Coth Ducking

[Juevento]

I've noticed over the past few days certain members of the guild Taken expressing their discontent with the practice of having a Mage tracker and then the said Mage tracker casting the spell Call of the Hero only to duck and interrupt the spell if the raid mob does not spawn. While I applaud your efforts to rid the server of this absurd practice, I remain a bit perplexed as to the source of your objections to this tactic since

YOU ARE THE STUPID DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKERS THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE SHIT. YOU, TAKEN, DRAGGED THE SHITTY RAID SCENE ON THIS SERVER INTO EVEN MORE OF A SHITTY PLACE WHEN YOU "WON" AN FFA NAGGY BY COTH DUCKING THE LAST HOUR. THEN LAST WEEK YOU WERE COTH DUCKING FUCKING SHITTY ASS TALENDOR 1 HOUR INTO WINDOW.

SO YOU ALL CAN GET FUCKED. YOU ARE ALL SHITTY ASS SCUMBAGS WHO WILL RESORT TO ALL SORTS OF SHITTY BEHAVIOR TO GET MOBS.

[quido]

lol

[arsenalpow]

was this an attempt to jump start RnF?

[arsenalpow]

was this an attempt to jump start RnF?

[toosweet]

This practice is Taken Officer Approved
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/067/a/2/transformers_oc___renova__by_evangeline73-d57xa0l.jpg

[Grimjaw]

Mage tracker casting the spell Call of the Hero only to duck and interrupt the spell if the raid mob does not spawn
jesus Christ.... or you could come play red!

[Pullyn]

Haha, how do you really feel? On a side note, you missed out on some prime pirating today man. Sunk like 4 more clippers, 2 of them from our faction, alot of tears shed over that shit.

[Artaenc]

damn dude, way to call an entire guild out.

[Grimey]

Just to be clear, Juevento, I was the one saying how dumb it was to do. TMO's mage that was there started doing duck casting and said it sucked but he was "required to do it". I have the nice logs of it at home. So take your misguided anger elsewhere.

damn dude, way to call an entire guild out.

Just stop before you get hurt.

[Swish]

post fraps up

[Manticmuse]

It sucks but required to do it? What a life...coth ducking for the man. So much sickness in here. Just play the game how you want, and if u get less dragon loot YOU ALREADY WON.

[Troubled]

post fraps up

http://i.imgur.com/trjPLpT.jpg

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

LMAO

[Thulack]

I've noticed over the past few days certain members of the guild Taken expressing their discontent with the practice of having a Mage tracker and then the said Mage tracker casting the spell Call of the Hero only to duck and interrupt the spell if the raid mob does not spawn. While I applaud your efforts to rid the server of this absurd practice, I remain a bit perplexed as to the source of your objections to this tactic since

YOU ARE THE STUPID DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKERS THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE SHIT. YOU, TAKEN, DRAGGED THE SHITTY RAID SCENE ON THIS SERVER INTO EVEN MORE OF A SHITTY PLACE WHEN YOU "WON" AN FFA NAGGY BY COTH DUCKING THE LAST HOUR. THEN LAST WEEK YOU WERE COTH DUCKING FUCKING SHITTY ASS TALENDOR 1 HOUR INTO WINDOW.

SO YOU ALL CAN GET FUCKED. YOU ARE ALL SHITTY ASS SCUMBAGS WHO WILL RESORT TO ALL SORTS OF SHITTY BEHAVIOR TO GET MOBS.

Someone in taken fuck your mom or something? You have the worse fucking attitude in the game. I see you ingame and just laugh cause i feel bad for how butthurt you are at Taken. Why don't you worry about your own guild and stop being obsessed with Taken. They must have rejected your app or something when you were level 20 huh. Get over it already.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Taken held me down and spit in my mouth

[Thulack]

Taken held me down and spit in my mouth

Actually if i remember right from his rant the one day in Kith. Taken beat him out on a Ragefire while he was Fapping to a picture from his Family reunion and thats why he hates them.

[kotton05]

This kind of hatred I love, I agree it's stupid as fuck. I'd rather sock a target where at least there was some interesting conversations involved.

[Juevento]

Actually if i remember right from his rant the one day in Kith. Taken beat him out on a Ragefire while he was Fapping to a picture from his Family reunion and thats why he hates them.

Nice try with the deflection from the topic at hand. Mostly I tease Taken game for the lol's.

But for real, you guys always take every tactical measure to its absurd extreme in the pursuit of pixels often times doing away with common courtesies. I distinctly remember back when poop socking on a spawn was a thing you morons would camp 40+ people on innys spawn. You guys are as responsible for the crappy raid scene as TMO because you stoop to their level and then find a way to go lower.

With this coth ducking business, you have ruined any legitimate chance at getting FFA mobs. Assholery begets more assholery and now all the neck beard guilds have to follow suit and we end up being dragged to a place where mages are expected to sit at a spawn and spam coth on a puller sitting at the zone for up to 16 hours. Anything less is just a waste of that tracker and guilds time. It's amazing how we got to that place. And more than a little sad.

And yet, you (Taken) have the gall to start complaining about this practice when you inflicted it on the server. I hope you see how rediculous that all is.

[HippoNipple]

Sitting around duck casting for 15 hours for a 1/3 chance for your guild to kill Talendor 3 years into Kunark. Why don't you just kill yourselves?

[Gaffin 7.0]

Sitting around duck casting for 15 hours for a 1/3 chance for your guild to kill Talendor 3 years into Kunark. Why don't you just kill yourselves?

lmao so true

cant believe i use to sit around and do it, only way i did was high as fuck on drugs its so boring

[Susvain2]

I've noticed over the past few days certain members of the guild Taken expressing their discontent with the practice of having a Mage tracker and then the said Mage tracker casting the spell Call of the Hero only to duck and interrupt the spell if the raid mob does not spawn. While I applaud your efforts to rid the server of this absurd practice, I remain a bit perplexed as to the source of your objections to this tactic since

YOU ARE THE STUPID DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKERS THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE SHIT. YOU, TAKEN, DRAGGED THE SHITTY RAID SCENE ON THIS SERVER INTO EVEN MORE OF A SHITTY PLACE WHEN YOU "WON" AN FFA NAGGY BY COTH DUCKING THE LAST HOUR. THEN LAST WEEK YOU WERE COTH DUCKING FUCKING SHITTY ASS TALENDOR 1 HOUR INTO WINDOW.

SO YOU ALL CAN GET FUCKED. YOU ARE ALL SHITTY ASS SCUMBAGS WHO WILL RESORT TO ALL SORTS OF SHITTY BEHAVIOR TO GET MOBS.

I mean, this guy Juevento is a tremendous faggot, he is correct in this situations

[Ravager]

I mean, this guy Juevento is a tremendous faggot, he is correct in this situations

He's a bundle of sticks or twigs bound together as fuel? That's disconcerting.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Likely a meatball of sorts

[Locust]

Taken needs to move to class C due to their demonstrated willingness to use extreme measures of competition

[Hitpoint]

Taken needs to move to class C due to their demonstrated willingness to use extreme measures of competition

Yes.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

http://i.imgur.com/trjPLpT.jpg

lol are you sure that's coth and not invis or gate? They have the same particles, don't they?

[Detoxx]

Just to be clear, Juevento, I was the one saying how dumb it was to do. TMO's mage that was there started doing duck casting and said it sucked but he was "required to do it". I have the nice logs of it at home. So take your misguided anger elsewhere.



Just stop before you get hurt.

I also have logs of IB and TMO saying they will not CoTH duck, and Taken saying fuck that pretty much so....

[Ella`Ella]

Just to be clear, Juevento, I was the one saying how dumb it was to do. TMO's mage that was there started doing duck casting and said it sucked but he was "required to do it". I have the nice logs of it at home. So take your misguided anger elsewhere.



Just stop before you get hurt.

Please post those logs, because both myself and Raden have been on the record in TeamSpeak, Skype with Hoku and GM's, and within guildchat and forums saying that we do not ask our mages to do this regardless of what our competition is doing. If we do have a mage doing this, he's only doing it because he absolutely wants to.

I also don't believe IB does this, either.

[Daldaen]

RNF doesn't really care about facts or common sense. But...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1613248#post1613248

Sign up with the Phiren plan to ban Mage tracking outside of Trakanon (cause lol those trains would be a sight the behold). Set up some boundaries in each zone where people can stand. Make it a foot race and pray for Velious to resolve some of these issues.

[Freakish]

Please post those logs, because both myself and Raden have been on the record in TeamSpeak, Skype with Hoku and GM's, and within guildchat and forums saying that we do not ask our mages to do this regardless of what our competition is doing. If we do have a mage doing this, he's only doing it because he absolutely wants to.

I also don't believe IB does this, either.

When we were doing FFA Nagafen a week ago or so Taken had two mages running CoTH from the moment he entered window. Shadowgrey (IB) and I asked if Taken would be willing to make it a non-mage race and were basically told to get fucked. They were ducking from the minute he entered window. Neither IB or TMO resorted to duck cothing. If they did, it was after I left.

Anytime i'm tracking and I see a new mage come to help track they're always asking "Do we have to duck coth?" and the answer is always no. Fuck that. I'm too casual to duck coth for 16 hours.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

So let's all just keep QQing about this every week and not try to hammer out an official agreement in a forum like, oh, say... Raid Discussion?

Seems like we're all doing a good job with that. After all, why institute change when you can sit back, point fingers and bitch and moan, amirite?!

[Eponymous Anonymous]

And before you say it again, your private vent and guildchat circle jerks mean nothing to most of us. Post something concrete for all to see or shut the fuck up.

[Hitpoint]

We don't all need to agree on some formal agreement. It's only one guild forcing everyone else to do it. Convince them to stop, and it will end.

[kotton05]

And before you say it again, your private vent and guildchat circle jerks mean nothing to most of us. Post something concrete for all to see or shut the fuck up.

Whoa bro at least when I do a handstand my stomach doesn't hit me in the face... You clearly off your meds

[Eponymous Anonymous]

We don't all need to agree on some formal agreement. It's only one guild forcing everyone else to do it. Convince them to stop, and it will end.

So you'd rather not come to an agreement that everyone can be held accountable to, so that when it's convenient for you guys you can do it at will, sorta like how that noble agreement turned out.

Whoa bro at least when I do a handstand my stomach doesn't hit me in the face... You clearly off your meds

Please. I bet you can't even see your feet let alone do a handstand.

[kotton05]

Great comeback. Clearly you was born on the highway because that's where most accidents happen.. People like you need something in "raid discussion" to make it the official thing. How could you be so dense..?

[Grimey]

[Sat Sep 06 14:43:38 2014] Ferment says, 'Fuck'
[Sat Sep 06 14:43:45 2014] Ferment says, 'Well at least hes running back now'
[Sat Sep 06 14:43:52 2014] Ferment says, 'Doo dee dooo'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:08 2014] Ferment says, 'Why did I hit the key beside duck'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:11 2014] Ferment says, 'Instead of duck'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:24 2014] Jadani tells the guild, '25 shaman - anyone wanna group?'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:40 2014] Ferment says, 'Remember kids, duck cothing sucks'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:42 2014] Jadani tells the guild, 'or tell me where to group at =p'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:49 2014] You say, 'its why im not doing it'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:50 2014] Jadani tells the guild, 'who summoned? TMO?'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:52 2014] Beardead tells the guild, 'soldunga'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:54 2014] Ferment says, 'Fair enough'
[Sat Sep 06 14:44:57 2014] Ferment says, 'I almost dont want to now..'
[Sat Sep 06 14:45:01 2014] Ferment says, 'Unfortunately for all of us'
[Sat Sep 06 14:45:05 2014] Ferment says, 'We're obligated to'

You will notice Ferment accidently coth'd because he can't seem to find the duck key.

[kotton05]

Did ferment start it..

[Colgate]

wow

this makes my top 5 for most pathetic/cringeworthy things i've ever seen

i sincerely cannot believe you people do this

[Tewaz]

I am so amazed that none of you have taken a step back and looked at how pathetic you are.

[kotton05]

I've never done it myself, but i think it's the dumbest shit ever and believe it should be stopped lol

[arsenalpow]

We don't all need to agree on some formal agreement. It's only one guild forcing everyone else to do it. Convince them to stop, and it will end.

I've never done it myself, but i think it's the dumbest shit ever and believe it should be stopped lol

Taken isn't the only guild doing it, they were just the first. It was eventually going to reach that level though. Pixels have a way of doing weird shit to people. Dumbest shit ever? How about VP training? That's infinitely stupider.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

Great comeback. Clearly you was born on the highway because that's where most accidents happen.. People like you need something in "raid discussion" to make it the official thing. How could you be so dense..?

You can't come up with anything worthwhile to add to the discussion so you resort to attempts at personal attacks (which I find hilarious, by the way). I understand you're mentally deficient so while I'm done talking to you, i'll leave you with this final thought to ponder, maybe you can understand it: at least I stick to my ideals and don't sellout for pixels.

Internal TMO ventrilo conversations and guild chat do not make things official on P99. You want to convince guilds to not coth-duck while tracking mobs? You better make sure they are certain you're not going to do it also. Not participating in a public agreement makes no steps towards this. We have no reason to trust you unless you make it official.

[kotton05]

VP training indefinitely more fun and involved. I never saw you try chest, how is that even close to coth ducking... -_-

[arsenalpow]

VP training indefinitely more fun and involved. I never saw you try chest, how is that even close to coth ducking... -_-

How is coth ducking (a completely stupid thing done to attain pixels) as dumb as training a competing guild in VP (a completely stupid thing done to attain pixels) ?

VP training did the most harm to this server

[arsenalpow]

Also imo coth ducking is preferential to the shitshow that would be the zoneline foot race featuring x players from y guilds going to FTE z target. At least with coth being the default you can keep tabs on the 2 players allowed to be in the vicinity as opposed to the need to have constant fraps going to make sure the person who got FTE was at a zoneline to start and not too close and etc etc.

[Hitpoint]

Taken isn't the only guild doing it, they were just the first. It was eventually going to reach that level though. Pixels have a way of doing weird shit to people. Dumbest shit ever? How about VP training? That's infinitely stupider.

They are the first guild doing it at every target. For a while Tmo/IB weren't even moving mages to targets until Taken did. Now we do every time, because Taken does every time. And we definitely aren't the first to duck.

[kotton05]

How is coth ducking (a completely stupid thing done to attain pixels) as dumb as training a competing guild in VP (a completely stupid thing done to attain pixels) ?

VP training did the most harm to this server

Remember I came into that rule set and decided to give them a dose of what they we're doing, did I ever kill a BDA who accidentally zoned in?

[sanforce]

VP training was loads of fun, even being on the receiving end. P1999 needs no-CSR zones come Velious.

[Hitpoint]

Also, you don't need to have constant fraps going for the zoneline race. Fraps can work on a loop where, when you turn it on it records x amount of time before you turned it on.

I bet nobody even has fraps at most of these races. Just the threat of fraps is enough. The problem is that you have to assume the other trackers are frapsing. The zoneline race is perfect. It polices itself, it's fair, and it isn't nearly as tedious.

[arsenalpow]

They are the first guild doing it at every target. For a while Tmo/IB weren't even moving mages to targets until Taken did. Now we do every time, because Taken does every time. And we definitely aren't the first to duck.

TMO/IB want max pixels. If coth ducking is what it takes you'll do it and you'll like it. Don't blame this on Taken, they found the strategy first but like I said the most effective means of gaining FTE would eventually be found. If we change to a stupid fucking footrace some other idiotic strat will become the norm. The fix is to stop the overlap of C and R by either removing FFA altogether allowing for FFA only during repops or make all FFA targets for the week repop at once to make it so people have to choose.

[Hitpoint]

TMO/IB want max pixels. If coth ducking is what it takes you'll do it and you'll like it. Don't blame this on Taken, they found the strategy first but like I said the most effective means of gaining FTE would eventually be found. If we change to a stupid fucking footrace some other idiotic strat will become the norm. The fix is to stop the overlap of C and R by either removing FFA altogether allowing for FFA only during repops or make all FFA targets for the week repop at once to make it so people have to choose.

Nah, footrace is fine.

[arsenalpow]

Different doesn't mean better

[kotton05]

TMO/IB want max pixels. If coth ducking is what it takes you'll do it and you'll like it. Don't blame this on Taken, they found the strategy first but like I said the most effective means of gaining FTE would eventually be found. If we change to a stupid fucking footrace some other idiotic strat will become the norm. The fix is to stop the overlap of C and R by either removing FFA altogether allowing for FFA only during repops or make all FFA targets for the week repop at once to make it so people have to choose.

training was the most fun, it incorporated all sorts of classes and people to help, unlike coth ducking.

i'm just supporting the idea its dumb when there other rules in place... that are just run for fte. seems your own guildy shares the same idea. i doubt bda/taken dont want max pixels either... hell with the new system you get free pixels.. you surely track and batphone just like us. i'm sure many others agree on the stupidity of coth ducking, class c/r alike. Having FFA targets is not the issue.

[arsenalpow]

training was the most fun, it incorporated all sorts of classes and people to help, unlike coth ducking.

i'm just supporting the idea its dumb when there other rules in place... that are just run for fte. seems your own guildy shares the same idea. i doubt bda/taken dont want max pixels either... hell with the new system you get free pixels.. you surely track and batphone just like us. i'm sure many others agree on the stupidity of coth ducking, class c/r alike. Having FFA targets is not the issue.

If we (BDA) wanted max pixels then we wouldn't have been the spearhead for the rotation. You're an idiot.

[kotton05]

spear head?? you still respond for ffa targets... your actions contradict what you're saying.

[Oleris]

http://i.imgur.com/89HANHg.gif

[Juevento]

Racing for mobs in general is pretty fucking stupid. But that's not what's at issue.

TMO and IB are only doing what pixel whores will do and following suit. There is an allegory about a scorpion and a frog that comes to mind. BDA for example sees coth ducking going on an walks away from contesting the FFA mob because it's 2014 and we have better shit to do.

Taken are the instigators. They fucked up the FFA raid scene. They are the bad guys here. They are clearly the ones that need to be stopped from coth ducking. TMO and IB don't do this during class c mobs and have stated they will not do it unless provoked into it by Taken starting it up. And again remember they are pixel whores. They will do what they do.

What would really solve the problem is for Sirken and Derubael to stop jerking each other off and just say no mages on the spawn point. You guys are in a leadership position for this server. Fucking lead or step down.

[Colgate]

love when people say eq pvp is dumb and ruins the game while they play on a server where this is the endgame

8)

[arsenalpow]

love when people say eq pvp is dumb and ruins the game while they play on a server where this is the endgame

8)

from what i've heard red is a bunch of hand holding these days

[Tewaz]

Making a list of rules about what people can and can't do when a mob is in window, lining up trackers, mages, FTE spam buttons...

Just make the zone pvp when the mob is in window.

[YendorLootmonkey]

spear head?? you still respond for ffa targets... your actions contradict what you're saying.

Don't be fucking dense. If BDA wanted MAX pixels, we certainly wouldn't have championed a rotation system where we only had an opportunity for a particular raid target once every X weeks.

Responding for FFA targets does not cancel out Chest and the rest of the BDA raid reps getting flamed left and right (for, what, 3-4 weeks?) for working towards a rotation system to spread out some enjoyment of the raid scene to other guilds without the huge barrier to entry created by unemployed neckbeards who are seemingly 30 seconds from their computer 24/7.

Class C says they're all about "competition" and if the rest of us want pixels we should have to "compete" for them. But when FE had the chance to have three guilds competing in VP for all that extra "competition" and "fun" that would be, of course they said "fuck that!" Because, you know, that's now a 33% chance of winning the FTE lottery instead of 50%. And if that wasn't contradictory enough, they then sold out and merged with the very guild that FE was created to compete directly against.

You want contradiction of actions vs. rhetoric? There you go... eat it up.

[Kingore]

As a raid leader of TMO I have told every single person who uses a mage that we do not have to CoTH duck and I would rather lose the target than them have to sit there and spam cast/duck for hours on end.

Chest - you are a massive faggot and continue to show you are in this thread. TMO and IB agreed to outlaw CoTH tracking in Class C mobs and want to lower the amount of effort to track/kill mobs, not raise it. You are the true scum of the server, and it will be a better place once you leave.

[kotton05]

Don't be fucking dense. If BDA wanted MAX pixels, we certainly wouldn't have championed a rotation system where we only had an opportunity for a particular raid target once every X weeks.

Responding for FFA targets does not cancel out Chest and the rest of the BDA raid reps getting flamed left and right (for, what, 3-4 weeks?) for working towards a rotation system to spread out some enjoyment of the raid scene to other guilds without the huge barrier to entry created by unemployed neckbeards who are seemingly 30 seconds from their computer 24/7.

Class C says they're all about "competition" and if the rest of us want pixels we should have to "compete" for them. But when FE had the chance to have three guilds competing in VP for all that extra "competition" and "fun" that would be, of course they said "fuck that!" Because, you know, that's now a 33% chance of winning the FTE lottery instead of 50%. And if that wasn't contradictory enough, they then sold out and merged with the very guild that FE was created to compete directly against.

You want contradiction of actions vs. rhetoric? There you go... eat it up.

Championed a rotation... you make it sound so heroic. I do pras it to have finally happened, that was the ultimate goal of FE to lock TMO out and make a rotation...Finally the Gm's stepped in and helped.

also

I dont think you understand how the merger happened but its ok, you sound angry, this is about coth ducking, not the "competition" of an old guild that was the only guild to stand against the old TMO under Zee's control with the old rules that you guys couldn't do... happened once Sloan and Zee was out of the picture. Also you do want pixels so dont play it off like you guys are any less devoted to this game than any class-c guild. Derailing this into anger over class c vs class r is stupid..... sigh.

But you do contradict.. eat it.

[Juevento]

Yendor and Chest are too entrenched in their TMO hatred to understand the proper target of flames in this particular thread is Taken.

Please just ignore them.

[mishurza]

Personally, I think if Taken wants to undertake this tactic, more power to them. If the extra effort gives them an edge over their competition because the competition isn't willing to go to that effort, why should the competition get to ban that tactic? Man up or shut up. Personally, I'm surprised so many people are for banning this. Yeah it sucks big donkey nuts. Not gonna deny that. So does every other form of tracking in EQ. We don't have a requirement to CoTH duck or anything like that in TMO, but we do require trackers to be vigilant and at the keyboard. Staring at a blank wall doing nothing is the very definition of boring to me. In a game environment where seconds or even fractions of a second is the difference between getting the shiny treasure and not, combined with new measures to prevent auto-firing, CoTH ducking was the inevitable evolution. I'm very happy that Class C was able to come to an agreement on how to race for mobs that didn't involve CoTH ducking, but FFA stand for Free For All last I checked.

If we are gonna trash on Taken, let's talk about how they avoid getting punished for being ass-hats at Sev.

If the trolls could have focused on the fact that Catherin was cheating instead of whatever personal issues she may have, maybe something would have come of that too.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I dont think you understand how the merger happened but its ok, you sound angry, this is about coth ducking, not the "competition" of an old guild blah blah blah

Not angry, and I don't care how the merger happened. The fact remains you all wanted "competition", even to the point of badgering BDA to come over to Class C (which you knew would never happen, so it was safe flamebait to lay out there) but instead of increasing "competition" with 3 actual guilds, FE always decided to latch on to another guild. Just pointing out the pot is calling the kettle black as a little side bar topic here.

Sorry to interrupt your topic here, Juevento... carry on!

[kotton05]

The underlying bitterness of how most of FE picked to merge with TMO once their super trolls/guild leader quit is strong with this one. ^_^ why you making it sound negative when it was a good thing?

Guess things will never change. Except when you're forced to track with mages and CoTH duck for hours during FFA mobs(I've never done it but those who have I'm sorry)

[Hitpoint]

As a raid leader of TMO I have told every single person who uses a mage that we do not have to CoTH duck and I would rather lose the target than them have to sit there and spam cast/duck for hours on end.


I've told the same thing to our mages. It's an unofficial rule that we do not coth duck. If our mages are coth ducking then it's because they choose to at their own detriment. Maybe I could understand it if the window came down to the last 30 minutes, but even then I've never specifically told a mage to do it.

[Swish]

wow

this makes my top 5 for most pathetic/cringeworthy things i've ever seen

i sincerely cannot believe you people do this


I am so amazed that none of you have taken a step back and looked at how pathetic you are.

[sanforce]

Personally, I think if Taken wants to undertake this tactic, more power to them. If the extra effort gives them an edge over their competition because the competition isn't willing to go to that effort, why should the competition get to ban that tactic? Man up or shut up. Personally, I'm surprised so many people are for banning this. Yeah it sucks big donkey nuts. Not gonna deny that. So does every other form of tracking in EQ. We don't have a requirement to CoTH duck or anything like that in TMO, but we do require trackers to be vigilant and at the keyboard. Staring at a blank wall doing nothing is the very definition of boring to me. In a game environment where seconds or even fractions of a second is the difference between getting the shiny treasure and not, combined with new measures to prevent auto-firing, CoTH ducking was the inevitable evolution. I'm very happy that Class C was able to come to an agreement on how to race for mobs that didn't involve CoTH ducking, but FFA stand for Free For All last I checked.

If we are gonna trash on Taken, let's talk about how they avoid getting punished for being ass-hats at Sev.

If the trolls could have focused on the fact that Catherin was cheating instead of whatever personal issues she may have, maybe something would have come of that too.

I agree, more power to Taken for evolving under the current set of rules. With 9000 rules governing the raid scene, new tactics are bound to come up. Why does the solution have to be more rules? I'll never coth duck for hours on end, and I won't be upset if Taken does and wins a mob because of it.

[TMBLOW]

this thread is so dumb

Taken has never asked any of our mages to COH duck.... ( sound familiar TMO lawl)

its so easy to type that shit out and act like its gospel.

I was there tracking FFA VS the other week for 8 hours....guess which out of the 4 mages there started COH ducking first and continued to for over 4 hours while the others just watched him do it.....yea it was TMO

Obvious strats are obvious, like Chest said it would have been figured out quickly by anyone who does FFA mobs with a mage tracker but because TMO/IB have nothing else to bitch about in their quest to lock the raid mobs down they pick up Taken which barely gets 1 FFA mob every other week

the horror!!!!

quick lets try to ban a strat that other guilds use so TMO/IB can gain yet another advantage by using the footrace their pullers have been mastering for years now, combined with the Frapsquesting camera coverage of a Michael Bay film

Get bent and come up with a real solution, not more rules that give the advantage to the pixel overlords.

[Cyrano]

I thought the use of mage CoH was being outlawed at raid targets outside of Trak?

[kotton05]

I thought the use of mage CoH was being outlawed at raid targets outside of Trak?

That would be cool, I do miss the days of logging in at trak ledge tho and not leaving behind half the raid for an engage. Where you here that from

[Detoxx]

That would be cool, I do miss the days of logging in at trak ledge tho and not leaving behind half the raid for an engage. Where you here that from

That was definitely more convenient, but the way its done now is actually quite fun. Its fun to engage trakanon with 9 people and get a successful kill, and it allows for real competition. Trakanon used to be a huge shit show, and now its probably the cleanest, funnest engage with little drama.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

Such a broken record. Let em track and coth and poop sock till they blow up.
Its classic.

[Brawley17]

Wow raiding on this server is such a joke…..

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Wow raiding on this server is such a joke…..

Welcome, to Everquest!

[Pint]

Rogean should just shut this box down alrdy

[Tasslehofp99]

If we (BDA) wanted max pixels then we wouldn't have been the spearhead for the rotation. You're an idiot.


You weren't getting many pixels before the rotation. One could also say that BDA had every reason to "spearhead for the rotation" since they weren't really a powerful raiding force on the server prior to the changes. They had everything to gain from it; just step in line and wait for your welfare pixels. Unlike before the changes when you occasionally got a vox or Inny kill, or maybe snagged a few mobs during a repop.

You should be thanking those who were in FE for standing up to TMO back then. BDA certainly wouldn't have been able to make enough of a splash in the raiding scene to bring about reform in the raiding scene; by your own admission you've always been unwilling to earn your pixels.

[Nirgon]

I've noticed over the past few days certain members of the guild Taken expressing their discontent with the practice of having a Mage tracker and then the said Mage tracker casting the spell Call of the Hero only to duck and interrupt the spell if the raid mob does not spawn. While I applaud your efforts to rid the server of this absurd practice, I remain a bit perplexed as to the source of your objections to this tactic since

YOU ARE THE STUPID DUMB ASS MOTHERFUCKERS THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE SHIT. YOU, TAKEN, DRAGGED THE SHITTY RAID SCENE ON THIS SERVER INTO EVEN MORE OF A SHITTY PLACE WHEN YOU "WON" AN FFA NAGGY BY COTH DUCKING THE LAST HOUR. THEN LAST WEEK YOU WERE COTH DUCKING FUCKING SHITTY ASS TALENDOR 1 HOUR INTO WINDOW.

SO YOU ALL CAN GET FUCKED. YOU ARE ALL SHITTY ASS SCUMBAGS WHO WILL RESORT TO ALL SORTS OF SHITTY BEHAVIOR TO GET MOBS.

I've asked for a long time now to have duck casting made classic like it is on red.

And look what happens.

Color me SHOCKED.

[Ravager]

by your own admission you've always been unwilling to earn your pixels.

Don't be angry that you were stupid enough to track for 96 hours at a shot.

[arsenalpow]

You weren't getting many pixels before the rotation. One could also say that BDA had every reason to "spearhead for the rotation" since they weren't really a powerful raiding force on the server prior to the changes. They had everything to gain from it; just step in line and wait for your welfare pixels. Unlike before the changes when you occasionally got a vox or Inny kill, or maybe snagged a few mobs during a repop.

You should be thanking those who were in FE for standing up to TMO back then. BDA certainly wouldn't have been able to make enough of a splash in the raiding scene to bring about reform in the raiding scene; by your own admission you've always been unwilling to earn your pixels.

if you honestly believe that rhetoric you're dumber than i thought you were. FE accomplished nothing until IB started holding their hand. FE didn't bring about any sort of reform, TMO and IB/FE turning every single encounter into a complete shitshow to the point where the staff threw their hands up brought reform. Now you've merged into TMO which makes the entire thing even more laughable.

BDA is always willing to "earn" our pixels but we aren't going to sink to your fucking levels of despicable behavior to do it. We actually have some integrity unlike all you FE fucks who's entire existence was to stop TMO only to join them.

[G13]

This thread is a prime example why instanced raiding > EQ

[arsenalpow]

This thread is a prime example why instanced raiding > EQ

It's almost a necessity at this point because people can't help themselves.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.roosterteeth.com/images/Tamari484fd856d5cba.jpg

For example every-fucking-thing on this server is monetized at the moment. If you're a cleric leveling up and you want an epic it's usually easier to just farm some cash and MQ for it instead of you know questing for it. There will be some TMO fuck sitting their FD waiting for Ragefire to spawn so he can duo it for the 398745897th time. Fuck that new guy who just wants to kill it once for his epic.

Now apply that logic to raid mobs. If TMO and IB had it their way they'd kill every mob every time until the entire server dries up because that makes them feel warm and tingly or something. That's right, depriving others of loot makes them feel good. The anonymity the internet provides allows for this shitfuck behavior.

When Velious drops they'll dissolve the raid class system and TMO/IB will still be chasing premium content such as Trak/VS/PD/Hoshkar and occasionally Inny/CT. Fuck the casual raider. God forbid the casual raider would want to even see ST someday.

If you enjoy playing everquest and just derping around then p99 is right for you. If you plan on raiding at the highest levels then be ready to check your integrity at the door. You must stoop to some preposterous levels to get the best pixels. If you're ok with acting like a shitcock over the internet then join TMO or IB and shit on anyone that gets in your way, but at least you'll have shiny pixels.

[BurgyK]

^^^ projecting much?

[Ravager]

but at least you'll have shiny pixels so long as the devs want to host them on their hobby server

ftfy

The day they pull the plug it won't bother me one bit, but some of these neckbeards stake their entire identities on this server.

[arsenalpow]

^^^ projecting much?

How is it projecting?

It's a confirmed fact that TMO and IB give no shits about the health of the server. Unbrella even told me in vent that TMO would ally with IB to keep loot out of casual hands as long as it preserved the TMO/IB way of life.

10+ class R guilds in under a month have done what TMO/IB/TR/DA etc etc hadn't been able to do in 4+ years. The problem with the raidscene isn't that there's too many capable guilds, it isn't because velious isn't out (protip: it's not going to solve everything) it's because of the mentality of the hardcore player. He always needs more, everyone else be damned. There's never enough for them. Does someone really need to kill ragefire every single time he spawns? Probably not. Is that mindset good for the health of the server? I don't think so.

Once someone gets past that nostalgic fix and wants to progress to actually accomplishing some goals in the game they run smack into that mentality. Will you ever see your epic Mr. Newbie SK? Probably not unless you want to join TMO or IB and raid like an asshole. A particular raid style shouldn't be a prerequisite to raiding on p99.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You weren't getting many pixels before the rotation. One could also say that BDA had every reason to "spearhead for the rotation" since they weren't really a powerful raiding force on the server prior to the changes.

So, no more reason to "spearhead the rotation" than any other guild currently in the rotation, right?

The difference is Chest/BDA caught most of the flack from the Class C guilds when it meant someone besides "hardcore shitcocks" (to use the eloquent terminology above) could potentially get pixels. And he STILL gets most of the flack because Class C feels he is the player most directly responsible for allowing non-hardcore players to have access to pixels (probably hurting some of that RMT operation most likely going on for some rent money, amirite?)

This has always been about Class C guilds judging casuals and their playstyles "undeserving of Class C's pixels" because they weren't playing the game the way the Class C guilds wanted to play (as if someone gave the Class C guilds the right to decide how raiding on the server should be for EVERYONE), which is largely unenjoyable even for most of the members of the Class C guilds.

But -- of course -- we can't expect them to admit that, be shunned by their guilds, and get less pixels. Gotta play along and talk the talk to get those pixels, right?

[toosweet]

I admire the way Yendor defends his boyfriend

[Juevento]

fuck it, wipe it clean.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Your lives must be astonishingly sad

[contemptor]

You weren't getting many pixels before the rotation. One could also say that BDA had every reason to "spearhead for the rotation" since they weren't really a powerful raiding force on the server prior to the changes. They had everything to gain from it; just step in line and wait for your welfare pixels. Unlike before the changes when you occasionally got a vox or Inny kill, or maybe snagged a few mobs during a repop.

You should be thanking those who were in FE for standing up to TMO back then. BDA certainly wouldn't have been able to make enough of a splash in the raiding scene to bring about reform in the raiding scene; by your own admission you've always been unwilling to earn your pixels.
Lol, grats on thinking you were more than a doormat.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

fuck it, wipe it clean.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

How is it projecting?

It's a confirmed fact that TMO and IB give no shits about the health of the server. Unbrella even told me in vent that TMO would ally with IB to keep loot out of casual hands as long as it preserved the TMO/IB way of life.

10+ class R guilds in under a month have done what TMO/IB/TR/DA etc etc hadn't been able to do in 4+ years. The problem with the raidscene isn't that there's too many capable guilds, it isn't because velious isn't out (protip: it's not going to solve everything) it's because of the mentality of the hardcore player. He always needs more, everyone else be damned. There's never enough for them. Does someone really need to kill ragefire every single time he spawns? Probably not. Is that mindset good for the health of the server? I don't think so.

Once someone gets past that nostalgic fix and wants to progress to actually accomplishing some goals in the game they run smack into that mentality. Will you ever see your epic Mr. Newbie SK? Probably not unless you want to join TMO or IB and raid like an asshole. A particular raid style shouldn't be a prerequisite to raiding on p99.

Plenty of epic newbie SKs. At least when RMT was more accessible :P

[Bazia]

This is the blue server I thought the whole point was to obtain pixels and everyone to just have a good time, not like a_large_rat AI is gonna challenge anyone.

[Detoxx]

For example every-fucking-thing on this server is monetized at the moment. If you're a cleric leveling up and you want an epic it's usually easier to just farm some cash and MQ for it instead of you know questing for it. There will be some class r Taken fuck sitting their FD waiting for Ragefire to spawn so he can duo it for the 398745897th time. Fuck that new guy who just wants to kill it once for his epic.

Fixed for you

[HeallunRumblebelly]

P sure catherin was autofiring it based on several fraps. later shown definitive fraps. daliant was obviously using something to auto turn in--the fucker was afk as it was killed haha. the fight is pure shitshow due to the nature of the spawn and its tremendous value for how easy of a fight he is.

[Neno]

Anyone who was even slightly aware of what raiding or the raid scene was like during this era really shouldn't be surprised about what is going on. Keeping pixels out of your competitions hands is part of the game. You stymie the progression of other guilds so they can never challenge you. It is the meta game of the raid scene and quite a fun one if you are the one cock blocking.

I didn't play on every server in EQ but on the one I did and the ones some of my friends did it was always the same story. 1-2 guilds at the top with like 2-4 smaller ones fighting over the scraps. The top guild situation here is correct with having IB and TMO doing their thing but toss in 10-11 other guilds who also want a piece of the action and there will never be enough for everyone even with RoK + SoV. A single uber guild can claim almost all of SoV on a weekly basis. If you are in a lower tier raid guild now I hope you enjoy farming RoK because its all that you will continue to have outside of whatever rotation gets cooked up for kael arena farming.

[arsenalpow]

P sure catherin was autofiring it based on several fraps. later shown definitive fraps. daliant was obviously using something to auto turn in--the fucker was afk as it was killed haha. the fight is pure shitshow due to the nature of the spawn and its tremendous value for how easy of a fight he is.

Just because no one else got definitively caught doesn't mean it wasn't fucking rampant. Don't be purposefully stupid.

As far as dominating content that was only the case on some servers. Other servers had rotations, others solved their shit through pvp. If the goal of this server is to experience classic EQ in all it's forms then letting 15% of the population dictate raid content to the rest of the server doesn't hold up.

[forensic]

Anyone who knows anything about the top level raiding scene also can smell the unspoken reality miles away:

The winners of this game are people that know how to macro and automate without getting caught. EverQuest is extremely hackable and extremely automatable. Back in Classic the top guilds were all using all of the cheats, macros, mods, automation they thought they could get away with.

To me it sounds like this server has GMs that are more attentive and interested in catching cheaters, but that just means they're going to catch the obvious ones, and the winners of the game will be people who were subtle enough to make sure their cheating is of the type that can't be caught.

The kinds of "competition" people are talking about here is exactly the kind of competition that is easy to automate while appearing to not be automated.

There are entire suites of software that provide tools to people to allow them to automate gameplay--especially in non-twitch games like EverQuest.

I see these "uber" players going around doing stuff like swarm kiting 40 mobs in tight perfect circles. Like circles with a 12 foot radius. For hours on end. Who the fuck are people kidding? These people are obviously not doing all of this manually. They're using various forms of automation. Whether that automation is technically legal or not is irrelevant. The point is that you have no chance to win unless you also use these techniques, and using these techniques means playing a programming-oriented metagame of plausible deniability and becoming friends with moderators so they start to believe that all your achievements are actually skill.

I've seen it all before.

So anyway my appeal is just to the purists like me who want to play the game with no scripts, no modifications, no programming or macros of any kind. Not because this will make me a better player--in EQ a purist will always be inferior to those willing to do what it takes to win.

You should play this way because it's way more fun, even when you lose.

Now let me tell you a story... I was in a guild of around 50 people and we discovered that it was easier to create software on each players computer that would allow the leadership to control their characters for them than it was to teach each player every raid encounter.

All guilds are made up of a core of 1-5 people who do 90% of the work. The remaining people are more or less bodies filliing up slots. Those remaining people may put in a lot of time, or they may not, but the point is that they are fairly easy to replace and don't bring a lot of key intelligence or competitive spirit to the guild.

In one of my guilds, the core 4-5 people realized that we would be most effective and adaptable by actually writing software that our players would install on their computers that allowed us to just control their characters remotely. Think of it like long distance 50 boxing. We would just map their abilities on to certain triggers--including movement and making heavy use of the /follow command--and this would allow us to puppet string entire raid forces.

This made us way more effective. Imagine having 1 person in control of all the wizards in the raid. The head wizard pushes a button on his software and all the other wizards nuke at exactly the same time. This is just a bad example. The point is that this allowed for tremendous control and flexibility.

Some of our players complained that it was like making them no longer even a player of the game. But even those complainers were quickly silenced because they very much enjoyed being part of a guild that was so dominating.

This was just one little intiative that was dreamed up one day and then implemented 2 weeks later. There were dozens of others, with the most basic being straight up automation of tedious tasks combined with alert mechanisms to bring the player to the computer should a GM send them a tell to test if they were AFK.

The knowledge kept inside uber guilds in MMOs absolutely dwarfs all of the public knowledge available on sites like p99 wiki. Most of the tricks of EQ are still probably NOT known to the general public.

Now by my estimation... the top guilds on p99 are of fairly low calibre worldwide. IB/TMO are not really big fish in a small pond but just little fish in a tiny pond. But the nature of EQ--with it's lack of instances--means that the winners of EQ are going to be people willing to take their competitiveness to the next level. Whatever that level may be.

So my advice to BDA and everyone else who feels wronged by IB/TMO is to stop trying to win at a rigged game. Learn to enjoy EQ as a purist like me and have fun roleplaying and doing low or mid level grouping. You actually don't have to play their game, and you don't need gear from Veeshan's Peak in order to have fun.

Life is way too short to get upset that people are beating you in a videogame. Just realize you'll never win without going into "hardcore" mode and that going into hardcore mode is not worth it.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

TLDR

[forensic]

tldr... I know you spent 20 hours camping the ancient cyclops so you should spend 5 min to read my brilliant post

cause it's good

[HeallunRumblebelly]

TLDR

tl;dr, yall *****s should be just happy to play da game cuz ib/tmo clearly cheatin.

I mean, it's purely speculation and with the way raiding is at the moment such methods would be for the most part useless (which is why trackers can no longer engage, etc.) but we'll go with this Forensic guy's opinion.

[Ella`Ella]

Just because no one else got definitively caught doesn't mean it wasn't fucking rampant. Don't be purposefully stupid.

As far as dominating content that was only the case on some servers. Other servers had rotations, others solved their shit through pvp. If the goal of this server is to experience classic EQ in all it's forms then letting 15% of the population dictate raid content to the rest of the server doesn't hold up.

So, you're saying we should take the percentage of total servers that were care-bear and make that amount equal to the amount of mobs class R gets?

[Ella`Ella]

Pretty sure his TL;DR is "The house always wins"

[forensic]

tl;dr, yall *****s should be just happy to play da game cuz ib/tmo clearly cheatin.

I mean, it's purely speculation and with the way raiding is at the moment such methods would be for the most part useless (which is why trackers can no longer engage, etc.) but we'll go with this Forensic guy's opinion.

Someone the other day was talking about programmable keyboards and discussing whether they are or aren't cheating.

The rule legislators and rule lawyers will argue for months and years about what does and doesn't break the rules. All competitions work like this. People push the rules as far as possible. Being a winner means understanding where the line is and exploiting that.

A hockey player who doesn't play as dirty as the ref will allow is a bad hockey player. Wayne Gretzky's high achievements were based on the dirty play of his enforcers who pushed the rules to their absolute limits and even got penalized for that many times. Gretzky is now hailed as the greatest player ever... and he was...

If you turn EQ into an elite competitive sport then to be a contender you have to understand the rules and push them to their limit. This is what being competitive means... and pushing the rules to their limit means pushing them to their limit of enforceability.

Unfortunately for EQ... it's extremely easy to cheat. This is why it's absolutely retarded to turn EQ into a competitive sport. Competitive EQ is the dumbest eSport ever. If you want an eSports competition you should go play a game that was built for it.

All of these people are crying because they are being dominated and they are unwilling to "sink to the level" of the winners. It's really stupid to expect an "honorable" competition in this of all places.

[ManosMan]

Take a look at a fairly similar situation. Shards of Dalaya (custom EQ freeshard using up to Titanium expansions) has a comparable population. It also has 13 raid tiers with more raid mobs in most of each tiers than all of current P99's zones combined.

List (http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Raid_Tiers)

There are also 6-man encounters, 12-man encounters, and adepts (basically lowbie raids). I was on there for a year or two raiding T1-T10 via a couple guilds and rarely encountered issues with other guilds raiding a few hours three nights a week. There were some issues sure, but like I said, fairly rare. Am I saying this place is heaven? No. Am I saying P99 should try to emulate a custom server and add custom content? Obviously not as it defeats the purpose of the project in the first place. I'm just trying to communicate an idea of the amount of raid content it seems to take to make 500-1000 people happy and consistently raiding. Now, take that raid content, divide it by 13 and sit with it for three years.

It's amazing you people get any raiding done at all without everyone's dicks going into everyone's butts. I'm lurking until Velious. Not sure it will change anything though, even doubling the raid content.

[forensic]

If p99 is ACTUALLY giving us a classic EQ experience... then the dominating guilds will be chock full of tactics that the general public knows nothing about.

Tactics that the general public would be outraged to find out about.

The technical legality of each of those tactics is a discussion for philosophers.

But anyway I really enjoy the classic EQ experience including the fact that there are these pixel deniers at the top of the server. That's just part of the nature of classic EQ.

<insert deal with it dog>

[arsenalpow]

So what's the carrot on the stick for the casual raider? We obviously refuse to stoop to the hardcore level of what they call "competition" and we've created an environment where 10+ guilds are sharing 33% of the content which happens to be more than half the server population.

This isn't a classic situation. It needs a non classic solution. Give us p99 blue 2.0. BDA will personally raise the necessary funds for hardware and hosting (as would almost every other class R guild I'm sure) and allow a onetime /movelog to the new server. On this new server the raid rules will be agreed upon by the raiding guilds and enforced by the staff in the spirit of the current class R rotation agreement. A council comprised of raid guild reps would come to agreements on punishments which would remove the need for staff discipline. Staff would be left with item reimbursements and corpse rots.

I've had this idea for a while and the only class R guilds that didn't like the plan was A-Team and Omni (although Omni initially supported the idea) plus I'd wager that a large majority of the casual population would movelog as well because they'd know that they could eventually reach their EQ goals without being a hardcore neckbeard asshole.

It's saying something when 75% of the p99 population would willingly secede from TMO/IB if given the opportunity.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

<insert nilbog / rogean quotes about never being another blue server nor a server wipe>

[forensic]

So what's the carrot on the stick for the casual raider? We obviously refuse to stoop to the hardcore level of what they call "competition" and we've created an environment where 10+ guilds are sharing 33% of the content which happens to be more than half the server population.

This isn't a classic situation. It needs a non classic solution. Give us p99 blue 2.0. BDA will personally raise the necessary funds for hardware and hosting (as would almost every other class R guild I'm sure) and allow a onetime /movelog to the new server. On this new server the raid rules will be agreed upon by the raiding guilds and enforced by the staff in the spirit of the current class R rotation agreement. A council comprised of raid guild reps would come to agreements on punishments which would remove the need for staff discipline. Staff would be left with item reimbursements and corpse rots.

I've had this idea for a while and the only class R guilds that didn't like the plan was A-Team and Omni (although Omni initially supported the idea) plus I'd wager that a large majority of the casual population would movelog as well because they'd know that they could eventually reach their EQ goals without being a hardcore neckbeard asshole.

It's saying something when 75% of the p99 population would willingly secede from TMO/IB if given the opportunity.

One way or another, the solution for carebears is to remove the competition.

Don't PvP in a game that wasn't built for PvP. Competitive EQ... is PvP.

If you want to PvE you need some mechanism that removes competition. Instancing is the gold standard, but scheduling works too. Instancing isn't classic... scheduling IS classic, but it still led to endless rule lawyering and pushing of the limits. Scheduling did not, historically speaking, ever stop hardcore guilds from dominating. What stopped them was the release of expansions.

I would have to say that the current state of affairs seems VERY MUCH inline with classic to me. For better or worse it's very classic and that's why this raid drama is nostalgic for me =}

[toosweet]

If you want a new server dedicated to the casual type of player why dont you make it and fund it?
Rogean and crew are probably busy enough with p99 blue and red and velious.
Take the lead chest and host your own server.
You get to make all the rules and control the climate of your very own server.
You might have to start over from scratch but that shouldnt be a big deal.

[G13]

It's kind of a slap in the face to have a prime box wasting away with sub 100 pop everyday in light of the current clusterfuck that is Blue. Red is a joke.

Variance was a terrible idea. A non classic "fix" that has only made the problem 100 times worse

Stop coddling the fucktards. Release the source code or something so the guilds here that are getting fucked in the ass can go setup a classic box somewhere free from the fucktard assholes. Wipe Red and create Blue 2.0 or something. Ban all high end guilds like TMO and IB from playing there. If they want the extreme "competition" where you're COTH ducking for a week straight then fine. Have at it.

They can wallow in the box they've created. Let sane and rational people have a server that free from that cancerous mentality that is ruining this server. I mean COTH ducking? Really? Lawl what a joke you people are. How embarrassing.

[G13]

If you want a new server dedicated to the casual type of player why dont you make it and fund it?
Rogean and crew are probably busy enough with p99 blue and red and velious.
Take the lead chest and host your own server.
You get to make all the rules and control the climate of your very own server.
You might have to start over from scratch but that shouldnt be a big deal.

Why should they bother?

Was Project 1999 created for fucktard assholes that COTH duck for a week straight or the people that want to experience and enjoy classic Everquest?

If the devs want COTH ducking fucktards running this server than they don't they advertise the server with that being the selling point?

[forensic]

I remember the UO community discussing the nature of griefing and PvP back in 2000.

Basically the analysis at the time was that when it comes to PvP there are sheeps and there are wolves.

The wolves are the hardcore players. They don't play for themselves, they play to win. To win they need losers. They need people to beat. The wolves follow the sheep because the wolves need to eat.

If you make a new server the wolves will follow you there, or new wolves will follow you there, and they will eat the sheep as long as they are physically able to.

You either create a game that prevents PvP like WoW did, which protects casuals from the wolves to a great degree, or you accept that the wolves are going to find you and feed.

TMO/IB sound like wolves in that their goal and enjoyment in the game is to beat the other people. They are competitive. They will follow the sheep wherever the sheep go and will only stop if their fangs are removed.

Wolves are very much classic... classic was always dominated by wolves. The same was true for Ultima Online, The Realm, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and lots of other old school games. They all allowed more PvP than games today and they all had the same situation where the hardcore wolf players devoured the casuals.

The casual rebellion begun with WoW. Casuals flocked to wow because it let them "achieve their goals" without the interference of the wolves.

Anyway you guys might want to ask yourselves why you're so hung up on re-killing fake dragons. It's really NOT that fun. The best gameplay fun that EQ offers is in a small group crawling dungeons and the rest of the game is fun only to the extent that you use the world of EQ for roleplaying.

You guys seem like perma-victims to me, like some part of you enjoys being victimized. You're wanting to win a game that you can't possibly win and that would offer you no benefit even if you did win.

It's probably the existence of the pixel deniers that keeps you guys interested. As soon as you all got your uber loot you'd probably get bored and quit.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

It's kind of a slap in the face to have a prime box wasting away with sub 100 pop everyday in light of the current clusterfuck that is Blue. Red is a joke.

Variance was a terrible idea. A non classic "fix" that has only made the problem 100 times worse

Stop coddling the fucktards. Release the source code or something so the guilds here that are getting fucked in the ass can go setup a classic box somewhere free from the fucktard assholes. Wipe Red and create Blue 2.0 or something. Ban all high end guilds like TMO and IB from playing there. If they want the extreme "competition" where you're COTH ducking for a week straight then fine. Have at it.

They can wallow in the box they've created. Let sane and rational people have a server that free from that cancerous mentality that is ruining this server. I mean COTH ducking? Really? Lawl what a joke you people are. How embarrassing.

Seriously though, with non variance we'd just turn every raid into noble. Which is honestly about the least stressful raid minus those expensive fucking keys. Show up 20 minutes before or so, buff up, pull slot lever. Kinda like VS before extended variances, who didn't love the pit party!

Could just leave it to lottery like it was before--let the mob come out of the gate with someone aggroed. No reason to complain about autofire at that point.

[G13]

I remember the UO community discussing the nature of griefing and PvP back in 2000.

Basically the analysis at the time was that when it comes to PvP there are sheeps and there are wolves.

The wolves are the hardcore players. They don't play for themselves, they play to win. To win they need losers. They need people to beat. The wolves follow the sheep because the wolves need to eat.

If you make a new server the wolves will follow you there, or new wolves will follow you there, and they will eat the sheep as long as they are physically able to.

You either create a game that prevents PvP like WoW did, which protects casuals from the wolves to a great degree, or you accept that the wolves are going to find you and feed.

TMO/IB sound like wolves in that their goal and enjoyment in the game is to beat the other people. They are competitive. They will follow the sheep wherever the sheep go and will only stop if their fangs are removed.

Wolves are very much classic... classic was always dominated by wolves. The same was true for Ultima Online, The Realm, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, and lots of other old school games. They all allowed more PvP than games today and they all had the same situation where the hardcore wolf players devoured the casuals.

The casual rebellion begun with WoW. Casuals flocked to wow because it let them "achieve their goals" without the interference of the wolves.

Anyway you guys might want to ask yourselves why you're so hung up on re-killing fake dragons. It's really NOT that fun. The best gameplay fun that EQ offers is in a small group crawling dungeons and the rest of the game is fun only to the extent that you use the world of EQ for roleplaying.

You guys seem like perma-victims to me, like some part of you enjoys being victimized. You're wanting to win a game that you can't possibly win and that would offer you no benefit even if you did win.

It's probably the existence of the pixel deniers that keeps you guys interested. As soon as you all got your uber loot you'd probably get bored and quit.

If you're reduced to COTH ducking what the fuck are you really winning?

It's sad and pathetic. Not winning

[Detoxx]

Chest, do you ever stop QQing? Holy shit man you are more of a neckbeard nerd than any class C scum could strive to be.

[Servellious]

is it that hard for guild leaders to speak with each other and come to an agreement to stop coth ducking and for guilds to punish members doing so? Isnt that was the staff wanted us to do to begin with?

[arsenalpow]

It's about staff enforcement of the rules. Ten guilds have worked it out for almost a year now with zero issues. That mentality could easily work on a new server it would just have to be enforced as such.

[forensic]

If you're reduced to COTH ducking what the fuck are you really winning?

It's sad and pathetic. Not winning

Some people define winning as beating other people and making them upset.

"As long as I'm stopping someone else from getting what I have, or as long as I'm frustrating someone else and making them mad, I'm winning, and WINNING IS INHERENTLY FUN."

This is the attitude of the hardcore wolf. It's not about COTH ducking it's about WINNING. To WIN, you need LOSERS.

This is how it was back in all the old school games with PvP. The hardcores dominated the casuals and would follow the casuals. When the hardcores followed the casuals to wow... suddenly we discovered that it was next to impossible to actually dominate the casual anymore. Blizzard was protecting the casuals. The best we could do was to complete the content, brag about it, and then... nothing left to do...

What do you do after you've beaten all the content in a PvE game and the game mechanics disallow you from denying other guilds from completing that content?

The game gets boring and you quit.

I was just like IB/TMO back in my late teens/early 20s. Pre-WOW, my guilds would have fun dominating the casuals. Post-WOW, my guilds would crush all the content and have nothing left to do, get bored, maybe make some money by selling characters or PLing for a bit, then quit to find something else to do.

This current situation is classic EQ all over again. The only difference is that it's been going on for like 5 years instead of just a few LOL.

I just discovered P99 but I wish I could have followed this server since inception. Would have been super nostalgic to play on a fresh EQ server with rusty weapons.

[arsenalpow]

is it that hard for guild leaders to speak with each other and come to an agreement to stop coth ducking and for guilds to punish members doing so? Isnt that was the staff wanted us to do to begin with?

Coth ducking is stupid. No one is disputing that, but it happens to be the most easily policed method of making sure no one is cheating. Everyone has two trackers (they're usually mages) and everyone can see those two trackers, you can see in the logs when someone has been cothed in to get FTE. The proposal via Unbrella was we could eliminate coth ducking and replace it with a straight footrace. Which means you'd need constant fraps to ensure that whoever got FTE was at the zoneline initially which is just as ludicrous as coth ducking.

So in the mean time coth ducking will stay until something else is figured out.

[ManosMan]

If you make a new server the wolves will follow you there, or new wolves will follow you there, and they will eat the sheep as long as they are physically able to.
No kidding. Supposing even no wolves migrated, does anyone really think all those sheep would just stay as sheep in the new promised land? Some would become the nastiest mangiest wolves yet, with a newly gained taste for sheep blood.
This current situation is classic EQ all over again. The only difference is that it's been going on for like 5 years instead of just a few LOL.
Just a few? Kunark wasn't even a year old when Velious came out. There's hardly a year between any of the expansions. In roughly the time Kunark has been out on P99, LDoN was already coming out for Live.

[arsenalpow]

The absolute best way to solve this issue is to remove the instances where class C and class R are forced to interact with each other. Either remove the FFA cycle entirely (and allow for FFA during repops) or make it so that all FFA cycle mobs spawn simultaneously. This would require guilds to prioritize their encounters instead of having 5+ guilds waiting together in zone which creates these clusterfucks that no one wants to be a part of.

[Ella`Ella]

The proposal via Unbrella was we could eliminate coth ducking and replace it with a straight footrace.

The footrace has worked fine for the two class-c guilds that go to every little extreme to get the slightest edge against each other for several months now. We figured that if we could play nicely and police this measure between ourselves, it would be able to be carried over to FFA mobs as well. It's much easier to slip something past when there is only one other guild watching you -- when you have 6 guilds each watching the other, it becomes exponentially more difficult to get away with abuses. At that point, if you actually get away with it - then shit, you earned it, Bond.

[arsenalpow]

No kidding. Supposing even no wolves migrated, does anyone really think all those sheep would just stay as sheep in the new promised land? Some would become the nastiest mangiest wolves yet, with a newly gained taste for sheep blood.

If the rules are clearly defined and enforced then it won't be an issue. Class R has made it work. We're a perfect example of how raiding can work in a civilized manner without all the toxic hardcore shit that goes on.

[arsenalpow]

The footrace has worked fine for the two class-c guilds that go to every little extreme to get the slightest edge against each other for several months now. We figured that if we could play nicely and police this measure between ourselves, it would be able to be carried over to FFA mobs as well. It's much easier to slip something past when there is only one other guild watching you -- when you have 6 guilds each watching the other, it becomes exponentially more difficult to get away with abuses. At that point, if you actually get away with it - then shit, you earned it, Bond.

I have no interest in playing FrapsQuest with you or any other guild. We can't have nice things because you and your ilk are morons that have brought the raidscene to this idiotic crescendo.

[forensic]

Coth ducking is stupid. No one is disputing that, but it happens to be the most easily policed method of making sure no one is cheating. Everyone has two trackers (they're usually mages) and everyone can see those two trackers, you can see in the logs when someone has been cothed in to get FTE. The proposal via Unbrella was we could eliminate coth ducking and replace it with a straight footrace. Which means you'd need constant fraps to ensure that whoever got FTE was at the zoneline initially which is just as ludicrous as coth ducking.

So in the mean time coth ducking will stay until something else is figured out.

Does this server have some kind of super advanced detection for speedhacks? Cause back in classic EQ, footraces were the easiest thing in the world to hack.

Of course automating COTH ducking is even easier.

I could write a script in 5min that would automate COTH ducking. When the mob spawns it would automatically summon. The script would be entirely external to the EQ client and could even be isolated from the machine in such a way that if eqgame.exe does some kind of advanced spying is impossible for it to distinguish between a human doing the COTH ducking.

Combine this with a little alarm that triggers whenever something weird happens (i.e. GM checking up on us, tells, zoning, person comes nearby, movement) and give the script to whichever super loyal and trusted member is available to poopsock that day.

He can do his homework (college students are usually the best MMO players for a reason) while COTH ducking all day. Everyone will say he's a lame nerd poopsocker and believe that he's actually sitting there doing it manually LOL.

The GMs will investigate and conclude that he's a real person... because there is just no way for them to know.

Seriously, I could write that before lunchtime.

For extra credit, use VPNs so that everyone can log on to the guild mage and make it appear that the mage is always being played from the same IP address. Super flexible and easy.

It boggles my mind that people take this game seriously as an eSport when cheating is so fucking easy.

[Ella`Ella]

I have no interest in playing FrapsQuest with you or any other guild. We can't have nice things because you and your ilk are morons that have brought the raidscene to this idiotic crescendo.

You realize that FrapsQuest has never played a role in our 'foot race'. Fraps really only comes into question when resolved matters regarding trains.

[ManosMan]

If the rules are clearly defined and enforced then it won't be an issue. Class R has made it work. We're a perfect example of how raiding can work in a civilized manner without all the toxic hardcore shit that goes on.
You say 'clearly defined' and 'enforced' like it's that simple. You know it's not. I've seen you quote clearly defined rules in the raid policy and it becomes a huge debate regarding circumstances and evidence and it always will. The reason a second server would ease pain is because it basically doubles the raid content for the same population. That helps a little, but a second server will not change the basic MMO mentality. People are still people and SOMEONE is going to get the biggest slice of the pie.

How exactly do you intend to enforce rules without recordings?
I have no interest in playing FrapsQuest with you or any other guild.
On P99 Pink, VP goes bad, people die. Guild A says one thing, Guild B says another. How do you enforce anything? Why do you think everything will just work out over there? The grass is just as brown and covered in dogshit on that side of the fence man...

[arsenalpow]

90% of the raid disputes have come from TMO and IB. Nearly every single raid encounter requires some sort of litigation. The only raid disputes coming from class R came from Dolj (a class C mentality) or interactions involving C and R guilds. The common denominator is the class C mentality.

If class R has an issue we handle it in house and we've been wildly successful doing so. Just because TMO and IB can't get their shit together doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase lacks the wherewithal to raid with integrity.

[forensic]

You say 'clearly defined' and 'enforced' like it's that simple. You know it's not. I've seen you quote clearly defined rules in the raid policy and it becomes a huge debate regarding circumstances and evidence and it always will. The reason a second server would ease pain is because it basically doubles the raid content for the same population. That helps a little, but a second server will not change the basic MMO mentality. People are still people and SOMEONE is going to get the biggest slice of the pie.

How exactly do you intend to enforce rules without recordings?

On P99 Pink, VP goes bad, people die. Guild A says one thing, Guild B says another. How do you enforce anything? Why do you think everything will just work out over there? The grass is just as brown and covered in dogshit on that side of the fence man...


^^ Yep.

If you want a real solution you do what the real people at the time did to solve this problem........

instancing!

Wolves HATE instancing. Because it protects the sheep.

There may be a novel game design that could allow for some of the benefits of instancing (immersion) without the drawbacks (domination by wolves) but that would involve designing and creating a new game. That would not be Classic EQ.

If you play Classic EQ as a casual you can't expect to get the elite loot, and you MUST expect to always be at the mercy of the hardcore wolves. That's just the nature of Classic EQ.

Creating a fucking legal system, complete with congress, constitution, judiciary, etc, is not reinventing EQ... that's reinventing fucking HUMAN GOVERNMENT. Now you're play Founding Father to a new country with new laws.

Do you want to play Sim Country? It sounds kinda fun I guess. But in real life you can create a State that puts people in jail. In EQ, there are these Gods called GMs that have supernatural power. Everything comes down to their whims. The whims of the Gods determines the fate of the players in Classic Norrath.

Trying to placate and manipulate the Gods is fun for some people. It's definitely Classic EQ, where one of the best recruits a guild could get was a Verant employee who would always be 100% convinced that his fellow guildmates were not doing anything remotely unethical.. and would use his or her considerable influence to defend you from The Gods =}

[forensic]

90% of the raid disputes have come from TMO and IB. Nearly every single raid encounter requires some sort of litigation. The only raid disputes coming from class R came from Dolj (a class C mentality) or interactions involving C and R guilds. The common denominator is the class C mentality.

If class R has an issue we handle it in house and we've been wildly successful doing so. Just because TMO and IB can't get their shit together doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase lacks the wherewithal to raid with integrity.

When people band together they often band together through a mutual fear of a common enemy.

It sounds like the behaviour of TMO/IB have led to the rest of the server uniting in defiance.

Remove the Common Enemy and you remove the cohesion of those guilds.

It's very naive to think you can just run away to a new server with the same game mechanics and not recreate the same issues. The game mechanics and GMs determine the player behaviour. Change the mechanics or change the GMs... those are your only realistic avenues for change...

[ManosMan]

90% of the raid disputes have come from TMO and IB. Nearly every single raid encounter requires some sort of litigation. The only raid disputes coming from class R came from Dolj (a class C mentality) or interactions involving C and R guilds. The common denominator is the class C mentality.

If class R has an issue we handle it in house and we've been wildly successful doing so. Just because TMO and IB can't get their shit together doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase lacks the wherewithal to raid with integrity.
You can't just remove all the lightning rods and expect to be as safe from lightning as you were when they were around...

[HeallunRumblebelly]

90% of the raid disputes have come from TMO and IB. Nearly every single raid encounter requires some sort of litigation. The only raid disputes coming from class R came from Dolj (a class C mentality) or interactions involving C and R guilds. The common denominator is the class C mentality.

If class R has an issue we handle it in house and we've been wildly successful doing so. Just because TMO and IB can't get their shit together doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase lacks the wherewithal to raid with integrity.

Huh? It's an FFA target most of the time that causes these issues. Especially low window FFA targets (that the class R guilds mobilize for).

[Swish]

Meanwhile people aren't getting banned for using autofire, amirite?

[forensic]

It's just unreasonable to expect the GMs to be able to enforce those rules...

They can only catch the people who are dumb or who don't care about getting caught.

Banning those people does make the server better and I support that. But to make EQ into a hypercompetitive eSport is stupid because anyone who really wants to win will suddenly realize that they could spend 16 hours camping a dragon AND FAIL.... or spend 16 hours writing an undetectable program to do it for them AND WIN.

So why put yourself in that situation?

Don't play EQ as an eSport. Don't PvP. Be a carebear and come dungeon crawl Dalnir with me in newbie gear.

[Tewaz]

Instance or PVP, this problem is only going to get worse.

[kotton05]

It's about staff enforcement of the rules. Ten guilds have worked it out for almost a year now with zero issues.

No they want us to kind forge it out. Soon your little paradise will collapse if you keep talking this way.... Then king chest of class r will rage harder than ever. Can't wait.

[kotton05]

If the rules are clearly defined and enforced then it won't be an issue. Class R has made it work. We're a perfect example of how raiding can work in a civilized manner without all the toxic hardcore shit that goes on.

Oh btw you're just as toxic over rage fire (I've seen the logs of your nerd rage) and I can't imagine what else... TMO is rather light hearted and more than willing to work with others.

[arsenalpow]

No they want us to kind forge it out. Soon your little paradise will collapse if you keep talking this way.... Then king chest of class r will rage harder than ever. Can't wait.

How stupid are you? We have to "forge it out" because you and the rest of class C are a toxic entity that requires these rules. When velious drops don't pity BDA or Taken. We're capable and battle tested but feel bad for every other guild.

[arsenalpow]

Oh btw you're just as toxic over rage fire (I've seen the logs of your nerd rage) and I can't imagine what else... TMO is rather light hearted and more than willing to work with others.

You're out of your mind. My guild goes after ragefire when we need a cleric epic. We don't have a crew that sits on every ragefire spawn to farm cash regardless if it cockblocks a new cleric.

[Duckwalk]

TMO bitching over another guild willing to stoop lower than them to claim pixels? Priceless.

Clearly we need to hear more about how skill and dedication = all day poop socks and 4 am bar phones!!

I though you guys wanted competition?

[toosweet]

Dear P1999,
I would like a class r welfare server and you should make it for us.
Because everyone should get a participation trophy

Yours truly
Chest
T-ball league President

[kotton05]

You're out of your mind. My guild goes after ragefire when we need a cleric epic. We don't have a crew that sits on every ragefire spawn to farm cash regardless if it cockblocks a new cleric.

I dunno I've seen logs of you being a royal prick. I can't remember which since you're so nice over rage fire (lol) must of been naggy my fault for mistaking the two.

[Uuruk]

Wipe it clean.

[Lictor]

I see Taken has finally found something TMO is not willing to compete with. Time to just derail into chest bashing instead of admitting that fact.

[Nerosys]

Chest you need to stop with the rage it's only a game take a breath.


Are you trying to tell us that on live there were GM enforced rotations and that the top 1 or 2 guilds of the server didn't monopolize the content until the next expansion where they still killed the top bosses from the previous expansion as well as pushing forward on the new content? As i was one of those people i call bullshit.

The reason class R guilds have no dispute is because there is literally no competition between you outside of FFA you guys rotate your damn mobs what is their to dispute? why not compare 2 things that actually make sense.

I also heard you say that FE had nothing to do with the changes, and really i think that's just your pride talking because you didn't think we had a chance in hell to get any targets when we left BDA. The fact remains that FE took alot of targets outside of VP and were the only ones to fight it out in VP when nobody else wanted to step to the plate, not one person on the server thought we could do it and we proved everyone wrong. Now you are upset that FE merged with TMO why does that affect you? are you mad that people can come to some sort of common ground and move forward instead of bitching and complaining and waiting for someone else to change their circumstances for them?

Why not just call a spade a spade, your agenda is to get the most mobs for class R with the least amount of resistance, because as you say everyone else who wants to compete or use so called shady tactics are just immoral people that don't sleep and poop in their socks "you refuse to sink to that level " spare us all get off your high horse". Let's face it the fact that the GM's stepped in was a miracle. I was not personally against class R getting mobs as i think it is healthy for the server to spread the love but it has turned the raiding scene into a dead mundane existence with no excitement and nothing to look forward to other than logging in when it is your turn to kill mobs.

[kotton05]

Na I don't think they have one upped us at all. I heard of our trackers doing it too. I just like pissing chest off and think coth ducking is stupid ^_^

[Colgate]

i remember when my pal jeremy and i played in that blue server 2v2 tournament, this chest guy was crying nonstop to the GMs about me the entire event

p sure it had to do with the fact that the bard i was playing had a TMO tag?

shit was hilarious

[TMBLOW]

Chest you need to stop with the rage it's only a game take a breath.


Are you trying to tell us that on live there were GM enforced rotations and that the top 1 or 2 guilds of the server didn't monopolize the content until the next expansion where they still killed the top bosses from the previous expansion as well as pushing forward on the new content? As i was one of those people i call bullshit.

The reason class R guilds have no dispute is because there is literally no competition between you outside of FFA you guys rotate your damn mobs what is their to dispute? why not compare 2 things that actually make sense.

I also heard you say that FE had nothing to do with the changes, and really i think that's just your pride talking because you didn't think we had a chance in hell to get any targets when we left BDA. The fact remains that FE took alot of targets outside of VP and were the only ones to fight it out in VP when nobody else wanted to step to the plate, not one person on the server thought we could do it and we proved everyone wrong. Now you are upset that FE merged with TMO why does that affect you? are you mad that people can come to some sort of common ground and move forward instead of bitching and complaining and waiting for someone else to change their circumstances for them?

Why not just call a spade a spade, your agenda is to get the most mobs for class R with the least amount of resistance, because as you say everyone else who wants to compete or use so called shady tactics are just immoral people that don't sleep and poop in their socks "you refuse to sink to that level " spare us all get off your high horse". Let's face it the fact that the GM's stepped in was a miracle. I was not personally against class R getting mobs as i think it is healthy for the server to spread the love but it has turned the raiding scene into a dead mundane existence with no excitement and nothing to look forward to other than logging in when it is your turn to kill mobs.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/71/71c3931c1edc4353a0c03ec549753b965872a2c343c0925561 7f4470cbd924ed.jpg

[freez]

http://i.imgur.com/trjPLpT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FdUVYt2.gif

[arsenalpow]

If the narrative was that BDA wanted as many pixels as possible why wouldn't we forgo a class R rotation and just gobble up every 3rd mob?

[Hitpoint]

90% of the raid disputes have come from TMO and IB. Nearly every single raid encounter requires some sort of litigation.

This isn't true at all. I'd say it's more like 2% or around there. We haven't had a significant raid dispute since July.

[Juevento]

i remember when my pal jeremy and i played in that blue server 2v2 tournament, this chest guy was crying nonstop to the GMs about me the entire event

p sure it had to do with the fact that the bard i was playing had a TMO tag?

shit was hilarious

Prolly had more to do with your cheating ass running out of the arena.

[mishurza]

Hey Chest,

Since you are so opposed to any kind of interaction with other guilds how about you just sit FFA out?

[iruinedyourday]

yall are upset that people are casting coth over and over and when the mob pops they dont duck and get a faster coth?

Yall mad about that?!

wtf man, just get on a rotation ffs if its a problem.

[Ravager]

If the narrative was that BDA wanted as many pixels as possible why wouldn't we forgo a class R rotation and just gobble up every 3rd mob?

Good question. Let's merge with TMO and stand in their pixel soup line and then make a guild with our alts and do just that and maximize free pixels.

[Colgate]

Prolly had more to do with your cheating ass running out of the arena.

never once left that platform 8)

[Grimjaw]

he probably doesn't realize that what he sees on his client is just his client predicting your next second of movement (assumes straight)