Freedom From Atheism Foundation

[DeruIsLove]

HOW IS THIS A THING?!?

[Argh]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

[DeruIsLove]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

Exprain.

[Cecily]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

[DeruIsLove]

Exprain.

[Argh]

Its an unorganized religion

[Rhuma7]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg/330px-Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

[DeruIsLove]

Its an unorganized religion

You are incorrect.

Even if you weren't though it still wouldn't explain your first post.

[Argh]

You are incorrect.

No I'm not.

[DeruIsLove]

Denying the facts doesn't mean they suddenly stop preventing your accusation from being true.

[Rhuma7]

No I'm not.


re·li·gion
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

[Argh]

Atheists postulate there isn't a god. Theists postulate there is.

What's the difference?

[Argh]

re·li·gion
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Thanks webster

[DeruIsLove]

Atheists postulate there isn't a god. Theists postulate there is.

What's the difference?

That English language thing.

[stonez138]

Its an unorganized religion

It's just so ignorant that the mindless masses of christian sheep can convince themselves of this.

There is no atheistic cannon, there are no atheistic rituals, there is no atheistic leader that they follow mindlessly...

Just dumb. So dumb...

[Cecily]

You are incorrect.

Even if you weren't though it still wouldn't explain your first post.

Denying the facts doesn't mean they suddenly stop preventing your accusation from being true.

because atheists are annoying as fuck

[Rhuma7]

Thanks webster

Just figured I would educate you on what you're rambling about like a crazy person.

[stonez138]

canon*

[Cecily]

It's just so ignorant that the mindless masses of christian sheep can convince themselves of this.

There is no atheistic cannon, there are no atheistic rituals, there is no atheistic leader that they follow mindlessly...

Just dumb. So dumb...

This attitude is why you're annoying as fuck. Love, someone who doesn't believe in god.

[Argh]

Just figured I would educate you on what you're rambling about like a crazy person.

Thanks for the education. I can cherry pick definitions too, though.

a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

[DeruIsLove]

This attitude is why you're annoying as fuck. Love, someone who doesn't believe in god.

Personally I find those whom know better yet still willfully allow ignorance to perpetuate to be more of a problem than the ignorance that I'm actively against.

Sincerely, someone who acknowledges the possibility of something greater than 'us'
:)

[DeruIsLove]

Thanks for the education. I can cherry pick definitions too, though.

Inb4 you claim that science is a religion too.

[stonez138]

Thanks for the education. I can cherry pick definitions too, though.

And none of those definitions apply to atheisim.

[Lune]

Trolling with semantics is a religion

[DeruIsLove]

Atheists harp on believers for having faith in something that isn't "seen".

However, a great majority of those same Atheists get offended by that same something in which they claim to believe doesn't exist.

lol

This is a common misconception. The problem atheists near universally have, is the fact that the religious majority are using their faith to justify immoral decisions that directly impact the qualities of life of people around the world.

[Argh]

This is a common misconception. The problem atheists near universally have, is the fact that the religious majority are using their faith to justify immoral decisions that directly impact the qualities of life of people around the world.

That's antitheism not atheism.

[Rhuma7]

Thanks for the education. I can cherry pick definitions too, though.


Thanks for the education. I can cherry pick definitions too, though.

Quote:
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Quote:
an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
Quote:
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

last quote is as far reaching as anything could possibly be but in your circumstance you're painting the picture with a bigger brush than the canvas, brother.

I didn't cherry pick definitions, it is the first and basic definition of the word.

Unorganized or organized doesn't make atheism a religion.

[DeruIsLove]

That's antitheism not atheism.

The majority of atheists are anti-theists. What's your point?

[jarshale]

The majority of atheists are anti-theists. What's your point?

Source?

[Argh]

The majority of atheists are anti-theists. What's your point?

That they're two different things.

[DeruIsLove]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

That they're two different things.

So which one is annoying again?

[Argh]

So which one is annoying again?

The people who live in the same glass house as those they are throwing stones at.

[DeruIsLove]

Source?

http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/017-Why-did-you-tell-me.jpg

[DeruIsLove]

The people who live in the same glass house as those they are throwing stones at.

Sorry. I must ask that if you are going to back up your position that you don't use anecdote, as it is so easily misconstrued.

[Argh]

It's just so ignorant that the mindless masses of christian sheep can convince themselves of this.

I'm both, agnostic and antitheist.

[Argh]

Sorry. I must ask that if you are going to back up your position that you don't use anecdote, as it is so easily misconstrued.

That would be an idiom and not an anecdote.

[Faron]

you guys are boring as fuck

[DeruIsLove]

That would be an idiom and not an anecdote.

Please refrain from both then.

[stonez138]

The majority of atheists are anti-theists. What's your point?

I have to disagree. The majority of atheists just mind their own business. There is a small but vocal minority that are anti-theists.

[DeruIsLove]

I have to disagree. The majority of atheists just mind their own business. There is a small but vocal minority that are anti-theists.

I would agree with you to a point, as a good number of them can't do anything because they are closeted atheists and would lose much of if not everything that they have not to mention possibly being ostracized from their family/community.

As for the ones who are publicly non-religious and don't do anything, they are part of the problem similar to (note before you blow your tops: similar) women who sat back and did nothing during the women's rights movements (or today those who don't fight for control over their own bodies) , or African Americans who did nothing during the civil rights times, or like homosexuals who don't fight for their rights.

[Argh]

As for the ones who are publicly non-religious and don't do anything, they are part of the problem similar to (note before you blow your tops: similar) women who sat back and did nothing during the women's rights movements (or today those who don't fight for control over their own bodies) , or African Americans who did nothing during the civil rights times, or like homosexuals who don't fight for their rights.

Maybe the worst analogy ever expressed. Grats.

[stonez138]

Maybe the worst analogy ever expressed. Grats.

Could be worse. Could've said like the jews that didn't fight against the Nazi's.

[DeruIsLove]

Maybe the worst analogy ever expressed. Grats.
Tell that to all of the African American, female, homosexual and non-Christian leaders of this country... oh wait...
Could be worse. Could've said like the jews that didn't fight against the Nazi's.

I would never make such a comparison. That's be as bad as trying to use the native Americans during the trail of tears as an example: there's several reasons I didn't.

[stonez138]

Tell that to all of the African American, female, homosexual and non-Christian leaders of this country... oh wait...

America is governed by majority rule. Like it or not the majority of americans aren't black, gay or atheist. Maybe someday.

[Argh]

Tell that to all of the African American, female, homosexual and non-Christian leaders of this country... oh wait...

What am I telling them exactly? That you're analogy is horse shit? I think that they could deduce that on their own.

[Xer0]

This attitude is why you're annoying as fuck. Love, someone who doesn't believe in god.

qft

[DeruIsLove]

America is governed by majority rule. Like it or not the majority of americans aren't black, gay or atheist. Maybe someday.
That's not how democratic republics are supposed to work though.
What am I telling them exactly? That you're analogy is horse shit? I think that they could deduce that on their own.

They don't exist fool. Also your privilege is showing.

[Xer0]

America is governed by majority rule. Like it or not the majority of americans aren't black, gay or atheist. Maybe someday.


There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
Political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
Majority rule don't work in mental institutions

[stonez138]

Originally Posted by NOFX - The Idiots are Taking Over
There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
Political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
Majority rule don't work in mental institutions

I agree. I think you should have to earn the franchise by doing a certain amomunt (like 2 years) of military or civil service for the country.

[Argh]

They don't exist fool. Also your privilege is showing.

Did you mean to say Presidents? Because of those groups listed have leaders in this country.

[DeruIsLove]

Did you mean to say Presidents? Because of those groups listed have leaders in this country.

None of any significance and you know it.

[Eliseus]

I think the assumption that there is no one out there "greater" then us is ignorance in itself. Being an atheist, I would assume you guys use any knowledge you try to base your judgements on or opinions on would be scientific. Yet scientist say that we will find extraterrestrial life withing x amount of years (x because I don't want to look up what the predicted date was) and are also finding millions of earth like planets now. Maybe you atheists don't choose to believe in the typical Christian God, but in modern days, it is completely and absolutely 100% absurd to claim that God doesn't/couldn't exist considering the amount of proof that is currently present in modern day science. Hell, science has even come out and said that one day we could be gods with the way technology is advancing and that it is unrealistic to assume not.

Oh wait, I forgot. Out of all the millions of galaxies and stars and planets, we are the only living organisms. Right?

[Orruar]

None of any significance and you know it.

Your racism and homophobia are showing.

[DeruIsLove]

I think the assumption that there is no one out there "greater" then us is ignorance in itself. Being an atheist, I would assume you guys use any knowledge you try to base your judgements on or opinions on would be scientific. Yet scientist say that we will find extraterrestrial life withing x amount of years (x because I don't want to look up what the predicted date was) and are also finding millions of earth like planets now. Maybe you atheists don't choose to believe in the typical Christian God, but in modern days, it is completely and absolutely 100% absurd to claim that God doesn't/couldn't exist considering the amount of proof that is currently present in modern day science. Hell, science has even come out and said that one day we could be gods with the way technology is advancing and that it is unrealistic to assume not.

Oh wait, I forgot. Out of all the millions of galaxies and stars and planets, we are the only living organisms. Right?
Everything about this post is wrong. It's formatted nicely but the content is absurd.
Your racism and homophobia are showing.
Oh really. Enlighten me then.

[stonez138]

Oh wait, I forgot. Out of all the millions of galaxies and stars and planets, we are the only living organisms. Right?

Isn't that exactly what evangelicals believe? To me that would be like a squirrel believing that there are no other squirrels living in any other trees.

[Splorf22]

As for the ones who are publicly non-religious and don't do anything, they are part of the problem similar to (note before you blow your tops: similar) women who sat back and did nothing during the women's rights movements (or today those who don't fight for control over their own bodies) , or African Americans who did nothing during the civil rights times, or like homosexuals who don't fight for their rights.

It's almost like you believe government can accomplish useful things.

[stonez138]

A quote from an article published april 18, 2014

This is an historic discovery of the first truly Earth-size planet found in the habitable zone around its star,” Geoff Marcy, an astronomer at the University of California, Berkeley, who is unaffiliated with the research, told Space.com via email. “This is the best case for a habitable planet yet found. The results are absolutely rock-solid. The planet itself may not be, but I’d bet my house on it. In any case, it’s a gem.”

Thats quite different from your assertion that they are also finding millions of earth like planets now

[DeruIsLove]

It's almost like you believe government can accomplish useful things.
Causation is an amazing thing isn't it?
A quote from an article published april 18, 2014

This is an historic discovery of the first truly Earth-size planet found in the habitable zone around its star,” Geoff Marcy, an astronomer at the University of California, Berkeley, who is unaffiliated with the research, told Space.com via email. “This is the best case for a habitable planet yet found. The results are absolutely rock-solid. The planet itself may not be, but I’d bet my house on it. In any case, it’s a gem.”

Thats quite different from your assertion that they are also finding millions of earth like planets now

Who asserted what?

[Arclyte]

I worship the Duke of Below, Brell Serilis

[DeruIsLove]

I worship the Duke of Below, Brell Serilis

This doesn't negatively effect anyone in any way, shape or form! Congratulations. Your deity is better than most others'.

[stonez138]

I was addressing the person that claimed scientists have found "millions of earth like planets"

It's simply false.

[Cecily]

I know in my heart they're out there.

[DeruIsLove]

I was addressing the person that claimed scientists have found "millions of earth like planets"

It's simply false.

Oh. Whoops, had to read that post three times. I thought you were referencing the final sentence of that post. Didn't see that claim in the middle, it was muddled with so much misinformation that I'd of been doing my brain a disservice to retain any of it anyway.

[Splorf22]

Causation is an amazing thing isn't it?

What exactly are you trying to say?

[DeruIsLove]

What exactly are you trying to say?

Nothing happens with a conservative majority rule. This isn't news.

[Glenzig]

This is the worst post ever. Atheists don't know how to debate evidently.

[Abbot]

http://i.imgur.com/e9DJjCo.jpg

[Abbot]

Existential crisis commence.

[DeruIsLove]

The only problem I have with that image is that Jesus is white.

[Glenzig]

Hah! ^^

[quido]

Agnosticism is the only logical viewpoint. Otherwise, prove it.

[DeruIsLove]

Agnosticism is the only logical viewpoint. Otherwise, prove it.

Ok. Is Dr pepper a root beer or a cola?

[Argh]

Ok. Is Dr pepper a root beer or a cola?

A corporation.

[DeruIsLove]

A corporation.

Wrong. Pepsi co. Is a corporation. :p

[Glenzig]

Ok. Is Dr pepper a root beer or a cola?

Its prune cola. People don't know that?

[Abbot]

We are literally being sucked into an unknown destination at something like 14 million mph. Will you trying to convince others into your beliefs save us? Will god? Will athiest?

No they fucking won't.


and now I'm sad.

[Glenzig]

We are literally being sucked into an unknown destination at something like 14 million mph. Will you trying to convince others into your beliefs save us? Will god? Will athiest?

No they fucking won't.


and now I'm sad.

The what now??

[Abbot]

The what now??
We've known for a while that our galaxy and some others are being pulled toward a "great attractor" Some have theorized it's a black hole. Larger than the measly black hole in the center of our galaxy that is still 3 million times larger than our sun.

No one can say what it is honestly ... but we are for a fact heading towards it at speeds that are hard for me to even comprehend.


But ya know ...fuck it. Game of Thrones is on.

[Glenzig]

We've known for a while that our galaxy and some others are being pulled toward a "great attractor" Some have theorized it's a black hole. Larger than the measly black hole in the center of our galaxy that is still 3 million times larger than our sun.

No one can say what it is honestly ... but we are for a fact heading towards it at speeds that are hard for me to even comprehend.


But ya know ...fuck it. Game of Thrones is on.

But wouldn't that throw everything out of balance? Shouldn't we be seeing some physical effects of the enormous amounts of gravity that would be involved in that. Shouldn't our solar rotation be affected by such a thing?

[Emsee]

All of all of your beliefs are fucking stupid, and wrong.

[Eliseus]

I was addressing the person that claimed scientists have found "millions of earth like planets"

It's simply false.

I'm sure googling the same info you googled to find your one post, the number of been exaggerated, may of not, but still doesn't change the point. Guess a true Aethist you are though, trying to grasp at straws for any argument you can, so you pick out the one thing that you still don't have credible proof of. I applaud you though and give you a 9/10 for effort.

[Abbot]

But wouldn't that throw everything out of balance? Shouldn't we be seeing some physical effects of the enormous amounts of gravity that would be involved in that. Shouldn't our solar rotation be affected by such a thing?

In short, we're too small to notice.

[DeruIsLove]

I'm sure googling the same info you googled to find your one post, the number of been exaggerated, may of not, but still doesn't change the point. Guess a true Aethist you are though, trying to grasp at straws for any argument you can, so you pick out the one thing that you still don't have credible proof of. I applaud you though and give you a 9/10 for effort.

Are you trying to imply that atheists and skeptics think aliens don't exist?

[Eliseus]

Are you trying to imply that atheists and skeptics think aliens don't exist?

No the implication was at the absurdity to assume those can exist yet a God couldn't. No matter what theory or ideas an Aethist can come up with, it can be tied to the possibility of a God existing unless they legitimately think we are the only existence possible. In that case there is no hope at all for them.

Yet me make sure this is clear also. I'm not saying that it is the God that me and the majority of the planet believe in, but the possibility of a God is there, is it the one we believe it? Maybe, maybe not, I believe it is, but doesn't change the fact that logic still points in the direction of the possibility of there being one.

[DeruIsLove]

The main point is the differentiation between "a god" and the Christian Yahweh. Even Dawkins and Hitchens both admitted to the possibility of higher forms of life/intelligence in several debates.

One of the issues I have is that the powers that be tend to lump everyone in the "non-religious" category into the atheist category. Myself being an agnostic anti-theist, I have a problem with that.

That said, I do see where you are coming from.

[Shamalam]

No the implication was at the absurdity to assume those can exist yet a God couldn't. No matter what theory or ideas an Aethist can come up with, it can be tied to the possibility of a God existing unless they legitimately think we are the only existence possible. In that case there is no hope at all for them.

Yet me make sure this is clear also. I'm not saying that it is the God that me and the majority of the planet believe in, but the possibility of a God is there, is it the one we believe it? Maybe, maybe not, I believe it is, but doesn't change the fact that logic still points in the direction of the possibility of there being one.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of "logic."

By your thought process, don't we also have to disprove the existence of leprechauns and unicorns? I mean, we haven't seen them, we have no evidence whatsoever that they exist, but can we REALLY rule out the possibility that they might be out there somewhere? Maybe they're just on a different planet!

You're also completely wrong if you think the number of christians on this planet is anywhere close to a "majority," but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Obrae]

http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jZFZpbN1bo4/UiuQUFMAniI/AAAAAAAATkw/GtjfdfoJm9A/s1600/tumblr_mnh2lgY3UH1qg6gtdo1_500.jpg

[Glenzig]

I don't think you quite understand the concept of "logic."

By your thought process, don't we also have to disprove the existence of leprechauns and unicorns? I mean, we haven't seen them, we have no evidence whatsoever that they exist, but can we REALLY rule out the possibility that they might be out there somewhere? Maybe they're just on a different planet!

You're also completely wrong if you think the number of christians on this planet is anywhere close to a "majority," but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Leprechauns and unicorns exist in the same manner that evolution exists then. No one has ever seen that either.

[Eliseus]

I don't think you quite understand the concept of "logic."

By your thought process, don't we also have to disprove the existence of leprechauns and unicorns? I mean, we haven't seen them, we have no evidence whatsoever that they exist, but can we REALLY rule out the possibility that they might be out there somewhere? Maybe they're just on a different planet!

You're also completely wrong if you think the number of christians on this planet is anywhere close to a "majority," but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Hate to break it to you, but the belief in Christ in the majority, and it does help me sleep at night. Thank you.

And no, I'm not presenting anything that has to be disproved, read my original post in this thread and you will see what I'm saying, I'm not saying "GOD EXISTS BELIEVE ME"m even though he does, I was merely pointing out an instance that is common among most atheists (I say most, because every single one I've run across base a lot of their thought process off science, but I'm assuming not all), and the absurdity behind it.

Thank you though for providing your 2cents and showing your arrogance/ignorance by ending with a comment that basically shows your knowledge being the superior knowledge. I'm actually pretty fascinated with people believes, whether it is not with what I believe or it is what I believe. I like to see how people think and their though process, and enjoy this convo quiet bit. The least you could do is post some constructive response rather acting you won some kind of argument that doesn't exist by tell me you hope I sleep better at night.

[Obrae]

Why do you guys waste time arguing with people that are still reasoning like stone age humans ?

[Glenzig]

Why do you guys waste time arguing with people that are still reasoning like stone age humans ?

Evolution was also a belief during the stone age. Its actually the second longest held belief system.

[Lune]

Evolution was also a belief during the stone age. Its actually the second longest held belief system.

wat

[stonez138]

Hate to break it to you, but the belief in Christ in the majority, and it does help me sleep at night. Thank you.

You see, thats the difference between you and me. I don't need the approval of some mystical being in the sky to sleep at night.

[Orruar]

But wouldn't that throw everything out of balance? Shouldn't we be seeing some physical effects of the enormous amounts of gravity that would be involved in that. Shouldn't our solar rotation be affected by such a thing?

Don't take this the wrong way, but you clearly have no concept of the scale of the universe and how physics in general works. If there was a giant black hole, let's say 1 trillion solar masses, sitting 150-250 million light years away, our solar system would continue going about its business without nary a care. Only once it got to within a few hundred light years would there start to be destabilizing effects. At 10^12 solar masses, it would need to be within 10^6 AU to exert as much gravity upon the Earth as our sun does. That's roughly 6 light years. Certainly our orbit would become unstable long before that, perhaps at several hundred light years. But I suppose the outer planets would be perturbed once it got within a few thousand light years. Still, a few thousand << 150-250 million.

[DeruIsLove]

Evolution was also a belief during the stone age. Its actually the second longest held belief system.

I almost got trolled with that one.

[Nihilist_santa]

This is a common misconception. The problem atheists near universally have, is the fact that the religious majority are using their faith to justify immoral decisions that directly impact the qualities of life of people around the world.

There is some irony here but I will ignore that. How do you decide that these decisions are immoral? You are acknowledging some absolute truth? If there is no God how can there be absolutes?

[Glenzig]

I almost got trolled with that one.

Not a troll. Its true. Do some serious research on the subject. Quit relying on textbooks for all your info.

[Rhuma7]

There is some irony here but I will ignore that. How do you decide that these decisions are immoral? You are acknowledging some absolute truth? If there is no God how can there be absolutes?

The same way an atheist enjoys a nice seasoned steak or a walk on the beach during the sunset.

The same way an atheist also doesn't like it when a mud puddle splashes up on your brand new shoes.

You don't need god to know what is good and bad, its called the golden rule.

Don't do things you don't want done to you.

[Nihilist_santa]

The same way an atheist enjoys a nice seasoned steak or a walk on the beach during the sunset.

The same way an atheist also doesn't like it when a mud puddle splashes up on your brand new shoes.

You don't need god to know what is good and bad, its called the golden rule.

Don't do things you don't want done to you.

If that atheist is a vegetarian aquaphobic dirt hippy he would hate it. Pfft relativism. :rolleyes:

[Nihilist_santa]

People always want to cite the golden rule without crediting the source on that one.

[Rhuma7]

People always want to cite the golden rule without crediting the source on that one.

You dont need a fucking source, you brain dead bible thumper lol

You walk outside and experience life itself not sitting in some pew listening to your pastor tell you how you should experience it!

[stonez138]

People always want to cite the golden rule without crediting the source on that one.

You mean Confucious "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."

or Epictitus "What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others."

or Socrates "Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others."

or there is the Buddhist version "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful."

[Glenzig]

You mean Confucious "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."

or Epictitus "What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others."

or Socrates "Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others."

or there is the Buddhist version "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful."

Saying don't hurt others isn't the same as saying treat everyone as you would like to be treated.

[Ikonoclastia]

Confirming that many Atheists are fanatics. I got banned from the Atheists forums for saying that you can't discount the existence of a god with science, that the two could potentially be related.

They banned me for "causing trouble" and moved my posts to Christian naughty corner which they call Fantasy Island lol.

I'm an atheist btw. What I was trying to say was with ongoing studies relating to our potentially being in a computerized simulator or multiple universes and our incomplete understanding of the universe, especially quantum mechanics, that you can't 100% say there is no god, though you can show lots of lots of evidence to suggest there is not one.

But even hinting to those Atheists that there could be something like a god got the same reaction that suggesting there was no god to a religious fanatic might get you :)

[stonez138]

Saying don't hurt others isn't the same as saying treat everyone as you would like to be treated.

Nice try troll.

[Glenzig]

Nice try troll.

So if I conned you out of your life savings, but never touched you, I would be following your versions of the golden rule. I didn't hurt you. But I also didn't treat you as I would want to be treated. So are they the same thing?

[stonez138]

keep trying.

[Glenzig]

No need.

[stonez138]

You're not going to convince me you're really dumb enough to believe they're only talking about physically hurting someone.

[Glenzig]

I'm telling you that the way it was said leaves it up to interpretation. I don't think anyone is actually that dumb. But there is a big difference between saying don't hurt anyone the way you wouldn't want to be hurt, and treat others as you would like to be treated. I could take absolutely no action at all toward you and not have hurt you. But treating others as we want to be treated is a proactive approach.

[Eliseus]

Confirming that many Atheists are fanatics. I got banned from the Atheists forums for saying that you can't discount the existence of a god with science, that the two could potentially be related.

They banned me for "causing trouble" and moved my posts to Christian naughty corner which they call Fantasy Island lol.

I'm an atheist btw. What I was trying to say was with ongoing studies relating to our potentially being in a computerized simulator or multiple universes and our incomplete understanding of the universe, especially quantum mechanics, that you can't 100% say there is no god, though you can show lots of lots of evidence to suggest there is not one.

But even hinting to those Atheists that there could be something like a god got the same reaction that suggesting there was no god to a religious fanatic might get you :)

Not trying to stir anything nor really care for sources, but what evidence suggests God doesn't exist? Besides people claiming because evil happens he doesn't exist or because science can "theorize" on something marvelous that God doesn't exist because if he did we wouldn't figure out how he works? More or less, trying to figure out what you mean by that comment.

[Ikonoclastia]

Not trying to stir anything nor really care for sources, but what evidence suggests God doesn't exist? Besides people claiming because evil happens he doesn't exist or because science can "theorize" on something marvelous that God doesn't exist because if he did we wouldn't figure out how he works? More or less, trying to figure out what you mean by that comment.
Well really the lack of evidence he does exist and the many discrepancies between what we know to be facts of science now and the things which the bible says.

[dreama1]

Confirming that many Atheists are fanatics. I got banned from the Atheists forums for saying that you can't discount the existence of a god with science, that the two could potentially be related.

They banned me for "causing trouble" and moved my posts to Christian naughty corner which they call Fantasy Island lol.

I'm an atheist btw. What I was trying to say was with ongoing studies relating to our potentially being in a computerized simulator or multiple universes and our incomplete understanding of the universe, especially quantum mechanics, that you can't 100% say there is no god, though you can show lots of lots of evidence to suggest there is not one.

But even hinting to those Atheists that there could be something like a god got the same reaction that suggesting there was no god to a religious fanatic might get you :)

Except it is ignorant. You can say the exact same thing for faeries, dragons or santa. People like to stay claiming that the possibility of something existing is equivalent to 'evidence' for that thing existing. Very unscientific indeed.

[dreama1]

By the way, morality is not universal, it is relative.

[Ikonoclastia]

Except it is ignorant. You can say the exact same thing for faeries, dragons or santa. People like to stay claiming that the possibility of something existing is equivalent to 'evidence' for that thing existing. Very unscientific indeed.
I disagree. You have to define what a 'god' is. If as some people suspect and there is some evidence to show its possible, that we are in a computer simulation, then the creator of that simulation would be akin to a god.

That we're ignorant of how its possible for a particle to spontaneously appear out of nowhere or to exist at different places at the same time which really goes against all our ideas of normal matter and reality shows us that we can't assume even more spectacular mysteries exist.

We still have no idea what and where dark matter and dark energy are and is? There are lots of mysteries still. Claiming "there is no god" without evidence of 'no god' or claiming "there is a god" without evidence of a god are the same. Ignorant of our limitations and lack of understanding of the universe.

You can have an opinion, but you cannot claim to have the knowledge just yet.

[Ikonoclastia]

I dont know 1 atheist who says WITHOUT A DOUBT 100% THERE IS NO GOD. This would instantly be knocked down and argued into oblivion by any other atheist.

Once again, you fucking morons need to learn basic definitions of words before you try to argue against them.

Atheist lack a belief in a god or gods because we see no evidence that supports these claims....this is not a declarative statement that THERE IS NO GOD.

I dont believe that atheist forum story either as it was told.
Its a true story, go read it on Atheists Australia, just google Zygote404, that was me before I got banned.

[dreama1]

I disagree. You have to define what a 'god' is. If as some people suspect and there is some evidence to show its possible, that we are in a computer simulation, then the creator of that simulation would be akin to a god.

That we're ignorant of how its possible for a particle to spontaneously appear out of nowhere or to exist at different places at the same time which really goes against all our ideas of normal matter and reality shows us that we can't assume even more spectacular mysteries exist.

We still have no idea what and where dark matter and dark energy are and is? There are lots of mysteries still. Claiming "there is no god" without evidence of 'no god' or claiming "there is a god" without evidence of a god are the same. Ignorant of our limitations and lack of understanding of the universe.

You can have an opinion, but you cannot claim to have the knowledge just yet.

The point is you cannot, as you are claiming, use the possibility of something existing as evidence for that existing. The null hypothesis in society which is completely fucking retarded is that there is a god. There is no supernatural phenomenon, just supernatural interpretations of phenomenon, i.e., including 'god'.

[Eliseus]

Well really the lack of evidence he does exist and the many discrepancies between what we know to be facts of science now and the things which the bible says.

Nah, evidence he does exist =/ evidence he doesn't exist. Discrepancies are only there because people who's only goal in life are to try and prove he doesn't exist grasp at straws or un-relevant things (hence one of my earlier posts someone commented on). Interesting though, they just discovered a tomb in Israel I think it was that has a timeline exact with the Bible of when the King lived, and yet there is still people yelling heresy and calling it fake.

Point it, there isn't any credible evidence that suggests he doesn't exist. The same could really be said for the other side, though, I think more theoretical ideas lean towards the idea that a God does exist. For example, the simulation idea you presented.

[Eliseus]

The point is you cannot, as you are claiming, use the possibility of something existing as evidence for that existing. The null hypothesis in society which is completely fucking retarded is that there is a god. There is no supernatural phenomenon, just supernatural interpretations of phenomenon, i.e., including 'god'.

What the fuck are you talking about. Most the things we believe in this world are base of what you just mentioned. Look at most our scientific studies are all theories, not fact.

[abacab-bansdontwork]

I hate atheists because I am a nihilist, and they create fake ethical codes that mirror that of religion itself and attempt to ram it down everyone's collective throat... In short atheists are just as preachy as Christians, just as arrogant as Jews, just as prone to bullshit as Muslims etc. would rather deal with a hindu.

Also they all look like this:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/ddfc707e5dd85806b3841757f47c2a4c/tumblr_mshic0XhRo1rtg1hvo4_r1_1280.png

[dreama1]

What the fuck are you talking about. Most the things we believe in this world are base of what you just mentioned. Look at most our scientific studies are all theories, not fact.


Ok, you don't know science, so please stop talking.

[Eliseus]

Simulation theory being accurate would destroy every single religion that has ever been conceived by man.

You dont actually think that when people argue that there isnt evidence that gods exist that they are including the creator of the simulation do you? I would say a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of .1% of the world even knows about this theory.

You have to argue against known and accepted definitions of words and what they mean colloquially or you are just publicly mentally masturbating to show people how "open minded" you are.


Not really, maybe it is part of the simulation to create many religions that are all correct to see the outcome! lol!

[dreama1]

On what planet, in what solar system and in which galaxy would locking a child in a basement and torturing it for decades ever be considered "moral"?


Go back 300 years, hell go to some countries right now.


Science can prove with empirical evidence what is good for human well being.


got prof?

There is no 'science of morality.' That is complete bullshit. Morality is largely a social phenomenon with some biological underpinnings.


If you dont define human morality as "what can maximize human freedom and minimize human suffering" then you are not defining morality correctly and there is no need to argue with you.
.

"what can maximize human freedom and minimize human suffering" is the most absurd & vague statement I have ever heard in my life. Let me guess, sam harris?

[dreama1]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence BUT more importantly it is not evidence of presence, either.

[Lojik]

If I name my son God would people still debate his existence?

[Ikonoclastia]

Go back 300 years, hell go to some countries right now.



got prof?

There is no 'science of morality.' That is complete bullshit. Morality is largely a social phenomenon with some biological underpinnings.



"what can maximize human freedom and minimize human suffering" is the most absurd & vague statement I have ever heard in my life. Let me guess, sam harris?
If it was good for our species survival to burn every 3rd baby alive then our society would have evolved to burn every 3rd baby alive.

Any detractors would have long ago been bred out of the gene pool as they suffered from the negative effects of not burning.

In big cities we walk past families and individuals all the time who often starve or freeze to death on the streets.

Both are horrid things. One you accept as moral one you wouldn't. Morality is fickle like human kindness.

[Emsee]

Bottom line is you put invisible lines in your head and are the premise of what is wrong with this world. Who gives a fuck what you think is right or wrong. You are not nor will ever be the epitome nor truth of what is or what will ever be.

Way to reach on the obscure lines of morality, I doubt anyone disagrees with that fact. You are nothing more than the disdained minority claiming victim rhetoric by nothing more than hyperbole indications, that have very little to do with anything that could be viewed as truth, anywhere.

[Rhuma7]

I would like to remind those in this thread that...You wouldn't argue micro-economics with a 2 year old because they dont have the mental capacity to give an educated response nor should you expect one.

Arguing with religious folk would fall under the same analogy and you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying.

Religious people are brought up on it and have been fed it since before they could even read a bedtime story, never even mind the bible.

You will NEVER, EVER change their way of thinking.

[Emsee]

Meaningless white noise

Congratulations on taking an entire argument and refuting with absolutely zero substance. This is your issue Lron. You post assanine content without a shred of thought. This is why you stick to self narcassistic dipshit self-centered content. And is the fact that why you are nothing short of a fucking joke.

[Rhuma7]

I was brought up on it but i broke free from the chains of religion, I have also been a catalyst to many friends exile from theirs.

So saying I will never ever change someones way of thinking is empirically and categorically false.

You did that on your own sir. Nobody changed your mind, at least I would assume so.

Christopher Hitchins was quite a guy though, so you never know.

[Ikonoclastia]

I would like to remind those in this thread that...You wouldn't argue micro-economics with a 2 year old because they dont have the mental capacity to give an educated response nor should you expect one.

Arguing with religious folk would fall under the same analogy and you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying.

Religious people are brought up on it and have been fed it since before they could even read a bedtime story, never even mind the bible.

You will NEVER, EVER change their way of thinking.

I was bought up going to church (Mormon) and all that crap, saying grace, praying, got baptised. When I got older I thought logically about god and decided it was more than likely not true. I think a lot of people make that decision as well. There is hope :)

[Emsee]

My rebuttals can't be misdirected, regardless of ad hominem attacks.

[Emsee]

Look at my retort, you cannot deter the facts that you are indeed a narcissist, and a self-important joke.

Why won't you date me bro?

[Emsee]

I never date self-righteous village idiots, sorry.

[Rhuma7]

a/s/l

/thread

[Emsee]

Reminds me of The Jerky Boy's.

[Eliseus]

I would like to remind those in this thread that...You wouldn't argue micro-economics with a 2 year old because they dont have the mental capacity to give an educated response nor should you expect one.

Arguing with religious folk would fall under the same analogy and you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying.

Religious people are brought up on it and have been fed it since before they could even read a bedtime story, never even mind the bible.

You will NEVER, EVER change their way of thinking.

Hmmm I wonder why that is derp derp derp

Don't try and hide your ignorance/arrogance with comments that try and degrade the intelligence of people that believe in something. You are like so many other people in this thread that chime in to give your 2cents about how much more superior you guys are then those that believe in something yet you don't even try to sound somewhat educated nor do anything to refute any points except trying to belittle someone in an attempt to make yourself better. The hypocrisy of your post is amusing though, I give you that.

[Eliseus]

I was bought up going to church (Mormon) and all that crap, saying grace, praying, got baptised. When I got older I thought logically about god and decided it was more than likely not true. I think a lot of people make that decision as well. There is hope :)

I'm Mormon, and have given a million and 1 logical reasons without once touching upon the Mormon religion to the existence of a higher being, and I guarantee your "logic" thoughts aren't logic, and that reasoning is because of previous posts from you already that weren't logical. If you are happy though good for you, but don't try and bring others done with your ill-informed logic, that's all that matters.

Inb4 Mormon jokes

[Rhuma7]

Hmmm I wonder why that is derp derp derp

Don't try and hide your ignorance/arrogance with comments that try and degrade the intelligence of people that believe in something. You are like so many other people in this thread that chime in to give your 2cents about how much more superior you guys are then those that believe in something yet you don't even try to sound somewhat educated nor do anything to refute any points except trying to belittle someone in an attempt to make yourself better. The hypocrisy of your post is amusing though, I give you that.

Struck a nerve, did I?

[Eliseus]

Struck a nerve, did I?

Sure

[Rhuma7]

It's really hard to think someone with a belief in any religion is intelligent. It's really quite ignorant to believe in any religion.

If you feel there's a god, the only real intelligent belief is to be atheist because, well, there's quite a lot of religions in the world and the odds that you just happen to pick the right one is quite, arrogant.

You believe what you believe because you're here and their there. You're in the same boat as those suicide bombing jihad nutjobs in the middle east all thinking you're following the right delusion because you can't accept you're nobody and you're always going to be a nobody. No higher power gives a shit if you open a door for someone or escort grandma across the street or you do/dont fuck your sister.

You keep praying and believing brother because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you do or dont.

[Eliseus]

Id be a mormon if polygamy was still a dominant tenant of the religion but i heard most contemporary mormon churches do not teach this great philosophy.

Lol, well, yes, Mormons don't practice that anymore, and no you wouldn't. One wife is hard enough to deal with why would you want more! haha

[Eliseus]

It's really hard to think someone with a belief in any religion is intelligent. It's really quite ignorant to believe in any religion.

If you feel there's a god, the only real intelligent belief is to be atheist because, well, there's quite a lot of religions in the world and the odds that you just happen to pick the right one is quite, arrogant.

You believe what you believe because you're here and their there. You're in the same boat as those suicide bombing jihad nutjobs in the middle east all thinking you're following the right delusion because you can't accept you're nobody and you're always going to be a nobody. No higher power gives a shit if you open a door for someone or escort grandma across the street or you do/dont fuck your sister.

You keep praying and believing brother because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you do or dont.

Aww I see, you don't think God exists because why would such a superior being waste any time on us, such a pathetic race, because nothing good has ever happened in your pathetic waste of space self on this Earth because you are crap and keep making yourself crappier and if he gave a crap about us he would dig you out of the worthless hole you dug yourself in and keep digging bigger and bigger?

If God exists, you don't know how he works, so don't sit here and assume you do. Don't you assume you do and don't know what I believe.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, you are right, because I do good everyday and pray in hopes for answers to be prayed. Thank God that I don't have a life like yours.

[abacab-bansdontwork]

Lol, well, yes, Mormons don't practice that anymore, and no you wouldn't. One wife is hard enough to deal with why would you want more! haha

>Implying polygamists don't beat their wives into submission or greatly restrict what they can do.

Yeah, I could see multiple wives being bad if they were overly opinionated, ambitious and won't put up with bullshit (I.E will straight walk out on you for being a douche); but most wives in polygamist marriages are straight up doormats, and when they're not busy popping out their n-teenth kid or doing laborious housework they simply read scripture that reinforces the idea that men are completely superior to them and their only purpose is to bear children.

[abacab-bansdontwork]

Then again polygamists don't seek out educated, opinionated, career-oriented women, they seek out young women with self-esteem issues and no real life goals outside child rearing.

[Eliseus]

Not defending polygamist, but don't group up 1 bad apple with the rest, there is like 100s of different polygamist groups, idk what they believe, but it isn't affiliated with the Mormon church at all. I too have read 1 random polygamist article in the news every few years. I'm more worried about reading about your neighbors preying on young women than some polygamist plot to take over all the young women in this world.

[Eliseus]

Well I do know what they believe, but they all twist original doctrine of the church to support their wants to continue polygamy, but it is all different also, if that makes any sense.

[Glenzig]

Basic Atheist argument against religion= You're so stupid. Do you live in the stone age? I guess you just don't comprehend science.
Yet they want to call religious minded people self righteous and bigoted.

[Rellapse40]

who cares

[Glenzig]

who cares

Everyone in the world has a stance on this issue. What do you mean who cares?

[Koota]

Rellapse is habitually spewing dumb shit, don't mind him. Give him his helmet and continue about your day.

[Rellapse40]

Everyone in the world has a stance on this issue. What do you mean who cares?

not everyone only the morans

[Glenzig]

not everyone only the morans

See you have a stance on the subject too. Good for you.

[Rellapse40]

my stance is























































youre dumb

[Whirled]

If this wasn't R&F I'd say "No one should be looking down upon another..."
...but I'll just leave this stuff here & hope others put it to good personal use =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bznccrJeyw4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_dtRIf0rGY

Faith in religion is also is a personal thing. Either you have it or you don't.
Tolerance for other peoples choices in life (<=religion too) is similar to compassion for individuals. Whether they choose to indulge in promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners (<= in a consequence free environment Austin?) while snorting crank off the hood of a cop car ...or... the ones that are donating their time to work soup kitchens/food banks to help feed homeless, clothe the poor, love all of their neighbors and all the other good teachings from many of these good books.

[Abbot]

SPOILERS for any side of this argument.

Everyone dies.

I'll give it more thought if anyone ever holds onto their consciousness after their electrochemical response ceases.

[Glenzig]

If this wasn't R&F I'd say "No one should be looking down upon another..."
...but I'll just leave this stuff here & hope others put it to good personal use =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bznccrJeyw4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_dtRIf0rGY

Faith in religion is also is a personal thing. Either you have it or you don't.
Tolerance for other peoples choices in life (<=religion too) is similar to compassion for individuals. Whether they choose to indulge in promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners (<= in a consequence free environment Austin?) while snorting crank off the hood of a cop car ...or... the ones that are donating their time to work soup kitchens/food banks to help feed homeless, clothe the poor, love all of their neighbors and all the other good teachings from many of these good books.

I absolutely agree. We are all free moral agents, and as such we all have the right to believe anything we want. We also have the right to live however we want within the law. Bt I'm sure you will agree that just because we are able to make whatever choice we want, doesn't mean that we will always make the correct one, or that there will be no negative consequences to our choices. But yes, I agree with your sentiment.

[Shamalam]

Hate to break it to you, but the belief in Christ in the majority, and it does help me sleep at night. Thank you.

And no, I'm not presenting anything that has to be disproved, read my original post in this thread and you will see what I'm saying, I'm not saying "GOD EXISTS BELIEVE ME"m even though he does, I was merely pointing out an instance that is common among most atheists (I say most, because every single one I've run across base a lot of their thought process off science, but I'm assuming not all), and the absurdity behind it.

Thank you though for providing your 2cents and showing your arrogance/ignorance by ending with a comment that basically shows your knowledge being the superior knowledge. I'm actually pretty fascinated with people believes, whether it is not with what I believe or it is what I believe. I like to see how people think and their though process, and enjoy this convo quiet bit. The least you could do is post some constructive response rather acting you won some kind of argument that doesn't exist by tell me you hope I sleep better at night.

lol, defensive much, are we? :)

If your faith actually helps you fall asleep at night, I'm happy for you. Seriously. The world is really not that scary, but if some invisible being in the sky makes you feel better, that's great, keep it up. We all deserve to be happy and content with our short time on this planet.

Second, there are 2 billion christians on the planet and 7 billion people in total. There far more non-christians on the planet than there are christians. You are not in the majority, this is a fact. I'm not interested in debating facts with you.

I'm also not trying to "show that my knowledge is the superior knowledge." I'm trying to explain that my position is based on a lack of knowledge, which is exactly how the scientific method works. You know, the same scientific method that has resulted in all the advances and breakthroughs that make it possible for me to even type this message to you. If someone postulates that a thing exists or operates in a certain way, the burden of proof is on them to offer up evidence to support their position. It does not fall on the shoulders of everyone else to DISPROVE it, as you seem to think.

I'm not even completely discounting the possibility that you could be right! I just choose to believe in the simplest possible explanation behind our existence here, and that doesn't include a magical dude in the sky with some crazy master plan. It does include simple, verifiable, widely agreed upon physical and chemical processes that weren't pulled from a 2000-year-old book. That said, maybe it WAS god (or whoever) who designed those processes specifically so that we would end up where we are now. Nobody can really say with 100% certainty, and anyone who claims to know "the absolute truth" is full of shit. My position is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you can provide some, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. It would certainly make things a lot simpler.

[Daldolma]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

Exprain.

anyone who goes to the trouble of labeling themselves an atheist is a zealot. zealots are annoying as fuck.

h2h

[Champion_Standing]

Because most outspoken Atheists are just as ignorant, hateful and bigoted as the people they claim to despise.

[Glenzig]

Any claim about our origins or purpose is an extraordinary claim. That includes the theory of evolution. There would have to be undeniable proof of the evolutionary process in order for it to be universally accepted as true. There would have to be undeniable evidence that the origins of the universe are as described by evolutionary scientists. There is no such evidence. There will always be those in favor of a anti God theory of life. There always have been. And there will always be those with with a pro God theory of life. There always have been. But one thing that cannot be debated is that everything that exists in the physical universe has to have had a first cause. There is no getting around that.

[Whirled]

Dr. Hans Reinhardt (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001703/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Some cause must have created all this, but what caused that cause?

[Rhuma7]

But one thing that cannot be debated is that everything that exists in the physical universe has to have had a first cause. There is no getting around that.

Unless, well, there *was* such a thing that spontaneously created basic atomic particles.

The problem is you're trying to find out what color a dinosaur was with 65 million old bones except its more of an astronomical number if even infinite, maybe if we had the creation of space in a little fish tank, science would have figured this out a long time ago but well, unfortunately thats not the case.

Throwing your hands up and being "god dunnit!" is a scapegoat for not knowing.

Who created god? Who created the creator of god? Who created the creator of the creator of god? X Infinite.

It's just not the answer. In all probability, we will never know. The laws of physics and how things work are based on gravity and when that is no longer the case, things change, completely.

I've also noticed that there are a lot of people who don't really even know the definition of Atheist vs Agnostic and their trying to debate the existance of god with an Atheist. You're just fucking dumb.

[Rhuma7]

65 million year old bones

[Daldolma]

Any claim about our origins or purpose is an extraordinary claim. That includes the theory of evolution. There would have to be undeniable proof of the evolutionary process in order for it to be universally accepted as true. There would have to be undeniable evidence that the origins of the universe are as described by evolutionary scientists. There is no such evidence. There will always be those in favor of a anti God theory of life. There always have been. And there will always be those with with a pro God theory of life. There always have been. But one thing that cannot be debated is that everything that exists in the physical universe has to have had a first cause. There is no getting around that.

of course there is. there is getting around everything.

we don't know dick about the origins of the universe or the origins of life. we don't know how time works, either. our entire planet is smaller than a grain of sand in the grand scheme of the universe, which we date to ~14 billion years. we're infinitesimal, and we've been here for an infinitesimal period of time. modern science has existed for what? less than 100 years? lol. we can't rule out anything at all.

we haven't even managed to get humans to the nearest planet. we haven't even discovered every type of life form on our own planet. hell, we don't even know all the details of what our own brains do.

we're ignorant as fuck. believing in a deity is no more absurd than believing anything else. we could all be a part of an elaborate computer simulation. or worse, we could all be a part of a really simple computer simulation.

believe what you want. people who try to convince you otherwise are ignorant of their own ignorance

[Glenzig]

Unless, well, there *was* such a thing that spontaneously created basic atomic particles.


Throwing your hands up and being "god dunnit!" is a scapegoat for not knowing.

Who created god? Who created the creator of god? Who created the creator of the creator of god? X Infinite.

Yeah that was kind of the point of my post. There has to be a force behind the start of the universe. Its undeniable. You can try to spin it however you want and pretend that saying it was a big bang removes an external force and a first cause, but it doesn't.
Also, why would belief in God lead to a lack of knowledge. You can still learn about anything you want and believe in God. And Atheists and Agnostics say "I don't know, its just how it is, maybe we'll never know" all the time. That doesn't make them any less smart.

[Versch]

[QUOTE=Glenzig;1459707]
Also, why would belief in God lead to a lack of knowledge.QUOTE]

Because, that is the end for a lot of people. God did it and that is final. Put all your faith in that and never question it.

Religion and science are mutually exclusive realms of thought. One is faith based and one is fact based. The quicker people understand this, the sooner these silly debates will go away.

[Shamalam]

There has to be a force behind the start of the universe. Its undeniable.

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

[Glenzig]

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

You'll just have to live with the fact that you're wrong. Other than that. Nothing.

[Daldolma]

[QUOTE=Glenzig;1459707]
Also, why would belief in God lead to a lack of knowledge.QUOTE]

Because, that is the end for a lot of people. God did it and that is final. Put all your faith in that and never question it.

Religion and science are mutually exclusive realms of thought. One is faith based and one is fact based. The quicker people understand this, the sooner these silly debates will go away.

not really true. a lot of science begins with faith. not many scientists set out to prove a hypothesis they don't believe in. in fact, many of the underlying premises of modern science sound in belief. for example, much of our space program has been influenced by a search for extraterrestrial lifeforms. we have no compelling reason to believe they exist. but many scientists believe they do, and so we hypothesize about everything from what they would look like to what they would want to where we may find them.

you can treat the idea of a supreme deity as a scientific hypothesis, just as much as you can treat extraterrestrial life or the big bang as one. it's just so far removed from anything we can prove that it frustrates the scientific process

[Nihilist_santa]

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

How rational and scientific of you to come to such a conclusion. Materialism and moral relativity are what lead you to believe that if you deny something it negates the truth of it?

Even in scientific terms there would have to be a force/first cause for something to come from nothing essentially which is a huge leap in logic. It is absolutely absurd for a person to conclude that the universe and all of creation has design and purpose but it is perfectly rational to assume that everything that exist sprang from nothing and self organized itself into such a way as to make everything work in harmony. :rolleyes:

[Ahldagor]

so much talk of logic without it being mentioned that logic is the rule of non contradiction within rhetoric. rhetoric is a method of persuasion that uses logical arguments in order to establish an authority over the convinced. you're all wanting that power of authority like good god seekers.

[Rhuma7]

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

Who created god? Who created the creator of god? Who created the creator of the creator of god? X Infinite.


There has to be a force behind the start of the universe. Its undeniable.

Upon reading this thought process it would actually be logical that in fact there was nothing and nothing created itself. Now, as a logical critical thinking minded, Agnostic as myself would have to believe that just can't be possible but with that in mind, that is clearly the only way anything could be possible, God or no god.

The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light from the big bang and something was festering in the center of the universe, expanding and contracting til its inevitable explosion.

[Versch]

[QUOTE=Versch;1459713]

not really true. a lot of science begins with faith. not many scientists set out to prove a hypothesis they don't believe in. in fact, many of the underlying premises of modern science sound in belief. for example, much of our space program has been influenced by a search for extraterrestrial lifeforms. we have no compelling reason to believe they exist. but many scientists believe they do, and so we hypothesize about everything from what they would look like to what they would want to where we may find them.

you can treat the idea of a supreme deity as a scientific hypothesis, just as much as you can treat extraterrestrial life or the big bang as one. it's just so far removed from anything we can prove that it frustrates the scientific process

Would you not credit that to something more along the lines of probability and statistics then? Considering what we know about our world and the sheer vastness of the universe, probability would say that other worlds like ours must exist.

I have no qualms with the idea of a supreme being, but I do take issue with humans believing that it would solely watch our world and treat our species special. That's some seriously egotistic line of thinking.

[Glenzig]

Because, that is the end for a lot of people. God did it and that is final. Put all your faith in that and never question it.

Religion and science are mutually exclusive realms of thought. One is faith based and one is fact based. The quicker people understand this, the sooner these silly debates will go away.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Trust me I've met plenty of those type of people. Its really a shame. But I have also met plenty of people who were very staunch in their belief in evolution who couldn't explain even the most basic of the scientific principals behind it. Couldn't co.e up with a reason beyond, "well its just the best answer and if you don't believe it you're holding yourself back." So blind faith goes both ways in my experience.

[Versch]

Upon reading this thought process it would actually be logical that in fact there was nothing and nothing created itself. Now, as a logical critical thinking minded, Agnostic as myself would have to believe that just can't be possible but with that in mind, that is clearly the only way anything could be possible, God or no god.

The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light from the big bang and something was festering in the center of the universe, expanding and contracting til its inevitable explosion.

I'm of the opinion that we're limited by our own minds. The concept of beginning and end is so ingrained in everything we know, that that is all we know and we cannot escape that convention. The universe may not even be contained by a "beginning" or "end". Of course, now we're venturing into some theoretical crap.

[Shamalam]

You'll just have to live with the fact that you're wrong. Other than that. Nothing.

I can totally live with that! It's actually be working out pretty splendidly so far!

[Shamalam]

inb4 been*

[Glenzig]

I can totally live with that! It's actually be working out pretty splendidly so far!

Good for you. I'm not here to judge.

[Nihilist_santa]

so much talk of logic without it being mentioned that logic is the rule of non contradiction within rhetoric. rhetoric is a method of persuasion that uses logical arguments in order to establish an authority over the convinced. you're all wanting that power of authority like good god seekers.

The balls on this one. Read your own statement then get back to us.

[Ahldagor]

The balls on this one. Read your own statement then get back to us.

"language is the house of being" mein freund

[Shamalam]

Good for you. I'm not here to judge.

You were here to judge my beliefs about the origin of the universe, though? You sound pretty confident that I'm wrong.

[Glenzig]

You were here to judge my beliefs about the origin of the universe, though? You sound pretty confident that I'm wrong.

That's not a judgment on you. Its just a fact that you were wrong. Nothing personal. We're all wrong quite often. Don't take it so hard.

[Daldolma]

Would you not credit that to something more along the lines of probability and statistics then? Considering what we know about our world and the sheer vastness of the universe, probability would say that other worlds like ours must exist.

I have no qualms with the idea of a supreme being, but I do take issue with humans believing that it would solely watch our world and treat our species special. That's some seriously egotistic line of thinking.

i don't think it can be attributed to statistics, no. statistically speaking, the ultimate variable is what percentage of planets life can develop on. since we're the only one we know of, any estimation is based on guesswork that earth is not extraordinary. we may be extraordinary, we may not be. until we find life on another planet, we really can't implement any kind of statistical model. it's all just belief.

as for the notion that a deity is interested in our world exclusively, i don't know if that's necessarily a fundamental tenet of religion. i'll have to admit that i'm not particularly well-versed in the scripture of every major religion, but i don't know of any verses that specify earth as a deity's sole interest. that seems like a bit of a straw man argument to me. these scriptures were all written upwards of 1400 years ago. even if you concede that the deity is real and the scripture is his divine communication with man, the vocabulary didn't even exist to describe things like extraterrestrials to people of 2000 years ago

[Shamalam]

That's not a judgment on you. Its just a fact that you were wrong. Nothing personal. We're all wrong quite often. Don't take it so hard.

You keep using this word, "fact." I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Rhuma7]

I'll be the crazy person to first suggest the human species was planted on earth by other worldly people.
We know the universe is gigantic and is measured in light years rather than days... to think An advanced species sent their biological future in search of habitable planets to continue advancement isnt that crazy.

Its far less expensive in resources to send a few reproducing animals to many different ends of the universe than a uss enterprise to one destination, considering the odds of failure.

its not too far fetched to believe the human species wasn't originally from earth considering our surrounding species and vastly advanced molecular structure.

Lol

[Glenzig]

I'll be the crazy person to first suggest the human species was planted on earth by other worldly people.
We know the universe is gigantic and is measured in light years rather than days... to think An advanced species sent their biological future in search of habitable planets to continue advancement isnt that crazy.

Its far less expensive in resources to send a few reproducing animals to many different ends of the universe than a uss enterprise to one destination, considering the odds of failure.

its not too far fetched to believe the human species wasn't originally from earth considering our surrounding species and vastly advanced molecular structure.

Lol

Yeah. No. That's extremely far fetched and hinges on what we don't or can't k ow rather than what we do know. So no.

[Shamalam]

I'll be the crazy person to first suggest the human species was planted on earth by other worldly people.
We know the universe is gigantic and is measured in light years rather than days... to think An advanced species sent their biological future in search of habitable planets to continue advancement isnt that crazy.

Its far less expensive in resources to send a few reproducing animals to many different ends of the universe than a uss enterprise to one destination, considering the odds of failure.

its not too far fetched to believe the human species wasn't originally from earth considering our surrounding species and vastly advanced molecular structure.

Lol

Totally. There is exactly as much evidence supporting this theory as there is supporting the theory of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god ruling over us all. I like it.

[Shamalam]

Yeah. No. That's extremely far fetched and hinges on what we don't or can't k ow rather than what we do know. So no.

Who are you to judge? What makes your theory better than his? Still waiting on some evidence either way.

[Rhuma7]

I mean if we really wanted to put people on a one way trip to the ends of the universe we could do it, even with todays propulsion systems. It just wouldn't be those peoples lifetimes.

A few genetically modified plants that produce 2x the oxygen as the carbon Dioxide it intakes to sustain a biome in which the vessels inhabitants could breath indefinitely with genetically modified plants that produce food faster than the inhabitants could eat combined with a way of recycling water/urine(totally out of my comfort zone on this one) to remain hydrated. Within a monstrous amount of time, without the passengers killing themselves before the destination, we could colonize a planet in another "goldilocks" zone and set themselves up to have this same conversation about god and the creation of the universe in another billion years.

^ yup lol

[Whirled]

I mean if we really wanted to put people on a one way trip to the ends of the universe we could do it, even with todays propulsion systems. It just wouldn't be those peoples lifetimes.

A few genetically modified plants that produce 2x the oxygen as the carbon Dioxide it intakes to sustain a biome in which the vessels inhabitants could breath indefinitely with genetically modified plants that produce food faster than the inhabitants could eat combined with a way of recycling water/urine(totally out of my comfort zone on this one) to remain hydrated. Within a monstrous amount of time, without the passengers killing themselves before the destination, we could colonize a planet in another "goldilocks" zone and set themselves up to have this same conversation about god and the creation of the universe in another billion years.

^ yup lol

Sounds like the BoB's ( <= born on board) from the game Marathon bitd*

[Glenzig]

Who are you to judge? What makes your theory better than his? Still waiting on some evidence either way.

I didn't present a theory. I presented a fact. There is always a force behind the beginning of our universe. Every theory has one. That's a fact.

[Daldolma]

I mean if we really wanted to put people on a one way trip to the ends of the universe we could do it, even with todays propulsion systems. It just wouldn't be those peoples lifetimes.

A few genetically modified plants that produce 2x the oxygen as the carbon Dioxide it intakes to sustain a biome in which the vessels inhabitants could breath indefinitely with genetically modified plants that produce food faster than the inhabitants could eat combined with a way of recycling water/urine(totally out of my comfort zone on this one) to remain hydrated. Within a monstrous amount of time, without the passengers killing themselves before the destination, we could colonize a planet in another "goldilocks" zone and set themselves up to have this same conversation about god and the creation of the universe in another billion years.

^ yup lol

so what you're saying is that vastly superior, infinitely more advanced lifeforms could give rise to life in their image on a new planet?

and you're using that to prove what point, exactly?

[myriverse]

Its an unorganized religion
Wrong. It's the lack of religion.

[Rhuma7]

so what you're saying is that vastly superior, infinitely more advanced lifeforms could give rise to life in their image on a new planet?

and you're using that to prove what point, exactly?

There was no point, stop looking for a fight. At the very most its a fabricated theory that could be possible with no scientific study or evidence to back it up...

[Glenzig]

Wrong. It's the lack of religion.

There is no such thing as a lack of religion. We were made with a strong urge to worship something higher than ourselves. It may not be religion in the strictest sense of the word. But its definitely belief system that is religious in nature. Try holding a different view than your atheist college professor, even if you are also atheist, and you will be treated just like you would in a religious setting. Absence of religion is impossible for humans. Not going to happen.

[r00t]

because atheists are annoying as fuck

[Ahldagor]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/df/dffbb0d76d2693f852b4973426e245b6f8c38abf7ab52a5970 2c5ba82eea4ead.jpg

[Daldolma]

There was no point, stop looking for a fight. At the very most its a fabricated theory that could be possible with no scientific study or evidence to back it up...

not looking for a fight, just showing you how your own hypothetical is basically an affirmation of the foundations of religion that many atheists find so ridiculous

[Orruar]

There is no such thing as a lack of religion. We were made with a strong urge to worship something higher than ourselves. It may not be religion in the strictest sense of the word. But its definitely belief system that is religious in nature. Try holding a different view than your atheist college professor, even if you are also atheist, and you will be treated just like you would in a religious setting. Absence of religion is impossible for humans. Not going to happen.

My guess is that you have never been in the presence of a college professor, or you wouldn't say something so stupid. I have never once felt like I was in a religious setting and I've had a great many different views than my professors.

[Hastley]

My guess is that you have never been in the presence of a college professor, or you wouldn't say something so stupid. I have never once felt like I was in a religious setting and I've had a great many different views than my professors.

lol

[jarshale]

*tips fedora*

[Shamalam]

An open letter to all non-atheists in this thread:

Out of the hundreds of religions across the world, YOU were born in to the right one. How fortunate!

Out of the millions of gods over the course of human history, YOU chose the right one to worship. You're so fucking smart!

Out of the infinite amount of possible outcomes after death, YOU know exactly what's going to happen, because Jesus said so. If only we could all be so enlightened!

Basically, you've got it all figured out. Must feel pretty great! Good for you! :)

[stonez138]

It should be abundantly clear by now Glenzig is just trolling. He even admited earlier that nobody would be stupid enough to believe something that he himself was trying to pass off as a serious statement.

[Hastley]

An open letter to all non-atheists in this thread:

Out of the hundreds of religions across the world, YOU were born in to the right one. How fortunate!

Out of the millions of gods over the course of human history, YOU chose the right one to worship. You're so fucking smart!

Out of the infinite amount of possible outcomes after death, YOU know exactly what's going to happen, because Jesus said so. If only we could all be so enlightened!

Basically, you've got it all figured out. Must feel pretty great! Good for you! :)

are you a girl IRL?

[Shamalam]

Does it matter?

[Hastley]

Does it matter?

only because i would marry you if so? you expressed something so hilariously and so insightfully (much like i do in the real world) that we could be soul mates?

[Shamalam]

Unfortunately for you I have a penis. We can still be soul mates though. <3

[Glenzig]

It should be abundantly clear by now Glenzig is just trolling. He even admited earlier that nobody would be stupid enough to believe something that he himself was trying to pass off as a serious statement.

Yeah that's what happened. Its not called hyperbole.

[Hastley]

Unfortunately for you I have a penis. We can still be soul mates though. <3

no, no we cannot. we can grab a beer though, and split the check

[Glenzig]

My guess is that you have never been in the presence of a college professor, or you wouldn't say something so stupid. I have never once felt like I was in a religious setting and I've had a great many different views than my professors.

No I have. And I've talked with numerous people that have had the exact experience I was talking about. I'm sure everyone's experience is different, but it certainly happens more than most would like to admit.

[Hastley]

No I have. And I've talked with numerous people that have had the exact experience I was talking about. I'm sure everyone's experience is different, but it certainly happens more than most would like to admit.

post pictures of diploma and or transcripts

[Glenzig]

post pictures of diploma and or transcripts

Why? What would that prove? I can pull pics of.those off the net and PhotoShop them to say that I'm the master of the universe. Plus I didn't say that it happened to me. I said that I know of quite a few people that it has happened to.

[Hastley]

Why? What would that prove? I can pull pics of.those off the net and PhotoShop them to say that I'm the master of the universe. Plus I didn't say that it happened to me. I said that I know of quite a few people that it has happened to.

lets say the reason is because you have 260 posts on an emulated elf simulator starting in march 2014. it would prove nothing beyond your own credentials, which would validate you as someone worth responding to, which increasingly seems like a bad idea

[Rhuma7]

Why? What would that prove? I can pull pics of.those off the net and PhotoShop them to say that I'm the master of the universe. Plus I didn't say that it happened to me. I said that I know of quite a few people that it has happened to.

I know you're trolling but what fun is it to just sit back and be all knowing? :P

People are born into a socially imposed religious environment, from the currency we use to not going down a single street without a cross/church.

In my city alone there are 2,500 churches.

[Glenzig]

I know you're trolling but what fun is it to just sit back and be all knowing? :P

People are born into a socially imposed religious environment, from the currency we use to not going down a single street without a cross/church.

In my city alone there are 2,500 churches.

That has nothing to do with any of my posts. But thank you I guess.

[Glenzig]

lets say the reason is because you have 260 posts on an emulated elf simulator starting in march 2014. it would prove nothing beyond your own credentials, which would validate you as someone worth responding to, which increasingly seems like a bad idea

I didn't know we all had to post our credentials in order to state a personal belief on a forum. When did that start?

[Rhuma7]

That has nothing to do with any of my posts. But thank you I guess.

There is no such thing as a lack of religion. We were made with a strong urge to worship something higher than ourselves. It may not be religion in the strictest sense of the word. But its definitely belief system that is religious in nature. Try holding a different view than your atheist college professor, even if you are also atheist, and you will be treated just like you would in a religious setting. Absence of religion is impossible for humans. Not going to happen.

[Rhuma7]

An interesting fact, is there are more churches in my state than there are billboards.

but... We are "born" with the desire to worship bullshit. Much like we are "born" to eat fast food 7 days a week, amirite!?

[Hastley]

I didn't know we all had to post our credentials in order to state a personal belief on a forum. When did that start?

today, plus i hate your nacho libre avatar

[Glenzig]

today, plus i hate your nacho libre avatar

"Say that to my face!"

[Glenzig]

An interesting fact, is there are more churches in my state than there are billboards.

but... We are "born" with the desire to worship bullshit. Much like we are "born" to eat fast food 7 days a week, amirite!?

Well we are born to eat 7 days a week. That is more to the point of my post.

[Hastley]

"Say that to my face!"

haha, youre alright pal

[DeruIsLove]

Glad to see my thread survived without me babysitting it.

Well we are born to eat 7 days a week. That is more to the point of my post.

I'm pretty sure the evidence available points towards humans being more of a feast/famine creature than a seven days a week the square meals a day type.

[DeruIsLove]

Three*

[Pico]

An open letter to all non-atheists in this thread:

Out of the hundreds of religions across the world, YOU were born in to the right one. How fortunate!

Out of the millions of gods over the course of human history, YOU chose the right one to worship. You're so fucking smart!

Out of the infinite amount of possible outcomes after death, YOU know exactly what's going to happen, because Jesus said so. If only we could all be so enlightened!

Basically, you've got it all figured out. Must feel pretty great! Good for you! :)

thanks, ive thought about my privlege and luck a lot during my time on this world. now im being congratulated for it which really seals the deal for my belief strucure, thank you for this time written

[Iksandar Peregrinus]

TLDR

But to the OP and similar dick-minds: check out Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens on the Utube.

If they make NO sense to you then you are a confirmed moron and should kill yourself immediately, for the good of us all.

[Pico]

TLDR

But to the OP and similar dick-minds: check out Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens on the Utube.

If they make NO sense to you then you are a confirmed moron and should kill yourself immediately, for the good of us all.

dawkins and hitchens would be good viewing for 'dickminds' as they are one and hte same. the hatred in the second part of your post is actualy a quite common issue amongst atheists, nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. :o

[Iksandar Peregrinus]

Yer nonsense aside, my original statement.

[Orruar]

Glad to see my thread survived without me babysitting it.

Threads tend to continue when you bump them after 25 hours with no other posts. Way to go.

[Glenzig]

TLDR

But to the OP and similar dick-minds: check out Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens on the Utube.

If they make NO sense to you then you are a confirmed moron and should kill yourself immediately, for the good of us all.

Yup! Definitely not a religion! Learn our ways or you will/should/deserve to die. Very progressive indeed.

[Glenzig]

Definitely Atheists.^^^

[Shamalam]

thanks, ive thought about my privlege and luck a lot during my time on this world. now im being congratulated for it which really seals the deal for my belief strucure, thank you for this time written

You're most welcome! I wish I could live in blissful ignorance like you fine people, but unfortunately my brain works. :(

[r00t]

Dawkins and Hitchens are both incorrigible fools.

Dawkin's PhD thesis is about fucking bird beaks, something Darwin beat him only by over 100 years with, yet somehow he's the world's expert on evolution? Fucking Bill Nye is more qualified, and yes I'm being facetious.

At least he's not as stupid as Hitchens and doesn't outright deny the hypothesis that God could exist.

Real scientists recognize natural patterns, appreciate the math behind them, come to terms that it's not happenchance, and eventually become deists. Things like DNA being a database with checksums and fantastical properties that we can't even imitate or understand the combinations of 4 little base pairs; it simply doesn't just poop itself out.

[Glenzig]

Dawkins and Hitchens are both incorrigible fools.

Dawkin's PhD thesis is about fucking bird beaks, something Darwin beat him only by over 100 years with, yet somehow he's the world's expert on evolution? Fucking Bill Nye is more qualified, and yes I'm being facetious.

At least he's not as stupid as Hitchens and doesn't outright deny the hypothesis that God could exist.

Real scientists recognize natural patterns, appreciate the math behind them, come to terms that it's not happenchance, and eventually become deists. Things like DNA being a database with checksums and fantastical properties that we can't even imitate or understand the combinations of 4 little base pairs; it simply doesn't just poop itself out.

Be prepared to be told how little your brain is able to comprehend. Most Atheists really honestly believe that people who believe in creation reject all forms of scientific knowledge. Well, I don't think they actually believe that, but its always the go to response for sure. Easy straw man to build so you don't have to talk about anything actually relevant to the discussion.

[Orruar]

There are halfway reasonable reasons to believe in a deity/deities. Checksums in DNA sounds like you're really stretching. It's like you want to believe but you don't want to sound like a moron, so you come up with something that sounds halfway scientific. In the end, you come out sounding like a moron anyway. Do you really think that the process of evolution wouldn't discover similar algorithms to ones we use, when we are both attempting to do similar tasks in a universe with the same physics/mathematical properties? The regulatory processes of the immune system often exhibit similar properties to regulatory systems in various manufacturing processes. Does that indicate to you that our immune system must have had a designer? Or is it just the case that when solving similar problems, a trial and error approach (evolution) can come up with similar solutions to what we humans design?

And the fact that humans can't yet understand fully our DNA does not make for a good argument for a designer. Or are we back to believing in Zeus because we don't understand electrical charge in the atmosphere and how that leads to lightning/thunder?

[Glenzig]

There are halfway reasonable reasons to believe in a deity/deities. Checksums in DNA sounds like you're really stretching. It's like you want to believe but you don't want to sound like a moron, so you come up with something that sounds halfway scientific. In the end, you come out sounding like a moron anyway. Do you really think that the process of evolution wouldn't discover similar algorithms to ones we use, when we are both attempting to do similar tasks in a universe with the same physics/mathematical properties? The regulatory processes of the immune system often exhibit similar properties to regulatory systems in various manufacturing processes. Does that indicate to you that our immune system must have had a designer? Or is it just the case that when solving similar problems, a trial and error approach (evolution) can come up with similar solutions to what we humans design?

And the fact that humans can't yet understand fully our DNA does not make for a good argument for a designer. Or are we back to believing in Zeus because we don't understand electrical charge in the atmosphere and how that leads to lightning/thunder?

You're assigning an intelligence to a abstract idea. Evolution isn't an entity. It can't guide or manipulate or assign anything to anyone anywhere.

[Shamalam]

Real scientists recognize natural patterns, appreciate the math behind them, come to terms that it's not happenchance, and eventually become deists.

You're suggesting that real scientists, when faced with something they can't immediately explain, simply give up and start believing in god? As in, if they don't reach the same conclusions as you, they aren't a real scientist?

Man, I wish I could be 14 again. Freakin' adorable.

[Orruar]

You're assigning an intelligence to a abstract idea. Evolution isn't an entity. It can't guide or manipulate or assign anything to anyone anywhere.

You are so fucking retarded. Every one of your posts is a nonstop train of idiocy. Please stop.

[Shamalam]

There are halfway reasonable reasons to believe in a deity/deities. Checksums in DNA sounds like you're really stretching. It's like you want to believe but you don't want to sound like a moron, so you come up with something that sounds halfway scientific. In the end, you come out sounding like a moron anyway. Do you really think that the process of evolution wouldn't discover similar algorithms to ones we use, when we are both attempting to do similar tasks in a universe with the same physics/mathematical properties? The regulatory processes of the immune system often exhibit similar properties to regulatory systems in various manufacturing processes. Does that indicate to you that our immune system must have had a designer? Or is it just the case that when solving similar problems, a trial and error approach (evolution) can come up with similar solutions to what we humans design?

And the fact that humans can't yet understand fully our DNA does not make for a good argument for a designer. Or are we back to believing in Zeus because we don't understand electrical charge in the atmosphere and how that leads to lightning/thunder?

Logic has no place within this thread, good sir.

[Orruar]

Real scientists recognize natural patterns, appreciate the math behind them, come to terms that it's not happenchance, and eventually become deists. Things like DNA being a database with checksums and fantastical properties that we can't even imitate or understand the combinations of 4 little base pairs; it simply doesn't just poop itself out.

Basically, you're one step removed from people who believe in god because they see a picture of jesus in a piece of toast or the eyes of god in the wood grain on their closet door. You want to believe so damn badly, so you grasp at whatever you can to give your beliefs enough credibility for you to believe them without feeling like it's purely faith. You need to just come to grips with the fact that faith is exactly what you have and no evidence is required for you to believe it.

[Orruar]

Logic has no place within this thread, good sir.

Yeah, I'm starting to realize that. The arrival of Glenzig should have been my first clue.

[r00t]

There is plenty of evidence for God, if we are talking about God as the definition of a supernatural unexplained creator: 1) Existence, 2) Everything

[Ahldagor]

i always like it when people personify evolution as if it has controlled how creatures have changed like it is a god leaving out the randomness that is at its core

[r00t]

You're suggesting that real scientists, when faced with something they can't immediately explain, simply give up and start believing in god? As in, if they don't reach the same conclusions as you, they aren't a real scientist?

Man, I wish I could be 14 again. Freakin' adorable.

That's exactly what I'm saying.. All of the greats from Franklin to Einstein have been deists for a reason. Science proves things aren't just the adorable fantasy that things exist without being created, a quite common atheist belief.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Od1jMdQIer4/UjpBl0Gh9dI/AAAAAAAAAQs/ntWVKdaUOPU/s1600/Big_Bang_Nothing_Exploded.jpg

[Rellapse40]

Dawkins and Hitchens are fucking annoying spent 2 hours watching a documentary a while back on these two cum guzzlers. 2 fucking hours i will never get back would rather jerk off to animal porn

[Glenzig]

You are so fucking retarded. Every one of your posts is a nonstop train of idiocy. Please stop.

Good explanation. I look forward to another well worded rebuttal.

[Ahldagor]

don't get pedantic and look at the episteme of the notions

[Glenzig]

i always like it when people personify evolution as if it has controlled how creatures have changed like it is a god leaving out the randomness that is at its core

Its because its unreasonable to have highly organized extremely complex structures that are the very building blocks of life and tell people that they just kinda happened that way for no rhyme or reason.

[Shamalam]

That's exactly what I'm saying.. All of the greats from Franklin to Einstein have been deists for a reason. Science proves things aren't just the adorable fantasy that things exist without being created, a quite common atheist belief.

Science proves no such thing, and the fact that you think otherwise suggests a complete lack of understanding of how science actually works. In fact, "things exist without being created" actually seems to apply quite well to your idea of a creator/god. If nothing can exist without a creator, who created god? Did he just create himself one day? If he was able to come into being without being created by something greater, why can't the same be true of all life as we know it?

And while we're at it, what gives you the right to decide for us who the "great" scientists are? I could just as easily cherry pick some "great" atheist scientists, too, but what would that prove?