DA KSes offically now?

[Lulls]

What's all this I hear about DA having loot deleted that they got from an Inny they KSed from Trans?

[Eternal-Elf]

Who gives a shit?

[Tseng]

I care.

[Starklen]

It was official a couple months ago. I'd consider this a rebranding effort of sorts.

[Bodeanicus]

I care.

A lot. It's like, important 'n shit.

[G13]

It was official a couple months ago. I'd consider this a rebranding effort of sorts.

Hey it's an IB troll hypocrite

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE

[Serith]

Yup































































officially*

[Starklen]

Hey it's an IB troll hypocrite

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE

http://www.minti.com/image/d-200-1000/34993/baby%20crying%203.jpg

[Co114p53]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4687/daaap.jpg

[aggresor223]

About time the douchbaggery was seen! oh what a glorious day! fuck you DA just because IB does it doesn't mean you can! :P

[Gorgetrapper]

Well it was known that DA was a bunch of douchebags. This is just concrete evidence.

[Erasong]

Yup































































officially*

Serith, this one made me lol.

[girth]

Hey it's an IB troll hypocrite

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE

Facts are facts
This post was legit
Much respect
:cool:

[Supreme]

Regardless..i have never seen Innoruuk go down THAT fast!

[UncleDread]

DA guild need to just disband and go back to WOw.Bunch of Loser with no skill...And noone even likes them including Gms.Do use a favor and delete accounts.. Bye Bye

[sidgb]

Personally I think it would have been classy to let Transcendance have their poopsock camp. That said, does this mean the raid rules...Specifically..

Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

No longer apply if you are clearing trash?

As for first aggro, only the server logs could have been able to sort out that chain of events so technically Trans had the final chain of aggro even though DA had first aggro. Unless someone can be DTed by Inny without ever having aggro.

Has the poopsock made a comeback?

[Nlaar]

Has the poopsock made a comeback?


This.

[Gorgetrapper]

Personally I think it would have been classy to let Transcendance have their poopsock camp. That said, does this mean the raid rules...Specifically..



No longer apply if you are clearing trash?

As for first aggro, only the server logs could have been able to sort out that chain of events so technically Trans had the final chain of aggro even though DA had first aggro. Unless someone can be DTed by Inny without ever having aggro.

Has the poopsock made a comeback?

So you're saying it's alright to just leapfrog a guild after they did all the work? Good reasoning.

[sidgb]

So you're saying it's alright to just leapfrog a guild after they did all the work? Good reasoning.
Read the first line of my post that you quoted. The rest was just an analysis of events as described.

[Supreme]

Personally I think it would have been classy to let Transcendance have their poopsock camp. That said, does this mean the raid rules...Specifically..



No longer apply if you are clearing trash?

As for first aggro, only the server logs could have been able to sort out that chain of events so technically Trans had the final chain of aggro even though DA had first aggro. Unless someone can be DTed by Inny without ever having aggro.

Has the poopsock made a comeback?

Poopsock.....lulz.

[Uaellaen]

read what rogean wrote ... he sayd innoruuk reset after he was engaged by DA, and then was reengaged by trans ... wich gives them FTE claim ...

[sidgb]

read what rogean wrote ... he sayd innoruuk reset after he was engaged by DA, and then was reengaged by trans ... wich gives them FTE claim ...

Actually he did not say Inny reset. Reset means a mob disengages, goes back to spawn point and regens health. He said the DA player got first aggro and died, at this point DA had lost aggro, Inny went into seek mode and the next to get aggro was a Trans member who maintained continuous aggro until Inny died but DA got the most damage in. He appears to be very careful not to say reset. Looks like a FFA that Trans won. For all we know Inny was racing all over and ping ponging around. Hardly a reset.

I am sure the Trans and DA people can give us play by play.

[sidgb]

Actually, I am more interested in this concept where clearing the trash gives you claim to the boss and anyone showing up later is not playing nice. That seems to be new.

[Supreme]

Actually, I am more interested in this concept where clearing the trash gives you claim to the boss and anyone showing up later is not playing nice. That seems to be new.

What is it you want to hear? Clearly you are looking for some kind of fight or some kind of arguing point to justify DA.

Trans was there. DA ported up later and while we were on the second floor waiting for Inny they decided to try and leap us to Inny.

We got the Fraps/SS of the entire event, gave Rogean the proof and he ruled accordingly.

[Trimm]

I'm not taking either side, but am wondering if Inno was spawned already when Trans cleared to the second floor? To me, it sounds like Trans cleared and sat in Inno's room and started to wait, then DA showed up and sat next to them, then Inno spawned once both raids were sitting there? I'm just curious as to how this went down is all.

[sidgb]

What is it you want to hear? Clearly you are looking for some kind of fight or some kind of arguing point to justify DA.

Trans was there. DA ported up later and while we were on the second floor waiting for Inny they decided to try and leap us to Inny.

We got the Fraps/SS of the entire event, gave Rogean the proof and he ruled accordingly.

Heck Supreme, I thought I was in the R&F forum. Guess I was mistaken. Might want to take on the OP then as I am guessing he's a Trans fan and started the whole thead.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

Actually, I am more interested in this concept where clearing the trash gives you claim to the boss and anyone showing up later is not playing nice. That seems to be new.




Actually It's not "new" its "classic" back when the community meant something, anytime you KNOW a guild is clearing to get to a certain mob, and you KNOW they have the force to take it out, and you purposely jump ahead of them to get said mob, its ALWAYS been a douche move, even if the rules allow it.........

JUST CAUSE YOU DO DOUCHE THINGS WHILE FOLLOWING THE RULES DOES NOT MAKE YOU LESS OF A DOUCHE~

Tokum-6 cleric- p99

[Ingrum]

After the initial chaos, Inny stood there for like 28 seconds getting all sorts of violated. There wasn't much ping ponging at all. Just some nasty castin' and slashin', not to mention a surely confused Inny. I'm surprised he didn't make an RnF post.

There also wasn't much poopsocking aside from the fact that we had been there longer and made it obvious what our intentions were by sitting in aggro range. Which we did despite being informed by certain DA members that Inny wasn't even possible to spawn for another 30 hours. Thanks for the tip guys!

Regardless, we offered our rotting loot in shout the entire time. Because that's what respectful guilds do. We expected, at the very least, that DA would respect the rules and other players in general and let us have an attempt at the kill without and drama should he have spawned while we were there.

But nay, about 10 minutes before Inny actually spawned, conveniently, DA ran right over top of us and parked their asses in front.

I'll leave most of my personal opinions out of this, but I will say that it's just sad that we're forced to cry to the Devs and GMs to sort out shit like this. We just simply should not be acting like little kids trying to take each others' lunch money on the playground. I'm sure that the devs and GMs love playing Mommy and Daddy for us and it doesn't surprise me that they have to hurt players' feelings sometimes when they get fed up.

Props to both guilds for not being stupid in say or shout. As well as for respecting the decisions that were made. =)

[Supreme]

I'm not taking either side, but am wondering if Inno was spawned already when Trans cleared to the second floor? To me, it sounds like Trans cleared and sat in Inno's room and started to wait, then DA showed up and sat next to them, then Inno spawned once both raids were sitting there? I'm just curious as to how this went down is all.

Inny was not up.

We were at the the top of the stairs watching for him to spawn. DA was clearing the zone and after the zone was cleared moved past us into his room at which time everyone moved to his spawn point.

Inny spawned 10 mins after DA moved there (dont ask me how it was timed so perfect). He DT amothiel and then we engaged as did DA. They got the XP kill and looted.

We had the Fraps and Screenshots showing we were clearly first there and waiting.

[Trimm]

So Inno, Naggy and Vox are all within their windows to spawn, and yet 2 guilds show up right before the correct mob (Innoruuk) spawns. Interesting.

[sidgb]

Well if you guys were there first and in aggro range, DA should have let you be as you had clear claim. Rogaen left the impression you were around a corner out of aggro range.

That said DA still should have respected your claim even if you were in the vacinity of the spawn. That is playing nice.

[yaaaflow]

Well if you guys were there first and in aggro range, DA should have let you be as you had clear claim. Rogaen left the impression you were around a corner out of aggro range.


Technically I guess maybe trans should have let DA be, since from the sounds of it DA was setup ontop of the spawn point first.

[Gorgetrapper]

So Inno, Naggy and Vox are all within their windows to spawn, and yet 2 guilds show up right before the correct mob (Innoruuk) spawns. Interesting.

I'm more interested in this.

[Supreme]

So Inno, Naggy and Vox are all within their windows to spawn, and yet 2 guilds show up right before the correct mob (Innoruuk) spawns. Interesting.

He was due and there was nothing better to do than wait. If he would have spawned 5 hours later i promise we would have not been there (least i would not have been there).

[Fists]

So you're saying it's alright to just leapfrog a guild after they did all the work? Good reasoning.

Divinity thinks it is!

[Supreme]

Technically I guess maybe trans should have let DA be, since from the sounds of it DA was setup ontop of the spawn point first.

There is no requirement that you must be "ontop of the spawn point" to have a claim.

Call it what you want but it was obvious what they were doing.


The fact that they did it within 10 mins of Inny spawning was pretty *cough*.

[Ingrum]

He was due and there was nothing better to do than wait. If he would have spawned 5 hours later i promise we would have not been there (least i would not have been there).

This is true. Supreme isn't allowed to stay up past 10pm on week nights!

[Fists]

Inny was not up.

We were at the the top of the stairs watching for him to spawn. DA was clearing the zone and after the zone was cleared moved past us into his room at which time everyone moved to his spawn point.

Inny spawned 10 mins after DA moved there (dont ask me how it was timed so perfect). He DT amothiel and then we engaged as did DA. They got the XP kill and looted.

We had the Fraps and Screenshots showing we were clearly first there and waiting.

Wait, so you clearly were NOT sitting your members on his spawn point.. what makes you think you have claim? I am not in DA at all mind you, I just think its stupid that people give a shit about the mob they camped for, when it clearly says camp your people ON the mob to lay claim. Seems like they just mobilized past you, and did what the RULES say to do. Grow some balls, if your gonna keep the poopsocking up trans at least sit on the spawn.

[sidgb]

There is no requirement that you must be "ontop of the spawn point" to have a claim.

Call it what you want but it was obvious what they were doing.


The fact that they did it within 10 mins of Inny spawning was pretty *cough*.

Actually there is. Which is what opened the door to this problem. And why I asked.

Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

[Regnon]

I don't have a horse in the race, but I thought it was kind of understood that if one guild was clearning a zone to get to a Mob, its kind of their zone.

I mean..when PoG opens up, you all gonna let someone clear then take Tunare once everything is dead?

[Supreme]

Actually there is. Which is what opened the door to this problem. And why I asked.

You are trying to split hairs...

You must respect other players and raid forces. If a raid force is at a raid target (within aggro range of the raid npc) before you, it is unacceptable to engage the npc or to interfere with their raid in any way before their raid wipes/succeeds. If that raid fails then you are free to take your shot and so on.


As i said before Trans was clearly in the "lair" of Innoruuk waiting for him to spawn when DA decided they would test the rules and move past us right on top of his spawn point. You only have to be within his aggro range and not right on his spawn point with 15+ people to have a claim.

Stop testing the rules and learn to play by the rules.

[Ingrum]

I don't have a horse in the race, but I thought it was kind of understood that if one guild was clearning a zone to get to a Mob, its kind of their zone.

Many guilds and individuals respect that mentality. No one and no guild is perfect though so every now and then the line gets blurred between FTE and Play Nice.

Competition is the shizzle, but not at the expense of our souls!

[Fists]

You weren't in his agro range when he spawned.. clearly lol.

[Supreme]

Wait, so you clearly were NOT sitting your members on his spawn point.. what makes you think you have claim? I am not in DA at all mind you, I just think its stupid that people give a shit about the mob they camped for, when it clearly says camp your people ON the mob to lay claim. Seems like they just mobilized past you, and did what the RULES say to do. Grow some balls, if your gonna keep the poopsocking up trans at least sit on the spawn.

By this rational that means unless you are sitting on the throne of the Ghoul Lord you do not have a claim to the "Lord" camp.

The rules does not say you must be "on his spawn point" it says you must be within aggro of his spawn point. Just like any other "camp" in Everquest.

[Supreme]

You weren't in his agro range when he spawned.. clearly lol.

Ya that is why we had first aggro and the logs showed that to be the case?

oh i see you refuse to accept what the logs say....

I see what you did!

[Fists]

Supreme, stop being so stupid for a second. The rules are CLEARLY RAID RULES. Rogean posted them as RAID RULES. This is not the GENERAL CAMP RULES. WRONG SECTION. HOOKED ON PHONICS. GOT IT?

[Fists]

Ya that is why we had first aggro and the logs showed that to be the case?

oh i see you refuse to accept what the logs say....

I see what you did!

Rogean can say whatever he wants.. that DT was clearly proof of the agro log, so in case Rogean wants to come prove that to me with CLEAR evidence and not word of mouth, then my side will remain as is. They out dps'd your group, they out mobilized you, they followed the rules, and you qq'd. Whens that new Trans server coming out?

[Alabor]

Rogean can say whatever he wants.. that DT was clearly proof of the agro log, so in case Rogean wants to come prove that to me with CLEAR evidence and not word of mouth, then my side will remain as is. They out dps'd your group, they out mobilized you, they followed the rules, and you qq'd. Whens that new Trans server coming out?



This guy is seething with anger, and it makes me feel fantastic.

[kenzar]

Rogean can say whatever he wants..

youre right, he can say whatever he wants, and what he says has weight. In fact its the only weight on the server, and luckily he isnt a total assclown like most of DA.

Whens that new Trans server coming out?

Did the WI server come out already? i havent seen you folks do anything worth a shit in a while.

[yaaaflow]

Yeah so btw, is it actually 2nd aggro instead of 1st aggro on anything that DTs? whomever gets 1st aggro will eat a DT (the DA member in this case) and then whoever gets 2nd aggro (trans in this case) will have claim on the mob?

[Ingrum]

Rogean can say whatever he wants...

Damn straight he can, and he was even courteous enough to provide a backing for his decision. That's more than anyone on this server deserves for the service we get.

[Virtuosos]

So Inno, Naggy and Vox are all within their windows to spawn, and yet 2 guilds show up right before the correct mob (Innoruuk) spawns. Interesting.

we were clearing, saw we were in window, and decided to stay accordindly....atleast until people realized they could be doing something more fun. just luck he popped.




but what i quoted sounds awfully familiar to last week (or the week before, however long ago it was) vox kill with both divinity and DA or WI (whoever) logged out in leiu of the spawn and we coming in and in the middle of buffing up or deciding to leave, vox pops and 60 people log in...interesting indeed!



anyway, im glad to see how well the two guilds involved were behaving that night. the last two times that ive personally encountered DA, they have been pretty cordial and respectful of things (like announcing rots and whatnot).

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Without making any attacks I would like to respond to the person that quotes one line of the raid rules, and quote some others.

First, it is called

Raid Play-Nice Policy.

Secondly

Raid Rules

These rules are created to encourage fair play and competition between raiding guilds. Be courteous and respectful of the other raiding guilds. The following rules apply in raid situations, and are enforced during any disputes.
The rules of engagement for raid bosses on Project 1999 are First to Engage (FTE) in any situation that is not covered below.

Note the be courteous and respectful part. And also note FTE is merely for any situation NOT covered in the rules. I believe courteous and respectful is right there as the opening statement. THEN the FAQ. The FAQ is NOT the raid rules, it is a FAQ. The raid rules are

Raid Rules

These rules are created to encourage fair play and competition between raiding guilds. Be courteous and respectful of the other raiding guilds. The following rules apply in raid situations, and are enforced during any disputes.
The rules of engagement for raid bosses on Project 1999 are First to Engage (FTE) in any situation that is not covered below.

Can we state that again? That is the raid rules. After that is the FAQ. Frequently Asked questions.

Raid rules-courteous and respectful.
Faq-frequently asked questions for those incapable of being so, or for a legitimate dispute or confusion.

[Evorix]

Trolls are getting dumber and dumber...

DA KSes offically now?

notice the spelling

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

We went to hate because DA was logged by fear waiting for CT to pop, good timing guys. Divinity got into sky before Trans, so we went to hate, uncontested. We cleared roamers, and some statics, and move the raid in to await repops. We were there to clear hate, not kill Inny, but when we discovered, discussed, it came to light, whatever, we decided we might as well see if he spawned while we cleared hate.

It is hardly poopsocking to kill Innoruuk while you are up there clearing a plane. We didn't log there and wait. We didn't have him as our first priority. We didn't clear and wait there for hours...we killed mobs, we cleared repops in his temple, and he spawned shortly thereafter. shrug.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And another point for those with the DT is first aggro mentality.

The first DT is the first DT not necessarily first aggro.

Try going up to Key Master in sky. Melee him. See if he melees you first, before Dt'ing you.

Then you will see what I mean. Death touch is not always instant if you're in melee range. So say there are 2 players sitting near Innys spawn point. One might get crunched and if he /she dies, the next eats the DT. Which is what happened, but shrug.

Don't believe me, go melee Key master.

[sidgb]

And another point for those with the DT is first aggro mentality.

The first DT is the first DT not necessarily first aggro.

Try going up to Key Master in sky. Melee him. See if he melees you first, before Dt'ing you.

Then you will see what I mean. Death touch is not always instant if you're in melee range. So say there are 2 players sitting near Innys spawn point. One might get crunched and if he /she dies, the next eats the DT. Which is what happened, but shrug.

Don't believe me, go melee Key master.
Rogaen said the DA member had first aggro and was DT.

[sidgb]

Damn straight he can, and he was even courteous enough to provide a backing for his decision. That's more than anyone on this server deserves for the service we get.

So the question is, where do you have to sit to claim Inny. or do you just have to clear with 15 and claim him while in zone?

From ZL?
Ramp?
Second floor?
Stairs?
Aggro range?
Spawn point?

Do we know anymore?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Q: Will the planes be open to everyone?
A: Yes. Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag.

[sidgb]

Q: Will the planes be open to everyone?
A: Yes. Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag.

Seriously, even Trans doesn't buy that one.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

There is no question where to sit and claim Inny. The real question is, why are you trying to figure a way around the be courteous and respectful thing. All that is seems you want to know is where do you have to sit to claim Inny. That is your driving focus.

You should be asking, what do I have to do in order to be courteous and respectful. Or look up those words in the dictionary. Here allow me.


cour·te·ous
   /ˈkɜrtiəs/ Show Spelled[kur-tee-uhs] Show IPA
–adjective
having or showing good manners; polite.



re·spect·ful
   /rɪˈspɛktfəl/ Show Spelled[ri-spekt-fuhl] Show IPA
–adjective
full of, characterized by, or showing politeness or deference: a respectful reply.

Shall I look up deference? I shall.


def·er·ence
   /ˈdɛfərəns/ Show Spelled[def-er-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
1.
respectful submission or yielding to the judgment, opinion, will, etc., of another.
2.
respectful or courteous regard: in deference to his wishes.

[Rogean]

Rogean can say whatever he wants.. that DT was clearly proof of the agro log, so in case Rogean wants to come prove that to me with CLEAR evidence and not word of mouth, then my side will remain as is.

Forgive the lack of a front end, its still being coded.

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyenc.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyentlist.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innysly.png

And to clarify.. After inny's first death touch he disengaged because there was nobody else on the aggro list. If there had been, say, 5 people on the aggro list, and someone got death touched, they would still show up in this log. This log only gets cleared from memory when a mob has nobody on the aggro list anymore, or it dies and its written to the database as is.

[Lostprophets]

Regardless to all the bullshit pissing and moaning by all you guys trying to be discrete in DA...

the fact of the matter is....

it's funny how you guys are all of a sudden porting up right 80 people to zurg rush when mobs are merely 10-15 minutes from popping. coincidental? i think not...you guys are terrible at mobilizing, hence the poopsocking to try to keep IB from getting them..

[Tiggles]

Forgive the lack of a front end, its still being coded.

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyenc.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyentlist.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innysly.png

And to clarify.. After inny's first death touch he disengaged because there was nobody else on the aggro list. If there had been, say, 5 people on the aggro list, and someone got death touched, they would still show up in this log. This log only gets cleared from memory when a mob has nobody on the aggro list anymore, or it dies and its written to the database as is.

It's Crazy looking shit like that is why I'm on the consumer end of the tech world. Rogean can you pair my bluetooth to my car? you people are good at all that internet shit right?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And we do buy it. Just because you don't see it because you weren't personally involved doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

My personal take is the same in game as life. Do unto others, the golden rule. Treat everyone with respect, and be courteous. Unless they show themselves unworthy, or... they do not show the same. In that case I stop turning the other cheek and an eye for an eye becomes more likely. Even so, I see us maintaining cool heads and personally I try to understand, and not judge. But it isn't rocket surgery, sometimes people are just being wankers because they're immature, careless, selfish, impatient, whatever. I personally cannot abide bullies, or those that do what they want simply because they can. I have even less patience for those who seek to justify their actions or rationalize poor behavior trying to wave rulebooks citing it is by the rules if viewed from this perspective.

The raid rules are clear, a few lines, above the Faq. PLay nice, be courteous and respectful. It is that simple. The FAQ is there to try and avoid the stupid questions... unfortunately people think the FAQ is the rules. Look at the intent as well as the letter of the law. The definitions come into play because sometimes there may be a gray area. Perhaps two guilds are in fear, due to the lack of content at this stage, and the amount of raid capable players. CT pops. Whose is it? Not, one guild is in hate, and despite that you bring up a force to move past, or steamroll, or bully/intimidate.

[sidgb]

Sure there is a question. And quoting a dictionary won't answer it.

The new raid rules required you to be in aggro range preferably on his spawn point to eliminate poop socking. While poop socking was unnecessary in this case Supreme made it clear Trans was going to try and sit there for 5 hours. If raids no longer have to sit in aggro range we are back to where we were before the new raid rules.

Personally I would have deleted the loot. DA didn't deserve it for running over you guys. And trans didn't deserve it for being timid and giving them a crack in the rules by not sitting at the spawn making the whole hassle happen.

You want a spawn make it clear. Hiding out of aggro range is just begging for trouble on this server.

[Holey]

qq

[Dantes]

Heh heh. phpMyadmin.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The new raid rules require you to be courteous and respectful. Plz discuss.

[Rogean]

Heh heh. phpMyadmin.

Is awesome~

[Ronas]

reading all that would show that inny was not up, both guild sitting on spawn. One guild out did the other and got the loot taken away, said guild that lost there loot didnt complain. Winning guild comes on forum to whine about other guild. Nice.

[Uthgaard]

We just simply should not be acting like little kids trying to take each others' lunch money on the playground. I'm sure that the devs and GMs love playing Mommy and Daddy for us

Holy shit, someone gets it!

Every time a guild dispute needs mediated by Rogean, everyone else's upper level issue gets pushed further down the line. Waiting on a reimbursement? Got hacked? There are only so many hours in a day. Stop and tally up how many of those get consumed every time a raid target turns into a playground rumble.

Time is a resource, like it or not. Our ability to help the players who need help through no fault of their own, is a direct function of your ability to help yourselves.

[oldhead]

What is it you want to hear? Clearly you are looking for some kind of fight or some kind of arguing point to justify DA.

Trans was there. DA ported up later and while we were on the second floor waiting for Inny they decided to try and leap us to Inny.

We got the Fraps/SS of the entire event, gave Rogean the proof and he ruled accordingly.

I must say.. that's one spiffy looking signature. Very clean.

[oldhead]

Holy shit, someone gets it!

Every time a guild dispute needs mediated by Rogean, everyone else's upper level issue gets pushed further down the line. Waiting on a reimbursement? Got hacked? There are only so many hours in a day. Stop and tally up how many of those get consumed every time a raid target turns into a playground rumble.

Time is a resource, like it or not. Our ability to help the players who need help through no fault of their own, is a direct function of your ability to help yourselves.

i've been waiting for a reimburse for a week :mad:

Fucken DA!!!!

[oldhead]

Heh heh. phpMyadmin.

Is awesome~

You shouldnt be showing people what you use on the back end bro.
Not with the amount of tencho nerd rage this server gets.

Just saying.

[Theldios]

Holy shit, someone gets it!

Every time a guild dispute needs mediated by Rogean, everyone else's upper level issue gets pushed further down the line. Waiting on a reimbursement? Got hacked? There are only so many hours in a day. Stop and tally up how many of those get consumed every time a raid target turns into a playground rumble.

Time is a resource, like it or not. Our ability to help the players who need help through no fault of their own, is a direct function of your ability to help yourselves.

Why should they get priotiry over anyone else?
Let them rot in hell for all I care. they should not be put infront of other people. and for you to say that they do get priority over others shows favoritsim to the big guild vs the little guy which is really not that great of a job you keep patting yourself on the back for doing

[Ronas]

Holy shit, someone gets it!

Every time a guild dispute needs mediated by Rogean, everyone else's upper level issue gets pushed further down the line. Waiting on a reimbursement? Got hacked? There are only so many hours in a day. Stop and tally up how many of those get consumed every time a raid target turns into a playground rumble.

Time is a resource, like it or not. Our ability to help the players who need help through no fault of their own, is a direct function of your ability to help yourselves.

Trans is happily playing in the sand pit and DA come along and play with
DA says: Oh i think i left my truck somewhere out here, i think it was around here i buried it and will need to dig it up
Trans: Oh i want to play with it too, i help dig it up with.
DA: hey here it is found it
Trans: Gimme!
DA: Wtf, i found it first
Trans: (cry) Mommy
Rogean: Hey kids, whats wrong?
Trans: I was playing in the pit and DA came and took my truck.
DA: ....
Rogean: Look here DA, dont go taking his truck, i saw him in the pit a while now, hand it over.
DA: But i buried it last week and dug it up, its mine.
Rogean: Look i dont care i saw him in the pit playing, give it to him.
DA: ...., fine here. what a cry baby.
Trans: (Smile) hahah take that.
DA: What?
Trans: Nothing.

[Tiggles]

Why should they get priotiry over anyone else?
Let them rot in hell for all I care. they should not be put infront of other people. and for you to say that they do get priority over others shows favoritsim to the big guild vs the little guy which is really not that great of a job you keep patting yourself on the back for doing

Sorry 80+ people fighting in a raid zone little tommy accidentally sold his short sword* to a merchant.

[quido]

You're pretty much all fucking retarded.

[Molitoth]

Sorry 80+ people fighting in a raid zone little tommy accidentally sold his short sword* to a merchant.

lol

[YendorLootmonkey]

Sorry 80+ people fighting in a raid zone little tommy accidentally sold his short sword* to a merchant.

WHAT IS LITTLE TOMMY GONNA DO? BEAT ON MOBS WITH HIS LIL PUNY NEWB FISTS?!?!?!

[purist]

This dispute can be resolved by simply thinking outside the bun, y'all.

[Hasbinbad]

This dispute can be resolved by simply thinking outside the bun, y'all.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/macoftheyear/cantinatacos.jpg

[Ronas]

Sorry 80+ people fighting in a raid zone little tommy accidentally sold his short sword* to a merchant.

LOL, dont think you can sell starting weopon to vendor but i get your point.

[Supreme]

Trans is happily playing in the sand pit and DA come along and play with
DA says: Oh i think i left my truck somewhere out here, i think it was around here i buried it and will need to dig it up
Trans: Oh i want to play with it too, i help dig it up with.
DA: hey here it is found it
Trans: Gimme!
DA: Wtf, i found it first
Trans: (cry) Mommy
Rogean: Hey kids, whats wrong?
Trans: I was playing in the pit and DA came and took my truck.
DA: ....
Rogean: Look here DA, dont go taking his truck, i saw him in the pit a while now, hand it over.
DA: But i buried it last week and dug it up, its mine.
Rogean: Look i dont care i saw him in the pit playing, give it to him.
DA: ...., fine here. what a cry baby.
Trans: (Smile) hahah take that.
DA: What?
Trans: Nothing.


Umm...since when did Innoruuk belong to DA?


Your script would be better written to say....

Trans is happily playing in the sand pit and DA come along and play with
DA says: Oh looks like Trans is looking for that lost truck that disappeared last week.
Trans: Oh we are already here looking for it, perhaps you could wait till we have finished then you can look for yourself.
DA: hey here it is found it!
Trans: wtf, did you not understand we were already here?
DA: Wtf, i found it first
Trans: Punkasses, lets talk to an adult and see what he says!
Rogean: Hey kids, whats wrong?
Trans: I was playing in the pit looking for that lost truck and DA came and took the truck we was looking for.
DA: ....but we found the truck!
Rogean: Look here DA, they were here first looking for the truck, i saw him in the pit a while now, hand it over.
DA: But i shouldn't have to wait for them to find it why does the rules apply to me!
Rogean: Look i dont care i saw him in the pit looking for the truck, give it to him.
DA: ...., fine here. what a cry baby.
Trans: Punkasses learn to play by the rules.
DA: What? Rules?
Trans: Nothing.

[Supreme]

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/macoftheyear/cantinatacos.jpg

Steak Cantina tacos are tasty.

[Ronas]

I like my impression better, your kid version sounds too grown up to be kids. And more rude too..

[Abacab niggah]

They fight over spawns on my server too :(

http://i55.tinypic.com/hwk3uo.jpg

[eqdruid76]

Holy shit, someone gets it!

Every time a guild dispute needs mediated by Rogean, everyone else's upper level issue gets pushed further down the line. Waiting on a reimbursement? Got hacked? There are only so many hours in a day. Stop and tally up how many of those get consumed every time a raid target turns into a playground rumble.

Time is a resource, like it or not. Our ability to help the players who need help through no fault of their own, is a direct function of your ability to help yourselves.

Need more staff, IMO. I'm sure there are dozens of volunteers at the ready.

[Swishahouse]

ABACAB hahahahahahah you ole dog you! I CALL HAX !!!
heheheh

[Bubbles]

They fight over spawns on my server too :(

http://i55.tinypic.com/hwk3uo.jpg

I think we found Rogean's new forum avatar.

[Theldios]

Sorry 80+ people fighting in a raid zone little tommy accidentally sold his short sword* to a merchant.
Sorry kid but I have been in customer relations for over 35 years and that senario is not how it should be. 1st come 1st serve is the way it should be the 80+ morons who can't work out a dispute by themselves do not take priority over someone else.

[Noleafclover]

You are trying to split hairs...



As i said before Trans was clearly in the "lair" of Innoruuk waiting for him to spawn when DA decided they would test the rules and move past us right on top of his spawn point. You only have to be within his aggro range and not right on his spawn point with 15+ people to have a claim.

Stop testing the rules and learn to play by the rules.

And all the poopsocking in the past was done in the "zone" of the mob being poopsocked. THE point of the rule being BE on the spawn point was to STOP afk camping.




As for all the "play nice" whining about leapfrogging that's been going on, look. Here's the thing.

Take the horse-collar tackle. People thought it was horrible before the injury that resulted in the rule change (talking American Football here.... but the point should be clear).

But if I'm able to tackle your guy only that way, and I have no assurances you won't use the horse-collar tackle yourself, why wouldn't I do that?

If we, as a community, want to stop leapfrogging, then the guilds who want to agree not to leapfrog each other are perfectly capable of making and honoring that agreement without going to "big brother." Unless such an agreement is in place, I hope whichever guild I join next is not *above* leapfrogging when there are no assurances other guilds will be similarly aloof.

So trans, before you whined that you got leapfrogged, did you put an agreement not to leapfrog each other in place with DA?

[Supreme]

Showing up at our normal times we raid (6pm CST) and camping a mob is something i would not consider to be poopsocking.


What i find to be pretty funny is that DA is given a pass by the server for breaking server rules and *cough*. Yet when someone speaks up they are called "whiners".

So here is your EAT SHIT AND DIE comment because I have already explained it once.

If you still got fucking questions....READ IT AGAIN!

[Holey]

I DNOT KONW HOW TO RAED OMG

[Dukat]

Face it guys youre all just sick that Trans got a raid mob. Suck more cock please~

[Virtuosos]

i dont think either one of us were whining until people start throwing shit.....




uth i got some ideers for ye btw

[Ronas]

Face it guys youre all just sick that Trans got a raid mob. Suck more cock please~

might have been what trans done to get the loot off the mob, but from looks of it they didnt get the mob

[Dukat]

might have been what trans done to get the loot off the mob, but from looks of it they didnt get the mob

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz185/peachoptimal/lookatthisguy.jpg

[a_forum_troll_001]

You must respect other players and raid forces. [/COLOR] If a raid force is at a raid target (within aggro range of the raid npc) before you, it is unacceptable to engage the npc or to interfere with their raid in any way before their raid wipes/succeeds. If that raid fails then you are free to take your shot and so on.

FAQ


Q: Can we continue to camp the raid mobs?
A: "Camping" of raid targets has completely changed. If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

Thank you.

bolded to highlight the amount of epic failure within this thread.

[ShnarfShnarf]

might have been what trans done to get the loot off the mob, but from looks of it they didnt get the mob

Might have been what da did to get the mob, or didnt get the mob.

being huge douchebags, as per the guildcharter, not only did they try to leapfrog but had to resort to KSing when they failed

Real Grade A stuff from da here

[whitebandit]

The master Raid Policy Thread can be found

Here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667).
Q: Can we continue to camp the raid mobs?
A: "Camping" of raid targets has completely changed. If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.]

What about that part? ONLY in my opinion means ONLY.. this whole situation makes me realize a few things about this server that is for sure.

[Ronas]

being huge douchebags

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2009/south-park-douche.jpg

[a_forum_troll_001]

What about that part? ONLY in my opinion means ONLY.. this whole situation makes me realize a few things about this server that is for sure.

only if you complain enough, or blatantly admit you were up there waiting just in case, clearly NOT sitting on the spawn as the rules to clearly and utterly state.

can we just change it to FFA and turn this into a "who's got more friends" battle? or preferably a fix that makes 46+ players pvp flagged? cant cry when you're already dead!

[Glitterati]

What part of Rogean's ruling don't you idiots understand? He threw out the camping rule and reverted to the First to Agro rule, and Slydexx was first to agro. It's all right there in his logs.

[a_forum_troll_001]

What part of Rogean's ruling don't you idiots understand? He threw out the camping rule and reverted to the First to Agro rule, and Slydexx was first to agro. It's all right there in his logs.

i could care less either way, bold is my point. whats the use in making a big deal over rules, when they're cast aside on a regular basis? it might as well be changed to FFA, let us tear each other apart, and less headaches for the gm's.

[Dukat]

i could care less either way, bold is my point. whats the use in making a big deal over rules, when they're cast aside on a regular basis? it might as well be changed to FFA, let us tear each other apart, and less headaches for the gm's.

You've wiped the cum out of your eyes and seen the light. Grats

[Glitterati]

Ever heard of case by case basis? The point is, GM's have the final word over everything that happens here.

[sidgb]

What part of Rogean's ruling don't you idiots understand? He threw out the camping rule and reverted to the First to Agro rule, and Slydexx was first to agro. It's all right there in his logs.

Actually, without Rogeans logs showing aggro was lost, it would have appeared DA was first to engage at the time because of the DT on Amothiel. In true FTE without GM logs, Trans would have been obligated to back off in favor of DA.

But yea, DA should have left you guys alone. Best to stick to the, "we were camping in the general vacinity if Inny's spawn a safe distance away first and rely on the play nice policy" arguement. It's the best.

[Ingrum]

i could care less either way, bold is my point. whats the use in making a big deal over rules, when they're cast aside on a regular basis? it might as well be changed to FFA, let us tear each other apart, and less headaches for the gm's.

It might as well be changed to respecting other players and acting like civilized human beings. Kind of like that fair competition idea that discourages distasteful tactics. Less headaches for the GMs.

And once again, Rogean resorted to the FTE rule when there wasn't a clear alternative.

Please, if you don't like how they run their server then feel free to go make and manage your own. But you won't. BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT.

[ShnarfShnarf]

In true FTE without GM logs, Trans would have been obligated to back off in favor of DA.

Fucking GMs and their rules if it werent for them inny would have been DA's.

They stole it fair and square after all, fucking asshole GM's and the rules man i swear DA would be #1 instead of #8 if they werent around

[Glitterati]

And it's pretty sad that they have to get involved at all! The psychology of cyberspace dictates that everyone gets to act like a douche. Anonymity actually causes this bad behavior, example, you with a name "forum troll". The personal disconnect is so great that some people are unable to recognize anything that happens on a computer screen as having real-life consequences.

[Bubbles]

What part of Rogean's ruling don't you idiots understand? He threw out the camping rule and reverted to the First to Agro rule, and Slydexx was first to agro. It's all right there in his logs.

Actually, in this Death Touch instance : First to "Hold" Aggro.

So something new for the ol' rule book.

[Supreme Retard]

And it's pretty sad that they have to get involved at all! The psychology of cyberspace dictates that everyone gets to act like a douche. Anonymity actually causes this bad behavior, example, you with a name "forum troll". The personal disconnect is so great that some people are unable to recognize anything that happens on a computer screen as having real-life consequences.

http://got-fruit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/truth-or-consequences.jpg

[Ingrum]

http://got-fruit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/truth-or-consequences.jpg

Damn, I lol'd!

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Actually Miley...

Q: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player.

So, when a mob no longer has aggro on anyone following a quick death touch...it is not engaged. That is where he went with it.

I would also state this rule in of itself, the FTE is contradictory. First to be aggroed on differs from first to aggro, or first to engage. The first can be mob dependent, the latter is player dependent. A mob aggroing you is not the same as you aggroing the mob.
You are Afk? Mob aggros you, starts killing you. Player_01 comes along, engages him and you come back claiming kill steal, citing FTE rule. However, he was first to engage, and aggro the mob. You were the first to BE aggroed, but you were not engaging the mob.

So the rule should be changed perhaps. A mob having aggro on someone does not necessarily mean they are actively engaging said mob.

Also, perhaps enforce courtesy and respect more, or more harshly. Don't allow people to justify or rationalize poor behavior.

And the real failure, the point that is missed here, is that someone might care so little about their reputation. If you KNOW it will create drama, problems, and this whole mess, why do it? Because you think you found a way to get away with acting poorly?

Character is made by many acts, it can be lost by a single one.

[Glitterati]

Actually Miley...

Q: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player.

So, when a mob no longer has aggro on anyone following a quick death touch...it is not engaged. That is where he went with it.

I would also state this rule in of itself, the FTE is contradictory. First to be aggroed on differs from first to aggro, or first to engage. The first can be mob dependent, the latter is player dependent. A mob aggroing you is not the same as you aggroing the mob.
You are Afk? Mob aggros you, starts killing you. Player_01 comes along, engages him and you come back claiming kill steal, citing FTE rule. However, he was first to engage, and aggro the mob. You were the first to BE aggroed, but you were not engaging the mob.

So the rule should be changed perhaps. A mob having aggro on someone does not necessarily mean they are actively engaging said mob.

Also, perhaps enforce courtesy and respect more, or more harshly. Don't allow people to justify or rationalize poor behavior.

And the real failure, the point that is missed here, is that someone might care so little about their reputation. If you KNOW it will create drama, problems, and this whole mess, why do it? Because you think you found a way to get away with acting poorly?

Character is made by many acts, it can be lost by a single one.

You sir, are brilliant ;)

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I think I am done with this thread, beating a dead horse. I would also point out I do not see DA members lighting this or any other thread up, or lighting up ooc, or shout in game as a result of this incident. So despite what happened and occurred, players in game didn't act up about it after the smoke cleared, or really get bad here. So kudos there.

And they acted completely respectful and courteous the day before. We were breaking fear, they waited outside. We fight at the zone in, them zoning in would probably result in bad blood, chaos. They waited. We evacced to reinsert, then they zoned in. We waited. When they had things settled, we zoned in. It all went rather perfectly, courtesy and respect shown. They even offered up the first piece of rotting loot in ooc, perhaps as an olive branch. I would hope that the mob isn't what drove this, people clamoring for loot forcing leadership to make decisions they knew perhaps might not have the best result. But that is their business, my speculation.

Seems like we are arguing with a few trolls is all. But there are a few changes that could be for the better as a result of things gleaned from this thread.

I hope.

[Supreme Retard]

Character is made by many acts, it can be lost by a single one.

http://prod.static.panthers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/clubimages/custom/character_education_edu.jpg

[Supreme Retard]

Seems like we are arguing with a few trolls is all.

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/successful_troll.jpg

[Bubbles]

Actually Miley...

Q: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player.

So, when a mob no longer has aggro on anyone following a quick death touch...it is not engaged. That is where he went with it.

So the rule should be changed perhaps. A mob having aggro on someone does not necessarily mean they are actively engaging said mob.


Yeah, precisely. I think that's what Glitter meant to say. And all I was trying to point out, too. ;)

[Noleafclover]

I'm really sick of leapfrogging threads since the FTE rule. I've got 3 questions I'd like you to consider. As it's fair to consider this an attack on transcendence's view here that they were leapfrogged, first I'm going to give you some background on my feelings on the decision, and on DA.

I'll also briefly state that yes - I feel I've met more than the average amount of assholes from trans - and yes, I don't like Supreme from his posts here.

But my question is more about the "leapfrogging" issue that's cropped up since FTE rules. If this is TLDR, skip to 3) where I state what I believe to be indisputable facts, and ask my 3 questions.

Two small points first.

1) Decision

I believe Rogean made the right call here. It's first to engage, straight up, by the rules. And straight up, Inny disengaged after DTing according to the logs.

I think subjectively Inny should have belonged to DA, but it's better to stick to the rules to (theoretically) minimize crying. It should even out in the long run, and people can plan around it with DTing mobs.

2) DA

I'm not a fan of DA's leadership's past and present decisions. Duping items and crashing zones was a dick move - and OK, they took their lumps for that - but DA is the leading cause of poopsocking, as agreed by everyone else; and has camped mobs AT spawn points under the current iteration of the rules. Which is just ridiculous.

3) Leapfrogging: Some facts

-The new rules encourage leapfrogging by being first to engage mobs, with no mention of trash or position giving a raid credit.

-There has been what could be - and has been, on the forums - called leapfrogging since the rule change on EVERY cazic spawn, and plenty in plane of sky with the 8 hour spawn timer.

-Every single top guild has been accused of it.

-Many players enjoy it, and feel that it's competitive. Many guilds admit to it. There are calls for FFA, or for moving more in that direction.

So, with those facts in mind

Is every player who enjoys the competition of leapfrogging a douche?

If so, then leapfrogging must be inherently evil. If it's inherently evil, what's stopping you from making agreements with several or every other guild on the server to not leapfrog each other? Shouldn't they automatically agree, assuming they were not also inherently evil?

Wouldn't this solve your problem?

[Supreme Retard]

If so, then leapfrogging must be inherently evil.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0910/leapfrog-leapfrog-pedo-bear-demotivational-poster-1255972685.jpg

[Abacab niggah]

Forgive the lack of a front end, its still being coded.

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyenc.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innyentlist.png

Http://www.rogean.com/images/innysly.png



My FTE system is better

http://i56.tinypic.com/2mmw8wo.png

[Abacab niggah]

Basically on my screen you got to avoid the trains and rule trucks, and hop across those slow turtles and onto the logs so that you're registered in my system that you were the first to get the hi-score

[MiRo2]

Page 13 and no one has even thought of mentioning this yet?

Theres a block of text missing from Rogean's shout. I can't remember if it came before or after the block shown at the beginning of this thread, I wish I had SS'd it. Why did Rogean fall back on the FTE rules? Neither guild could provide evidence that they had 15 Characters on the spawn point prior to Innorruuk spawning as the current raid rules state. People may not like the decision, but when the judging party shows up, and party A is claiming one thing, and party B is claiming another, but neither have proof, what is he supposed to do? I think defaulting to an extremely technical FTE ruling was probably the fairest way to rule in this situation.

[Glitterati]

Screenshots were provided to Rogean per his request. Ours showed when Trans entered the zone with a force large enough to take the boss, where we were camping and timestamped. There is no block of text missing from that screenshot posted in this thread, that's all that Rogean said.

[Rogean]

Both guilds claimed they were on spawn point first. Thats what happens when confusion sets in when another guild starts leapfrogging, both guilds start running for the spawn point to get there first. I bet in reality they were both at the spawn point within seconds of eachother. Who was first? We don't know. The fact is Transcendence was also there much longer actually waiting for the spawn around the corner.

[Rogean]

You shouldnt be showing people what you use on the back end bro.
Not with the amount of tencho nerd rage this server gets.

Just saying.

EQEmu is open source. Not hard to figure out it runs on MySQL. >_>

[Erasong]

sounds like the poopsock is makin a comeback.

[Virtuosos]

the simple fact that neither guild was in hate for more than a few hours (trans actively clearing mobs and DA zoning in and waiting 30minutes) kinda cancels out the whole "poopsock" thing....maybe DA had intention on doing it, i dont know... but trans doesnt really stick around for hours hoping for a raid boss.


but keep it up, eventually i think everyone is going to totally agree

[sidgb]

the simple fact that neither guild was in hate for more than a few hours (trans actively clearing mobs and DA zoning in and waiting 30minutes) kinda cancels out the whole "poopsock" thing....maybe DA had intention on doing it, i dont know... but trans doesnt really stick around for hours hoping for a raid boss.


but keep it up, eventually i think everyone is going to totally agree

According to Supreme..

He was due and there was nothing better to do than wait. If he would have spawned 5 hours later i promise we would have not been there (least i would not have been there).


Not sure if 5 hours is considered poopsocking but he appears to be saying Trans was planning to sit around for a good while. The early spawn was just dumb luck. Is it a distinction with out a difference?

If the door has now been reopened to camping outside aggro range, then yes, poopsocking now appears to be part of the picture again. Rogean denounced DA for leapfrogging but did not berate Trans for camping outside aggro which seems to go counter to the FTE we thought they were trying to promote with the new rules change. Utlimately Rogean did go to the logs for aggro chain which was probably the best way to deal with it.

I think it's safe to say camping the spawn without a zerg force is suicide and any guild forced to do it by a competing raid will end up loosing as they wipe. Trans did the only thing they could to have a serious chance at the kill. Problem is the rules dictating being at the spawn in aggro range favor numbers. Possibly an unexpected consequence of the rules revision.

[Virtuosos]

he said if he would of spawned 5 hours later we would have NOT been there, maybe one or two members would just to get a timer on him but that would be about it....the most that i have ever waited for a pop on a raid with trans over the past 6 months ive been with em has been about two hours....we dont recruit people who are willing to sit for 72 hours straight waiting for a pop, we detest it. the only time you will see us wait for a pop is for when sky/fear/hate was cleared 7hours earlier and we want to be the first ones there to start clearing again.

and aggro range is pretty wide with raid bosses, does it boil down to who was closest to the actual spawn point or who was in aggro range first..you can either sit directly on spawn or 100 feet away and inny would aggro ya, does the person that moves in second, 50 feet closer, get first right even if you were there first?

[girth]

i swear DA would be #1 instead of #8 if they werent around

ROFL I like this guy

[sidgb]

he said if he would of spawned 5 hours later we would have NOT been there, maybe one or two members would just to get a timer on him but that would be about it....the most that i have ever waited for a pop on a raid with trans over the past 6 months ive been with em has been about two hours....we dont recruit people who are willing to sit for 72 hours straight waiting for a pop, we detest it. the only time you will see us wait for a pop is for when sky/fear/hate was cleared 7hours earlier and we want to be the first ones there to start clearing again.

and aggro range is pretty wide with raid bosses, does it boil down to who was closest to the actual spawn point or who was in aggro range first..you can either sit directly on spawn or 100 feet away and inny would aggro ya, does the person that moves in second, 50 feet closer, get first right even if you were there first?

per Rogean..

The fact is Transcendence was also there much longer actually waiting for the spawn around the corner.

Generally "around the corner" is out of LOS and out off aggro range which is the real point. Unless Rogean was mistaken. The range is not relevant at that point.

Don't get me wrong, it was probably the best choice for your raid force as an Inny spawn on top of you would have been a wipe. I would guess only DA had the numbers to actually sit on the spawn point in the immediate aggro range that features so prominently in the raid rules.

The question is, do the raid rules now effectively dictate a zerg force has priority over a smaller force who cant afford an uncontrolled aggro event because of camp spawn requirements?

[Virtuosos]

well im not really talking about where we were sitting at when i mentioned distance, that was just an overall question for the future...



just another question to bring up at the next PTA

[Cyrano]

per Rogean..



The question is, do the raid rules now effectively dictate a zerg force has priority over a smaller force who cant afford an uncontrolled aggro event because of camp spawn requirements?

The answer is that people want to constantly nickel and dime the raid rules all and up down these message boards to try and validate the fact that they are being immoral.

If you're gonna be badboys about competing for mobs then be fucking badboys, don't sit here trying to convince people the rules were on your side.

[Bashee_Feind]

and aggro range is pretty wide with raid bosses, does it boil down to who was closest to the actual spawn point or who was in aggro range first..you can either sit directly on spawn or 100 feet away and inny would aggro ya, does the person that moves in second, 50 feet closer, get first right even if you were there first?

You were sitting at the top of the ramp, around the corner and through a doorway of Inny. In no way, shape, or form were you in aggro range. You were at the top of the ramp and out of aggro range (as said by Supreme himself) and DA came up the ramp and ran into Inny's spawn point.

Also I'd like to point out the statement made a few post prior. Neither guild had any clear evidence on who was at the spawn point first. And you notice that WAS in fact left out of the screenshot. Neither Trans or DA had any proper proof, so Rogean switched to FTE rules. Otherwise, he wouldn't have bothered going through those logs, he would have just awarded to the first with 15 on the spawn point (as that's where you're supposed to be to claim a mob). Supreme, let's see your fraps you're claiming.

Shaere. Yes, things were kept quiet in public chat, and that's respectful. However, for your guild members to be going after DA on this post, even some stretching of the truth in situations, is not very respectful. DA has left this post alone, why can't you guys? Just drop it and move along.
I also think you have a better attitude than supreme. He acts like a child at times. kudos for representing in a better manner.

This whole incident was just silly. Rogean made the call or who got what and he took care of it from there. DA wasn't whining, but Supreme seems to be, even though it was ruled in his favor. Just let it go. You got the loot, Congratulations. Take it and walk away. What's the sense in fighting?

[sidgb]

The answer is that people want to constantly nickel and dime the raid rules all and up down these message boards to try and validate the fact that they are being immoral.

If you're gonna be badboys about competing for mobs then be fucking badboys, don't sit here trying to convince people the rules were on your side.

Sadly, the raid rules lend themselves to this "nickel and dime" stuff because of their specificity on certain aspect of staking a claim.

Arguably, in an FTE focused environment DA's leapfrog actions could actually be considered playing nice. Heck, in PvP killing the other raid force for the spawn is also "playing nice".

For the most part, when people get beat they consider the other guy as not "playing nice". We have people on the server that think a handful of guilds dominating all the raid bosses is not "playing nice". "Playing nice" can be very subjective based on your perspective.

[Virtuosos]

im thinking this whole spawn varience is bunch of bullshit anyways, make it 100% random and not in some 3 day time frame and it eliminates any sort of camping and whatnot


but thats a whole new topic that has been beaten to death 20 times over =/

[Shiftin]

I feel like i'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Granted I'm not quite planes ready on this server, but I led more than my fair share of raids on live.

How is no one pointing out that it is strategically retarded to actually sit on a bosses' spawn point. It negates your ability to safely kill the other things in the zone that drops items you also need, which is a common sense thing to do while waiting (unless anyone wants to pretend there aren't people in both guilds who could use pieces of their planar armor). A big pull (esp healers) + inopportune inny spawn could easily wipe a raid that could otherwise wipe the floor with inny.

I understand the rules are such so that people can't claim nagafen from the zone line with a handful of people, but let's apply a tiny bit of common sense here.

[Supreme Retard]

sounds like the poopsock is makin a comeback.

Perhaps you can quit again! You won't be missed!

[a_forum_troll_001]

the simple fact that neither guild was in hate for more than a few hours (trans actively clearing mobs and DA zoning in and was also actively clearing) kinda cancels out the whole "poopsock" thing....maybe DA had intention on doing it, i dont know... but trans doesnt really stick around for hours hoping for a raid boss.


but keep it up, eventually i think everyone is going to totally agree

fixt

[zianlo1]

What is it you want to hear? Clearly you are looking for some kind of fight or some kind of arguing point to justify DA.

Trans was there. DA ported up later and while we were on the second floor waiting for Inny they decided to try and leap us to Inny.

We got the Fraps/SS of the entire event, gave Rogean the proof and he ruled accordingly.

Im not in DA or Trans, let alone the raiding scene for P99 yet, but go fuck yourself. Its contested mobs, you should get less healers and more dps, and maybe DA wouldnt have gone and raped your dmg on the parses.

[Virtuosos]

fixt

fixed




<3 :cool:

[liveitup1216]

fixed




<3 :cool:

i like you. :o

[Holey]

i like you. :o

can i get some buffs please
being a shadow priest sucks :(
mind controlling doesn't work as well here :(

[Ingrum]

<3 :cool:

[Regnon]

Im not in DA or Trans, let alone the raiding scene for P99 yet, but go fuck yourself. Its contested mobs, you should get less healers and more dps, and maybe DA wouldnt have gone and raped your dmg on the parses.

So when you DO get in a raiding guild..and by this attitude im betting DA will take you....and someone else does this to YOUR Raid....we wont see you in here complaining, will we?

[zianlo1]

So when you DO get in a raiding guild..and by this attitude im betting DA will take you....and someone else does this to YOUR Raid....we wont see you in here complaining, will we?

Mobs are in a contested area for a reason, and no, I wont complain too much. Will I be pissed that my raid wasnt able to engage and recover fast enough from killing trash mobs to get the namer before the other guild? Fuck yes, Ill be pissed we lost the mob. Will I be pissed they out dps'd my guild while we held aggro? Not really, cuz it was my own guilds fault for not taking a wipe, or letting the tank die who was holding aggro, to cause the other guild to hold their own aggro or die.

But its part of the game of fighting for contested mobs. If I wanted to not have any competition to kill a mob and get loot, then Id play EQ2 again or go to WoW, both with heavily scripted raid encounters that are mind numbingly boring.

Its contested for a reason, for people to literally fight for it. You dont like, then stfu and go somewhere else that provides you a safe instance to kill shit.

[...Raren]

You all crying still?

[Holey]

/emo

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Just as you know your guildmates a certain way, and leaders, so do the members of Transcendence. And you end up sticking up for your own, family first kind of thing. It is your responsibility to support your own, and I do not think anyone is wrong for being outraged, or upset over what happened. You buffer, represent, and express not only yours, but your guilds frustrations and feelings. He, as we feel a certain way about it, and by and large I think there has been little to no flaming, merely arguments over certain points, and morality vs legality arguments. The trolls are the ones trying to inflame this.

The spirit and intent of the rules is clear. When someone tries to muddy it up with technicalities or legalese, you don't need a degree to see they're probably in the wrong from the start with regards to the whole reason for the rules existing in the first place. The end doesn't justify the means, might doesn't make right, and legally right should never take precedence over morally right.

My stance remains the same as most... sitting under a mob's spawn point is just asshattery. It is complete and utter idiocy to be required to do that because people cannot act mature, polite, respectful, or courteous. If I am standing in line and someone tries to butt in line, they are getting put down. They had better be one baddass, or one huge mofo to stop me, I do not abide by that shit. And in essence, that is what happened. We were there first, you tried to butt in line, and that is not cool. It is socially unacceptable, and this is a social game. If you were standing in line, and someone did that to you, you would be like Hey wtf. That is what we are saying. Hey wtf.

Heck they had just gotten CT, and couldn't settle for that, HAD to have both. I am all down for competition, but when you are gaining an unfair advantage when it comes to knowing spawns to the minute, cry me a fucking river when someone gets there before you. This whole logging in a few minutes before CT spawns, or the instant Vox spawns, raid force buffed and ready is insane. Running into the temple when Inny was due.. not an hour earlier, within minutes. That is not fair competition. You want innoruuk? Let Remedy have CT and goto hate.

[Trimm]

This whole logging in a few minutes before CT spawns, or the instant Vox spawns, raid force buffed and ready is insane. Running into the temple when Inny was due.. not an hour earlier, within minutes.

This part I agree with. If the +/- 48 hour variance was working correctly, it would be much less an issue.

[sidgb]

The spirit and intent of the rules is clear. When someone tries to muddy it up with technicalities or legalese, you don't need a degree to see they're probably in the wrong from the start with regards to the whole reason for the rules existing in the first place. The end doesn't justify the means, might doesn't make right, and legally right should never take precedence over morally right.

My stance remains the same as most... sitting under a mob's spawn point is just asshattery. It is complete and utter idiocy to be required to do that because people cannot act mature, polite, respectful, or courteous. If I am standing in line and someone tries to butt in line, they are getting put down. They had better be one baddass, or one huge mofo to stop me, I do not abide by that shit. And in essence, that is what happened. We were there first, you tried to butt in line, and that is not cool. It is socially unacceptable, and this is a social game. If you were standing in line, and someone did that to you, you would be like Hey wtf. That is what we are saying. Hey wtf.
.

The rules are actually pretty clear. Some just no not like what they say.

Sooo...

If you go to the DMV and no one is at the counter and they have a sign maked "Line begis here". You decide to leave the room and get chips from the vending machine in the hall. While doing this someone walks past you, up to the sign just as the DMV clerk returns. The DMV clerk calls them over leaving you stannding in the hall with your chips....

Yo gonna kick their ass?

[Yoite]

So, few things that seem odd. Vox spawn the other week, the moment she pops, people start logging in that were camped out in perma....wtf how did you know.

guys...vox just poped....wtf people are logging in already...wtf there are 50 people in the zone now...wtf there are 100 people in here now

what the fuck

So in this other instance, it seems you roll in and snipe CT as he pops then you roll up to hate, and run into inny's room right before he pops.

seriously wtf, how do you fucking fucks know right when this shit is popping when its supposed to be varied spawn times.

[Yoite]

is the varied spawn timer not working? or is it setup so that people can determine the pop time. or are they pulling the info from somewhere, seriously people are jumping on shit the moment it pops.

[mage]

... well if the mob hasn't spawned and you're down to the last few hours on the variance timer, i'd say you're aware of when she's due. einstein

[Yoite]

few hours and within less than 5mins are very different things.

[Noleafclover]

You seem to say you're against leapfrogging, and feel like a guild should be given precedence if they're aimed at a target.

Are you forming agreements with guilds to not do that? Simple solution.



Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. ... better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.

[Harrison]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4687/daaap.jpg

Owned, faggots. Keep on being terrible and...not getting loot!

[Holey]

Owned, faggots. Keep on being terrible and...not getting loot!

your late :/

[Harrison]

I was out of town for 3 days. I missed the shitbaggery by a bunch of no-talent clowns on p99 in the meantime.

[Holey]

I missed you.

[a_forum_troll_001]

I was out of town for 3 days. I missed the shitbaggery by a bunch of no-talent clowns on p99 in the meantime.

soon the rules will be you can claim a raid target from the login screen! :rolleyes:

[Holey]

i claim mobs from fourms.

[Brad_mo123]

All I have to say is my respect for Rogean has came back becuase he called DA on douchebaggery lol. I cant say im in favor of either guild but Rogean did speak truth on the situation, people need to open their eyes.

[...Raren]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4687/daaap.jpg

Hi Supreme!

[Putrid]

I Dislike DA, when ever grouped with em they talk shit on how i play my class, then i loveeee when they die and get pissed at me(being the only one to survive) . My general response is: hey man maybe if you didnt occupy the space in your ass with your head, and focusing on how i play my class, MAYBE just MAYBE you would have never died in the first place.

They are the biggest Asshats on the damned server.

They most certainly aren't respectful at all.

Plus in just this last week they poopsocked twice

http://www.poopsock.com/comic/images/poopsock-logo.gif

[Estharik]

your late :/

you're!

[Falisaty]

Actually there is. Which is what opened the door to this problem. And why I asked.Actually there is. Which is what opened the door to this problem. And why I asked.

Quote:
Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

LOL FAIL

where in the rules does it say "ontop" of his spawn point i clearly see it says "at the spawn point within agro range"... which could be a very large radius

[Bashee_Feind]

few hours and within less than 5mins are very different things.

You look at the clock. You have 3 hours left on a spawn.. Your guild isn't doing anything, so you call a hate raid. Start clearing hate trash. Oh look, it's now 2 hours until window closes. You and your raid move toward raid target spawn, since no trackers have him up yet...You'll sit and wait for him while pulling more trash. He spawns in 5 mins, cool.. You kill him and move to the next.

Another instance.. Vox. You know Vox's window is up in 12 hours. You get people over, buffed up, and logged out to play alts (if they so choose to do so) Vox spawns, your tracker sends out a batphone or shout in whatever voice chat or raid chat you're in at the time. You log over to your raiding character, group up and attack.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about getting ready for a target that's due in a short period of time.

The variances are working to my knowledge. The spawn times have been different. I haven't seen a whole lot of poopsocking lately. But I have seen a bit of mobilization on most of the raiding guilds' parts. But if you know a raid target's window closes in 4 hours, and you want to sit there. Who is to say that you cannot? It could spawn in 1 minute, it could spawn in 4 hours.

I also think the rules are there for a reason. If you want to lay claim on a target, sit within aggro range as rules declare. If you do not want someone to jump in front of you, place your claim. If you're camping Inny with hours left in the window, but you're not within aggro range... Send a tell to the other guild's raid leader, let him know your intentions. Move to the spawn point until you know that the other raiding guild will give you leeway to attempt the target if you're not in aggro range. If they say they won't, just sit on the spawn and stay ready. If you sit on the spawn point, and you're not ready for the target to spawn, and you wipe... Well that's your fault for not being prepared with enough numbers or whatever the case might be.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

You can only try Noleafclover.

And that DMV example is a poor one, we didn't leave the line. If you leave, yes you lose your place.

And mage misses the point. Ignorance is obviously bliss.

[Holey]

Hi Supreme!

NOT EVEN SURPEME :D!:):)

[Holey]

you're!

Sir, the shadowpriest is never late.
Always on time :D
everyones just really really early

[a_forum_troll_001]

You can only try Noleafclover.

And that DMV example is a poor one, we didn't leave the line. If you leave, yes you lose your place.

And mage misses the point. Ignorance is obviously bliss.

yeah they didnt leave the line, they were in the waiting room looking at the line. get it right!

[...Raren]

yeah they didnt leave the line, they were in the waiting room looking at the line. get it right!

This forum turn into a bunch of pussys that cant post under there game name?

[a_forum_troll_001]

i dont raid with either, so i dont really care what you say about me personally.

even if the roles were reversed, my stance remains the same.

LESS QQ, MORE PEWPEW.

[Noleafclover]

This forum turn into a bunch of pussys that cant post under there game name?

As far as I know, you're banned bro, and started a new character. You've said you're playing in other threads. So where's the sig w/ your current char's name?

[...Raren]

As far as I know, you're banned bro, and started a new character. You've said you're playing in other threads. So where's the sig w/ your current char's name?

Lol i dont play anymore

[Noleafclover]

You can only try Noleafclover.

That's kinda my point, is either have the agreements or expect and play with leapfrogging. If you both agree, shouldn't be too hard to come to accord. And if you both don't agree, you have to acknowledge that leapfrogging is not deplored by all.

That's the dichotomy. But it doesn't seem like ya really see it.

[Holey]

Lol i dont play anymore

Yes you do play...
















On a different server!

[...Raren]

Yes you do play...
















On a different server!

Lol oh shit!

[Putrid]

what the hell did u get banned for?

[...Raren]

I did some horrible things :( I do not wish to speak about it. I just hope God can forgive me for all the horrible things i have done on P99.

[nalkin]

Yeah I love how no one can post under their own name. Let me see, you think DA was in the right? omg you are in DA no way. You think Trans was right? omg you are in Trans.

I think abacab should be the raid police. Bring him back and he will make sure the raids go accordingly. He never grieved anyone who didn't deserve it.

[nalkin]

Oh I should say, that abacab would make raiding alot more fun for 80% of the server that doesn't raid. This is situation is sort of funny because the one time DA didn't poopsock they didn't get their loot. It was really funny to hear about the things abacab used to do imo. And most current raid stories are just QQing and not really that funny.

[...Raren]

Oh I should say, that abacab would make raiding alot more fun for 80% of the server that doesn't raid. This is situation is sort of funny because the one time DA didn't poopsock they didn't get their loot. It was really funny to hear about the things abacab used to do imo. And most current raid stories are just QQing and not really that funny.

Raiding is serious business now on P99 its nothing to joke around about anymore!

[Rogean]

He never grieved anyone who didn't deserve it.

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

[Ronas]

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

they evil, they deserved it

[...Raren]

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

Give Abacab a break he treats everyone equally until you fuck him or other people over that dont deserve it! I think those people in EC deserved it if i rememeber correctly they were talking shit to him so then he decided to put them in there place. Then they would send him tells afterwards pleding for him not to kill him again then he usually didnt

[Ronas]

Give Abacab a break he treats everyone equally until you fuck him or other people over that dont deserve it! I think those people in EC deserved it if i rememeber correctly they were talking shit to him so then he decided to put them in there place. Then they would send him tells afterwards pleding for him not to kill him again then he usually didnt

LOL he took the bait. So sucked in to him

[...Raren]

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

Rogean i dont know how your aginst like training and just little stupid shit when you told me yourself in Mumble you use MacroQuest you train people do all this cheating shit in EQLive but someone does it on your server and then its instantly you go to jail dont collect 200 dollars i mean seriously? Lets be real for a minute and give people a chance!

[Abacab niggah]

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

I was simply solving the obesity problem in Norrath due to excessive amounts of ogre warriors, I cured diabetes and shit, I'm a national hero for fucks sake!

[...Raren]

I was simply solving the obesity problem in Norrath due to excessive amounts of ogre warriors, I cured diabetes and shit, I'm a national hero for fucks sake!

Lol

[Lazortag]

Rogean i dont know how your aginst like training and just little stupid shit when you told me yourself in Mumble you use MacroQuest you train people do all this cheating shit in EQLive but someone does it on your server and then its instantly you go to jail dont collect 200 dollars i mean seriously? Lets be real for a minute and give people a chance!

I expect europa members to have better english than this.



(PS: no offense to europa. <3)

[nalkin]

Except the dozens of people in the EC Tunnel killed by Rinna Lightshadow trains.

Ok, I guess I should say, he never trained anyone where:

1) the train wasn't humerous.
or 2) they didn't deserve it.

Maybe at the time some didn't think the trains were funny, but its one of those things you look back on and you are like "hah man remember when abacab ---". Ya gotta admit it was more exciting with him around, plus think how fun itd be with all this raiding going on.

Sorry didn't want to bring this into a whole "free abacab" change of topic. I'm not even sure how I got on the subject anymore to be honest. But what was the subject of this thread anyway? I mean if I were in trans i would claim DA cheated, and if I were in DA i would claim trans cheated, but im not in either, so what can I say here? :(

[Virtuosos]

you can say that KaN were first to engage....


i saw!

[Bubbles]

The obvious solution is to actually let Abacab come back, but only if he rolls a bard named Fansy.

[Holey]

I was simply solving the obesity problem in Norrath due to excessive amounts of ogre warriors, I cured diabetes and shit, I'm a national hero for fucks sake!

Norrath hero brah

[Gwence]

And another point for those with the DT is first aggro mentality.

The first DT is the first DT not necessarily first aggro.

Try going up to Key Master in sky. Melee him. See if he melees you first, before Dt'ing you.

Then you will see what I mean. Death touch is not always instant if you're in melee range. So say there are 2 players sitting near Innys spawn point. One might get crunched and if he /she dies, the next eats the DT. Which is what happened, but shrug.

Don't believe me, go melee Key master.

Key master will melee you unless you agro him from a distance, then he'll run at you for a few sec and DT you before he gets in melee range.

Bad analogy sir!

Also DA sucks, once again it's nothing new!

[Holey]

Key master will melee you unless you agro him from a distance, then he'll run at you for a few sec and DT you before he gets in melee range.

Bad analogy sir!

Also DA sucks, once again it's nothing new!

Key master doesn't DT unless far away sir.
I seen this guy always archery him and yet NEVER gets DT's. o.O

[Gwence]

I dont understand what you're trying to say. You said key master doesnt DT unless you're far away from him (when you agro), which is the same thing I said. But then you said you've seen someone use archery on him and not get DT'd which is not possible, unless he just recently DT'd someone else.

[TigerWoods]

IB has done the same thing to a countless number of guild, especially to WI in Plane of Sky. so suck it.

[Holey]

he DIDNT DT him from FAR away and he DIDN"T even DT anyone B4

[guineapig]

The obvious solution is to actually let Abacab come back, but only if he rolls a bard named Fansy.


This would be classic and I would support this. :p

I would also make a hotkey on all my toons to check every minute is Fansy is in the zone so I can not be in the same zone. :D

[Holey]

This would be classic and I would support this. :p

I would also make a hotkey on all my toons to check every minute is Fansy is in the zone so I can not be in the same zone. :D

LoLuScArEd?
whats wrong with being in the same zone??

[Rogean]

Just to confirm some suspicion:

We located an issue related to some players getting spawn times of raid bosses. We have resolved it.

That's all we're disclosing.

[Regnon]

cough showeq cough.

[...Raren]

Looks like DA is back to cheating and those idiots call me a cheater Lol I was just the one to take the blame for the whole guild GJ retards

[Rogean]

cough showeq cough.

Nothing to do with ShowEQ or Macroquest. The information isn't sent to the client.

[Trimm]

Just to confirm some suspicion:

We located an issue related to some players getting spawn times of raid bosses. We have resolved it.

That's all we're disclosing.

I don't want to press the issue, but just I'd like to just clarify if I may. Was it an issue with the +/- 48 hour variance not working properly, or were players actually knowing the spawns of raid mobs ahead of time? Either way, we appreciate you looking into it.

[Rogean]

It was working properly. They were getting the exact time a mob was due to spawn.

[Trimm]

It was working properly. They were getting the exact time a mob was due to spawn.

That's what we thought. Thank you.

[Otto]

Wow.

I remember when Trans used to bitch and moan that IB had some kind of packet-sniffer that had exact spawn time capabilities or some shit...

Something like that has really existed this whole time? Or were there leaks? Either way, funny DA found a way to get spawn times and then got in trouble for it.

Guess I'll just never understand.

[Harrison]

It was working properly. They were getting the exact time a mob was due to spawn.

Ban the entirety of DA. I don't think anyone would object to harsh punishments for people joining a KNOWN shitbag-cheater guild and them getting the banhammer for it. Just make sure the officers and leadership get a harsher, if not permanent ban, for knowingly acting upon stolen information.

Retroactively take their loot from previously cheated raid mobs, too. Really fuck them in the ass and prove a point to the community, IMO.

[Harrison]

(Not telling you to do those things...I am suggesting those things if you haven't already done them.)

[sidgb]

Well, if the spawn info is not sent to the client then someone inside the dev team had to be passing it along or they were hacked and it was stolen.

If DA was involved and privy to that information then it's kinda sad. I have a lot of friends in DA but I hope there are repercussions if so.

[Harrison]

It's much more likely there was a hole in the DB and they were extracting the spawn time via "hacking it".

[Daldolma]

IMO, to preserve any semblance of fairness on this server, at LEAST one person involved in the leadership of whichever guild was guilty of this should be getting permanently banned. This is straight-up cheating. Whoever called the raids (knowing the exact spawn time) needs to be punished, permanently. Also, assuming it was DA, I think we can stop hearing the thousand posts a day about IB and how they cheat. You pull shit like this, you have no ground to stand on, no matter what IB does. And I've never heard of IB doing anything as bad.

[Trimm]

Just quoting the server rules.

- Any type of program or script that gives you an unfair advantage (eg. MacroQuest, ShowEQ or packet modification) will result in an instant ban with no lenience. Cheating will be ruled with an iron first regardless of who you are.

[Noleafclover]

That's pretty intense, but not altogether unexpected, if it is DA. I was wondering how they were getting so lucky.

They start camping vox and naggy at the spawn point just a couple hours before the mob spawns. Lucky day! Come to Inny 10 minutes before 'cause they get cocky they haven't been found out yet, I guess.

Talking circumstantially here, without knowledge of spawn windows.

Anyway, glad the issue is taken care of. Hope punishments were handed to whoever.

[...Raren]

You know who i feel bad for? Bronson he comes on the forums on a daiy basis and sticks up for DA and then DA goes and does this :( All the fighting Bronson has done for DA. What a let down. I think Durison owes IB a apology for coming on the boards and calling them cheaters and the whole time it was the leaders of DA cheating :( You for real Durison? Seriously? Come on the boards now and defend yourself tell us some sorry excuse! We all want to hear about it!

[Starklen]

Look on the bright side, at least they aren't crashing zones again and getting the mobs despawned.

[yaaaflow]

what a completely shocking turn of events!

[Pheer]

legit, much respect

[Harrison]

I'm waiting for them to warp this into some twisted fucked-up retarded shit. They've not failed us yet in being so far up DA's ass that they ignore facts and still think DA is "legit".

[Abacab niggah]

Remember back in the other Dark Ascension thread where I said the following:

Let me shed some light

Members of DA, IB, WI, Divinity, Trans, and any other guild use showEQ

I've been outside splitpaw with MY showEQ up and I've systematically watched people from those above guilds make B-lines to placeholder mobs and quillmane specifically. Keep in mind none of these characters were druids, rangers or bards so they were not tracking via skill.

I've been in teamspeak with several guilds as they pop a rogue up in hide and put on showEQ to track for Inny/CT, this from Transcendence as a guild but I won't name names.

I've been in guilds where people two boxed, and have several instances where those main guilds I've posted above have dual logged clerics on to rez raids after failed attempts due to having one logged out in a safe spot.

I've seen first hand people from those above guilds exploit merchants with rechargeable items, (Hell I was in IB vent one day when they were doing this with leatherfoot skull caps) and abuse the sell bug to duplicate platinum and run shady tricks to duplicate god loot.

None of your guilds are clean, every guild on this server has been guilty of duping, exploiting, zone crashing, MQing, ShowEQing, two boxing and otherwise sketchy shit.

So before you go "Oh it's Abacab don't believe him!" at least I admit to using showEQ, at least I admit to login server bugging to log on random chracters, at least I admit to training, and exploiting systems on various occasions.

So in short, I cheat, you cheat, we all cheat in some form or another so don't pretend to be holier than thou, because we know you're just doing it to avoid a permaban

Then people like Wrei, Pheer, Harrison said my word wasn't trustworthy enough and my claims were baseless?

Yeah y'all can go fuck yourself

[Harrison]

Abacab, I said G13's claims were baseless.

We've spoken enough that I give a lot of what you say a good deal of credibility. I wish you still played because of how much entertainment you brought me on a daily basis lol

[Pheer]

Remember back in the other Dark Ascension thread where I said the following:



Then people like Wrei, Pheer, Harrison said my word wasn't trustworthy enough and my claims were baseless?

Yeah y'all can go fuck yourself

so because its found out that someone was exploiting one of the only things you didnt list out/accuse anyone of it confirms everything else you said?


noobface

[Abacab niggah]

so because its found out that someone was exploiting one of the only things you didnt list out/accuse anyone of it confirms everything else you said?


noobface

So you're saying I didn't accuse people of running showEQ and packetsniff?

[Harrison]

A packet sniffer wouldn't have gotten the spawn times, nor would ShowEQ.

Regardless, if DA went unscathed without bans for their blatant douchebaggedness...ugh.

[Abacab niggah]

A packet sniffer wouldn't have gotten the spawn times, nor would ShowEQ.

Regardless, if DA went unscathed without bans for their blatant douchebaggedness...ugh.

Packet sniffers can, trust me on that.

Besides the point I railed on for 10 pages in that thread calling these guilds cheaters, and the members of those guilds liars and conspirators, and y'all just thought I was just pulling those "baseless" claims out of my ass

Fast forward to now when several people are about to get IP raped for cheating by manipulating packet data to show spawns, now it's believable? Regardless if I named the actual program or not is very minute and failing to look at the big picture and nature of my rant which was:

"Everyone cheats"

and that was the moral of my rant

[Virtuosos]

-shrug- abacab's big long quote of things are mostly true, just people too naive to believe it.

i heard a player in one of the big guilds actually sit there and ask why it is he can see _'s in names now and i literally face-palmed myself

[Bones]

i heard a player in one of the big guilds actually sit there and ask why it is he can see _'s in names now and i literally face-palmed myself
That is pretty lol

[Ghaz]

Ignoring all you're pointless b.s. arguments between each other. Why is nothing being done to DA's leadership? They had to have known

[...Raren]

We want justice!

[Theldios]

Packet sniffers can, trust me on that.

Besides the point I railed on for 10 pages in that thread calling these guilds cheaters, and the members of those guilds liars and conspirators, and y'all just thought I was just pulling those "baseless" claims out of my ass

Fast forward to now when several people are about to get IP raped for cheating by manipulating packet data to show spawns, now it's believable? Regardless if I named the actual program or not is very minute and failing to look at the big picture and nature of my rant which was:

"Everyone cheats"

and that was the moral of my rant

I am sorry but I do not cheat so not everyone cheats

[Theldios]

Ignoring all you're pointless b.s. arguments between each other. Why is nothing being done to DA's leadership? They had to have known

Perhaps it was not what you all are ASSuming it to be. The admin did not say what was being done just that it had been fixed. This does not mean they were using any 3rd party program at all. it could have been something else like another admin telling them and that leak has been plugged to divine intervention. Face the facts. The only factas that you have it that there was a leak somewhere somehow you have no idea how it was acomplished and are making basless acusations as to the how it was acomp,lished. Until and admin or someone from the accused party steps forward and tells us what happened we really do not know. So the off with the head additude is really uncalled for till we know the facts.

[Ghaz]

Perhaps it was not what you all are ASSuming it to be. The admin did not say what was being done just that it had been fixed. This does not mean they were using any 3rd party program at all. it could have been something else like another admin telling them and that leak has been plugged to divine intervention. Face the facts. The only factas that you have it that there was a leak somewhere somehow you have no idea how it was acomplished and are making basless acusations as to the how it was acomp,lished. Until and admin or someone from the accused party steps forward and tells us what happened we really do not know. So the off with the head additude is really uncalled for till we know the facts.

Hopefully they're all banned and never return to defend themselves

[Daldolma]

Fact: they were using information they should not have had to gain an advantage in game.
Fact: there was no legitimate way to gain this information.

That's all you need. Wherever the information originated, you know it was illegitimately obtained. And you know that whoever in DA chose to use it had to have known this as well, seeing as how the information is by definition against the server rules. This could not have been confused for fair play.

The "we don't know who got it" defense doesn't work, either. As far as I'm concerned, the GMs should threaten to disband DA as a whole and ban every single leader and officer unless DA self-corrects and hands over whoever was responsible for the information. They can't pretend they don't know -- they never would have moved on the target unless someone with the ability to call a raid knew. All you need to find out is who called the raids.

This bullshit is WAY more damaging to the server than anything Abacab or Raren ever did. I don't know if this is still just "breaking news" or what, but if I were IB, I'd be going apeshit right now. They took the brunt of exploit accusations from DA for literally months with no evidence, and now DA got caught with their hand in the cookie jar just straight-up cheating, no bones about it. Way worse than ShowEQ, boxing, or anything like that. They were stealing end-game raid encounters.

[lauremore]

Fact: they were using information they should not have had to gain an advantage in game.
Fact: there was no legitimate way to gain this information.

That's all you need. Wherever the information originated, you know it was illegitimately obtained. And you know that whoever in DA chose to use it had to have known this as well, seeing as how the information is by definition against the server rules. This could not have been confused for fair play.

The "we don't know who got it" defense doesn't work, either. As far as I'm concerned, the GMs should threaten to disband DA as a whole and ban every single leader and officer unless DA self-corrects and hands over whoever was responsible for the information. They can't pretend they don't know -- they never would have moved on the target unless someone with the ability to call a raid knew. All you need to find out is who called the raids.

This bullshit is WAY more damaging to the server than anything Abacab or Raren ever did. I don't know if this is still just "breaking news" or what, but if I were IB, I'd be going apeshit right now. They took the brunt of exploit accusations from DA for literally months with no evidence, and now DA got caught with their hand in the cookie jar just straight-up cheating, no bones about it. Way worse than ShowEQ, boxing, or anything like that. They were stealing end-game raid encounters.


This ^


Honestly, who the fuck wants to cheat on a ten year old game that they have played already. Seriously, DA needs to go back to wow and suck some blizz dev cock. It is bullshit they are still on this server. You want a fast way to lose credibility and population? Let people cheat, knowing that everyone else now knows and see how fast people go bye bye.

[Barfight]

I'm grateful to the devs that they have made this public and are taking action to fix it. I trust that the offenders, whoever they are, will have proper disciplinary action taken against them. Cheating can't be tolerated or else it will proliferate.

[Starklen]

Anyone seen durison online today?

[Supreme]

Someone is leaking info.

The script does not provide any kind of client side packet for ShowEQ or MQ to decrypt.

[a_forum_troll_001]

i feel more bad for the poor souls who were tasked with keeping tabs on zones with high profile targets, all that work for nothing since they found a mystical backdoor in a router to showEQ and internet that pooped out spawntimes in little fortune cookies. keeping track of when a mob dies in relation to when it repops is hard guyz.

[Pheer]

Someone is leaking info.

The script does not provide any kind of client side packet for ShowEQ or MQ to decrypt.

if its just someone leaking info the only way to "correct" the problem would be to remove whatever staff member was doing so

[Abacab niggah]

I am sorry but I do not cheat so not everyone cheats

You're a fucking liar

It comes upon opportunity, just because you haven't cheated as of yet does not men you wont if opportunity arises.

It's like this, let's say I'm not a thief cause I've never stole anything and because I have a fear of punishment if caught. Now I'm walking down the street and I see a wallet on the ground with an ID and over $800 dollars in cash and no one is around to claim that wallet.

Chances are you'd take the money and continue on walking, effectively making you a thief, same situation here if you had insider information that would give you an advantage by third party programs or exploit and no one was around to see you do it, you'd most likely use the program/exploit.

[Otto]

This bullshit is WAY more damaging to the server than anything Abacab or Raren ever did. I don't know if this is still just "breaking news" or what, but if I were IB, I'd be going apeshit right now. They took the brunt of exploit accusations from DA for literally months with no evidence, and now DA got caught with their hand in the cookie jar just straight-up cheating, no bones about it. Way worse than ShowEQ, boxing, or anything like that. They were stealing end-game raid encounters.

If Raren and Abacab are gone for good, DA should be to. I don't even need to try and defend that claim, because if you don't agree with it you're just straight up retarded and have no respect for this server.

[Hasbinbad]

If Raren and Abacab are gone for good, DA should be to. I don't even need to try and defend that claim, because if you don't agree with it you're just straight up retarded and have no respect for this server.
So wait.. ..you're asking for abacab to come back?