Lazy Mobs Kunark / Velious

[Ikonoclastia]

Mobs in Velious and Kunark are using old world chase mechanics. They should be deaggroing after you move out of chase range.

Posts from 2001 or earlier:

Guide on Pulling in Trakonons Teeth
Use Snare on random attackers. You will get attacked by lots of wandering creatures. It's best to snare them and keep pulling or tracking your real target. These snared creatures will stop chasing and therefor will not be added to your pull once at your group.
http://invectus.www5.50megs.com/guides/TrakTeeth.htm

Monk Pulling Guide
Lazy Aggro

In Kunark and Velious, if you are beyond a certain distance from a mob, it will lose interest and no longer pursue you, though will still maintain you on the hate list with an increased aggro radius.

When the mobs return, the snared mob slowly seperates from the group and can now be tagged safely. Can also be used with reverse pulling. Should a CoH not be available, you can have the snarer zone out or run outside of lazy aggro range.

If not successful immediately, you may use this to increase the distance between the two mobs enough to use lazy aggro and aggro radius to tag or chain tag one.
http://youngsdojo.tripod.com/Pulling.html

Post On Sneak (Luclin era)
have someone outside agro range inviso you, get up run and then drop inviso and mob is off like a shot after you ( with old world agro, Kunark and Veli agro has the lazy arse mob factor as I call it, things that are still agro'ed on you but won't waste the energy to beat on you unless you get back into a decent range where they don't have to run as far ).
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8889


Post on Snaring Giants and Wolfs in Great Divide, Running to Thurg out of Aggro and sitting while you get faction from people killing your deagrroed previously snared mobs.
The method im talking about is simple, go to Great Divide, where most people go to kill giants and drakkel wolves, sow yourself and start running around snaring all the drakkel wolves and giants you see, snared they are easily outrunned so you will be pretty safe no matter how many of them you hit. After doing that for a while, just go to a safe place, sit to med and check how faction raise on its own. You will get all the faction hits for the giants and wolves the people out there is killing. I got A LOT of faction hits this way in an hour, by far much more than the ones i could get in a strong group, and finally raise to dubious with CoV and to ally with dwarfs.

The mobs are snared, so just go run out of lazy aggro. Personally, i would go sit near the enterence to thurg, you should be far enough away that the giants will not come after you, but as long as you stay in the zone, you will get the faction hit when they die.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/faction.html?faction=191

I tested this on Beta today, snared a bunch of giants and wolves, ran to Thurg, about 2 to 3 mins later they arrived so not working as it should I don't think.

[Vega]

Seems like I've seen this talked about a couple times before. Here's atleast one thread on it:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44743

[Ikonoclastia]

Seems like I've seen this talked about a couple times before. Here's atleast one thread on it:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44743
Yeah I haven't seen any real evidence of it posted though. So I did some digging to try to get some.

I think given Velious is very faction oriented without chase working correctly its going to be trivial to raise faction (bard kiting entire zones) and trivial pulling named / bosses next to zone outs with friendly faction pullers.

[Ikonoclastia]

Got some more info on it:

In the original zones, e.g. North Ro, West Commonlands, West Karana etc. mobs will chase you until you zone. In kunark and later zones they made things a bit more sophisticated - if you are on a mobs aggro list and out of a set range, they will "forget about you". Now thats not the same as being off their aggro list - you are still on it, but they just aren't chasing you. If you re-enter their range then they will come after you again. This "range" seems to differ from zone to zone, in Plane of Storms its quite small, while in LOIO if you can see the mob then its re-aggro'd you.
Now I seem to remember, but haven't tested myself, some people saying that they changed a lot of the classic zones to the kunark aggro system when they revamp them e.g. Nek Forest, Cazic Thule were all revamped from their original state.

If you get far enough away from them they will. i.e. put distance between them. But if you dont zone you are still on there agro list so if you go back out they can and will reagro you.
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/do-mobs-ever-give-up-the-chase.28270/

Aggro drop due to proximity was put in during Kunark I believe it was part of the announcements of the mechanics of the expansion, it certainly was not in place during original EQ.
Which would be as long as I can remember, because I started playing during Kunark.
http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1415&t=177118

Bards are talking about it everywhere, since their songs affect the whole party. Partly I believe this has to do with the fact that mobs can "forget" about you in Kunark, but I'm not sure.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9847


The thing is to pull to a place where the banishing point is in Trak's lazy aggro range and getting him into summoning mode before the first trak touch lands.
http://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=6486.0


theres aggro range and theirs lazy aggro range, where your still on the hate list, but they arnt aggro on you if you get back into normal aggro range, but they dont chase
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums//showthread.php?t=19836&langid=2

I usually describe it as three different names:

1) Aggro range

2) Assist range (range a mob sends a 'help' cry around itself)

3) Lazy aggro range (range a kunark or later mob will start chasing again if a person got out of their range earlier)



I think he's talking about Aggro and Lazy Aggro on the Shrooms but I've never fought them so not sure of their characteristics.
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8794&page=2

[Freakish]

Bumping because I remember this. I came back from a WoW hiatus to play on live again and ran from a mob to the zoneline. I sat, regenerated then was shocked when he came after me when I got closer.

[Ikon]

Wondering if this was ever addressed or do mobs still chase you forever in Kunark and Velious. Haven't had a chance to go there yet. It was a fundamental mechanic of Kunark and Velious and not having it in makes aggro management, swarming, kiting, raids and taking named mobs down very different from live.

[Daldaen]

Never got addressed.

A mob aggroed and rooted on Ogre/Spiroc island in TD will chase you 12000' down to the cleric epic cove 15 minutes later.

This is of course incorrect but it will completely change up all ToV raid pulls so I wouldn't hold your breath on this change going in, as much as a good shake up would be nice (and classic).

[Ikon]

Never got addressed.

A mob aggroed and rooted on Ogre/Spiroc island in TD will chase you 12000' down to the cleric epic cove 15 minutes later.

This is of course incorrect but it will completely change up all ToV raid pulls so I wouldn't hold your breath on this change going in, as much as a good shake up would be nice (and classic).
Ahh well, both good as well as bad sides to that, I get to experiment with pulling in Kunark and Velious with pre-kunark mechanics, something new. Perhaps its technically difficult or impossible to implement. Love and appreciate the server nonetheless.

[vouss]

working as intended move to resolved please

[Raev]

This should be a pretty easy fix from a coding standpoint (just filter the hatelist by distance when selecting targets).

There is no need to consider the feelings of the neckbeards here. We will all figure out how to train pull anyway.

[Ikon]

working as intended move to resolved please
Not working as in classic though and thats what this server is about, classic vanilla, kunark and velious. If a dev pops in and says they have no plans to change it then I'll move, or if you can link a post to that effect. Otherwise I'll leave it and perhaps theý'll give it another look. Especially if there will be a green server it'd be a shame not to have the core classic elements and this is a core classic mechanic for kunark and vel.

[Daldaen]

This will be the 2017 bug post of the year. You heard it here first. Haynar doing big things.

[Ikon]

This will be the 2017 bug post of the year. You heard it here first. Haynar doing big things.
Yay.

[Haynar]

Yep. Should be doable soon.

This may be up there at top of my list.

[Ikon]

Yep. Should be doable soon.

This may be up there at top of my list.
I love you.

P.S Corpses are still 7 days regardless of whether your online or not. Online decay was -7 hours of the 7 days per 1 hour online. 7 days if not online. :)

[Haynar]

I love you.

P.S Corpses are still 7 days regardless of whether your online or not. Online decay was -7 hours of the 7 days per 1 hour online. 7 days if not online. :)

I have not worked on that part of code. Not sure.

H

[Crom]

how would this work if I put a snare or a dot on a mob..as long as the effect is on it should keep the aggro even with lazy since else I could just super dot a summoning mob , gate out of range wait till mob is dead and just finish it since this lazy thing would prevent a mob from attacking/summoning me or ?

[Daldaen]

It is almost impossible to outdistance a mob 600' in less than the 10s summon refresh.

The only scenario I can think of is gating across a zone. In which case I believe the de-aggro/forget would occur. It would be as though the mob is unaggroed and go into fast-regen mode.

[Raev]

The funniest part about this will be A/A trying to resurrect train pulls. There is absolutely no way that anyone will accept actually clearing. 600 units is quite a bit, and I'm guessing that the solution will involve a lot of POM bound Necromancers with DA and TL boxes.

[Caiu]

600 units is the distance from Aary to the eashen steps roughly. No this will not be hard to defeat at all until the removal of binding in ToV. Please implement both changes at the same time for an actual challenge.

[Ikon]

how would this work if I put a snare or a dot on a mob..as long as the effect is on it should keep the aggro even with lazy since else I could just super dot a summoning mob , gate out of range wait till mob is dead and just finish it since this lazy thing would prevent a mob from attacking/summoning me or ?
When you dotted a mob and got out of lazy aggro the mob would deaggro, go back to whatever it was doing and regen fast. If your dot was still on it and you reentered the aggro radius it'd reaggro you and your dot would start working again but his hp would be probably full given the speed of unaggroed regen. Aggro always stays on the mob and any mob that he pathed by would also have aggro on you meaning random aggro for as long as you stayed in dungeon or till you FD cleared it.

Oh on a summoning mob I'd imagine it'd summon you. King in Chardok would sometimes gate from zone in and summon peeps and that was outside his lazy aggro, it just won't bother to chase you across the zone.

[lurk]

Mobs would completely mem blur after 10 minutes as long as you do nothing to reagro. Mobs outside of lazy agro would not summon, atleast i know for a fact that overking wouldnt summon you from zone in. I solo'd him at zone in all the time and he never summoned me when he gated.

[Ikon]

Mobs would completely mem blur after 10 minutes as long as you do nothing to reagro. Mobs outside of lazy agro would not summon, atleast i know for a fact that overking wouldnt summon you from zone in. I solo'd him at zone in all the time and he never summoned me when he gated.
You might be right about the summoning thing, would make this quote from the OP make sense:

The thing is to pull to a place where the banishing point is in Trak's lazy aggro range and getting him into summoning mode before the first trak touch lands.

Regarding the memblur after 10 mins, I don't think its correct. When I did the research for this there were a lot of comments about lazy aggro spreading the hate all over the zone and the only way of clearing it logging or zoning. They were referring to wandering mobs though which don't reset at spawn? or do they?. For static mobs who return to spawn I think aggro would be dropped as it normally is when mobs return to spawn.

[Daldaen]

The 10 minute thing is correct, atleast it was on Al'Kabor. It was demonstrated by players there before the server came down. However such a unique aggro mechanic will be very difficult to prove the inception of it. Especially since from 1999-2001 people were still figuring out the basics of the game. You had clerics complaining about the OP nature of Druids and warrior complaining about how good Paladins had it on raids...

But basically, if you're attacking the mob or building aggro in any way, the 10 min timer wouldn't matter. It was only like... kiting a mob around for 10 min without generating any aggro.

[Ikon]

The 10 minute thing is correct, atleast it was on Al'Kabor. It was demonstrated by players there before the server came down. However such a unique aggro mechanic will be very difficult to prove the inception of it. Especially since from 1999-2001 people were still figuring out the basics of the game. You had clerics complaining about the OP nature of Druids and warrior complaining about how good Paladins had it on raids...

But basically, if you're attacking the mob or building aggro in any way, the 10 min timer wouldn't matter. It was only like... kiting a mob around for 10 min without generating any aggro.
Oh fair enough.

[lurk]

Lazy agro definitely varied by mobs or zone or something. Idk but the thing about getting trak to summon you is accurate. That is how he was solo'd. Trakanon might not have had lazy agro. I recall the original boastful bellow AA had no LoS check and some crazy range. Thott posted about it somewhere how he used it to pull trakanon to zone in.

Its crazy how i even remember this little shit from so long ago

[Daldaen]

Boastful Bellow had unlimited range, did not require line of sight and could be used while DA (this was honestly the most OP aspect of the ability)

I remember trying to solo Trakanon later on (70 or so), and if you didn't pull Trakanon to around the one-way door area with the Reets, he wouldn't summon you back after a banish. A little before that works too, in those jugg/reet tunnels.

I suspect summon didn't work if outside the lazy aggro code for banishing and gating mobs *generally*. But perhaps the way the server was coded, on ticks, it was possible on certain gates the mob could instantly summon the first person back, and then the next tick would occur and the mob would check if anyone in its aggro list is within their lazy aggro range, at which point they would stop trying to summon or chase anyone.

What I'm curious on, is what happens when you have two people. Let's say a Druid with 3000 Hate from snaring and a Warrior with 6000 Hate from tanking. If that Druid stays near the mob, and the warrior runs far away, eventually the mob should turn on the Druid and chase him because the Druid is within his lazy aggro radius. But what happens when the warrior returns? If the 10minute aggro dump rule occurs the warrior would of course have a clean slate and not be on aggro. But if he returns before the 10 minutes, it should theoretically break off the Druid and continue to chase him when back in Range. Could make for some interesting pulls if well coordinated.

[Haynar]

I remember trying to solo Trak. And wasn't getting summoned back. Because I was too far away.

I am going to try and get lazy aggro coded up this week.

[lurk]

Youre probably right about having to pull him a certain distance. And the first solo i can remember was done by a druid by pulling him to banish point actually.

clear all the see invis mobs from zoning to trak lair

- kill the cleric shrooms around "trak touch's room"

- kill the 2 mobs in "trak touch's room" + the roamer that comes inside (some roamers seem to have a very long path, not much to do about those)

- run invis to trak room, aggro him and pull it out of the room. there will be a train of juggs + trak. pray for him to touch you before you get killed.

- you pop up in the empty "trak touch's room". wait for the train to come to you, including trak (about 1mn for them to come from trak room)

- egress / exodus and run back, trak "camp corpse" for about 5mn, he should still be there, alone without the train

- good luck with the fight, he is a badass. hits for 650, proc 1500 drain life and the touch still interrupts the castings and makes it hard to corner tank. he runs at 15% HPs, cant be hit from out of melee range. takes 3 / 4 nukes to finish him, most likely with 2+ shrooms on you for the last 2 / 3 nukes.

Been spending about 20hrs on it over 2 weeks to find out this strat and manage a victory

[Daldaen]

I remember trying to solo Trak. And wasn't getting summoned back. Because I was too far away.

I am going to try and get lazy aggro coded up this week.

Haynar is there anyone I can talk to about getting on the P99 test server to test the code on these things to verify it works as described?

I imagine it will take a few different fixes to work out a fully functional lazy aggro code.

[lurk]

Missed this one

- Trak comes to the room he touches to by himself, the touch room is out of range from his lair (happened to me to get touched too early and he wouldn't come), he is close enough when I pull him to the bridge

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-5766.html

Gives an idea of the range of lazy agro. Out of era but seriously this was always a thing. If you werent aware of it then you didnt pull classic

[Ikon]

Lazy agro definitely varied by mobs or zone or something. Idk but the thing about getting trak to summon you is accurate. That is how he was solo'd. Trakanon might not have had lazy agro. I recall the original boastful bellow AA had no LoS check and some crazy range. Thott posted about it somewhere how he used it to pull trakanon to zone in.

Its crazy how i even remember this little shit from so long ago
That quote verifies what you're saying. They're saying you need to pull him to a spot so when you're banished you'll be inside his lazy aggro range so you get summoned back, otherwise youll be too far away and he won't summon you. So I'm agreeing with you, you are right.

[Crom]

before this goes in will there be a fix for NPC's casting, so it's interrupted if you move out of casting range so it isn't like to day, you can be across the zone and npc spells still land if they started casting before you moved out of range? would be less fun to be nuked by disengaged NPC's

[pasi]

I remember trying to solo Trak. And wasn't getting summoned back. Because I was too far away.

I am going to try and get lazy aggro coded up this week.

I soloed Trakanon almost everyday in PoP and Gates (made a lute for UDB to spawn him). I was that SK; wish SK.org or TSW still stood. There's a log that I have posted here of my soloing if you have any doubts. It's also available on Allakhazam's way back machine.

Anyhow a few things.
Normally when you did Trakanon, you ran up and smacked him and he would banish you. He had a rune (necromancer) and his banish was off-cooldown, so you wouldn't do much damage. I generally used my Vanazir for 30MR (along with stuff like RoR which was 60 MR) as his deadly lifetap was the only concerning thing. However, during Gates I started using my Barxt Javelin which hit a lot harder and ran into the issue of bringing him below 97% before I was banished.

You would always clear the banish room prior to engaging him and you needed to clear any nearby Adepts that room or were in the nearby room (there is another room nearby that you reach by turning left when facing the tube-shoot to Juggs). These dudes would CHeal him through walls, without being aggroed on you. As an SK, killing an adept with another nearby was the hardest part of soloing Trakanon. Got a lot easier when I purchased the Timestone Ring from CT which mana-drained these bastards.

Trakanon was social with Myconids and you didn't want adds. Luckily, Trakanon corpse camps for a long time. So, you wait until got Trakanon to the area right outside the banish room right in the Myconid area with the tube shoot to Juggs. You would then FD. After aggro cleared, you would FD pet pull him single into the banish room. If you aren't familiar with pet pulling, you would FD, /pet attack, then /pet hold (or spam pet back). After your pet hit the mob once, you could stand up/move and the mob would come single provided your pet didnt hit it again. This worked on every single non-linked mob in the game, the only limiting factor was pet HP (which things caster NPCs or bestow DA solved).

Anyhow, that's enough for strategy, just wanted to give some background.

I started using mySEQ in Gates of Discord, so everything was very visual. If you engaged Trakanon in the back of his lair and were banished, he would not summon you. You did remain on his aggro list though. MySEQ had a delay on showing far-away NPC movement, so it is difficult to accurately say his behavior. To clarify on that, he would update on MySEQ as making jumps. Generally got about 3 movement updates on MySEQ all indicating he was moving toward you. Around the time he would reach the Jugg Area, his movement was synched up with mySEQ.

Now for the times when I took him to sub 97% prior to banish. I never was immediately resummoned into the layer, but Trak would not regenerate as if he was out-of-combat. He would; however, chase me. The first summon would be around bridge outside his lair or the ramp up into his lair where him and a few juggs would be waiting. Then, after another banish, I would usually get summoned again in the Reet tunnels, and then one last time on the Juggs door. After that, he was usually in my spot where I pulled him from.

He had to have chased me somewhat to get to the area where I always got first summoned. To my knowledge, many NPC summon abilities have a maximum distance. Call of the Zero is 600, I'm not sure what Trakanon uses, but my experiences indicate that his chase range is longer than the maximum distance on his summon ability.

Deviating from that a bit: do you plan on implementing leashes in the sense that if no player is X-distance from the NPC, the NPC returns back (but maintains it's aggro list, so it will chase a player who gets within X-distance) or do you plan on having it such that if the NPC is Y-distance from it's spawn, it leashes. I would strongly argue that the former is the proper mechanic.

[Daldaen]

Don't think anyone is arguing for leashes to be to spawn points.

It's all about distance between mob and PC.

[Haynar]

Don't think anyone is arguing for leashes to be to spawn points.

It's all about distance between mob and PC.

Yes. This.

[Daldaen]

Haynar is there any chance I could test whatever fix you might have in the works before it goes live? Or is your test server for this a closed thing?

There a ton of little nuances with this and it would be great to test it all out before it launches.

[Haynar]

I don't have a test box up that anyone could get on.

First pass its a 1000 distance chase range.

Also from eqlive. There is what look like a 24 sec timer, they will chase even out of range, starting from when you last did damage. Should they summon during this? Unknown. Probably not. I think the summon range may be tied to chase range. Getting this addition chase mechanic done complicates it. Thats why i want to get first iteration of chasing in. Then I can work on the 24 sec chase after dmg.

H

[Daldaen]

So the summoning I believe should be within chase range.

Trakanon being a prime example. He wouldn't summon you back to his lair but he would if you pulled him to the Jugg/Reet tunnels.

I had thought that most of the tests showed 600' range for typical zones and mobs. But I guess 1000' is more generous for an intermediate value.

I wonder if that 24 second timer is just how often the server checks up on it?

The main thing I'm interested in is how re-aggro will work. For example a mob gates on you, and is outside of chase range. Let's say even with 24 seconds of running it still doesn't get in range, and it starts pathing home. If I then go back within the 1000' chase range, does the mob reaggro me? If it's fully reset to its bind point or pathing node? What if it's only still walking back not fully reset? Will it ever deaggro (10 minutes of no action for example caused a deaggro at some point also)

Also another question is how would assist calls function during those 24 seconds. The mob is continuing to chase, and it runs past some mobs on the same faction. I would imagine this wouldn't snowball right? IE Mob B gets assist aggro and runs for 24 seconds where it tags mob C who then gets assist aggro and runs for 24 seconds.

[Haynar]

You go out of chase range. They go home. You are still on their hate list. You get in range they are coming. Only drop from hatelist at this point is the 10 min timer. Its not a FD mechanic that drops you when they get home.

I have not played with the 24 sec mechanic enough. The problem on live. Is they completely drop you at 30 sec. You dont linger if ur out of chase range more than 30 sec after doing damage. I have conflicting info how classic should be.

[Haynar]

More evidence points to 600 range than 1000. So when I update to add the addition 24 sec chase after dmg, will drop range to 600.

[Daldaen]

How will this function with mobs that give FTE Messages Haynar?

If I pull a mob, say... Klandicar to the Siren's Grotto zoneline, and I outdistance him the 600'. He then proceeds to chase for 24 seconds and when still not in range, he resets to his bind, but he keeps me on his hatelist.

Will a new player aggroing Klandicar generate a new FTE message since he is technically resetting without "aggro" (even though he remembers the first player who is now out of range... he isn't actively pursuing him).

[Daldaen]

If there is no way for the mob to give a new FTE message while it still remembers a player outside of its chase radius, maybe set it to forget that player after 24 seconds? Dunno if there is a way you could set this to just a handful of mobs with FTE flags or not.

[Haynar]

On eqlive they forget at 30 sec if beyond chase range.

Current way would mess up FTE.

Going to try and work out 24 and 30 sec part later. It may have to follow eqlive closer. Otherwise it will mess up the FTE BS games.

[pasi]

From my recent play experiences:

I've noticed that mobs that fall under a raid NPC title (i.e. changed to takes an army to defeat!) leash at a much longer range than NPCs.

With EQ live now, you can see when NPCs assist and go on your aggro list with the extended target tracker. I was joking around pulling Zlandicar through Chetaris to test if Zlandicar was still social with Jaled Dar (an abomination of Lore!). Zlandicar chased me from a very long range. The chetaris that assisted him would be on my extended target list for a short while and then leash.

This could possibly be explained that primary aggro targets (in other words, mob that you specifically aggroed, not something that is assisting an NPC) leash at this range. I'll have to test that.

For the record, I think the above change would be a terrible change for the server, but it is what I'm seeing.

I can upload some videos later.

[Haynar]

For the record, I think the above change would be a terrible change for the server, but it is what I'm seeing.
It might make raiding a challenge instead of a loot pinata. That would be bad.

[pasi]

To clarify:

That observed behavior would be raid mobs leashing at a larger distance than non-raid mobs. This is what I have observed in testing Velious on live.

That is the change I think would be terrible. I fail to see how that change would make raid mobs easier. If anything, that makes them far easier to pull.

Also, what are you using to gauge distance to target? SEQ?

[Crom]

Feels like this change will open up exploits with FTE after a wipe, poor GM's

[Haynar]

Also, what are you using to gauge distance to target? SEQ?
I R stupid dev. I not no how ta mezure distunce.

[pasi]

(on live servers)

[Haynar]

Also. FYI. In a dungeon, the chase distance is actual pathing distance. Not straight line distance. It is not a simple mechanic to reproduce. More data is needed for raid mobs. So it will likely require several updates. Then people will exploit mechanics. Get banned. Making more changes needed. It is such fun, trying to predict what FTE exploit is next.

[Haynar]

(on live servers)

It requires multiple chars. Watching when they stop following. Since I am also a dev for showeq, i usually use myseq on multiple chars to figure out where they stopped chasing. In dungeons i get on a test emu box then, and use some specialized commands to calc pathing distance between multiple points. Its really a pain in the ass actually.

[Izmael]

I'm pretty sure Lazy aggro went in after Luclin was released.

This breaks a fundamental mechanic that contributes setting classic EQ apart from most/all comparable MMORPG out there.

Please consider restricting lazy aggro to relevant zones such as ToV. <3

[khanable]

^ prove it

[Izmael]

^ prove it

Ask anyone who played before Luclin was released and I'm sure they will confirm that once you aggroed a mob, you could run away from him from as long as you'd like, the mob would never forget you.

It's something that has been added WAY past Luclin release.

[khanable]

That's not proof

[Lazie]

Ask anyone who played before Luclin was released and I'm sure they will confirm that once you aggroed a mob, you could run away from him from as long as you'd like, the mob would never forget you.

It's something that has been added WAY past Luclin release.

There are a lot of posts pre-luclin supporting this.

So saying your memory is more correct than posts from that era isn't proof.

[Izmael]

There are a lot of posts pre-luclin supporting this.

So saying your memory is more correct than posts from that era isn't proof.

Link to one which is convincingly dated and I'll eat my hat.

[Izmael]

That's not proof

Actual firsthand witness isn't proof? Of course it is.

[khanable]

Link to one which is convincingly dated and I'll eat my hat.

Read the thread

[Lojik]

I remember stuff forgetting me pre-luclin

[Izmael]

Read the thread

The ones referred to in this thread weren't convincing.

[khanable]

You didn't find this convincing?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=356267&postcount=6

[Izmael]

You didn't find this convincing?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=356267&postcount=6

You did?

It's dated 08-07-2011, 02:22 PM

[khanable]

It's a first hand witness. That's proof now, remember?

[Izmael]

But you said that wasn't proof, you need posts dated back in time etc.

Any way, cut the crap.

Mobs weren't forgetting you back then, under no condition (except blur / death / zone ofc).

Aggro a chicken in DL by FV zone and run all the way to the wiz spires, the chicken would SO follow you there.

[khanable]

Look, people have posted proof and the devs accepted it. No one gives a shit about your word.

Post proof or stop posting.

[Haynar]

For every post saying it existed, there is alway one that says it didn't.

Which do you believe?

Who do you believe from players? The ones who prove they are idiots time and time again?

It's in. Not perfect. But it is a start.

H

[Haynar]

Haynar, I am not disputing that this change should of happened, but a few other things should of been fixed before this to make it an acceptable transition for our raid scene.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205328
and
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257344

Also while we are on the "mob agro" subject I have been bumping this post for 3 years without even a dev response.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139980
I don't do mob pathing. So not sure about "safe spots" for CotH.

Faction hits on drakes? I don't do those either. No clue what that has to do with putting in other mechanics.

DA functionality? Sure I can fix that.

Now this "acceptable transition" concept. You are joking right? I need the permission from raiders before working on long overdue changes? Shut the front door. Funniest thing I have heard in ages. LMFAO!!!

H

[Freakish]

Shut the front door lol.

[Buhbuh]

Haynar, I am not disputing that this change should of happened, but a few other things should of been fixed before this to make it an acceptable transition for our raid scene.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205328
and
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257344

Also while we are on the "mob agro" subject I have been bumping this post for 3 years without even a dev response.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139980

Vyemm's hp value also isn't classic, if you're really following the letter of the law.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6565

Somehow, I think we go by the "spirit of classic" with some fixes and the strict letter of the law on others.

[Erati]

ty Haynar for looking into DA aggro dump

ty ty ty

[Daldaen]

I don't do mob pathing. So not sure about "safe spots" for CotH.

Faction hits on drakes? I don't do those either. No clue what that has to do with putting in other mechanics.

DA functionality? Sure I can fix that.

Now this "acceptable transition" concept. You are joking right? I need the permission from raiders before working on long overdue changes? Shut the front door. Funniest thing I have heard in ages. LMFAO!!!

H

The first two are things for content devs like Alunova, Telin or Nilbog.

Basically there's a Drake or two in NToV that path through the Doubles and Triplets hallways that shouldn't exist until after Luclin launch. Lots of posts/evidence suggesting there were safe locations to camp or CoTH to here due to those mobs not existing, and some QQ threads complaining about them when they were added in.

The faction thing is basically that the values used on P99 don't match up with the values Live currently shows. The P99 values have been proven to have much higher negative faction hits than the Live values. Since exact values didn't exists pre-2012 on Live, its best to just assume that the Live values are the correct ones, they just need to be applied to a lot of mobs and I assume that's time consuming.

The DA code fix though would be great. For too long has DA existed without the aggro dump.

[Izmael]

Look, people have posted proof and the devs accepted it. No one gives a shit about your word.

Post proof or stop posting.

I'm sorry you seem unable to defend a point of view without resorting to insults.

Maybe you should just shut the fuck up?

[Dillian]

thats nice calling the people idiots. the same lot of idiots of which some do donate. Are they idiots cause the donate too?

[khanable]

ya'll naysayers should read this:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/mob$20forgets|sort:relevance/alt.games.everquest/fPoRO8vXO5M/8JqsNiWdOdUJ

[khanable]

Here's another for the naysayers

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/mob$20forgets|sort:relevance/alt.games.everquest/s6xyqIIQ3BI/YIWAsHwx6rEJ

[Izmael]

Some more input on mob leashing:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/mob-leashing-when-has-it-been-introduced.238435/#post-3506837

"Long ago Kunark mobs did this while mobs in vanilla zones did not. It was possible to hold a long range bow and hit monsters outside of aggro range in Kunark. At some point I think it became the standard but I'd have to check again. Not aware of specific changes made."

Looks like everyone / most people agree on the fact that vanilla zones should not have leashing, Kunark zones should, and Velious - unsure.

[fastboy21]

Some more input on mob leashing:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/mob-leashing-when-has-it-been-introduced.238435/#post-3506837

"Long ago Kunark mobs did this while mobs in vanilla zones did not. It was possible to hold a long range bow and hit monsters outside of aggro range in Kunark. At some point I think it became the standard but I'd have to check again. Not aware of specific changes made."

Looks like everyone / most people agree on the fact that vanilla zones should not have leashing, Kunark zones should, and Velious - unsure.

I recall a dev telling me once at a fanfaire that mobs in vanilla did have a lazy aggro radius, but that it was so big that it was rarely if ever noticed by players in most situations.

Its not evidence, but its a specific conversation I recall with someone that would have been in the know on this stuff.

[khanable]

The two links I posted (velious era and kunark era) both had someone have an example of it working in classic zones. One of the links had someone say more or less what you just said, fastboy. It may have been that "kunark and velious" was a misunderstanding by the players.

[Lazie]

The first two are things for content devs like Alunova, Telin or Nilbog.

Basically there's a Drake or two in NToV that path through the Doubles and Triplets hallways that shouldn't exist until after Luclin launch. Lots of posts/evidence suggesting there were safe locations to camp or CoTH to here due to those mobs not existing, and some QQ threads complaining about them when they were added in.

The faction thing is basically that the values used on P99 don't match up with the values Live currently shows. The P99 values have been proven to have much higher negative faction hits than the Live values. Since exact values didn't exists pre-2012 on Live, its best to just assume that the Live values are the correct ones, they just need to be applied to a lot of mobs and I assume that's time consuming.

The DA code fix though would be great. For too long has DA existed without the aggro dump.

I dont even think the pathers at trips/twins are even supposed to be flurries. It should be 2 pathers of a Wurm and Drake. But yes those were a Luclin addition to remove safe spots.