we should definitely introduce variance.

[Jib]

+/- 8 hours on 3 day spawns
+/- 2 days on 7 day spawns

this will give a huge boost to population for a few reasons

-people will have to constantly track zones if they are dedicated enough to get the raid mob
-mobs will always spawn at a different time of day giving multiple guilds chances at raid mobs
-gives the chance for weaker guilds a better shot of getting a mob

When 1 guild takes all the raid mobs, it kills the server. we have seen this time and time again.

I vote variance and pvp!

[R Flair]

Translation: i lost in pvp and now I want to force the victors to spend time tracking in everquest and hope in the event they miss something, i might have a chance to slay dragons i couldn't win legitimately via pvp on a pvp server.

[Zihm]

i got really excited until i got to the end of the thread title to see the last word of the sentence was "variance" and not "translocators"

[Nocsucow]

Translation: i lost in pvp and now I want to force the victors to spend time tracking in everquest and hope in the event they miss something, i might have a chance to slay dragons i couldn't win legitimately via pvp on a pvp server.

Yea ... Definition of WINNING: to out number other guilds 4 to 1

[R Flair]

Maybe I've taken one too many body slams and blows to the head, but it seemed like just 2 weeks ago both sides had upwards of 50 people.

[Not_Kazowi]

Azrael out numbered nihilum for a couple months, got nearly every raid mob. Didn't complain about variance.

Not sure if serious or troll

[Nocsucow]

Comparing 2 months to a few years........ Seems legit

[Not Salem]

uhh rexx you serious or dumb? pretty sure lite made a few variance posts while we were slaying all the dragons lol

[Not_Kazowi]

Lite making a few variance posts? Great, you guys seemed pretty content with your free pixel farm. You bragged about it every day that's for sure.

Stop being weak and recruit the players to compete. We had a 50v50 a few weeks ago. No reason you guys can't do it.

Dragons spawn mid day on Saturdays and Sundays. Pretty easy to challenge them

[Elderan]

Variance won't equal pvp. It always favors the larger guild and is terrible on blue.

The End.

[Colgate]

Dragons spawn mid day on Saturdays and Sundays. Pretty easy to challenge them

now DIS is trolling

8)

[Koota]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZNfll4xPnfs/Um3kkBgzeBI/AAAAAAAAOcE/CQvQnq-aunQ/s1600/WP_20131022_002.jpg

[mikemandella]

Lite making a few variance posts? Great, you guys seemed pretty content with your free pixel farm. You bragged about it every day that's for sure.

Stop being weak and recruit the players to compete. We had a 50v50 a few weeks ago. No reason you guys can't do it.

Dragons spawn mid day on Saturdays and Sundays. Pretty easy to challenge them

Serious question.. do you have downs? I mean are you really that thick..? When I post the 3 threads still asking for variance during that time will you all of a sudden change your stance?

- Oppressor

[Bamz4l]

Azrael out numbered nihilum for a couple months, got nearly every raid mob. Didn't complain about variance.

Not sure if serious or troll

pretty sure the fact that numbers dictate everything is the problem that OP is trying to address.

[Jib]

bump need variance

[Quiet]

Yeah.... lets make it so a guild has to spend 2 days camping and checking mobs with tracking bots then whoever has the most on at time of spawn(Nihilum --> list chronically cut short these days) or is most willing to spend all their time online out of the vengeful eye of the sun.. ( Nihilum --> thickest most fluffy neckbeards), or mobilizes the fastest ( Nihilum --> not hard to mobilize when you have 15 wizards and 20 people on at any given time compared to 5-6 for the other guys ) wins hands down every single time.

Sounds like that would really throw the balance in favor of the super dedicated players of Azrael / Ensidia. <---- WTF

[Terpuntine]

Heard a rumor Jib starting his own guild and is courting emperor Heartbrand to aid him in running it.

[Quiet]

http://i.imgur.com/P5i4YFI.jpg

Rampage.

[Goobles]

What would be BEST is simulated patch repops during peak hours.

For example:

Mobs repop on Saturday between 3-8pm EST.

Sunday 7% chance of repop
Monday 14% chance of repop
Tuesday 21% chance of repop
Wednesday 28% chance of repop
Thursday 35% chance of repop
Friday 42% chance of repop
Saturday 49% chance of repop

Otherwise, mobs respawn as usual.

Implementing a system like this would allow for a smaller guild to take advantage of repops, instead of having guilds like Azrael or Nihilum lock down raid mobs every week as they repop

[Jib]

sim repops are great but really need variance. its all about the variance to get that population up

[Jib]

exp bonus thats currently in + variance + a new guild? id estimate pop of 350-400 within 2 months

[Elderan]

exp bonus thats currently in + variance + a new guild? id estimate pop of 350-400 within 2 months

Clearly you have no clue how everquest dynamics work.

[quido]

Elderan has achieved more in everquest than one could even dream - trust me, he knows how this shit works

[Quiet]

You guys are Eldermorans. Smaller guilds aren't going to be getting raid mobs that Nihilum doesn't decide they want for themselves. How'd that work out for Red Dawn? Maybe they leave Faydedar up during a sim repop or you can snipe a Talendor, a vox? Can you successfully gear out a guild enough to compete with those loots? Nope. All the Naggy / Vox / Faydedar loot in the world isn't going to bridge the gap for smaller guilds. EQ is a number game and to quote Doogie Howser in starship troopers, "its simple numbers boys and girls, they have more"

Azrael isn't going to compete. Currently full spawns occur Saturday and Sunday. Nothing but bitching and moaning when repops were at odd hours, now they aren't and even with similar numbers, cant compete. The force is strong with the zerg and Lite is a tool with a core group of mutants so full of themselves that they are basically the best reason to app to Nihi. Whats Nihi's main recruiting plug? --> We aren't Azrael lol.
End of story.

Why don't you ask for what you really need. A GM implemented Rotation at a nice safe time so you can log in free of the zerg and kill mobs for yourselves without worry. Maybe scheduled nights you can kill dragons and alternating weeks for each guild. That's your only shot. K thx.

[quido]

get a grip you crybaby before you have a conniption

[Quiet]

No crying seen. Altered perception of reality.

[quido]

When you were bitching about loot in Teamspeak and I told you to "stop fucking crying" and you wigged out, I knew you wouldn't last long.

A man on the brink!

[Jib]

variance would change the state of the server, instead of a dull 5 days with 2 days of contesting, it would be 24/7 contesting. Thus a massive pop boost of people contesting and scouting and just playing the game

Variance a great thing for red 99 and for red 99 pop

[Elderan]

Why don't you ask for what you really need. A GM implemented Rotation at a nice safe time so you can log in free of the zerg and kill mobs for yourselves without worry. Maybe scheduled nights you can kill dragons and alternating weeks for each guild. That's your only shot. K thx.

[mikemandella]

variance would change the state of the server, instead of a dull 5 days with 2 days of contesting, it would be 24/7 contesting. Thus a massive pop boost of people contesting and scouting and just playing the game

Variance a great thing for red 99 and for red 99 pop

I don't see the harm in trying this... Isn't variance classic in velious at some point?


- Oppressor

[Jib]

rotations are for blue
variance is for red

pras red99

[Quiet]

Massive pop boost of level 46 Rangers camping in every 3 minutes to see if mobs are up. People too busy having to sit on 2 day spawns to be able to go and do anything else. Increase in poop filled socks 150%.

I don't remember ever mentioning loot in Azrael Team speak. The only loot I ever got, was the loot I was present for, Tolan's Legs lol, Dragon hero bracer? SEOC?.... Hell even the loot I was present for you'd often hand off to someone else and roll right over me. 4 Gigantic Zwiehanders, 3 swords of rile, you even gave Brainz that 1hs sword in VP and he wasn't even playing Brainz and hadn't in like 2 weeks. Then of course you'd all bitch and moan when I'd draw aggro with my Primary Epic Wep to where I started fighting without a wep. I get the core thing but I just don't care. I remember you calling me out and I think my response was, eat a bag of shit. Same respond I'd give to Lite, Twerk, Wyclef. I'm aware you weren't prepared for some outsider to show up and tell you all your fucktards, it happened. Accept.

I'm not playing this game so and your pals can get better at it. Not when your allegiance and respect for my time put in is less then 0.

I am enjoying Free Agency.

[Jib]

+/- 3 days would prob be better for the 7 day spawns actually

[Goobles]

Variance was never implemented on Live. Patch days were, and effectively created a more competitive raiding atmosphere better than 3am repops on a Tuesday will on this server.

[Quiet]

Wrong, progression had 24 hour variance. It led to 0-24 hours of sitting on a single spawn point waiting for repop. Mobs were spread out so that every day had a different spawn. It was incredibly boring and favored a class of neckbeard that this server has never seen.

[hivemind]

rotations are for blue
variance is for red

pras red99

There are only two types of players who aren't interested in variance (and those two groups aren't even entirely disjoint). The first group of people are players in Nihilum--people who would stand to lose time and/or pixels if variance were introduced. The second group of people are blewbs/ignoranuses that think variance on red would somehow be comparable to variance on blue.

[Goobles]

The thing that variance offers is: each mobs is on a variable timer, meaning each mob will spawn within a window that each guild will track. This helps the bigger, more established guilds. Guilds like Uprising will not be able to compete with forces like Az/Nihilum during these variance repops.

Random server-wide repops allow for Az/Nihilum to fight over mobs, and gives Uprising an opportunity to raid the more trivial mobs while Az/Nihilum are fighting each other.

In the end, all variance will do is give the neckbearders and people willing to answer a 4am batphone more of an advantage.

[Quiet]

In the end, all variance will do is give the neckbearders and people willing to answer a 4am batphone more of an advantage.

[Jib]

exactly why we need variance and the serverwide repops we already get ^

[Quiet]

I guess when ya have nothing better to do in game, ya come to the boards and post rhetorical threads full of the same non-sense that GMs don't even read. Just so you can live vicariously through forum quest. That's why I'm here :D

[Jib]

nope im here saying this because it would increase the server population and give everybody a more even playing field

[Bamz4l]

Massive pop boost of level 46 Rangers camping in every 3 minutes to see if mobs are up. People too busy having to sit on 2 day spawns to be able to go and do anything else. Increase in poop filled socks 150%.

I don't remember ever mentioning loot in Azrael Team speak. The only loot I ever got, was the loot I was present for, Tolan's Legs lol, Dragon hero bracer? SEOC?.... Hell even the loot I was present for you'd often hand off to someone else and roll right over me. 4 Gigantic Zwiehanders, 3 swords of rile, you even gave Brainz that 1hs sword in VP and he wasn't even playing Brainz and hadn't in like 2 weeks. Then of course you'd all bitch and moan when I'd draw aggro with my Primary Epic Wep to where I started fighting without a wep. I get the core thing but I just don't care. I remember you calling me out and I think my response was, eat a bag of shit. Same respond I'd give to Lite, Twerk, Wyclef. I'm aware you weren't prepared for some outsider to show up and tell you all your fucktards, it happened. Accept.

I'm not playing this game so and your pals can get better at it. Not when your allegiance and respect for my time put in is less then 0.

I am enjoying Free Agency.

so u were given loot and then eventually rage-quit over loot? U obviously weren't meant for Azrael to begin with. Look at this kid counting every piece of possible loot he coulda got

[hivemind]

The thing that variance offers is: each mobs is on a variable timer, meaning each mob will spawn within a window that each guild will track. This helps the bigger, more established guilds.

The bigger, more established guild always has the advantage over the smaller, less established guilds. This is because strength in numbers is such a viable strategy, which is largely due to the uncapped nature of raids. The point is, this strength in numbers strategy is inherently far too powerful and having a non-variance system simply makes zerging even more effective.

Even with variance, there will still be incentive and reward to zerg and have zergy guilds. It will just make it so that it's not quite as lucrative/rewarding as it is when they can predict (and set) dragon timers down to the second. Not a very difficult concept to understand, but we've got a special community here on p99.

Also, you should contemplate (and try to realize) that there is less competition on red for raid loot than there is on blue. Think about that for a moment.

[Quiet]

I don't see any crown of riles listed...

[Jib]

hivemind a wise chap, i was just mostly ignoring goobles because im pretty sure he app'd to nihilum and just wants easy quick scheduled dragons with no pvp.

[mikemandella]

Wrong, progression had 24 hour variance. It led to 0-24 hours of sitting on a single spawn point waiting for repop. Mobs were spread out so that every day had a different spawn. It was incredibly boring and favored a class of neckbeard that this server has never seen.

This seems like sound logic. Progression was PVP flagged right? I think we can all agree the Player VS Player aspect adds to the dynamic of any guilds ability to track from zone in and space timers...

- Oppressor

[Quiet]

Just remember Azrael had the chance to be the top guild using numbers. Red Dawn / Azrael Merger would have been formidable and easily over taken Nihilum in the numbers game. They fucked it up. /damagecontrol on

[Sektor]

Just remember Azrael had the chance to be the top guild using numbers. Red Dawn / Azrael Merger would have been formidable and easily over taken Nihilum in the numbers game. They fucked it up. /damagecontrol on

Def would of been nice having Cyren vanco HB on our side. to many as members wanted knowing to do with HB which was annoying when you need neck beard like players to compete

[Sektor]

Def would of been nice having Cyren vanco HB on our side. to many as members wanted knowing to do with HB which was annoying when you need neck beard like players to compete

I hate my phone arg.

[Quiet]

Would have created a total different Dynamic now. But Checkraise is an over educated shit bag. Kind of like a well refined Gyno / Slathar / Tune. Sure he doesn't pump inflammatory BS in to the Forums, or to OOC, or go on 435-2 newb griefing rampage, but he ruins the server in his own way.

I do not believe pvp would have worked with the variance on progression servers and certainly would not have benefitted the server. The server was at best loaded with 300 people willing to play EQ 24 hours straight while sitting on a commode. But because of population and no need for massive zerging. Most raids were done with 40-50 people total and that's on a server with 2k population and unlimited boxing. An environment with 3 top tier guilds, 3 middle tier and 3 lower tier guilds existed and if pvp had been present, it would have forced a guild to inflate its numbers to win battles. So you'd have had guilds rolling 200 strong to fend off whoever else couldn't work together. Similar to now, but with different ratios and #'s.

[Goobles]

If repops happen, main targets for Nihilum/Az are VS Sev Inny CT Trak etc

Lesser mobs like Nagafen, Vox, Talendor and Faydedar can benefit the lower guilds like Uprising. The problem now is, Nihilum/Az have everything spaced out so much that the only option is to wait for an overlap of variance or randomly finding the mobs unkilled which is VERY unlikely. On simulated repops, Uprising and etc can go after these mobs and create a whole new raiding dynamic.

[heartbrand]

You guys are Eldermorans. Smaller guilds aren't going to be getting raid mobs that Nihilum doesn't decide they want for themselves. How'd that work out for Red Dawn? Maybe they leave Faydedar up during a sim repop or you can snipe a Talendor, a vox? Can you successfully gear out a guild enough to compete with those loots? Nope. All the Naggy / Vox / Faydedar loot in the world isn't going to bridge the gap for smaller guilds. EQ is a number game and to quote Doogie Howser in starship troopers, "its simple numbers boys and girls, they have more"

Azrael isn't going to compete. Currently full spawns occur Saturday and Sunday. Nothing but bitching and moaning when repops were at odd hours, now they aren't and even with similar numbers, cant compete. The force is strong with the zerg and Lite is a tool with a core group of mutants so full of themselves that they are basically the best reason to app to Nihi. Whats Nihi's main recruiting plug? --> We aren't Azrael lol.
End of story.

Why don't you ask for what you really need. A GM implemented Rotation at a nice safe time so you can log in free of the zerg and kill mobs for yourselves without worry. Maybe scheduled nights you can kill dragons and alternating weeks for each guild. That's your only shot. K thx.

I think quiet is a crybaby morale killing faggot (who I am forced to love as a fellow jew) and I fully endorse his post as 100% accurate.

The server is over pals, at least when it comes to competing. Sure, the lawn mower man crew of Salem and pals can do some shenanigans in velious and wipe a raid or two, but stealing big mobs? Azrael isn't doing it. Red dawn was the last chance and staff decisions killed the guild. the time to mass recruit again for a new guild was two months ago when the huge influx of new players came. Those people all joined nihilum because the only other option was azrael and this was when azrael was winning all the mobs for fucks sakes!

The only hope you guys have of making this server competitive at this point is either nizzar permanently quitting, or blue copies. All this other bullshit isn't going to accomplish anything.

[Telron]

http://pikewest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/hell-no.jpg

[heartbrand]

The server, and project, is also fundamentally flawed. This is a MMO predicated upon numerous expansions and new content, which allows high end guilds to move on to cutting edge content while younger guilds devour the old content. Here you have year three of Kunark on red99, and nothing beyond Velious.

Quiet is also correct about the azrael / red dawn alliance. I stressed this to people like deluxee and powered and jibeknn repeatedly. Can't lie tho, it feels good not caring anymore and not having to deal with it. Pras the duke, pras wildstar, pras real life.

Edit: teams99 with its summer 2029 release will be fun tho. I just hope it has item loot

[Jib]

exactly why its only about the pvp

[Gaffin 7.0]

forums just make this community awfully worse than people seem to realize, but its addicting and funny as well

[no chewie dont]

how is he gonna say staff killed red dawn when staff made rules especially to protect red dawn carebears

[Quiet]

2029 ? Sounds a little optimistic to me.

If I kill Moral its because I point out the absolute absurdity of some of the things attempted. Pointed out the futility of the numbers game, the gear game and the end game. Sure no one wanted to hear the truth of the matter, truth hurts. The "truth" of a pvp server is why its low population. People roll up on here, and if they don't roll in to Nihilum, most fizzle away or become casual PK. They have an instant expectation of gear and levels and assistance. Rarely seeing 55+ and draining the energy out of the 60s who do dedicate their time...

But it doesn't hurt as much as getting slaughtered in plane of fear, plane of sky. Getting used by players who get the pixels they wanted then bail (yet i'm the pixel whore lol) When people understood the game reality, RD fell apart. Azrael falls apart again and again. When Nizzar was gone and Nihilum was getting steam rolled by Azrael, they stopped logging in. Reality was they couldn't win, so they didn't try.

So yep I pointed that out and people didn't like it. Well too fucking bad pals. Cause what I said happen, did happen. Accept.

[BeautBabeC]

I think the hope of variance is that you guys wouldn't camp the timers 24/7. If it was just people playing the game and dragons randomly being up around the world I bet you a lot more new players would come to play. When a new player comes here and sees that they have to compete with a force of 60 they think " whats the point ". Trust me I just leveled a character with the masses.

Nihilum is 60 people there is another 150+ whoever else would play and the devs should hear everyone's opinion and consider it.

[Obwin]

Many on (or no longer on box) will attest to what HB did. He made server more accessible to people who have not been playing pvp emus since 2005. He created an atmosphere that was open to new players and I was having more fun playing eq than I have had in many years and I didn't even raid.

There are a lot of players out there interested in this box but it's impossible to get involved without getting dragged through the az/nilly shitshow. HB gave all those neutral players a place to meet, exp and learn to pvp together. Sad nearly all of that new blood is gone. Maybe this new group of players will form up into a true third guild but I really don't see anyone else having the time or ability to build something like HB did with Red Dawn. The amount of effort he put into Red Dawn for basically zero reward was incredible. What the vets of this server fail to realize is not everyone wants to be part of the shit slinging, ePeen PVP scene but can still enjoy casual PvP. Personally I have way more fun on Red than any other EQ server but I do not enjoy the "culture" of the server.

Now it's back to choice 1) log in once a week and get shit stomped in(az) maybe snipe 1 mob. Choice 2) join guild which has raid attendance requirements and is not active except during repop.

Fucking miss red dawn. People who can't see how good it was for server are blind. Even if you hate HB at least he brought you a bunch of people to YT.

[Super Hater]

So how many times a week is this post made?

[Quiet]

RD and AZ would have made formidable force. Would force Nihi to recruit harder from Blue and by default increase server population / added pvp / added competition.

Instead AZ used RD to score some easy pixels, shit on them and left them hanging out to dry. Then complained when RD showed up to help Nihilum. Best shot at balancing end game of server in over a year. Blew it.

[Fame]

just wipe, fuck.

[Feniggles]

quiet becoming a very good poster.

[Genedin]

RD and AZ would have made formidable force. Would force Nihi to recruit harder from Blue and by default increase server population / added pvp / added competition.

Instead AZ used RD to score some easy pixels, shit on them and left them hanging out to dry. Then complained when RD showed up to help Nihilum. Best shot at balancing end game of server in over a year. Blew it.

Pretty true and sad story. Really had a chance to see some change for the more enjoyable.

[Tassador]

Red dawn was a bunch of expert pvpers who really got the concept of blue no clue why they didn't work out.

[Gaanon]

Skipped thread but quiet is by far the most annoying human being on the box.

[Awwalike]

talking bout progression server lolll

[Barladore]

Just remember Azrael had the chance to be the top guild using numbers. Red Dawn / Azrael Merger would have been formidable and easily over taken Nihilum in the numbers game. They fucked it up. /damagecontrol on

Nearly everyone in azrael does not want to beat nihilum at the "numbers" game. You are a whiny, lootwhore, moron, who is constantly farmed for free YT.

[iiNGloriouS]

I remember the day I met Quiet, we had an exp group in Seb killing the oh-so-powerful Fungi King.

We brought up the fact that we were all PvPers at heart in Azrael and that was more to us than any pixel. Immediately he starts crying that we shouldn't PvP anyone but Nihilum and should let everyone else be unscathed, all while bitching about 10 other things.

Really miss hearing him whine about whatever he wanted on that day. Jk, go kill Nihilum's immersion too. Your first application to them didn't go so well, is that why you no-lifed Rolfron so hard and thought you were some PvP god camping an sk at each zoneline?

[Rystar]

I love how you guys keep saying variance will raise the pop. Complete bullshit, you guys don't log on now why would variance suddenly get you the 50 required to PvP a mob away from Nihilum?

Just say it like it is, you want some pity dragons from the Devs since you can't take it on your own. We can even get a nice catch phrase for this, call it EQ Obamacare, or better yet call it Nizzarcare.

[Jib]

I love how you guys keep saying variance will raise the pop. Complete bullshit, you guys don't log on now why would variance suddenly get you the 50 required to PvP a mob away from Nihilum?

Just say it like it is, you want some pity dragons from the Devs since you can't take it on your own. We can even get a nice catch phrase for this, call it EQ Obamacare, or better yet call it Nizzarcare.

variance will raise the pop because it will make people log in

[Smedy]

variance is a good counter measure to the braindead tactics of recruiting everything you see and simply win by numbers, eq is definitly not designed to be played on a box with 200 people on it, managing 50-100 members is quiet easy, managing 500-1000 is going to be a lot harder, since the pop is so low you can easily recruit 65% of total server pop and still keep a very manageable number and never loose another encounter

a good counter mesaure to mass recruiting tactics is to do randomized spawns, to let the small clicks get a shot at stuff
that or let people train....

not that i care, just sayin how it is

[Rystar]

variance is a good counter measure to the braindead tactics of recruiting everything you see and simply win by numbers, eq is definitly not designed to be played on a box with 200 people on it, managing 50-100 members is quiet easy, managing 500-1000 is going to be a lot harder, since the pop is so low you can easily recruit 65% of total server pop and still keep a very manageable number and never loose another encounter

a good counter mesaure to mass recruiting tactics is to do randomized spawns, to let the small clicks get a shot at stuff
that or let people train....

not that i care, just sayin how it is

You know I agree with you about the training however you can bet if you add training the population will drop. Not everyone has the skin or the neckbeard for train wars.

[Jib]

You know I agree with you about the training however you can bet if you add training the population will drop. Not everyone has the skin or the neckbeard for train wars.

yep so variance it is let see it happen!

[Rystar]

yep so variance it is let see it happen!

Variance isn't going to make you and yours log in. You know it and I know it.

[Jib]

sure it will

[Quiet]

I remember the day I met Quiet, we had an exp group in Seb killing the oh-so-powerful Fungi King.

We brought up the fact that we were all PvPers at heart in Azrael and that was more to us than any pixel. Immediately he starts crying that we shouldn't PvP anyone but Nihilum and should let everyone else be unscathed, all while bitching about 10 other things.

Really miss hearing him whine about whatever he wanted on that day. Jk, go kill Nihilum's immersion too. Your first application to them didn't go so well, is that why you no-lifed Rolfron so hard and thought you were some PvP god camping an sk at each zoneline?

Chipp must be on drugs?

I've been in 1 Fungi camp ever and it wasn't the day I joined Azrael cause I was level 51 then and we know they aren't exactly sharing that shit.

I only rolled 1 SK on Rolfron zek during Beta and never leveled it past 20. Only played Ranger/Cleric when it went live to level 35ish. Failed server imo.

Pvping everyone for the sake of PVP is the exact reason when you /all Azreal / Ensidia you get 2-6 results total vs nihilum list cut short.

Your like a bunch of instant gratification retards. Ohh we got one YT yay we super power... and alienated half the server. Now we cant even handle the server and fade back in to obscurity for the 20th time. Please, variance, please please we need it.

The only true statement I Think Chipp has ever made, is Wyclef was the worst enchanter on the server. True story.

[Jib]

i dont remember the last time i read something quiet wrote. why the hell does he write an essay per post and how does he find the time/motivation?

[Quiet]

Quiet Quiet is online now
Kobold



Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124

Jib Jib is online now
Sarnak

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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 330

Any questions?

[GradnerLives]

I'm convinced that anyone who supports this idea never played on blue.

Here's what happens when the variance you've suggested is implemented:

Spawns now occur within 8-16 hour windows, requiring a tracker to be online for that full time. DKP is now awarded for tracking for both guilds, as neither can afford to leave a target untracked. Nihilum will work towards spreading the spawn timers out over multiple days so that multiple targets do not need to be tracked at once. In turn, their main raiding force will be camped out at whatever target is currently in window. When a target spawns, nihilum's full raid force will receive a batphone and login.

With a larger pool of members, nihilum will not have any issue keeping people tracking as individual members will have a relatively low number of required hours, since it can be spread out across all members. With more dragon-loot in their bank currently, they will not experience the same level of burnout since there will be many advantages to new apps (OT hammers, cheap trak bp's, Sky-bank, etc.) already inherent to their dominant position on the server. It will not be as difficult to convince new members to track as they are actively downing targets frequently enough that the results of this tracking time will be apparent to new apps.

Since Azrael has a smaller pool of members, they will experience much heavier burnout since each member will be required to track for much longer individually, as it cannot be spread out across as many people. They will likely have to implement a restrictive minimum amount of tracking hours otherwise the burden will fall on a small core of dedicated players (as has happened to blue raiding guilds like FE, IB, BDA when they attempted to dethrone TMO). Since they are not actively downing targets currently, it will likely become more difficult to get new players dedicated to tracking since they will not see the point when they are not seeing results from it.

Variance is more likely to destroy your guild than it is to allow you to get dragon kills. It's happened the exact same way on blue to more guilds than I can remember off hand. FE, Fusion, BDA when they wanted to compete last summer, DA, VD, IB. All of them ended up disbanding or giving up on competing once they burned out or the competition beat them with numbers. The only example of a secondary guild overcoming the main raiding guild on blue (TMO's conquest of IB) happened as a direct consequence of the numbers game. IB had tighter recruitment policies and TMO merged with a few other guilds and accepted pretty much anyone with a pulse at that time.


Here's what happens now:

On Saturday, it was my first experience raiding on a repop day, as I recently apped to nilly. I literally didn't see one azrael player all day, and didn't hear about any azrael contesting targets besides some small number guerilla pvp in VP which really only served to stall nihilum, since azrael didn't appear to have a force large enough to actually down a target. On Friday when we did trak, there was a single Azrael group harassing late stragglers as they made their way to the prep area, but no actual attempt to contest, just an attempt to stall.

Don't act like we zerg everytime just because every so often the full raid force shows up. There were just over 20 people at that trakanon. That's pretty close to the minimum required to actually kill him. You NEED to be able to contest the minimum number of people required to kill him, especially if you don't have VP loot on many of your raiding mains.

If you can't contest spawns with PVP when you know EXACTLY when and where they'll be, what makes you think you can contest spawns when you won't know?

Even with full variance as I'd mentioned in my post in the previous variance thread (i.e. CT spawns in 7 days +/- 7 days, any time from 1 second to 2 weeks after his previous death) a larger raid force has a decided advantage over a smaller one, since they have more players to mobilize whenever it becomes necessary.


In Summary:

Don't fool yourself thinking that nilly will be unprepared or disorganized enough to NOT be camping their entire raidforce out at these targets and contesting with the same number of players they do currently. There will be less PVP on a whole due to how advantageous it will be to have a raid force fully buffed and prepared camped near a target ready to pounce when a tracker calls.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that your off hours crew will be stronger than theirs, since this is really a factor entirely dependent on the total number of members to begin with. They have a larger guild, so they'll have more people willing to camp out and wake up at 4am or 6am than you will.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that it will change from a game of numbers to a game of skill, it won't. This game inherently favors numbers, always has, always will (see: blue server raiding). There is no skill involved in tracking off hours or camping out a raid force. It's all a matter of burning out the other side quicker, and nihilum is in a better position to do that to you than you are to them.


TLDR:

TL;DR: Variance means less PVP, and Nihilum still wins. What's your point?

[R Flair]

Some of them are actually dumb enough to believe that any change may somehow turn the tides in their favor, but most of them are just trolling about variance because they want grief Nihilum as hard as they can by wasting thousands of hours of their EQ time sitting around tracking mobs.

[Kergan]

Doesn't matter how many people say the same thing Gradner, Lite and co. believe poopsocking leads to PVP somehow. It's not even worth defending anymore, you can probably find 5 threads created by Azrael members in the last few months alone asking for variance. It's the same half dozen vocal minority members asking for the same thing only to have most everyone disagree with them. It is about as dead of a horse as we have on R99.

The only official response we've ever been given is that variance isn't happening. Until that changes it's better just to ignore the variance threads every 3-4 days when a new one pops up instead of rehashing the same arguments and giving it free bumps.

[Zihm]

Some of them are actually dumb enough to believe that any change may somehow turn the tides in their favor, but most of them are just trolling about variance because they want grief Nihilum as hard as they can by wasting thousands of hours of their EQ time sitting around tracking mobs.

Wooooooo!

[Jib]

if somebody wants to poopsock 24 hours a day until a raid mob spawns i commend them, i would never do anything of the sort.

in my eyes it would allow raid mobs to be up a few hours before somebody even realizes its up.

either way it would raise the pop.

variance a good thing for p99 red

[R Flair]

In no way does it raise the pop. It does absolutely nothing but grief members of the guilds willing to track mobs and leads to completely uncontested boss encounters as opposed to affording the opportunity to contest mobs on a known timer.

[Zalaerian]

Mobs will pop at 4am and be dead by 430. Azrael won't even know they poped until the next day. Sounds like a lot of pvp will happen....

[Kergan]

if somebody wants to poopsock 24 hours a day until a raid mob spawns i commend them, i would never do anything of the sort.

in my eyes it would allow raid mobs to be up a few hours before somebody even realizes its up.

either way it would raise the pop.

variance a good thing for p99 red

Man.

Alright fine. Humor me.

How will the population increase by adding variance?

Ugh.

[Supaskillz]

if somebody wants to poopsock 24 hours a day until a raid mob spawns i commend them, i would never do anything of the sort.

in my eyes it would allow raid mobs to be up a few hours before somebody even realizes its up.

either way it would raise the pop.

variance a good thing for p99 red

Must not have played on blue ever. Blue has had variance for sometime. An FFA raid mob living for 5 minutes would be some kind of miracle.

[Jib]

variance would add population because people wouldnt know when mobs popped so they would have to be online in order to find out when... + pop

another reason is it would give + pop is it would allow more guilds to get raid targets. i understand none of you have lives that are here posting against variance but some people do work and leave their basements now and then. when these people cant schedule raid mobs it allows more guilds to get targets, thus more guilds more pvp and more pop

variance is totally what is needed on p99 red

[Jib]

in fact id rather have +/- 24 hours on 3 days spawns and +/- 4 days on 7 day spawns that would be so much better

[mikemandella]

Jibeknn. give up.. just let Nihilum farm the box in peace... The GM's do not care. They were perfectly happy farming a empty box two years ago and will be just fine to farm an empty one now.

-Oppressor

[Jib]

its up to the players at this point, the gm's have done so much. the only thing left they can do is add variance.

[hivemind]

There are only two types of players who aren't interested in variance (and those two groups aren't even entirely disjoint). The first group of people are players in Nihilum--people who would stand to lose time and/or pixels if variance were introduced. The second group of people are blewbs/ignoranuses that think variance on red would somehow be comparable to variance on blue.



For instance...



I love how you guys keep saying variance will raise the pop. Complete bullshit, you guys don't log on now why would variance suddenly get you the 50 required to PvP a mob away from Nihilum?

Just say it like it is, you want some pity dragons from the Devs since you can't take it on your own. We can even get a nice catch phrase for this, call it EQ Obamacare, or better yet call it Nizzarcare.

Variance isn't going to make you and yours log in. You know it and I know it.

I'm convinced that anyone who supports this idea never played on blue.


Doesn't matter how many people say the same thing Gradner, Lite and co. believe poopsocking leads to PVP somehow.

Some of them are actually dumb enough to believe that any change may somehow turn the tides in their favor, but most of them are just trolling about variance because they want grief Nihilum as hard as they can by wasting thousands of hours of their EQ time sitting around tracking mobs.

In no way does it raise the pop. It does absolutely nothing but grief members of the guilds willing to track mobs and leads to completely uncontested boss encounters as opposed to affording the opportunity to contest mobs on a known timer.

Must not have played on blue ever. Blue has had variance for sometime. An FFA raid mob living for 5 minutes would be some kind of miracle.


How unexpected.

[Zalaerian]

What are you trying to say

[GradnerLives]

So how do you propose that variance will be different on Red than it is on Blue?

I would argue that the only people that appear to be in favor of variance are a select few Azrael members and others who have no past experience with the baggage that comes along with variance.

I don't see any reason to cherry pick these posts and highlight/bold the parts say who they are, rather than looking at any of their arguments and forming a coherent rebuttal.

You appear to have read the first line of my post.
Congrats.
Now what about the rest of it?

[R Flair]

What are you trying to say


Think he is trying to say players fighting over mobs at a set time is bad, and random pve without pvp is good. Also, that I'm a blue player for thinking this (never played blue, sorry).

[Xantille]

This discussion is based on the false assumption that GM's care about this server, tbqh

Every emu PvP server's power balance is cyclical, until one side recruits nearly the entire server (this is going to happen sooner rather than later). Shit is vlassic, tho. Not even mad bro

[Zalaerian]

Variance never gonna happen. Best bet is to just log in during prime team on a weekend if you want a shot at the belt. Tho looks like most of you logging off 4 ever


O well

[Littlegyno 11.0]

Variance never happen. Best just in during prime team on a weekend if you want a shot that the belt. Tho looks like most of you logging off 4 ever


O well

they can't fight the power of the duke.

[Xantille]

Variance never gonna happen. Best bet is to just log in during prime team on a weekend if you want a shot at the belt. Tho looks like most of you logging off 4 ever


O well

Naw bruh. I'll still be at KC to embarrass ppl and trigger the NEEHEEELYUM ring event

[hivemind]

So how do you propose that variance will be different on Red than it is on Blue?


I didn't read beyond the first line of text, because I know that you either did not read or did not understand what I had posted. I didn't need to read past your first line to know that you were wrong, as your first line put you into the secondary category of fallacious arguments I outlined in my previous post.

I have actually talked to great length about how variance would be different on red vs blue, as well as why variance is a good idea in general (for red). I encourage you to familiarize myself with my last posts, not so much so you can see my input on the subject matter, but because you have demonstrated (multiple times at this point) that your critical thinking and reading comprehension skills are lacking, at best.

My most recent post in this thread featured some brilliant color-coding intended to ease the task of comprehension, as I knew I would be preaching to a "special" community. Obviously that fell brutally short of conveying meaningful information, hence why I encourage you (in a very general sense) to practice your reading abilities... perhaps using some of my other posts as exercise material.

At the very worst, you will encounter some beautiful haikus I have written that celebrate the fine red99 community.

And one last thing, since you still don't seem to get it: If you find yourself making mental comparisons (let alone sharing those comparisons in this thread) about how red will be like blue... consider the *possibility* that you are more familiar with red than you are blue. Consider the possibility that you are a carebear, somebody who enjoys this "PVP" server not because of the PVP that you or anyone else can find here, but because it is a watered down version of blue99 with less contesting for pixels and gear. Your brain makes a comparison to blue because you have don't have a clue what red is. Not just this server, in general. And having killed your bard on multiple characters of mine, I have to say that my hypothesis is not far from the truth.

Also, you are guilded Nihilum now, no? Big surprises.

[Xantille]

Ok, ok. Here's the truth:





We're all getting voice changing software and joining Nilly to bring it down from the inside.




Glad I got dat off my chest

[Jib]

this server would be so damn fun for the common man if variance was implemented

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Variance is fucking terrible.

Honestly it is. It is the bluest solution to a blue problem, THATS why you get the blue perspective on it because the easiest way to ameliorate it or remove the competition is to outbeard the other side. If you don't have a tracker, you won't get the mob. Simple.

If you bring a group of 55-60's to root out the tracker it will be a 46 ranger parked high up on a perch. If you defeat him you will need to counter track against an army of other toons.

If you don't know the time of death you'll be even further behind the 8 ball come the next spawn.

If if if. I'm not here to knock on you if you think otherwise. You're free to have your own opinion but variance will bring out yet another way for a bigger, more dedicated force to curb stomp you for pve content on a pvp server.

Edit: iPhone makes it difficult to type

[Kergan]

Ok.

Let's try this for a change and see if it works.

No re-quoting. No shit talking. No name calling. No ridiculous TLDRs by Hivemind.

Pro variance people post the top three reasons they think variance will be good and help the server. Try to limit your reasoning per item to two sentences or less. Anti variance people can then quote the short lists and give their counterpoints.

Then for the love of all that is good and holy can we accept that all of our opinions are out there and leave this dead horse alone forever? Repeatedly posting is just going to hurt your agenda. Let's get it all out there in this thread, confine it and move on to other topics. The staff will be able to look at the posts after this thread and evaluate if variance would be good for the server without having to sift through 10 pages of bullshit.

I swear it is the only thing I'll ever ask of you all.

[hivemind]

No re-quoting.

It is impossible to demonstrate in my own words how ignorant, oblivious, and otherwise hilarious people are without quoting the source directly.

[R Flair]

It is impossible to demonstrate in my own words how ignorant, oblivious, and otherwise hilarious people are without quoting the source directly.

If u didnt think u were so smart, no one would.

[Feniggles]

think i should start a thread for the removal of yellow txt, it contributes to plugging

[iiNGloriouS]

Chipp must be on drugs?

I've been in 1 Fungi camp ever and it wasn't the day I joined Azrael cause I was level 51 then and we know they aren't exactly sharing that shit.


Nah, because I remember Lite pulling King for us and this was around the time Red Dawn came back in November. I guess my memory is astounding compared to yours heh.

[Jib]

server pop
server pop
server pop

3 reasons

[Kergan]

With quality arguments like those is it any wonder the staff has shit on the variance idea for months?

[Jib]

you ask for 3 reasons when there is only 1 reason for variance, it will drastically increase the server pop... dont need 3 reasons

[Kergan]

Variance actually will make it rain blood and disrupt the space time continuum.

See, I can make shit up and present it as a fact too.

[GradnerLives]

The increase in effort required, in man hours, is a static number.

If you create an +/-8 hour variance, resulting in 16 hour windows, the minimum amount of effort required to guarantee a spawn is increased by 16 hours across the board, as you would need a number of players to take shifts tracking the mob throughout its window.

The current amount of effort without variance is based, basically, on the number of people that the largest guild represented for the spawn camps out at or near the spawn. If nihilum camps out 60 people - and 40 people end up logging in - and it takes an hour to take care of any PVP contest and then the mob - then the total number of man hours required is 40 + 16 for any other guild to reasonably contest the spawn.

You can also next to guarantee that the number of people who will be available for an off hours spawn will be a similar ratio on each side. If 40 of Nilly's 60 show up, then it's likely that if Az camps 30, 20 will show up.

There's a bit of variance afforded to extreme examples of player skill over numbers, but it doesn't change much. Skill still can't change a 20 vs 40 battle that much (there have been examples where it's happened in the past, absolutely, but not as many as the examples in which numbers have trumped any amount of player skill).

56 man hours divided by 60 people versus 56 hours divided by 30 people leaves the guild with 60 people camped out in a better position to contest the spawn by a longshot. They will have to put in less hours per person and, with the same ratio of camped out players logging in, they will have a larger raid force.

The increase of effort must be echoed by every involved raiding party, and since the 16 hours of extra tracking man hours can be divided over any number of different players, the larger raiding party actually has to put in less additional effort than each smaller raiding party.

Variance would therefore require considerably more effort from smaller guilds than it would for larger guilds. It would GREATLY increase the amount of effort required by each individual member of the smaller guild while SLIGHTLY increasing the amount of effort required by members of the larger "dominant" guild.

Each party would be inconvenienced to the same degree in terms of the schedule, but more inconvenienced unless they have an even or larger number of players available to track and camp out.

Referencing the 6am dragon spawn era (as you did in your initial post on the subject which I read out of courtesy to you, Hivemind) only further proves how much effort nihilum is willing to put in to win. If you think that variance forcing these 6am spawns is going to change anything, that's just flawed logic, dog. They CHOSE to wake up off hours to kill the dragon if it meant winning, why wouldn't they continue showing up at 6am?

You can present some perfect-world argument that azrael would login more people despite a smaller population because they want it more, or that player skill would allow them to overcome the current numbers game in a pvp contest, but if either of those were true then they'd be doing just fine under the current system. A change in 16 man hours just makes it harder for guilds that are already having a tough time.

This is not at all indicative of the issues with variance on blue, where I come from, and none of it is biased by my position as a nilly app, since I'm completely willing to put in a few tracking hours where I can and wake up at 4am to slay the dragon - regardless of what guild that may be for.

[Jib]

its common sense

vote for variance

[Kergan]

I think we should make all raid mobs triggered, only when 50 cloth tunics are turned in to an NPC by different unique player avatars within a 60 second time period. Also, raid target will despawn if anything less than 40 players are on it's agro list after first engage.

Thoughts?

[Jib]

variance a better idea

[Kergan]

naw

[Jib]

yep

[Feniggles]

naw

[hivemind]

Here are the three (6) reasons I think variance should be introduced.


1. More competitive server (top raid force will be required to invest more time/effort to continue getting as much loot as they currently do).

2. Raid targets will die with less average people present each time (since there won't be a globally known, static timer associated with any raid target any longer). This will make the pve encounters and whatever pvp contesting occurs for pve encounters more skill (and less zerg) based.

3. PVP will be more spontaneous (ie less predictable) since 95% of lvl 60 pvp occurs around raid bosses. Since bosses will be spawning less predictably (ie more spontaneously), the PVP will be less forced/staged and occur both more continuously and more spontaneously.

4. Guilds will be rewarded more for their ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly execute a boss as opposed to setting up raid times one week in advance for their entire guild to prepare and recruit for. More people will still translate into more power (don't worry Nihilum), but there will be less of a double/triple/quadruple incentive to stack players for pve and pvp strategy (since timers will not be predictable down to the second).

5. A more competitive server will attract more players and more guilds, and take some power away from the "zerg everything" approach, allowing guilds to care about more than just pure size/numbers. Again, greater emphasis will be placed on a guild or group's ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly/cleanly execute as opposed to brute-forcing an encounter they have a timer of a week in advance.

6. Implementation of variance will make Nihilum cry more than they do now just at the prospect of variance.

[GradnerLives]

Here are the three (6) reasons I think variance should be introduced.


1. More competitive server (top raid force will be required to invest more time/effort to continue getting as much loot as they currently do).

2. Raid targets will die with less average people present each time (since there won't be a globally known, static timer associated with any raid target any longer). This will make the pve encounters and whatever pvp contesting occurs for pve encounters more skill (and less zerg) based.

3. PVP will be more spontaneous (ie less predictable) since 95% of lvl 60 pvp occurs around raid bosses. Since bosses will be spawning less predictably (ie more spontaneously), the PVP will be less forced/staged and occur both more continuously and more spontaneously.

4. Guilds will be rewarded more for their ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly execute a boss as opposed to setting up raid times one week in advance for their entire guild to prepare and recruit for. More people will still translate into more power (don't worry Nihilum), but there will be less of a double/triple/quadruple incentive to stack players for pve and pvp strategy (since timers will not be predictable down to the second).

5. A more competitive server will attract more players and more guilds, and take some power away from the "zerg everything" approach, allowing guilds to care about more than just pure size/numbers. Again, greater emphasis will be placed on a guild or group's ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly/cleanly execute as opposed to brute-forcing an encounter they have a timer of a week in advance.

6. Implementation of variance will make Nihilum cry more than they do now just at the prospect of variance.

naw

[Awwalike]

All I know is Nihilum is against variance therefore it must be an extremely beneficial change that would promote server population and extend regular player longevity.

[R Flair]

Here are the three (6) reasons I think variance should be introduced.


1. More competitive server (top raid force will be required to invest more time/effort to continue getting as much loot as they currently do).

More time required yes. Players will have to devote ridiculous hours tracking and waiting. More competitive, absolutely not, due to the average players/guilds inability or unwillingness to devote said hours.


2. Raid targets will die with less average people present each time (since there won't be a globally known, static timer associated with any raid target any longer). This will make the pve encounters and whatever pvp contesting occurs for pve encounters more skill (and less zerg) based.
Due to technology in the 21st century, the batphone will summon the same people that raid on any other day at a moments notice.


3. PVP will be more spontaneous (ie less predictable) since 95% of lvl 60 pvp occurs around raid bosses. Since bosses will be spawning less predictably (ie more spontaneously), the PVP will be less forced/staged and occur both more continuously and more spontaneously.
Due to the randomness, the players tracking said mobs (see response 1) will have a sizable head start, thus the opportunity for pvp is diminished.


4. Guilds will be rewarded more for their ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly execute a boss as opposed to setting up raid times one week in advance for their entire guild to prepare and recruit for. More people will still translate into more power (don't worry Nihilum), but there will be less of a double/triple/quadruple incentive to stack players for pve and pvp strategy (since timers will not be predictable down to the second).

Completely illogical surmising as this only hurts the average player, further separating the power of uber guilds from normal guilds as neither the neckbeard nor the average player enjoys sitting around tracking.


5. A more competitive server will attract more players and more guilds, and take some power away from the "zerg everything" approach, allowing guilds to care about more than just pure size/numbers. Again, greater emphasis will be placed on a guild or group's ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly/cleanly execute as opposed to brute-forcing an encounter they have a timer of a week in advance.

The logic leading to the conclusion that any of the above will result in a more competitive server has been obliterated.

5 is not really a point but rather a self affirmation of flawed logic.


6. Implementation of variance will make Nihilum cry more than they do now just at the prospect of variance.

Aha, the real motive is unveiled.

[Drakaris]

Aha, the real motive is unveiled.

+1

[mikemandella]

More time required yes. Players will have to devote ridiculous hours tracking and waiting. More competitive, absolutely not, due to the average players/guilds inability or unwillingness to devote said hours.


It's good to see some meaningful discussion on this topic. I think it's too easy for us to look at variance through a "blue" lens though.

Your first point. "competition" and it just being a time sync. In a zone like KC.. I 100percent agree, it will be just logging alt after alt. and a tracking fest.

However, take a zone like VP. A solid gank crew knows all the hiding places. You aren't just going to levitate a ranger to some unknown spot and ride it out. This means when a mob is within the spawn window. There will be PVP. Each guild will be forced to put a crew there... Please for the sake of science someone explain that away.

- Oppressor

[Kergan]

1. More competitive server (top raid force will be required to invest more time/effort to continue getting as much loot as they currently do).


This is the classic strategy of people asking for variance and it's getting old. You have yet to describe with any reasonable detail how making the top guild put in more effort makes this server more competitive. The top guild already puts in the most effort, that is why they are the top guild. You also conveniently leave out it will require the guilds currently putting in the least effort to put in significantly more effort. Which is more likely to happen, the guild already committed to putting in the most effort puts in more and keeps on rolling, or the guilds already proven to put in less effort somehow start putting in a bunch more to compete?


2. Raid targets will die with less average people present each time (since there won't be a globally known, static timer associated with any raid target any longer). This will make the pve encounters and whatever pvp contesting occurs for pve encounters more skill (and less zerg) based.


Nearly every raid target in this expansion can be killed with three groups. It's consistently done with double or triple that (even when Azrael was doing it). Raids in Kunark have not and never will be a challenge and using that as a pro-variance argument shows lack of understanding of the end game. Variance or no variance, targets will be zerged, if you're defining zerging as killing a target with significantly more people than what the minimum required force is.



3. PVP will be more spontaneous (ie less predictable) since 95% of lvl 60 pvp occurs around raid bosses. Since bosses will be spawning less predictably (ie more spontaneously), the PVP will be less forced/staged and occur both more continuously and more spontaneously.


95% of PVP does not occur around raid bosses. In fact right now 0% of level 60 PVP occurs around raid bosses. Also, spontaneous PVP over a raid target heavily favors the larger guild as no matter what people say EQ PVP is more about numbers than skill when it comes to large scale battles. Think about this for a moment. VS pops, nobody in zone. A trackbot for the smaller guild notices it is up and sends out the batphone. People from the larger guild notice a spike in how many small guild players are online.

It isn't hard to find where people are going. Who is going to kill that mob 99.99% of the time? The guild that can batphone 30-60 people into the game within 10 minutes, or the guild that needs 90% of their active members to login to kill a raid target? The smaller force gets wiped out and the raid target is killed by the larger force.


4. Guilds will be rewarded more for their ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly execute a boss as opposed to setting up raid times one week in advance for their entire guild to prepare and recruit for. More people will still translate into more power (don't worry Nihilum), but there will be less of a double/triple/quadruple incentive to stack players for pve and pvp strategy (since timers will not be predictable down to the second).


Variance adds the need for additional players not the other way around. Implementing variance will lead Nihilum to recruit MORE people and become larger. People act like Nihilum has 50 people logging in on Saturday repop day and nobody around the rest of the week. We have 40+ showing up nightly for planar gear clears bro. There has not been a night in the last month where we don't have a raid force online capable of killing any target in the game.


5. A more competitive server will attract more players and more guilds, and take some power away from the "zerg everything" approach, allowing guilds to care about more than just pure size/numbers. Again, greater emphasis will be placed on a guild or group's ability to detect, mobilize, and quickly/cleanly execute as opposed to brute-forcing an encounter they have a timer of a week in advance.


Another argument based on zero facts. EQ raiding is about brute force. We haven't even hit the zerg phase of raiding yet, 50 becomes the minimum size raid force in Velious. People who've played this game at the high end know this. There is a reason 95% of people interesting in raiding app to Nihilum the second they meet the minimum requirements - because they know Nihilum is the only guild who will even have a chance to kill significant raid targets on a consistent basis in Velious. Variance only furthers the advantage of greater numbers and therefor furthers Nihilum's edge on the competition. This will lead to even more recruits and greater size. What you're proposing will quite literally have the opposite effect of what you're trying to achieve with it.



6. Implementation of variance will make Nihilum cry more than they do now just at the prospect of variance.

It took all the way to #6 for you to present the only argument that matters to the pro variance crowd - to piss off the people on the server you don't like. This is exactly why it's never been implemented, because the staff sees through the bullshit.