Love Double Standards

[Thulack]

Ok for Class C to fuck each other over and over again and then each other say "we forgive them" and no one gets suspended or locked out but a Class R guild makes a honest mistake all the Class R guilds show support and yet the suspension still stands. You guys are a piece of work. /smh

[Skittlez]

You love dick

[SyanideGas]

Ok for Class C to fuck each other over and over again and then each other say "we forgive them" and no one gets suspended or locked out but a Class R guild makes a honest mistake all the Class R guilds show support and yet the suspension still stands. You guys are a piece of work. /smh

Basically

[Tiggles]

You love dick

[Jaxon]

I feel like the existing topics in R&F don't adequately explore this issue.

[sanforce]

Class R guilds can be suspended? I support this.

[Thulack]

I feel like the existing topics in R&F don't adequately explore this issue.

Really has nothing to do with Fay other day. Has to do with AG on trak and the shitshow that is Class C raiding over the last 3 months. It's funny for as much as TMO and IB wanted competition that they have rotations set up between themselves. Guess they couldnt handle all the Competition themselves.

[sanforce]

It's funny for as much as TMO and IB wanted competition that they have rotations set up between themselves. Guess they couldnt handle all the Competition themselves.

annnnnd which rotations are you talking about between TMO and IB? I'm pretty sure the only time these guilds hand-over a mob is when they royally fuck up the engage, and have no choice but to let the other guild have it. but you probably know best...

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

-TMO and IB?
I'm pretty sure the only time these guilds hand-over a mob is when they royally fuck up the engage, and have no choice but to let the other guild have it.
Truth

[xexbis0]

You're just gonna get ganged up on in here by the TMO Forum PR police. Fact is, someone messed with TMO and look what happens. Disciplinary punishment across the board for multiple guilds to save face. If TMO had such a clear conscience then why did they tag the "unguilded" puller? I am also pondering how this was the "unguilded puller"'s dragon as I don't remember logs showing a raid force of pug unguilded players in the zone. Terrible precedent and anyone with half a brain can see what's really going on here.

[Lazie]

You're just gonna get ganged up on in here by the TMO Forum PR police. Fact is, someone messed with TMO and look what happens. Disciplinary punishment across the board for multiple guilds to save face. If TMO had such a clear conscience then why did they tag the "unguilded" puller? I am also pondering how this was the "unguilded puller"'s dragon as I don't remember logs showing a raid force of pug unguilded players in the zone. Terrible precedent and anyone with half a brain can see what's really going on here.

What is going on here REALLY ? For those of us with half a brain. I was in vent most of the day when trackers were coming and going there was no "Master plan" to screw anyone over.

[Frieza_Prexus]

You're just gonna get ganged up on in here by the TMO Forum PR police. Fact is, someone messed with TMO and look what happens. Disciplinary punishment across the board for multiple guilds to save face. If TMO had such a clear conscience then why did they tag the "unguilded" puller? I am also pondering how this was the "unguilded puller"'s dragon as I don't remember logs showing a raid force of pug unguilded players in the zone. Terrible precedent and anyone with half a brain can see what's really going on here.


The unguilded puller has been used before without incident. IB also had an unguilded puller. Golden was not guilded simply because it's a pain in the ass to find an officer for a bard who is only used for fay and sev who is bound at the TD pots via locket. TMO has so many alts that it can be hard to find an actual officer at times. Especially for Faydedar. I have a 56 wizard I use for raids who was unguilded for a while because it was a pain in my ass to find an officer.

It's a complete red herring to say that there was no pick up raid forming; there's no need for a PUG. Golden is a TMO member even if that character wasn't tagged. It was a TMO operation through and through, and the guild was assembling in good faith for the kill. Certainly you're not suggesting that we used an untagged puller to circumvent the rules. We're many things, but unaware of the rules we are not. It would be monumentally stupid to try and get around the rules like that. It's not about conscience, it's about convenience. An officer was present, so the bard was tagged.

Just about every Fay, Naggy, and Vox raid with officers present sees a new character join the guild. Please explain to me what you think we did that's so shady, and why it's wrong.

[slappytwotoes]

Don't really see a double standard here. Both guilds got banned.

Title irrelevant unless IB's is reversed.

For the record, I doubt TMO was attempting some new diabolical pull tactic...
Hanlon's Razor: 'Do not attribute to Malice what can be attributed to Incompetence.' (or in this case, forgetfulness)

[xexbis0]

You bring the Forum PR Police out of hiding. (5)

Xasten, you still didn't address why/how he was tagged, which is basically the entire premise of my point. It looks shadier to tag him than leave him unguilded. Lots of words with failure to answer the most important question mark = TMOMO.

[sanforce]

You bring the Forum PR Police out of hiding. (5)

Xasten, you still didn't address why/how he was tagged, which is basically the entire premise of my point. It looks shadier to tag him than leave him unguilded. Lots of words with failure to answer the most important question mark = TMOMO.

It has already been stated by the GMs that it doesn't matter if the puller is not guilded, it is still that persons mob. So who really cares that it "looks shadier to tag him". The intent was not to have a shady untagged puller, the intent was to pull the mob for TMO. Instead, he pulled the mob, and got IB suspended (SUPER VICTORY FOR TMO /CHEER).

[xexbis0]

It has already been stated by the GMs that it doesn't matter if the puller is not guilded, it is still that persons mob. So who really cares that it "looks shadier to tag him". The intent was not to have a shady untagged puller, the intent was to pull the mob for TMO. Instead, he pulled the mob, and got IB suspended (SUPER VICTORY FOR TMO /CHEER).

Another non-answer. Could you people possibly prove my points any more?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Xasten, you still didn't address why/how he was tagged, which is basically the entire premise of my point. It looks shadier to tag him than leave him unguilded. Lots of words with failure to answer the most important question mark = TMOMO.

The how is this:

[Sat May 24 22:26:59 2014] Your target is immune to changes in its run speed.
[Sat May 24 22:26:59 2014] Faydedar engages Golden!
...
[Sat May 24 22:31:35 2014] You told lookin, 'Officer?'
[Sat May 24 22:31:44 2014] Lookin is an officer of The Mystical Order.
[Sat May 24 22:31:50 2014] You told lookin, 'Inivte *Flippie)'
...
[Sat May 24 22:33:00 2014] You have joined The Mystical Order.
[Sat May 24 22:33:00 2014] You are now a regular member of the guild.

The why is because he was left untagged out of convenience or laziness (pick one), and he took a tag because he needed one. Communication, convenience, guild pride, or whatever. The tag was available, and he took it. Explain to me how having a tag versus not having one changes the outcome of the Fay kill in any way. Even if tagging him was somehow shady, it was not IB or anyone else's call to make to take the situation into their own hands. The GM's have said repeatedly to petition in situations like this. There is no scenario where tagging or leaving him untagged would have made a difference.

What you're failing to address is why this was unethical or shady. My wizard Xastex was tagged on a raid, my rogue Eyashusa was tagged on a Vox raid, and my monk Sakkra was tagged on a Naggy raid. Was this unethical? These characters were untagged because it's a pain in the ass sometimes to find an officer. Alts that were previously tagged were guildless after Zeelot disbanded the guild. Explain to me how I've not addressed your point.

And please drop the forum police schtick.

[Hitpoint]

You bring the Forum PR Police out of hiding. (5)

Xasten, you still didn't address why/how he was tagged, which is basically the entire premise of my point. It looks shadier to tag him than leave him unguilded. Lots of words with failure to answer the most important question mark = TMOMO.

He got tagged when an officer entered the zone, out of convenience. There wasn't one before then.

[xexbis0]

The how is this:



The why is because he was left untagged out of convenience or laziness (pick one), and he took a tag because he needed one. Communication, convenience, guild pride, or whatever. The tag was available, and he took it. Explain to me how having a tag versus not having one changes the outcome of the Fay kill in any way. Even if tagging him was somehow shady, it was not IB or anyone else's call to make to take the situation into their own hands. The GM's have said repeatedly to petition in situations like this. There is no scenario where tagging or leaving him untagged would have made a difference.

What you're failing to address is why this was unethical or shady. My wizard Xastex was tagged on a raid, my rogue Eyashusa was tagged on a Vox raid, and my monk Sakkra was tagged on a Naggy raid. Was this unethical? These characters were untagged because it's a pain in the ass sometimes to find an officer. Alts that were previously tagged were guildless after Zeelot disbanded the guild. Explain to me how I've not addressed your point.

And please drop the forum police schtick.

Forum Officer Xastex:

Surely you can see the precedent this sets. Guilds that can't field trackers can now hire trackers. If we have un-guilded trackers acting as mercenaries to the highest bidder, I wonder which guild that benefits most?

Why would any of us have reason to believe you would treat this new precedent with integrity?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Guilds that can't field trackers can now hire trackers. If we have un-guilded trackers acting as mercenaries to the highest bidder, I wonder which guild that benefits most?

It benefits them all equally. No guild may have more than two trackers, and joint raid forces are retroactively assumed to have pooled their trackers. I explained this this another post recently:

It's more of a headache to sort out than it is a loophole. Selling, giving, awarding, FTE to a raid that also had two representatives present will retroactively make them exceed the limit when the two forces merge. Three FTE spammers will be present in a single raid. Thus, a violation.

Pain in the ass to manage, yes. But not a loophole.

Why would any of us have reason to believe you would treat this new precedent with integrity?

Because we already have. Zeelot set the precedent for hiring trackers about a year ago. Very little has been done with it since for a very large number of reasons. (Delay, batphone security, etc.)

I notice you've switched the tone from saying this is shady to saying that it's bad policy prone to abuse. I also notice you've failed to address the questions I posed back at you. For someone who rails against evading the question, you sure seem to do it a lot.

[Lazie]

Forum Officer Xastex:

Surely you can see the precedent this sets. Guilds that can't field trackers can now hire trackers. If we have un-guilded trackers acting as mercenaries to the highest bidder, I wonder which guild that benefits most?

Why would any of us have reason to believe you would treat this new precedent with integrity?

How about you stop smoking the good stuff and lose the paranoia ?

[Lazie]

There is also the issue of loot. Hiring a "mercenary" to pull a raid mob when say Fay drops 2 water dragon shields would basically mean all he has to say is "TMO killed my dragon where is my loot ?". There is no benefit in the bigger picture to it.

[Wrench]

Golden was not guilded simply because it's a pain in the ass to find an officer for a bard who is only used for fay and sev who is bound at the TD pots via locket

this made me laugh

[JayN]

IB scum of the server most toxic players pras sirken and gm staff, they left to destroy EQ mac with their mission accomplished theyve headed back to p99, I can only hope the staff sees them for what they truly are nothing more then troll trash Myg0t wannabes and ban them opnce and for all before they take down p99 like the did to poor lil eq mac

[sulpher01]

Ok for Class C to fuck each other over and over again and then each other say "we forgive them" and no one gets suspended or locked out but a Class R guild makes a honest mistake all the Class R guilds show support and yet the suspension still stands. You guys are a piece of work. /smh

You guys have to admit this server is hilariously entertaining because of this shit though.. (from an outside perspective)

[sanforce]

You guys have to admit this server is hilariously entertaining because of this shit though.. (from an outside perspective)

I agree. I haven't played EQ in 2 months or so, decided to check the forums today, and I happily found the drama gems continuing. pras p1999

[Rellapse40]

IB scum of the server most toxic players pras sirken and gm staff, they left to destroy EQ mac with their mission accomplished theyve headed back to p99, I can only hope the staff sees them for what they truly are nothing more then troll trash Myg0t wannabes and ban them opnce and for all before they take down p99 like the did to poor lil eq mac

***** is about to have a seizure from being so mad

[Tasslehofp99]

rofl this thread is ridiculous

[Argh]

Nobody is going to use unguilded trackers, it provides absolutely zero benefit with the tracker limit in place.

[Mezzmur]

this made me laugh

PRAS TMO LocketQuest 2011 and mah firepot melee.

So much better with 3 years of kunark, got my monies worth.

[Mezzmur]

Nobody is going to use unguilded trackers, it provides absolutely zero benefit with the tracker limit in place.

I'd totally pay 10-20k for an FTE for someone to take my place. 1-2 mobs was fun, but now that all world spawns are jav socks, it's fucking terrible.

[Pint]

You're just gonna get ganged up on in here by the TMO Forum PR police.

well second post implies that he likes dick so maybe he's come to the right place