but it do.

[Cecily]

What else would you call the character that reports to a guild that the mob is up?

Not what the rogue was there for.

[ClownGuild]

What else would you call the character that reports to a guild that the mob is up?

You do realize Rogue's are excellent pullers in VP right ? His FTE message could have been a legitimate pull attempt on a mob IB had no idea was up. They had no rights to the mob since their entire raid was past zone in. They only knew the mob was up when his FTE message went out. Rogues have been used for over a year in VP to pull Dragons since the raid changes.

[Ravager]

I don't give a shit if it's what the rogue was there for or not. If the rogue is there and sees a raid mob up and says "Hey guys, a raid mob is up." Technically he's a tracker. Apparently the GMs think so too. It's not like they haven't ruled against grey area shenanigans before. Consistent ruling is consistent.

[Detoxx]

Dont bother bro, Chest just needs to get the attention off his no integrity loot whore guild that wipes to vs with 50+ and trak with 70+ with no competition. Let BDA have their day.

[Detoxx]

all I see in this thread is a bunch of whiney crybaby tmo cunts. learn to play without getting suspended you dumbass. quit raging over the rules and admit you deserve to have been punished more time in the past than you ever have and that this is a very lenient punishment for your overall cunty behavior on the server.

no, u

[Errakus]

all I see in this thread is a bunch of whiney crybaby tmo cunts. learn to play without getting suspended you dumbass. quit raging over the rules and admit you deserve to have been punished more time in the past than you ever have and that this is a very lenient punishment for your overall cunty behavior on the server.

Biggest douche ever aside from Chest, calling someone else a cunt. Pot meet kettle. :p

[ClownGuild]

all I see in this thread is a bunch of whiney crybaby tmo cunts. learn to play without getting suspended you dumbass. quit raging over the rules and admit you deserve to have been punished more time in the past than you ever have and that this is a very lenient punishment for your overall cunty behavior on the server.

Learn to capitalize the first letter of sentences. Take time and breath. Raging and whining while claiming others are is not the way to do it.

Honestly most of us are not even mad. We just want clarification and a better way of handling this so guilds don't train each other in VP....Or allow training in VP. I mean we do the things we do because training got removed from VP and we don't want to get suspended for accidental aggro at zone in on our pulls. We have had loot raining on us lately we need a break or we will drown from it.

[ClownGuild]

I don't give a shit if it's what the rogue was there for or not. If the rogue is there and sees a raid mob up and says "Hey guys, a raid mob is up." Technically he's a tracker. Apparently the GMs think so too. It's not like they haven't ruled against grey area shenanigans before. Consistent ruling is consistent.

Wrong on all accounts. Any puller can tell you a mob is up too moran.

[Ravager]

Wrong on all accounts. Any puller can tell you a mob is up too moran.

Sirken's post in Raid Discussion tells me otherwise.

[ClownGuild]

Sirken's post in Raid Discussion tells me otherwise.

No Sirken's post says a tracker got FTE on Druushk. Never happened. We just need to clarify that with him.

[Nibblewitz]

Honestly most of us are not even mad. We just want clarification and a better way of handling this so guilds don't train each other in VP....Or allow training in VP. I mean we do the things we do because training got removed from VP and we don't want to get suspended for accidental aggro at zone in on our pulls. We have had loot raining on us lately we need a break or we will drown from it.

Give it up to the only family first class c guild. I have faith that your input will the raid scene.

[Ravager]

No Sirken's post says a tracker got FTE on Druushk. Never happened. We just need to clarify that with him.

Please let us know what he tells you.

[ClownGuild]

Give it up to the only family first class c guild. I have faith that your input will the raid scene.

Does anyone in BDA type coherently without getting angry ? Honest question.

[ClownGuild]

Please let us know what he tells you.

You will likely see it in the Raid Forums.

[Formshifter]

Sirken's post in Raid Discussion tells me otherwise.

sirkens posts change based entirely on what guild he's talking about

[Nibblewitz]

Does anyone in BDA type coherently without getting angry ? Honest question.

I had almost typed out the word "improve" but then I broke my hand for betraying me.

[Ravager]

You will likely see it in the Raid Forums.

Not if he doesn't overturn it.

[ClownGuild]

I had almost typed out the word "improve" but then I broke my hand for betraying me.

Touche. Wish you a speedy recovery.

[ClownGuild]

Not if he doesn't overturn it.

I don't expect the SW/Hosh to get overturned. It's a rule he made. Bad rule but a rule nonetheless. I do expect the same punishment for IB. So I think just for that the VP suspension stands. Just cross your fingers IB's suspension happens before the repawns this weekend. So BDA can enter VP again.

[Ravager]

It must really suck for Sirken to make a decision and have people argue with him about it every single time.

[randomdude01]

[QUOTE=ClownGuild;1797736]

Honestly most of us are not even mad.QUOTE]



http://www.project1999.com/forums/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=183137


26 post so far this morning. Naw dawg, you ain't mad.

[randomdude01]

fail quote but suck it son

[ClownGuild]

[QUOTE=ClownGuild;1797736]

Honestly most of us are not even mad.QUOTE]



http://www.project1999.com/forums/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=183137


26 post so far this morning. Naw dawg, you ain't mad.

I'm not. Read my post. I largely just want clarification and a somewhat better rule that can't be manipulated. You do realize by the letter of that rule he made. Even an accidental FTE on any dragon in VP that doesn't result in a direct pull will get you suspended if you are pulling another Dragon ?

I get that thinking is hard for some of you in IB by the way you get led around by sheep. However, some of us seriously do want a playing field that is fun to play in without thinking about rules 90% of the time.

[Llodd]

[QUOTE=randomdude01;1797777]

I'm not. Read my post. I largely just want clarification and a somewhat better rule that can't be manipulated. You do realize by the letter of that rule he made. Even an accidental FTE on any dragon in VP that doesn't result in a direct pull will get you suspended if you are pulling another Dragon ?

I get that thinking is hard for some of you in IB by the way you get led around by sheep. However, some of us seriously do want a playing field that is fun to play in without thinking about rules 90% of the time.

"Some of us"? Have you been given licence to represent the rest of your guild? or are they so shy they cant post regarding this utter travesty of perceived inconsistent rule abberation. Or maybe they just aint mad

[ClownGuild]

[QUOTE=ClownGuild;1797782]

"Some of us"? Have you been given licence to represent the rest of your guild? or are they so shy they cant post regarding this utter travesty of perceived inconsistent rule abberation. Or maybe they just aint mad

Do you mean aberration ? I want to really digest this question.

[Mead]

[QUOTE=ClownGuild;1797782]

"Some of us"? Have you been given licence to represent the rest of your guild? or are they so shy they cant post regarding this utter travesty of perceived inconsistent rule abberation. Or maybe they just aint mad

The rest of the people from his guild not spewing their tears all over the forums probably just aren't wackjobs. The top 3-4 TMO rnf posters aren't even trolls. They literally cannot help themselves.

[ClownGuild]

[QUOTE=Llodd;1797810]

The rest of the people from his guild not spewing their tears all over the forums probably just aren't wackjobs. The top 3-4 TMO rnf posters aren't even trolls. They literally cannot help themselves.

Heh. I think the wackjobs are clearly represented by BDA in this thread. Don't get them angry for associating that word with TMO.

[Nirgon]

Good.

Come play on red.

[Tasslehofp99]

Said this 3 years ago pulling dragons across vp is dumb and not classic. This is why they started perma rooting dragons on their spawns in velious. Props to ib too they got balls to petition after that gnarly train of vp ent recently.

[ClownGuild]

Said this 3 years ago pulling dragons across vp is dumb and not classic. This is why they started perma rooting dragons on their spawns in velious. Props to ib too they got balls to petition after that gnarly train of vp ent recently.

Yeah my biggest chuckle over this was when I thought "Wow, they petitioned that after the last repop". I mean we could be adults and just have a gentleman's agreement that we won't petition each other over moving things out of the way of pulls and concede the mobs we have to move. I guess getting crushed in VP recently makes them see red though. Oh well they can join us in our week off.

[Manticmuse]

On one hand it's somewhat fascinating how much you care and how much time you will dedicate to digging up statistics and recollecting and reinterpreting events in Norrath, on the other it's incredibly sad. It's so fucking sad that you cannot step away and do something else, care about something else. It's sad, man. It's just sad. Is any of this sinking in yet? Oh well, at least someone tried to wake you up today. Carry on, I guess.

[ClownGuild]

On one hand it's somewhat fascinating how much you care and how much time you will dedicate to digging up statistics and recollecting and reinterpreting events in Norrath, on the other it's incredibly sad. It's so fucking sad that you cannot step away and do something else, care about something else. It's sad, man. It's just sad. Is any of this sinking in yet? Oh well, at least someone tried to wake you up today. Carry on, I guess.

This is a form of entertainment. Just like the game is. It's sad that you can't distinguish that.

[Hastley]

chest,

youre a 40 year old man that wants to argue with other fat fuck 40 year old men on this forum. Why are you so mad ALL of the time?

[Troubled]

All this rage and sadness is great but thread is still awful slow. C+

[cs616]

The rules in VP right now are ridiculous and make it almost impossible for guilds to work on alternate strategies that might alleviate these problems. How does 2 guilds racing for mobs being forced to set up and pull to the same location make any sense? That's like arresting two guys for fighting, locking them in the same cell and then being surprised when they start fighting again. Last time IB moved away from zone to avoid training / unintentional aggro they got suspended.

This is what happens when you have non-raiders crafting rules that box raids into using only one strategy. No CSR VP was fine and I think anyone from TMO or IB that was around then would agree it was a lot more fun. More work and time consuming for sure, but at least it left room for innovation and new strategies. It also gave both guilds an opportunity to take out frustrations on each other by playing the game as opposed to playing petition quest (yes red, I'm aware you have pvp, no need to bring it up.)

The current situation in VP is 100% a result of too many ridiculous stipulations raids must conform to before even thinking about an engage. The rules don't help reduce petitions between IB and TMO, don't help class R guilds break into VP (mostly because none of them have tried), and make the entire experience less fun. Unless the staff gets some strange enjoyment out of enforcing these rules, I really have no idea what purpose they serve.

[Troubled]

^ that's better

[Hastley]

All this rage and sadness is great but thread is still awful slow. C+

awww cuteeeee, chests boyfriend is coming to support him. go sell some more bard PL bitch

[Galelor]

The solution to this problem:
Kill mobs like real men who live in your mother's basement instead of training stuff around like bitch babies.

[Hastley]

The solution to this problem:
Kill mobs like real men who live in your mother's basement instead of training stuff around like bitch babies.

[Troubled]

awww cuteeeee, chests boyfriend is coming to support him. go sell some more bard PL bitch

I don't support rmt.

[Llodd]

[QUOTE=Llodd;1797810]

The rest of the people from his guild not spewing their tears all over the forums probably just aren't wackjobs. The top 3-4 TMO rnf posters aren't even trolls. They literally cannot help themselves.

Its only him maaaaan. (oh no I spellt man wrong)

[Paleman]

as a person who doesn't raid that much you guys sure make the endgame look super fucking depressing. You sad sacks of shit keep me in line. I'm thankful.

[ClownGuild]

[QUOTE=Mead;1797825]

Its only him maaaaan. (oh no I spellt man wrong)

You also quoted incorrectly Sheeple. I see why IB keeps you all anon in RNF.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I never thought I'd say this, but train wars were way better for everyone.

It's schizophrenic to tell Class C to"work it out" and then turn around and reward the exact opposite. It's obvious that PetitionQuest will never stop. Remove the ability to do so from the hands of all players. The current system is an abused joke that degrades everyone involved.

[chief]

So if a guild concedes a mob or mobs, they still get petitioned. I'm sure there was some reason IB conceded the rest of vp during the repop.

[Hastley]

So if a guild concedes a mob or mobs, they still get petitioned. I'm sure there was some reason IB conceded the rest of vp during the repop.

get a life pixel boy

[chief]

get a life pixel boy

whoru

[Hastley]

whoru

someone that has seen a naked woman in real life. Who are you?

[cs616]

The solution to this problem:
Kill mobs like real men who live in your mother's basement instead of training stuff around like bitch babies.

And the award for dumbest post goes to...

The current rules *REQUIRE* guilds to train to the zone in since it is considered a raid infraction to relocate your raid to another portion of the zone (unless that has changed since I last raided, but I don't think it has). Last time IB set up in the pad room they recieved a suspension.

This has nothing to do with the guilds/players strategies or play styles since those strategies and play styles have been dictated to them through the rules. Your post is like getting mad at the car infront of you for going too slow because the posted speed limit is 25mph.

[Nibblewitz]

And the award for dumbest post goes to...

The current rules *REQUIRE* guilds to train to the zone in since it is considered a raid infraction to relocate your raid to another portion of the zone (unless that has changed since I last raided, but I don't think it has). Last time IB set up in the pad room they recieved a suspension.

This has nothing to do with the guilds/players strategies or play styles since those strategies and play styles have been dictated to them through the rules. Your post is like getting mad at the car infront of you for going too slow because the posted speed limit is 25mph.

Can anyone top this dumb post?

[ClownGuild]

Can anyone top this dumb post?

He made a few valid points within all that blabbering. Reminded me of Hokushin when he rages over losing PD.

[kurtis]

IB gets suspended: lolol IB sux, guild falling apart, pullers suck, TMO best guild in history of guilds.

TMO gets suspended: rules are unfair, bring back train wars, GMs obviously favor IB, GMs don't understand raiding, etc etc etc

Nothing to see here folks, just business as usual.

[Cecily]

Can anyone top this dumb post?

That's an IB guy and he made absolute sense. No CSR VP is looking better everyday.

[cs616]

Can anyone top this dumb post?

If you could share your wealth of experience raiding / pulling in VP with me and explain how you propose guilds kill mobs at zone in without training trash away, I'd really appreciate it.

[ClownGuild]

IB gets suspended: lolol IB sux, guild falling apart, pullers suck, TMO best guild in history of guilds.

TMO gets suspended: rules are unfair, bring back train wars, GMs obviously favor IB, GMs don't understand raiding, etc etc etc

Nothing to see here folks, just business as usual.

So you never answered my question in the other thread. How did it feel getting your tail kicked 2 days in a row this weekend ? Had to be some salty wounds after you bragged about IB.

As for your post. I don't believe GM's favor one side or the other. I know without a doubt Sirken doesn't understand all the mechanics involved with what happens in raiding. The rule isn't unfair it's just silly and will result in continuous suspensions for both guilds if it gets applied by the letter. Glad I could help the guy that sits at zone in and turns on auto-attack!

[kurtis]

Day 1: We gave you 5/6 to avoid a suspension.

Day 2: y'all got 4/6, Grats. We had the lead on a few mobs and ended up not getting FTE. Just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

[Hastley]

So you never answered my question in the other thread. How did it feel getting your tail kicked 2 days in a row this weekend ? Had to be some salty wounds after you bragged about IB.

As for your post. I don't believe GM's favor one side or the other. I know without a doubt Sirken doesn't understand all the mechanics involved with what happens in raiding. The rule isn't unfair it's just silly and will result in continuous suspensions for both guilds if it gets applied by the letter. Glad I could help the guy that sits at zone in and turns on auto-attack!

are you really alarti? i just want to know

[kurtis]

Yeah, he's Alarti.

Wasn't too difficult to figure out.

[FatMice]

IB gets suspended: lolol IB sux, guild falling apart, pullers suck, TMO best guild in history of guilds.

TMO gets suspended: rules are unfair, bring back train wars, GMs obviously favor IB, GMs don't understand raiding, etc etc etc

Nothing to see here folks, just business as usual.

I am not in TMO or IB just watching the back and forth, but I am going to try to figure this one out for you.

IB: When they get suspended it seems their intention is to scrap for loot. (Which is normally done when one raid guild is better than another; i.e. see the definition second best.)

TMO: When they get suspended it's after they downed more than 80% of all C Class mobs during an earthquake? Which seems planned so they can focus on the other more important raid bosses.

Both have intent, however one clearly has a better plan of attack. You pick.

All you need to do is connect the dots, read between the lines, etc. All the bullshit of people yelling at other people is useless; especially between guilds between Class R and Class C.

[Kushie]

TMO spin team in full force in this thread. Parrot to us again how many VP dragons you've killed since January 1st? Everyone cares so deeply, you've only been in VP for years. Quick tell us how much IB/Taken/BDA/Gimpatron sucks again, we can't wait hear it for 134th time this year.

Do you think ClownGuild has the same high pitched shrieking rodent voice that Tiggles has? Are they both shrews? ClownGuild is certainly not smart enough to be Alarti. Nevermind Alarti is a stupid fuck too.

[Hastley]

Yeah, he's Alarti.

Wasn't too difficult to figure out.

Sorry, i dont have thousands of hours to spend on these forums analyzing sentence structure. Who are you ?

[Hastley]

oh and thanks for the headsup

[ClownGuild]

Day 1: We gave you 5/6 to avoid a suspension.

Day 2: y'all got 4/6, Grats. We had the lead on a few mobs and ended up not getting FTE. Just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.


You only got 1 of those 2 the 2nd day because we were busy killing Nexona.

"We had a lead"

Funny guy. You do realize with MMOs if you see someone in a spot they may actually not be in that exact spot right ? When a group of people are racing for mobs for instance. It may seem someone is ahead or behind on your screen but it may not be reality.It's all very technical and now I'm hungry.

[ClownGuild]

I'm not Alarti.

[Kushie]

I'm not Alarti.

But do you have a shrieking rodent voice like Tiggles? I hear when virgins congregate, they adopt similar speech patterns after years of no female contact.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

As the person who was on prollapse for that druushk:

no one knew he was up when i ran up there and we made no effort to continue that engage. I don't even think we attempted to engage the mob due to the confusion caused.

[ClownGuild]

But do you have a shrieking rodent voice like Tiggles? I hear when virgins congregate, they adopt similar speech patterns after years of no female contact.

I think you are speaking from personal experience and this is not a good forum to share those experiences young man.

[kurtis]

Wonder how many VP keyed TMO alts are joining Asgard for this week

[ClownGuild]

As the person who was on prollapse for that druushk:

no one knew he was up when i ran up there and we made no effort to continue that engage. I don't even think we attempted to engage the mob due to the confusion caused.

We didn't we just knew IB couldn't kill it. We were going to check with GM's to see when it spawned to figure out if you were past zone in when it popped. IB pulled and killed it and cleared his engage log of you so they made that impossible.

[Absolution]

Wonder how many VP keyed TMO alts are joining Asgard for this week

lol

[ClownGuild]

Wonder how many VP keyed TMO alts are joining Asgard for this week
I've already got 2 of mine tagged.

[Kushie]

I think you are speaking from personal experience and this is not a good forum to share those experiences young man.

Confirmed rodent response. You seem kind of slimey for a rodent though.

[Absolution]

ClownGuild don't be so mad ! at least TMO's spin team will have bunch of times to spam RNF during the weekend lol.

[kurtis]

I've already got 2 of mine tagged.

Of course you do. I hope y'all all do.

[ClownGuild]

Confirmed rodent response. You seem kind of slimey for a rodent though.

Interesting response. Nonsensical to say the least. Doesn't help my hunger. Moving on.

[ClownGuild]

Of course you do. I hope y'all all do.


Asgard 5/6 in their first week of VP incoming. We will leave you Xygoz or Silverwing again for pity.

[ClownGuild]

ClownGuild don't be so mad ! at least TMO's spin team will have bunch of times to spam RNF during the weekend lol.

Who is mad exactly ?

[kurtis]

Asgard 5/6 in their first week of VP incoming. We will leave you Xygoz or Silverwing again for pity.

Please tell all your TMO buds to tag their alts and come along.

[Absolution]

If Sirken suspended TMO in VP, I guess he will trace IP and suspend TMO's alt in Asgard. It means probably 80% of Asgard crew aww...

[ClownGuild]

Please tell all your TMO buds to tag their alts and come along.

Way ahead of you. We have an Asgardian VP force ready.

[ClownGuild]

If Sirken suspended TMO in VP, I guess he will trace IP and suspend TMO's alt in Asgard. It means probably 80% of Asgard crew aww...

Yeah. I wish I knew how easy it was to change my IP address.

[Kushie]

Interesting response. Nonsensical to say the least. Doesn't help my hunger. Moving on.

I can't help with your hunger for dick and pixels. I can however help you reflect on your dull life and your anonymous forum presence for one whole week. Keep hiding in your hole if you're scared, rodent.


http://sibleynaturecenter.org/daytrips/naturetrail0708/12.jpg

[ClownGuild]

I can't help with your hunger for dick and pixels. I can however help you reflect on your dull life and your anonymous forum presence for one whole week. Keep hiding in your hole if you're scared, rodent.


http://sibleynaturecenter.org/daytrips/naturetrail0708/12.jpg

You were so close to being entertaining. Try again.

[kurtis]

Yeah. I wish I knew how easy it was to change my IP address.

Because looking at past IP logins is soooo difficult. I fully expect your alt army to show up just to spit in the face of the suspension.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I'm genuinely curious who clownguild is though. All of these anonymous accounts on all sections, really.

[Kushie]

You were so close to being entertaining. Try again.

I'd hide in that hole of yours too, it looks like you spent a lot of time digging yourself in.

Stop looking at the monitor for just 10 seconds and look around you. That's your life, rodent.

[Troubled]

Not you, triple combo btw.

[ClownGuild]

Not you, triple combo btw.

Haha.

[Absolution]

ClownGuild is close to punch his computer and cry on his bed ! you look so mad and it's fun to see you try to hide it ahah :)

[Ravager]

Instead of training mobs and pulling to the zone in (which I remember TMO arguing as raid interference when BDA pulled Inny to the zone in, claiming they were preventing any other guild from zoning in) why don't guilds instead kill the raid mobs that they want moved out of the way and then progress through the zone?

[ClownGuild]

I'm gonna slow play Kushie a minute. Ignore a few of his post. Get him obsessed.

[ClownGuild]

ClownGuild is close to punch his computer and cry on his bed ! you look so mad and it's fun to see you try to hide it ahah :)

If you say so champ. Anyway if I get that angry I got a spare PC for all my nerd rage.

[Kushie]

I'm gonna slow play Kushie a minute. Ignore a few of his post. Get him obsessed.

You keep trying so hard to dismiss me because you can't defend yourself. Dig that hole deeper.

[Detoxx]

You only got 1 of those 2 the 2nd day because we were busy killing Nexona.

"We had a lead"

Funny guy. You do realize with MMOs if you see someone in a spot they may actually not be in that exact spot right ? When a group of people are racing for mobs for instance. It may seem someone is ahead or behind on your screen but it may not be reality.It's all very technical and now I'm hungry.

Try explaining that on Hoku for the 2 Nexonas i beat him on

[Detoxx]

100% IB fte! Lol

[ClownGuild]

100% IB fte! Lol

Mhm

"But...I was in the lead"

Funny people actually think he understands the game. Amazing what living close to the server having a fast connection while hot swapping characters with IP exemptions will make people believe.

[Detoxx]

Dont forget GM timers

[ClownGuild]

Dont forget GM timers

How could I forget that ?

[Pint]

You guys all relax, asgard is totally ready to clean up VP this weekend, nobody needs to worry about ib getting more pixels than usual.

[ClownGuild]

Because looking at past IP logins is soooo difficult. I fully expect your alt army to show up just to spit in the face of the suspension.

Don't worry I'll talk Asgard into throwing you the typical SW and Xygoz bone we have been.

[wycca]

Consistency in rule violations is certainly a problem. Really need to approach it like judiciary rulings than off-the-cuff changes-week-to-week. Really frustrating.

AT breaks bag limit = 2 week raid suspension
TMO violates by 27sec = 1 week raid suspension
IB breaks bag limit = no punishment

Anyone else troubled by the new Gore ruling? Anytime you accidentally get FTE on a mob (even if its immediately dropped) you get a punishment. Certainly going to make moving through Dreadlands more interesting when Gore is up.

Precedents are set and changed from week to week. That's the main problem.

[Pint]

Anyone else troubled by the new Gore ruling? Anytime you accidentally get FTE on a mob (even if its immediately dropped) you get a punishment. Certainly going to make moving through Dreadlands more interesting when Gore is up.

We (asgard) actually had a 60 sk log into the lair on naggy spawn thinking he was going to get to watch the fight and end up with the fte and lair boot, thats kind of the same thing. I'm not sure tmo or ib bothered petitioning it but we certainly want to earn our class C stripes with our first raid suspension so feel free to submit a case.

[kurtis]

Don't worry I'll talk Asgard into throwing you the typical SW and Xygoz bone we have been.

You're so cute. Props to Talsabis, Nalken, and that other ranger for doing work lately. Not sure what y'all's other 22 pad sockers are doing on their run up.

[Cecily]

Accidental FTEs shouldn't be considered a violation if they don't result in a pull attempt. Like that Gore we forfeited. And that rogue wasn't a tracker or a puller. Dumb. It's just dumb.

[Juevento]

I thought we agreed not to park trackers on mob spawns anymore regardless of faction.

[cs616]

Instead of training mobs and pulling to the zone in (which I remember TMO arguing as raid interference when BDA pulled Inny to the zone in, claiming they were preventing any other guild from zoning in) why don't guilds instead kill the raid mobs that they want moved out of the way and then progress through the zone?

Because that would be considered a rule infraction and result in the guild who did it being suspended. I seriously don't know how many times/ways I need to explain this.

[ClownGuild]

You're so cute. Props to Talsabis, Nalken, and that other ranger for doing work lately. Not sure what y'all's other 22 pad sockers are doing on their run up.

You're also forgetting Detoxx getting 2 Nexona's, A PD, 2 Xygozs.

You are forgetting Gunterr and his multiple FTEs

Nixxar

Barlow

The list goes on.

In TMO we don't depend on one or 2 people while the rest sit with thumbs up their butt. We have skilled players across the board. It kinda shows with your guild too. One player disappears and your productivity drops 75%.

[Juevento]

Because that would be considered a rule infraction and result in the guild who did it being suspended. I seriously don't know how many times/ways I need to explain this.

So it's a rule that you can't kill mobs on their spawn point???

[Raev]

this is just a conspiracy to prevent asgard from getting Class C mobs on rumbles

[cs616]

So it's a rule that you can't kill mobs on their spawn point???

Yes, last time I raided (months ago) killing a mob in VP at its spawn point would result in a raid suspension. I'm pretty sure that is still the rule.

[Gimp]

Only fair recourse is to change VP to chanter FTEs only, obviously.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Only fair recourse is to change VP to chanter FTEs only, obviously.

no sow with 100 encumbered, too. crawl to the finish.

[Nuktari]

You guys all relax, asgard is totally ready to clean up VP this weekend, nobody needs to worry about ib getting more pixels than usual.

Time to get me a Crown of Rile!

[Kushie]

In TMO we don't depend on one or 2 people while the rest sit with thumbs up their butt. We have skilled players across the board. It kinda shows with your guild too. One player disappears and your productivity drops 75%.

You mean you have rodent neckbeards digging themselves into their computer chairs across the board. You're skilled at forumquesting and lawyerquesting for sure though.

<insert tiggles nasally squeel>

[Herp]

In TMO we don't depend on one or 2 people while the rest sit with thumbs up their butt. We have skilled players across the board. It kinda shows with your guild too. One player disappears and your productivity drops 75%.

Is that how IB has literally twice as many FFA/C kills (not including maestro) 8 of the last 9 months again? Do I need to PM Phats to show you spreadsheets again? Yeah, you don't depend on 2 people, you depend on 1 ranger.

[Ravager]

Accidental FTEs shouldn't be considered a violation if they don't result in a pull attempt. Like that Gore we forfeited. And that rogue wasn't a tracker or a puller. Dumb. It's just dumb.

The thing is, how is a GM supposed to know the difference?

[Ravager]

Yes, last time I raided (months ago) killing a mob in VP at its spawn point would result in a raid suspension. I'm pretty sure that is still the rule.

Double RnF post, cuz I'm mad, bad, sad and fat, but what? I don't think Sirken's that dumb that he won't let a guild kill a mob on it's spawn point.

[Ravager]

Double RnF post, cuz I'm mad, bad, sad and fat, but what? I don't think Sirken's that dumb that he won't let a guild kill a mob on it's spawn point.

Triple post, cuz I'm drunk and used the wrong *its.

[Prismaticshop]

OP is butthurt as fuck that the top guild being suspended doesnt give his more mobs lol :D

[Oleris]

shit happens. forgive and forget.

[Llodd]

[QUOTE=Llodd;1797947]

You also quoted incorrectly Sheeple. I see why IB keeps you all anon in RNF.

Nope And nope. Left another grammatical error for you in there for you to distract you from your mad. Yw

[Llodd]

Double RnF post, cuz I'm mad, bad, sad and fat, but what? I don't think Sirken's that dumb that he won't let a guild kill a mob on it's spawn point.

Even if what he says is true (highly doubtful verging on impossible) you could just train the ent mobs away slightly in and then fight your way through the zone.

However; we know why this will never happen and it's got nothing to do with anything that's reasonable in any way.

[VANVEM]

Accidental FTEs shouldn't be considered a violation if they don't result in a pull attempt. Like that Gore we forfeited. And that rogue wasn't a tracker or a puller. Dumb. It's just dumb.

Wrong! there are no accidents, you played badly for whatever reason, and your mistake probably interferred with someone else's FTE attempt, so YES it should be punishable

[VANVEM]

And the award for dumbest post goes to...

The current rules *REQUIRE* guilds to train to the zone in since it is considered a raid infraction to relocate your raid to another portion of the zone (unless that has changed since I last raided, but I don't think it has). Last time IB set up in the pad room they recieved a suspension.

This has nothing to do with the guilds/players strategies or play styles since those strategies and play styles have been dictated to them through the rules. Your post is like getting mad at the car infront of you for going too slow because the posted speed limit is 25mph.

Fine whatever, then pull each mob one at a time to your raid force and stop leap frogging to cherry pick mobs, whatever it takes for you to realize you dont make the zone/game/gm's bend to your play style, you adapt and kill mobs the way it's intended.

I know this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, BUT TMO doesn't make the rules

[Clark]

Really reaching with those infractions lol. I guess we need to take to break to keep your guild from crumbling. So be it

[Cecily]

Wrong! there are no accidents, you played badly for whatever reason, and your mistake probably interferred with someone else's FTE attempt, so YES it should be punishable

You obviously don't play the same game I do, so refrain from speaking at me you miserable peon.

[quido]

GMs used to admit to making decisions to level the playing field. They likely won't admit it anymore, but good luck convincing me otherwise.

[ClownGuild]

This dude needs to chill. Smoke some weed or something, buy a prostitute. He reminds me of Lazie, possibly Alarti, ultimate dick riders and live for breaking down the facts of why their guild is so awesome but making 0 sense and contradicting themselves along the way. Not even understanding, their own guild is like "shut the fuck up."

Someone needs to muzzle that fucker and quick. Cecily go put your cock in his mouth, hurry.

You seem to care an awful awful lot.

[cs616]

Fine whatever, then pull each mob one at a time to your raid force and stop leap frogging to cherry pick mobs, whatever it takes for you to realize you dont make the zone/game/gm's bend to your play style, you adapt and kill mobs the way it's intended.

I know this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, BUT TMO doesn't make the rules

Oh neat, another person who doesnt raid in VP and is completely unaware of the zone mechanics wants to chime in. The respawn rate on VP trash is 2 minutes. Even if every person on the server with a VP key got together and tried to clear a pull path to PD, they'd get respawns before getting even 1/2 way there.

I know this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, but the current method of training away trash to clear a pull path is the only way to pull mobs within the current rule set. There is a reason many people from both IB and TMO keep asking for no CSR VP again, because the current GM enforced rule set is ridiculously restrictive and results in everyone playing petition quest all day. This is honestly one of the rare scenarios where the big mean raid guilds aren't the source of the problem.

[MaksimMazor]

Fine whatever, then pull each mob one at a time to your raid force and stop leap frogging to cherry pick mobs, whatever it takes for you to realize you dont make the zone/game/gm's bend to your play style, you adapt and kill mobs the way it's intended.

I know this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, BUT TMO doesn't make the rules

Welcome to the server!

[Absolution]

Is that how IB has literally twice as many FFA/C kills (not including maestro) 8 of the last 9 months again? Do I need to PM Phats to show you spreadsheets again? Yeah, you don't depend on 2 people, you depend on 1 ranger.

Finally someone who has a clear mind !

[Llodd]

Oh neat, another person who doesnt raid in VP and is completely unaware of the zone mechanics wants to chime in. The respawn rate on VP trash is 2 minutes. Even if every person on the server with a VP key got together and tried to clear a pull path to PD, they'd get respawns before getting even 1/2 way there.


'Pull path'. I don't think you are understanding what ppl are saying yourself.

[cs616]

'Pull path'. I don't think you are understanding what ppl are saying yourself.

Did you miss the part about raid rules requiring guilds to engage mobs at the zone in? How do you propose we pull mobs to the zone in without training given that the zone has a 2 minute respawn?

[ClownGuild]

Finally someone who has a clear mind !

Hey Deathproof learn how to strafe run yet ? Or too busy dying in VP to matter still ? I like how rustled IB is. Feels good. You guys get dominated for the best loot in the game and you try to throw out kills on sev and gore like they matter.

6 of 10 on Hosh
6 of 10 on Druushk
8 of 10 on PD
4 of 6 on CT


I mean the only thing you guys are winning lately that matters is VS. Grats on VS.

[Anichek]

I know this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, but the current method of training away trash to clear a pull path is the only way to pull mobs within the current rule set.

Not shit talking, real question here - why not train away and then bring your raid TO the mob spawn? Manage your train/kite, but the target mob is engaged @ spawn instead?

I know room/maneuverability is limited, but is that the primary concern? Recognizing that you can't mow a path of death en route to the mobs, what would be a legit method to getting the engages without interrupting the rest of the zone/competition racing for other spawns?

[Ele]

Not shit talking, real question here - why not train away and then bring your raid TO the mob spawn? Manage your train/kite, but the target mob is engaged @ spawn instead?

I know room/maneuverability is limited, but is that the primary concern? Recognizing that you can't mow a path of death en route to the mobs, what would be a legit method to getting the engages without interrupting the rest of the zone/competition racing for other spawns?

That works with a single raid force in the zone.

If you have two 'competing' raid forces, then one isn't going to want to train/clear the way just for the other one to get FTE in the current FTE wins system. You have to get the FTE first, then you do train away as the pull comes in.

Imaging two groups of 30-60 people all trying to run up the same path into a room with one entrance to achieve FTE and kill the dragon. Someone's invis will fail, silverwing/hosh/wurms will be aggroed, AEs will be set off, a trail of bodies from the zone in to PD will happen. At the same time both groups are trying to run up to PD, the train away people have to get there first somehow and pull the stuff out ahead of time before the raid force arrives otherwise you get left with a half dozen wurms and 3-5 drakes killing everyone trying to get FTE.


This is simply describing the current environment and not discounting that other systems couldn't be enacted/enforced to correct/alleviate the myriad issues.

[Juevento]

I think moving to the mobs works for Xygoz since there is an open camp location nearby. Hoshkar and silver wing are easy to pull to zone in.

But the guys near the pillow room (PD, nexona, druushk) it's far easier to drag the dragons either to the pillow room or to the zone in if you can clear the path.

Remember how much of a cluster it was when we moved to pillow room? With people waiting for racnars to get trained away to move past them and hoping invis didn't break. Now imagine that situation in a race setting. That might be asking for more rules violations that just training mobs and pulling dragons.

[VANVEM]

You obviously don't play the same game I do, so refrain from speaking at me you miserable peon.

Ooohh Ruffled much?
You right, I don't generally play forumquest, and your usual TMO spin doesn't seem to be helping, I think you missed the point in my next post, TMO DOESN'T MAKE THE RULES!!!, they get to play by them, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!!!!

GO FUCK YOURSELF! and have a Great day!

[Cecily]

You're obviously new here. Not only TMO makes the rules, we tell the GMs which rules we'll allow them to enforce at any given time. Learn your server history.

[Ella`Ella]

I think moving to the mobs works for Xygoz since there is an open camp location nearby. Hoshkar and silver wing are easy to pull to zone in.

But the guys near the pillow room (PD, nexona, druushk) it's far easier to drag the dragons either to the pillow room or to the zone in if you can clear the path.

Remember how much of a cluster it was when we moved to pillow room? With people waiting for racnars to get trained away to move past them and hoping invis didn't break. Now imagine that situation in a race setting. That might be asking for more rules violations that just training mobs and pulling dragons.

So... Your raiders don't carry invis rings?

[Ella`Ella]

Also,

TMO DOESN'T MAKE THE RULES!!!



Lulz

[Fysts]

Im just curious, but what does VP have to do with anyone on this server that is not class C? I see such hate directed toward TMO even though, I know many of the players in TMO have helped alot on this server. Such hate toward a guild, that is not even comprised of the same players, the server came to hate in the past. Everyone hating on the guild that donated the most items toward the charity event, the guild that posts cazic skin turn ins, yes they get suspended once in awhile, but that is what happens when you race in class c ruleset. EVERY class C guild has been suspended at some point, and even the pure white knight Chest (Who pushed so hard for sharing mobs and rotation, and now feels hes entitled to more) has had suspensions. It is just sickening the way you all seem to have innate hatred toward tmo, when most cannot even make a valid argument for hating them. IB, Taken, Even BDA has more banned players, yet TMO is the bad guys and cheaters, laughable.

[Llodd]

Did you miss the part about raid rules requiring guilds to engage mobs at the zone in? How do you propose we pull mobs to the zone in without training given that the zone has a 2 minute respawn?

I guess I did. Could you point me in the direction of where it states that all mbos in VP must be pulled to ZI.

Cheers.

[Juevento]

So... Your raiders don't carry invis rings?

Might wanna talk to your own folks before you go throwing rocks, dumb fuck.

Someone's invis will fail, silverwing/hosh/wurms will be aggroed

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I guess I did. Could you point me in the direction of where it states that all mbos in VP must be pulled to ZI.

Cheers.

Why wouldn't you though? It's an open spot, gives the most time to prepare while giving yellow text as early as possible. Why don't we fight gore / sev / fay on spawn? Same reason, minus the insane trash.

[Ella`Ella]

Might wanna talk to your own folks before you go throwing rocks, dumb fuck.

He doesn't say TMO raider's invis will fail. L2 deduction.

[Juevento]

He doesn't say TMO raider's invis will fail. L2 deduction.

Look, I have interacted with some of the mouth breather warm body TMO people. I promise you they don't have invis rings, charged caps, etc.

All I was saying is that stuff happens and movingly large force from VP zone in to a dragon kill spot is asking for something to go wrong.

[Ella`Ella]

Look, I have interacted with some of the mouth breather warm body TMO people. I promise you they don't have invis rings, charged caps, etc.



Who? Who are these scum so I can relegate them to BDA?

[Tiggles]

Who? Who are these scum so I can relegate them to BDA?

They always talk about these mysterious TMO members but will never mention them by name.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

They always talk about these mysterious TMO members but will never mention them by name.

I am the danger.

[ClownGuild]

Look, I have interacted with some of the mouth breather warm body TMO people. I promise you they don't have invis rings, charged caps, etc.

All I was saying is that stuff happens and movingly large force from VP zone in to a dragon kill spot is asking for something to go wrong.

Hush up mouth breather.

[Juevento]

They always talk about these mysterious TMO members but will never mention them by name.

Hey stupid cunt, stop dodging me and get me on your stream.

[Tiggles]

Hey stupid cunt, stop dodging me and get me on your stream.

Not streaming till velious but if you want to co host a sirken stream sometime let him know.

[cs616]

I guess I did. Could you point me in the direction of where it states that all mbos in VP must be pulled to ZI.

Cheers.

Look at this guy thinking the raid rules are actually published some where and consistently enforced. There is a reason people talk about "rule lawyering" and it's because on this forum you can probably find 8 different sets of rules that all contradict each other and need a guild lawyer just to keep up to date with GM interpretation. I think the actual rule is that raids can only have a certain number of people beyond the zone in, which results in trackers sitting at doors sniping FTE instantly. So while I suppose a raid could move beyond the zone line for engage, by that point the pull is already incoming and half your raid isn't even logged in yet.

In the current VP environment, the only way to engage at a place other than zone in is to camp somewhere other than zone in, which again, results in a suspension.

My point here isn't to argue over rules though, it is to point out that TMO and IB have simply adapted their strategies to most efficiently conform with the rules. Occasionally it does result in a suspension because the rules are very easy to break unintentionally, which leaves punishment up to the whim of whatever GM handles it. Pretending like a suspension is a big deal is dumb in VP due to the nature of the zone. It should be no CSR, and the only people Ive seen vocally disagree with that so far have been people who don't raid in VP and don't know anything about the zone.

[Galelor]

And the award for dumbest post goes to...

The current rules *REQUIRE* guilds to train to the zone in since it is considered a raid infraction to relocate your raid to another portion of the zone (unless that has changed since I last raided, but I don't think it has). Last time IB set up in the pad room they recieved a suspension.

This has nothing to do with the guilds/players strategies or play styles since those strategies and play styles have been dictated to them through the rules. Your post is like getting mad at the car infront of you for going too slow because the posted speed limit is 25mph.

I actually raided this on live, and we actually killed our way in like the basement dwellers we were. We did the same in Hate/Fear/Etc. Rules on this 'retro' server are in place because homos like you train shit all over the place instead of actually doing the content. To make it a car analogy: You are in such a hurry while driving that you blow through a red light while texting, and then you tell the cops the car that T-boned you was at fault because they are black.

[cs616]

I actually raided this on live, and we actually killed our way in like the basement dwellers we were. We did the same in Hate/Fear/Etc. Rules on this 'retro' server are in place because homos like you train shit all over the place instead of actually doing the content. To make it a car analogy: You are in such a hurry while driving that you blow through a red light while texting, and then you tell the cops the car that T-boned you was at fault because they are black.

Great, and if you tried that on this server you'd never get a mob. I really don't think you know what you're talking about. What you did on your server has nothing to do with how the raid environment has evolved here over the past 4 years. To keep in the spirit of car analogies, your like that girl whose broken down on the side of the road with her hood open like she is going to fix it despite not knowing the difference between a fuel pump and an alternator.

[Llodd]

Why wouldn't you though? It's an open spot, gives the most time to prepare while giving yellow text as early as possible. Why don't we fight gore / sev / fay on spawn? Same reason, minus the insane trash.

All of which roam and are in an open zone with little or no raid trash to contend with. Not particulary relevant.

I get that it's the best spot and other set up camps are a no go. The thought processes in train and zerg will never be defeated because it's the quickest way to get fte/kill yep. I suspect if proper racing was implemented the spread of mobs/loot would end up being similar. And you know, might actually be more fun ..

Does leapfrogging (classic) even happen anymore ? meh.. maybe my recollection of that happening is duff but I don't thihnk so.

[Llodd]

Look at this guy thinking the raid rules are actually published some where and consistently enforced. There is a reason people talk about "rule lawyering" and it's because on this forum you can probably find 8 different sets of rules that all contradict each other and need a guild lawyer just to keep up to date with GM interpretation. I think the actual rule is that raids can only have a certain number of people beyond the zone in, which results in trackers sitting at doors sniping FTE instantly. So while I suppose a raid could move beyond the zone line for engage, by that point the pull is already incoming and half your raid isn't even logged in yet.

In the current VP environment, the only way to engage at a place other than zone in is to camp somewhere other than zone in, which again, results in a suspension.

My point here isn't to argue over rules though, it is to point out that TMO and IB have simply adapted their strategies to most efficiently conform with the rules. Occasionally it does result in a suspension because the rules are very easy to break unintentionally, which leaves punishment up to the whim of whatever GM handles it. Pretending like a suspension is a big deal is dumb in VP due to the nature of the zone. It should be no CSR, and the only people Ive seen vocally disagree with that so far have been people who don't raid in VP and don't know anything about the zone.

You make an assertion ( 1 cast iron rule ) like that which is impossible to rule lawyer and you dont have a source?

[Ele]

GO OUTSIDE

Says the guy camping zone lines.

[ClownGuild]

damn straight, if you dont go outside im going to MAKE you go outside

Confirmed Non Factor.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

damn straight, if you dont go outside im going to MAKE you go outside

1600 posts in under a year. yikes.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

All of which roam and are in an open zone with little or no raid trash to contend with. Not particulary relevant.

I get that it's the best spot and other set up camps are a no go. The thought processes in train and zerg will never be defeated because it's the quickest way to get fte/kill yep. I suspect if proper racing was implemented the spread of mobs/loot would end up being similar. And you know, might actually be more fun ..

Does leapfrogging (classic) even happen anymore ? meh.. maybe my recollection of that happening is duff but I don't thihnk so.

It's absolutely relevant for the reasons listed. VP trash is also fucking awful with splitting / fearing trash (thanks new resist system).

Perhaps if they perma rooted all of the raid mobs it'd be a bit more interesting :3

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

yeah you are really making em look bad bro! gj!

[Galelor]

Great, and if you tried that on this server you'd never get a mob. I really don't think you know what you're talking about. What you did on your server has nothing to do with how the raid environment has evolved here over the past 4 years.

To quote my brilliant self:
Rules on this 'retro' server are in place because homos like you train shit all over the place instead of actually doing the content.

[Llodd]

It's absolutely relevant for the reasons listed. VP trash is also fucking awful with splitting / fearing trash (thanks new resist system).

Perhaps if they perma rooted all of the raid mobs it'd be a bit more interesting :3

the reasons listed are relevant; the examples not.

This is the thing though isnt it. Unless the staff dictate how everything is done with rules neither of the top guilds in class C have any interest in making the server a more fun place to be. It really is just about pixel lust and the fastest way of obtaining them ad infinitum (nothing new there).

You could make an agreement amongst yourselves as to how to go about raiding.

[Obligatory 'lol' here at the thought of you lot cooperating for server welfare]

[HeallunRumblebelly]

the reasons listed are relevant; the examples not.

This is the thing though isnt it. Unless the staff dictate how everything is done with rules neither of the top guilds in class C have any interest in making the server a more fun place to be. It really is just about pixel lust and the fastest way of obtaining them ad infinitum (nothing new there).

You could make an agreement amongst yourselves as to how to go about raiding.

[Obligatory 'lol' here at the thought of you lot cooperating for server welfare]

We have made VP agreements. Several. Pulling PD by moving hosh / sw on a repop is how it has been done on every single rumble repop. If it's an offense both guilds got like 6 months deep of bans inc from a rule that was never stated.

There's been several kites recently, and even those are only in the sense of not a perfectly direct path (PD heading up towards balcony rather than down, buying the extra up/down time -- also possible on all other dragons except hosh. Hosh is pretty obvious if it's a kite -- he should never be heading into VP.)

Have to ask...do you uh, zone into VP regularly?

[Fountree]

.

[ClownGuild]

Danny and Gimp going full retard to sunshine pump their failing guild in their Guild thread. BTW the numbers are not made up Gimp. Why do you think Danny didn't mention any of the mobs I did in that update ?

[Ella`Ella]

http://puu.sh/gdNdb/15cbdd4ee1.jpg

Get to level 56, pussy.

[ClownGuild]

BTW the Druushk tracker FTE was removed from our suspension thread as predicted. Stay tuned for more updates.

[uygi]

IMO Bring back the Ambrotos rule of kill-it-where-it-lay.

[Herp]

Danny and Gimp going full retard to sunshine pump their failing guild in their Guild thread. BTW the numbers are not made up Gimp. Why do you think Danny didn't mention any of the mobs I did in that update ?

Half the mobs you mentioned you arent even getting majority of kills on by your own admission and your own false numbers. Literally all your kills are inaccurate. Stop using Lazie formula. I'm not going to sit here and critique every single one of your made up numbers, but I'll bite and take one:

The Mighty Hoshkar has fallen to TMO 25 times in the past year. The competition did well in direct competition on this mob. As you can see though their claims of us killing 13 out of 60 is greatly exaggerated. As is most of their lies to pump up their members!

Greatly exaggerated? Okay, I am awaiting TMO screenshot of raid sheet for Hoshkar thats showing this to be greatly exaggerated. Oh, wait a minute, I have it. Literally half your Hoshkars are due to suspensions/forfeits btw.
http://i.imgur.com/l2pQEHb.png

I can sit here and do this for every mob on P99, but I got other shit to do. Keep forumquesting, no namer. Good luck on getting more FFA targets than Taken in March.

[ClownGuild]

Half the mobs you mentioned you arent even getting majority of kills on by your own admission and your own false numbers. Literally all your kills are inaccurate. Stop using Lazie formula. I'm not going to sit here and critique every single one of your made up numbers, but I'll bite and take one:


Greatly exaggerated? Okay, I am awaiting TMO screenshot of raid sheet for Hoshkar thats showing this to be greatly exaggerated. Oh, wait a minute, I have it. Literally half your Hoshkars are due to suspensions/forfeits btw.
http://i.imgur.com/l2pQEHb.png

I can sit here and do this for every mob on P99, but I got other shit to do. Keep forumquesting, no namer. Good luck on getting more FFA targets than Taken in March.

It's your numbers that are false. I listed our kills for the year not counted Draco and Maestro. 401. Sorry that you guys fall short of that.

[ClownGuild]

BTW I didn't say you guys didn't kill more Hoshkar's for the year. Just that your numbers were off on what was killed on contested spawns. I get that you guys count suspensions for your streaks. We don't.

[ClownGuild]

BTW Herp he posted you guys contested 50 VS's. Only 46 Class C and FFA VS's spawned for the year. A lot you guys got on repops while we were killing PD which we didn't contest. You guys as a whole have done really well on VS and Hoshkar. Trakanon is equal pretty much on spawns we could contest.

You gotta remember we were Suspended and sat out a few for issues we had. We did kill 34 of the 66 we contested. I am sure you guys got a few more on repops and the ones we had to sit out and probably killed more for the year. No one is saying you didn't.

[Herp]

It's your numbers that are false. I listed our kills for the year not counted Draco and Maestro. 401. Sorry that you guys fall short of that.
Oh, the numbers are false in the RAID SHEET now? So I guess those 1-4 items assigned each kill were summoned by a GM then? I called your bluff, post your raid sheets. Whats the matter? List numbers all you want, if they are entirely made up then who gives a fuck. Back up what you say for once in your adult life. Until you do that, you are just full of shit. Be sure to go back far enough to where shit was virtually uncontested while IB was just returning/rebuilding, because nobody here can surely see past that bullshit. FACT IS TMO has gotten half the kills as IB in the last 9 or so months. If you got screenshots to show otherwise, then post them like I just did. If you don't, sit the fuck down and go back to recruiting EC mules.

[ClownGuild]

Oh, the numbers are false in the RAID SHEET now? So I guess those 1-4 items assigned each kill were summoned by a GM then? I called your bluff, post your raid sheets. Whats the matter? List numbers all you want, if they are entirely made up then who gives a fuck. Back up what you say for once in your adult life. Until you do that, you are just full of shit. Be sure to go back far enough to where shit was virtually uncontested while IB was just returning/rebuilding, because nobody here can surely see past that bullshit. FACT IS TMO has gotten half the kills as IB in the last 9 or so months. If you got screenshots to show otherwise, then post them like I just did. If you don't, sit the fuck down and go back to recruiting EC mules.

Your raid sheet only goes back to July. As I said you guys did well on Hoshkar for awhile there. No one said otherwise I even gave you credit for it in our guild update. the claim was 13 of 60 we killed which was false. DO a yearly update for your guild like I did. Our logs are different from yours because both of us had different scenarios.

You guys went after more Dracos than us. You guys were suspended or sat out less Trakanons etc. We killed 215 VP mobs and 401 total mobs since our merge. Feel free to post your guilds numbers since that time. =)

[ClownGuild]

Well we probably killed more if I counted Draco like you guys do. For this experiment feel free to count him so you guys can catch up!

[kurtis]

BTW Herp he posted you guys contested 50 VS's. Only 46 Class C and FFA VS's spawned for the year. A lot you guys got on repops while we were killing PD which we didn't contest. You guys as a whole have done really well on VS and Hoshkar. Trakanon is equal pretty much on spawns we could contest.

You gotta remember we were Suspended and sat out a few for issues we had. We did kill 34 of the 66 we contested. I am sure you guys got a few more on repops and the ones we had to sit out and probably killed more for the year. No one is saying you didn't.

Lazie, you're delusional.