Dumbest Rule EVER

[Bben]

Can't kill a raid mob if it pops while your in zone, what kinda classic EQ is this, some bullshit if you ask me......worst classic server ever!

Don't remember live having that rule, its not even real everquest with that rule.....

Can you make a new server, that is actually classic? jesus

[Bben]

might as well call the server World of Warcraft with this baby rules

[Exmo]

the kind that used to have guilds camping full raid forces at each spawn and has players with way more 60s and accounts than anyone ever did on live during Kunark?

[Bben]

hey, its a man's world, if you can't hang go clean your bleeding vagina

[zanderklocke]

So who was up for the Maestro Lord Bob killed per the class R rotation?

[Bben]

We even all left the zone, came back, and than killed it......so we even followed your rule.....and fuck rotations, that worse than the poping while in zone rule....

[Tecmos Deception]

worst classic server ever!

GTFO

[Mac Drettj]

sounds like another case of rotation

[SyanideGas]

We even all left the zone, came back, and than killed it......so we even followed your rule.....and fuck rotations, that worse than the poping while in zone rule....

Go Class C, problem solved.

[Bben]

EQ = racing for mobs, top guild wins, not lets all sit in line and suck each other off while we wait our turn

[Tecmos Deception]

EQ = racing for mobs, top guild wins, not lets all sit in line and suck each other off while we wait our turn

Then GTFO!

[daasgoot]

lets all sit in line and suck each other off

faggot

[Breaken]

Doljonijarnimorinar had more than two people in Hate when Maestro spawned. instead of clearing that or passing on the spawn

It sounds like you did not leave the zone, but I was not there. Just an observation.

[Frieza_Prexus]

EQ = racing for mobs, top guild wins, not lets all sit in line and suck each other off while we wait our turn

Multiple servers had player enforced agreements, and on rare occasions GM's would even enforce them, albeit under the table.

Class R is a strong reflection of a very classic circumstance. I suggest you try Class C raiding if R isn't butch enough for your tastes.

[Tecmos Deception]

Dolj should roll red. They sound way too badass to play on blue!

[Bben]

and ya, we did leave the zone, and divinity wiped......so meastro was fair game according to your rules......

[Breaken]

Then why, in your first post, are you complaining about the rule of having more than 2 people in the zone?

[Bben]

cause we still got raid suspended even though we follow it, shouldn't be a rule to begin with...

[-Catherin-]

Lord Bob, FTEing without logic or fairness.

Maybe you should rethink that policy since its working out so bad for you. That's the second time you guys have killed Maestro only because you broke the rules right? As well as being the only mob you have successfully killed at all?

Don't worry, you will kill something legitimately someday. Try Crushbone.

[Bben]

ya, it only took Taken 3 years to kill a raid target.....gratz on finally getting there, took us 2 weeks.....ha, and we followed the rule, we left the zone....came back....divinity wiped....

[Cecily]

Go Class C, problem solved.

Lol BDA, you...

[Nightbear]

Dolj should roll red. They sound way too badass to play on blue!

[Frieza_Prexus]

Getting raid suspended over Maestro is like armed robbery over a Subway card with 3 stamps left until you get a free sandwich.

[Flamewraith]

Lord bob constantly trying this aggressive raiding thing, always fails, always mad. History repeats itself, the fact that you can't see it makes you blind.

[Cecily]

The majority of the server is complacent with waiting for bi-monthly pixel rations. Thank goodness someone is trying.

[khanable]

Lord bob's raid history on P99:

Maestro 1: KS'd when they didn't have FTE, ninja looted
Maestro 2: Violated server rules

Good work guys.

[EQmerch]

Loot Gained: None

[Yinikren]

Bob guild, entertaining the server with their retarded fucking logic since '13

[Cecily]

You can't start from scratch and be immediately successful with anything. This guild has screwed up and will screw up in the future. Doesn't change the fact that each screw up is a learning experience that teaches them boundaries of the rule set and just how far they can push the rules to legally walk over the rest of Class R.

[Bben]

Thanks Cecily, TMO only other guild i like, rest like to wait for TMO's scraps like dogs....thats not me, i aint sitting begging for chance at mobs.....

[arsenalpow]

Please show me the rule that says if you leave the zone after the mob spawns you're ok to engage it. I'll make it easy for you, that rule doesn't exist. You forfeit all rights to the mob if you're raiding while it spawns. You can have two people tracking that mob and each raid target has a pre-determined spot where you can wait in force if you'd like. For plane of hate I believe it's been established that you can't be in the zone period. For something like VS or Trak waiting at the zoneline has been deemed acceptable.

Also, please keep mocking class R. We've ruined this game by getting fucking EIGHT!! guilds working together to make the raid scene less nauseating. We've handled every class issue internally, and the A-Team got epics. It's better than being in class C(oinflip) waiting for 16 hours at every VP dragon spam clicking target/jav macros.

[Bben]

BDA and Taken couldn't hang with TMO, so GM's had to make rules to help them

[Bben]

Ya other guilds only working together, cause without it, they will never get a mob dead

[Breaken]

I don't see Doljonijarnimorinar going after Class C mobs...

[Bben]

EQ is suppose to be competition, not a list of who's turn it is......

[Breaken]

So why are you not competing with Class C?

[Bben]

Ya havn't gone for class C mobs yet, we just made guild 2 weeks ago and are farther along than guilds that have been around for years.....lol ......

[Yinikren]

I don't see them going after *any* mobs... they always seem to get suspended before they finish the job and win lewts.

[Cecily]

So why are you not competing with Class C?

Because we are much much bigger than them and it wouldn't be fair you carebears.

[Flamewraith]

All this anger and big talk for a guild that killed 1 (read one) miniboss and ate a suspension. You won't be killing ANYTHING for a week. No matter how big you talk you will not receive ONE item in loot for a whole week.

[Bben]

oh nooo, no raid for a week, let me go kill myself.....haha, get a life, like i give a shit about this game, only came back to mess with bigger guilds.....and looks like i win

[Yinikren]

All this anger and big talk for a guild that killed 1 (read one) miniboss and ate a suspension. You won't be killing ANYTHING for a week. No matter how big you talk you will not receive ONE item in loot for a whole week.

It's kinda cute because, if you think about it, they've plagued the server with their incompetence for almost half a year now all together, and have nothing to show of it. Not even any Maestro bard weps.....

[Flamewraith]

oh nooo, no raid for a week, let me go kill myself.....haha, get a life, like i give a shit about this game, only came back to mess with bigger guilds.....and looks like i win

How did you win? You accomplished nothing. Also, you made like seven comments in 5 mins, you obviously care. You didn't make waves, you didn't even make a ripple.

[Bben]

ya, your right, i better just join bda or taken so i can wait weeks for our turn......or indignation where i can raid Lower Guk for the next few months......lol

[Hitpoint]

I like that Lord Bob tries.

[Tecmos Deception]

I bet either guild would LOVE to have you :rolleyes:

But for real, if you wanna talk shit and "compete" for pixels, you would fit right in on red.

[khanable]

Lord Bob gave us the best quote of 2014 so far:
http://i.imgur.com/hkDGhY4.png

And spawned this:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1306433&postcount=346
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1306434&postcount=347

They did accomplish something

[zanderklocke]

This guy is a troll; people should just stop responding and giving him attention in this thread.

[Wookiewoowoo]

Can't kill a raid mob if it pops while your in zone, what kinda classic EQ is this, some bullshit if you ask me......worst classic server ever!

Don't remember live having that rule, its not even real everquest with that rule.....

Can you make a new server, that is actually classic? jesus

It is BS. I laughed when I saw the raiding rules and then I sadly smirked. Yes guilds back then made agreements with each other and/or made a schedule.
Mostly because they needed 30-40 people and to get 30-40 people they have to wait till all those people can play. Punishable by GM for breaking player made agreements? NEVER EVER heard of it.

As I was in a guild that didn't look at forums to find a schedule. We just killed whatever was up that we could handle when we had the proper amount of players on.
Yes some guilds hated us with passion but no gm's ever talked to us yet alone punish us in any form. It may sound dickish but why should I have to wait in line and play a portion of the game just because other people are not ready.

[Obrae]

Please show me the rule that says if you leave the zone after the mob spawns you're ok to engage it. I'll make it easy for you, that rule doesn't exist. You forfeit all rights to the mob if you're raiding while it spawns. You can have two people tracking that mob and each raid target has a pre-determined spot where you can wait in force if you'd like. For plane of hate I believe it's been established that you can't be in the zone period. For something like VS or Trak waiting at the zoneline has been deemed acceptable.

Also, please keep mocking class R. We've ruined this game by getting fucking EIGHT!! guilds working together to make the raid scene less nauseating. We've handled every class issue internally, and the A-Team got epics. It's better than being in class C(oinflip) waiting for 16 hours at every VP dragon spam clicking target/jav macros.

Not really following all this drama, not playing enough anymore. So coming as a neutral reader of this thread, i have a question, what makes:

Having a raid force waiting outside plane - good
Having a raid force gate out of plane and come back in - bad

now is it actually what happened ? i don't know but it seems to me it should be allowed. Maybe it's because it can't be verified by logs ? I am just curious here.

[jpetrick]

This guy is a troll; people should just stop responding and giving him attention in this thread.

I don't post in RnF unless it pertains to Lord Bob, I was going to say just this. We've seen this song and dance before people.

[Fountree]

All this anger and big talk for a guild that killed 1 (read one) miniboss and ate a suspension. You won't be killing ANYTHING for a week. No matter how big you talk you will not receive ONE item in loot for a whole week.

LOLOL. Pixel caring level off the charts. This is about classic EQ man not your dreams about creating an E-Z loot vending machine.

[Cecily]

And it was glorious the first time, WB friends.

[Bben]

really? cause this rule wasn't here last time we had lord bob owning your mobs......so if you mean you seen us owning before, ya your right......

Indignation....haha.....don't make me laugh.....let me know when you guys actually do some raids

[Fountree]

I don't post in RnF unless it pertains to Lord Bob, I was going to say just this. We've seen this song and dance before people.

This man sounds like he needs to hit the movie theater for a bit a cool off. Senior citizen discount card should help you afford it

[Frieza_Prexus]

It may sound dickish but why should I have to wait in line and play a portion of the game just because other people are not ready.

Because the people running the server have stated their intention that casual and hardcore raiding should both be viable options on this server. They have put this system in place to achieve that end. That's reason enough.

[arsenalpow]

Not really following all this drama, not playing enough anymore. So coming as a neutral reader of this thread, i have a question, what makes:

Having a raid force waiting outside plane - good
Having a raid force gate out of plane and come back in - bad

now is it actually what happened ? i don't know but it seems to me it should be allowed. Maybe it's because it can't be verified by logs ? I am just curious here.

It's not my rule, it's the staff rule. It's definitely advantageous being in the zone beforehand already broken in.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

RED99 WANTS YOU! REROLL TODAY AND LEAVE THE RULES BEHIND! YOU WANT A TARGET YOU TAKE IT...KILL ENEMY PLAYERS, TRAIN THEM, KS, NINJA LOOT!!! IT'S ALL LEGAL!

[Baldwinning]

Getting raid suspended over Maestro is like armed robbery over a Subway card with 3 stamps left until you get a free sandwich.

They don't have those anymore.

[Flamewraith]

LOLOL. Pixel caring level off the charts. This is about classic EQ man not your dreams about creating an E-Z loot vending machine.

Wut? I was talking a bout how nothing is coming from their big talk? Reading comprehension muh man.

[Detoxx]

This man sounds like he needs to hit the movie theater for a bit a cool off. Senior citizen discount card should help you afford it

Get off your soapbox fountree. If you do get a kill Lord Bob, be sure to not let this guy hold any MQ/loot for ya...

[Lazie]

Lol BDA, you...

This made me laugh seriously. You are on a roll today.

[Fountree]

Because the people running the server have stated their intention that casual and hardcore raiding should both be viable options on this server. They have put this system in place to achieve that end. That's reason enough.

Xasten's ideal server:

"Nah, honey, I think I'm going to log on and kill some plane of hate with my bros this morning, can't make brunch, I'm having so much fun with this game lately. Yeah, love you too. Bye. click."

[Logs on]

[Clears hate]

"Oh a cool named mob has spawned, lets try it."

[Guild fully dies]

[zone resets, empty]

[CRs and guild Kills it's boss mob, great sense of accomplishment on a tough won fight]

"Wow, I'm having so much fun playing my favorite video game and not hurting anyone."

****WABAM! ARCANE UNCLASSIC RULES INC BITCHES!***

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/code-of-hammurabi-1.jpg

[Inc hate tells from other guilds and strangers]

Man logs off.

[Flamewraith]

So much mad. So much bad.

[Juevento]

What the fuck does that even mean?

[Flamewraith]

What the fuck does that even mean?

Was aimed at fountree.

[bktroost]

Lord Bob gave us the best quote of 2014 so far:
http://i.imgur.com/hkDGhY4.png

And spawned this:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1306433&postcount=346
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1306434&postcount=347

They did accomplish something

WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN THESE?!

Oh how I lol and keep on loling.

[Tongpow]

fuck yeah, doljo thread.

[Tecmos Deception]

Xasten's ideal server:

"Nah, honey, I think I'm going to log on and kill some plane of hate with my bros this morning, can't make brunch, I'm having so much fun with this game lately. Yeah, love you too. Bye. click."

[Logs on]

[Clears hate]

"Oh a cool named mob has spawned, lets try it."

[Guild fully dies]

[zone resets, empty]

[CRs and guild Kills it's boss mob, great sense of accomplishment on a tough won fight]

"Wow, I'm having so much fun playing my favorite video game and not hurting anyone."

****WABAM! ARCANE UNCLASSIC RULES INC BITCHES!***

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/code-of-hammurabi-1.jpg

[Inc hate tells from other guilds and strangers]

Man logs off.

Wow.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wow.

[Juevento]

Was aimed at fountree.

Yeah same here... didn't want to quote the idiot though.

[Tiggles]

Wow.

Wow.

[Kekephee]

EQ = racing for mobs, top guild wins, not lets all sit in line and suck each other off while we wait our turn

So go class C

[Bben]

fountree had ever right to sell that MQ, was during TMO's guild break up , everyone thought TMO was done.....

not his fault guild broke from RMT's , glad they came back though , nice to have a to least 1 guild other guild that isn't carebear

[HeallunRumblebelly]

fountree had ever right to sell that MQ, was during TMO's guild break up , everyone thought TMO was done.....

not his fault guild broke from RMT's , glad they came back though , nice to have a to least 1 guild other guild that isn't carebear

He sold it after reformation.

[Kekephee]

Ya havn't gone for class C mobs yet, we just made guild 2 weeks ago and are farther along than guilds that have been around for years.....lol ......

No you're not. You've killed two maestros. The fact that both of those maestros were illegitimate kills aside, assuming we were playing on a server where "whichever nerd zerg gets there first gets the loot" you should not be claiming to be superior to other guilds over two maestros

[Fountree]

He sold it after reformation.

To be clear, I was unguilded still, and yes to me that TMO was done and over after the treatment of several close friends and members most of whom have quit and/or joined IB.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

[Bben]

how do you get 2 meastros? we only killed him once.....

and not saying we are superior, just saying you guys are carebear fags who needs a gay rule just to get kills cause you can't compete

[HeallunRumblebelly]

To be clear, I was unguilded still, and yes to me that TMO was done and over after the treatment of several close friends and members most of whom have quit and/or joined IB.

What exactly happened with you joining IB btw, why didn't that work out?

[Kekephee]

how do you get 2 meastros? we only killed him once.....

and not saying we are superior, just saying you guys are carebear fags who needs a gay rule just to get kills cause you can't compete



we just made guild 2 weeks ago and are farther along than guilds that have been around for years.....lol ......



Sounds like you're claiming superiority to me.

[Fountree]

What exactly happened with you joining IB btw, why didn't that work out?

I'm apparently a terrible player.

Also burnt a ton of bridges fighting against them over the year, called people out personally in that guild after a ton of them were deleveled to 54, after their officer ninja looted a server first CT epic piece, after them training us purposely, lotta other shenanigans over a long period of time.

[Fountree]

years*

[Cecily]

No you're not. You've killed two maestros. The fact that both of those maestros were illegitimate kills aside, assuming we were playing on a server where "whichever nerd zerg gets there first gets the loot" you should not be claiming to be superior to other guilds over two maestros

That's more than BDA has killed in a competitive environment.

[Kekephee]

That's more than BDA has killed in a competitive environment.


You do realize there are FFA mobs in the rotation, right? And what FFA means?


Mob spawns, multiple guilds race for it, you could even say... they compete


YEEHEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEE

[Hyjal]

"That's more than BDA has killed in a competitive environment."


Haha

[Kekephee]

BUT IT'S NOT COMPETITION IF YOUR GUILD CAN'T SIT ON THE SPAWN POINT FOR A WEEK RIGHT?????????????? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHT?????? ???????????????????????????????????????????

[Juevento]

That's more than BDA has killed in a competitive environment.

I know you are only trolling... but sometimes I think you might actually be dense.

For what its worth, you don't have to go the Tiggles route.

[Bben]

That's more than BDA has killed in a competitive environment.

hahahahaha

[arsenalpow]

how do you get 2 meastros? we only killed him once...

http://media.giphy.com/media/4Dy1Btpt0qUZA/giphy.gif

[Hyjal]

For what its worth. Its completely true.

[Jaxon]

Cecily, I offer therapy sessions at 2k an hour, 1 hour minimum.

You don't have to handle the shame of being wrong alone.

[Kekephee]

I know you are only trolling... but sometimes I think you might actually be dense.

For what its worth, you don't have to go the Tiggles route.

She's definitely just trolling, but I responded anyway because there are actually people dumb enough to believe the hype about rotation having no competition and if one little boy or girl can read what I wrote and understand that you don't have to race for EVERY mob to be competitive, I will have done my job

[Hyjal]

"there are actually people dumb enough to believe the hype about rotation having no competition and if one little boy or girl can read what I wrote and understand that you don't have to race for EVERY mob to be competitive, I will have done my job"


I'm sorry, but racing against time (what is it 6 hours?) doesn't count as competition.

[Juevento]

Let's not make the mistake of thinking this server has competition...

You want competition for raid bosses, go to red. You want to stand in line for loot, you play here.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Let's not make the mistake of thinking this server has competition...

You want competition for raid bosses, go to red. You want to stand in line for loot, you play here.

[Splorf22]

Let's not make the mistake of thinking this server has competition...

You want competition for raid bosses, go to red. You want to stand in line for loot, you play here.

For sure. Even the Class C guilds are basically standing at the FTE jav spam RNG vending machine.

I think Velious will change things though.

[Kekephee]

"there are actually people dumb enough to believe the hype about rotation having no competition and if one little boy or girl can read what I wrote and understand that you don't have to race for EVERY mob to be competitive, I will have done my job"


I'm sorry, but racing against time (what is it 6 hours?) doesn't count as competition.

That's true, but racing against other guilds does. So I guess what we have here is a rotation that enables all guilds to compete for the majority of loot, but has set aside a minority of loot to be distributed evenly amongst any who are capable of getting it. Almost like... almost like we're playing an emulator (read: DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT'S NOT REAL) for a game we used to love, and the point is, get this, for everybody to enjoy the game again rather than just 20 horrible nerds who don't have jobs and want to take everything for themselves just to spite everyone else

[justin2090]

how do you get 2 meastros? we only killed him once.....

and not saying we are superior, just saying you guys are carebear fags who needs a gay rule just to get kills cause you can't compete

I don't understand your logic. If the rules weren't in place Doljo wouldn't even have a chance at seeing a raid mob let alone attempt one. TMO/IB would clean house with a naggy/vox to BDA every now and then. Doljo wouldn't even be a guild w/o the current rule set.

And that's a bingo.

[Kekephee]

I don't understand your logic. If the rules weren't in place Doljo wouldn't even have a chance at seeing a raid mob let alone attempt one. TMO/IB would clean house with a naggy/vox to BDA every now and then. Doljo wouldn't even be a guild w/o the current rule set.

And that's a bingo.

No dude, you've got it all wrong. They complain about how right TMO is, then when their guild chokes and dies on stolen maestro bard weapons they all get into TMO because TMO likes their attitude

[BurgyK]

How quickly people forget the shitshow that was raiding for anyone not in the top tier guild 1 year or so ago...
That or they weren't around for it and have no clue how fucking stupid they seem

[Kekephee]

How quickly people forget the shitshow that was raiding for anyone not in the top tier guild 1 year or so ago...
That or they weren't around for it and have no clue how fucking stupid they seem

Thread finished, nothing left to say


Gonna go deposit my paycheck from the job that keeps me unable to sit on Trakanon's spawn point running javelin-chucking scripts for a week aka losing my competitive edge

[Bben]

weren't around for it? we been here since before kunark, Dozekar 4 life......and i was in TMO for about a year, and loved taking all the mobs from other guilds.....loved every second of it....

[Sirken]

How quickly people forget the shitshow that was raiding for anyone not in the top tier guild ~4 months ago...
That or they weren't around for it and have no clue how fucking stupid they seem

FTFY

[drktmplr12]

http://content.vcommerce.com/products/184/47566184/fullsize.jpg

[Ciroco]

weren't around for it? we been here since before kunark, Dozekar 4 life......and i was in TMO for about a year, and loved taking all the mobs from other guilds.....loved every second of it....

So you agree that the only reason you have a chance in hell to swing a sword at these mobs is because of the class R guilds you're talking shit about?

[Ciroco]

So you agree that the only reason you have a chance in hell to swing a sword at these mobs is because of the class R guilds you're whining about?

[Ciroco]

dat double post doe

[Bben]

Id rather there be no rule and have TMO get it all, than not even have a chance at a mob cause rule says can't be in zone if it pops......jus sayin

[Ciroco]

I reeeaaally doubt that, but okay.

[Fountree]

I agree with Bben in that I'd support TMO getting everything in a pure FTE environment over this current, confusing rule set. But I've always had that opinion. There shouldnt be any GM interaction with the raid scene on p99 and rotations, poopsocking etc. because its not classic. Raid rotations were player formed and enforced on live, the GMs never told the guilds how to play the game.

[BurgyK]

That's basically why the rules were made in the first place, cause you wouldn't get a chance either way, or you actually enjoy poopsocking inny for 3 days...
Whatever, difference of perspective I guess

[Fountree]

That's basically why the rules were made in the first place, cause you wouldn't get a chance either way, or you actually enjoy poopsocking inny for 3 days...
Whatever, difference of perspective I guess

Well with greatly reduced variance this isn't an issue anymore. But I'm fine with going back to the extended windows since it allows for daily raiding and more unpredictability in the windows. Better for non-US players, lower variance actually greatly helps TMO and Class C.

[Frieza_Prexus]

There is no how the server "should" be. The people managing it have stated that they want the server to be as classic as possible, but they've also said that the purpose of this server is to be accessible to a broad audience.

The devs set the "classic" standard, but they've also set the standard of accessibility. Neither one overrides the other; they've been made to coexist, and there's no authority for anyone else to claim that it must be otherwise.

[Hyjal]

I guess I'll say it again.


Having trackers spam auto target for 16 hour windows to FTE has really brought out the best Everquest has to offer... The rules are also designed around FTE, and If FTE is going to work, the rules need to be stated clearly and be concise. They obviously are not.

This is what happens when you try to micromanage everyone.

[Hyjal]

If you cant' taste that sarcasm, I can't help ya.

[Fountree]

There is no how the server "should" be. The people managing it have stated that they want the server to be as classic as possible, but they've also said that the purpose of this server is to be accessible to a broad audience.

The devs set the "classic" standard, but they've also set the standard of accessibility. Neither one overrides the other; they've been made to coexist, and there's no authority for anyone else to claim that it must be otherwise.

How is the server more accessible when Lord Bob, an up and coming guild, comprised mostly of members who are barely level 51 and whose players have little raid experience on p99, has to jump through a ton of regulated hoops to kill a Maestro? lol. In the grand sceheme of things, is this really important enough to suspend a lot of these players who just want to have a good time? Accessible my ass

[arsenalpow]

I think you're an idiot and that your guild is a joke but I'll more than willingly answer any question you have so you don't slip up again. I'm that nice.

[Ciroco]

Having trackers spam auto target for 16 hour windows to FTE has really brought out the best Everquest has to offer...

irony much?

[Frieza_Prexus]

How is the server more accessible when Lord Bob, an up and coming guild, comprised mostly of members who are barely level 51 and whose players have little raid experience on p99, has to jump through a ton of regulated hoops to kill a Maestro? lol. In the grand sceheme of things, is this really important enough to suspend a lot of these players who just want to have a good time? Accessible my ass

The rules are not perfect, and they certainly need some tweaking. Personally, I think that Class R should have much more leniency accorded it.

That said, the new rules are undeniably working, and they've opened up more content to more people than ever before. A few problems don't mean the whole system is broken.

[Fountree]

I think you're an idiot and that your guild is a joke but I'll more than willingly answer any question you have so you don't slip up again. I'm that nice.

Why aren't these specifics posted for everyone to see, I agree with Hyjal.

[arsenalpow]

How is the server more accessible when Lord Bob, an up and coming guild, comprised mostly of members who are barely level 51 and whose players have little raid experience on p99, has to jump through a ton of regulated hoops to kill a Maestro? lol. In the grand sceheme of things, is this really important enough to suspend a lot of these players who just want to have a good time? Accessible my ass

Ok so you don't like this ruleset. How do you modify this ruleset to prevent things like camping on spawn point and the other bullshit that goes with it?

[Bben]

ya cause BDA was so good at getting targets killed before this rule.....they are the joke.....carebear rule needed to get a kill

[arsenalpow]

Why aren't these specifics posted for everyone to see, I agree with Hyjal.

Because I'm not a GM. I think that's the next logical step.

Vote Chest for new GM.

[Bben]

how long did BDA cry to GM's to get them to make this rule anyway, year or 2?

[Lazie]

I guess I'll say it again.


Having trackers spam auto target for 16 hour windows to FTE has really brought out the best Everquest has to offer... The rules are also designed around FTE, and If FTE is going to work, the rules need to be stated clearly and be concise. They obviously are not.

This is what happens when you try to micromanage everyone.

Rules are stated clearly. You just need to read the PNP. Reading doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

[Fountree]

Ok so you don't like this ruleset. How do you modify this ruleset to prevent things like camping on spawn point and the other bullshit that goes with it?

Have people only be allowed close to zone-ins for every raid target? That would provide some consistency instead of a changing "safe area" for every zone. Not being allowed in a zone at all is stupid.

[Splorf22]

Having trackers spam auto target for 16 hour windows to FTE has really brought out the best Everquest has to offer... The rules are also designed around FTE, and If FTE is going to work, the rules need to be stated clearly and be concise. They obviously are not.

The Class R experience has massively improved over the past 4 months. If you hadn't made antagonizing all of Class R a priority, your guild would have been in the rotation by now killing Trakanon.

Unfortunately raiding competition in the Kunark era is destined to be dumb; the mobs just aren't hard enough so it ends up being all about "effort". The solution is to make the targets harder, i.e. Velious.

[arsenalpow]

Have people only be allowed close to zone-ins for every raid target? That would provide some consistency instead of a changing "safe area" for every zone. Not being allowed in a zone at all is stupid.

That's pretty much the rule except for the planes and weird shit like TD. That and you can have two two trackers anywhere tracking by whatever means you want to use. You can be inside KC at the zone in en masse when VS spawns or the same in Seb when Trak spawns.

[radditsu]

Ok so the lead has been buried...divinity lost to fucking maestro. Sad

[Troubled]

ya cause BDA was so good at getting targets killed before this rule.....they are the joke.....carebear rule needed to get a kill

I just can't take anyone with a kitten avatar seriously, no matter how many times you've been suspended for killing maestro, even with the raging bda hard-on you have. So cute.

[khanable]

omg IB suspended now

Sirken monster kill

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

i have a question, what makes:
Having a raid force waiting outside plane - good
Having a raid force gate out of plane and come back in - bad

now is it actually what happened ? i don't know but it seems to me it should be allowed. Maybe it's because it can't be verified by logs ? I am just curious here.
^Exactly if you can be outside the zone in, than zoning out an coming back in is Ok.
If they really all gated out an came back in , it should be a legit kill.
At least that is how the rules was wrote.
You can see Sirken said in their ban forum "instead of clearing" meaning they did not clear out ? In which case ban.
BUT IF THEY DID CLEAR OUT...
When the rules was discussed there was people who said "what if we are in hate clearing stuff an inny pops?" and GM response was everyone would have to zone out an come back in. So if they did all zone out. How is it a ban still?

I am not sure how class R has came up with
More than two disqualifies you from the mob period. No amount of zoning in or out will remove the DQ.

Naggy - I think the FG ledge was considered ok

Never heard of this rule. ALL Rules need to be posted better if this is how its running.

[Hyjal]

Chest, the white knight crusader of p99. Its a good thing most of the server already knows how hard you fought to make Project1999 as trivial as humanely possible or the community would actually care what you had to say.

Its equally as hilarious to act like you know all the answers. Even before a GM's response. You couldn't cut it with the big boys. End of story. You struck out with all the hot chicks so many times you finally realized that you better get anything you can find before you found yourself plugging Mr. Winky the rest of your life. That's the truth and you know it.

[arsenalpow]

omg IB suspended now

Sirken monster kill

Cue up the rains of castamere

[khanable]

hyjal just salty that 7 of his members reached out to me today about leaving Dolj

[Frieza_Prexus]

The zone in / out stuff is well known to those who've negotiated the current raid rules, but it does need a lot more exposure for new entrants. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to hammer out a quick list of acceptable behaviors.

I find myself sympathetic to Dolij's situation as their ignorance seems reasonably justifiable, but then I see how they're acting here and it just evaporates.

If you responded the same way Azure Guard has to their situation, a lot of people might be on your side.

[Kekephee]

Chest, the white knight crusader of p99. Its a good thing most of the server already knows how hard you fought to make Project1999 as trivial as humanely possible or the community would actually care what you had to say.

Its equally as hilarious to act like you know all the answers. Even before a GM's response. You couldn't cut it with the big boys. End of story. You struck out with all the hot chicks so many times you finally realized that you better get anything you can find before you found yourself plugging Mr. Winky the rest of your life. That's the truth and you know it.

On behalf of the majority of the server population who were actively avoiding this server's clusterfucky, butt-invading raid scene until Chest and also let's not forget pretty much every member of every guild on the server except TMO who all agreed together that this way was better but for now let's pretend it was just Chest I'd like to say Thanks, Chest and It's Fun To Actually Get To Kill Dragons Now Instead Of Doing What I Was Doing, Which Was Grouping In Karnor's All Day Every Day Wishing I Could Kill Dragons

[DeruIsLove]

hey, its a man's world, if you can't hang go clean your bleeding vagina

Get a job

[Hyjal]

You know I dislike rotations more than anyone, but rotations at this point in the server aren't all that bad. With velious around the corner, who cares? A lot of folks are killing dragons and getting gear they otherwise would never see. I simply am stating that the FTE rules need to be stated clearly and be concise.

[arsenalpow]

Chest, the white knight crusader of p99. Its a good thing most of the server already knows how hard you fought to make Project1999 as trivial as humanely possible or the community would actually care what you had to say.

Its equally as hilarious to act like you know all the answers. Even before a GM's response. You couldn't cut it with the big boys. End of story. You struck out with all the hot chicks so many times you finally realized that you better get anything you can find before you found yourself plugging Mr. Winky the rest of your life. That's the truth and you know it.

I'm usually right. Get used to it.

[Hyjal]

3 Raid guilds are suspended atm. Something is not clear. Is there anybody in there?

[arsenalpow]

3 Raid guilds are suspended atm. Something is not clear. Is there anybody in there?

Two actually. You don't count.

AG made an honest mistake after the lockout list malfunctioned and IB getting suspended after draco was a 2 yellows make a red after Fay.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

The zone in / out stuff is well known to those who've negotiated the current raid rules, but it does need a lot more exposure for new entrants. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to hammer out a quick list of acceptable behaviors.


For sure.

I was around during the discussion an remember people saying "if we are in hate fighting and inny pops can we kill it?" and the GM response was " No you would all have to zone out an come back in to have a shot."

Is it now "More than two disqualifies you from the mob period. No amount of zoning in or out will remove the DQ."? Or is that just a class R rule?
If so it is dumb IMO, if you can all zone out an come back in than its legit.

not DQ / Ban for being in hate or fear when they pop.

But DQ / Ban for having more than 2 in the zone than NOT clearing that.

Still no word on if Lord Bob actually cleared out. Guessing not since they haven't got un banned.

So how is it running than?

[Hyjal]

I understand Chest. If I was in your situation.. I'd be saying the same thing. Gotta get what you can get ya know. As long as we know whoever has the most handouts Chest will side with, the world will still spin.

[arsenalpow]

I understand Chest. If I was in your situation.. I'd be saying the same thing. Gotta get what you can get ya know. As long as we know whoever has the most handouts Chest will side with, the world will still spin.

What fucking plane of reality do you fucking exist in? Your level of cluelessness is shocking.

[arsenalpow]

For sure.

I was around during the discussion an remember people saying "if we are in hate fighting and inny pops can we kill it?" and the GM response was " No you would all have to zone out an come back in to have a shot."

Is it now "More than two disqualifies you from the mob period. No amount of zoning in or out will remove the DQ."? Or is that just a class R rule?
If so it is dumb IMO, if you can all zone out an come back in than its legit.

not DQ / Ban for being in hate or fear when they pop.

But DQ / Ban for having more than 2 in the zone than NOT clearing that.

Still no word on if Lord Bob actually cleared out. Guessing not since they haven't got un banned.

So how is it running than?

I don't think they ever clarified that you can zone out to be able to engage. It was immediately brought up after BDA suffered the wrath week 1 of the new raid scene at Trak. Dolj could have avoided punishment if they had just not killed maestro.

[Bben]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

[khanable]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

It would probably go like this:

Chest to GM's: We can't acquire pixels

GM's to Chest: Ok, making Cecily a dark elf, eat a dick

[arsenalpow]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

Because Sirken and Derubael definitely like me.

I only called Sirken biased in a PM two days ago after BDA had to wait a month to get our ninja looted Verina Tomb reimbursed compared to TMO getting their Fay petition answered in 30 minutes. To which he responded with two paragraphs of all caps expletives.

[Amra]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

So much hate...

[Mezzmur]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

Need a new BDA Will Have Epics GIF.

SWISH WRU

[kylok]

I'm usually right. Get used to it.

actually how about this, instead of acting like a cocky, spoiled, little brat, you appreciate the fact that a staff member actually took the time to put 10 minutes into giving you a sincere response, and then you reciprocate that good deed by taking a few minutes to actually read it, before just clicking reply and smashing buttons on the keyboard.

<3
Sirks

[Ravager]

Chest tells GM ,"Something needs to be done, BDA can't get a kill to save our lives, TMO owns us! Our guild will never see loot at this rate!"

GM says, "OK, Carebear rule incoming!"

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131586 tells a different story.

[Cecily]

It would probably go like this:

Chest to GM's: We can't acquire pixels

GM's to Chest: Ok, making Cecily a dark elf, eat a dick

Omg please.

[Swish]

Need a new BDA Will Have Epics GIF.

SWISH WRU

http://i.minus.com/ix41tS80gUbDY.gif

[kylok]

On behalf of IB I'd like to apologize for the draco "KS", there was a misunderstanding with the FTE shout, the corpse was never looted though to my knowledge when the mistake was realized.

It was also to my understanding via our Skype conversation that the punishment for Fay was a 1 time settlement of a loot deletion only, due to the circumstances.

Thank you for all of your hard work investigating these issues, hopefully they will not happen again.

Vs.

How about this, we each knock off the unproductive snark and address the issue at hand. This will allow me to explain the fundamental differences between the two classes and it will save you 10 minutes of crafting a response that I don't even read.

I'll give it the 'ol college try and talk to TMO leadership right here in this thread, they just have to post. I await their thought out position regarding this situation.

That, I would imagine is why certain guilds get issues resolved quickly while others do not.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

I don't think they ever clarified that you can zone out to be able to engage.

Ok. Yea that is our problem than.
Someone needs to type up a 5 minute brief overview of the little rules. So you guys stop getting banned lol.
Need more clarification an rules in writing that are posted.

For real if you are in hate or fear an get caught during a raid pop, if you all zone out, it should be legit. You are gonna get beat 90% of the time zoning out an coming back in so it shouldn't matter.
Like could they have camped out, an brung another char or is it 100% DQ.
Like if your running threw DL 3-4 guildy an gore pops, you all zone into KC , than back into DL, an you can engage that gore. It shouldn't be insta DQ if you are just passing by or in fear/hates case. Farming gear. Right?

[khanable]

I think the issue with Dolj was they say the "left the zone" and came back in, but the reality was they wiped to maestro, and then trained Divinity into wiping when they came back up. So that's not exactly porting out and then porting back in..

[arsenalpow]

Well my position that inspired that rebuttal is now being backed by TMO. Mazam agrees that trackers also pulling ruins competition.

[Ella`Ella]

Well my position that inspired that rebuttal is now being backed by TMO. Mazam agrees that trackers also pulling ruins competition.

Chest, we agree! Mark this day!

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

I think the issue with Dolj was they say the "left the zone" and came back in, but the reality was they wiped to maestro, and then trained Divinity into wiping when they came back up. So that's not exactly porting out and then porting back in..

Yea ok since that is answered.
Than they deserve the ban than.

But for real (not lies) if the people do zone out an back in that should be a legit kill. This needs to be clarified for some people.
Even Chest a big leader in the raid discussions thinks it is instant DQ/BAN if you have more than 2 in zone. Than Sirken in his ban said "They did not clear ". Meaning they did not zone out an clear the zone? Which would of been legit kill than right?

I think these rules should be clarified an posted better so everyones on the same page. It would clear a lot of headaches.

[Troubled]

Vs.



That, I would imagine is why certain guilds get issues resolved quickly while others do not.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1284710&postcount=2

[Funkutron5000]

I don't think any of use are comfortable agreeing with Chest, and Chest isn't comfortable agreeing with us. Let's just get it done so we can get back to calling each other names and acting like children.

[Bben]

http://i.minus.com/ix41tS80gUbDY.gif


lol

[khanable]

There was definitely discussion about leaving and re-entering a plane, but it didn't end with a "yes it's okay" or "no, don't do it" type answer. It could perhaps be revisited, but I wouldn't tempt fate by trying it in the mean time.

[Mezzmur]

http://i.minus.com/ix41tS80gUbDY.gif

[Bben]

like the post says, dumbest rule ever....... i don't care about suspended from raids, i'd do it all over again, shouldn't be a rule saying if a guild is legit clearing the plane, just for drops, and Meastro just happens to spawn, means we have no chance at even attempting the mob or we get suspended.......wtf.....just wtf.....how is that fair to the new guilds, oh your not allowed to attack this mob cause it happened to spawn while you were doing a raid.....might as well turn this into warcraft, give everyone their own instances, and no competition ever again.....WARCRAFT CAREBEAR


http://i.minus.com/ix41tS80gUbDY.gif

[arsenalpow]

Chest, we agree! Mark this day!
look, i agree that letting tracking engage/stall/pull is stupid, but removing that rule doesn't really fix anything. If that got changed the next step would be bard pullers at the agreed upon location so it would just be a foot race

Yea ok since that is answered.
Than they deserve the ban than.

But for real (not lies) if the people do zone out an back in that should be a legit kill. This needs to be clarified for some people.
Even Chest a big leader in the raid discussions thinks it is instant DQ/BAN if you have more than 2 in zone. Than Sirken in his ban said "They did not clear ". Meaning they did not zone out an clear the zone? Which would of been legit kill than right?

I think these rules should be clarified an posted better so everyones on the same page. It would clear a lot of headaches.

I didn't agree with it being a ban, but that's just how the rule has been enforced.


My solution to fix all this shit is two fold.

1) remove the FFA cycle of mobs, make it just Class C then Class R.
2) Let each class dictate how they want to handle their mobs

class R will continue doing their rotations and monitoring ourselves and class C can drop the gloves and train/ks/lie/cheat/steal for their mobs

[Frieza_Prexus]

like the post says, dumbest rule ever....... i don't care about suspended from raids, i'd do it all over again, shouldn't be a rule saying if a guild is legit clearing the plane, just for drops, and Meastro just happens to spawn, means we have no chance at even attempting the mob or we get suspended.......wtf.....just wtf.....how is that fair to the new guilds, oh your not allowed to attack this mob cause it happened to spawn while you were doing a raid.....might as well turn this into warcraft, give everyone their own instances, and no competition ever again.....WARCRAFT CAREBEAR

That rule was put in place because power guilds were farming the planes 24/7 when the mobs were in window. Planar armor is now much more accessible to the general population.

Socking in game is not the solution.

[Kekephee]

Because Sirken and Derubael definitely like me.

I only called Sirken biased in a PM two days ago after BDA had to wait a month to get our ninja looted Verina Tomb reimbursed compared to TMO getting their Fay petition answered in 30 minutes. To which he responded with two paragraphs of all caps expletives.

Ask Sirken for permission to post screen caps of this, I want it


He'll say "yes" because he likes you so much and you're his brother in law IRL we all know it true

[Erati]

so theres alot of competition with sitting up in Hate with a raid force during the tiny ( compared to the old 9 + day) 16 hour window Maestro has to pop?

who else can beat you to that spawn if ur already up there in force

sounds like you are afraid of competition to me

[Bben]

i understand getting rid of poopsocking, but there has to be another way besides saying a guild that didn't even know it was going to spawn, and happens to be in zone, can't touch it.....we had no idea it was going to pop, we were just clearing hate.....

[Swish]

hey pal are you gonna say thanks for the sig or wut? :p

[Bben]

your the best swish lol

[arsenalpow]

i understand getting rid of poopsocking, but there has to be another way besides saying a guild that didn't even know it was going to spawn, and happens to be in zone, can't touch it.....we had no idea it was going to pop, we were just clearing hate.....

i'll even provide your dumb guild with the windows of each mob so you can avoid the planes if you want

[Erati]

i understand getting rid of poopsocking, but there has to be another way besides saying a guild that didn't even know it was going to spawn, and happens to be in zone, can't touch it.....we had no idea it was going to pop, we were just clearing hate.....

sounds like your leader has never read the Raid Rules then

oh wait, he was asked to be apart of the discussion to create the rules, refused, then was asked to join the rotation, accepted then dropped out stealing the timers, then his guild disbanded

seriously tho, blame your leaders for this mishap....the Lord Bob members were simply playing Everquest while its your leadership that failed you

[arsenalpow]

I like the direction this is heading =D

for real, remove the overlap so class C and class R don't have to deal with each other if they don't want to and let class C just go nuts #PrinceLetsGoCrazy

[Hyjal]

Failed what exactly? lol. And for the record, we play on a Europe/Asia time frame, and had no clue Maestro was even in window. We start raids before the sun comes up for most of you guys. Hate to break it to ya.

[Tiggles]

I agree with removing FFA if it goes Class C, Class C, Class R. This would entice class R guilds to try and compete and move up into tiers.

[khanable]

Well my position that inspired that rebuttal is now being backed by TMO. Mazam agrees that trackers also pulling ruins competition.

Chest, we agree! Mark this day!

Failed what exactly? lol. And for the record, we play on a Europe/Asia time frame, and had no clue Maestro was even in window. We start raids before the sun comes up for most of you guys. Hate to break it to ya.

Several of your members told me today you were in plane of hate specifically for maestro.

[Hyjal]

I think its a pretty good accomplishment for us to have 30+ online before you guys drink your coffee If you ask me. =)

[khanable]

Ignore the other two quotes, I was saving them for posterity and walked away for a bit

[arsenalpow]

I agree with removing FFA if it goes Class C, Class C, Class R. This would entice class R guilds to try and compete and move up into tiers.

Tier access should only be governed by playstyle. Just because you enjoy acting like a shithead doesn't mean you get 2:1 spawns. Removing FFA would allow you to agree to terms with IB without being restricted by silly server rules. Training? Sure! KSing! Why not?

[Gaunja]

Add Class B (Beginners). Vox, Naggy, POF/POH trash. =p

[Azure]

OP can haz fun on red if u think u are some kind of awesome.

[Mezzmur]

I agree with removing FFA if it goes Class C, Class C, Class R. This would entice class R guilds to try and compete and move up into tiers.

I would support this change.

[Bben]

depends Azure, does Jeremy still play on red? use to love killing him over and over back when red first came out.....would be fun to do it again.

[arsenalpow]

Add Class B (Beginners). Vox, Naggy, POF/POH trash. =p

we're more than willing to leave mobs up for guilds trying to break into class R, the issue is that after 6 hours the mobs turns FFA and IB/TMO have many many mouths to feed and rents to pay so dragons won't last past that.

[Ciroco]

What percentage of FFA mobs is class R getting?

[Lazie]

What percentage of FFA mobs is class R getting?

On simulated repops they get a few.

[arsenalpow]

What percentage of FFA mobs is class R getting?

not many, we aren't really interested in sitting on a spawn point for 16 hours with an autofire macro that targets/javs a mob or with a pet sitting on the spawn point

Taken got some Sevs, BDA got some Voxs and maybe a few other misc targets but it's not an effort thing, it's the stupidity of the tactics

[Ciroco]

So would going C/C/R really change anything?

[arsenalpow]

So would going C/C/R really change anything?

whatever percentage we are getting would be removed

Class C obviously wants to tear each others hearts out. Let them.

The FFA cycle provides an overlap where we all have to play nice together. Scrap that shit. Make it so there's no overlap that way Class R can police themselves and Class C can shit all over each with predetermined rules agreed upon by TMO and IB.

[Frieza_Prexus]

So would going C/C/R really change anything?

Well, the band broke up back in 1972, so I'm not sure we would really go with them, but John Fogerty still tours.

[Hyjal]

"Class R can police themselves and Class C can shit all over each with predetermined rules agreed upon by TMO and IB."


..crap. I agree with Chest. Definitely my last post for the day. Less micromanaging, more Everquest.

[Troubled]

"Class R can police themselves and Class C can shit all over each with predetermined rules agreed upon by TMO and IB."


..crap. I agree with Chest. Definitely my last post for the day. Less micromanaging, more Everquest.

One of us. One of us.

[Draxx]

whatever percentage we are getting would be removed

Class C obviously wants to tear each others hearts out. Let them.

The FFA cycle provides an overlap where we all have to play nice together. Scrap that shit. Make it so there's no overlap that way Class R can police themselves and Class C can shit all over each with predetermined rules agreed upon by TMO and IB.

Chest is my hero, can I join BDA with my lvl 8 Cleric?

[gobbosnobbo]

Wait, theres no more FTE?

[Droog007]

EQ is suppose to be competition, not a list of who's turn it is......

How the fuck do you figure that? I'll wager that EQ was supposed to be something far, far different than the "race to mobs" inter-guild competition that developed on Live, and was perfected to horrifying heights on P99.

I personally agree with you that being effectively barred from a zone before the boss spawns is terribly un-classic and feels ridiculous. But it's an integral part of the best plan that could be agreed upon in an effort to undo the absolute shitshow that minds like yours made out of an otherwise beautiful game.

[Argh]

Well, the band broke up back in 1972, so I'm not sure we would really go with them, but John Fogerty still tours.

Best line in this thread.

[stonez138]

sounds like your leader has never read the Raid Rules then

oh wait, he was asked to be apart of the discussion to create the rules, refused, then was asked to join the rotation, accepted then dropped out stealing the timers, then his guild disbanded

seriously tho, blame your leaders for this mishap....the Lord Bob members were simply playing Everquest while its your leadership that failed you

Don't forget how he specifically said No Rotations in his post announcing he was reforming guild....Oh and he said Lick Tears haha. Guess he meant the tears he and his guild would be crying.

[Gaffin 7.0]

http://i59.tinypic.com/6eqeth.gif

[Bben]

http://i.minus.com/ix41tS80gUbDY.gif

[Gaffin 7.0]

http://i60.tinypic.com/2jb484m.jpg