game economy

[azeth]

I'm frustrated that I know for a fact FBSS is worth 10-12k, however I must sell it for 16k+ as I am a capitalist. We are all aware that; there is a heady abundance of them on p1999, they are perma camped 24/7, and their precedent value is worth no more than 12k.

So, what do I do? Sell it for what I know it's worth (11ish) and take the loss upon myself? My intent would be to start a trend to adjust the inflated price, but one single FBSS sold under current value does not accomplish this.

Shitty situation, I'm not looking to rip anybody off, but I have to..

[azeth]

Once Kunark drops with RBG's and epic haste for a few classes we may see a price adjustment, but regardless Sky has already hit and a lot of folks are gearing up in the 21% class belts. 16-20k for 21% haste just seems wrong.

[Molitoth]

It's basic supply and demand. DA got like 15 Haste belts this weekend, which means a lot of FBSS are hitting the market.

Basically you're going to need to be really patient, or take the loss.

Why is this is R&F?

[Kanor]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read OP

I know you won't understand price equilibrium theory so I will just say an item is worth whatever people pay for it. If everyone is paying 15k, then it is worth 15k.

[Eyry]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read OP

I know you won't understand price equilibrium theory so I will just say an item is worth whatever people pay for it. If everyone is paying 15k, then it is worth 15k.

Relax Kanor,

He is simply bringing attention to the fact that FBSS is overpriced as hell and it should not be the case. He is right in the fact that it is perma-camped and that there is no reason it should be selling so high. The reason they are going so high is because someone is able to control the market (IE: High end guilds) because they are the ones who perma-camp this shit. Not to mention the fact that people are twinking like hell now because everyone is waiting for kunark, which is only making them jack up the price even more. They didn't even sell for that high back on classic.

[Thulghor]

Why is this is R&F?

I think because it's a rant of sort. :-P

From my personal warrior's standpoint, I've noticed quite an increase in the price of "warrior twink" items lately, which goes hand in hand with all the new "warrior twinks" I've been seeing suddenly in the 20-30's leveling bracket. Consequently, I've been seeing a significant increase in the number of level 30 warrior accounts being sold in the "WTS-East Commonlands Tunnel" forums, as well as the actual EC tunnel in game.

Yaks have been going up quite a bit as well. While I was seeing them in the 7-7500 plat range for a while, they're suddenly going up to 9k+ Even today, I saw one guy offer 18k for a pair, and another guy throw out 12k for just one. Little items, like Dwarven Workboots were steadily going for about 350-400. Now I'm seeing a lot of "600 firm" auctions going on. For those that can't afford Yaks, Obsidian shards weren't bad, but they went from 600 per, down to 300 for a bit, now suddenly they're back in the 500-700 range. Other things like Mithril armor pieces and such are also jumping back up in price. Thankfully I was able to quest for most of my crafted armor pieces.

While this isn't a big deal for most people, it does kinda suck for fresh warriors like myself, who just rolled right into the class rather than start out with a soloing class, only to then gear out a twink. Do I regret that decision? Not really. While it does make things more difficult, it is my own decision to live with. I have had a lot of fun thus far.

One thing that does burn my bacon is when I go to tank for a group and everyone there is fully twinked out in 50-100k plat worth of gear. While this in of itself isn't a problem (better gear means that they'll generally perform better, and we'll get more exp) the level of ridicule (why don't you have Yaks + FBSS yet? Lol! Noob!) I get sometimes gets rather old.

Even so, I've only been kicked out of a group due to "gear inadequacies" once in an "exp power farm" Mistmoore group because I was trying to keep threat off of two fully twinked rogues who didn't know how to press the evade key, and a fully kitted out bard who kept telling me to "spam press the taunt key to get more aggro." My experiences since then have been far more pleasant. :-)

Regardless, I figure at the rate I'm going, I'll probably be able to afford an FBSS and two Yaks around the time Velious hits. :-)


TLDR Version: I suck at EQ and should /delete :-P

[a_pet]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read OP

I know you won't understand price equilibrium theory so I will just say an item is worth whatever people pay for it. If everyone is paying 15k, then it is worth 15k.

Thanks, Alan Greenspan.

[Kinamur1999]

They didn't even sell for that high back on classic.

They didn't even sell for this much 3 months ago, they were a solid 10-12k then out of nowhere went to 15, then 17, to 20! and I've even heard of people selling them for as much as 22k.

Seeing them for 15 now is at least reasonable.....

[Tumdumm]

Prices have gone up considerably across the board with a few exceptions. I imagine this is because plat is worth less. There is more of it.

tell that to my cleric, he's still tryin to scrape enough together to buy my next chunk of spells. Of course Im also low level so I should probably just shut up

[Regnon]

hey, you think its bad, im still trying to rap my head around all this crap NOT being twink gear. I remember Yaks, for 500pp, FBSS for 2k or under these prices to me are INSANE. Then I remember....thats the best this server has to offer.....so oh well.

Look at the US and Opec, we pay what they want cause we want what they have...bottom line, if you will Pay 15k , they will sell for 15k. I currently have 4pp to my name, so im not too worried about this stuff yet.

[Hasbinbad]

Thanks, Alan Greenspan.
i lol'd.

[mgellan]

One thing that does burn my bacon is when I go to tank for a group and everyone there is fully twinked out in 50-100k plat worth of gear. While this in of itself isn't a problem (better gear means that they'll generally perform better, and we'll get more exp) the level of ridicule (why don't you have Yaks + FBSS yet? Lol! Noob!) I get sometimes gets rather old.

This is EXACTLY what drove me away from Live, being a warrior without a "Sugar Daddy" and taking all sorts of shit and abuse about my pitiful gear compared to the $100k twinks :( Having these necros/mages turned PLed/twinked tanks give shitty advice on technique made it excruciating :(

Alas, the raider mentality is that somehow the casuals haven't earned anything (something thats been repeated many times on the forum) despite the fact that casuals quest stuff, not buy it, sit in on a guild permacamp, or farm a broken plane every time it pops, and casuals have probably played in almost every zone in the game, not been PLed in the usual progression of ZEM zones. If casuals buy stuff it's because they've done a plat-making quest innumerable times (eg Stein of Moggok run number 14 for me!) or crafted items to raise plat. To me casuals have earned their gear just as much as raiders have... but I don't expect the attitude will change.

Regards,
Mg

[lyyfeleech]

Something is "worth" what someone is willing to pay...period.

[Dominick]

I think because it's a rant of sort. :-P


Its OK.
I was trying to keep threat off of two fully twinked rogues who didn't know how to press the evade key, and a fully kitted out bard who kept telling me to "spam press the taunt key to get more aggro." My experiences since then have been far more pleasant. :-)


I can't stand this.

The rogue is a hard class because everything is skill and timing. Those you can't get with twinks.

How often do you back stab? Not as often as it refreshes, its as often as you can avoid getting aggro off the MT. I used to have a hot key that did a backstab - attack off - evade - attack on. My "I got aggro" key was attack off - evade - /say "I got aggro"

Every rogue should be evading as much as possible. They should never have beg or pickpocket in a macro for a group. How many twinks do you think have either or both mashed?

Most of the time I could BS as much as I wanted. Like now... :-)

[Sizzle]

Warrior was the first toon i rolled here now im 50 in my indi. ive got 2 yaks, some other loot. But i started with nothing. I dont claim to be a trade god and I did very little trading my entire time here. Warriors cant farm for crap either. I did some sol a farming picked up a few items from BNB/royals while i leveled, sold that stuff off but i didnt have an FBSS till well into 50 and I used 2x OB shards through level 50 as well. Never had too hard a time finding groups. I usually had someone throw me on a list and sat near camp waiting for a spot. Not everyone is always going to take the better geared player not everyone sees someone for their gear. Skill > gear.

[Malrubius]

Something is "worth" what someone is willing to pay...period.

Not exactly. I think the OP is implying price-fixing. Which does exist here (it's largely illegal in RL).


If all the gas stations in the country colluded, and agreed to charge $6 a gallon for gas, a LOT of people would still buy the gas.

Does that mean people are "willing" to pay it? Sure, I guess so.

Does that mean it's "worth" that much? It depends on your definition of "worth". But you could easily argue that it is worth it since people still buy it.

Some people would still buy it at $1000 per gallon. Still worth it? Yeah, to those people.


The OP is saying (I think) that, yeah, fbss *IS* worth 15k. But, it is ALSO an artificially inflated price.

It would even be "worth" 50k if they even more effectively cornered the market on fbss and all other comparable items.

Sincerely,
Alan Greenspan

[Fawqueue]

I agree with the OP that the prices lately have taken a steady rise, and are not what we would have previous considered reasonable. I see this a lot in MMOs...unless there is constantly an item for comparison up for auction, the price seems to fluctuate (and usually end up going higher). In most cases, people will realize that the item worth 10k being sold at 15k isn't worth it, and just wait it out. If they did that, the seller would come around and lower his asking price. However, on p99 you have the combination of people with too much time, money, and impatience. So instead of letting the market adjust itself, as soon as there isn't a single FBSS up for sale the first person to say "WTS FBSS 17k" has a good chance of finding that lazy but flush 50 sitting in the tunnel thinking he'd rather just buy it today instead of risk not having it tomorrow.

One item I noticed as getting a little ridiculous was the Braided Cinch Cord. Thing is common as shit and used to be 100-150p. Yesterday, saw multiple sellers trying to get 1-1.5k out of this. Really? When his rare drop is only selling for 800-900?

[Omnimorph]

You're looking at the top end of the server, more and more people get 50, and realise "hey, there's not much to do here at 50... guess i'll twink out a <new class>" and they farm whatever it is they can farm, buy the items they want.

With more and more people doing this, and people being generally lazy and wanting to get their items nao rather than later, they pay over what is considered the "normal" price for items like fbss, and enough of these sales gets the item pegged at that price for everyone.

Sucks for the level 45 warrior who started with nothing and can farm nothing because he can't afford to buy one, and like mentioned the camps are usually tied down constantly.

But hey, that's just the way it goes.

[Eccentricaa]

This is EXACTLY what drove me away from Live, being a warrior without a "Sugar Daddy" and taking all sorts of shit and abuse about my pitiful gear compared to the $100k twinks :( Having these necros/mages turned PLed/twinked tanks give shitty advice on technique made it excruciating :(



My solution is simple. I dont group with twinks, and will tell them why I dont want them in my group. Biggest reason is most twinks are not good players that know their character inside and out. They leveled too fast to have capped skills. They also dont tend to work well as a team, and have personalities that tend to lack any desirable traits.

I didnt come to 1999, to have it easy. If I wanted easy, Id play wow.

I came to 1999 because of the challenges the old world had to offer.

I dont want to be power leveled by some super twink and his box, uumm, i mean friend sitting outside of the group.

[Anaiyah]

I'm frustrated that I know for a fact FBSS is worth 10-12k, however I must sell it for 16k+ as I am a capitalist. We are all aware that; there is a heady abundance of them on p1999, they are perma camped 24/7, and their precedent value is worth no more than 12k.

So, what do I do? Sell it for what I know it's worth (11ish) and take the loss upon myself? My intent would be to start a trend to adjust the inflated price, but one single FBSS sold under current value does not accomplish this.

Shitty situation, I'm not looking to rip anybody off, but I have to..

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2941/morbomove.jpg

[Dominick]

The OP is saying (I think) that, yeah, fbss *IS* worth 15k. But, it is ALSO an artificially inflated price.


The price of an item, and its worth, is decided by how much someone is willing to pay, period. There is no other consideration. If the supply doesn't keep up with demand, the price may soar. If the supply outstrips demand, the price may drop. The price doesn't have to track supply and demand.

Supply and demand may be called a law, but it isn't; it is an economic model. There is a big difference.

[guineapig]

I think what people are trying to say is that the prices (for the FBSS for example) are artificially inflated. In other words the FBSS is as common as some other items that are selling for half as much.

Think of it like diamonds. Diamonds are not nearly as rare as the diamond industry would like us to believe. It just so happens that they control the flow of said diamonds into the market and keep the prices higher than they really should be.

Yes people are willing to pay that much for an FBSS, but if they knew how many were floating around on the server currently (especially the ones not in use) then they would probably start demanding a cheaper price.

[guineapig]

The price of an item, and its worth, is decided by how much someone is willing to pay, period.

I do agree with this by the way, just trying to give the opposing perspective on why people are currently willing to pay what they are.

[Anaiyah]

I think what people are trying to say is that the prices (for the FBSS for example) are artificially inflated. In other words the FBSS is as common as some other items that are selling for half as much.

Think of it like diamonds. Diamonds are not nearly as rare as the diamond industry would like us to believe. It just so happens that they control the flow of said diamonds into the market and keep the prices higher than they really should be.

Yes people are willing to pay that much for an FBSS, but if they knew how many were floating around on the server currently (especially the ones not in use) then they would probably start demanding a cheaper price.

Again, artificial inflation is not a real entity. What objective scale are you using to say that an FBSS is COMPLETELY equal to another item selling for half as much? If your sole basis is simply that it drops as commonly, that is ignoring almost every aspect of what makes an item valuable in this game.

[Pheer]

Do you guys really think theres just shitloads of unused FBSSes being sat on by some kind of illuminati of level 50s that are controlling the market? When theres people who have said theyve camped frenzy for 50 hours straight with no fbss drop?

When I tried to sell mine there was plenty of people trying to buy it from me for 10k or less because their friend told them "theyre worth less because sky is out" As if every 50 on the server would have instantly gotten a sky belt.

[Molitoth]

Last week when I was trying to buy an FBSS, there was one being auctioned for 17k. This was the only one I saw sitting in EC tunnel for 2 days.

Eventually I bought it.

Last night while trying to sell my FBSS.... there was 3 others for sale at the exact same time. Thus I had to lower my price to 14k because I did not have the patience to hold out. (I needed cash because I was broke)


It's really quite simple how this works.

The more of them to hit the market, the cheaper they get.

You could wait again until next week, and the price could jump back up to 17k... it all just depends on how many are available at the time.

[Humerox]

There's one very important factor people are forgetting.

Resellers.

There are quite a number of resellers in EC, and they essentially control the market. They have the cash to scoop up hi-end items and hold them. There are a lot of ways to play the market, especially with a limited supply of higher valued items, and a few players with a large amount of of plat.

That's not going to change anytime soon...especially with more and more players reaching 50 and twinking out. That generally is one of the largest driving factors for big price increases in particular items...that can be seen just in this thread, it's not rocket science.

The people that lose are the poor souls that are just finding the server. It was the same way on live, people just don't seem to remember. Hell, I remember player trader guilds that would corner the market on whatever they wanted to. The only thing that can be done to alleviate some of this particular problem is to increase drop rate significantly...but that raises just as much of a problem for the server as this does.

On the other hand, when Kunark comes out, it will be much more difficult to corner and control the market. Not impossible, just a lot more difficult.

[Nansmanden]

http://www.billedeupload.dk/upload/files/2010-09/9905ccec.jpg

[Enderenter]

There's one very important factor people are forgetting.

Resellers.

There are quite a number of resellers in EC, and they essentially control the market. They have the cash to scoop up hi-end items and hold them. There are a lot of ways to play the market, especially with a limited supply of higher valued items, and a few players with a large amount of of plat.

That's not going to change anytime soon...especially with more and more players reaching 50 and twinking out. That generally is one of the largest driving factors for big price increases in particular items...that can be seen just in this thread, it's not rocket science.

The people that lose are the poor souls that are just finding the server. It was the same way on live, people just don't seem to remember. Hell, I remember player trader guilds that would corner the market on whatever they wanted to. The only thing that can be done to alleviate some of this particular problem is to increase drop rate significantly...but that raises just as much of a problem for the server as this does.

On the other hand, when Kunark comes out, it will be much more difficult to corner and control the market. Not impossible, just a lot more difficult.

I've never had a problem, either here or on live, buying an item for the price I am willing to pay, nor have I had a problem selling it for at least that amount. I think ultimately if you are willing to take your time in finding the price you want to pay (and aren't a lowballer) you will find it. And it really doesn't take that long.

[zianlo1]

I dunno bout you guys, but I haggle with people =P Someone shouting 1p per ac on banded Im like hey, will you take 6g per instead? Usually gets me what I want, and cheaper than the asking price....I got chest, legs and cloak of banded for 25p...which is like 7g per ac, instead of the 1p the person was asking for. saved myself 5p there, go me! =P

Haggling ftw, EC is just a virtual flea market, work it like that and you wont pay much more than you want to.

[OngorDrakan]

I think it's kind of sad somebody farms that as much as they do. Get a life, you don't have it.

[Harrison]

I have a life and I still have more than you probably ever will in the game?

Explanation? I'm better than you.

"not having a life" has nothing to do with people being better than you.

[sidgb]

If everyone refused to buy an FBSS at current prices, the price would drop.

Start a revolution. Refuse to buy it.

But I am willing to bet none of you would ever sell one at what you consider a fair buying price if it that price were well below current market. At least to a stranger that is.

[Dantes]

I just guilt people into giving me lower prices :p

[Troy]

Prices have already dropped considerably in the past couple of weeks. I paid 18k for my FBSS after sitting for a few days trying to find one. I just bought another one for 14k yesterday and threw it on my lvl 1 enchanter to melee things faster until my spells get better (and to lower my average cost for FBSS's =/ ... with my luck however they'll be going for 8k by the weekend).

[Noleafclover]

The rogue is a hard class

It's fine to say that rogues are fun 'cause they're big damage, maybe that corpse dragging is somewhat challenging, but to say they're a hard class because you have to make an evade hotkey, hit it, and avoid hitting pickpocket, is LOL.

Rogues are easy as shit unless you're dragging corpses.

[Noleafclover]

As for FBSS, it's simply supply and demand. They've been going up 'cause well, for one thing, anecdotally, they're dropping less - and for another - more people have money and twinks these days, and every melee twink needs one.

It went down because everyone in the top guilds was upgrading to sky belts and selling theirs.

It'll go back up soon, and then back up more in kunark - and even out around 20k once people start frequently getting the kunark haste items. Mark it.

[yt2005]

Some related reading:

Some aspects of the theory of inflation in a closed economy (http://www.jstor.org/pss/2226486)

The theory of optimum population for a closed economy (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1826904)

You'll need JSTOR access.

We should continue this discussion once everybody has read those articles.

[Harrison]

As for FBSS, it's simply supply and demand. They've been going up 'cause well, for one thing, anecdotally, they're dropping less - and for another - more people have money and twinks these days, and every melee twink needs one.

It went down because everyone in the top guilds was upgrading to sky belts and selling theirs.

It'll go back up soon, and then back up more in kunark - and even out around 20k once people start frequently getting the kunark haste items. Mark it.

20k? Lol no.

[Maurk]

The market works well for me by taking the following steps:

Douchebag auctions: WTS FBSS 17k

so you make an alt character and then

you auction: WTS FBSS 15k
(dont respond to any offers)

then as the other fbss goes down in price, log onto your main and buy that shit.

then you may laugh how u pwnz0rd the sux0r noob

[Skope]

On prexus after kunark they were going for around 5-8k. Sash of the dragonborn wasn't difficult to attain and by then sky belts became much more attainable. Throw in more dragons and nearly every haste item in price considerably.

[Skope]

dropped. every haste item dropped in price considerably!

[Ponden]

The rogue is a hard class because everything is skill and timing. Those you can't get with twinks.:-)

What? Lol

[Blancah]

The market works well for me by taking the following steps:

Douchebag auctions: WTS FBSS 17k

so you make an alt character and then

you auction: WTS FBSS 15k
(dont respond to any offers)

then as the other fbss goes down in price, log onto your main and buy that shit.

then you may laugh how u pwnz0rd the sux0r noob


this.

[Humerox]

this.

One of the oldest reseller tricks in the book too. Make your competition lower the asking price, then snap it up to resell.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Some related reading:

Some aspects of the theory of inflation in a closed economy (http://www.jstor.org/pss/2226486)

The theory of optimum population for a closed economy (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1826904)

You'll need JSTOR access.

We should continue this discussion once everybody has read those articles.

Whoa, JSTOR is really outstanding. I have access through the local public library. Thanks very much for pointing out this amazing resource. I'm even going to read your economics articles, now.

[Hasbinbad]

It's fine to say that rogues are fun 'cause they're big damage, maybe that corpse dragging is somewhat challenging, but to say they're a hard class because you have to make an evade hotkey, hit it, and avoid hitting pickpocket, is LOL.

Rogues are easy as shit unless you're dragging corpses.
Dragging corpses is easy as shit.

Anyone who says rogues are button mashers aren't very good rogues tho. There's a lot of busy work positioning, especially on this server, where idiot tanks and other melee who often take aggro can't seem to get it through their thick fucking skulls to stay on one side of the fucking mob.

..not saying it's HARD, just busy. Slackers make horrible rogues.

[Pheer]

Dragging corpses is easy as shit.

Anyone who says rogues are button mashers aren't very good rogues tho. There's a lot of busy work positioning, especially on this server, where idiot tanks and other melee who often take aggro can't seem to get it through their thick fucking skulls to stay on one side of the fucking mob.

..not saying it's HARD, just busy. Slackers make horrible rogues.

sounds like life in DA was rough man

[Ronas]

You would think the pricing would drop below 10k now since sky open and some guild willing to summon you and port you up there to loot haste item with stats for 10K? I guess you all right with the twink thing, dont think anyone over lvl 46 would buy these fbss tho, but on the other hand alot of new people that dont know or bother to research before getting items. Poor bastards. :confused:

[Absentia]

If your guild is selling PoSky belts, maybe they should put that energy into getting passed Island 4.

[Hasbinbad]

sounds like life in DA was rough man
I dunno if shit has changed in IB, but it was just as bad there way back when lol..

..but yeah..

[Ronas]

If your guild is selling PoSky belts, maybe they should put that energy into getting passed Island 4.

If your guild? hehe, i dont know what you talking about here but seen the sky item for sale a while back, just letting the community know theres other options besides the FBSS and why i think it should be lowered. But apart from what i was saying earlier, if you are 46+ most likely can try to get the dragon haste item as well. Kunark they say in 6 month, but might be even longer then this.

WTB MORE TWINKS.

[druziil]

in my opinion the econ problems are due to the available amounts of platinum, not as much about supply and demand

[RKromwell]

TLDR Version: I suck at EQ and should /delete :-P


Nooooo!

[Bashee_Feind]

If your guild? hehe, i dont know what you talking about here but seen the sky item for sale a while back, just letting the community know theres other options besides the FBSS and why i think it should be lowered. But apart from what i was saying earlier, if you are 46+ most likely can try to get the dragon haste item as well. Kunark they say in 6 month, but might be even longer then this.

WTB MORE TWINKS.

You can't put a sky belt on a character below 46 >< So FBSS still stands firm for anyone below 46, and alot of those are going to be twinks. Whether by their own means, or means of friends, they'll keep rolling in.

WTS Fbss 18k pst

[Dantes]

in my opinion the econ problems are due to the available amounts of platinum, not as much about supply and demand

This is true. With nothing better to do, and better knowledge of good farming spots, everyone is making more plat. Still, the idea of saving up 15k for anything sounds time consuming and boring as a Warrior. But unfortunately with the way camps locked down that may be the only option.

[Absentia]

Why do you feel you have to buy anything as a Warrior? Just hit lvl 46 and start doing runs in the Planes for your gear.

[Raavak]

In classic the group cleric got most the gem drops to pay for peridots. With all the solo/duo farming those gems are turning into fat wallets in EC.

[Absentia]

I don't remember that ever happening, but I could be wrong!

[Seeatee]

the thing that sucks the worst is the only ones who can afford half the shit worth owning are the ones who farm everything and sell it for crazy high amounts to get rich, its a vicious spiral, and its only going to get worse when kunark comes out, all these people who have all these high end camps on lock down selling everything for crazy high amounts hoarding all the plat, will do the same thing in kunark, then other rich people will pay their crazy inflated prices, and it will continue to get out of control.

I remember a few weeks ago trying to buy a torch for my mage's focus item, offering up 300 plat for it, which IMO is on the high side for that item, I must have had 4 different people tell me no, they are holding out for 500+ because they know they can get that from a level 50 twinking an alt.

its pretty discouraging that if you want a fbss, you almost have to wait for the level 50 soloing the camp to get one then pay 15k+ for it, instead of being able to bring in a group, have some fun, get some exp, and get the item you need.

we should rename P1999 the farm server, either your farming all the high end gear to sell at inflated prices , or spending your life farming plat to buy said inflated high end gear.

:mad:

[Seaweedpimp]

I don't remember that ever happening, but I could be wrong!

You are.

[Dantes]

Why do you feel you have to buy anything as a Warrior? Just hit lvl 46 and start doing runs in the Planes for your gear.

Yeah, you're right. I'll just go to the planes naked with a rusty short sword. People will love me. Who needs gear?

its pretty discouraging that if you want a fbss, you almost have to wait for the level 50 soloing the camp to get one then pay 15k+ for it, instead of being able to bring in a group, have some fun, get some exp, and get the item you need.

That's how I got mine during live. Camped for it, in a full group. It took a long time, and some of my friends in the group were kind enough to give it up to me if they won the roll.

[Eyry]

Yeah, you're right. I'll just go to the planes naked with a rusty short sword. People will love me. Who needs gear?



That's how I got mine during live. Camped for it, in a full group. It took a long time, and some of my friends in the group were kind enough to give it up to me if they won the roll.

Good luck finding the camp open on this server...

[quellren]

Good luck finding the camp open on this server...

And once you realize that 99.5% of the time its solo/duo camped, it speaks volumes about both the economy and mentality of the players on this server.

I'm pretty discouraged with going to a dungeon (say, Unrest) and seeing a lvl 40-50 solo camping the Undead Knight or Rucksif.
Seriously? You don't have better things to do than camp a low-mid level mob?
And then selling the BS Tunic for 500p is a real dick move when there are literally 3 yard-trash groups begging for a new camp spot.

[Regnon]

the best part about the economy is this.....if you don't buy their shit, they have no reason to keep camping it....so people....stop buying twink stuff and the economy will change and camps will open up for right leveled players. Its when you FEED THEIR GREED is when shit breaks down.

See, you dont NEED a FBSS at lvl 20 or whatever but you WANT one. so you do what you have to do to get one, if people wernt so dam greedy and want to do everything the easy way. This would not be a problem.....

[Absentia]

I've seen plenty of warriors ding level 50 in their quested crafted gear with shit weapons and no haste. Why can't you do it?

[Harrison]

I've seen plenty of warriors ding level 50 in their quested crafted gear with shit weapons and no haste. Why can't you do it?

We don't suck lol

[yt2005]

the best part about the economy is this.....if you don't buy their shit, they have no reason to keep camping it....so people....stop buying twink stuff and the economy will change and camps will open up for right leveled players. Its when you FEED THEIR GREED is when shit breaks down.

See, you dont NEED a FBSS at lvl 20 or whatever but you WANT one. so you do what you have to do to get one, if people wernt so dam greedy and want to do everything the easy way. This would not be a problem.....

Yes, let's all go boycott the people who sell stuff for too much.

Oh wait, I forgot... the sellers don't care, because they weren't targeting you in the first place, they were targeting the people who have enough plat to not have to worry about this stuff.

And honestly, how long do you think the average person could keep up the sacrifice? I would guess that as soon as the seller drops the asking price, the person will jump and buy it, even if it's still above what you would consider "fair".

This is a free market based on a "platinum" standard. The catch is that there is an infinite amount of platinum in Norrath, and that platinum is far, far more accessible to and more easily accrued by higher-level players than lower-level players. Those high-level characters (and their twinks) are the ones who have control of the market, which makes sense given how the EQ economy works. It's part of the game. The fact that the prices are higher here than on Live isn't a function of how the economy works on this server. Perhaps there is a higher percentage of players with maxed-level accounts, but there isn't anything wrong with that.

Solo farming happens to be the most efficient way to gain platinum and items. Many people choose to use that method of farming as their primary style of play. Decry them as losers with no life if you want, you have every right to your opinion, but it's the way they choose to enjoy the game, as is their right.

tl;dr: QQ moar

[HippoNipple]

All of the platinum should be collected by the GMs and then equally distributed to all EQ players, regardless of how much time the player spent getting that platinum. It doesn't matter if you put 1 or 20 days playing time in, you should get an equal amount of platinum.

Then there should be set prices for items farmed and when you farm them they are auto sold without you having the choice if you cannot equip the item. You just receive the set amount of pp for that item.

My next idea is to not allow players to choose their class anymore. When you log into the server for the first time a name will be given to you, and your race/class will be chosen for you. The race/class combo will be what benefits the server most. Once you reach level 50 you will be given another slot which will then have another class/race chosen for you.

[Regnon]

All of the platinum should be collected by the GMs and then equally distributed to all EQ players, regardless of how much time the player spent getting that platinum. It doesn't matter if you put 1 or 20 days playing time in, you should get an equal amount of platinum.

Then there should be set prices for items farmed and when you farm them they are auto sold without you having the choice if you cannot equip the item. You just receive the set amount of pp for that item.

My next idea is to not allow players to choose their class anymore. When you log into the server for the first time a name will be given to you, and your race/class will be chosen for you. The race/class combo will be what benefits the server most. Once you reach level 50 you will be given another slot which will then have another class/race chosen for you.

Can we all call each other Comrad???

[guineapig]

I've seen plenty of warriors ding level 50 in their quested crafted gear with shit weapons and no haste. Why can't you do it?

This.

When I make an alt I either start them off naked (if a caster), or just grab the first thing I can find for each slot until the character is fully clothed and level.

I can't imagine paying top dollar for any classic gear. The resale values will plummet on all but a couple items once Kunark is out and every single one of those items will be replaced by something else.

To each his own though. For some people trying to be better geared than everyone else is important.

[Ronas]

This.

When I make an alt I either start them off naked (if a caster), or just grab the first thing I can find for each slot until the character is fully clothed and level.

I can't imagine paying top dollar for any classic gear. The resale values will plummet on all but a couple items once Kunark is out and every single one of those items will be replaced by something else.

To each his own though. For some people trying to be better geared than everyone else is important.

I dont know, i assume your bard was the alt, and the enc was used to farm the crap out of grobb prenerf for pp to get the bard full of lambent/mithril.

That way the bard would become more versitile, it can tank/dps/mez/buff. But with zero gear it can like selo, thats it.

[Harrison]

This.

When I make an alt I either start them off naked (if a caster), or just grab the first thing I can find for each slot until the character is fully clothed and level.

I can't imagine paying top dollar for any classic gear. The resale values will plummet on all but a couple items once Kunark is out and every single one of those items will be replaced by something else.

To each his own though. For some people trying to be better geared than everyone else is important.

Or, some people like to be better geared to *gasp* be better at their class?

[RKromwell]

EQ is gear dependent, we all know that. Problem is that with the prices on this server, if you are not on your third character with two level 50's on the shelf waiting for RoK, it is a bit tough.

[fastboy21]

There are a few problems that cause this...if you consider them problems.

(though i can not prove it) i suspect that there is MUCH more plat per person on this server than there was on live at the same time. there are plenty of reasons for this, but the reasons don't matter. the effect of more plat being "in circulation" is inflation just like irl.

the items that suffer the most from this inflation are the ones in highest demand. the fbss is one of the best examples. it is a rare drop, at a single camp, and due to EQ mechanics is pretty much a required item (i.e. melee classes without an fbss or better are significantly less powerful). the result is that demand for fbss is very high, and supply is not. combine that with the general inflation on the server and you will see the price go up more than most other items.

the bottom line is that things are only worth what someone will pay for them. currently, you CAN sell an fbss for 22k if you are willing to wait a few days to find a buyer. most people are, so they do. the only reason to sell it for less is if you need the pp faster.

the camp btw is not trivially easy. i have personally spent two 30-hour sessions at the fbss camp in lguk. I have gotten 1 fbss that whole time. Luck is always a variable, but at 60 hours to make 15k I may as well have been farming HGs. My point is that it seems like some folks make it sound like an fbss is dropping every hour at the camp...if this were true the price would come down, but the item is much rarer than that, and the camp is easily monopolized by a single person. with the rate it drops and the number of people who need it (basicly every melee that doesn't have better) you are in a hell of a seller's market.

[Noleafclover]

All of the platinum should be collected by the GMs and then equally distributed to all EQ players, regardless of how much time the player spent getting that platinum. It doesn't matter if you put 1 or 20 days playing time in, you should get an equal amount of platinum.

Then there should be set prices for items farmed and when you farm them they are auto sold without you having the choice if you cannot equip the item. You just receive the set amount of pp for that item.

My next idea is to not allow players to choose their class anymore. When you log into the server for the first time a name will be given to you, and your race/class will be chosen for you. The race/class combo will be what benefits the server most. Once you reach level 50 you will be given another slot which will then have another class/race chosen for you.

I lol'd. And then when someone thought you were serious, I lol'd again. And then this made me want to play Settlers of Qatan for some reason.

But yeah, great imitation of what people in this thread sound like.

To sum up, people shouldn't progress in an MMO in terms of wealth and power, everything should be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa air.

[Bleepblurp]

The simple solution to all this is to just not buy stuff that costs obnoxious amounts of PP. This is an emulated server that's only going to last for who knows how much longer (probably 1 out of 3 players will likely vanish when Cataclysm is released for example) so why stress yourself over anything? Just play with your friends, get whatever items you can and have a good time. If you happen to have alot of PP go buy an item. It doesn't really matter. You won't be investing in these characters for multiple years like you did back on live. You can still improve your character and play well while you're here without an FBSS if paying 15k for an item bothers you. I know it's ideal to have one, but if it's out of reach now just wait it out because eventually (I guess) more haste options will become available.

[Seeatee]

see, the prices being so high wouldn't be much of a problem if there was an alternative, if we have the spare cash and are making a twink, sure go ahead and pay 5k for an item thats worth 2, but if its your first toon take a group and go camp it, only it is nigh impossible to do so, buying it is the ONLY option.

example, I have been hunting in mistmoore castle all week, there has not been one second I have been in that zone where the dhampyre was not camped by some level 50 farming it to sell the cloak, which means I only have one option to get that item, and that is farm my ass off to get 4k to buy it, I do not have the option of taking a group there, putting in the time and effort to camp that item.

this IMO is where the problem arises.

a fix for the problem would be ( and I'm just thinking out loud here so don't jump down my throat too bad ) maybe on Tuesdays only GROUPS can camp certain rares, no solo players allowed to camp those mobs on that day, this would at least give regular folks a small window where they might be able to acquire it.

[Bodeanicus]

Or, some people like to be better geared to *gasp* be better at their class?

Or some people *gasp* embellish about their real life career choices to sound more important than they really are?

You know, the reason I give you so much shit is because the very first fucking day I started on this server back in November of last year there you were, talking condescending, belittling shit in global /ooc like you were the EQ fucking master. Then the lying about being a combat vet came to light, and it all makes sense. You're an insecure, narcissistic little child who creates a tough guy persona to compensate. And most likely a pathological liar. You should really just shut the fuck up. Every time you post here, it's all the more obvious what a pathetic little sack of shit you really are. But then again, this is probably the only social interaction a poser like you can get.

[korrowan]

The simple solution to all this is to just not buy stuff that costs obnoxious amounts of PP. This is an emulated server that's only going to last for who knows how much longer (probably 1 out of 3 players will likely vanish when Cataclysm is released for example) so why stress yourself over anything? Just play with your friends, get whatever items you can and have a good time. If you happen to have alot of PP go buy an item. It doesn't really matter. You won't be investing in these characters for multiple years like you did back on live. You can still improve your character and play well while you're here without an FBSS if paying 15k for an item bothers you. I know it's ideal to have one, but if it's out of reach now just wait it out because eventually (I guess) more haste options will become available.

Lol WoW lol.

[Dantes]

I've seen plenty of warriors ding level 50 in their quested crafted gear with shit weapons and no haste. Why can't you do it?

That takes all the fun out of it. I'm a gear whore. That's part of the reason I choose the most gear dependent class. The better the gear, the better the Warrior. That's all we have.

Let's say you had an extra spot for a tank on your raid. Would you invite the Warrior with shitty weapons and no haste? Or would you invite the Warrior with Yaks and an FBSS? I'd rather have the right gear to do the job right, I don't want to be a burden.

[Messianic]

see, the prices being so high wouldn't be much of a problem if there was an alternative, if we have the spare cash and are making a twink, sure go ahead and pay 5k for an item thats worth 2, but if its your first toon take a group and go camp it, only it is nigh impossible to do so, buying it is the ONLY option.

example, I have been hunting in mistmoore castle all week, there has not been one second I have been in that zone where the dhampyre was not camped by some level 50 farming it to sell the cloak, which means I only have one option to get that item, and that is farm my ass off to get 4k to buy it, I do not have the option of taking a group there, putting in the time and effort to camp that item.

this IMO is where the problem arises.

I don't see any of that as a problem. People treat solo-camping as an aberration. Sorry, it's not - it's just as valid as group-camping. It sucks for those who are trying to use high-demand camps as Xp/loot camps instead of just loot camps, but it would suck worse for GM's to force (and have to enforce) some kind of no solo camping/no farming policy, as limited as it might be. Often those people solo-camping stuff like that aren't necessarily farming the item to sell. As has already been mentioned, farming FBSSs' or other high-end items that have soloable camps isn't really an incredible way to farm cash.

And farming 4k isn't that huge of a pain. You just need to level more. The money you get from just grouping generally goes up exponentially as you level.

[Eyry]

Or some people *gasp* embellish about their real life career choices to sound more important than they really are?

You know, the reason I give you so much shit is because the very first fucking day I started on this server back in November of last year there you were, talking condescending, belittling shit in global /ooc like you were the EQ fucking master. Then the lying about being a combat vet came to light, and it all makes sense. You're an insecure, narcissistic little child who creates a tough guy persona to compensate. And most likely a pathological liar. You should really just shut the fuck up. Every time you post here, it's all the more obvious what a pathetic little sack of shit you really are. But then again, this is probably the only social interaction a poser like you can get.

http://www.evula.org/dragoon/pics/cat-shock.jpg

Shits been thrown down!

[Bodeanicus]

That takes all the fun out of it. I'm a gear whore. That's part of the reason I choose the most gear dependent class. The better the gear, the better the Warrior. That's all we have.

Let's say you had an extra spot for a tank on your raid. Would you invite the Warrior with shitty weapons and no haste? Or would you invite the Warrior with Yaks and an FBSS? I'd rather have the right gear to do the job right, I don't want to be a burden.

Why group at all? Make a mage, farm a gabillion guards, buy all the shit, then jerk off to your perfectly specced toon strategically parked at the entrance of EC tunnel.

[guineapig]

Or, some people like to be better geared to *gasp* be better at their class?

You sound like the guy that said:
"If you don't care about Manastone, you don't care about being good."

Trust me, gear doesn't make you better at your class. Warrior is the exception to the rule because they need weapons that proc. But the slower your delay the more your weapons proc so an FBSS is usually not a better choice than say something with a lot of AC, HP and/or resists.

I see twinked out characters all the time not knowing what the hell they are doing. Being rich and well geared doesn't mean squat.

[guineapig]

I dont know, i assume your bard was the alt, and the enc was used to farm the crap out of grobb prenerf for pp to get the bard full of lambent/mithril.

That way the bard would become more versitile, it can tank/dps/mez/buff. But with zero gear it can like selo, thats it.

I didn't buy my lambent gear I quested it.
Most of the gear I'm wearing I got while in groups. I LFg in zones where there is gear I need then I move on. The exception being my jewelry which, yes my enchanter made.

I don't understand how a bard with bad gear would be unable to buff and do crowed control, care to explain?

[Dantes]

Why group at all? Make a mage, farm a gabillion guards, buy all the shit, then jerk off to your perfectly specced toon strategically parked at the entrance of EC tunnel.

Meh. I don't have time to be starting sugar daddies to be funding alts.

[PhelanKA]

You sound like the guy that said:
"If you don't care about Manastone, you don't care about being good."

Trust me, gear doesn't make you better at your class. Warrior is the exception to the rule because they need weapons that proc. But the slower your delay the more your weapons proc so an FBSS is usually not a better choice than say something with a lot of AC, HP and/or resists.

I see twinked out characters all the time not knowing what the hell they are doing. Being rich and well geared doesn't mean squat.

You are a ray of sunshine man. I'm serious.

[guineapig]

You are a ray of sunshine man. I'm serious.

Well I've been called worse... so thanks? ;)

[Harrison]

Or some people *gasp* embellish about their real life career choices to sound more important than they really are?

You know, the reason I give you so much shit is because the very first fucking day I started on this server back in November of last year there you were, talking condescending, belittling shit in global /ooc like you were the EQ fucking master. Then the lying about being a combat vet came to light, and it all makes sense. You're an insecure, narcissistic little child who creates a tough guy persona to compensate. And most likely a pathological liar. You should really just shut the fuck up. Every time you post here, it's all the more obvious what a pathetic little sack of shit you really are. But then again, this is probably the only social interaction a poser like you can get.

Lol way to make even MORE shit up. I didn't start playing until December.

You're pathetic old man.

[zianlo1]

It pissed me off when it happened on live, but....Trivial Loot Coding....or w/e it was called back then.

[Harrison]

Firiona Vie's system

[Bubbles]

Firiona Vie's system

Would allow DA to send 30 ppl to Hate and 30 ppl to fear to farm planar armor to re-sell in East Commons.

Very close, but so clearly not the answer.

[Harrison]

Oh, trust me, I hate that system. It's stupid.

I'm just saying it to Zianlo what it was.

[Bodeanicus]

Lol way to make even MORE shit up. I didn't start playing until December.

You're pathetic old man.

Nope, you're lying again, FINAWIN.

[yt2005]

I don't like this "platinum standard" EQ uses. It's a shame that the current system is what is classic, because what we need to do is redo the entire economic system based on something that isn't infinite, something that is constant in quantity, like manastones. We could have a manastone standard. Have the devs code in a box that breaks down manastones into "manastone shards" that do nothing except for being able to recombine into a full manastone. This would be the currency that is used in buying and selling.

Then we need a stock market so we can buy futures and short-sell items.

Can we implement a way for guilds to make an IPO?

[Harrison]

Nope, you're lying again, FINAWIN.

Do I need to load up a screenshot of Finawin's birthday on P99 too just to make you look like even more of a retarded old man than you already are?

You're so dumb it's amazing you haven't accidentally guzzled bleach by now.

[Bodeanicus]

Do I need to load up a screenshot of Finawin's birthday on P99 too just to make you look like even more of a retarded old man than you already are?

You're so dumb it's amazing you haven't accidentally guzzled bleach by now.

I'm supposed to believe your screenshots, when you're proven yourself to be a liar? OK.... :rolleyes:

[zianlo1]

Oh, trust me, I hate that system. It's stupid.

I'm just saying it to Zianlo what it was.

Youre wrong on this one, buddy boy. Firona Vie had almost all no drop tags removed, making it so almost all items were tradeable.

The trivial loot code made it so any mob that was grey to you not drop any loot. And it was applied across all servers, in most zones after the Warrens went live, which was the first zone it was implemented in, iirc.

FV did have tlc, but tlc was only FV rules.

[Harrison]

I know how it works. It wasn't applied across all servers in most zones. That's nonsense.

[PhelanKA]

Dragging corpses is easy as shit.

Anyone who says rogues are button mashers aren't very good rogues tho. There's a lot of busy work positioning, especially on this server, where idiot tanks and other melee who often take aggro can't seem to get it through their thick fucking skulls to stay on one side of the fucking mob.

..not saying it's HARD, just busy. Slackers make horrible rogues.

Agreed.

Even necros are busy. The only class that is truly doing nothing on a regular basis and could be played by a monkey with down syndrome are mages.

IMO.

But then properly played Bards make us all look like lazy fucks.