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Ridiuz
09-04-2010, 03:44 PM
As some of you may know during the good-o-days I started EQ on Rallos Zek, best PvP server and the most challenging. Where "No Drop" gear was HIGHLY valuable, and watching a guy quickly throwing his equiped gear into bags before dying to the hands of a PK was just the norm.

To everyones surprise Rallos Zek was the first server to take down the legendary Sleeper, and I was there (on my brothers character atleast lol). No he was not guilded to either of the 3 top guilds on the server (Ascdending Dawn, Wudan, Magus Imperialis Magicus) that with combind force of over 200+ players and roughly 4 hours later killed the sleeper. No he sneaked in by sending the mages a /tell when CoH's started. They didn't know he was unguilded and CoH'd him by accident. So we got front roll tickets to the best event in EQ history! He was also a delvl'd PK so he was lvl 54 and out of PvP range so they could not do anything about it. Oh and we got tons of hate messages lol. :P

We took tons and tons of screenshots, and I would like to share them with p99. It was truly an exciting experience, and hope you enjoy them.

But first here is a little backstory from the event... (http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/)

On November 15, 2003, on the Rallos Zek PvP server, the three top guilds (Ascending Dawn, Wudan, and Magus Imperialis Magicus) assembled over 180 players with the intent to wake and kill The Sleeper. This was in response to an attempt to wake The Sleeper by an Iksar monk named Stynkfyst, who partnered with the largest random-pk guild of the time. Having been a former member of uber-guild Ascending Dawn, he had the knowledge the random pk guild needed to wake The Sleeper. The top guilds did not assemble their forces until word of Stynkfyst’s intentions had spread, and it became clear that he intended to wake The Sleeper, forever preventing future guilds from farming the old loot table. Until this point, waking The Sleeper had not been seriously considered by any guilds, as it was believed that waking The Sleeper would make the offending guild’s players kill-on-sight to the other guilds of the server. After 3 hours and 15 minutes, at 26% health, Kerafyrm disappeared (despawned). The players talked with the EverQuest Game Masters, and there was a general consensus that a bug had caused the problem, although some suggested (backed by statements from one GM) that higher-ups at SOE had purposely despawned Kerafyrm, because it was not intended to be part of the story.

The following day, the players logged in to find that Kerafyrm was back in his “sleeping” state, ready to be triggered again. There was also an apology on the official EverQuest forums from SOE, explaining that they had stopped the encounter because they feared the players were engaging the boss in an unintended manner. Although annoyed (the players pointed out that the reasons SOE gave could not have occurred, and felt lied to), they attempted to battle Kerafyrm once again.

On November 17, 2003, after a nearly 3-hour battle, Kerafyrm was defeated. He had between 100 million and 400 million hit points, likely around 250 million (most EverQuest bosses have 2 million at most), was immune to all spells except wizard’s manaburn spell and Shadow Knight’s Harm Touch, possessed two death touch abilities (abilities that automatically killed players), and attacked players for 6999 damage per swing. By using the cleric’s epic weapon and other resurrection spells, the players were able to bring their dead characters back into the battle faster than Kerafyrm could kill them all.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000244.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000243.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000242.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000241.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000240.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000239.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000238.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000237.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000236.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000235.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000234.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000233.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000232.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000231.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000230.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000229.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000228.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000227.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000226.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000225.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000224.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000223.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000222.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000221.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000220.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000219.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000218.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000217.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000216.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000215.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000214.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000213.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000212.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000211.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000210.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000209.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000208.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000207.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000206.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000205.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000203.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000202.jpg

Rogean
09-04-2010, 04:43 PM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

Shannacore
09-04-2010, 05:10 PM
That UI is hideous

!!!

Lazortag
09-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

Imagine trying to get the guilds of p99 to cooperate on killing the sleeper, when half of the people on this server don't know how to use "assist".

Ridiuz
09-04-2010, 06:02 PM
That UI is hideous

!!!

Agreed, but back then we didn't know custom UI's existed. :(

Itchybottom
09-04-2010, 06:39 PM
The only good part of that bind rush was the amount of times Ornate died.

ukaking
09-04-2010, 08:39 PM
I saw so many names I recognized in those screenshots. Thats awesome!

kenzar
09-05-2010, 12:05 AM
<3 Stynkfyst

Fists
09-05-2010, 03:06 AM
Wudan represent! sadly I couldn't stay to the end, and was pretty much fed up after night 1. I left when Kerafym was still at around 60-63 =\. God was is still pretty epic. (fuzinii, bard of Wudan!)

Fistss - 50 Monk

UncleDread
09-05-2010, 04:10 AM
As some of you may know during the good-o-days I started EQ on Rallos Zek, best PvP server and the most challenging. Where "No Drop" gear was HIGHLY valuable, and watching a guy quickly throwing his equiped gear into bags before dying to the hands of a PK was just the norm.

To everyones surprise Rallos Zek was the first server to take down the legendary Sleeper, and I was there (on my brothers character atleast lol). No he was not guilded to either of the 3 top guilds on the server (Ascdending Dawn, Wudan, Magus Imperialis Magicus) that with combind force of over 200+ players and roughly 4 hours later killed the sleeper. No he sneaked in by sending the mages a /tell when CoH's started. They didn't know he was unguilded and CoH'd him by accident. So we got front roll tickets to the best event in EQ history! He was also a delvl'd PK so he was lvl 54 and out of PvP range so they could not do anything about it. Oh and we got tons of hate messages lol. :P

We took tons and tons of screenshots, and I would like to share them with p99. It was truly an exciting experience, and hope you enjoy them.

But first here is a little backstory from the event... (http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/)

On November 15, 2003, on the Rallos Zek PvP server, the three top guilds (Ascending Dawn, Wudan, and Magus Imperialis Magicus) assembled over 180 players with the intent to wake and kill The Sleeper. This was in response to an attempt to wake The Sleeper by an Iksar monk named Stynkfyst, who partnered with the largest random-pk guild of the time. Having been a former member of uber-guild Ascending Dawn, he had the knowledge the random pk guild needed to wake The Sleeper. The top guilds did not assemble their forces until word of Stynkfyst’s intentions had spread, and it became clear that he intended to wake The Sleeper, forever preventing future guilds from farming the old loot table. Until this point, waking The Sleeper had not been seriously considered by any guilds, as it was believed that waking The Sleeper would make the offending guild’s players kill-on-sight to the other guilds of the server. After 3 hours and 15 minutes, at 26% health, Kerafyrm disappeared (despawned). The players talked with the EverQuest Game Masters, and there was a general consensus that a bug had caused the problem, although some suggested (backed by statements from one GM) that higher-ups at SOE had purposely despawned Kerafyrm, because it was not intended to be part of the story.

The following day, the players logged in to find that Kerafyrm was back in his “sleeping” state, ready to be triggered again. There was also an apology on the official EverQuest forums from SOE, explaining that they had stopped the encounter because they feared the players were engaging the boss in an unintended manner. Although annoyed (the players pointed out that the reasons SOE gave could not have occurred, and felt lied to), they attempted to battle Kerafyrm once again.

On November 17, 2003, after a nearly 3-hour battle, Kerafyrm was defeated. He had between 100 million and 400 million hit points, likely around 250 million (most EverQuest bosses have 2 million at most), was immune to all spells except wizard’s manaburn spell and Shadow Knight’s Harm Touch, possessed two death touch abilities (abilities that automatically killed players), and attacked players for 6999 damage per swing. By using the cleric’s epic weapon and other resurrection spells, the players were able to bring their dead characters back into the battle faster than Kerafyrm could kill them all.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000244.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000243.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000242.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000241.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000240.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000239.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000238.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000237.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000236.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000235.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000234.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000233.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000232.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000231.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000230.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000229.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000228.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000227.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000226.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000225.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000224.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000223.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000222.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000221.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000220.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000219.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000218.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000217.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000216.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000215.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000214.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000213.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000212.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000211.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000210.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000209.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000208.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000207.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000206.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000205.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000203.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ridiuz/Sleeper/EQ000202.jpg

Hate break your Bubble dude,But FoH was the first to kill the sleeper.It to bad the GM accused us of Exploiting and took mobs. Please know the facts before you but crap on the forum.

Ronas
09-05-2010, 05:26 AM
Hate break your Bubble dude,But FoH was the first to kill the sleeper.It to bad the GM accused us of Exploiting and took mobs. Please know the facts before you but crap on the forum.

Hate to burst your bubble, but he was right in terms of the community knowing that sleeper was first pwned by ralloz zek because it was boardcasted across all servers at the time, so STFU

UncleDread
09-05-2010, 10:09 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but he was right in terms of the community knowing that sleeper was first pwned by ralloz zek because it was boardcasted across all servers at the time, so STFU

Are you a complete freaking idiot? FoH was on RZ.Dang wish you noobs would go back WoW freaking kids..:D

azeth
09-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Are you a complete freaking idiot? FoH was on RZ.Dang wish you noobs would go back WoW freaking kids..:D

Lol, no FoH was not on RZ.

Cykubis
09-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Lol, no FoH was not on RZ.

Fires of Heaven (who did not kill the Sleeper) = not Rallos Zek
Flowers of Happiness (who never saw Sleeper's Tomb) = Rallos Zek

Ridiuz
09-05-2010, 01:13 PM
Hate break your Bubble dude,But FoH was the first to kill the sleeper.It to bad the GM accused us of Exploiting and took mobs. Please know the facts before you but crap on the forum.

Wow dude, do your research before you make a fool out of yourself and flame someone. This quote was grabbed directly from Wikipedia when I searched everquest.

"Kerafyrm - The Sleeper

Sleeper at 14%Kerafyrm, "The Sleeper", is a dragon boss in the original The Sleeper's Tomb zone.

While sleeping, Kerafyrm is guarded by four ancient dragons (warders) in "The Sleeper's Tomb". When all four dragons are defeated by players and are dead at the same time, The Sleeper awakes, triggering a rampage of death. Kerafyrm travels through and into multiple zones from The Sleeper's Tomb to Skyshrine, killing every player and NPC in his path. This event is unique in EverQuest, as it only occurs once on each game server. Once The Sleeper awakes, neither he nor the original guardians will ever appear again on that server, unless the event is reset.

As of 12 July 2008, Kerafyrm remains asleep on both the Al'Kabor (Macintosh) server and the official Test Server.

Originally intended to be unkillable, SOE prevented a raid of several guilds on Rallos Zek server from potentially killing him because of a bug. SOE later apologized for interfering,[39] and allowed the players to retry the encounter.

"Kerafyrm The Awakened" appears in the expansion Secrets of Faydwer as part of a raid event "Crystallos, Lair of the Awakened" in the instanced zone of "Crystallos."

And if you think Wikipedia is fake, here is another story from mmocrunch.com http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/

I can keep googling all these sources all day long. ;)

Tiggles
09-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Wow dude, do your research before you make a fool out of yourself and flame someone. This quote was grabbed directly from Wikipedia when I searched everquest.

"Kerafyrm - The Sleeper

Sleeper at 14%Kerafyrm, "The Sleeper", is a dragon boss in the original The Sleeper's Tomb zone.

While sleeping, Kerafyrm is guarded by four ancient dragons (warders) in "The Sleeper's Tomb". When all four dragons are defeated by players and are dead at the same time, The Sleeper awakes, triggering a rampage of death. Kerafyrm travels through and into multiple zones from The Sleeper's Tomb to Skyshrine, killing every player and NPC in his path. This event is unique in EverQuest, as it only occurs once on each game server. Once The Sleeper awakes, neither he nor the original guardians will ever appear again on that server, unless the event is reset.

As of 12 July 2008, Kerafyrm remains asleep on both the Al'Kabor (Macintosh) server and the official Test Server.

Originally intended to be unkillable, SOE prevented a raid of several guilds on Rallos Zek server from potentially killing him because of a bug. SOE later apologized for interfering,[39] and allowed the players to retry the encounter.

"Kerafyrm The Awakened" appears in the expansion Secrets of Faydwer as part of a raid event "Crystallos, Lair of the Awakened" in the instanced zone of "Crystallos."

And if you think Wikipedia is fake, here is another story from mmocrunch.com http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/

I can keep googling all these sources all day long. ;)

I think he is either trolling you or he is retarded and thinks that anything in current EQ means anything to anyone.

UncleDread
09-05-2010, 04:20 PM
Lol, no FoH was not on RZ.




Yes Noob Flowers of Happiness were in Rallos Zek.You a complete noob like your guild is?:D

UncleDread
09-05-2010, 04:22 PM
Wow dude, do your research before you make a fool out of yourself and flame someone. This quote was grabbed directly from Wikipedia when I searched everquest.

"Kerafyrm - The Sleeper

Sleeper at 14%Kerafyrm, "The Sleeper", is a dragon boss in the original The Sleeper's Tomb zone.

While sleeping, Kerafyrm is guarded by four ancient dragons (warders) in "The Sleeper's Tomb". When all four dragons are defeated by players and are dead at the same time, The Sleeper awakes, triggering a rampage of death. Kerafyrm travels through and into multiple zones from The Sleeper's Tomb to Skyshrine, killing every player and NPC in his path. This event is unique in EverQuest, as it only occurs once on each game server. Once The Sleeper awakes, neither he nor the original guardians will ever appear again on that server, unless the event is reset.

As of 12 July 2008, Kerafyrm remains asleep on both the Al'Kabor (Macintosh) server and the official Test Server.

Originally intended to be unkillable, SOE prevented a raid of several guilds on Rallos Zek server from potentially killing him because of a bug. SOE later apologized for interfering,[39] and allowed the players to retry the encounter.

"Kerafyrm The Awakened" appears in the expansion Secrets of Faydwer as part of a raid event "Crystallos, Lair of the Awakened" in the instanced zone of "Crystallos."

And if you think Wikipedia is fake, here is another story from mmocrunch.com http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/

I can keep googling all these sources all day long. ;)

Again noob know your fact I was there FoH were the first to kill The Sleeper and were accussed of exploiting to kill him..SO please STFU

Lazortag
09-05-2010, 05:05 PM
Yes Noob Flowers of Happiness were in Rallos Zek.You a complete noob like your guild is?:D

Azeth may be an idiot, but Darkwind is tight, and I respect them.

Ridiuz
09-05-2010, 05:29 PM
Again noob know your fact I was there FoH were the first to kill The Sleeper and were accussed of exploiting to kill him..SO please STFU

awww poor baby is gonna cry because he didn't kill the sleeper first. QQ :'(

Ridiuz
09-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Wudan represent! sadly I couldn't stay to the end, and was pretty much fed up after night 1. I left when Kerafym was still at around 60-63 =\. God was is still pretty epic. (fuzinii, bard of Wudan!)

Fistss - 50 Monk

Oh heck ya it was epic, I stayed for the entire duration while having 2 of my buddies on 3 way lol. My cleric was Scryb from Comet Nosce, and my brother Zidius which took all the screenshots was Destiny of Zek which was KoS to half the server ha. Good to hear from another RZ player, I had a few friends on Wudan.

Ronas
09-05-2010, 06:21 PM
Are you a complete freaking idiot? FoH was on RZ.Dang wish you noobs would go back WoW freaking kids..:D

Read the title of the thread, first server you freaken retard

ryuut1
09-05-2010, 06:38 PM
who cares

eqdruid76
09-06-2010, 06:37 AM
The QQ that followed when there was no loot was 1000x better than the kill itself.

Marsinger
09-06-2010, 12:10 PM
iirc Fires of Heaven was Veeshan server, and Flowers of Happiness was Sullon Zek (I used to enjoy reading Fansy the Famous Bard blog). Here's a link to the Fansy stories if you've never read them: http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php

The Rallos Zek zergfest is the first (and only) in my memory to actually kill the sleeper. To my knowledge the Sleeper still isn't awoken on Al'Kabor server (the EQ mac server)

There was one guild that tried before the Rallos Zek event. "Conquest" I'm sure you'll remember the mass hysteria that ensued.

Lazortag
09-06-2010, 02:00 PM
So after the Sleeper died, did you guys all kill eachother.. you know.. since it was a PVP server?

lauremore
09-06-2010, 04:46 PM
So after the Sleeper died, did you guys all kill eachother.. you know.. since it was a PVP server?

Ahh the sounds of a jealous bluebie wishing he could have as much fun as we did. Go hide behind your blue tag and train,bluebie.


That sleeper kill took so damn long. I was there on my ranger Vegetoe. It was hella fun though.

nalkin
09-06-2010, 05:14 PM
bluebies afraid to leave his blue. bluebies afraid to leave his blue. BLUEBIES AFRAID TO LEAVE HIS BLUE.

Kluren
09-06-2010, 05:17 PM
First, Rallos Zek may have been the "best" pvp server but it most certainly was not the most challenging. The most challenging pvp server was SULLON ZEK.

Second, that UI is disgusting.

Dantes
09-06-2010, 05:24 PM
who cares

This.

Lazortag
09-06-2010, 05:33 PM
Ahh the sounds of a jealous bluebie wishing he could have as much fun as we did. Go hide behind your blue tag and train,bluebie.

???

guineapig
09-06-2010, 06:54 PM
How long did the corpse stay there? I thought the timer is like 30 seconds if there is no loot or does it work differently with boss mobs?

Ridiuz
09-06-2010, 06:56 PM
First, Rallos Zek may have been the "best" pvp server but it most certainly was not the most challenging. The most challenging pvp server was SULLON ZEK.

Second, that UI is disgusting.

Come on now... I understand the limitations of only being able to pvp, and group with people of your own faction. But atleast you didn't have to worry about getting your gear jacked from you when you got PK'd. Dude from 6-30 my cleric was almost full cloth with some crappy earings/rings that I didn't mind if they got jacked. After I hit 30 I spent an ENTIRE month in Skyshrine camping Guardian Armor because it was No Drop. Do you think dying and losing experience was reason to rage enough? Try getting PK'd and losing your brand new chest piece you bought for 500pp! lol

Man I was a pro when it came to bagging my gear when a PK was kicking my ass. Now Rallos Zek is a real mans server where you seperate the boys from the men. ;)

Itchybottom
09-06-2010, 06:56 PM
How long did the corpse stay there? I thought the timer is like 30 seconds if there is no loot or does it work differently with boss mobs?

Someone during the Kerafyrm kill (second one, with GM not depopping) handed him a cloth cap at engagement. Corpse wasn't empty.

guineapig
09-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Someone during the Kerafyrm kill (second one, with GM not depopping) handed him a cloth cap at engagement. Corpse wasn't empty.

That would explain it. Thanks!

ukaking
09-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I fought Flowers of Happiness many times on Rallos Zek. My guild fought them in Lake of Ill Omen, The Overthere and Warsilks Woods many many times.
As for it being the toughest server, I'd have to agree. Knowing you can lose your gear was FRIGHTFUL.

applesauce25r624
09-06-2010, 08:37 PM
most geekly thread ever

Threepoint
09-07-2010, 01:56 AM
Come on now... I understand the limitations of only being able to pvp, and group with people of your own faction. But atleast you didn't have to worry about getting your gear jacked from you when you got PK'd. Dude from 6-30 my cleric was almost full cloth with some crappy earings/rings that I didn't mind if they got jacked. After I hit 30 I spent an ENTIRE month in Skyshrine camping Guardian Armor because it was No Drop.

That's why RZ was the lamestpvp server. Along with the fact you had blacklists for people who actually participated (and had anti pk guilds w/e the fuck that means) in pvp and you had a 4 level range iirc.

Tallon/Vallon with coin loot only and 8 level range was the best. That is, until people started xteaming and pande took over.

Rallyd
09-07-2010, 01:08 PM
I was playing Shadowseed (Wudan) and my brother was playing Zebis (Wudan)
during this encounter, was present for both days, hell of a fight.

For the record it was not bind rush, it was rez stick rush, 21 clerics spamming rez sticks to keep ahead of the DT's.

Pick up your weapons, and start hitting til you die, that was the strat.

This is one of the fondest memories of any MMO that we have to this day.

PhelanKA
09-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Are you a complete freaking idiot? FoH was on RZ.Dang wish you noobs would go back WoW freaking kids..:D

Uh, no. FoH was a Veeshan guild. Get your facts straight before go making yourself look like a fool.

If you think you know your RZ history then name the guild that took down Naggy and Vox first on RZ. For bonus points name the guild leader.

kenzar
09-07-2010, 04:11 PM
Uh, no. FoH was a Veeshan guild. Get your facts straight before go making yourself look like a fool.

this has been addressed, the confusion is that this thread is about RZ and FoH on RZ = Flowers of Happiness, a weak griefing noob pvp guild.

If you think you know your RZ history then name the guild that took down Naggy and Vox first on RZ. For bonus points name the guild leader.

and no one cares about your points, you can keep them all to yourself.

Smuuglie
09-07-2010, 11:12 PM
this has been addressed, the confusion is that this thread is about RZ and FoH on RZ = Flowers of Happiness, a weak griefing noob pvp guild.


Lol... A guild that still made history in a way many other guilds didnt. Not a fan, but I have to say, Fansy was geniously childish at what he did :)

Edit: Early Flowers were not lowbies that ganked too... Blart was a fearsome shaman...

Taxi
09-08-2010, 05:52 AM
Ahh the sounds of a jealous bluebie wishing he could have as much fun as we did. Go hide behind your blue tag and train,bluebie.


That sleeper kill took so damn long. I was there on my ranger Vegetoe. It was hella fun though.

Wow do you remember shezmaloo? I think i gave you 3k when i left lol

Bithynia
09-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Thank you for posting these screenies! It's stories like this that made me jump in headfirst to EQ! :D

liveitup1216
09-19-2010, 11:06 PM
nothing on RZ can compare to the utter poopfest that was SZ.

sullon truly attracted all the scum EQ could offer, and it was the grandest time in my gaming career ever.

Fairwell
09-21-2010, 02:39 AM
Rallos was that was dissputed a LONG LONG LONG time ago. Dont bring up past bs when u know for a fact That AD raped sleepers face. PROUD AD Fairwell Druid of old.

Fawqueue
09-21-2010, 03:38 AM
Hate break your Bubble dude,But FoH was the first to kill the sleeper.It to bad the GM accused us of Exploiting and took mobs. Please know the facts before you but crap on the forum.

Pics or it didn't happen?

HippoNipple
09-23-2010, 06:01 PM
That's why RZ was the lamestpvp server. Along with the fact you had blacklists for people who actually participated (and had anti pk guilds w/e the fuck that means) in pvp and you had a 4 level range iirc.

Tallon/Vallon with coin loot only and 8 level range was the best. That is, until people started xteaming and pande took over.

Rallos is not lame. It's different and some can't handle it. Item loot is a lot different than just player vs player, its a whole other game. It effects every aspect of the game.

Being able to attack ANYONE you want and be able to take items is 10x as hardcore as moving the 4 level limit to 8. Coin loot means there is minimal risk.

Rallos = hardcore pvp

All the others were fun PvP but it didn't effect the game play the same way.

For you to say Rallos was lame because it had an anti pk list is weak, it should just tell you how hardcore it was. It's not like the community was that much different from the other servers, thats just how it adapted because of how tough the server was.

Instead of the game telling you who your enemies/allies were, the community decided it on their own and there was the option to be a traitor and change sides. Manipulation, backstabbing, true loyalty, all things that were on the Rallos Zek server that the others didn't have.

Sigmastorm
09-24-2010, 05:31 AM
who cares

bump

Blackmeth
09-24-2010, 01:20 PM
Man i remember this going across the servers. If i remember right the sleeper didnt drop anything once dead.. but all those in the Raid got a spechal Tag. the rummer i remember was that Sony didnt expect that many people to gather to drop him and didnt complete the story line .. after that they made it so that he couldnt be awakened on anyother server and also despawed the guardians perminatly.. i can be wrong on that .. its been what 7 years now lol .. damn the good old days

Ridiuz
09-24-2010, 03:16 PM
Rallos is not lame. It's different and some can't handle it. Item loot is a lot different than just player vs player, its a whole other game. It effects every aspect of the game.

Being able to attack ANYONE you want and be able to take items is 10x as hardcore as moving the 4 level limit to 8. Coin loot means there is minimal risk.

Rallos = hardcore pvp

All the others were fun PvP but it didn't effect the game play the same way.

For you to say Rallos was lame because it had an anti pk list is weak, it should just tell you how hardcore it was. It's not like the community was that much different from the other servers, thats just how it adapted because of how tough the server was.

Instead of the game telling you who your enemies/allies were, the community decided it on their own and there was the option to be a traitor and change sides. Manipulation, backstabbing, true loyalty, all things that were on the Rallos Zek server that the others didn't have.

Can I get an AMEN! Rallos Zek FTW

taxi2
09-24-2010, 03:57 PM
Come on now... I understand the limitations of only being able to pvp, and group with people of your own faction. But atleast you didn't have to worry about getting your gear jacked from you when you got PK'd. Dude from 6-30 my cleric was almost full cloth with some crappy earings/rings that I didn't mind if they got jacked. After I hit 30 I spent an ENTIRE month in Skyshrine camping Guardian Armor because it was No Drop. Do you think dying and losing experience was reason to rage enough? Try getting PK'd and losing your brand new chest piece you bought for 500pp! lol

Man I was a pro when it came to bagging my gear when a PK was kicking my ass. Now Rallos Zek is a real mans server where you seperate the boys from the men. ;)

I rolled a toon first on Sullon. Ill take losing a piece of gear and having to try to find no drop gear any day of the week over getting corpse camped by a lvl45 wizard in Blackburrow, which is what happened to me and made me switch to RZ. RZ was cool as hell but lets not kid ourselves here, SZ was much harder to play on.

As for Pk/anti-pk its simple. View it as "good vs evil". I was an Anti-pk. That doesnt mean i didnt pvp. It meant that guilds like flowers of happiness were KOS to me. I had that list people talked about. Someone killed or attempted to kill me, he was then added to the KOS list. I had plenty of people to kill only days after starting out so again its not like anti-pk meant anti-pvp.

loneless999
09-24-2010, 06:25 PM
i remember this was in the bazaar was chatting in the serverwide necro channel and someone said RZ were doing sleeper so i joined another channel filled with people all wetting them selves over the fact he might be killed and what he might drop was exiting

on a side note there must have been some people casting rain spells over sleeper for fun
and people setteling some scores getting him hits in on other players

Japan
09-24-2010, 06:45 PM
Anti-PKs were probably the best thing about RZ. I doubt we're going to see a PK vs anti-PK dynamic like that in MMO gaming ever again, unfortunately.

Dagwulf
09-24-2010, 10:12 PM
Agree post above.

Holey
09-25-2010, 03:39 AM
but eq pvp sucks :/

Badmartigan
10-07-2010, 08:01 PM
I was Zeirus and Soqu on Rallos zek =p

Ploppy
10-08-2010, 11:07 AM
Rallos was not the first to kill the Sleeper. ITZLESPLOITS 4 Life!!

Ploppy
10-08-2010, 11:14 AM
The original guy that said it was correct. Another NON RALLOS GUILD did indeed kill the Sleeper, but they did so using the infamous Z-Axis bug. It was declared an exploit by the GM's and that was that. I like how all you guys with no real idea are telling the other guy he's wrong though. The giuld that first killed sleeper was on Lanys T'Vyl I believe. It may have been Vazaelle, but I am pretty sure it's Lanys they were on

Excision Rottun
10-08-2010, 01:40 PM
Rallos was not the first to kill the Sleeper. ITZLESPLOITS 4 Life!!



From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:22 PM
To: bmcquaid@station.sony.com; avancourvering@station.sony.com;
jbutler@station.sony.com; mbutler@station.sony.com
Subject: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001

"the "z" coordinate and its nullification of NPC's ability to summon" - We did no such thing.

It appeared to people watching the battle that the NPC wasn't summoning the players it was most angry at. We later went into the zone and were able to find a spot under the bridge where the NPC wouldn't summon you but also wouldn't hit you for significant periods of time (it would occasionally become 'unstuck' and resume summoning).

"and multiple atmospheres (e.g. water/land)" - Again, we did no such thing.

My understanding is that the warder's breath weapon was bugged and wouldn't affect players under the water, nor those with res effects.

"they could attack without getting hit back for the vast majority of the time that it took to kill the monster" - Again, false. The dragon was hitting Itzlegend for nearly the entire duration of the fight. The short periods of time he wasn't hitting Itzlegend was taken by the times he was killing the clerics that he had summoned to himself.

Again, this was not what was observed, but rather that the dragon was angry at the clerics under the bridge but would not summon them, but also wasn't hitting them. We later reproduced this in the zone ourselves.

"for 75% or more of the time that it took to kill the encounter, the monster got beaten on and was not able to fight back." - Again, a blatant fabrication. If you would like us to recreate the encounter and show you exactly what we did, we will be happy to do so.

It's also probably worth noting that what alerted GMs to the scene were reports that 28 or so players were defeating mobs that DOUBLE that many had trouble defeating.

"the "human figures" in some screenshots are a result of the screenshot taker not patching" - Also untrue unless you're referring to a patch that has not yet been released.

I've not seen it yet myself, and will look tomorrow, but my understanding is that the Sleeper's model only appears after one uses the optional Velious patch, and that the graphics for that model are available now via patch.

-Brad






From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:28 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Brad,

Thank you for your reply. I respectfully disagree with the statements you made both in public, and in your message to me. I further ask that you allow us to prove our statements by recreating the fight for you so that you can see that we are being truthful.


>It appeared to people watching the battle that the NPC wasn't summoning the players it was most angry at. We later went into the zone and were able to find a spot under the bridge where the NPC wouldn't summon you but also wouldn't hit you for significant periods of time (it would occasionally become 'unstuck' and resume summoning).

Then I suggest to you that the observer(s) didn't know enough about what was going on to have an intelligent opinion. If you found the existence of such a location, I commend you, but we had, and still have no idea where such a place is. As you will see by our guild chat, there was at no time any instruction given to anyone to "stand RIGHT HERE and don't move", or "Stay on the safe spot" or anything of that nature.


>My understanding is that the warder's breath weapon was bugged and wouldn't affect players under the water, nor those with res effects.

Your understanding is partially flawed. We had no players under the water because it does persistent damage when you touch it. If the breath weapon doesn't affect you there, I would assume it's because the bridge is blocking LOS.

The warder's breath weapon certainly was not affecting players under res effects, and we were well aware of that fact. Indeed it was the reason the clerics were "chain ressing" the melee during the battle (a tactic, I might add, that not only heals the recipient of the resurrection, but also creates zero aggro for the casting cleric). Does this mean that in the future players are not allowed to resurrect the fallen during encounters with this creature for fear of disciplenary action, or will you fix the stacking so that this spell will indeed stack with res effects?

This is not the first time that players have used the rules of spell stacking to their advantage, but it is the first time that 26 people have been suspended, and 2 others have been banned for it without so much as a tap on the shoulder and a "Hey... you guys need to cut that out" from a GM. It is certainly the first time we have ever used the tactic, and while we considered the tactic an "Itzploit", we did not consider it an "Exploit". FYI, we also consider using tanks and casters with invulnerable disciplines/spells up versus proximity mobs to be an "Itzploit".


>Again, this was not what was observed, but rather that the dragon was angry at the clerics under the bridge but would not summon them, but also wasn't hitting them. We later reproduced this in the zone ourselves.

Then I submit to you that the observer was ill suited to make an informed statement as to what was happening. That is not what we experienced. What we experienced was our clerics, Caduseus and Sauw didn't get their COH in time, and were summoned and killed. Yes, we were using the fact that COH wipes aggro to control cleric aggro. Is that an exploit? What we also experienced is that when the battle was over, and Itzlegend and his clerics were dead, none of the clerics under the bridge had any aggro at all.


>It's also probably worth noting that what alerted GMs to the scene were reports that 28 or so players were defeating mobs that DOUBLE that many had trouble defeating.

I fail to see how this is relevant. We came up with a plan that others didn't, and we thought it was working, even though we lost the encounter.


>I've not seen it yet myself, and will look tomorrow, but my understanding is that the Sleeper's model only appears after one uses the optional Velious patch, and that the graphics for that model are available now via patch.

Perhaps when you go to look you should do so on a "clean machine". That is, a machine that you install with a fresh copy of EverQuest, and that you patch using the same method that the rest of us do. After reading your public statement, I checked all of my optional patch buttons, and I received no new files from any of them. I was the taker of most of the screenshots that have been made public.


Thank you for taking the time to respond to my message. I hope that you and I can have a meaningful dialog regarding this. I again ask ask that you allow us to prove our statements by recreating the fight for you so that you can see that we are being truthful. All we are asking for is a chance to prove that of all your accusations, the use of res effects in our favor is the only one that rings with any bit of truth. What have you got to lose?

-Gtath






From: McQuaid, Brad [mailto mcquaid@verant.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 3:36 PM
To: 'Gtath'
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


I'm determined to get to the bottom of this and understand all that went on fully. Should you be my point of contact? Are you willing to talk by phone if necessary? Can you keep this pretty much between us until we get to the bottom of it all?

--

---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Vice President, Premium Games
Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive
---------------------------------------------







From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 4:07 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad
Cc: "Itzlegend"
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


I'll be happy to be your point of contact in the absence of anyone else. I'm not an officer or tactician for the guild, so let me try to get one of those people involved before you decide on me as your point of contact. I'm more than willing to use whatever form of communication you prefer, and have up to this point kept our communications confidential, save for posting your message to me, and my response to it in our private forum.

I'm copying this message to (RL name removed), who plays the character Itzlegend, and is the leader of our guild. (RL name removed), please respond to this message, I believe it represents a good faith effort on Brad's part to have two way communication on this issue instead of issuing multiple public statements. I think you're the one best suited to speak on behalf of the guild.







-----Original Message-----
From: McQuaid, Brad [mailto: bmcquaid@verant.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:57 PM
To: 'Gtath'; McQuaid, Brad
Cc: "Itzlegend"; Butler, Jeff
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Hi guys,

Just to let you know, I've personally spent many hours today and yesterday investigating what apparently happened that night you were all suspended. It was complicated enough that I involved all sorts of people: the GMs who witnessed the event, Jeff Butler who also witnessed the event, Kendrick who designed the zone, the programmers who wrote the AI NPC code, and the GM who is in charge of investigating and recreating these events. I also read through both the logs you've provided and our logs of the event (which show the battle, the status and location of the mob, who he was mad at, where he was trying to go, how many HP he had, etc.).

First, I'll say that our original public statement was too vague and it also contained a mistake on our part: it turns out the data on the live servers WAS wrong such that the sleeper when awakened did NOT show the correct model (and instead displayed the default model, the male human). We apologize for this.

That said, our investigation and logs have lead us to creating the following account of what we believe took place and the methods by which the encounter was exploited. If you feel any of these are in error or are inaccurate, please feel free to respond accordingly.

The exploits were performed as follows:

1. Garner high amounts of hate on PCs who are positioned in a location the NPC cannot walk to (in this case, under the bridge).
2. Begin attack
3. NPC then takes enough damage to start summoning
4. Players who are summoned (once every 18 seconds) immediately jump off bridge, returning to the safe point (knowing NPC is unable to damage them, follow them there, or summon for another 18 seconds.
5. During this cycle, the other PCs who are not on the top of the hate list get multiple free rounds of attack without fear of retaliation
6. In the rare event that the topside PCs generate enough hate to get turned on, they are Call of Hero'd or Resurrected out of danger.
7. In summary, the key to this exploit is that during the majority of the 18 seconds the NPC is waiting for his summon to recycle, he is unable to follow and/or damage the PC he wants to kill, creating an opportunity for the other PCs to deal free damage.

This is safe zone exploitation, similar to standing on a wall and blowing up an NPC who cannot reach you because of a pathing bug, the only difference being that in this particular case every 18 seconds the NPC had a brief albeit ineffectual opportunity to deal damage.

In addition, the majority of PCs in the immediate area have spell effects (e.g. the res effect, snare, etc.) that render them immune to the NPC's area breath weapon, further enabling them to deal damage to the NPC with impunity
as well as offer support to the other PCs in the area.

--

---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Vice President, Premium Games
Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive
---------------------------------------------







-----Original Message-----
From: Itzlegend [mailto:itzlegend@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:42 PM
To: bmcquaid@verant.com
Cc: gtath@home.com; jbutler@verant.com
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Brad, that isnt an accurate account of our tactics and you know it. You can plainly see by looking at our chatlog that was NOT our intent and definatly not what we were attempting to pull off. In fact i made many statements about how we could keep the clerics off the list so they wouldnt be summoned in the first place - and so the mob would stay on me (the main tank).

Sure, what you said would work that way - the cleric MIGHT be able to get back off the bridge before dieing after a summon, only to be summoned up seconds later and promptly killed. It just isnt feasable - i.e. it would NOT work. Beyond that point we werent even attempting what you describe - how can you be banned for an exploit that doesnt even work? The only people able to maintain hate while jumping off the bridge is clerics and other healers. These people are also killed off quickly.

If you can really see who the mob is aggro on - then you can plainly see that 80% of the time that mob is aggro on ME.

If you are so convinced you have figured out the exploit - then simply try it yourself - because it WILL NOT WORK. Any priest class who is jumping off the bridge will be killed in very quick fassion. And any melee class who trys that would simply fall off the haste list in no time at all.

Im sure you have seen our sleepers video. I tanked first, second, and third warders 99% of the fights, with 3 clerics healing me. The 4th warders melee is NO MORE powerful then any of the others - quite weak to a warrior of my caliber in fact. With the clerics i had there in my group i can tank a warder for a solid 7-8 minutes with no chance of death.

This is so simple. The ENTIRE challenge of the fight (once the AE's were mitigated) was keeping the warders on ME the entire fight since i was having trouble holding up my aggro with the AE slow effecting me. If the warder was summoning clerics - we were LOSING. And never would have won useing those tactics, exploit or no. Again, HOW can you be banned for an exploit which DOES NOT WORK.

We fought this warder the EXACT same way we fought the other warders, accept for this one we kept rez effects on the tank.

-1 warrior (me) tanks.
-3 clerics, a bard, and a magician are in my group
-The rest of my group goes below the bridge to avoid the AE
-I build up hate before the rest of the melee add.
-The 3 clerics heal me, and occasionally get coh'd by the magician to keep
their aggro LOW
-Rest of the melee add, and kill while I get healed.

This is the strat we used for all 4 warders. Clerics can keep me alive NP, and with the melee immune to the damaging and slowing AE - we were able to do a decent chunk of damage. Why did we lose? Well, the people under the bridge got aggro'd , and summoned up and killed. We planned on trying again after i got some self-healing items to build up my own hate more, so that i could tank 100% and so the clerics wouldnt get killed.

You and I both know it isnt fair to ban 28 players for useing an exploit that doesnt even help you with victory.... even if we WERE trying to do what are you saying.

If you still think they are "exploitable" the way you say - please please just try it out yourself. If the clerics get summoned, you are SOL and will never win the fight. The mob does its AE's when it is meleeing (wont cast its AE from a distance like a spell). So your clerics will get quad 500+ most likely for 2 rounds of attacks and either a 750 DD or a 250dd silence which will stop them from being able to cast for a while. 1 summon will totally devistate even the best equiped clerics. 1 Summon will even devistate a melee if they dont have the proper system of heals allready in the process of being cast on them.

Could we have killed the 4th warder useing rez effects on tanks?

Yes, definatly. But it would have required the 4th warder being on the main tank 100% of the time. This exploit you speak of only means you are loseing the fight if it is working the way you say it is....

If any of this isnt coherant (i know i've rambled a bit) let me know and i will try to further elaborate on why, even if we were useing this exploit, it would only hurt the raid rather then help... please let me know.

-(Name deleted)







Brad and Jeff,

I would like to supplement (Itzlegend)'s comments if I may, and explain why what you allege here can't work.

The typical level 60 Conquest cleric has approximately 3500 hit points with maximum buffs, give or take a few hundred hit points. If a cleric is at the top, or even near the top of the Warder's hate list, that cleric will be receiving additional damage from the warder in the form of "rampage" attacks. As you know, rampage damage is applied to the top several PCs on the mob's hate list, and is applied to those targets regardless of where in the zone the targets happen to be. The result of each rampage, which happens every few seconds, is multiple 300-500 point attacks on the cleric. This damage, in combination with the rounds of melee damage that the warder would do after summoning and stunning the cleric would easily kill, within a single round of combat, any cleric unfortunate enough to try your plan.

There is clear evidence that what I say is accurate, because to my knowledge, the only player to survive long enough to jump back off the bridge after being summoned was Bakajikara, an ogre shaman. The reason he survived is because of the sheer number of hit points he has, combined with the fact that he can't be stunned from the front, allowed him to back up and fall off the bridge before the melee damage killed him. From my fuzzy recollection of that first fight, he died shortly thereafter to rampage damage. I know that I personally died on more than one occasion to the various warders as a result of taking rampage damage only.

In summary, even if the cleric is on the top of the hate list, and the dragon is trying to get to him, the cleric is taking damage in the form of rampage attacks. Damage which proves fatal for any cleric unfortunate enough to be summoned and melee'd by the dragon. What you allege will only work as long as we have enough clerics to keep throwing to the warder as sacrificial lambs. Using your tactic, our fight would have lasted a maximum of 1 minute 40 seconds, the time required for all clerics to be summoned and killed.

As I have said before, we would be more than willing to recreate the fight so that you can observe first hand what we did, and how we did it.

-Gtath







Hello again,

Well, we've taken into account your description of what happened combined with our logs and have come to more specific conclusions as to what occurred. Before I list them, however, I'm also trying to solve another problem, and that is why you all seem so confident you're not exploiting - I can only conclude that what you did in your minds wasn't exploiting a safe zone.

From approximately 20:46 to 21:07 we have the NPC on top of the bridge, aggro to several different members of the party, and NOT moving. Our logs indicate he wanted to move, but his x,y,z stays the same for over 15 minutes. This means he was stuck because of a pathing bug (no route to under the bridge). This pathing bug, btw, HAS been reproduced internally.

Then, some time after 21:07 the attack is called. Occasionally during the battle the aggro of the dragon would switch to the clerics under the bridge. When this happened, again, the mob could NOT walk down under the bridge and kill the clerics. It had to resort to summoning them (which, as you stated, is very dangerous to the cleric and what eventually warranted an abort) once every 18 seconds IF they were still most hated.

Here are the events in order as we are able to determine:

1. Tank aggros dragon
2. Tank retreats under bridge (safe zone).
3. THIS IS EXPLOIT #1. Tank probably uses items to gain hate during the approx. 15 minutes the dragon is stuck on the bridge (our logs indicate the dragon was attempting to move towards several players but it's coordinates were NOT changing - thus, those to whom it wanted to move were in the safe zone).
4. HP of the dragon is kept relatively full such that it doesn't summon. Once tank has sufficient hate built up, he signals to begin all out attack
5. Tank is then healed by clerics under the bridge as damage is being dealt to dragon. The strategy here is to keep the tank most hated so the dragon doesn't aggro the clerics. This is valid as long as if the clerics ARE aggro'd, the mob can move to them.
6. Clerics are immune from breath weapon as long as they remain under bridge (this is a valid tactic as long as the area is not a safe zone).
7. Once a cleric complete heals a couple of times, he is COH'd to relatively the same location (under the bridge) to remove hate. (We are not calling this an exploit, but COH might be changing in the future because this goes against the spell's intent).
8. When the group makes an error and a cleric is most hated, the dragon summons a cleric every 18 seconds or so, but does NOT move to the cleric, because they are in a safe zone. THIS IS EXPLOIT #2.

That you aborted once some clerics were summoned and silenced isn't relevant in our opinion. Also, that you consider you are losing once clerics are jumping off the bridge after being summoned isn't, in our opinion, relevant.


Now, again, the emails I've received from you two indicate to me that you don't believe you were exploiting. Perhaps you thought that since you hadn't attacked in force yet you were not exploiting? And then later because it could summon, you were not exploiting?

If this is so, please let me know. And of course please respond to anything in our account to find inaccurate.

Lastly, it is worth noting that using the stacking bug to nullify the effect of the breath weapon on the tank (which you freely admit to) is ALSO an exploit, albeit a less severe one, which in and of itself would probably have resulted in simple warnings. Coupled with exploiting the safe zone, however, is what led to the suspensions.

--

---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Vice President, Premium Games
Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive
---------------------------------------------







First, I'd like to apologize for beginning the last email with "that isnt what we were doing and you know it" I didnt mean it like that - which sounds like i was calling you a liar. What I meant, was you should be able to figure out that isnt what we were trying to do, based on screenshots and other evidence which you allready have at your disposal.

Ok, now we're rocking... We both understand eachothers point of view and we both understand the aggro issues.

Anyways, sorry it took so long to reply - I had people logging in to check the summoning time. 18 seconds seemed far too long.. It has been "common knowledge" at least in our guild, that a mob summons once per 10 seconds - and its true it seems. A friend logged in and got summoned 3 times by a mob before zoneing. This is the log:

[Fri Jun 08 20:07:46 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'
[Fri Jun 08 20:07:56 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'
[Fri Jun 08 20:08:07 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'

Twice for 10 seconds once for 11 (not sure why the difference here, maybe there is sometimes a small period of time when summon is "ready" and the mob just has to choose to use it). All mobs summon at the same frequency - im pretty sure on that. Feel free to test this yourself...

Im not trying to get you on technicalities here - but there is a large difference between 10 and 18 seconds.

However, you are going to say "it doesnt matter how much time", and for the sake of arguement i will agree to that now. You could, theoretically, make small blotches of time (1-2 seconds? or so - every 10 seconds...) where the mob doesnt melee useing the tactics you pointed out. I just wanted to clear that up... Because its pretty important in understanding why its useless to assume you can "exploit" this.

BTW, Im assuming that in order for something to be considered an "exploit" it has to benefit you... Or, as an alternate approach - I ask that you assume that we wouldnt be silly enough to use an exploit that would lower rather then increase our chances of winning...

Before going on let me clarify a few things about hate... based on your statement: gaining hate for 15 minutes.

Hate fact 1: All hate decays - and it decays rapidly on high level mobs. These mbos care about "who has made me angry recently" not "who has given me the most aggro total"

How to test this: Find that one mob that has 32k hp and regens 32k hp per tick. Do 50,000 damage to it over the course of 15 minutes or so. Then have someone else start doing damage to it. That person will not have to do anywhere near 50,001 damage before it switches off. This is even more true on end encounters.

Hate fact 2: Any and all hate over ~5 minutes old(I dont know the exact time, but it is around 5 minutes) is removed from the mob completly.

How to test this: When you found the safe spot in your tests, you probly noticed the mob would just get up and walk off after 5 minutes(forgetting you 100% completly)... if you bothered standing there long enough. In fact, you cant even keep the mob on the bridge for more then 5 minutes without 2 people aggro'd, and doing something to hold their individual aggro (i.e. healing eachother - or in the case of a bard, the bard just sings).

Hate fact 3: End encounter ubermobs will only add very VERY low amounts of hate from spells unless they are hurt (and in summoning mode).

How to test this with offensive spells: Have an invulnerable GM cast tashanian (a huge taunt spell) 50 times on the warder. Have a melee walk up and hit one time. Watch the warder attack the melee...

How to test with healing spells: Have one person aggro warder and jump off the bridge. Have a cleric ch them 10 times (have them use their entire mana pool). Have a melee fight the warder. Watch the warder turn on the melee after 15 seconds tops. Ok, so doing this can get you 15 seconds of free hits as a melee... What you need to look at, however, is how that mana can be (and was in our case) put to much better use. One cleric can keep me alive 120 seconds strait, with 0 chance of me dieing - with coh to clear their own aggro. This seems to be, by your admission, a non-issue though since having clerics at top of hate list serves no function other then to get yourselves killed.

Now allow me to respond to your email with this in mind...

>1. Tank aggros dragon
>2. Tank retreats under bridge (safe zone).
>3. THIS IS EXPLOIT #1. Tank probably uses items to gain hate during the approx. 15 minutes the dragon is stuck on the bridge (our logs indicate

Step 3 is 100% critical to this entire thing... The problem here, is it is impossible for me to have built hate while under there. First of all, no matter where u stand, you cant shoot arrows at the mob, so you can toss that idea out.. Useing offensive spells, such as blind orb from the CS fish, or bracer of fenin ro generate practically no aggro at all (see above).

You could build up some aggro with complete heal items tho. For example if a warrior bothered to do the soul fire quest they could complete heal themself to keep aggro - and it would probly last to maybe (if you're lucky) the dragon has had 15% of its life taken off. The problem with this? Just go through my saved logs... Not only did i not have a complete heal sword from befallen or a soulfire that night, but I HAVE NEVER owned either of those items, ever... It was just an idea i threw up in guildchat, so our clerics wouldnt keep getting summoned and killed, and to keep the mob on me. It is 100% impossible for me to have built aggro while the mob was standing there for 15 minutes (not to mention the logs should clearly show that i didnt....)

Also, if you check the logs, you should see the warder shout his aggro message every 5 minutes or so. This happens when the warders aggro list has been cleared 100% and it re-aggros on the bard.

>>THIS IS EXPLOIT #1

Are you trying to justify the suspending of 26 people and the banning of 2 because the mob, before the fight, was trying to get to someone it cant? If that is so - why arent the thousands and thousands of people who have ever been on a vox raid suspended when vox repeatedly tries to get to them, but cant - while they buff in the safe hall?

>4. HP of the dragon is kept relatively full such that it doesn't summon. Once tank has sufficient hate built up, he signals to begin all out attack

How exactly do you think I built up aggro? There are hundreds of warriors out there who would LOVE to know how to build a large amount of aggro at the beginning or before a fight... Currently the only method known is by useing a complete heal item - and like i said (and this should be easily verifyable) I didnt have one that night, and I have never owned one.

>5. Tank is then healed by clerics under the bridge as damage is being dealt to dragon. The strategy here is to keep the tank most hated so the dragon doesn't aggro the clerics. This is valid as long as if the clerics ARE aggro'd, the mob can move to them.

Why? Ok, i can see why, just not in this specific case... Mobs dont summon people unless they are out of their reach - so the "main tank" is rarely if ever summoned while they are fighting the warder. Thus, the very second a cleric is aggrod, they are summoned. Im also pretty sure that once summoned, none of our clerics survived unless they got a timely COH.

BTW, why wasnt this made known to the public?? And how do the nag or vox raids get away with this DAILY when they are doing the EXACT same thing. There was a big(huge) arguement a long time ago wether or not it was an exploit to have healers before the gates on nagefin, or in the safehall for vox. After a long time the general assumption was that it was perfectly fine since they could just summon. Heck, it is even a common tactic to manasieve vox while she is in her lair and cannot reach you.

>6. Clerics are immune from breath weapon as long as they remain under bridge (this is a valid tactic as long as the area is not a safe zone).

Same thing... Nag/vox... This is the very tactic which is all over the web for both of these dragons, and is WIDELY accepted as a perfectly valid tactic.

>7. Once a cleric complete heals a couple of times, he is COH'd to relatively the same location (under the bridge) to remove hate. (We are not calling this an exploit, but COH might be changing in the future because this goes against the spell's intent).

No.... if the mage was under the bridge when they COH'd, the cleric would be summoned to the very bottom of the world there (deep under the lava-water). The clerics were summoned back to the gate (the entrance to the warder area - this was so they would be out of range of the AE when coh'd - so they dont get silenced). Then they floated back down under the bridge with DMF up.

>8. When the group makes an error and a cleric is most hated, the dragon summons a cleric every 18 seconds or so, but does NOT move to the cleric, because they are in a safe zone. THIS IS EXPLOIT #2.

10 seconds but... Again, after getting summoned once - our clerics either

a) died
or
b) got coh'd just after getting summoned

There really is no in-between on sleepers tomb warders - clerics just cant take the hits. Yet running Back down the steps at nagefin, or back into the safe hall on nag or vox remains a perfectly valid tactic and isnt challenged by VI...

>That you aborted once some clerics were summoned and silenced isn't relevant in our opinion.

The clerics that were silenced, got hit while being under the bridge. Under the bridge doenst have a very big area where the AE doesnt hit - so with the melee pushing the dragon around, some of them got hit with the AE while down there. We didnt abort because clerics got silenced... silence only lasts like 15 seconds anyways iirc. We aborted because they were dieing.

>Also, that you consider you are losing once clerics are jumping off the bridge after being summoned isn't, in our opinion, relevant.

I cant recall any clerics jumping off the bridge, but assuming they did how isnt that relevant? You are saying that an exploit that doesnt help in the slightest is bannable? How can you justify that?

>Perhaps you thought that since you hadn't attacked in force yet you were not exploiting? And then later because it could summon, you were not exploiting?

Im defending us based on the assumption that you have to >>take advantage<< of game abnormalities in order to be suspended for exploitation and your guild disbanded. We did not TAKE ADVANTAGE of either of these abnormalities. When the mob was standing on the bridge for however long it was, we did not build up any hate, and we did NOT benefit from it any way. As far as later when it could summon, we did EVERYTHING in our power to prevent that abnormality - and didnt benefit in any way to that as well.

>Lastly, it is worth noting that using the stacking bug to nullify the effect of the breath weapon on the tank (which you freely admit to) is ALSO an exploit, albeit a less severe one, which in and of itself would probably have resulted in simple warnings. Coupled with exploiting the safe zone, however, is what led to the suspensions.

Cant refute this... However I would like to remind you of CT, Aarynar, Yelinak, and the third warder which were and some still are killed by dozens of guilds useing similar tactics with spell stacking. Yet no action is taken for this.

Fight logistics aside.. I hope with this email you can at least agree with me that the action taken against us was far overboard. Guilds arent supposed to be disbanded unless they have had previous incidents - yet we were disbanded on our first. The original punishment was supposed to a warning to everyone, and a suspention if people had prior warnings. Yet 15 minutes after we were removed from the zone we were then summoned to the arena and told our punishment was to be doubled, and that we were to be all suspended, and banned if we had previous warnings.

It is our understanding that this is precisely what a warning is designed to do: Inform the violator(s) that they are indeed breaking the rules. As far as we understand it, suspensions are reserved for those who have already received warnings, yet have ignored those warnings and continued their illegal activities. Finally, our understanding is that banning is reserved for those who habitually break the rules despite warnings and suspensions for *the same infractions*.

In our opinion, and apparently in the opinion of the public at large, the suspensions we have received, and in two cases, the bannings we have received, are not justified. After your own statement, "I can only conclude that what you did in your minds wasn't exploiting a safe zone" how can you honestly justify the punishment that has been delivered, particularly when in the guide handbook it clearly states:

"8.5.4.2 The key to determining wheter a person is exploiting is not in the activity, but int he intent. A player that is using a rain spell to kill masses of monsters may not know it's an exploit, but instead believe that this is simply the function of the spell. It is the responsibility of the Guide to educate the player and ensure that the intention to exploit is present."

-Itzlegend







Brad and Jeff,

I would again like to supplement (Itzlegend)'s statements, and I apologize if having comments from the two of us is confusing. Some of what I'm going to say here you will find in (Itzlegend)'s letter, since we collaborated on parts of it, but I feel that it is important to include them here, so that you can view them in the context in which they are intended. My focus at this point is conflict resolution, and not to prove who knows more about game mechanics.

In short, you have alleged three different exploits, one of which leads to our certain defeat, and the other two are consistently applauded or ignored by SOE employees. It is this long history of GM response (or non-response) to these tactics that led us to believe that we were not on the wrong side of the rules. You state that these items are indeed exploits, and naturally, you are the final arbiters (no pun intended) of what is and what is not an exploit. However, we do believe it is infinitely reasonable that we drew the conclusion that we were not breaking the rules, based on your company's long record of non-punishment of these tactics.

It is our understanding that this is precisely what a warning is designed to do: Inform the violator(s) that they are indeed breaking the rules. As far as we understand it, suspensions are reserved for those who have already received warnings, yet have ignored those warnings and continued their illegal activities. Finally, our understanding is that banning is reserved for those who habitually break the rules despite warnings and suspensions for *the same infractions*.

Now that the intensity of the moment has died down, we think that you can clearly see, as we can, that the punishment you have dispensed far exceeds the crimes you have determined we committed. We believe that if you choose to overturn the precedent set by your various GMs on these tactics, it is certainly your right to do so. If you do choose to do this, then one would think that we would certainly deserve only warnings for the events that took place in this incident since it would then become a case of you changing the rules, and then punishing us afterward.

In our opinion, and apparently in the opinion of the public at large, the suspensions we have received, and in two cases, the bannings we have received are not justified. After your own statement, “I can only conclude that what you did in your minds wasn't exploiting a safe zone” how can you honestly justify the punishment that has been delivered? As the Guide Handbook states: “8.5.4.2 The key to determining wheter a person is exploiting is not in the activity, but in the intent”.

Furthermore, it is our opinion that the disbanding of the guild based on this single incident is also unfair, as we were told by Michelle Butler "Should the guild have a history of problems on their record the guild will be disbanded." I'm sure you will agree that this single incident hardly qualifies as "a history of problems" and that the disbanding of the guild is also a bit extreme, given the facts.

On a final note, there are many statements you made in your public release that you have since retracted to us in private. We would appreciate it if you would either amend your letter to reflect your current position, or issue a second letter correcting the errors.

I would personally advocate issuing a joint statement detailing the findings of the investigation, the definition of our actions as "punishable exploits", and the resulting amended punishment. We think this would be a great way to highlight how the zone and its inhabitants are new in design, and the permissibility of older strategies and tactics need to be rethought. Conquest was wrong in assuming that older "borderline exploits" were allowed there, and SOE has been wrong in not equitably enforcing these rules within Sleeper's Tomb across all servers. We think that will resolve this issue with a great sense of decorum for both sides.

I would like to request that you consider this issue with haste, as our only guild Shadow Knight, Ralanan, is scheduled to participate in the BOTB tournament this weekend.

-Gtath








-----Original Message-----
From: McQuaid, Brad [mailto: bmcquaid@verant.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 11:27 PM
To: 'Itzlegend'; McQuaid, Brad
Cc: gtath@home.com; Butler, Jeff
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Hello,

First, comments to your email as follows:

> Anyways, sorry it took so long to reply - I had people logging in to check the summoning time. 18 seconds seemed far too long.. It has been "common knowledge" at least in our guild, that a mob summons once per 10 seconds - and its true it seems. A friend logged in and got summoned 3 times by a mob before zoneing. This is the log:
>
> [Fri Jun 08 20:07:46 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'
> [Fri Jun 08 20:07:56 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'
> [Fri Jun 08 20:08:07 2001] Andad Filla says 'You will not evade me Valent!'
>
> Twice for 10 seconds once for 11 (not sure why the difference here, maybe there is sometimes a small period of time when summon is "ready" and the mob just has to choose to use it). All mobs summon at the same frequency - im pretty sure on that. Feel free to test this yourself...

You're correct -- we were wrong there. Summon recycle times vary by zone, and Sleepers has a 10 second recycle to make it more difficult.


> Im not trying to get you on technicalities here - but there is a large difference between 10 and 18 seconds.

I agree, but I think there's an even bigger difference between 10 seconds and constant melee.


> However, you are going to say "it doesnt matter how much time", and for the sake of arguement i will agree to that now. You could, theoretically, make small blotches of time (1-2 seconds? or so - every 10 seconds...) where the mob doesnt melee useing the tactics you pointed out. I just wanted to clear that up... Because its pretty important in understanding why its useless to assume you can "exploit" this.

This is an area it's pretty hard to quantify -- that is, just HOW much of an advantage did it give you. Our opinion remains, though: if the dragon went under the bridge and attacked the clerics there directly, you'd have a significantly harder time keeping the tank alive.


> BTW, Im assuming that in order for something to be considered an "exploit" it has to benefit you... Or, as an alternate approach - I ask that you assume that we wouldnt be silly enough to use an exploit that would lower rather then increase our chances of winning...

I'll agree with that -- an exploit is using a bug to your advantage. It's still my opinion that in several cases here, that is exactly what you did.

** a seemingly accurate description of hate decay (I'm at home now, so I don't have all my people here to check this out), etc., deleted **

> Now allow me to respond to your email with this in mind...
>
> >1. Tank aggros dragon
> >2. Tank retreats under bridge (safe zone).
> >3. THIS IS EXPLOIT #1. Tank probably uses items to gain hate during the approx. 15 minutes the dragon is stuck on the bridge (our logs indicate
> Step 3 is 100% critical to this entire thing... The problem here, is it is impossible for me to have built hate while under there. First of all, no matter where u stand, you cant shoot arrows at the mob, so you can toss that idea out.. Useing offensive spells, such as blind orb from the CS fish, or bracer of fenin ro generate practically no aggro at all (see above).

We assume(d) you had items that healed, etc., allowing you to build up hate there. In fact, one of the GMs has been instructed to look at your character in the backups and examine your inventory. In the meantime, I'll take your word for it, however, that you did not.

> >>THIS IS EXPLOIT #1
>
> Are you trying to justify the suspending of 26 people and the banning of 2 because the mob, before the fight, was trying to get to someone it cant? If that is so - why arent the thousands and thousands of people who have ever been on a vox raid suspended when vox repeatedly tries to get to them, but cant - while they buff in the safe hall?

That is part of the justification, yes. As for players using similar tactics on Vox and Nagafen, we are aware they do, and my understanding is that players are warned for it, and repeat offenders are suspended. There is an important difference here, however: Vox and Nagafen have been done many times. What you were trying to do has not. Therefore, if you were to accomplish something this rare and difficult by exploit, you are cheapening the game for others far more than someone exploiting Vox or Nagafen. This fact influenced the severity of the punishment.

*more stuff about building up aggro deleted *


> >5. Tank is then healed by clerics under the bridge as damage is being dealt to dragon. The strategy here is to keep the tank most hated so the dragon doesn't aggro the clerics. This is valid as long as if the clerics ARE aggro'd, the mob can move to them.
>
> Why? Ok, i can see why, just not in this specific case... Mobs dont summon people unless they are out of their reach - so the "main tank" is rarely if ever summoned while they are fighting the warder. Thus, the very second a cleric is aggrod, they are summoned. Im also pretty sure that once summoned, none of our clerics survived unless they got a timely COH.

This is true. Summon was put in on higher-end mobs to make them more difficult to evade AND exploit. That said, getting one stuck so that he can only summon is not OK just because he can still summon. This is a very important point (and probably an area we're not seeing eye to eye on).

> BTW, why wasnt this made known to the public?? And how do the nag or vox raids get away with this DAILY when they are doing the EXACT same thing. There was a big(huge) arguement a long time ago wether or not it was an exploit to have healers before the gates on nagefin, or in the safehall for vox. After a long time the general assumption was that it was perfectly fine since they could just summon. Heck, it is even a common tactic to manasieve vox while she is in her lair and cannot reach you.

Again, to my knowledge, CS does enforce exploiting Vox or Nagafen as such. Again, however, I don't think the punishment is a severe because of the nature of the encounter.


> >6. Clerics are immune from breath weapon as long as they remain under bridge (this is a valid tactic as long as the area is not a safe zone).
>
> Same thing... Nag/vox... This is the very tactic which is all over the web for both of these dragons, and is WIDELY accepted as a perfectly valid tactic.

Understood, but if it's using a safe zone, it is still an exploit, regardless of which zone or which NPC is involved.


> >7. Once a cleric complete heals a couple of times, he is COH'd to relatively the same location (under the bridge) to remove hate. (We are not calling this an exploit, but COH might be changing in the future because this goes against the spell's intent).
>
> No.... if the mage was under the bridge when they COH'd, the cleric would be summoned to the very bottom of the world there (deep under the lava-water). The clerics were summoned back to the gate (the entrance to the warder area - this was so they would be out of range of the AE when coh'd - so they dont get silenced). Then they floated back down under the bridge with DMF up.

Agreed -- we were wrong there, overlooking the fact that you'd fall to the bottom of the world there. This was an assumption because the logs aren't THAT detailed.


> >8. When the group makes an error and a cleric is most hated, the dragon summons a cleric every 18 seconds or so, but does NOT move to the cleric, because they are in a safe zone. THIS IS EXPLOIT #2.
>
> 10 seconds but... Again, after getting summoned once - our clerics either
> a) died
> or
> b) got coh'd just after getting summoned
>
> There really is no in-between on sleepers tomb warders - clerics just cant take the hits. Yet running Back down the steps at nagefin, or back into the safe hall on nag or vox remains a perfectly valid tactic and isnt challenged by VI...

Again, I believe it IS challenged by us. I just called Michelle Butler and talked to her about this. When they do catch people exploiting Nagafen or Vox in this manner they are warned and often removed from the zone and told they can't do the dragon this spawn. If they are on record as repeat offenders in this area, they are suspended. She also said I was welcome to review warning and suspension logs for this on Monday, so I'll probably take a look at them then.


> >That you aborted once some clerics were summoned and silenced isn't relevant in our opinion.
>
> The clerics that were silenced, got hit while being under the bridge. Under the bridge doenst have a very big area where the AE doesnt hit - so with the melee pushing the dragon around, some of them got hit with the AE while down there. We didnt abort because clerics got silenced... silence only lasts like 15 seconds anyways iirc. We aborted because they were dieing.

Ok -- we got this from the guild chat logs, and it was hard to tell exactly why you aborted. I'll take your word for it.


> >Also, that you consider you are losing once clerics are jumping off the bridge after being summoned isn't, in our opinion, relevant.
>
> I cant recall any clerics jumping off the bridge, but assuming they did how isnt that relevant? You are saying that an exploit that doesnt help in the slightest is bannable? How can you justify that?

Again, we feel it WAS helpful, both before the main assault and during.


> >Perhaps you thought that since you hadn't attacked in force yet you were not exploiting? >And then later because it could summon, you were not exploiting?
>

> Im defending us based on the assumption that you have to >>take advantage<< of game abnormalities in order to be suspended for exploitation and your guild disbanded. We did not TAKE ADVANTAGE of either of these abnormalities. When the mob was standing on the bridge for however long it was, we did not build up any hate, and we did NOT benefit from it any way.
> As far as later when it could summon, we did EVERYTHING in our power to prevent that abnormality - and didnt benefit in any way to that as well.

Advantage before assault: Assuming you were not building up hate as well using items, it is still a huge advantage setting up logistically before the encounter. You were able to get everyone in place while the NPC was stuck. Perhaps you could explain from your perspective what you were doing for those 15 minutes and WHY you held the mob stuck there for 15 minutes before attacking?

Advantage during assault: The clerics (when they would reach the top of the hate list -- we realize you were doing your best to avoid this) were hit for far less damage because the dragon was not going under the bridge to melee them, but rather was just summoning them every 10 seconds or so.

> > >Lastly, it is worth noting that using the stacking bug to nullify the effect of the breath weapon on the tank (which you freely admit to) is ALSO an exploit, albeit a less severe one, which in and of itself would probably have resulted in simple warnings. Coupled with exploiting the safe zone, however, is what led to the suspensions.
>
> Cant refute this... However I would like to remind you of CT, Aarynar, Yelinak, and the third warder which were and some still are killed by dozens of guilds useing similar tactics with spell stacking. Yet no action is taken for this.

Detecting spell stacking is far harder for GMs to do than detecting safe zone violations. In fact, had Kendrick and Jeff Butler not been watching, this aspect of the event might have been missed for a while (they were more familiar with the encounter, the details of the dragon's breath weapon, etc.) So, unfortunately, punishment for spell stack exploitation probably does occur less often. This doesn't make it any less of an exploit though, and quite simply, it allowed the tank and others to deal MORE damage during the encounter than they were supposed to and receive less. This is why you were able to kill the other warders and get as far as you did with this one with FAR fewer players than the encounter was designed for.


> Fight logistics aside.. I hope with this email you can at least agree with me that the action taken against us was far overboard. Guilds arent supposed to be disbanded unless they have had previous incidents - yet we were disbanded on our first. The original punishment was supposed to a warning to everyone, and a suspention if people had prior warnings. Yet 15 minutes after we were removed from the zone we were then summoned to the arena and told our punishment was to be doubled, and that we were to be all suspended, and banned if we had previous warnings.

This really is the key here, guys. These encounters were designed for 60 or so players, and you were doing pretty well with 28 or so. Couple that with the fact that these encounters hadn't really been done before and are still very exotic (you guys knew this, which is why you were all so very excited to do this -- bragging rights, and such). This is why the punishment was as extreme as it was: multiple exploits used to prevail over some of the most exotic encounters in the game that are attempted VERY rarely. And it remains our opinion that exploiting these types of encounters severely cheapens the game experience for others. So we came down pretty hard on you all.

** argument that the punishment should be less than it was deleted -- I already addressed why I disagree **

Lastly, I'd like to point out a final factor that was taken into consideration when the severity of the punishment was devised. Let's look at the following guild chat snippet (which certainly is NOT taken out of context):

[Mon Jun 04 20:28:04 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'not if they nerf 3rd tomor ;( heh'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:21 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'they plan on nerfing 3rd?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:25 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'yes tommorow syc'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:27 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'this is our LAST CHANCE'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:29 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'gah fuggin BS'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:35 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'so lets make sure we do it tonight'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:36 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'so no snare sploit?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:39 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'nope'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:40 2001] Gtath told the guild, 'what are they doing to 3?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:44 2001] Gtath told the guild, 'Killing snare sploit?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:48 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'changing it so we cant snare sploit'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:49 2001] Kaetlyn told the guild, 'LoS! Rez! Pathing! Agro! With our powers combine, we summon forth ITZLEGEND!'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:56 2001] Caylen told the guild, 'hehe'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:56 2001] Caduseus told the guild, 'ROFL'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:57 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'we dont know that'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:00 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'its a rumor'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:09 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'i hope not sigh'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:12 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'dont go afk long'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:15 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'this isnt going to take long'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:21 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'we are just buffing healers and me'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:22 2001] Dashel told the guild, 'how would 3rd warder die then? zerg?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:29 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'it wouldnt'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:39 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'not without 60 people anyways'

This tells me:

1. You knew the snare bug is an 'exploit.'
2. You'd heard a rumor that we were going to fix it soon and therefore wanted to exploit it ASAP
3. That Itzlengend's 'clever tactics' include using pathing problems/bugs
4. That you knew the encounter would take 60 people were it approached conventionally

So, in summary, we feel:

1. You knew the spell stacking bug was an exploit and planned ahead of time to use it
2. You knew attacking the mob conventionally ('zerg'ing it -- I like the Starcraft reference would require 60 or so people, which, btw, is pretty close to exactly how many players the encounter WAS DESIGNED FOR.
3. You imply that Itzlegend in general uses pathing bugs as tactics
4. You used a safe zone prior to combat to position the target mob where you wanted him, and to allow you time to logistically set up your forces
5. You used a safe zone during combat such that your primary healers could only be summoned every 10 seconds or so as opposed to being melee'd. This gave you time to preemptively CoH and res people out of danger. Had the target mob been able to reach your forces under the bridge, the combat would have worked very differently.
6. You used a spell stacking bug to avoid the major effects of the target mob's area effect breath weapon, allowing you, amongst other things, to deal MUCH more damage over time to the target mob than was intended.

And, in making our determination as to the extent of the punishment, we used the following details:

1. The encounter in question is supposed to be one of the most difficult encounters in the game, designed for 60 or so level 55+ players, and could even semi-accurately be described as part of the game's 'end game' (were such a description valid for a game we keep adding content to
2. You knew this was a very exotic encounter, and you planned ahead of time to use exploit(s) you knew were exploits.

And, while we do believe that most in your guild probably did not expect punishment as severe, you DID expect us to do something were you discovered (I reference the guild chat where players mentioned that were you discovered doing this by a GM, he'd probably kick you out and shut down/reset the zone).

You must understand that this knowledge, the type of encounter, and the actual exploits used are all factors. Keep in mind that many game designers spent a lot of time setting up these final Sleeper encounters, and we feel a guild using exploits to take on these encounters with far fewer people than designed cheapens the encounter, and thus the experience for future guilds who might experience the encounter with a force capable of defeating the encounter without exploit.

Because of all this, I am very much inclined to let the disciplinary actions stand. I am also inclined to publicly post much of what I've disclosed to you because it bothers me greatly that this has turned into a situation where many of our players believe we acting wrongly, and out of malice, ignorance, or both.

If we are guilty of anything, it is not investigating the details to the extent that I have, and for posting some of the assumptions we made earlier on that were inaccurate. I also believe that our policy of not publicly commenting on warnings, suspensions, and bannings severely inhibits the flow of information such that many of our players don't know how seriously we view exploitation and how often and to what extent players ARE disciplined for exploiting. I intend on addressing these issues in the very near future by working with our CS department to revise some of our policies.

As always, please feel free to address these issues and make comment.

-Brad







-----Original Message-----
From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:07 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad; 'Itzlegend'
Cc: Butler, Jeff
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Brad,

> That is part of the justification, yes. As for players using similar tactics on Vox and Nagafen, we are aware they do, and my understanding is that players are warned for it, and repeat offenders are suspended. There is an important difference here, however: Vox and Nagafen have been done many times. What you were trying to do has not. Therefore, if you were to accomplish something this rare and difficult by exploit, you are cheapening the game for others far more than someone exploiting Vox or Nagafen. This fact influenced the severity of the punishment.

With all due respect Brad, if there is ever any disciplenary action taken during these encounters, it is extremely rarely. We feel that the target monster is irrelevant if you are going to be applying punishment to tactics used to defeat them. In short, you should punish all instances of a given tactic that you deem illegal, or you risk condoning their use by inaction, which is what we feel you did. It would be very difficult for you to argue that these instances are difficult to detect, because both Vox and Nagafen are killed within hours of the conclusion of each patch. Given the relative commonality of these kills, it's impossible to say that they aren't being punished because you don't know when or where they are happening.

> Detecting spell stacking is far harder for GMs to do than detecting safe zone violations. In fact, had Kendrick and Jeff Butler not been watching, this aspect of the event might have been missed for a while (they were more familiar with the encounter, the details of the dragon's breath weapon, etc.) So, unfortunately, punishment for spell stack exploitation probably does occur less often. This doesn't make it any less of an exploit though, and quite simply, it allowed the tank and others to deal MORE damage during the encounter than they were supposed to and receive less. This is why you were able to kill the other warders and get as far as you did with this one with FAR fewer players than the encounter was designed for.

Our argument here isn't that the spell stacking conflicts are missed because they are difficult to detect. Our problem with this statement is that spell stacking conflicts have been *applauded* by SOE employees, thereby giving them legitimacy in the eyes of all who play.

>This really is the key here, guys. These encounters were designed for 60 or so players, and you were doing pretty well with 28 or so. Couple that with the fact that these encounters hadn't really been done before and are still very exotic (you guys knew this, which is why you were all so very excited to do this -- bragging rights, and such). This is why the punishment was as extreme as it was: multiple exploits used to prevail over some of the most exotic encounters in the game that are attempted VERY rarely. And it remains our opinion that exploiting these types of encounters severely cheapens the game experience for others. So we came down pretty hard on you all.

We again think that the rarity of the encounter is irrelevant. If you are going to apply the rules, the rules should be applied consistently and regularly. The simple fact that they are not applied consistently and regularly significantly weakens your argument. We do agree with you that the punishment was, in your words, "extreme", and that you "came down pretty hard on" us.


>1. You knew the spell stacking bug was an exploit and planned ahead of time to use it
2. You knew attacking the mob conventionally ('zerg'ing it -- I like the Starcraft reference would require 60 or so people, which, btw, is pretty close to exactly how many players the encounter WAS DESIGNED FOR.
3. You imply that Itzlegend in general uses pathing bugs as tactics

We regularly use the terms, "exploit", "sploit", and "Itzploit" to describe tactics in the game that we feel are unique, and are not in regular use by others. Given this recent turn of events, I have a feeling that this habit will change.


>4. You used a safe zone prior to combat to position the target mob where you wanted him, and to allow you time to logistically set up your forces 5. You used a safe zone during combat such that your primary healers could only be summoned every 10 seconds or so as opposed to being melee'd. This gave you time to preemptively CoH and res people out of danger. Had the target mob been able to reach your forces under the bridge, the combat would have worked very differently.

I think it's obvious from our conversation here that we were unaware of the "safe zone" effect of our positioning. We think you will also agree that its benefit to our attempt was extremely minor. I refer you again to your previous quote, "I can only conclude that what you did in your minds wasn't exploiting a safe zone."

>6. You used a spell stacking bug to avoid the major effects of the target mob's area effect breath weapon, allowing you, amongst other things, to deal MUCH more damage over time to the target mob than was intended.

We have never disputed this, and as you say, we freely admit to it. We did not think this was as big of an issue as it is, since, as we have said before, similar conflicts have been used before, communicated to GMs, yet no action was ever taken. A prime example of this is Yelinak's AOE. As it began, Yelinak's AOE could be overwritten by Clarity. Players used this every time they fought him, and SOE employees were aware of this, yet no disciplenary action was ever taken. The only thing that happened was that the spell was changed so that Clarity would not overwrite it.
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:04 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'not if they nerf 3rd tomor ;( heh'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:21 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'they plan on nerfing 3rd?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:25 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'yes tommorow syc'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:27 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'this is our LAST CHANCE'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:29 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'gah fuggin BS'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:35 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'so lets make sure we do it tonight'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:36 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'so no snare sploit?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:39 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'nope'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:40 2001] Gtath told the guild, 'what are they doing to 3?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:44 2001] Gtath told the guild, 'Killing snare sploit?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:48 2001] Ketsui told the guild, 'changing it so we cant snare sploit'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:49 2001] Kaetlyn told the guild, 'LoS! Rez! Pathing! Agro! With our powers combine, we summon forth ITZLEGEND!'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:56 2001] Caylen told the guild, 'hehe'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:56 2001] Caduseus told the guild, 'ROFL'
[Mon Jun 04 20:28:57 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'we dont know that'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:00 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'its a rumor'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:09 2001] Sycotic told the guild, 'i hope not sigh'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:12 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'dont go afk long'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:15 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'this isnt going to take long'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:21 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'we are just buffing healers and me'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:22 2001] Dashel told the guild, 'how would 3rd warder die then? zerg?'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:29 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'it wouldnt'
[Mon Jun 04 20:29:39 2001] Itzlegend told the guild, 'not without 60 people anyways'

This is another exchange where I can use the Yelinak example as an explanation. Yelinak's AOE was overwriteable by Clarity. This was never punished, though it was known to SOE employees, instead the spell was merely changed in the next patch. That is what we were referring to for the lion's share of this exchange. As for Kaetlyn's comment, LOS isn't significant, Rez, we have already dealt with, Pathing refers to holding the monster in place, which we have already addressed, and Agro refers simply to aggro management, which we think is the key to most high level encounters.

> 1. The encounter in question is supposed to be one of the most difficult encounters in the game, designed for 60 or so level 55+ players, and could even semi-accurately be described as part of the game's 'end game' (were such a description valid for a game we keep adding content to
2. You knew this was a very exotic encounter, and you planned ahead of time to use exploit(s) you knew were exploits.

With these statements, you infer to us a level of knowledge of what is and is not acceptable that, by SOE's uneven application and in many cases your nonapplication of discipline, is simply unreasonable to infer. It is because of this that we feel the punishment is more severe than our actions warranted.

We have been extremely straightforward during this conversation, and we appreciate the dialog, and the chance to explain our side of the story, and yes, argue our points. We are also gratified that this incident has given you pause, and provided an opportunity for you to reevaluate, and possibly improve your communication with the community when disputes like this arise. I have no doubt that you will correct the inaccurate statements that you made in your public response, and I personally thank you for having put so much time and effort into researching this issue with us.

We would like to again request that you reverse your decision to disband the guild, since such punishment is reserved for, in the words of Michelle Butler, guilds that "have a history of problems on their record". I'm sure we can all agree that Conquest does not have a history of problems on its record, and that reinstating the guild would be an appropriate gesture of goodwill.
I think we're down to this, then:

>1. We both agree that you used 2 exploits
2. You didn't think they were a big deal, and felt you get mixed messages from us on how serious or not serious these exploits are perceived by us.
3. We feel that the context of the exploit (who is doing it, where they are doing it, and to what end) should influence the severity of the punishment. You don't, and think it should be uniform.
4. We feel several things said in guild chat imply that it is often your modus operendi to use exploits. You feel we are misunderstanding/taking out of context what was said.

I do appreciate as well the time you've taken and the civility and respect used in these email exchanges. Unfortunately, I still do not feel inclined to reverse anything for the reasons I've stated. Especially since I feel it is extremely likely that you used these 'tactics' on the easier warders and have the treausre from these encounters. It has crossed my mind that were you in good faith to return those items, we'd reinstate the guild.

I do need to make a public statement soon regarding our more detailed investigation, and hopefully our exchange with you. My idea is to include the last 2 or 3 email exchanges between us in the statement, and I'd like your permission to do so. Barring that, I'll just have to post my messages to you, but none of your comments, which might appear one sided. Please let me know if this (posting both our coments) is ok. We'd also replace any guild member names with Guild Member #1, #2, etc.

thanks,

-Brad








-----Original Message-----
From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:57 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad; 'Itzlegend'
Cc: Butler, Jeff
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001



>1. We both agree that you used 2 exploits

Not exactly. Yes we now consider them 'exploits' since you have explicitly defined them as such. At the time, one of them had been sanctioned by SOE employees, in our minds rendering it a 'tactic' versus an 'exploit'. The other we were not aware of, was minimally beneficial in our battle, and which you have agreed that you believe we were not aware of it. "I can only conclude that what you did in your minds wasn't exploiting a safe zone."

>2. You didn't think they were a big deal, and felt you get mixed messages from us on how serious or not serious these exploits are perceived by us.

Definitely. To reinforce this statement, I provide you with a quote from the message boards on this topic at lumthemad.com

"We killed 3 warders over this past weekend. Our Lead GM was present for the fights against #2 and #3, and he watched us place our clerics under the platform to heal safe from the AE silence from Tukaarak. He also watched us "buff" each and every member of our raid with Ensnare by dueling each other, because we knew that Stream of Acid could not take hold over Ensnare due to SoA having a lesser movement speed reduction. We then proceeded to kick Hraashna's ass with one death, and he congratulated us and went so far as to suggest that we go ahead and try Ventani before we left. It was very late, and we didn't feel like going through the motions of using res effects to kill her, so we just stuck the clerics below and charged to see how bad she was. Got her to about 85% and all died. We rezzed in and the GM was again laughing with/at us about how quickly she decimated us.

At no time did he ever say that we were doing something that we should not be, and in fact he said that his supervisor was watching at least some of the time, and he also seemed to think nothing of our tactics. I don't see why this isn't the standard attitude Verant takes--watch us, take note of things we do that they don't consider to be intended, and if necessary, nerf those tactics which are deemed too cheesy."

Comments similar to this are what we use when we research tactics for high level encounters.

>3. We feel that the context of the exploit (who is doing it, where they are doing it, and to what end) should influence the severity of the punishment. You don't, and think it should be uniform.

You are accurate in this statement. As is stated in nearly every management and discipline class that has ever been given: "To be effective, discipline must be firm, swift, and consistent." While your discipline here was certainly firm and swift, we believe your consistency leaves a great deal to be desired, and it is this fact that has caused public opinion to be heavily against you in this case. Simply stated, the punishment does not fit the crime.

>4. We feel several things said in guild chat imply that it is often your modus operendi [sic] to use exploits. You feel we are misunderstanding/taking out of context what was said.

Yes, you are taking our guild chat more seriously than we do. If you listen to the guild chat of any high level guild for a given length of time, you will find banter very similar to ours, and if you watch long enough, you will find plenty of "reasons" to disband said guild. It does not mean that illegal activities are rampant in those guilds, nor does it mean it is rampant in ours.

We agree to you using whatever excerpts from our conversations that you wish, with the sole condition that you also make the entire transcript of our dialog available for review.

With all due respect, we find your offer to reinstate Conquest in exchange for treasure won from the last warders lacking. Accepting your offer would imply that we agree with the punishment that has been rendered, and this is not the case. We would be willing to accept your offer to reinstate Conquest with the following amendment:

1. You reinstate Truk and Sticks, and after the suspension period is over, you remove the suspensions from our accounts, replacing them with the warnings that we feel are more appropriate given the circumstances.

If this is not acceptable, we would also be willing to accept your offer with the following amendments:

2. You disband and make an identical offer to every other guild that has killed the other warders in Sleeper's Tomb since the last buff of the warders, since they also used these identical tactics in those victories.
3. You disband and make an identical offer to every other guild that has killed Nagafen or Vox for the past three months, since they use these same tactics every time they defeat these monsters.

All we're asking for is a little consistency - Either in the manner in which we are punished, or in the manner in which all others who have used these *identical* tactics are dealt.

Best regards

-Gtath







-----Original Message-----
From: gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:53 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad; 'itzlegend'
Cc: Butler, Jeff
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


Brad,

We respectfully request that you include the rest of the dialog in your Guild Statement #2, including the supplementary statements I provided, and the last few emails. They are directly related to what happened, and are an important part of the dialog. We feel that they are so important that if you choose not to publish them, we will feel compelled to do so.

-Gtath






-----Original Message-----
From: McQuaid, Brad [mailto mcquaid@verant.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:05 PM
To: 'Gtath'
Cc: Butler, Jeff; 'Itzlegend'
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001


If you'd like to, that's fine, and I might as well once this is all resolved. My thoughts were that the remainder didn't really add much and were primarily focused on whether we could reach a point where you'd return the items from the other encounters in exchange for reinstatement of the guild. To me, this is another issue, and not one I wanted people to focus on (it just confuses things). And I felt compelled to make a statement soon.

In any case, I consider the exploit issue closed, and the guild reinstatement for items that I suggested and something we could talk about still open. If this isn't true, please let me know.

thanks,

--

---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Vice President, Premium Games
Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive
---------------------------------------------







-----Original Message-----
From: Gtath [mailto:gtath@home.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:16 PM
To: McQuaid, Brad
Cc: Butler, Jeff; 'Itzlegend'
Subject: RE: Response to your letter dated 06/06/2001




>In any case, I consider the exploit issue closed, and the guild reinstatement for items that I suggested and something we could talk about still open. If this isn't true, please let me know.

We certainly consider that option to be open, and we are awaiting your reply to our counter offer.

-Gtath

Ploppy
10-08-2010, 02:07 PM
Now THAT brings back memories :D I was Deolyen on that server. I "think" my guild was called Inner Fire at the time. They later merged into the guild that killed the Sleeper, but it was after I was gone.

Oldfart
10-08-2010, 03:29 PM
Bloobs doind hard talk on forums, love it... enable pvp already

Scrooge
10-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Fires of Heaven (who did not kill the Sleeper) = not Rallos Zek
Flowers of Happiness (who never saw Sleeper's Tomb) = Rallos Zek

Thanks for clearing that up!

Ploppy
10-11-2010, 10:18 AM
CONQUEST! It was a mix of Inner Fire and Soul Assassins right? See my old brain can remember stuff

vid
10-12-2010, 01:01 PM
I remember all of that Lanys drama. I was in Soul Assassins in the early-ish days (I knew Ketsui from another game) but I was never in Conquest. I did eventually join Inner Circle/Inner Fire as well.

I don't remember the exact facts of the whole Sleeper incident, but I do remember when it all went down and when Sleeper was released it was a giant human male model, iirc. Was pretty funny.

And I don't think Conquest was Soul Assassins and Inner Fire, but I can't remember how it was formed.

Winobot
10-12-2010, 03:53 PM
Not difficult to achieve at that stage of the game tbh. Surprised that the sleeper was able to slumber that long.

Oh and lure hit the sleeper as well, not just manaburn.

guineapig
10-12-2010, 04:14 PM
Not difficult to achieve at that stage of the game tbh. Surprised that the sleeper was able to slumber that long.

Oh and lure hit the sleeper as well, not just manaburn.

It's not that Sleeper couldn't be done.
The reason it wasn't awakened sooner was because people wanted to farm the gear that they knew would no longer drop once the sleeper was awakened.

It was considered to be a dick move at the time to complete the cycle while other guilds were still trying to gear up.

toadi
10-12-2010, 04:37 PM
I'm in the Fires of Heaven was the first to kill the sleeper boat(wasn't the actual model not even in yet? i could have sworn i remember hearing about a giant human model).

But the only reason Sleeper wasn't killed earlier was because people were too concerned with farming the ST gear, and like previously mentioned, waking him or killing him was considered a dick move.

Another point worth noting is that once the sleeper is awake and you fail to kill him, you don't get another shot, so the fact that the wiki said the gm respawned him and gave rallos another shot makes their kill worthless anyway.

just my 2c :) Fennin Ro never got to try to kill the sleeper cause some dick move by a group caused him to spawn and despawn. THANKS HAPPYFEET <3

Foxboxx
10-19-2010, 12:00 AM
Another point worth noting is that once the sleeper is awake and you fail to kill him, you don't get another shot, so the fact that the wiki said the gm respawned him and gave rallos another shot makes their kill worthless anyway.<3
I was at the sleeper kill (in MiM), and I have to ask how that makes it worthless? He would've been dead the first time if GMs didn't despawn him.

Ploppy
10-19-2010, 09:25 AM
CONQUEST

Badmartigan
10-21-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm in the Fires of Heaven was the first to kill the sleeper boat(wasn't the actual model not even in yet? i could have sworn i remember hearing about a giant human model).

But the only reason Sleeper wasn't killed earlier was because people were too concerned with farming the ST gear, and like previously mentioned, waking him or killing him was considered a dick move.

Another point worth noting is that once the sleeper is awake and you fail to kill him, you don't get another shot, so the fact that the wiki said the gm respawned him and gave rallos another shot makes their kill worthless anyway.

just my 2c :) Fennin Ro never got to try to kill the sleeper cause some dick move by a group caused him to spawn and despawn. THANKS HAPPYFEET <3

You are worthless for not reading any of the post... the GM's despawned him.. it was no fault of ours that we had to do it twice...

Cykubis
10-21-2010, 06:28 PM
Conquest never killed (or to my knowledge ever even attempted) the sleeper. The drama over their exploit was on one of the warders.

toadi
10-21-2010, 11:56 PM
You are worthless for not reading any of the post... the GM's despawned him.. it was no fault of ours that we had to do it twice...

Doesn't matter how he's despawned when he's gone he's gone. When a ref makes a bad call, you don't get to restart the game, you just gonna have to deal with it. When you order a chalupa from taco bell and you get home and find out they gave you a gordita you don't get a free chalupa next time you go to tacobell you just have to deal with the healthier version. Sure your colon will thank you but you were really looking forward to the greasy goodness of the chalupa. Catchin what im saying brah?

M.Bison
10-22-2010, 02:00 PM
Doesn't matter how he's despawned when he's gone he's gone.

Actually I'm pretty sure a GM can spawn as many Sleepers as he wanted. It wouldnt help the continuity of the game, but it is in their power to do so.

When a ref makes a bad call, you don't get to restart the game, you just gonna have to deal with it.

In any sport Ive ever watched head coaches can refute any call, good or bad, requesting an official review. It doesnt restart the game but you dont just have to "deal with it".

When you order a chalupa from taco bell and you get home and find out they gave you a gordita you don't get a free chalupa next time you go to tacobell you just have to deal with the healthier version. Sure your colon will thank you but you were really looking forward to the greasy goodness of the chalupa.

Taco Bell has a customer service standard that includes mistakes to a customers orders. If you ordered a Chalupa, and received a Gordita, you can just go back and get your free Chalupa. As far as you colon thanking you, id highly doubt that ones colon appreciates any Taco Bell tbh.

Catchin what im saying brah?

When someone throws shit, i tend not to catch it. brah

toadi
10-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Actually I'm pretty sure a GM can spawn as many Sleepers as he wanted. It wouldnt help the continuity of the game, but it is in their power to do so.
It's not a matter of what they can/can't do, of course gm's can do whatever they want, it's a matter of how the mob was designed. The encounter was designed as a 1 shot deal, giving someone 2 shots regardless of the reasoning would be counter to the design, and therefore not a valid "win" of the encounter. I suppose its a matter of opinion whether you thing design of encounters>gm or gm>design of encounter.


The rest of your quote responses aren't really worth replying to, but i'm glad you enjoyed them.

Twosmoke
11-01-2010, 10:51 AM
was on RZ as Krypto the Mage in Wudan. Was quite a nice feat, esp. assembling the force again a night later to kill him for good, after a GM despawned him the night before. Friend got the killshot, damm him (Trylun)!

oh and RZ ftw, there was nowhere such a political tension between the guilds than on this server. A war between the topguilds made raiding impossible but it was damm entertaining.

Mynxx
11-01-2010, 02:09 PM
Imagine trying to get the guilds of p99 to cooperate on killing the sleeper, when half of the people on this server don't know how to use "assist".

LMAO aint that the truth

Winobot
11-01-2010, 03:47 PM
It's not that Sleeper couldn't be done.
The reason it wasn't awakened sooner was because people wanted to farm the gear that they knew would no longer drop once the sleeper was awakened.

It was considered to be a dick move at the time to complete the cycle while other guilds were still trying to gear up.


Try and keep up…

Most servers awakened the sleeper during velious, when he was nigh unbeatable. Rz had the supposed worst tension and guild feuding, yet they could all agree not to awaken the sleeper. That’s why I was surprised that he was able to slumber that long.

Rogean
11-01-2010, 04:03 PM
Actually the community on RZ was like, outside the people and guilds that were only on the server to act like teenagers and trash talk, the high end raiding guilds actually had respect for eachother. I'd like to think it wasn't just constant pvp battles unless you did something to provoke it.

Fists
11-01-2010, 05:28 PM
Rogean is right, the server was very respectful. There were plenty of guilds like FoH/The Curse/Femme Fattale that acted like immature players and would tag people with "anti-pk" "pk" tag. But from a Wudan players perspective, I enjoyed everything top tier excluding Curse lol. (Although Odus ownz did help me get my plunder eye patch on Inmabeli =P)

SlankyLanky
11-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Try and keep up…

Most servers awakened the sleeper during velious, when he was nigh unbeatable. Rz had the supposed worst tension and guild feuding, yet they could all agree not to awaken the sleeper. That’s why I was surprised that he was able to slumber that long.

HES WINOBIOTIC!

Cykubis
11-01-2010, 06:17 PM
Actually the community on RZ was like, outside the people and guilds that were only on the server to act like teenagers and trash talk, the high end raiding guilds actually had respect for eachother. I'd like to think it wasn't just constant pvp battles unless you did something to provoke it.

This is what I remember for the most part as well. If you were max level, you had around 30 or so random pks to watch out for unless your guild was at war.

Scroll
11-01-2010, 08:54 PM
FoH was indeed the first. I remember it clearly.

/rekindleflames

feste
11-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Bloobs doind hard talk on forums, love it... enable pvp already

how thats a real muthu fuckin G...

Badmartigan
11-15-2010, 10:06 PM
http://www.mmocrunch.com/2007/12/04/top-5-most-memorable-events-in-mmorpg-history/

rz had it 1st...

baub
11-16-2010, 05:49 AM
Try and keep up…

Most servers awakened the sleeper during velious, when he was nigh unbeatable. Rz had the supposed worst tension and guild feuding, yet they could all agree not to awaken the sleeper. That’s why I was surprised that he was able to slumber that long.

What a bunch of care-bears =p


ps. Silent Oracle: First worldwide kill~

Ploppy
11-16-2010, 06:48 PM
blah blah blah....CONQUEST

Man0warr
11-17-2010, 03:11 AM
I had moved to The Rathe to join BotS by the time this happened but I was on RZ at the beginning. I was in a few guilds but MiM the longest, who was the leader again, Perplexor?

In the early days RZ had all the best PvP guilds from UO and M59. Hidden Power, The Regulators, Begotten, KAAOS, etc. Then you had the more PvE guilds like Destroyers of the Faith and Dark Carnival. Let's not forget Darkenbane and Kerrygetz.

Some of those guys stuck around and ended up in Sabbat alliance before it merged into Ascending Dawn. The best enchanter on the server, Rigamortiz, ended up switching to a tank (Kringe) when that happened..

Good times!

Krayzie
11-17-2010, 07:41 AM
FoH killed sleeper first.

toadi
11-17-2010, 02:26 PM
Lets just all agree to disagree.

Muchew
11-17-2010, 03:21 PM
funny thread..

Jarnin
11-18-2010, 05:44 AM
Let's not forget Darkenbane and Kerrygetz.
Man, I remember playing hide and seek in Skyfire with Kerrygetz. He killed me plenty but he was a fun nemesis.

Spud
11-18-2010, 02:54 PM
I remember kerrygetz, he was the de enchanter that terrorized people before they nerfed enchanters in pvp lol.

I played on rz but retired before the sleeper was killed, I alot of familiar names though. thanks for posting this.

Sinder
11-22-2010, 11:35 PM
I played from 1999 till merge on VZ and i must say there was no worse server vz could have been merged with than SZ. it was like taking a bunch of redneck hicks and tossing them in with a bunch of upper class businessmen who new the rules of the trade. sure things like training and griefing happened on all the pvp servers but when the merge came down and the trains began to suddely show up to wipe your raid already 50%+ through an encounter it got old quick. then when you would go to res and having the same people just train the zone entrance for the next 1-2 hours it got awful. i never once had a bad encounter with people from RZ or even TZ... 99% of the time it was lovely SZ retards. respect for RZ for pulling off the sleeper kill for sure

Abacab niggah
11-23-2010, 07:09 PM
I played from 1999 till merge on VZ and i must say there was no worse server vz could have been merged with than SZ. it was like taking a bunch of redneck hicks and tossing them in with a bunch of upper class businessmen who new the rules of the trade. sure things like training and griefing happened on all the pvp servers but when the merge came down and the trains began to suddely show up to wipe your raid already 50%+ through an encounter it got old quick. then when you would go to res and having the same people just train the zone entrance for the next 1-2 hours it got awful. i never once had a bad encounter with people from RZ or even TZ... 99% of the time it was lovely SZ retards. respect for RZ for pulling off the sleeper kill for sure

SZ was the only FFA PvP server so of course it brought in the worst anti-socail, pre-pubescent anger cases this side of the Atlantic. The people who played on SZ quickly went to playing WoW arena over and over again.

Mead
11-23-2010, 07:15 PM
You didn't know terror unless you played during Shoon's time. What a bastard that guy was.

Vigo54
12-04-2010, 09:55 PM
eh?

Giopawa
12-08-2010, 08:53 AM
I only have one thing to say FoH stands for one thing.... FLOWERS OF HAPPINESS!
I can proudly say I was a member of that grand guild, we never saw sleepers tomb.... we hardly saw passed High Hold Keep, but we owned that zone I say!
Not to mention another great guild of lowbie PKing, Inimical.
Ohhh the old days of EQ.

Winobot
12-08-2010, 10:05 AM
I think flowers of happiness was the reason I leveled, geared, and deleveled a rogue. Did it all on my blue server, but brought the pain to all you flowers of happiness twinkies! Eventually you guys just invited me. Good times griefing lowbies, hehe.

Mead
12-08-2010, 10:51 AM
eh?

Shoon was a wizard in Lucid Vision. I ran into him on a Vanguard but it wasn't the same Shoon.

Mead
12-08-2010, 10:59 AM
I can remember talking to Malgoof cross server while this was going on. I always liked that dude.

Gremel
03-10-2011, 02:34 PM
Things i learned from Rallos Zek:
the value of savings (i never carried plat on me, ever)
always keep your clip plane at max...
/guildstatus is your friend(because almost everyone was /anon)...
a button for /attack on /doability (disarm#) /attack off (for jousting with big ol' 2 handers)
the sound of root still makes me hit my open all bags button...
keeping 1000 copper on you was funny (briefly til they figure out its the copper that has rooted them)
turn off trading with others but group... messes up your targeting if someone trades with you...
i hate ice comet...
never trust a gnome (hes probably about to hit you with ice comet)
at low levels always have a pair of emergency pants in your bags because if you gear is crap a pk will take your pants (because its funny)
shadow step is useful...
never put your afk tag up unless you are using it as a honeytrap...
your "friends" list is really a "people i need to kill" list...
getting weird faction for your race is funny (troll warrior with ally to halfling guards for instance)...

jjgerman
03-10-2011, 02:57 PM
Come on now... I understand the limitations of only being able to pvp, and group with people of your own faction. But atleast you didn't have to worry about getting your gear jacked from you when you got PK'd. Dude from 6-30 my cleric was almost full cloth with some crappy earings/rings that I didn't mind if they got jacked. After I hit 30 I spent an ENTIRE month in Skyshrine camping Guardian Armor because it was No Drop. Do you think dying and losing experience was reason to rage enough? Try getting PK'd and losing your brand new chest piece you bought for 500pp! lol

Man I was a pro when it came to bagging my gear when a PK was kicking my ass. Now Rallos Zek is a real mans server where you seperate the boys from the men. ;)

Rallos zek was gay, 4 level gap, most good gear is no drop anyway, so u had to bag what? 2 items ? gtfo here lol

Tallon zek 8 level gap, first few months great server. Same with sullen, after the first year or so both servers were garbage.

Also tallon zek had item loot for several months, but it was quite gay in reality. Best u could hope for was an occasional SMR or something. Most people wernt stupid enough to wear anything good in big pvp battles.

Humerox
03-10-2011, 04:48 PM
nothing on RZ can compare to the utter poopfest that was SZ.

sullon truly attracted all the scum EQ could offer, and it was the grandest time in my gaming career ever.

remember the boards getting shut down like, every week? best flamers in EQ history, lol

item drop would have rocked, too....

Rebby
04-02-2011, 06:29 AM
i was on tallon zek, and i thought it was a good balance for pvping., of course there were too many hackers and exploiters, so anything of worth you had or made was garbage because 99% of the plat on the server was dirty

Koota
04-02-2011, 07:40 AM
Rallos zek was gay, 4 level gap, most good gear is no drop anyway, so u had to bag what? 2 items ? gtfo here lol

Tallon zek 8 level gap, first few months great server. Same with sullen, after the first year or so both servers were garbage.

Also tallon zek had item loot for several months, but it was quite gay in reality. Best u could hope for was an occasional SMR or something. Most people wernt stupid enough to wear anything good in big pvp battles.


Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Early Rallos days there wasn't that much "good" no drop gear. Planes gear, but most people weren't wearing it. And additionally, to be viable in PvP you had to wear diamonds.

There was nothing quite like PvPing against an obviously naked person, time after time after time, and then rolling up on a comfortable group. Fully decked out in their SMRs, FBSSs, etc. Those moments of dropping Ice Comets on the group members made that server great.

Foxx
04-02-2011, 02:59 PM
i was there on my cleric Tako Bell, helpin out my brewdogs... also, my bard alt Dredg, got the last primal weapon to ever drop on rallos zek

big blue accomplishments on a big red box

Ruinous
04-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I only have one thing to say FoH stands for one thing.... FLOWERS OF HAPPINESS!
I can proudly say I was a member of that grand guild, we never saw sleepers tomb.... we hardly saw passed High Hold Keep, but we owned that zone I say!
Not to mention another great guild of lowbie PKing, Inimical.
Ohhh the old days of EQ.

Hahaha.... I can't believe anyone remembers Inimical. I think I helped form that guild with some friends back in the day.

naez
04-02-2011, 11:16 PM
Lol... A guild that still made history in a way many other guilds didnt. Not a fan, but I have to say, Fansy was geniously childish at what he did :)

Edit: Early Flowers were not lowbies that ganked too... Blart was a fearsome shaman...

Blart = Fansy

Gremel
04-03-2011, 10:33 AM
i did not know blart was fansy, but that makes a lot of sense to me. FoH was a key part of the Rallos experience. FoH is the reason i started conning everyone making keys to tell who was in what guild even with their tags down... etc.

Beastro
04-03-2011, 12:26 PM
Where "No Drop" gear destroyed the damn server, and watching a guy quickly throwing his equiped gear into bags before dying to the hands of a PK was just the norm.

Brinkman
04-07-2011, 05:05 PM
<a href="http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/Brinkman01/?action=view&amp;current=systemwide.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/Brinkman01/systemwide.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


In case there were any more doubts.

naez
04-07-2011, 06:07 PM
I remember Brenlo, gnome monk :)

Athosblack
05-03-2011, 04:06 PM
For whatever reason I came across this thread. Them were the good old days. I almost want to return to MMO's.....almost.

Cheers,
Athosblack
Wudan
Dwarf Cleric

lauremore
05-05-2011, 08:30 PM
Killing the sleeper was fun. I miss those days :(. I remember you athos, how you been?

notahipster
05-05-2011, 09:08 PM
cant say i was apart of this event but anyone in question of the badassness of ralloz betta recognize!!!!

Ennoia
05-06-2011, 08:14 AM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

You expect PvP players to not exploit things?

MightyTyr
05-08-2011, 06:37 PM
The Curse 4 life!

Seriously, anyone who missed out on the opportunity to run around, track down people in zones, and kill them, missed out on a helluva time in a helluva game. It was a feeling of awesome power rolling into a zone with a group of PK's and watching the carebears scatter just from knowing we entered. From selling the items I stole PKing between my 65 ranger Tyraff and 54 druid Dastyr, coupled with a little buy/sell prowess in the bazaar, I made enough money to buy myself a Scepter of Destruction and elemental plane bow.

My ranger was full no drop mostly because I'd die almost instantly to one unseen manaburn or HT...or due to the fact that we would have to zerg down anyone from Ascending Dawn due to their huge gear advantage. Didn't see much AD or MiM but Wudan members seemed to enjoy the opportunity to fight us and presented themselves pretty openly it seemed.

My druid ran around in full droppable gear (mostly all resist gear). No other game experience has come close to the high of running around PvPing with risk of losing that much money on death.

Haul
05-08-2011, 08:48 PM
<-- proud member of rallos zek

Misaligned
05-20-2011, 03:50 PM
I was there for this kill as were several of my guildmates in Eximos, Gnugg was my warrior on RZ, and The Curse sucked by the way!

Penoy Lives
05-20-2011, 04:58 PM
i was in the curse and eximos actually!!!! .. ench Akabor , druid Vermouth, and Niteraptor SK

Moonface
05-31-2011, 04:07 PM
why so encounter sleeper so expansions late? qq RZ

Littlegyno
05-31-2011, 05:09 PM
I was Pyrosprial from RZ bros. Was in Begotten and then AD.

Where's all my Wudan pals at?

Raze
06-02-2011, 01:45 PM
I remember my guild was doing PoTime when this was going on, everyone was chattering in raid chat and private channels crossrealm as the news came in, the RL got mad (He was a cockhole, eitherway.) because we were holding everything up (Phase3, I think...)


Most "serious" guilds use exploits, MQ, or whatever whenever possible. (See the CQ fiasco.) I've found this to generally hold true from game to game since then.

Ulivar
06-02-2011, 05:44 PM
yes it did happen, sucks i wasn't there at the time

hailing from wudan - masson the clr.

Ulivar
06-02-2011, 05:44 PM
whats up pyro, chelsea is around too but doesn't lurk these boards

johnnytheshaman
06-02-2011, 06:28 PM
awesome!

Athosblack
06-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Didn't see much AD or MiM but Wudan members seemed to enjoy the opportunity to fight us and presented themselves pretty openly it seemed.

Hells ya, PVPing at that level was always good fun.
-Athosblack, Wudan, 65 Cleric.

Athosblack
06-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Killing the sleeper was fun. I miss those days :(. I remember you athos, how you been?
Doing good thanks. I couldn't resist and am now playing a Necro on the p99 server. And you?

baglund
06-15-2011, 11:07 AM
All this RZ nostalgia(sp?) almost made my stomach hurt! God I really miss the days.

But I can't understand how the guild Peace of Formosa have'nt come up yet? Korean guys who was masters of stirring shit up, training zones and whatnot. After a lot of drama the lead-gm disbanded them and they reformed under the name Peacebreakers. I think every major guild was at war with them at some point of the RZ history up to atleast velious.

Everquest pvp was in no way balanced or fair but I am the first to admit that no other pvp in any MMO has ever been so much fun. I myself played lots of different characters but always fell back to PKing atleast during the "fun era of EQ" (pre-luclin).

Hidden Power was imho the coolest guild, remember them popping into OS and killing everyone then just disappear. Reefman, Kaukaz and Daxx only three I remember on top of my mind.

Anyone remember Singood? One of the earliest PK's I can remember, always ran around invis in SK then rooted people who were kiting. One of my friends have broken atleast two keyboards because of him ;)

Ah well, good fun to read these posts, last two hours of the workday it dropped my productivity down to about 10%!

Badmartigan
06-15-2011, 09:48 PM
ahh yes i remember all the wudan peeps..

I was badmartigan back in the begining.. and superling..

then later my mains were Zeirus and Soqu

Seaweedpimp
06-16-2011, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=baglund;313377]Anyone remember Singood? One of the earliest PK's I can remember, always ran around invis in SK then rooted people who were kiting. One of my friends have broken atleast two keyboards because of him ;)
QUOTE]




LOL damn thats evil.

HallygukRZ
06-20-2011, 09:36 AM
Just found this nostalgia eq project and started last weekend.
Anyone from RZ still playing on P1999? Hallyguk here, former Wudan Shaman.

Posted some of my old Sleeper SS in my welcome thread :p
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40437

Slathar
06-20-2011, 01:44 PM
i liked to manaburn people and nexus gate and then sell their gear for real life money to buy hookers with. if that failed then id just train them with exodus. nothing was more fun than insta-gate training on people who took eq very seriously

i played a gnome wizard named Latnim/Tzimisc

Athosblack
06-20-2011, 03:10 PM
Hallyguk,dude, Athosblack here meng! My p99 char is Moriarti hit me up dood!

Nirgon
06-23-2011, 12:24 AM
So after the Sleeper died, did you guys all kill eachother.. you know.. since it was a PVP server?

No, the GMs saw to ending any real raid pvp because it became a CSR nightmare.

As far as respectful and what went on on RZ, I imagine many of you were very sheltered.

When I say "the GMs" I mean it got so bad that Ozuri (lead GM) got involved and told me personally that he received complaints from several Senior GMs rotated off of RZ because of the "inane" (not insane) issues and abuse they received. I saw GMs slain by players, they had no idea what the hell they were doing on RZ for the most part (having to pvp flag in the early days to perform certain actions, I belive such as rezzing). "Everyday I log in and the petition queue is full"...

I regularly saw 30+ vs 30+ with mobs running everywhere (and no one crying about training) and fighting in front of GMs where players where regularly frozen or yanked out of the fight because they were being accused of speed hacking. Accused, I say, because strafe running and jumping to run faster was not known by GM staff. To be honest, showeq was used but not terribly wide spread as far as I know.

There were GM created characters on the server (a certain troll SK who will remain nameless) with 255 in every stat (archery, 2hb, dodge riposte..).

I saw entire officer cores banned from the Peace of Formosa, Peacebreakers and Dogs of War guild....

Members of a certain raid group sharing a wizard character to PK droppable items (Lodizal shield etc) from their guildies on raids..

Zones being shut down and all players returned to their bind points for pvp... where pvp just immediately broke out again despite GM decree not to do so... this is just the guild war stuff.

I personally PK'd several valuable items at BotB tournaments and ninja looted kills at them and GMs despite saying no PvP couldn't stop anything.

Random PK groups of Platnumkutz, Badmartigan etc... 4 wizard ice comet squads on a server where all of your good resist gear was droppable..

Honor, lol. Your fucking heads would spin and the forums would run (Rallos) red with QQ here.

Motec
06-23-2011, 03:40 AM
Think thats tough? on my blue servers we regularly started bullshit on the forums with competing guilds.

Slathar
06-23-2011, 10:56 AM
To be honest, showeq was used but not terribly wide spread as far as I know.
...
Peace of Formosa, Peacebreakers and Dogs of War guild....


pof officers weren't banned for pvping. they were banned for introducing about 100 duped cloak of flames and at least as many duped manastones to the server during the end of vanilla. that and training.

caplayca, holysteed, didadi, angelcat, glaa...they all used showeq and later MQ2 as did most of the members since they all played in the same cafe in taipei.

Nirgon
06-24-2011, 10:06 AM
I had moved to The Rathe to join BotS by the time this happened but I was on RZ at the beginning. I was in a few guilds but MiM the longest, who was the leader again, Perplexor?

In the early days RZ had all the best PvP guilds from UO and M59. Hidden Power, The Regulators, Begotten, KAAOS, etc. Then you had the more PvE guilds like Destroyers of the Faith and Dark Carnival. Let's not forget Darkenbane and Kerrygetz.

Some of those guys stuck around and ended up in Sabbat alliance before it merged into Ascending Dawn. The best enchanter on the server, Rigamortiz, ended up switching to a tank (Kringe) when that happened..

Good times!

He had Taskman the necromancer and then Rigaroni the monk. Then one day on a Sabbat raid in plane of sky this ogre warrior lvl 55 showed up all of a sudden... and the warrior who could 1v1 the epic mage pet was born.

Nirgon
06-24-2011, 10:10 AM
pof officers weren't banned for pvping. they were banned for introducing about 100 duped cloak of flames and at least as many duped manastones to the server during the end of vanilla. that and training.

caplayca, holysteed, didadi, angelcat, glaa...they all used showeq and later MQ2 as did most of the members since they all played in the same cafe in taipei.

Duped jade maces :) but yeah. Someone duped CT's corpse and got banned in Formosa also. They operated out of a computer shop in Taipei or Taiwan I believe. I remember Glaa would always fall asleep at his keyboard in groups - "Glaa zzz big la" :).

As far as the pvp stuff was concerned, I saw GMs pull and res AD corpses in DN and then shut the zone down. I also nuked down and assisted in a GM kill with Trikk (rogue) while he was flagged and rezzing during this time. The bans, GM intervention and Begotten joining AD's ranks is what really ended up hurting us the worst.

Another time in Skyshrine Ozuri showed up and I guess forgot to GM invis himself (no /who or see invis). A bunch of us jumped on him and he froze us and said "the next person who attacks me dies and a res won't give back the experience". I miss guides being in game godly characters that showed up and not just some "blue text" and a copy/paste email.

fiegi
06-26-2011, 02:29 PM
I managed to go under deep cover with my PoF pals and finally was given the famed dupe bug. With the everquest ebay boom at it's height, it was very profitable indeed. You never will see me saying 1 bad word about those PoF bros. Endless rod of mournings for 400 a pop, manastones for 250 a pop....... oh the good ole days:)

Nirgon
06-27-2011, 02:05 PM
Item duping I sorta know of means for doing that but... duping an NPC corpse, that one I don't yet have any clue. Never heard of it on an Emu or otherwise outside of that.

fiegi
06-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Item duping I sorta know of means for doing that but... duping an NPC corpse, that one I don't yet have any clue. Never heard of it on an Emu or otherwise outside of that.

A lot of the PoF like Holysteed got banned for duping their corpses in planes when CT or Innoruuk would DT them either when their toon was linkdead and about to drop out of game, or camping. That's the trick they told me.

If you would cast starfire at 5 seconds camp and timed it right, you would kill the target, their pc would lock up, and they would log on fully geared with a fully geared corpse at their feet. It took sony about a month to figure this bug out.

Nirgon
06-27-2011, 02:48 PM
I can go on with my life now, thank you stranger.

fiegi
06-27-2011, 07:33 PM
I can go on with my life now, thank you stranger.

no prob im here to help, were you a wizard on RZ? I think i remember the name

Ornette
06-28-2011, 05:04 AM
Sup all you RZ cats. Just popped in to say hi to all the old RZers and especially Wudan.

Also, new cracked.com article:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-biggest-dick-moves-in-history-online-gaming/

Nirgon
06-28-2011, 10:05 AM
no prob im here to help, were you a wizard on RZ? I think i remember the name

Yep.

xblade724
06-29-2011, 08:45 AM
I was online when that happened. People from all servers were joined on private channels /join sleeper went up to /join sleeper13 to get updates of whats happening. Finally the 2nd time they did it, they killed it even faster without the "exploits". Good times .. they had a huge gm storyline broadcasted to everyone

Kastro
06-29-2011, 11:59 AM
I was Corbon the Troll Sk at the time... I had gone to legends right when it came out, figured to get som no drop and come back.. but ended up enjoying the game.. being able to raid ect... got deployed for 6 or 7 months so we could invade Irq.. got back my toon was on rallos Zek and had lost a level.. obviosly who ever was playing had his ass handed to him on a daily basis.. so looked up Timon and a few others.. they were rolling with The Curse.. had a good time doing LDon to pick up exp, AAs and Augs.. was kinda funny DTing AD characters who thoguht they were invincable.. their gear was still like a year ahead of mine but they still fell...

I remember you Nirgon on the SK or it was your brother.. never was too sure... but i remember Stynkfist got in some fight with his guild and started Spirit of the Bamboo and then a week or so later there was talk in the guild (The Curse) on who had sleepers keys... only a small crew did and there was talk of someone gonna COH us to the last warder... and Timon (the Ogre SK) was supposed to tank... we were waiting around... I was in england at the time so it was pretty daman late.. and some of us logged off ect.. and then we got word to go to Eastern Wastes... but Timon was nowhere to be found.. we got cohed in by a 55 mage and engaged think there was my SK, a Bard.. Cleric.. think we had one or 2 others max... I kept getting sumonned ect and had no clue how to place him right... got him down to I think it was 1% cleric was complaining about no mana then I suddenely died... at the same time there were AD ect coming into the zone.... took me about 3 days before the zone calmed down enough for me to summon my corpse to the zone and get out of there.. pretty sure after the sleeper was already dead... thats what I can remember of the whole thing... It was such an awful feeling to die when we had the warder at 1% and then later they killed the Sleeper.. I was happy for them and the server to have killed the sleeper.. but still a part of me really wishes we woke him before they were able to get ready...

I remember runnign around Kael before going to legends and seeing Kringe fully geared run around pvping peeps solo.. was pretty damn rare to see a Warrior out pvping by himself.. think he had nets ect... but still

This the real Xblade? remember you always had crazy gear and AA way ahead of everyone..

To me LDon.. while it pretty much took away droppable gear... was great for Pks who wanted to compete at 65 because we could farm good AAs and pretty decent gear and then PVP out in the old zones.. the book thing was kinda gay... but for sure saved my ass a few times although in an outdoor zone because of AA horse... unless a bard was involved I pretty much wasnt gonna die... and even then Shadowstep and harmshield had a good chance of saving me... was really a fun time in the server..

HallygukRZ
06-29-2011, 03:33 PM
Today, Wudan has been recreated on P1999. Any old members or RZ vets are welcome to join up! Tell Hallyguk or Moriarti ingame.

<a href='http://www.postimage.org/' target='_blank'><img src='http://s1.postimage.org/xqrd4l4xl/wudan.jpg' border='0' alt="wudan" /></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='http://www.postimage.org/'>image upload</a><br /><br />

Athosblack
06-29-2011, 06:56 PM
Wudam, MiM, AD, FoH, DB, PB et al welcome!

Badmartigan
06-30-2011, 01:41 PM
this thread is really nostalgic....


i played superling in PoF/Peacebreakers.. and pked on badmartigan..

so many PoF/PB clerics got banned / suspended for training and ninja looting... guys like Qman, Nothank, and many many others from taiwan la~

XbladeRZ
07-03-2011, 04:38 AM
Wow.. funny what turns up when you enter your player name and Everquest on google. It's been what, ten years or so? I notice someone has been posing as me on other multiple forums too for some reason.. I mean, seriously? But since I am bored and it's a late extended weekend, I thought I drop in and say hi. Hope you guys from Rallos are doing well. You guys still doing the MMO and gaming routine?


P.S. The AA leveling was fun, I am not sure what compelled me to do something like that. Maybe because Everquest was the first game for me that had such longevity at the time. All in all, it was fun.

Renk
07-04-2011, 09:18 PM
@XbladeRZ
Hi Hai! Rats plz.
Come to IRC la~
(Naerini)

Qauz
08-02-2011, 05:49 AM
did foh kill sleeper first?

necis
09-08-2011, 10:42 PM
i liked to manaburn people and nexus gate and then sell their gear for real life money to buy hookers with. if that failed then id just train them with exodus. nothing was more fun than insta-gate training on people who took eq very seriously

i played a gnome wizard named Latnim/Tzimisc

Not claiming your gnome enchanter, Mintal? Shame.

SoulLeech
10-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Well damn, I just wrote a book here and lost it.

Anyway, love the nostalgia in this thread. Haven't thought about EQ years until a random web search brought me here.

I love the hate/misunderstanding that RZ always gets.

Playing on the early days of RZ is hands-down the most enthralling, frustrating and fun experiences I've ever had gaming. Either you were there or weren't, you understand it or you don't.

A few quick RZ memories in no particular order:

* Covetous Crew, The Begotten, Sinister, The Regulators, Hidden Power.
* RZ dominating the original Test of Tactics so thoroughly that the rest of EQ might as well have walked away from their keyboards.
* Reefman beasting his way to Rogue BotB finals against players with far better gear.
* Ice comet one-shotting naked Shaman like Ennart and Aakor before the 60% spell-damage reduction.
* Vilar seeming like he'd be the first 50 in EQ before just disappearing.
* People who had the balls to PvP in their best gear.
* Disarm dropping weapons on the ground before it was changed to dump it to inventory.
* Knowing virtually everyone on the server by name and affiliation.
* Being able to fight for and hold territory.
* Killing people for inspecting your equipment.

Kringe
10-08-2011, 07:20 PM
Damn I can tell you defintely played Early RZ.... Vilar did disappear as Retsam closely gained in..


Rigamortiz/Taskman/Kringe

genrah
10-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Well damn, I just wrote a book here and lost it.

Playing on the early days of RZ is hands-down the most enthralling, frustrating and fun experiences I've ever had gaming. Either you were there or weren't, you understand it or you don't.




So true. Some old RZ memories here:

-A barbarian warrior named Haanibal(sp) bow shotting newbs at freeport gates
-Maxing my swimming out looking for my corpse at the bottom of eruds crossing
-Jooke backstabbing everyone in faydark
-gank squads including Scurry, Genrah, Rhawn, Olyrus, Viticus, Mortaneous, Kheldor and many others
-All the bank ganking going on when you could cast through walls at banks
-scrapping with various members of AD, Wudan, Darkenbane, Lucid Vision, Flowers, Artful Death, Curse
-making enough alliances to finally get my epic (its tough unguilded when you are pretty much a neutral pk (ie attack everone not on your friends list).
-looting too many blood stained mantles to count (bar none the #1 in most commonly pkd item.)
-raping iksars with my lvl 12 magician Flosavius when Kunark came out (Iksars that lvl had nothing for a root pet and bombs)
-fighting over Ancient Cyclops spawn in S.Ro which seemed like daily with Knocme, Yvern, many others (I must have multiquested that thing over 50 times)

Good times..

-Genrah

Djanis
10-12-2011, 07:09 PM
I rolled a toon first on Sullon. Ill take losing a piece of gear and having to try to find no drop gear any day of the week over getting corpse camped by a lvl45 wizard in Blackburrow, which is what happened to me and made me switch to RZ. RZ was cool as hell but lets not kid ourselves here, SZ was much harder to play on.

As for Pk/anti-pk its simple. View it as "good vs evil". I was an Anti-pk. That doesnt mean i didnt pvp. It meant that guilds like flowers of happiness were KOS to me. I had that list people talked about. Someone killed or attempted to kill me, he was then added to the KOS list. I had plenty of people to kill only days after starting out so again its not like anti-pk meant anti-pvp.

Sullon came out after the prime time of Rallos had come and gone. I played on both, and I don't think it was harder on SZ. SZ already had preset territory and teammates (whether you wanted them on your team or not) right from the get go. Everybody was a potential enemy on RZ. I think original RZ was the hardest, although I'm sure it can be debated forever. One thing is for sure, safe zones ruined pvp for everyone, no matter what server you were on.

Lots of old names in this thread. Brings back some memories. :cool:

Shwingler
10-12-2011, 10:28 PM
Xblade... the machine that never slept! I heard rumors that you sold your account for like 2k $.... that true?

SoulLeech
10-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Sullon came out after the prime time of Rallos had come and gone.

Certainly.

The concentrate that was Rallos that had been thoroughly diluted before Sullon popped up in 2001. By that time, that players, guilds and feuds that had funneled together into Rallos from UO, M59 and wherever else had already dispersed to TZ/VZ, left for AC, turned blue or sat anticipating DAoC.

That was the great thing about Rallos in the spring/summer of '99, the group of players it forcibly brought together. It was playing in a league where every third player was a past or future hall of famer.

Without those players what did you have?

A decent standalone PvE work with PVP tacked on as an afterthough that became a game about grinding between raids with PVP as a complete orphan.

Sullon was actually the ultimate confirmation of that fact. A physical manifestation of the admission that PVP was broken, they weren't going to fix it and they were fed up with hearing about it.

Bashm Guud
10-30-2011, 03:36 AM
All this RZ nostalgia(sp?) almost made my stomach hurt! God I really miss the days.

But I can't understand how the guild Peace of Formosa have'nt come up yet? Korean guys who was masters of stirring shit up, training zones and whatnot. After a lot of drama the lead-gm disbanded them and they reformed under the name Peacebreakers. I think every major guild was at war with them at some point of the RZ history up to atleast velious.

Everquest pvp was in no way balanced or fair but I am the first to admit that no other pvp in any MMO has ever been so much fun. I myself played lots of different characters but always fell back to PKing atleast during the "fun era of EQ" (pre-luclin).

Hidden Power was imho the coolest guild, remember them popping into OS and killing everyone then just disappear. Reefman, Kaukaz and Daxx only three I remember on top of my mind.

Anyone remember Singood? One of the earliest PK's I can remember, always ran around invis in SK then rooted people who were kiting. One of my friends have broken atleast two keyboards because of him ;)

Ah well, good fun to read these posts, last two hours of the workday it dropped my productivity down to about 10%!

This is Daxx, I was never in Hidden Power, I just hung out with most of their members :P Ya we did love to goto OS and kill everyone there ;) good times, good times!

Bashm Guud
10-30-2011, 03:55 AM
Well damn, I just wrote a book here and lost it.

Anyway, love the nostalgia in this thread. Haven't thought about EQ years until a random web search brought me here.

I love the hate/misunderstanding that RZ always gets.

Playing on the early days of RZ is hands-down the most enthralling, frustrating and fun experiences I've ever had gaming. Either you were there or weren't, you understand it or you don't.

A few quick RZ memories in no particular order:

* Covetous Crew, The Begotten, Sinister, The Regulators, Hidden Power.
* RZ dominating the original Test of Tactics so thoroughly that the rest of EQ might as well have walked away from their keyboards.
* Reefman beasting his way to Rogue BotB finals against players with far better gear.
* Ice comet one-shotting naked Shaman like Ennart and Aakor before the 60% spell-damage reduction.
* Vilar seeming like he'd be the first 50 in EQ before just disappearing.
* People who had the balls to PvP in their best gear.
* Disarm dropping weapons on the ground before it was changed to dump it to inventory.
* Knowing virtually everyone on the server by name and affiliation.
* Being able to fight for and hold territory.
* Killing people for inspecting your equipment.

Haha Coveteous Crew! that brings me back they used to have original Jboots in Najena on lockdown they wouldn't let rest of server get any for the longest time

Nirgon
11-14-2011, 07:08 PM
All RZ'rs please report to r99 on Friday evening.

Daldaen
11-14-2011, 07:40 PM
All RZ'rs please report to r99 on Friday evening.

Then swiftly check out on Saturday afternoon due to the clusterfuck and drama that will ensue.

Tamiah2011
11-14-2011, 08:34 PM
All RZ'rs please report to r99 on Friday evening.

noob yu never even played on RZ so stfu...

Bashm Guud
11-14-2011, 09:00 PM
Then swiftly check out on Saturday afternoon due to the clusterfuck and drama that will ensue.

server drama = cheap entertainment imo

Ainienu
12-22-2011, 07:09 AM
Just pop in to Hail the legends of Rallos Zek .

I myselves was not much into PVP , but in the end thinking of the mixed joy and frustration i have to say i enjoyed all my days played on RZ , i am sure 100 of them was just spent running naked looking for my corpse =).

Guild names like Ascending Dawn ,MiM, Ordo Malleus, Wudan, Begotten , Femme Fatale, Peace of Formosa , Peacebreakers and for a short time Gan Hosi , East Power , Darkenbane, House of X'zzt , Fearful Symmetri , Order of the Black Rose , Covenant of the Wolf , Iron Crown , Heroes of Bifrost , Flower of Happines and many more both friendly and "unfriendly guilds".

But best of all i remember all the fun i had with my friends in and out of own guild Seekers of Divinity .

Ainienu Trainbringer
Seekers Of Divinity
Rallos Zek - Rogue

Nirgon
12-22-2011, 01:36 PM
Dark Carnival? Blood Coven? Darksteel's Dreadknights?

juicedsixfo
12-22-2011, 05:00 PM
Guild names like Ascending Dawn ,MiM, Ordo Malleus, Wudan, Begotten , Femme Fatale, Peace of Formosa , Peacebreakers and for a short time Gan Hosi , East Power , Darkenbane, House of X'zzt , Fearful Symmetri , Order of the Black Rose , Covenant of the Wolf , Iron Crown , Heroes of Bifrost , Flower of Happines and many more both friendly and "unfriendly guilds".


I was totally a founding member of Order of the Black Rose (all rogue guild, we were awesome) before joining the Flowers much later down the road. We used to have mini raids on Runnyeye and stuff where we'd have to recruit a couple Clerics to come along with us. I actually have screenshots from one of those raids, I'll post 'em later.

Ainienu
12-22-2011, 05:44 PM
Dark Carnival? Blood Coven? Darksteel's Dreadknights?

Hail Nirgon , all fammilliar and nice guilds to me but i wasnt able to mention and recall them all =) ..

for sure i remember Dark Carnival and Blood Coven =).

Guess i need to pop into the project servers to try out =).

Ainienu

juicedsixfo
12-26-2011, 01:08 AM
I was totally a founding member of Order of the Black Rose (all rogue guild, we were awesome) before joining the Flowers much later down the road. We used to have mini raids on Runnyeye and stuff where we'd have to recruit a couple Clerics to come along with us. I actually have screenshots from one of those raids, I'll post 'em later.

Found 'em:

http://i40.tinypic.com/jtw65u.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/vn19at.jpg

ZenjitsuRZ
12-26-2011, 07:49 PM
Any MMO gaming I did after Rallos Zek I don't really consider being on par with it, nothing was as great. I seriously don't think there will ever be a server in the history of gaming that was as awesome as RZ..the people, the guild politics going on, the rep PK's would have, the wars, the game itself, killing the sleeper, etc. I think when they took out item loot though later on in the life of the server, a part of the soul of RZ was lost, especially for the PK's.

I put together a video of some music and some screenshots from back then...it is a long video, perhaps too long, but I just wanted to include most of the screenshots I had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4T40PTL4Dc

Peace be with you.

...a monk from long ago.

Ainienu
12-30-2011, 08:37 PM
Hail Zennael ,, indeed bring back alot of memories and names =) ,,,

cudos for that very loong nostalgia of screenshots ,

very nice effort and not at all to long enjoyed every screenshots =) ..

Hugs from Norway

Ainienu Trainbringer
Seekers of Divinity
Long hibernating rogue of ralloz zek.

justdis
01-02-2012, 12:01 PM
cant help wudan was there... but stynk helped us to decide to kill the sleeper... ;)


I was only there on 1st attempt, damn EURO-timezone

Nirgon
01-04-2012, 08:59 PM
Found 'em:

http://i40.tinypic.com/jtw65u.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/vn19at.jpg

Post all of your screen shots so that we may scour them for things to be implemented or fixed. Esp things with multiple dots on you, etc etc etc.


Lol. Nirgon was one of the top wizards you scrub.

HNIC, manastone + manarobe + epic, raid pvp

Seaweedpimp
01-05-2012, 05:02 AM
So true. Some old RZ memories here:

-A barbarian warrior named Haanibal(sp) bow shotting newbs at freeport gates

haha that was my step brother. We also played on the nameless under daarker and darkest.

Welp there goes my rep~

Seaweedpimp
01-05-2012, 05:03 AM
Also im about 100% sure haanibal was a rogue. Balorf was his warrior, on the nameless.

Nirgon
01-05-2012, 01:05 PM
When men were men

xblade724
01-06-2012, 07:41 AM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

One or two days later, they were granted a second chance ("Oh, if you want to, you can try again" thinking they wouldnt). They had an additional +20ish people and killed it in less time and did it successfully. Technically, they killed him twice. They were freaking out not knowing what to do and blamed the "exploit" on a scapegoat gnome imo

quido
01-06-2012, 08:21 AM
Reading through this thread now, it amuses me seeing all the banned people who posted in it.

Nirgon
01-06-2012, 02:01 PM
Um there was definitely a Z-axis exploit in Sleeper's. Scape goats and red herrings be damned.

Edrick
01-08-2012, 05:48 AM
Do we know the full extent of Kerafyrm's script when he awakens? And what happens around Norrath?

The only things I know is that he goes to Skyshrine and kills Yelinak, and Lady Vox shouts about Kerafyrm awakening. Does he go to any other zones? Do other NPCs around the world say or react somehow? I've been wondering this ever since I read about FoH and other guilds raiding ST.

I know this isn't really an EQ lore thread but I don't know where else to ask, honestly.

Holey
01-08-2012, 07:13 PM
HE goes from zone to zone DTing anyone near sight. LOL

Seaweedpimp
01-08-2012, 08:50 PM
pretty sure if the sleeper spawned in 2013 and lady vox shouted across the zones, IB would mobilize...... for vox.. haha scrubz

Edrick
01-08-2012, 09:59 PM
pretty sure if the sleeper spawned in 2013 and lady vox shouted across the zones, IB would mobilize...... for vox.. haha scrubz

She only shouts within Permafrost I believe. Which makes me wonder if anyone heard any other NPCs remark whenever Kerafyrm woke up, but didn't bother to note it.

Kaminie
03-03-2012, 07:01 PM
Wow, just had a trip down memory lane and feeling nostalgic about Rallos, memories of Dismenace, Blart helping us out in Highhold in the very early days, levelling at Guk, Wudan as first raiding guild, AD as second, first group to break into Bastion of Thunder on Rallos with ornette, best ever druid, killing the sleeper and so many names on this board that i remember over 13 years of playing. Play my cleric as main on Bertox now, but Kam still played. Can't beleive so many people still around

Kaminie Moonbeam Enchanter

Ebonchi
03-04-2012, 01:42 AM
you guys need girlfriends. You're arguing about virtual facts that are over 13 years old. Get a girlfriend, get lives, and get real.

Throb
03-07-2012, 06:21 PM
Wow, just had a trip down memory lane and feeling nostalgic about Rallos, memories of Dismenace, Blart helping us out in Highhold in the very early days, levelling at Guk, Wudan as first raiding guild, AD as second, first group to break into Bastion of Thunder on Rallos with ornette, best ever druid, killing the sleeper and so many names on this board that i remember over 13 years of playing. Play my cleric as main on Bertox now, but Kam still played. Can't beleive so many people still around

Kaminie Moonbeam Enchanter

You are goddamn delusional. MIM and even Peacebreakers 'raided' before Wudan even existed. Sabbat was the first real raiding presence on RZ (I don't count The Begotten 'raiding teh ghoul lord'), then you had Synergy trying to compete with them and failing. Let's not pretend Wudan ever did anything but follow in other guilds' footsteps, and take whatever morsels AD et all left behind for them.

Supreme
03-07-2012, 07:19 PM
<3 Stynkfyst

Was a Alpha Monk.

Throb
03-07-2012, 07:32 PM
Was a Alpha Monk.

Stynkfyst was a big fat pussy. He only pvp'd when he'd been basically exiled off the server, and by PVP I mean, died repeatedly. Also, he looks like Uncle Fester irl.

Supreme
03-10-2012, 02:04 AM
Stynkfyst was a big fat pussy. He only pvp'd when he'd been basically exiled off the server, and by PVP I mean, died repeatedly. Also, he looks like Uncle Fester irl.

He was pretty good when i knew him in Triton.

Nolanite
03-24-2012, 01:27 AM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

So the mob was supposed to be impossible to kill? GHHHEEYYYY

Diggles
03-24-2012, 01:51 AM
So the mob was supposed to be impossible to kill? GHHHEEYYYY
Kerafyrm, "The Sleeper", is a dragon boss in the original The Sleeper's Tomb zone.
While sleeping, Kerafyrm is guarded by four ancient dragons (warders) in "The Sleeper's Tomb". When all four dragons are defeated by players and are dead at the same time, The Sleeper awakes, triggering a rampage of death. Kerafyrm travels through and into multiple zones from The Sleeper's Tomb to Skyshrine, killing every player and NPC in his path. This event is unique in EverQuest, as it only occurs once on each game server. Once The Sleeper awakes, neither he nor the original guardians will ever appear again on that server, unless the event is reset.
As of 12 July 2008, Kerafyrm remains asleep on both the Al'Kabor (Macintosh) server and the official Test Server.
Originally intended to be unkillable, SOE prevented a raid of several guilds on Rallos Zek server from potentially killing him, claiming the existence of a bug. SOE later apologized for interfering,[25] reset, and allowed the players to retry the encounter. Two days later, the same three guilds made a second attempt and after almost 4 hours, successfully killed the sleeper.[26][27] [28]

Quizy
04-16-2012, 10:57 AM
You are goddamn delusional. MIM and even Peacebreakers 'raided' before Wudan even existed. Sabbat was the first real raiding presence on RZ (I don't count The Begotten 'raiding teh ghoul lord'), then you had Synergy trying to compete with them and failing. Let's not pretend Wudan ever did anything but follow in other guilds' footsteps, and take whatever morsels AD et all left behind for them.

Peace of Formosa bros..

tw la~

Arteker
04-16-2012, 11:52 PM
yes 4 hours of battle rez, feeding him hts ,lifeburns , and when people have aas and planar gear .


impossible in velious age but nowdays when 5 people can run their own plane of time event and kill quarm not hard

Ornette
06-10-2012, 08:02 PM
You are goddamn delusional. MIM and even Peacebreakers 'raided' before Wudan even existed. Sabbat was the first real raiding presence on RZ (I don't count The Begotten 'raiding teh ghoul lord'), then you had Synergy trying to compete with them and failing. Let's not pretend Wudan ever did anything but follow in other guilds' footsteps, and take whatever morsels AD et all left behind for them.
She's referring to those 2 being her first and second raiding guilds.

DarkwingDuck
07-09-2012, 05:26 AM
Hate break your Bubble dude,But FoH was the first to kill the sleeper.It to bad the GM accused us of Exploiting and took mobs. Please know the facts before you but crap on the forum.

Lol no, actually it was RZ, AD,MiM ans wudan,

It would have been great site to see... Too bad I was merely a wudan in recruitment.. And after the fact.. Epic Mage kyeel on RZ and hope to be epic again on P99

Kyeel Magi'kot

DarkwingDuck
07-09-2012, 05:49 AM
I was totally a founding member of Order of the Black Rose (all rogue guild, we were awesome) before joining the Flowers much later down the road. We used to have mini raids on Runnyeye and stuff where we'd have to recruit a couple Clerics to come along with us. I actually have screenshots from one of those raids, I'll post 'em later.

Man was anyone here a part of The Tinkers? All Mage guild? I'm certain we were the best guild for doing the Mage epic..l they had it to a science.. Was so funny.. We"'d run around with like 9 epic mages ... Oh the pwnage. .. RZ defunct,ey had the best ups and down memories server wise..

Ps flowers were such assholes... But I must admit I had a lowbie wiz in it later in life.. 1 to pk ppl(being in anti or neutral guides for years(covenant of the wolf , shadow gypsies, elven crusaders, the tinkers) and also to find out what they were up to, to log on main and try n ge them back.. For the numerous times you'd be out soloing 3 would pop out from a bush, and root you.. Not to kil u and loot your item.. But to give you exp death and waste the last 4 hours of solid giant grinding on kunark :)

Peace

Kyeel

Nirgon
07-11-2012, 12:46 AM
Old man Nirgon dropping some shit on you. I mean... it IS the screen shot section:

http://i50.tinypic.com/iw4pw7.gif

Nirgon
07-11-2012, 12:52 AM
Unfortunately, there was a bug at that particular time that did make it possible. No NPC in the game was regen'ing hitpoints while in combat. =|

http://i49.tinypic.com/2rfbg5c.jpg

Hmm

Danyelle
07-11-2012, 01:05 AM
Old man Nirgon dropping some shit on you. I mean... it IS the screen shot section:

http://i50.tinypic.com/iw4pw7.gif

......The once warring clans of Inglorious Basterds, The Mystical Order, and Bregan D`Aerth had put their personal battles aside and come together.........

Look! It's something that will never happen! This is why the Sleeper will never die on P99.








































Yeah.

Nirgon
07-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Or how about this server is never going into Luclin or PoP which is what made it possible.

Someone will eventually let the Sleeper out on blue, trust me.

necis
07-13-2012, 06:16 PM
But... we all need scepters of destruction and primal.
--
Phizle, 65, Wizard, Rallos Zek.
Necis, ~40, Enchanter, p1999.

SamwiseBanned
07-14-2012, 12:16 PM
bluebie talk about a red server.

Dullah
07-16-2012, 02:52 AM
Common misconception that pvp in EQ (esp rallos zek) was for anything other than progressing in pve. Rarely was for most, as EQ is largely about pve...

Nirgon
07-16-2012, 12:26 PM
I PvP'd for just the fun of it on my main and twinks for the fun of it or looting items from other players.

Yeah, I did the whole out of control heavily staff involved guild war thing there too, but the best days were the Karana/Oasis PvP days and getting your leveling done in the most obscure places because of being a random PK.

As far as "only for PvE progression" - there's quite a few players who'd also jump in here and say "um no" =). Favorites like Sinbad, Platinumkutz, Castin, Firble, Xero (Xearo? the epic mage someone bought and delvl'd) etc.

Dullah
07-16-2012, 04:53 PM
It wasn't all for raids.. but random pking was in the minority. There was generally factions and rivalries involved. The server was just like any blue server, except you could pvp to settle disputes. This whole, everyones a pk, no order vs chaos thing is one of the biggest things to suck about r99. In a system of complete chaos, its rough on the new guys.

Nirgon
07-16-2012, 05:18 PM
I agree with your r99 comments and it being, as I've indicated, the "alternate" 1999 where all evils and roots to success were known. Of course it was going to be hard on new people :).

But, to be sure, early on in RZ... more PvP was a result of random PKs than a guild war. That changed around Velious with the Sabbat split and Ascending Dawn (with help from Begotten, MiM...) vs. Rebirth (PB,FU,Ordo Malleus snuck in there lol).

In fact, the light versus dark aspect was HIGHLY prevalent as was the aspect of being a "kin slayer" on RZ. It was quite interesting and there were Freeport and Nektulos raids where the lights vs darks went down quite a bit, best of times imho.

Dullah
07-16-2012, 06:58 PM
Agreed.

I've been pushing Nihilum to try to set up an order vs chaos thing on r99 for a while. You have those who just pk everyone, and those who fight to help out the new guys (anti versus pk). Makes for a more healthy environment when everyone isn't gunning for you from day one.

Unwittingly, thats why a lot of vz and tz live players always argue for a different ruleset. The ruleset was created by players on RZ. Shouldn't have to be hardcoded.

Nirgon
07-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Starting to go off track here brudda. Keeping this thread about RZ / sleeper. Two of my favorite things.

Dullah
07-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Its all relevant =p.

Order vs chaos is what made RZ great.

Nirgon
10-17-2012, 12:45 PM
Well, it's clear that training should be allowed in Sleeper's.

Old_PVP
10-27-2012, 12:06 PM
Peace of Formosa bros..

tw la~

cow 8 gan la~ .... never did figure out what that meant. lol, crazy asians.


You didn't know terror unless you played during Shoon's time. What a bastard that guy was.

Lol @ this, shoon? That guy went down with 2 starfires.

Kevynne
10-28-2012, 05:21 AM
owned

Nirgon
11-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Keep that Com-bum/Fippy Haxpaw crap outta here sirs

Nirgon
11-05-2012, 09:08 PM
Not exactly, its just how SoE implemented "classic" and handled cheating on their progression servers made me sick. Nilbog has the right idea, why didn't they?

Destruc
12-29-2012, 03:16 PM
MiM AD FoH didnt matter they all feared the Senken. I cant believe some of the old wudan members ive seen in this thread. I remember starting up with the guild when needra created it. Wow its been a long time. I played Senken the greatest SK ever and Tenken. I started back in beta though I was in the regulators when all the pvp guilds from atlantic server on UO moved to rallos zek when eq opened up. Once they all left we went sabbat for awhile then created Wudan. Those where great times though... the best was just like 60 man battle royals in fear while CT was deathtouching everyone it was epic. You guys remember that small group of pvpers that always ran around together I couldnt remember there guild name it changed always but Reddogg was in it Ssok the bard and some necro and wizard. I always fought reddogg me and him battled for top sk spot with gear. Its good to see you guys I just started on p99 yesterday so im a lil late.

Destruc aka Senken

hijinks
12-31-2012, 11:07 AM
Senken I remember u lol

Ya Reddogg aka handiman.. he was in The Begotten, then Astaldo, and some other random guild names we had.. you're probably talking about Facultas, was a good group back then

Nice to see you playing p99, you should come play on Red99 ..

I played Zyrino on RZ, gnome necro if you have a good memory you'll remember.

Nirgon
12-31-2012, 11:37 AM
MiM AD FoH didnt matter they all feared the Senken. I cant believe some of the old wudan members ive seen in this thread. I remember starting up with the guild when needra created it. Wow its been a long time. I played Senken the greatest SK ever and Tenken. I started back in beta though I was in the regulators when all the pvp guilds from atlantic server on UO moved to rallos zek when eq opened up. Once they all left we went sabbat for awhile then created Wudan. Those where great times though... the best was just like 60 man battle royals in fear while CT was deathtouching everyone it was epic. You guys remember that small group of pvpers that always ran around together I couldnt remember there guild name it changed always but Reddogg was in it Ssok the bard and some necro and wizard. I always fought reddogg me and him battled for top sk spot with gear. Its good to see you guys I just started on p99 yesterday so im a lil late.

Destruc aka Senken

Begotten? Check my sig for the lookee-ups (click my name).

Destruc
12-31-2012, 04:43 PM
Zyrino hahah Ya I remember you well man. God its been a long time. I was thinking about playing there but the pop was so low I didnt know if it be worth it. Plus a friend of mine used to play here so he gave me his plat and I bought a toon. I suppose I could trade for one there how ya been man? Nirgon I remember you too bro.

Peacocky
01-05-2013, 11:08 AM
I was in Ascending Dawn also. First day we tried to take sleeper down was stopped by GM, we went nuts but they promised to allow Rallo zekian to re-do sleeper again the next day with suspicious. After taking down sleeper the next day with other guilds along with Wudan, there was no drop from the sleeper as one enchanter had predicted. Instead we all got a sucky 2 AA's as a reward..

Since then, many of us never came back and should had listen to that enchanter!. Before that when Ranger's had a patch bugged with delay on bow shooting like a machine guns and we were looking at the sleeper, this enchanter begged to kill the sleeper but it was decided by the leader of AD not to do it..

.. now we wish we had!.

Nice screenshots!.

Krolo
01-10-2013, 02:41 PM
That's why RZ was the lamestpvp server. Along with the fact you had blacklists for people who actually participated (and had anti pk guilds w/e the fuck that means) in pvp and you had a 4 level range iirc.

Tallon/Vallon with coin loot only and 8 level range was the best. That is, until people started xteaming and pande took over.

Truth here.

The big guilds on Rallos Zek had regulations against "unauthorized" pvp. This meant anyone found pvping without their permission was blacklisted.

Whereas on Tallon Zek, the server couldn't even host GM events properly because before a GM could set up and explain the rules, people would already be murdering each other in mass.

As a comparative analogy:

Rallos Zek was the 8th grade prom of servers; the main guilds actively chaperoned and cock-blocked anyone from getting fucked on the dance floor.

Tallon Zek was the Johny Cash at Fulsome Prison; wall to wall mosh pit of the worst murdering raping necrophiliacs known, all wielding shanks ready to stab the next man in the face. It was great.

SamwiseRed
01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
and what would that make SZ or discord lol

Nirgon
01-11-2013, 02:00 PM
RZ was also an FFA server with politics. Being a random PK was pretty much a political death sentence.

People got fucked on the dance floor bro. Hard.

I got respect for a lot of the reputable TZ players.

Skitliv
01-11-2013, 09:42 PM
The fuck are you idiots talking about?
TZ you had guaranteed teammates predetermined for you. Do you know how fucking easy that makes it? Sure, there were politics on RZ meant to discourage random PKing by way of blacklisting and KoS list...but that's exactly why the people who DID pk there were so much more badass- it was us versus the world. Not only the world, but the RAIDING world. So we were infinitely outgeared and outnumbered. Server politics are not indicative of the pvp environment because anyone with any balls ignored the silly "blacklist" concept.
Not even to mention all the different generations of guild wars and the fact that even amongst the "blacklisted" there wasn't complete solidarity.

If you pvp'd on RZ you had at most 10 people on the entire server (if you we're good at making friends) that weren't looking to band together and fucking kill you and camp your corpse in shifts for days. You really think you're special when the server is coded to guarantee 1/3 of the population as being on your team?

Clark
01-12-2013, 06:23 AM
Rallos Zek, best server because of item loot.

Krolo
01-12-2013, 11:42 AM
That is why people find RZ humorous and sad at the same time. The server had every opportunity to become the thunderdome incarnate of EQ pvp. Instead your betters enforced NO PVP regulations on an unregulated server, lol...

The fact that your huge guilds banded together, holding hands to fight the sleeper is a true testament to RZ's pvp impotence. No respectable competitive guild on any other pvp server would have ever let an apposing guild get a free shot on a raid target if they could help it (at least on TZ that is).

On Tallon Zek, a guild (Veneration) awakened the sleeper, not to get a first kill and certainly not to bring everyone together, dick in hand, for a brief moment in history. No, instead they did it purely to fuck over every guild there after from ever farming primals the way you could pre-awakened sleeper. That was how it was done on pvp servers. Fuck, even on the blue servers, the guilds at least new the strategic advantage of cock blocking other guilds from primals (pssst to inhibit competition).

Your hardcore item loot and ffa pvp server rule set means dick if the people that matter are going to carebear it in the first place. Yes, RZ will forever be recognized for killing the sleeper post-luclin with luclin gear. It was a true pve feat and will never be taken away. But the fact that the sleeper managed to stay asleep post luclin so all the heroes could eventually band together for friendship and glory, is just one of the examples of RZ pvp lameness.

SamwiseRed
01-12-2013, 01:14 PM
oh damn Krolo on the offense. I gotta agree with the anti pk thing, whats the point of the server? The only pvp going on was deleveled rogues with epics killing low level 20s. Oh and wizards manaburning people then waiting for CD.

Skitliv
01-12-2013, 07:00 PM
Yes, yes, great arguments. You managed to avoid addressing anything I said though.




As a comparative analogy:

Rallos Zek was the 8th grade prom of servers; the main guilds actively chaperoned and cock-blocked anyone from getting fucked on the dance floor.

Tallon Zek was the Johny Cash at Fulsome Prison; wall to wall mosh pit of the worst murdering raping necrophiliacs known, all wielding shanks ready to stab the next man in the face. It was great.

Speaking of Tallon Zek. Don't you think it's weird that once the pvp servers merged into Zek, the top TZ guild, Pandemonium, made someone from RZ (me) their main pvp assist?

Also, anyone who wanted to join Pandemonium had to duel a current member to gain entrance. Why were two people from RZ (Sendiaz and I, Monk / Ranger) the only people in PDM history to win their entrance duels? Why was I then appointed as the official person that prospective members had to duel from then on in order to join?

Seem's weird to make an 8th grader the gatekeeper to Folsom prison, if your analogy has any merit.

If you don't think being outgeared and outnumbered for years bred the nastiest pvpers of any of the combined servers, you're dead wrong. Tell me the name of someone from another server that you thought was great, and i'll show you someone that I personally sodomized with a claw hammer.

SamwiseRed
01-13-2013, 12:38 AM
lol rz

Krolo
01-13-2013, 10:31 AM
I just explained multiple ways RZ guilds limp-wristed pvp and your rebuttal was "Yes, I joined a Tallon Zek guild".

Dark Team
01-13-2013, 01:25 PM
These arguments are always so silly. In my opinion, EQ PvP was so cool because of the level of depth it added to the game. The fact that things played out so differently on each of the PvP servers (even when comparing VZ to TZ) is evidence of the game being awesome for the sandboxiness and player-driven communities. I loved EQ PvP for the roleplaying and political intrigue, as well as the danger and excitement.

And besides, you made your experience as hardcore as you wanted, no matter which server you were on.

Rallos anti-PK: easy
Rallos PK: way hardcore

Sullon evil team: easy
Sullon good team: way hardcore

Vallon "light" team: easy
Vallon pure team: way hardcore

Tallon was different, as I remember that server being the true FFA server once all the guilds started 4-teaming early in their history. So it depended more which guild you joined than what actual team you were on. I'd say Pande was easymode, just because they always had that gear/level advantage over everyone else. Kinda like how Nihilum is red99 easymode.

RZ going vast anti majority is one of the most interesting occurrences I have ever heard of in MMO gaming. The ruleset was so hardcore that the players actually turned to hardcore policing themselves. That's pretty great imo, and I wish I had played there as well as on VZ, so I could have been a part of it.

That sort of thing is what modern MMOs are missing, and I really don't know if it's ever going to be possible to get that back, as our attitudes toward these games have changed drastically since 1999. These days everyone is a hardcore PK, and it doesn't even mean anything anymore. A true hardcore player on red99 would go against the grain and preach peace and civility in the face of overwhelming odds and neckbeards with daddy issues.

Skitliv
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
I just explained multiple ways RZ guilds limp-wristed pvp and your rebuttal was "Yes, I joined a Tallon Zek guild".

I was blacklisted from RZ guilds, remember? Server merge didn't mean all the RZ guilds suddenly forgot about years of training and massacres. Hell , I was even there at their Sleeper kill with 5 other people trying to sabotage it by killing clerics and newly rez'd at the rez station.

Though truth be told, rz guilds got squashed on the merge. Maybe they did suck.
The point I'm trying to drive home here is that I'm the best pvper in the game.

Krolo
01-14-2013, 12:51 PM
I was blacklisted from RZ guilds, remember? Server merge didn't mean all the RZ guilds suddenly forgot about years of training and massacres. Hell , I was even there at their Sleeper kill with 5 other people trying to sabotage it by killing clerics and newly rez'd at the rez station.

Though truth be told, rz guilds got squashed on the merge. Maybe they did suck.
The point I'm trying to drive home here is that I'm the best pvper in the game.

Ah, I wasn't questioning your skill. If you were one of the few people that took full advantage of RZ's pvp ruleset(or lack there of), props to you.

Nirgon
01-14-2013, 04:34 PM
So you levelled on a server where an item couldn't be taken in PvP? Tell me again how our server was limp wristed again.

You know people lost dragon haste on raids being ganked by people ninja logged in spots? Or people giving inside info?

(Insert Wonka)

You also claim there was raid guild hand holding. Maybe you don't know why Ozuri had to come to Rallos, I don't think you played there so I don't expect you to do anything other than think your server was clearly the best. Here's a hint, he had to put the server under martial law and forbid PvP in raid zones... obviously because what was going on was so "limp wristed".

100 vs 100 in Feerott/Fear or across Cobalt Scar/WW/DN/ToV was so weak and limp wristed let me tell you, esp with the classic EQ client.

And if this is me falling for it? Excellent trolling.

Krolo
01-14-2013, 07:00 PM
100 vs 100 in Feerott/Fear or across Cobalt Scar/WW/DN/ToV was so weak and limp wristed let me tell you, esp with the classic EQ client.


On Tallon Zek, we called this "Tuesday".

Nirgon
01-15-2013, 03:52 PM
Ever had a dragon haste item taken from you in pvp bud? We called that Tuesday.

SamwiseRed
01-15-2013, 04:13 PM
Tuesday on SZ meant you were able to get your corpse after a week of it being corpse camped.

Krolo
01-15-2013, 04:27 PM
Lol.

Nirgon
01-15-2013, 06:10 PM
Never really had that problem even with 2 chars on Sullon (started as evil cleric... rerolled to neutral wizard because of insane population disparity). But same thing on RZ, the corpse camping was rare and when it went on for an extended period, a GM sent a tell if reported to move it along.

Krolo
01-15-2013, 06:18 PM
Loot and Scoot 4ever.

Nirgon
01-15-2013, 06:35 PM
Waiting at someone's corpse and telling them to loot and scoot was good times. Agreed. Telling them to hurry up lol.

handiman
01-16-2013, 03:48 AM
wow the things u find on the Internets when you Google =). So many old names on this thread its nuts, are u guys really playing eq again? Holy fuck im old!

p.s Reddogg > senken =)

handiman -- aka retsam/reddogg

Kringe
01-16-2013, 04:47 AM
Damn Reddogg sup man.

Peacocky
01-16-2013, 08:39 AM
Kringe, Reddogg!! haha long time no see online!.

It true, we can smells rats trying to enter Rallos miles away before the whine.. lmao.

Nirgon
01-16-2013, 12:32 PM
Couple posts in a row here for reasons you can't talk shit about the RZ crew

Mynxx
01-17-2013, 11:54 AM
Are you a complete freaking idiot? FoH was on RZ.Dang wish you noobs would go back WoW freaking kids..:D

Wtf? How can you even try and say you were in FOH when you don't even know the difference from the Veeshan guild FIRES of HEAVEN and the PK guild on RZ FLOWERS of Happiness which was really nothing more than a large group of gnomes and dwarves that would pwn newbies...

Uncledread, it appears you were either very ambitious player that yearned to have a small taste of glory and never got that orrr.....

You're just an idiot who has no idea what he is talking about. Second one seems more fitting.

rykkerrz
01-17-2013, 12:09 PM
Sup reddogg....sz blew.....worst server ever.team server usually a buncha bluebies at heart hiding behind a team.Evils crossteamed and had the numbers already.....I spent most of my time training newts on my own side.Rz was where the real fighting was....battles that meant something...Rather have item loot and ffa pvp anyday vs hand holding.Nothing worse than hating your side more than the other and not being able to kill them.So hardcore to have allies predetermined for you with next to zero penalty for death.Seemed like everyone was worried about loot and pvp was just missing something....