Variance

[RIP The Jacka]

I thought variance meant pvp?

Azrael wiped with 30 trying to rush a mob before pvp then hides on alts?

Discuss.

[MavstabYoudead]

wiped with 60.

[RIP The Jacka]

U wiped w 60? Should have just pvpd, no? At least you could have called lns after...

[MavstabYoudead]

wiped with 60+ 3 times on gore. i'm quitting it was pathetic.

[lite]

yearly server shut down and variance ... same thing

[Glenzig]

yearly server shut down and variance ... same thing

No. Not even close to the same thing.

[gnotshr]

Sarcasm: : the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny

[Nirgon]

You do realize even some of the most hard core beards on blue are leaving it because of variance

It is horrible

[lite]

You do realize even some of the most hard core beards on blue are leaving it because of variance

It is horrible

blue and red. same thing

[Swyft]

blue and red. same thing

Well in Nirgons defense he plays both servers the same exact way.

[Cymeon]

fuck that sig and my misaligned windows. calling a forum mod to remove that illegal sig

[Nirgon]

I'd like to think I could give Lite or any of the other pro-variance pals access to a blue char and have him added to a batphone for a week to see how much they like that shit :P

But it'd get stripped/deleted

You got it pretty good here Lite for what you're trying to do

Imagine if for every raid mob, Holo was fully buffed and camped out ready to instantly engage and there were never stragglers picked off

That's what variance turns into. It is horrible and not classic.

As far as what variance actually fixed? Lol, nothing.

There's still tons of rules being put on top of it and an entire forum section where only certain people can post and no one agrees with each other.

[lite]

not gonna debate this with someone who has no understanding of red dynamic, sorry.

I am not advocating for variance. I will always support it as I think it's what's best for a red server.

Right now I just hope the staff can finally set up Earth quakes that don't require Rogean's presence( stupidest thing ever). This would best emulate the Live servers that reset weekly.

[Swyft]

I'd like to think I could give Lite or any of the other pro-variance pals access to a blue char and have him added to a batphone for a week to see how much they like that shit :P

But it'd get stripped/deleted

You got it pretty good here Lite for what you're trying to do

Imagine if for every raid mob, Holo was fully buffed and camped out ready to instantly engage and there were never stragglers picked off

That's what variance turns into. It is horrible and not classic.

As far as what variance actually fixed? Lol, nothing.

There's still tons of rules being put on top of it and an entire forum section where only certain people can post and no one agrees with each other.

So how does static timers help anyone but the zerg? If everyone knows the timers than the guild with the highest numbers will always win.

To any male this would just make sense because it's logical and reasonable, but when I talk to you I'm forced to pretend you are a chick.

[Nirgon]

Well in Nirgons defense he plays both servers the same exact way.

Thanks for sharing

[Nirgon]

not gonna debate this with someone who has no understanding of red dynamic, sorry.



Maybe it is you who haven't figured anything out

I got prof




BK go sit in the corner and play with your dirt

[GradnerLives]

I'm starting to see some serious benefits to implementing variance on this server.

1.) Lite & co. can stop making threads about it.
2.) Superior holo numbers and lower tracking requirements allowing us to get 99% of targets rather than the current meager 95%.

GM's please implement variance immediately.
Engage tracking dkp, lvl 1 rangers, camped out fully buffed raids, end of pvp on pvp server.
Sounds good, guys! Well thought out proposal! 8.7/10!

[Kergan]

I now support variance.

[Nirgon]

People arguing against me here have a grand combined total of 0 seconds of variance EQ raiding under their belt

[GradnerLives]

So how does static timers help anyone but the zerg? If everyone knows the timers than the guild with the highest numbers will always win.

To any male this would just make sense because it's logical and reasonable, but when I talk to you I'm forced to pretend you are a chick.

How do variant timers help anyone but the zerg?

We have the man-power to track mobs round-the-clock. For any bosses we're interested in, a few lvl 1 rangers will ensure that we're able to mobilize immediately on spawn and then we're back to a simple batphone numbers game (which the largest guild will inevitably win most times). For holo, variance is a minor inconvenience. For any other guild, it's a major barrier for entry.

Granted, static timers are easy with a zerg. Variance also easier with a zerg. Simulated repops easier with a zerg. Are you starting to understand the underlying trend?

GM's please implement variance immediately.

[Amplitude]

17,245 posts on a emulated elf forum

[Swyft]

How do variant timers help anyone but the zerg?

We have the man-power to track mobs round-the-clock. For any bosses we're interested in, a few lvl 1 rangers will ensure that we're able to mobilize immediately on spawn and then we're back to a simple batphone numbers game (which the largest guild will inevitably win most times). For holo, variance is a minor inconvenience. For any other guild, it's a major barrier for entry.

Granted, static timers are easy with a zerg. Variance also easier with a zerg. Simulated repops easier with a zerg. Are you starting to understand the underlying trend?

GM's please implement variance immediately.

With random timers there is a chance smaller guild will mobilize and get the mob before the zerg does. With static timers there is zero chance.

I'll take a slim chance over zero chance anyday, but that's logic and reason something woman are often incapable of doing during a debate.

[Gitem]

to act like azrael doesn't have access to holocaust's bat phone is funny.

[Swyft]

I like how we all suddenly pretend Holo has the balls to run around with small groups tracking mobs lmfao because I've never seen it, every pvp encounter you are willing to fight is with zerg force numbers.

You literally would lose a ton of mobs if you had to keep players in zones for tracking purposes as most of those players would die regularly before they knew something popped. Who's gonna fight to track in zones, Quiet? lol you gotta be kidding me.

You can't pull a nirgon and gate everytime you don't have 80 people at your side and know whats up everywhere in the world. But you guys know this and you're just Bullshitting so you can log in one day a week and down every mob.

[Glenzig]

With random timers there is a chance smaller guild will mobilize and get the mob before the zerg does. With static timers there is zero chance.

I'll take a slim chance over zero chance anyday, but that's logic and reason something woman are often incapable of doing during a debate.

That may possibly be true on Blue. But you would have to be engaged extremely quick, and down the target even more quickly. Engaging first is only good in pve. On a pvp server 50 holo would just faceroll you with the mob at 50%. You dont know what you're asking for.

[Amplitude]

put variance in see 100 man guild get shit on for 3 weeks and splinter off to 3-4 smaller guilds thus more pvp and more fun for all

[Steel Warrior]

... recruit... and... contest?

[GradnerLives]

With random timers there is a chance smaller guild will mobilize and get the mob before the zerg does. With static timers there is zero chance.

I'll take a slim chance over zero chance anyday, but that's logic and reason something woman are often incapable of doing during a debate.

Do you know how little effort it takes to wake up to a text at 4am, kill the dragon, go back to sleep and then wake up at 7 for work? Bluebies have done it for years.

Log off fully buffed, login, kill trak, log off, process done in 10 mins.

The infrastructure of Tracking alts and warm bodies to control them is the bottleneck with variance. If you know something spawned, so will holo. The slim chance you manage to logon more is the same slim chance you have currently.

Recruit and Contest. Also, stop being a misogynist.

GMs please implement variance post-haste!

[Baugi]

That may possibly be true on Blue. But you would have to be engaged extremely quick, and down the target even more quickly. Engaging first is only good in pve. On a pvp server 50 holo would just faceroll you with the mob at 50%. You dont know what you're asking for.

IDK, it sounds like Holo likes to just watch.

[Swyft]

That may possibly be true on Blue. But you would have to be engaged extremely quick, and down the target even more quickly. Engaging first is only good in pve. On a pvp server 50 holo would just faceroll you with the mob at 50%. You dont know what you're asking for.

No it's only possible here retard...

1. Blues are only willing to fight over a pixel, reds wish to pvp for the sake of pvp. The chances of small scale reds finding out whether or not mobs spawned is higher than blues too scared to appear without a 80 man zerg.

2. Even Holocaust cannot mobilize there zerg at a moments notice. It takes them almost an hour to prepare for a raid, I know I was holocaust. And when getting to the mob first at a moments notice is what counts guilds quality is emphasized more than sheer numbers. Spies now have a huge impact on Holocaust and they no longer can simply take everyone with a pulse, when one guy can fuck you out of mob.

3. Small scale pvp now matters, the players who are able to control a zone for the longest benefit the most. And to control a zone you need to risk dying in pvp something Holocaust is not willing to do. Zergs roll in take a zone for a brief time and roll out while pvper's often hold the zones longer as they are there for players not pixels.

[Kergan]

People arguing against me here have a grand combined total of 0 seconds of variance EQ raiding under their belt

Good point, I am once again against variance.

[Nirgon]

Gorenaire, Nexona and Hosh are all up and 32k hp Kunark mobs

Enjoy

[lite]

https://i.imgflip.com/hpy6i.jpg

[daasgoot]

i agree that the zerg still has a 100% upper hand if only 1 mob is in window.

when there are multiple mobs in window the zerg has to either choose 1 location to camp their raid force at, or split their force in half to camp at both targets (spit in 3rds for 3 mobs in window etc..)

so, if a smaller guild prioritizes 1 target, it is very feasible to think they could down a mob before the zerg can mobilize to that location if parked at one of the other mobs in window.

[Kergan]

Who is camping a raid force? How about a level 1 instead?

Also, the only reason Azrael wants this is to snipe PD. They don't care about anything else. They are willing to shit up the entire raid scene and forgo contesting anything else for slightly increasing their chances of taking a single target once a week.

Fuckin' blubie scums.

[RIP The Jacka]

yearly server shut down and variance ... same thing

rushing an uncontested mob to wipe and pvping over mob

...ddifferent things.

8)

[Swyft]

Arguing that static timers on steady rotation don't lead to a 1 guild run server is just fucking retarded we've seen it for 3 years with nihilum. We know exactly what static timers leads too, but variance well we never tried variance on red. Which makes the untried choice far more logical than the one we tried and isn't working.

[lite]

Who is camping a raid force? How about a level 1 instead?

Also, the only reason Azrael wants this is to snipe PD. They don't care about anything else. They are willing to shit up the entire raid scene and forgo contesting anything else for slightly increasing their chances of taking a single target once a week.

Fuckin' blubie scums.

https://i.imgflip.com/hpy6i.jpg

0 understanding of red dynamic

[daasgoot]

also agree with alot of what BK lounge is saying.

PVP'rs can control zones making it difficult for the zerg to actually have trackers in all locations with mobs in window.

more strategy can be implemented with superior positioning, killing off groups of players mobilizing to a target etc..

variance would definitely give smaller guilds a better chance and getting raid mobs.

[Kergan]

Variance isn't even what you want. You say it's what you want but it really isn't.

You want simulated repops with all targets up simultaneously.

Personally I would like to see all raid targets spawn once an hour and only drop loot 5% of the time.

[RIP The Jacka]

Variance = less pvp. See azraels rushed attempt at uncontested mob last night.

8)

Bluebie scums. Just fight for it?

[daasgoot]

tracking would be much different on RED than on blue because of PVP.

you can just walk into a zone and FD or sit and spam jav.

your trackers can be killed out of the zone which would mean you need to bring more people to control that zone.

with multiple targets in window at one time even the zerg would have a very hard time holding all zones with their trackers

[Swyft]

https://i.imgflip.com/hpy6i.jpg

0 understanding of red dynamic

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/k%20shame%202_zps1zxcjq8q.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/k%20shame%202_zps1zxcjq8q.png.html)

Pretty much sums up Kergan's pvp knowledge, but like most idiots he chooses to speak at great length about things he doesn't understand

[Kergan]

0 understanding of red dynamic

Sorry I'll take it from the guy who has had his shit pushed in for nearly 3 years straight on red, also never played on any live red server. :)

p.s. also lost a lot of BOTBs

[Kergan]

Pretty much sums up Kergan's pvp knowledge, but like most idiots he chooses to speak at great length about things he doesn't understand

Your forum ban created a void, it just wasn't the same without you.

[GradnerLives]

i agree that the zerg still has a 100% upper hand if only 1 mob is in window.

when there are multiple mobs in window the zerg has to either choose 1 location to camp their raid force at, or split their force in half to camp at both targets (spit in 3rds for 3 mobs in window etc..)

so, if a smaller guild prioritizes 1 target, it is very feasible to think they could down a mob before the zerg can mobilize to that location if parked at one of the other mobs in window.

That's what people thought would happen with TMO.

Just camp mains at high value target, alts at secondary target, porters ready to port mains with no alts to alt location.

It really sounds like more trouble than it is. TMO did it with less numbers than current holo for a long time.

GMs hear our pleas and implement variance

[daasgoot]

variance would force more pvp over and extended period of time for zone control with multiple mobs in window.

[Kergan]

Got prof?

[RIP The Jacka]

P.s, has to box multiple accounts and give people access to geared level 60s as incentive to play with him due to lack of guild appeal 8)

[daasgoot]

That's what people thought would happen with TMO.

Just camp mains at high value target, alts at secondary target, porters ready to port mains with no alts to alt location.

It really sounds like more trouble than it is. TMO did it with less numbers than current holo for a long time.

GMs hear our pleas and implement variance

no pvp on blue.

pvp enabled on red.

very different dynamic. how can you not see this?

[RIP The Jacka]

Sorry I'll take it from the guy who has had his shit pushed in for nearly 3 years straight on red, also never played on any live red server. :)

p.s. also lost a lot of BOTBs

P.s, 8)

[daasgoot]

i played a bard on blue before i played red. so trust me when i say i fucking hated variance. the difference in my mind is the ability to kill the assholes sitting next to me waiting for the mob to spawn.

[RIP The Jacka]

Oh you mean pointless lvl 12 pvp?.

Bluebie alert

[Kergan]

i played a bard on blue before i played red. so trust me when i say i fucking hated variance. the difference in my mind is the ability to kill the assholes sitting next to me waiting for the mob to spawn.

Wow that is gonna be so awesome watching level 1s fight each other all day. Definitely sounds fun and interesting.

[Gitem]

P.s, has to box multiple accounts and give people access to geared level 60s as incentive to play with him due to lack of guild appeal 8)

holocaust tried to do the same shit with tune last week. actually begged him to join them.

[RIP The Jacka]

My naked lvl 12 wiz will bind rush your level 12 naked wiz

#red
#Azrael
#pVp

[daasgoot]

Wow that is gonna be so awesome watching level 1s fight each other all day. Definitely sounds fun and interesting.

bring a lvl 1 toon to track raid mobs uncontested is the bluest thing ive heard all day.

[GradnerLives]

no pvp on blue.

pvp enabled on red.

very different dynamic. how can you not see this?

No pvp on lvl 1 rangers.
No pvp on batphone logins 80 fully buffed vs 26.
No pvp at 3am on Tuesday.
No pvp without recruiting/contesting.

EQ is, has been, and always will be a numbers game - like most MMO's.

Very similar dynamic. How can you not see this?

[daasgoot]

the point is to create more pvp and to give more guilds(fresh, suave, prophets, azrael, any other newer guilds) the chance at contesting a mob.

sitting in zone with lvl 1 tracker to avoid pvp is just gay

[GradnerLives]

Sorry, wanted to clarify from my last post: I am in favor of variance.

GMs please implement variance. Lite started making posts again and I want my guild to get all the mobs, not just most of them.

[RIP The Jacka]

Yah I think using lvl 60 to stare at a spawn point is hella red. Sign me up. +/- 18? Np I'm unemployed.

-aAzrael

[daasgoot]

if their are more than 1 guild in zone looking for the mob when it spawns nobody gonna be just standing and staring at the spawn point, they will be fighting to remove any hostile guilds from the zone

[Formshifter]

maybe you should try the blue rotation if you dont want to have to work for pixels, rip

[daasgoot]

maybe you should try the blue rotation if you dont want to have to work for pixels, rip

you consider rolling 60+ deep with static spawn timers working for pixels? lol

[Barladore]

Enable FFA in all raid mob zones except DL/solb/perma/EJ/TD, that would force guilds to keep zone control... Actually, nm this is year 4 kunark. Do ppl still need gear from this xpac?

[Swyft]

That's what people thought would happen with TMO.

Just camp mains at high value target, alts at secondary target, porters ready to port mains with no alts to alt location.

It really sounds like more trouble than it is. TMO did it with less numbers than current holo for a long time.

GMs hear our pleas and implement variance

Can't compare red to blue, it nonsensical, illogical and just plain retarded. On blue a player a cant kill you out of zone to know what timers are up.

On blue your 60 ranger can park in a zone and check track all day, on red your spawn checking ranger...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

Goes splat!

[RIP The Jacka]

Enable FFA in all raid mob zones except DL/solb/perma/EJ/TD, that would force guilds to keep zone control... Actually, nm this is year 4 kunark. Do ppl still need gear from this xpac?

lets add a queu and a few custom zones too. EQ too boring let's rewrite it!

[Swyft]

lets add a queu and a few custom zones too. EQ too boring let's rewrite it!

Your right it would be so much more hardcore red to just log in one day a week and raid every mob and then hide the other 6 days to avoid a pvp death. We should just take your advice and remove pvp altogether, fucking firegaint.

[Kergan]

bring a lvl 1 toon to track raid mobs uncontested is the bluest thing ive heard all day.

Actually variance is the bluest thing you've heard all day.

[GradnerLives]

you consider rolling 60+ deep with static spawn timers working for pixels? lol

Technically more man hours, so yes, harder work.

Can't compare red to blue, it nonsensical, illogical and just plain retarded. On blue a player a cant kill you out of zone to know what timers are up.

On blue your 60 ranger can park in a zone and check track all day, on red your spawn checking ranger...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

Goes splat!

Why lvl 60? lvl 1 tracks just as goog. Can just roll like 300 of them on 40 accounts.

[daasgoot]

Actually variance is the bluest thing you've heard all day.

i honestly believe variance would promote more pvp than static spawn timers on the red server.

[RIP The Jacka]

Your right it would be so much more hardcore red to just log in one day a week and raid every mob and then hide the other 6 days to avoid a pvp death. We should just take your advice and remove pvp altogether, fucking firegaint.

Pvp all over norrath. What u r problem nerd? Having trouble finding it? 8)

[Kergan]

And I honestly believe that you believe that.

[Swyft]

Why lvl 60? lvl 1 tracks just as goog. Can just roll like 300 of them on 40 accounts.

LMFAO! level 1 track is just as good omfg learn to play. But it's an easy fix make every zone with large raid targets no lvl restriction. Like solb and Perma used to be and sebs, hate and fear already are.

[RIP The Jacka]

i honestly believe variance would promote more pvp than static spawn timers on the red server.

Yesterday? Less pvp than any other day.

[daasgoot]

did they implement variance yesterday? was't aware of that.

[Swyft]

Pvp all over norrath. What u r problem nerd? Having trouble finding it? 8)

what's you mains name so we can all see how hardcore of a player you are and how much you value pvp?

Or don't and stop talking like you have actually ever pvp'd without being everyones bitch or standing behind 80 other players.

i honestly believe variance would promote more pvp than static spawn timers on the red server.

No possible way it couldn't promote more pvp, guilds would be forced to split their numbers to hold zones to check for pops. You could no longer log in 80 people and kill every boss, you'd have to continually fight in multiple zones to know whats up.

And I honestly believe that you believe that.

So do you that's why your against it, like you've said multiple times you don't care about pvp you just want uncontested pixels if Variance meant more pixels for you you'd sign up right away

[Baugi]

LMFAO! level 1 track is just as good omfg learn to play. But it's an easy fix make every zone with large raid targets no lvl restriction. Like solb and Perma used to be and sebs, hate and fear already are.

Then you just bind the tracker in zone *shrug*

[Genedin]

It really comes down to who has more neck beard unemployed or "work from home" in the guild.

Both guilds have lvl 1 ranger, both guilds see at same time mob is up, both guilds
Bat phone. Who is going to have the first number of people that can contest in zone the fastest to snipe mob or kill competition.

Considering holo is raiding 60 deep on a Tuesday at 2pm I'm not sure it would really help to be honest but I understand the pro variance concept to enable competition on a pvp server.

[Kergan]

I know that if my level 1 tracker alt got killed I'd concede victory right then and there.

[Swyft]

Then you just bind the tracker in zone *shrug*

Only class that could be bound in zone is a druid lol and druid track is about as good as los.

[Susvain2]

If we had Variance, when something finally spawns in the middle of the night, Azrael will batphone and get 5-10 people, instead of the 20 people they can get for raid-target PvP when there is a known timer

[RIP The Jacka]

Yesterday samething. Unannounced server reset/repop. Consider it variance practice. 0 pvp.

Bk/ssyft mad bad atpvp8)

[GradnerLives]

If we had Variance, when something finally spawns in the middle of the night, Azrael will batphone and get 5-10 people, instead of the 20 people they can get for raid-target PvP when there is a known timer

qft.


GMs, are you listening to our pleas? Variance required immediately. Holo's giving it 110% but only getting 95% in return.

[daasgoot]

its not the same.. at all.

[RIP The Jacka]

Oh? 8)

Felt the same 2 me. 8)

AZ lost and cried

[Kergan]

Yeah it's not the same at all because nobody was poopsock tracking shit.

[Formshifter]

you consider rolling 60+ deep with static spawn timers working for pixels? lol


its work if pvp happens. plus they zerg because theyre bad, so its still work for them

[Baugi]

Only class that could be bound in zone is a druid lol and druid track is about as good as los.

If I were doing it, my "tracker" for most things would consist of a lvl 1 caster bound appropriately + a log parser to watch for the mob and send me a notification. I suspect I could run about ~8 of those per cheap box without optimization.

[Swyft]

All Holocaust and Fresh against it why?

Because they would lose pixels, no reason given for how it could possibly result in less pixels for anyone when nearly 100% of the pixels already go to Holo/Fresh zerg.

You want us to believe you could mobilize fast as a zerg. LMFAO I was Holocaust noobs you guys wont roll out if even one of you is unbuffed, I would even get bitched out for using jaundice clicks when I had 60 people to buff.

You want us to believe level 1 trackers will result in the same thing, lmfao oh yea lemme know how those level 1 trackers help in Hate/Fear/Sebs/VP lol.

This shit is just hilarious just say it guys you want to roll 80 to every mob, and farm every pixel, because no one is buying this variance could be worse than it already is crap.

[Kergan]

Variance is for stupid morans

[Swyft]

Variance is for stupid morans

Nope it's for people who want to pvp on a pvp server, which you clearly have never had an interest in.

[RIP The Jacka]

All Holocaust and Fresh against it why?

Because they would lose pixels, no reason given for how it could possibly result in less pixels for anyone when nearly 100% of the pixels already go to Holo/Fresh zerg.

You want us to believe you could mobilize fast as a zerg. LMFAO I was Holocaust noobs you guys wont roll out if even one of you is unbuffed, I would even get bitched out for using jaundice clicks when I had 60 people to buff.

You want us to believe level 1 trackers will result in the same thing, lmfao oh yea lemme know how those level 1 trackers help in Hate/Fear/Sebs/VP lol.

This shit is just hilarious just say it guys you want to roll 80 to every mob, and farm every pixel, because no one is buying this variance could be worse than it already is crap.

http://i.imgur.com/sl25ZdE.gif

[Gitem]

Holocaust very concerned about server health, which is why they continue to tag anybody that will accept their tag even after gm criticism.

[Swyft]

http://i.imgur.com/sl25ZdE.gif

Still waiting for you to tell us your main and prove to us what a badass pvper you are.

[Susvain2]

plus, ya'll love to talk shit about us bluebies, but i know you like the server more now than the 80 population you had for years

so if ya put in variance, maybe you'd lose alot of bluebies, so that alone wouldn't make it worth it

[GradnerLives]

All holo/fresh anti variance?

I've stated my opinion multiple times. Please implement variance so the whining stops and the winning intensifies for holo!

My beard is ready.

[daasgoot]

who is whining? seems like a normal conversation with people making different points and sharing their opinion on a topic.

grow up dude lol

[RIP The Jacka]

Holocaust didnt avoid pvp and still won the best mobs

[GradnerLives]

The 8000th thread on this topic is as whiny as the 8-9th thread on this topic was. These discussions stopped being productive a long time ago.

Not a very normal conversation, many burgers displayed (i.e. mouth frothing rage at the mere mention of blue server variance failure). Please implement variance ASAP!

[Rekrul]

Holocaust very concerned about server health, which is why they continue to tag anybody that will accept their tag even after gm criticism.

if az wasn't around anymore holo would just keep zerging every other guild, then tell anyone who complains to create their own guild while they breathe down its neck with 80deep and poach their members.

The server population is too small for a giant zerg. Red with the holozerg has just become only an easier blue or a boring red depending on who you are.

[daasgoot]

no other guild on the server has enough people to fight holocaust head on and win the mob.

what is your point?

if holo even thinks there will be close to an even fight and they have a chance at losing the pixels they enroll fresh for warmbody support.

[Kergan]

Nope it's for people who want to pvp on a pvp server, which you clearly have never had an interest in.

Naw, for morans

[Swyft]

Holocaust didnt avoid pvp and still won the best mobs

You keep talking about winning mobs and rocking shit in pvp i wanna know who your toon is let us marvel at the skill of this majestic slayer.

Or talk a lot of shit on a guy who is afraid to say who he is, that will really impress us.

plus, ya'll love to talk shit about us bluebies, but i know you like the server more now than the 80 population you had for years

so if ya put in variance, maybe you'd lose alot of bluebies, so that alone wouldn't make it worth it

Your sooo right you should win pixels simply for showing up, you should be handed awards solely for your attendance. Because this is a blue server and you should get the best gear even if your 114 deaths with 2 kills...wait a second!

[Susvain2]

I think the most fun this server could be if it was 60v60 fights. So why not just recruit more, or do you hate pvp?

[Kergan]

They tried that and got griefed off the server by Nihilum.

[daasgoot]

I think the most fun this server could be if it was 60v60 fights. So why not just recruit more, or do you hate pvp?

i think 30v30v30v30 sounds like more fun.. but thats just a personal opinions obvs.

[Swyft]

plus, ya'll love to talk shit about us bluebies, but i know you like the server more now than the 80 population you had for years

so if ya put in variance, maybe you'd lose alot of bluebies, so that alone wouldn't make it worth it

Do you know why we had an 80 zerg because all the leaders of your guild did this shit for years in Nihilum till everyone just left. And that same shit is gonna happen again.

You even have a GM telling you its gonna happen again and like a retard you just repeat the same taking pts being spouted by the very same people that helped this be an 80 person server for so long.

[Susvain2]

i think 30v30v30v30 sounds like more fun.. but thats just a personal opinions obvs.

ehh you're right that would be alot of fun

[Gitem]

i think 30v30v30v30 sounds like more fun.. but thats just a personal opinions obvs.

problem is that on this server that turns into a 30v30v60 then a 30v90 then a 15v105.

[Susvain2]

but Kunark is played out and Holo is doing more good by getting tons of people Velious ready, so they'll stick around

[Gitem]

but Kunark is played out and Holo is doing more good by getting tons of people Velious ready, so they'll stick around

they'll stick around and stay in the same guild with lop sided numbers eventually making the server the same as it was when nihilum was practically the only guild to join.


just turn off pvp already.

[Swyft]

Bottom line Variance would be good for pvp. You know it would be good for pvp when everyone who's against it spends all their online time trying to avoid pvp at all costs unless a pixel is involved.

I personally don't give a shit about the pixels I just want the more pvp that will stem from trying to lock down zones to find pops. Doesn't help me personally in any way, I get all my pixels from rolling new toons into holocaust.

[Glenzig]

After reading the thread so far I have come to a firm conclusions out those who are hardcore in favor of variance.
There are really only three possible answers for this.
1. They don't actually grasp what variance is and are confusing it with something else, like simulated re-pops.
2. They know what variance is and have either been convinced, or have convinced themselves that it will breed more pvp and competition. They are wrong.
3. They know exactly what is involved with variance, but they don't care that it will be horrible for the server because they just want to have a shot at sniping an easy raid mob every week without pvp while still having time to try to interrupt other guilds raid attempts.

Just say no to variance. Variance = blue raid scene. No amount of pvp could make variance worth it.

[Drakaris]

You do realize even some of the most hard core beards on blue are leaving it because of variance

It is horrible

+1

Variance is retarded, if you have variance, then at least have linked spawns, eg CT, inny, vs spawning at the same time... that way all guilds get a chance...

[RIP The Jacka]

Last night was variance. 0 pvp.

[GradnerLives]

problem is that on this server that turns into a 30v30v60 then a 30v90 then a 15v105.

Diplomacy, Alliances and Tactical thinking will allow several groups to overthrow a larger entity.

Variance will not.

[Swyft]

After reading the thread so far I have come to a firm conclusions out those who are hardcore in favor of variance.
There are really only three possible answers for this.
1. They don't actually grasp what variance is and are confusing it with something else, like simulated re-pops.
2. They know what variance is and have either been convinced, or have convinced themselves that it will breed more pvp and competition. They are wrong.
3. They know exactly what is involved with variance, but they don't care that it will be horrible for the server because they just want to have a shot at sniping an easy raid mob every week without pvp while still having time to try to interrupt other guilds raid attempts.

Just say no to variance. Variance = blue raid scene. No amount of pvp could make variance worth it.

One thing is for sure static timers aren't bringing more pvp and they certainly aren't bringing more people to contest the 80 man zerg waiting hours in advance to each pop.

That's a fact, all that shit your saying is an opinion, and honestly wtf should we take the opinion of a blue who doesn't give a shit about pvp and dies eveytime he tries it?

First prove to us

A. you care about pvp

Or

B. you are competent in it

Then well give a shit about your opinions on the matter. But Im gonna go to a martial arts master to learn martial arts not Dan the fat guy down the street.

[Glenzig]

Last night was variance. 0 pvp.

No. Last night was re-pop. Totally different.

[Kergan]

So gr8 to have Syft the village idiot back FQing :)

[Glenzig]

One thing is for sure static timers aren't bringing more pvp and they certainly aren't bringing more people to contest the 80 man zerg waiting hours in advance to each pop.

That's a fact, all that shit your saying is an opinion, and honestly wtf should we take the opinion of a blue who doesn't give a shit about pvp and dies eveytime he tries it?

First prove to us

A. you care about pvp

Or

B. you are competent in it

Then well give a shit about your opinions on the matter. But Im gonna go to a martial arts master to learn martial arts not Dan the fat guy down the street.

What character do I play?
You know exactly where and when mobs are spawning now. How much more convenient can you get if all you want is pvp. You know exactly where the zerg is going to be. Its not the fault of a game mechanic that no one is contesting. Outing mobs in a 6 or 8 or 16 hour window will not increase pvp. If anything it will nearly eliminate it. It will make it easier for the zerg, and it will give them one more recruiting advantage.

[Glenzig]

Putting*.

[daasgoot]

can you give any reasons why you feel this way?

[Drakaris]

What character do I play?
You know exactly where and when mobs are spawning now. How much more convenient can you get if all you want is pvp. You know exactly where the zerg is going to be. Its not the fault of a game mechanic that no one is contesting. Outing mobs in a 6 or 8 or 16 hour window will not increase pvp. If anything it will nearly eliminate it. It will make it easier for the zerg, and it will give them one more recruiting advantage.

This guys on the ball!

It will mean holo will need to croot even more to ensure there is a spread of active players across all timezones...

Variance also means ppl will be pushing spawns across multiple days of the week and keep characters parked at the next spawn window, plus at least 1/3 to half of holocaust members have more than 1 epic level 60 character, meaning characters can be parked at multiple locations...

But the upside of variance will give me a chance to raid in my timezone, since the new server reset is on my Monday morning... while I'm at work... earning money...

[Swyft]

Well when the largest zerg gets 98-100% of the mobs each week and it's been that way going back 3 years i don't think you need to be a genius to figure out that's not working.

Will variance change this, IDK sounds like a solid plan but only implementing it would tell for certain, I know exactly what doing the same thing will accomplish tho.

but as a man I know I can't win an argument with a buncha chicks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f_oxZqD6wQ

[Drakaris]

Well when the largest zerg gets 98-100% of the mobs each week and it's been that way going back 3 years i don't think you need to be a genius to figure out that's not working.

Will variance change this, IDK sounds like a solid plan but only implementing it would tell for certain, I know exactly what doing the same thing will accomplish tho.

but as a man I know I can't win an argument with a buncha chicks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f_oxZqD6wQ

Tbh variance is a trash bag solutuon. Linked spawns is the way to go. However, given the info leaked from ex Azrael players re internal guild drama, lite likes to cherry pick raid targets for certain ppl and generally ignores the harder stuff (eg hoshkar/nexona) even when ppl need items because it's not "worth the effort".

[Swyft]

Tbh variance is a trash bag solutuon. Linked spawns is the way to go. However, given the info leaked from ex Azrael players re internal guild drama, lite likes to cherry pick raid targets for certain ppl and generally ignores the harder stuff (eg hoshkar/nexona) even when ppl need items because it's not "worth the effort".

Weren't you Nihilum/holocaust your entire time on this server? yeah clearly you wish to stop one guild from getting all the pixels and we should hear what you to say as it obviously comes from an unbiased informed viewpoint.

[MavstabYoudead]

Tbh variance is a trash bag solutuon. Linked spawns is the way to go. However, given the info leaked from ex Azrael players re internal guild drama, lite likes to cherry pick raid targets for certain ppl and generally ignores the harder stuff (eg hoshkar/nexona) even when ppl need items because it's not "worth the effort".

sounds like credible sources...lulz

[Glenzig]

Well when the largest zerg gets 98-100% of the mobs each week and it's been that way going back 3 years i don't think you need to be a genius to figure out that's not working.

Will variance change this, IDK sounds like a solid plan but only implementing it would tell for certain, I know exactly what doing the same thing will accomplish tho.

but as a man I know I can't win an argument with a buncha chicks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f_oxZqD6wQ

So the biggest guild on the server has always gotten the mobs? You know this and yet refuse to grow your guild. You want to be a small guild that focuses on pvp. Awesome. Red needs those, and I respect people who want to play that way. But, realize what you're trading off for that playstyle. All the raid mobs. You cannot have it both ways. You said it yourself, its been that way since day 1. This is no surprise.
If you are really so pvp centric and only want variance for more pvp- which anyone with half a brain knows is a joke, then be glad and rejoice! You have the perfect setup for pvp right now. And plenty of blue players in the zerg to stick it to.
Can't contest 80 with 25? Try to figure out a number you can contest with. After that you have two options. Recruit to that number. Or form raid alliances with other pvp centric guilds. Give yourself a fighting chance before you enter the fight. Otherwise, just sit back and keep doing what you're doing. Cause if you don't want to change to keep up, then what you have must be pretty good, right?

[GradnerLives]

So the biggest guild on the server has always gotten the mobs? You know this and yet refuse to grow your guild. You want to be a small guild that focuses on pvp. Awesome. Red needs those, and I respect people who want to play that way. But, realize what you're trading off for that playstyle. All the raid mobs. You cannot have it both ways. You said it yourself, its been that way since day 1. This is no surprise.
If you are really so pvp centric and only want variance for more pvp- which anyone with half a brain knows is a joke, then be glad and rejoice! You have the perfect setup for pvp right now. And plenty of blue players in the zerg to stick it to.
Can't contest 80 with 25? Try to figure out a number you can contest with. After that you have two options. Recruit to that number. Or form raid alliances with other pvp centric guilds. Give yourself a fighting chance before you enter the fight. Otherwise, just sit back and keep doing what you're doing. Cause if you don't want to change to keep up, then what you have must be pretty good, right?

qft.

We may disagree on spirituality and evolutionary theory, but we're kindred spirits on the topic of variance, brother glenzig.

[Drakaris]

Weren't you Nihilum/holocaust your entire time on this server? yeah clearly you wish to stop one guild from getting all the pixels and we should hear what you to say as it obviously comes from an unbiased informed viewpoint.

LOL you're kidding right?

Nihilum was an underdog when Nizzar took a break, all the vets decided to go bye-bye and it was me, Tune and Vapo with a few ex Red Dawn players in rags fighting against 20+ Azrael, until Willan decided to bring some ppl back and attempt to lead some guild pvp...

I was in both Smoke Break and God's Work for a number of months, until Smoke Break got absorbed by Holo, so I became Holo and God's Work, often helping Holo members with epic quests and attending their raids until the crown of betrayal drama, when I took a break due to a health scare and not wanting to undo all the hard work I've put into gearing Holo and helping new players by turning into Azrael retarded twin.

U act as if I never played the underdog like the retard you are. I play the most and try the hardest as the underdog.

I roll with Holo because they aren't toxic, they took in my Aussie pals and geared them up when God's Work told them to piss off and tried to sell them epic MQs, which they should have gotten as full members in Nihilum before it got disbanded.

Where is all that ex-Nihilum guild bank plat gone now? Where is Vapo now? Looks like I made the right choice here if you ask me, considering he banned me from his TS on a false accusation, showing his true colours.

TLDR - Swyft suffering from burgers again...

[Gitem]

I love how nihilum was the under dog when only one person was missing.

fucking wiener.

[GradnerLives]

I love how nihilum was the under dog when only one person was missing.

fucking wiener.

Not just a man, but a DUKE, sir. A noble Duke.

[Glenzig]

qft.

We may disagree on spirituality and evolutionary theory, but we're kindred spirits on the topic of variance, brother glenzig.

See EQ pvp brings smart people together. Proven fact.

[Susvain2]

One thing is for sure static timers aren't bringing more pvp and they certainly aren't bringing more people to contest the 80 man zerg waiting hours in advance to each pop.

That's a fact, all that shit your saying is an opinion, and honestly wtf should we take the opinion of a blue who doesn't give a shit about pvp and dies eveytime he tries it?



That's not a fact lol.

[Swyft]

LOL you're kidding right?

Nihilum was an underdog when Nizzar took a break, all the vets decided to go bye-bye and it was me, Tune and Vapo with a few ex Red Dawn players in rags fighting against 20+ Azrael, until Willan decided to bring some ppl back and attempt to lead some guild pvp...

I was in both Smoke Break and God's Work for a number of months, until Smoke Break got absorbed by Holo, so I became Holo and God's Work, often helping Holo members with epic quests and attending their raids until the crown of betrayal drama, when I took a break due to a health scare and not wanting to undo all the hard work I've put into gearing Holo and helping new players by turning into Azrael retarded twin.

U act as if I never played the underdog like the retard you are. I play the most and try the hardest as the underdog.

I roll with Holo because they aren't toxic, they took in my Aussie pals and geared them up when God's Work told them to piss off and tried to sell them epic MQs, which they should have gotten as full members in Nihilum before it got disbanded.

Where is all that ex-Nihilum guild bank plat gone now? Where is Vapo now? Looks like I made the right choice here if you ask me, considering he banned me from his TS on a false accusation, showing his true colours.

TLDR - Swyft suffering from burgers again...

I didn't read your idiotic rant because.. well your an idiot. I think if you ever made any sense we'd all die of shock.

Maybe you can tell us new stories how awesome you are in pvp even tho you plug or run like bitch every fight. Or tell us how Nihilum wasn't filled with reject toxics that ruined the box.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/NihilumEmbaressment_zps8fc77a12.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/NihilumEmbaressment_zps8fc77a12.jpg.html)

In before Drakar's story time...

[Drakaris]

I love how nihilum was the under dog when only one person was missing.

fucking wiener.


"Nizzar took a break, all the vets decided to go bye-bye"

Learn to read...

Many of the Vets took a break when Nizzar took a break, the guy was able to get people to rally better than any other guild leader on this box.

When his return was announced, half the vets came to contest and we stomped Azrael in EJ for 3 hours or so while they bind rushed us.

When Nizzar came back, vets were in with a full showing and Azrael got crushed into the dirt.

What more is there to say?

I played in both the ups and downs of Nihilum, Holocaust and God's Work. Not a fair weather raider like most of Azrael, who miraculously show up for uncontested raids over Christmas.

[Drakaris]

I didn't read your idiotic rant because.. well your an idiot. I think if you ever made any sense we'd all die of shock.

Maybe you can tell us new stories how awesome you are in pvp even tho you plug or run like bitch every fight. Or tell us how Nihilum wasn't filled with reject toxics that ruined the box.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/NihilumEmbaressment_zps8fc77a12.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/NihilumEmbaressment_zps8fc77a12.jpg.html)

In before Drakar's story time...

No one likes you.

[Swyft]

I roll with Holo because they aren't toxic, they took in my Aussie pals and geared them up when God's Work told them to piss off and tried to sell them epic MQs, which they should have gotten as full members in Nihilum before it got disbanded.

Where is all that ex-Nihilum guild bank plat gone now? Where is Vapo now? Looks like I made the right choice here if you ask me, considering he banned me from his TS on a false accusation, showing his true colours.

TLDR - Swyft suffering from burgers again...

Gongshow-Ex-Nihilum
Dongshow-Ex Nihilum
Terp/Miley/Pyro-Ex Nihilum
Drakar/Skar-Ex Nihilum
Handpartytowel/Hellenkeller-Ex Nihilum
Ajax-Ex Nihilum
Stasis-Ex Nihilum
Waspando-Ex Nihilum

this list is cut short because Drakar is a moran

[Drakaris]

Gongshow-Ex-Nihilum
Dongshow-Ex Nihilum
Terp/Miley/Pyro-Ex Nihilum
Drakar/Skar-Ex Nihilum
Handpartytowel/Hellenkeller-Ex Nihilum
Ajax-Ex Nihilum
Stasis-Ex Nihilum
Waspando-Ex Nihilum

this list is cut short because Drakar is a moran

What are you going on about RETARD?

Learn to read:
"Where is all that ex-Nihilum guild bank plat gone now? Where is Vapo now?"

I asked about the guild bank plat which Vapo had taken control of before the guild disbanded. Pixelpalace shows up out of the blue selling big ticket items for cheap prices, while the ex Nihilum banks log in one after the other transferring items to Pixelpalace... nothing to see here boys... move along...

[Gitem]

pick better leaders. it's going to happen again.

[Swyft]

What are you going on about RETARD?

Learn to read:
"Where is all that ex-Nihilum guild bank plat gone now? Where is Vapo now?"

I asked about the guild bank plat which Vapo had taken control of before the guild disbanded. Pixelpalace shows up out of the blue selling big ticket items for cheap prices, while the ex Nihilum banks log in one after the other transferring items to Pixelpalace... nothing to see here boys... move along...

You were Nihilum and raided uncontested for years, so you join the next zerg made up of almost all the same members and were supposed to believe now they are different?

That the old one was toxic but the new one is great for the box? Seriously are you fucking retarded?

I mean I kinda suspected when you said you only cast deflux on your necro, but if you are really mentally handicapped I'll stop verbally abusing you so badly in public. But you don't make it easy on yourself.

[RIP The Jacka]

Swyft, learn2pvp maybe people will take u more seriously :D

[Drakaris]

You were Nihilum and raided uncontested for years, so you join the next zerg made up of almost all the same members and were supposed to believe now they are different?

That the old one was toxic but the new one is great for the box? Seriously are you fucking retarded?

I mean I kinda suspected when you said you only cast deflux on your necro, but if you are really mentally handicapped I'll stop verbally abusing you so badly in public. But you don't make it easy on yourself.

Again with the retardation. Pre-dispell counters dots were a waste of mana, you countered 2 dots with 1 pumice and could cure ebolts/disease based dots very quickly while casting non-lure wizard nukes for full damage (due to broken spell resists at the time). Necros were the dogshit class of the server, which was why I was like the only active 60 necro in nihilum for about 6 months or so.

We had skirmished a few times and you pelled/cured all my dots until I oomed and I had to gate/levant (not plug) like you suggest. Way to take things out of context.

I've only been on this box since June 2013, so I don't know what this 'Years of uncontested' raiding crap is all about, especially since Nizzar's 2-3 month D3 break happened during my first year in Nihilum.

I feel like I'm wasting my breath and I'm arguing with a braindead stoner. Welcome to ignore again Syft.

[daasgoot]

dat rage tho

http://i.imgur.com/anotAaU.png

[Swyft]

Everyone against variance this is their pvp style

I have 2 kills for every level 60 I have on r99. So like 12-14 kills.

I'm an expert on avoiding pvp and which classes are overpowered, especially defensively.

I also know all vendors that sell gate potions and the quickest route to them.



Call me crazy but i don't think a red server should reward the weakest pvp players simply for showing up with 80 people on static spawns.

I think on a red server you should be forced to fight for your loot and not be handed a trophy for showing up.

There isn't a single argument someone could give that variance could possibly lead to less pvp than we already have on raids. And if you added every player opposing variance kill/deaths you'd have very few kills and whole lotta deaths.

Variance equals more pvp that's why pvper's are for it and blues are against.

[Glenzig]

So what are the exact reasons why variance will increase pvp?

[daasgoot]

So what are the exact reasons why variance will increase pvp?

go back and read thread

[quido]

Now instead of Vaporize getting BIS on 20 characters, 20 people can get BIS on 1 character and we have more pals to play with.

[Baugi]

So what are the exact reasons why variance will increase pvp?

I think most people are cool with it just increasing "sniping". I understand that you think "sniping" is uncool, but I feel like you have a vested interest in lobbying against it.

"Sniping" makes smaller more organized guilds feasible because if you can snag 1/5 mobs but only have to gear 1/5th the number of players, you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger disorganized guild.

If you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger guild, you'll attract people who meet your more organized standards and potentially start to edge out the larger guild. If you start to edge out the larger guild, PVP will presumably happen.

[Baugi]

I think most people are cool with it just increasing "sniping". I understand that you think "sniping" is uncool, but I feel like you have a vested interest in lobbying against it.

"Sniping" makes smaller more organized guilds feasible because if you can snag 1/5th of the spawns but only have to gear 1/5th the number of players, you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger disorganized guild.

If you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger guild, you'll attract people who meet your more organized standards and potentially start to edge out the larger guild. If you start to edge out the larger guild, PVP will presumably happen.

[Doors]

http://i.imgur.com/9zpNJkT.jpg

[Baugi]

Quote button evidently not edit button. Apologies.

[Swyft]

So we should keep doing things the way were doing them that results in the guild who invites the most players getting every raid target?

Like we've done for three years and seen three years of the same guild getting the same raid targets?

So one guild raiding all content uncontested a single day a week and logging off till next repop day sounds like more pvp then people having to roam and control zones to check for pops?

http://static.chlomo.org/archive/5/src/1365743610521_are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg

[Colgate]

didn't read

[Swyft]

didn't read

You even troll like a mad angry kid who never touched a vagina, tell us the one about how you played live at age 7 and retired a hardened vet at 9?

LOL clown

[Colgate]

colgate rank 33

burgerking rank 127

[Glenzig]

So we should keep doing things the way were doing them that results in the guild who invites the most players getting every raid target?

Like we've done for three years and seen three years of the same guild getting the same raid targets?

So one guild raiding all content uncontested a single day a week and logging off till next repop day sounds like more pvp then people having to roam and control zones to check for pops?

http://static.chlomo.org/archive/5/src/1365743610521_are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg

No. You shouldn't do things the same way you've been doing them. You have t gleaned anything at all from what you're being told about variance. Simulated re-pops about twice a month would be a much better solution to the problem your guild is having. Either that or recruiting to the point of being able to contest. Or just wait it out til Velious and keep crying about variance.

P.S. Variance does not cause people to roam zones. Its called spawn points and ranger tracking. Rangers get track at lvl 1 by the way. Those pvp battles between twinked lvl 5 rangers will be epic.

[Erock KVen]

BK Says some crazy shit sometimes, but honestly what he's saying about variance makes sense to me. Especially after experiencing the random repop on sunday I think "raid variance" could really mix things up.

Nirgons argument is Holo will just camp out at the raid mob raid buffed with 70 people, no offense but isn't that what you guys already do? Go ahead camp 70 people out at one mob, have fun mobilizing to the next one on different random timers.

[Erock KVen]

No edit button ^^^

We had more shots at raid targets on Sunday than we have in a while, with mixed in PvP. Take my words twist them, and troll away or whatever it is you people do.

[Glenzig]

I think most people are cool with it just increasing "sniping". I understand that you think "sniping" is uncool, but I feel like you have a vested interest in lobbying against it.

"Sniping" makes smaller more organized guilds feasible because if you can snag 1/5 mobs but only have to gear 1/5th the number of players, you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger disorganized guild.

If you're gearing at the same rate as the bigger guild, you'll attract people who meet your more organized standards and potentially start to edge out the larger guild. If you start to edge out the larger guild, PVP will presumably happen.

I've read in this thread that it takes about an hour to form up for raid on this server. If the smaller guilds are that much more organized, why not get there before Holo and defend the zone? 3 guilds of 20-30 highly skilled and organized pvpers could easily force Holo from the zone and either rotate mobs or pvp each other after Holo is gone. That would be like a 500% increase in pvp right there.

[Glenzig]

BK Says some crazy shit sometimes, but honestly what he's saying about variance makes sense to me. Especially after experiencing the random repop on sunday I think "raid variance" could really mix things up.

Nirgons argument is Holo will just camp out at the raid mob raid buffed with 70 people, no offense but isn't that what you guys already do? Go ahead camp 70 people out at one mob, have fun mobilizing to the next one on different random timers.

You're confusing variance and simulated re-pops. What happened on Sunday was a server restart which forced a re-pop. Variance is a whole different beast.

[daasgoot]

I've read in this thread that it takes about an hour to form up for raid on this server. If the smaller guilds are that much more organized, why not get there before Holo and defend the zone? 3 guilds of 20-30 highly skilled and organized pvpers could easily force Holo from the zone and either rotate mobs or pvp each other after Holo is gone. That would be like a 500% increase in pvp right there.

obv never faught 30v70 b4

[Baugi]

I've read in this thread that it takes about an hour to form up for raid on this server. If the smaller guilds are that much more organized, why not get there before Holo and defend the zone? 3 guilds of 20-30 highly skilled and organized pvpers could easily force Holo from the zone and either rotate mobs or pvp each other after Holo is gone. That would be like a 500% increase in pvp right there.

Organization tends not to hold up when you have to coordinate with 2 other independent groups, but ignoring that...

Who are these three guilds? I guess it'd have to be Azrael, Fresh, and Suave (since the server really only has four raiding guilds)? Why would Fresh and Suave risk the uncontested planar clears Holo gives them to have a massively under-geared fight against Azrael?

Moreover, how do you see the engagement going down? If I were Holo, I'd just wait it out since my opponents' strategy relies on first forcing me out of the zone.

But hell, let's ignore all of that. The one-hour LNS window isn't long to have another PVP battle, rebuff, clear, and down most of these zones.

[Erock KVen]

You're confusing variance and simulated re-pops. What happened on Sunday was a server restart which forced a re-pop. Variance is a whole different beast.

I understand that, however I don't see + / - on a boss spawn a bad thing. That is variance correct? (legit question)

[Drakaris]

I've read in this thread that it takes about an hour to form up for raid on this server. If the smaller guilds are that much more organized, why not get there before Holo and defend the zone? 3 guilds of 20-30 highly skilled and organized pvpers could easily force Holo from the zone and either rotate mobs or pvp each other after Holo is gone. That would be like a 500% increase in pvp right there.

Poor naive friend. Azrael have proven they can muster 40+ players for uncontested pixels.

It is never about pvp or gearing up players. It is about black holing crowns and sow swords and rmting the rest. Just talk to their ex members in holocaust.

[Swyft]

I understand that, however I don't see + / - on a boss spawn a bad thing. That is variance correct? (legit question)

Variance would be random respawns of raid mobs, basically you never know when they are gonna pop, so the people who are already in the zone have the highest chance of getting the mob down.

This of course would lead to much less pixels for a zerg as it defeats the very nature of a zerg, which is a planned force of greater numbers than any guild can muster to defeat.

Holocaust is much slower at mobilizing because buffing and preparing 80 people takes much longer than a smaller crew. Holocaust also doesn't fare so well in small scale pvp engagements which is why they don't try to compete for mobs without 5x the opposing forces numbers. As we've seen in the past when they ask Fresh for aid when they only have 20 more members than Azrael. They also require 4x the numbers of other guilds to defeat raid targets like wipping to gorenaire with 60 members.

In order for a zerg to control all content with variance they would need to maintain a steady force in all zones at all times, something we all know Holocaust cannot and does not do as we often control KC and Sebs on non raid days.

So inevitably it would lead to raid loot being more evenly distributed between Suave, Fresh and Azrael and not just Holocaust. They know this but wont say it because lol they like having all the loot go to them just like Nihilum did.

Instead of trying to make any logical argument they resort to flaming and making idiotic conclusions a 4th grader could see through it's kinda like a cigarette company telling you smoking is good for you, while everyone around them is dying of cancer.

Basically as long as they are getting loot fuck the rest of the server.

[Flexin]

Variance would promote more pvp, don't understand how anyone thinks otherwise. Doesn't have to be some absurd amount, +/- 6-8 would work.

[Kergan]

Variance would be random respawns of raid mobs, basically you never know when they are gonna pop, so the people who are already in the zone have the highest chance of getting the mob down.

This of course would lead to much less pixels for a zerg as it defeats the very nature of a zerg, which is a planned force of greater numbers than any guild can muster to defeat.

Holocaust is much slower at mobilizing because buffing and preparing 80 people takes much longer than a smaller crew. Holocaust also doesn't fare so well in small scale pvp engagements which is why they don't try to compete for mobs without 5x the opposing forces numbers. As we've seen in the past when they ask Fresh for aid when they only have 20 more members than Azrael. They also require 4x the numbers of other guilds to defeat raid targets like wipping to gorenaire with 60 members.

In order for a zerg to control all content with variance they would need to maintain a steady force in all zones at all times, something we all know Holocaust cannot and does not do as we often control KC and Sebs on non raid days.

So inevitably it would lead to raid loot being more evenly distributed between Suave, Fresh and Azrael and not just Holocaust. They know this but wont say it because lol they like having all the loot go to them just like Nihilum did.

Instead of trying to make any logical argument they resort to flaming and making idiotic conclusions a 4th grader could see through it's kinda like a cigarette company telling you smoking is good for you, while everyone around them is dying of cancer.

Basically as long as they are getting loot fuck the rest of the server.

Confirmed retard.

[Kergan]

*also TLDR

[Swyft]

*also TLDR

damn you suck at the game and forumquesting, you must be the worst troll I've ever seen. unoriginal, lame and whiny.

[Kergan]

mad bad sad

also retarded

[Swyft]

mad bad sad

also retarded

If you left the server and forums no one would even notice your gone. Except your wife as she would now be forced to make up more convincing excuses to tell you when she was out fucking real men who's balls are big enough to risk death in a video game.

[Kergan]

I will never leave these forums pal, I am part of it's foundation.

[Smedy]

You do realize even some of the most hard core beards on blue are leaving it because of variance

It is horrible

its horrible cause you can't compete on who gets what you old fuck, it's that simple

on red99 there would be none of that bullshit, the only thing that would change is that the neckbeards would have to be scouting a lot of shit and that would lead to a lot more small scale pvp and random scirmishes, it would be great on red99, great for everyone except the current zerg, which you lobbyquest for

[Glenzig]

Well I guess now that Azrael absorbed <Suave> you have more to contest with. And one less faction to complain about. Not that <Suave> was ever anything more than Azrael's recruitment guild to begin with. But I guess it should even the playing field slightly.

[Gitem]

Well I guess now that Azrael absorbed <Suave> you have more to contest with. And one less faction to complain about. Not that <Suave> was ever anything more than Azrael's recruitment guild to begin with. But I guess it should even the playing field slightly.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/97/83/48/978348f21a36e401a6b777c2edbc76bb.jpg

[heartbrand]

Wish we could try variance for a month or two just to shut everyone up

[Swyft]

Well I guess now that Azrael absorbed <Suave> you have more to contest with. And one less faction to complain about. Not that <Suave> was ever anything more than Azrael's recruitment guild to begin with. But I guess it should even the playing field slightly.

You're missing the point about variance, because like a true blue all you care about is pixels.

The point of variance is not knowing exactly when the mob will spawn. This forces players to be active on the server and not just log in their mains one day a week. The leaders of holocaust only log on their mains one day to avoid deaths, sorry but that goes against the very spirit of what a pvp server should be about.

It's sad that we have to think of reasons to force people into pvp, on a pvp server but that is literally what it has become here. Truth is most of the players in zergs dont even want to play on this server they just don't want to wait in line on blue and would rather easy roll pixels with zergs.

[Swyft]

http://www.maxrev.de/files/2012/02/bump_1329561176.jpg

[Kergan]

You're missing the point about variance, because like a true blue all you care about is pixels.

The point of variance is not knowing exactly when the mob will spawn. This forces players to be active on the server and not just log in their mains one day a week. The leaders of holocaust only log on their mains one day to avoid deaths, sorry but that goes against the very spirit of what a pvp server should be about.

It's sad that we have to think of reasons to force people into pvp, on a pvp server but that is literally what it has become here. Truth is most of the players in zergs dont even want to play on this server they just don't want to wait in line on blue and would rather easy roll pixels with zergs.

Dum

also TLDR

[heals4reals]

bluebie would ask for variance

[GradnerLives]

You're missing the point about variance, because like a true blue all you care about is pixels.

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.

The point of variance is not knowing exactly when the mob will spawn. This forces players to be active on the server and not just log in their mains one day a week. The leaders of holocaust only log on their mains one day to avoid deaths, sorry but that goes against the very spirit of what a pvp server should be about.

Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.

It's sad that we have to think of reasons to force people into pvp, on a pvp server but that is literally what it has become here. Truth is most of the players in zergs dont even want to play on this server they just don't want to wait in line on blue and would rather easy roll pixels with zergs.

This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

[Kergan]

rekt

[Swyft]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

Your comparing blue to red...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

You wanna talk about logic..here's some real logic for you...

nothing can be worse than one guild getting every spawn...nothing!

We tried static spawns for 3 years doesn't work, so trying something new can't be any worse than the system we already have.

http://devilsfoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/insanity-einstein-quote-ehegyergugu.jpg

[daasgoot]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone. long term pvp battles for zone control. also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

[Swyft]

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone. long term pvp battles for zone control. also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

Pointless to argue this ramble his whole argument revolves around the idea that a tracker can sit in zones with no lvl limit unmolested. Which makes zero sense on red whatsoever.

They are reaching, they have no reason for how variance could be worse than the same people getting every mob in the game for 3 years by throwing warm bodies at it.

In his mind trackers like Quiet are just gonna sit in fear/hate/sebs/vp all day like it's a blue server.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

Yea ok, there goes that retarded theory!

[Drakaris]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

Sweetest post in this thread!

A++

Notice the people pushing for variance are Azrael players WHO DO NOT LOG ON THEIR CHARACTERS FOR ANYTHING BUT PD SNIPES?

You will seldom find their guild going out of their way, helping people camp fingerbone hoops, or doing random exp gorups... They will have their core farmers who do cross server plat trades/RMT and their gank squds...

They make 0 contribution to the community and shit things up with their excessive trolling and shit talking.

[GradnerLives]

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone.

In zones with enforced pvp range, a lvl 1 ranger will suffice as mentioned earlier. In zones with no enforced pvp range you can simply bind in zone or login/logout on a regular interval. Nevertheless, the goal of the tracker will simply be to see if the mob is up, not to avoid getting killed. Multiple trackers also trivialize it.

Who do you think's going to burnout first? the guild spending 24 hours a day tracking and killing lvl 1 rangers, or the guild whose tracker has to look up at the screen every so often?

long term pvp battles for zone control.

What's the point of zone control if your entire force is going to login buffed at the target within 2-3 minutes of a batphone? Worst case scenario, you login to PVP fully buffed/ready and vastly outnumbering the opposition, best case scenario they actually try to snipe it and get dunked once your overwhelming force appears out of thin air.

also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

Many people have multiple 60's they can camp at multiple targets.

TMO never had a problem keeping control even with FTE rules and many examples of overlapping windows over the course of their domination of blue. You push the spawn windows to overlap as little as possible, and then you can prioritize based on a %chance to spawn (based on how late the target is in its window) and how difficult it is to mobilize (trak, VP, Fay as good examples of tougher mobilization).

If trakaman is in window and so is CT, you camp at trak ledge ready to port to CT if necessary since trak is harder to clear to and fear is a port and a zone away. If PD has 2 hours left in window and trak just entered window, you stay logged at PD since he's most likely going to spawn before trak because he's later in his window. Not rocket science.

Whatever way you look at it, less PVP than we have currently.

[GradnerLives]

Remember, also, as I think you guys are missing this. A tracker does not have to be a class with track. Almost every mob in the game can be face tracked from a safe vantage point.

If they bind there, then you can kill them all you want. I'm sure it will be good for you elite leaderboard status. You still won't be ruining anyone's chance at catching the dragon.

[daasgoot]

all i got out of that post was the many ways you plan to avoid pvp.

no pvp lvl restriction in raid mob zones (except for a few). variance. more frequent server resets. better server with more pvp.



Whatever way you look at it, less PVP than we have currently.

Please implement variance ASAP!


glad to have you on red pal, maybe we can all be as cool as you one day.

[Swyft]

In zones with enforced pvp range, a lvl 1 ranger will suffice as mentioned earlier. In zones with no enforced pvp range you can simply bind in zone or login/logout on a regular interval. Nevertheless, the goal of the tracker will simply be to see if the mob is up, not to avoid getting killed. Multiple trackers also trivialize it.

Who do you think's going to burnout first? the guild spending 24 hours a day tracking and killing lvl 1 rangers, or the guild whose tracker has to look up at the screen every so often?



What's the point of zone control if your entire force is going to login buffed at the target within 2-3 minutes of a batphone? Worst case scenario, you login to PVP fully buffed/ready and vastly outnumbering the opposition, best case scenario they actually try to snipe it and get dunked once your overwhelming force appears out of thin air.



Many people have multiple 60's they can camp at multiple targets.

TMO never had a problem keeping control even with FTE rules and many examples of overlapping windows over the course of their domination of blue. You push the spawn windows to overlap as little as possible, and then you can prioritize based on a %chance to spawn (based on how late the target is in its window) and how difficult it is to mobilize (trak, VP, Fay as good examples of tougher mobilization).

If trakaman is in window and so is CT, you camp at trak ledge ready to port to CT if necessary since trak is harder to clear to and fear is a port and a zone away. If PD has 2 hours left in window and trak just entered window, you stay logged at PD since he's most likely going to spawn before trak because he's later in his window. Not rocket science.

Whatever way you look at it, less PVP than we have currently.

No level limit in Sebs/Fear/Hate/VP!

What part of that are you not getting???

No you can't use lvl 1 trackers for those raid targets, yes they are some of the most sought after raid targets in the game!

Please explain how you will:

A. Be able to track targets in those zones on a red server without PvP'ing.

B. Be able to log out your raid force in 4 different zones simultaneously.

C. Mobilize 70 people in 2-3 mins of a batphone(lmfao you kidding me kid I was Holocaust with batphone 1 week in advance it took an hour on average.)

D. how do you track something, when you're dead?

You do know that track radius increases with skill lvl right? You answer is always but TMO did this, lol guess what buddy TMO didn't have to worry about there trackers dying, you realize that kills your whole argument?

[GradnerLives]

all i got out of that post was the many ways you plan to avoid pvp.

If I'm responsible for tracking a mob for a period of time, I'm going to do it the best way I can. Don't want to waste my guild's time or mine. Keeping zone control for 16 hours straight is unfeasible and not anywhere close to optimal.

no pvp lvl restriction in raid mob zones (except for a few). variance. more frequent server resets. better server with more pvp.

Bind at facetrack spot. Look up in between YTs.

glad to have you on red pal, maybe we can all be as cool as you one day.

I was making a point earlier that holo doesn't want variance because it's dumb, not because we'll lose a hold on the raid mobs. If you want variance I support your decision since I know holo will adapt to it, but I also know it won't lead to the pvp utopia you've dreamed up so I'm inclined to editorialize.

Azrael always in favor of negative pop. Not surprised by your response, pal.

[Swyft]

If I'm responsible for tracking a mob for a period of time, I'm going to do it the best way I can. Don't want to waste my guild's time or mine. Keeping zone control for 16 hours straight is unfeasible and not anywhere close to optimal.



Bind at facetrack spot. Look up in between YTs.



I was making a point earlier that holo doesn't want variance because it's dumb, not because we'll lose a hold on the raid mobs. If you want variance I support your decision since I know holo will adapt to it, but I also know it won't lead to the pvp utopia you've dreamed up so I'm inclined to editorialize.

Azrael always in favor of negative pop. Not surprised by your response, pal.

There has never been anything that conclusively shows a negative impact on servers population more than a single guild controlling every raid target for an extended period of time.

When Nihilum left server increased, if holocaust continues on the recruit everyone and ally with Fresh for contested raid targets the server pop will also begin to spiral downward. Just as we saw before from Nihilum.

It is exactly because you would lose raid targets, you know there is zero chance Azrael will burn out looking for people to kill in the zones they spend ALL DAY looking for people in. But it is certain that blues will burn OUT fast and lose raid targets if they are forced to pvp in multiple zones at the same time for them.

You have never been able to fight Azrael with equal numbers, and do hold every raid target in the world you would be forced to split your forces or let some raid mobs go.

Either way Holocaust not having 100% of all raid targets is good for the server and it's population and this would be caused by variance. I have 100% successful track record of calling exactly whats gonna happen on the server, hows yours?

[Kergan]

TLDR

Critical immersion levels.

FQ tryhard

also retarded

[Swyft]

TLDR

Critical immersion levels.

FQ tryhard

also retarded

Prolly the worst troll ever, might be the first person I put on ignore just for being boring.

[Kergan]

Do it pussy. :)

p.s. you are mentally retarded

[RIP The Jacka]

Prolly the worst troll ever, might be the first person I put on ignore just for being boring.

Learn2pvp and be quiet. This is a red forum

Should be a requirement to break top 50 before allowed to spam.

[Glenzig]

So if variance is implemented, after Azrael fails to gain any additional pixels what is the next change that will need to be made in order to insure that the guild that only cares about pvp can have pixels?

[MavstabYoudead]

instanced zones obviously...

[heartbrand]

No level limit in Sebs/Fear/Hate/VP!

What part of that are you not getting???

No you can't use lvl 1 trackers for those raid targets, yes they are some of the most sought after raid targets in the game!

Please explain how you will:

A. Be able to track targets in those zones on a red server without PvP'ing.

B. Be able to log out your raid force in 4 different zones simultaneously.

C. Mobilize 70 people in 2-3 mins of a batphone(lmfao you kidding me kid I was Holocaust with batphone 1 week in advance it took an hour on average.)

D. how do you track something, when you're dead?

You do know that track radius increases with skill lvl right? You answer is always but TMO did this, lol guess what buddy TMO didn't have to worry about there trackers dying, you realize that kills your whole argument?

You realize there's no penalty for dying and you can just park a ranger bot at seb and track trak from zone in. It makes no dif if your naked bot dies 1000x doing that. Same with CT, same with VP. Only one that could be slightly more annoying to track is Innoruuk.

A guild with 400 members is going to mobilize faster than a guild with 30 people. Not sherrif srs? Also variance isn't +/- 7 days, I don't think you realize that within two weeks most targets are falling within a very specific time window where the guild will be on high alert ready to go.

[Glenzig]

No Heartbrand! On variance all mobs spawn on the same day of the week in the same window! Gosh!!!
And as long as that level 1 gives YT then that counts as more pvp.

[Swyft]

You realize there's no penalty for dying and you can just park a ranger bot at seb and track trak from zone in. It makes no dif if your naked bot dies 1000x doing that. Same with CT, same with VP. Only one that could be slightly more annoying to track is Innoruuk.

A guild with 400 members is going to mobilize faster than a guild with 30 people. Not sherrif srs? Also variance isn't +/- 7 days, I don't think you realize that within two weeks most targets are falling within a very specific time window where the guild will be on high alert ready to go.

I don't think I even need to address this, it's the most retarded thing I've read here so far, it shows a stunning lack of reading comprehension, a pitiful display of blue mentality, and stunning abyssal understanding of game mechanics.

Go back and re-read the thread S-L-O-W-L-Y when you understand what the smart people are saying, respond.

[heartbrand]

You claim to be able to prevent trackers and how difficult and onerous it will be and how it will lead to great pvp. Within one sentence I explained away your claim of how tracking will be difficult. Variance does not mean any mob can pop at any given moment. I don't think you understand how variance works, though to be fair, I don't think you understand how a lot of things work.

[Swyft]

You claim to be able to prevent trackers and how difficult and onerous it will be and how it will lead to great pvp. Within one sentence I explained away your claim of how tracking will be difficult. Variance does not mean any mob can pop at any given moment. I don't think you understand how variance works, though to be fair, I don't think you understand how a lot of things work.

Only makes sense if you pretend other guilds dont have an army of alts in every lvl range to murder your trackers before they get near track range.

I know you are too dumb to understand even the simple shit like that track radius relies on the skill lvl of track so your dream of parking lvl ones everywhere wont work.

LOL I was waiting for the dumb cunt who felt the need to explain how variance isn't totally random lmfao. Of course it was you!It's varied! not random lol the word literally describes how it works everyone else knew this was common sense, but thanks for telling us some shit we know like my 8th grade niece trying to sound smart.

[RIP The Jacka]

No yt on my lvl 9 wizard bound in every raid zone.

Suckers

[RIP The Jacka]

I'll bind him on top of dragon spawn point so he can chaain die. Fuck reading track window LOL get owned

[heartbrand]

Who said anything about level 1 trackers? I can park a level 60 tracker at seb. You can track Trakanon from zone in. It takes two seconds to do that. Grats YT on the naked ranger bot. I can do that in fear also. In vp. God you are dumb.

[krazyGlue]

Who said anything about level 1 trackers? I can park a level 60 tracker at seb. You can track Trakanon from zone in. It takes two seconds to do that. Grats YT on the naked ranger bot. I can do that in fear also. In vp. God you are dumb.

Have fun running that ranger back to seb every time .

[daasgoot]

Who said anything about level 1 trackers? I can park a level 60 tracker at seb. You can track Trakanon from zone in. It takes two seconds to do that. Grats YT on the naked ranger bot. I can do that in fear also. In vp. God you are dumb.

it's like you guys have written a book titled "how to avoid pvp" which is required reading when joining holocaust.

alway's thinking of ways you can get pixels while avoiding the pvp aspect of this server all together.

coooooooool. how do i join holo?

[heartbrand]

Have fun running that ranger back to seb every time .

can bind @ seb orb using bind + rez trick

[heartbrand]

or if ur 2 lazy for that can just park a pve corpse there and rez in repeatedly. tracking is not hard, especially since there will only be 1-2 targets within window at the same time.

[Swyft]

Who said anything about level 1 trackers? I can park a level 60 tracker at seb. You can track Trakanon from zone in. It takes two seconds to do that. Grats YT on the naked ranger bot. I can do that in fear also. In vp. God you are dumb.

Oh yea? Ask Quiet how much he saw the entire fight with me.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

I'll have you blind and dead before you can even click track, you can't stand dying bluebie if you could you would risk pvping without 80 people, which you don't. Kinda like the time you screamed for help on your twitch and thru a tantrum from a 52 wizard killing your lvl 60 BIS warior in Overthere LMFAO. Red's are willing to risk a death, blues aren't.

[krazyGlue]

or if ur 2 lazy for that can just park a pve corpse there and rez in repeatedly. tracking is not hard, especially since there will only be 1-2 targets within window at the same time.

That sounds great , if there is no one in the zone . You can expect a pvp squad there waiting and I'm sure holo will come with their own team. Causing pvp to break out waay before the mob even spawns

[heartbrand]

Oh yea? Ask Quiet how much he saw the entire fight with me.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

I'll have you blind and dead before you can even click track, you can't stand dying bluebie if you could you would risk pvping without 80 people, which you don't. Kinda like the time you screamed for help on your twitch and thru a tantrum from a 52 wizard killing your lvl 60 BIS warior in Overthere LMFAO. Red's are willing to risk a death, blues aren't.

is that the same fight where I texted you? u r a dum fat psycopath unemployed nerd

[krazyGlue]

Variance is a good/bad thing imo . It hurts the Zerg/winning team and it helps the underdog/ less numbered team . It will cause more pvp but it will greif those bluebies off the box

[Swyft]

That sounds great , if there is no one in the zone . You can expect a pvp squad there waiting and I'm sure holo will come with their own team. Causing pvp to break out waay before the mob even spawns

Yea because it's not like we don't hold sebs every day besides raid day or anything LOL!

[Tameth]

it's like you guys have written a book titled "how to avoid pvp" which is required reading when joining holocaust.

alway's thinking of ways you can get pixels while avoiding the pvp aspect of this server all together.

coooooooool. how do i join holo?

Gooooooooooooooooot! :p

[heartbrand]

So basically Azrael's argument is it won't be possible to track a mob from the zone in because they will have 20 toons camped there for 24 hours a day. These are the same people who can't get enough people to slay even uncontested mobs.


dum fat unemployed

[daasgoot]

Gooooooooooooooooot! :p

:D

[Colgate]

we have hundreds of more people that we can assign to tracking duty than you do

there is really no angle at which variance helps smaller guilds

[Swyft]

is that the same fight where I texted you? u r a dum fat psycopath unemployed nerd

You sound mad?

LOL bringing a grown man to tears publicly on his own twitch sooooo goog.

[Kergan]

You guys act like anyone but possibly the confirmed retard Syft believe this will lead to them getting mobs or PVP happening.

They just want to grief Holo and other raiding guilds, and make the server shittier for 80% of the people who play on it.

[krazyGlue]

we have hundreds of more people that we can assign to tracking duty than you do

there is really no angle at which variance helps smaller guilds

Then why are you so much against it ?

[Doors]

Because variance is anti PVP which is not what Holocaust or this server is about.

[krazyGlue]

So basically Azrael's argument is it won't be possible to track a mob from the zone in because they will have 20 toons camped there for 24 hours a day. These are the same people who can't get enough people to slay even uncontested mobs.


dum fat unemployed

Like you said mobs don't spawn at any given point . There will be a window which everyone will know and I'm sure both guilds wil be prepared and on standby

[Colgate]

Because variance is anti PVP which is not what Holocaust or this server is about.

[Swyft]

we have hundreds of more people that we can assign to tracking duty than you do

there is really no angle at which variance helps smaller guilds

There is really no angle that doing what we've done for 3 years could be any worse than something new.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/syft13/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/syft13/media/Quiet_zpsbbk7gold.png.html)

These are the kind of players you deem worthy of windstrikers, lol not impressed! Bring um!

And no we actually have more rangers than you, NEXT!

[Kergan]

Variance was added to blue because they wanted to give everyone an equal chance to get raid targets.

That mechanic already exists here - PVP. Just because Azrael has consistently been a terrible guild that can't contest a superior enemy doesn't mean the server rules will get changed to accommodate your poor leadership. :)

get rekt

[krazyGlue]

Variance was added to blue because they wanted to give everyone an equal chance to get raid targets.

That mechanic already exists here - PVP. Just because Azrael has consistently been a smaller guild that can't contest a zerg enemy doesn't mean the server rules will get changed to accommodate your poor leadership. :)

get rekt

Ftfy

[Kergan]

There is really no angle that doing what we've done for 3 years could be any worse than something new.


So what you are saying is Azrael should stop being a shitty guild and doing the same stupid and shitty things they've done for 3 years, so they can actually have a chance at getting raid targets when someone opposes them?

I guess we are in agreement.

p.s. what kind of blubie pussy cries to the GMs to change the rules when they can't win with PVP lolololol

[heartbrand]

Like you said mobs don't spawn at any given point . There will be a window which everyone will know and I'm sure both guilds wil be prepared and on standby

i dunno if u r aware, but there is a mechanic already in place that allows all guilds to know and be prepared. it's called static spawns.

[Nirgon]

You are just asking for a burn out mechanic and hoping it hurts us more than it hurts you

[Kergan]

I wish these blubie fucks whining to the staff to change the rules so they can get loot would just go back to blue.

Fucking blubies.

[Swyft]

Sorry Kergan but after careful deliberation I was forced to put you on ignore, it's not anything you did. Just the recent influx of new Holocaust to the boards was making it too taxing for me to reply to 100 zerglings all parroting the same shit.

I was forced to determine which members of Holocaust were the least important of an opinion and since the new players have yet to established their non factordom and you've had 3 years of doing absolutely nothing on this box. It was clear you were the most likely choice to get rid off.

[krazyGlue]

i dunno if u r aware, but there is a mechanic already in place that allows all guilds to know and be prepared. it's called static spawns.

Static spawns only allows for the zerg to be prepared weeks if not months in advanced and it basicly turns into a numbers game . Azrael fields 30 . Holo will field 70 it's a never ending up hill battle . But if variance is in place I can guarantee you not all 70 will answer that bat phone . And I'm sure we won't field 30 but before that bat phone. Goes off there will be tons of pvp over tracking that mob and the best team that can hold the zone for that said tracker will get the jump have a chance at getting the target . Even if they are fielding smaller numbers

[Kergan]

Sorry Kergan but after careful deliberation I was forced to put you on ignore, it's not anything you did. Just the recent influx of new Holocaust to the boards was making it too taxing for me to reply to 100 zerglings all parroting the same shit.

I was forced to determine which members of Holocaust were the least important of an opinion and since the new players have yet to established their non factordom and you've had 3 years of doing absolutely nothing on this box. It was clear you were the most likely choice to get rid off.

It's ok dude I understand. Maybe some day our epic FQ struggle can continue.

[Colgate]

there was a server reset on sunday

azrael got 24 people online after batphoning

holocaust had over 80

you're stupid if you think variance will help your guild out at all

[Nirgon]

With all due respect the best thing that can happen for Az is too much spawns at once or more than one thing is up at the same time as far as raid targets

Variance will kill that

[Swyft]

You are just asking for a burn out mechanic and hoping it hurts us more than it hurts you

Nope! Only psycho's would wish to raid every single mob on the server every week for years on end, if you can tolerate the boredom of uncontested raids every week I don't think you're getting burned out. Were asking for the solution that causes more pvp, because despite how you play this is a pvp server.

[krazyGlue]

there was a server reset on sunday

azrael got 24 people online after batphoning

holocaust had over 80

you're stupid if you think variance will help your guild out at all

And azrael got more then 3 dragons when on a static spawn we would get maybe 1 due to numbers

[Kergan]

Static spawns only allows for the zerg to be prepared weeks if not months in advanced and it basicly turns into a numbers game . Azrael fields 30 . Holo will field 70 it's a never ending up hill battle . But if variance is in place I can guarantee you not all 70 will answer that bat phone . And I'm sure we won't field 30 but before that bat phone. Goes off there will be tons of pvp over tracking that mob and the best team that can hold the zone for that said tracker will get the jump have a chance at getting the target . Even if they are fielding smaller numbers

lol at this guy being the same dumbfuck that told Holo to recruit and contest when it was 20-25 vs 40 Azrael.

You done got rekt son.

Azrael: 3 years of trying to force people to play exactly how they want and getting their shit pushed in because of it.

[krazyGlue]

lol at this guy being the same dumbfuck that told Holo to recruit and contest when it was 20-25 vs 40 Azrael.

You done got rekt son.

Azrael: 3 years of trying to force people to play exactly how they want and getting their shit pushed in because of it.

azrael never fielded 40 try again

[Colgate]

And azrael got more then 3 dragons when on a static spawn we would get maybe 1 due to numbers

you only got severilous/trakanon because there were other more important targets up at the same time

variance rarely ever gives you more than one raid mob up at the same time

you also only got druushk and xygoz because we left them up instead of killing them at shitty hours which also has nothing to do with a variance system

[Kergan]

Wow, has your brain gone completely to butter? Az has fielded 40 dozens of times.

[Swyft]

you only got severilous/trakanon because there were other more important targets up at the same time

variance rarely ever gives you more than one raid mob up at the same time

you also only got druushk and xygoz because we left them up instead of killing them at shitty hours which also has nothing to do with a variance system

Exactly why we need variance, you will literally try to hold every raid mob in the world with 80 people on static timers. You shouldn't get to choose which raid mobs you do based on sheer numbers that's blue logic.

You should have to fight for which ones you wish to take instead of simply amassing such a large army no one can contest it. If anything has been proven you refuse to fight unless you have 5x the numbers advantage, so splitting your forces is impossible, you'll be forced to let more raid mobs go.

[krazyGlue]

you only got severilous/trakanon because there were other more important targets up at the same time

variance rarely ever gives you more than one raid mob up at the same time

you also only got druushk and xygoz because we left them up instead of killing them at shitty hours which also has nothing to do with a variance system

So with variance mobs will start to over lap due to the windows and it will force both guilds to pick and choose which mob is more important to them . Giving the underdog a fighting chance at getting or even having a chance at winning these mobs will caus a boost in server population being that there is more then more then holocaust as an option . It's a pvp server but people tend to burn out and quit when thaey don't have player progression .

[Colgate]

good luck tracking raid mobs when my guild is able to allocate 10x more trackers than yours is

[Swyft]

azrael never fielded 40 try again

Never seen Azrael field 40 not once, not even close, please provide some screenshot evidence to this outrageous claim or stfu

[krazyGlue]

good luck tracking raid mobs when my guild is able to allocate 10x more trackers than yours is

is that your only argument . ? You know how easy it is to bard kite an entire group of rangers not to mention our 6/7 active level 60 rangers