It's only fair

[Duckwalk]

So my brother and I were putting our heads together to try to see if there could be a way to make the server fun and deflate the market etc for newer players, when we came up with two ideas:

1: once a year remove all platinum from game. (or remove like 50% or something, but people could get around that by buying gems or something)
2: once a year make every single item currently in the game (current items, not new items from mobs) No Drop. Meaning items on your character (or bank or w/e) would become no drop, but new items you loot would be normal.

I'm not saying that it is necessary at all, but the original release of the game, the expansions came out quickly-ish and people didn't know what they were doing as far as questing and farming half the time, so I was just idly brainstorming and came up with these ideas on how to clear out some of the extra stuff or get the game back to basics.

I figure that if the server never goes past Velious eventually this will be a big issue if it isn't already, and while the fix would surely be super unpopular, it may become necessary.

It seems that there are like waaaaaay too many uber lvl characters and people just farming the heck out of things, so it isn't as much fun. I just started perhaps a month ago, but making enough money just to get spells is quite difficult, let alone if I ever wanted something like a fungi tunic or whatever. When lots of players are rolling in hundreds of thousands of plat and have bank characters full of nice gear, It just got me thinking: If you made everything no drop, then people wouldn't be too effected by it, because they would still have all of their items, but then all of the prices would change to reflect the supply evaporating overnight, which would allow the newer or lower level characters a chance to farm some stuff and make money.

Not a perfect fix, or even really close to one.. But besides a flat-out server wipe of everything, which would really stink, I figured this seemed like an interesting idea..

What do you think?
Do you even think there is a problem?
Do you have another solution that could work?

Also other things could be done once a year like removing defunct guilds or a big character name sweep, or even some of those cool GM events I remember from way back. Or let loose all the gods in different zones to run around murdering people. In my guild on live servers I tried to remove all players that hadn't logged in in over 2 or 3 years from guild to just keep it a bit neater once and a while, for example.

[Doors]

Removing everyones money they spent how many hours farming for no reason. Good idea.

[Rhuma7]

Banning RMTers works nicely.

Over the past 6 months platinums value has increased by a good 20% so im guessing youre just jelly of the dudes with a fungi and cof.

[Kekephee]

http://37.media.tumblr.com/06ceec760f9f8d14cc77947de932d1d8/tumblr_mmh9cmFaiK1r6zm9ao7_r1_250.gif

[Rhuma7]

Also i would like to add velious will cause most items value to plummet so youll be in much better shape. Also... velious has a lot of options to gear up easily without spending a single copper. Totally not necessary at this time.

Rogean confirmed once again after velious we will have a progression server.

[r00t]

not classic

[Duckwalk]

Don't know what that is.. but it's just a matter of time before the game gets bloated, especially if the expansion list is going to stop with Velious. Theoretically everyone will eventually be max level with max gear and leave because there's nothing left to do.

And yeah, you can always delete all your stuff on purpose or w/e, but not the same as a server reset of some kind. Maybe not even once a year, but that's generally how long was in-between expansions if memory serves.

[Garmr]

Rogean confirmed once again after velious we will have a progression server.

As in a new server altogether? Link?

[Softcore PK]

Something should be done about blue's economy. You guys messed it up bad with all the duping and toxic behavior (price gouging). Deleting everyone's money would help a lot, but it's not the route to go because it is completely unfair.

If you'd be okay with the mean people that messed your server up in the first place being given a chance at rare items, I think something like the casino would be okay. The good prizes could all be no drop.

[Rhuma7]

As in a new server altogether? Link?

Quote Originally Posted by Arden View Post
Yep. The easiest solution in the world and no one running EQ servers can figure it out for some reason. Mentioned that earlier in this thread. Can't figure out why Rogean and the others can't put it together.


This has actually been our plan for several years and has been stated as such several times on our forums. In order to enact that plan, we have to first get to Velious. Once we've been in Velious long enough, that second server will begin.
Project 1999 Manager / Administrator
EQEmulator Administrator

http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?5605-Why-all-the-Emulated-EQ-servers-if-EQ-is-free-to-play&p=680547&viewfull=1#post680547

[Softcore PK]

Quote Originally Posted by Arden View Post


This has actually been our plan for several years and has been stated as such several times on our forums. In order to enact that plan, we have to first get to Velious. Once we've been in Velious long enough, that second server will begin.
Project 1999 Manager / Administrator
EQEmulator Administrator

http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?5605-Why-all-the-Emulated-EQ-servers-if-EQ-is-free-to-play&p=680547&viewfull=1#post680547

^By that he meant teams pvp, I'm sure :)

Only new server they've announced.

[Rhuma7]

^By that he meant teams pvp, I'm sure :)

Only new server they've announced.

Dude, read the whole thread yourself then.

The thread was created by the assistant lead designer of EQ live and he was asking why there are so many EMU's and people playing on EMU servers when EQ live is free.

It then evolved into what the players really want and the idea of a progression server done right was proposed and directed at rogean why p99 doesn't have one, he retorted with "that was the plan all along"

[Duckwalk]

Totally not what I'm talking about.. eventually something will need to be done, I'm not saying that my idea is the best, or that it should be done soon, but unless you want to eventually become a Live server it will stagnate and die, simple mathematics

[Rhuma7]

Totally not what I'm talking about.. eventually something will need to be done, I'm not saying that my idea is the best, or that it should be done soon, but unless you want to eventually become a Live server it will stagnate and die, simple mathematics

Ask yourself, why does it need to be done? Simple mathematics doesn't justify your position or the doomsday prophecy of a stagnate, dead server.

It's infinitely easier to start fresh on a server with a bloated economy than it is on a fresh, currency and item starved server for the simple fact, lower end gear is almost worthless and very easy to afford by selling spider silks and bone chips, where as youll be farming hill giants for weeks to afford a simple FBSS on a starved server, if you could even find one for sale, like in your everything is no-drop example.

[Duckwalk]

In a game that has characters progressing, you need content to continue to progress with the characters.

easy way to imagine it is it's a foot race: everyone runs at different speeds. If you want to continue the game, you must add miles to the end of the race, otherwise eventually everyone will just be milling around the finish line.

I know it's tougher then 1 + 1

[Duckwalk]

yeah, was looking for constructive replies

[Rhuma7]

In a game that has characters progressing, you need content to continue to progress with the characters.

easy way to imagine it is it's a foot race: everyone runs at different speeds. If you want to continue the game, you must add miles to the end of the race, otherwise eventually everyone will just be milling around the finish line.

I know it's tougher then 1 + 1

That is exactly how live turned into stagnant dead servers. By increasing the finish line everytime people hit the wall.

450 expansions later, who wants to run 10,000 miles to finish the race?

Start over, make an alt, help someone new do their epic. Join a progressing guild instead of just staying in TMO/IB.

http://i1.cpcache.com/product/639152121/captain_planet_power_is_yours_tile_coaster.jpg?hei ght=460&width=460&qv=90

[Duckwalk]

Clearly you aren't getting it.
I totally didn't realize I was on a computer instead of my Xbox, thanks for that.
It could or couldn't be a race, that has nothing to do with the example I gave. It was just an analogy, not me thinking I'm playing a racing game.

It's a fallback server that will stay stuck in the past - which is cool and all - I was simply putting a thought I had out there and wondering what people thought about it and if they had any other ideas.

Of course the devs are aware, I'm not addressing this to them, simply talking about the game and issues with games like this. Not really looking for people to come in and talk crap, you can do that in a different thread if you want, just want a constructive discussion and to hear other people's ideas - not listen to them whine about it.

[Rhuma7]

Now you're just being ignorant, I asked you to come up with a legit reason why there "needs" to be a reset and you're all slamming your head into your keyboard asking how to fix the "problem" that doesn't exist.

Fucking arm chair developers these days. The problem isn't the server, the problem is you and your philosophy that theres even a problem.

[Rhuma7]

negative nancy

[Duckwalk]

there isn't really an issue, just my observations and a few thoughts that I had about what might be able to be done at some point. I listened to Rogan's twitch tv thing about pvp, and they say while they will never do a server wipe, they do have some ideas on how to change things for the better. Was just wondering what people thought, and to share my ideas. (they didn't go into the blue server for ideas, just threw around ideas for red)

Yeah, I mean a year was just the first thing that popped into my head, mebbe 2 years would do, or 18 months or who knows?

[khanable]

these ideas are fucking retarded

[Orruar]

...(price gouging)...

A good rule of thumb is that if you see anyone use these two words in a discussion about economics, they probably know nothing about economics.

[Softcore PK]

I took micro.

[Glenzig]

A good rule of thumb is that if you see anyone use these two words in a discussion about economics, they probably know nothing about economics.

Huh??? Cause price gouging doesn't actually exist?

[Rhuma7]

Huh??? Cause price gouging doesn't actually exist?

Whether its illegal in RL doesn't really matter, its the entire basis of supply vs demand, the definition of an economy.

[Orruar]

I took micro.

Good. Then you know price gouging doesn't exist except in the minds of people with no understanding of supply, demand, and the price setting mechanism of the market.

[Glenzig]

Good. Then you know price gouging doesn't exist except in the minds of people with no understanding of supply, demand, and the price setting mechanism of the market.

All that stuff is fake. Its all an illusion made up to make people feel secure under a system dominated by greed and corruption.

[Softcore PK]

Good. Then you know price gouging doesn't exist except in the minds of people with no understanding of supply, demand, and the price setting mechanism of the market.

Price gouging very much does exist. Yes it's a free market here in Norrath, but your rich getting richer as the poor have to farm more and more to afford their items is a big part of the problem. You call it simple economics, I call it being a jerk.

[Sidelle]

I really dislike the phrase "it's only fair".

http://global3.memecdn.com/life-isnt-fair_o_800997.jpg

[Lojik]

Price gouging very much does exist. Yes it's a free market here in Norrath, but your rich getting richer as the poor have to farm more and more to afford their items is a big part of the problem. You call it simple economics, I call it being a jerk.

I always knew "Red" 99 was just a cover for commies

[Sidelle]

I always knew "Red" 99 was just a cover for commies

Haha! <3

[Duckwalk]

Thanks for the entertainment everyone. Closing the office early and heading home. Today the part of Duckwalk was played Trosk. Everyone have a good weekend.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146746&highlight=Server+spring+cleaning

[Orruar]

Price gouging very much does exist. Yes it's a free market here in Norrath, but your rich getting richer as the poor have to farm more and more to afford their items is a big part of the problem. You call it simple economics, I call it being a jerk.

I'm picturing a disheveled human monk tirelessly grinding away in a factory in ak'anon, hunched over in the cramped gnome-sized rooms and operating levers designed for smaller hands.

Really though, what the hell are you talking about? I geared a monk up a few months back for pennies compared to what it would have cost a year prior. And looking in the prices on wiki, that hasn't changed much. And it seems the usual farm spots are still pumping out the same plat as they always have.

[Doors]

Just wipe the fucking server. People wiped old servers all the time (emulated ones) and it wasn't a big deal.

Refarm your shit, relevel your characters. No idea how anyone could still be interested in Kunark's expansion at this point.

[Softcore PK]

It's been forever since I've been on blue, but I remember a lot of people complaining about the price of jboots. A group of people had them permacamped (at least for a while) and the price nearly doubled in the span of a few weeks.

The farm spots pump out varying levels of plat depending on how heavily camped they are. Prices go up, people camp plat harder. People camp plat harder, plat value decreases.

[Orruar]

Yeah, sucks jboots are the only way of running faster. Oh wait...

[Orruar]

Also, why would you hold such a strong opinion as to the economic problems of the blue server when you haven't played there in forever? Most people like to at least have a little knowledge before forming an opinion.

[Dragonsblood1987]

So my brother and I were putting our heads together to try to see if there could be a way to make the server fun and deflate the market etc for newer players, when we came up with two ideas:

1: once a year remove all platinum from game. (or remove like 50% or something, but people could get around that by buying gems or something)
2: once a year make every single item currently in the game (current items, not new items from mobs) No Drop. Meaning items on your character (or bank or w/e) would become no drop, but new items you loot would be normal.

I'm not saying that it is necessary at all, but the original release of the game, the expansions came out quickly-ish and people didn't know what they were doing as far as questing and farming half the time, so I was just idly brainstorming and came up with these ideas on how to clear out some of the extra stuff or get the game back to basics.

I figure that if the server never goes past Velious eventually this will be a big issue if it isn't already, and while the fix would surely be super unpopular, it may become necessary.

It seems that there are like waaaaaay too many uber lvl characters and people just farming the heck out of things, so it isn't as much fun. I just started perhaps a month ago, but making enough money just to get spells is quite difficult, let alone if I ever wanted something like a fungi tunic or whatever. When lots of players are rolling in hundreds of thousands of plat and have bank characters full of nice gear, It just got me thinking: If you made everything no drop, then people wouldn't be too effected by it, because they would still have all of their items, but then all of the prices would change to reflect the supply evaporating overnight, which would allow the newer or lower level characters a chance to farm some stuff and make money.

Not a perfect fix, or even really close to one.. But besides a flat-out server wipe of everything, which would really stink, I figured this seemed like an interesting idea..

What do you think?
Do you even think there is a problem?
Do you have another solution that could work?

Also other things could be done once a year like removing defunct guilds or a big character name sweep, or even some of those cool GM events I remember from way back. Or let loose all the gods in different zones to run around murdering people. In my guild on live servers I tried to remove all players that hadn't logged in in over 2 or 3 years from guild to just keep it a bit neater once and a while, for example.

TL;DR



But for cereal, son, imagine how much making existing items no-drop would spike the price.. Suddenly that 100k item isnt sellable, so someone has to go through the trouble of actually farming one to sell, instead of playing Ec tunnel jewquest. the prices would SKYROCKET. 1/10.

[Dragonsblood1987]

Also, why would you hold such a strong opinion as to the economic problems of the blue server when you haven't played there in forever? Most people like to at least have a little knowledge before forming an opinion.

HAH! Not on the internet! Everyone has a doctorate in everything on the internet!

[Softcore PK]

Also, why would you hold such a strong opinion as to the economic problems of the blue server when you haven't played there in forever? Most people like to at least have a little knowledge before forming an opinion.

I don't care too much but your crappy economy is set to mess things up on my server because cross-server trade is still allowed for some reason. It's great that we've got so many bluebies coming over to try things out, but they're all trading plat and gear over even when our plat is worth 4 times what yours is.

[Orruar]

You don't care and yet you feel knowledgeable enough to deem the blue economy as "crappy"? That's a rather odd mishmash of ideas.

[Ahldagor]

Whether its illegal in RL doesn't really matter, its the entire basis of supply vs demand, the definition of an economy.

profit margin, not supply and demand. someone overpays then they overpay and we all overpay.

cost of a car to make compared to what you pay for it, and the immediate drop in value after you drive it off of the lot for an example.

[Rhuma7]

profit margin, not supply and demand. someone overpays then they overpay and we all overpay.

cost of a car to make compared to what you pay for it, and the immediate drop in value after you drive it off of the lot for an example.


Still basically the same thing, without demand you cant price gouge.

The only person who overpays is the tool who buys cars off the lot.

This is all redundant though. We know.

[Ahldagor]

Still basically the same thing, without demand you cant price gouge.

The only person who overpays is the tool who buys cars off the lot.

This is all redundant though. We know.

difference in our views is likely a marketing thing

[Orruar]

someone overpays then they overpay and we all overpay

What are you saying? How does one overpay? I've never paid for something and valued the money I gave them more than the item itself. If I had, I wouldn't have made the trade.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

So my brother and I were putting our heads together to try to see if there could be a way to make the server fun and deflate the market etc for newer players, when we came up with two ideas:

1: once a year remove all platinum from game. (or remove like 50% or something, but people could get around that by buying gems or something)
2: once a year make every single item currently in the game (current items, not new items from mobs) No Drop. Meaning items on your character (or bank or w/e) would become no drop, but new items you loot would be normal.

I'm not saying that it is necessary at all, but the original release of the game, the expansions came out quickly-ish and people didn't know what they were doing as far as questing and farming half the time, so I was just idly brainstorming and came up with these ideas on how to clear out some of the extra stuff or get the game back to basics.

I figure that if the server never goes past Velious eventually this will be a big issue if it isn't already, and while the fix would surely be super unpopular, it may become necessary.

It seems that there are like waaaaaay too many uber lvl characters and people just farming the heck out of things, so it isn't as much fun. I just started perhaps a month ago, but making enough money just to get spells is quite difficult, let alone if I ever wanted something like a fungi tunic or whatever. When lots of players are rolling in hundreds of thousands of plat and have bank characters full of nice gear, It just got me thinking: If you made everything no drop, then people wouldn't be too effected by it, because they would still have all of their items, but then all of the prices would change to reflect the supply evaporating overnight, which would allow the newer or lower level characters a chance to farm some stuff and make money.

Not a perfect fix, or even really close to one.. But besides a flat-out server wipe of everything, which would really stink, I figured this seemed like an interesting idea..

What do you think?
Do you even think there is a problem?
Do you have another solution that could work?

Also other things could be done once a year like removing defunct guilds or a big character name sweep, or even some of those cool GM events I remember from way back. Or let loose all the gods in different zones to run around murdering people. In my guild on live servers I tried to remove all players that hadn't logged in in over 2 or 3 years from guild to just keep it a bit neater once and a while, for example.

Liberal.

[Bill Tetley]

wasnt this exact thread posted in server chat a couple months ago?

[Duckwalk]

Wow this still going?

Thanks for the entertainment everyone. Closing the office early and heading home. Today the part of Duckwalk was played Trosk. Everyone have a good weekend.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146746&highlight=Server+spring+cleaning

[Glenzig]

What are you saying? How does one overpay? I've never paid for something and valued the money I gave them more than the item itself. If I had, I wouldn't have made the trade.

So you feel that Gasoline is a fairly priced item?

[radditsu]

So you feel that Gasoline is a fairly priced item?


http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-goklany11-2008aug11-story.html

[Orruar]

So you feel that Gasoline is a fairly priced item?

Yes. I'd say the ability to move myself 80 miles in an hour at a cost of about $10 is well worth it. Beats the hell out of horseback riding or riding a bike.

[Glenzig]

http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-goklany11-2008aug11-story.html

Its called spin. That story is pure fiction.

[Orruar]

Also, wtf does "fairly priced" mean? Either something is priced such that you'd buy it or it's not. Tesla cars are currently in the latter category for me. Does that mean they're not fairly priced?

[Glenzig]

Yes. I'd say the ability to move myself 80 miles in an hour at a cost of about $10 is well worth it. Beats the hell out of horseback riding or riding a bike.

So the fact that it cost you an average of $20-30 per day if your work commute were to be said 80 miles, is considered a "good deal"? That's $100-150 per 5 day work week.

[Glenzig]

Also, wtf does "fairly priced" mean? Either something is priced such that you'd buy it or it's not. Tesla cars are currently in the latter category for me. Does that mean they're not fairly priced?

To me it comes down to this. If its something that is a necessity, yet is priced at such a rate that you need to take out a line of credit to purchase it, then it could hardly be said to be fairly priced.

When it comes down to having to chose between food or gas, it can hardly be said to be fairly priced.

[Orruar]

So the fact that it cost you an average of $20-30 per day if your work commute were to be said 80 miles, is considered a "good deal"? That's $100-150 per 5 day work week.

I'd hate to have to commute 80 miles. I was thinking more of a trip to Cocoa Beach, which is well worth $10. Still, let's play your hypothetical game. Anyone with a brain factors in the cost to get to work when considering job opportunities. If I had the option to work from home or work 80 miles away (and spend $150 on gas), I'd have to get a minimum of $150 more per week from the job 80 miles away (and much more than that since I value my time far more than the $10/hr spent on gas).

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Is it that you think gasoline costs too much? If you feel like you're not getting your money's worth, perhaps you should arrange your affairs so as to use less of it? And if you do think gasoline costs too much, who do you blame?

[Orruar]

To me it comes down to this. If its something that is a necessity, yet is priced at such a rate that you need to take out a line of credit to purchase it, then it could hardly be said to be fairly priced.

When it comes down to having to chose between food or gas, it can hardly be said to be fairly priced.

You have to take out a line of credit to afford food and gasoline? Holy shit man, do you drive the NASA shuttle launcher to work and eat like a whale?

[Daldolma]

To me it comes down to this. If its something that is a necessity, yet is priced at such a rate that you need to take out a line of credit to purchase it, then it could hardly be said to be fairly priced.

When it comes down to having to chose between food or gas, it can hardly be said to be fairly priced.

you seem to think "fair" means "universally affordable"

i assure you there is a difference. sometimes it is entirely fair that you can't have something you want, or even need

[Glenzig]

you seem to think "fair" means "universally affordable"

i assure you there is a difference. sometimes it is entirely fair that you can't have something you want, or even need

So you're all for people starving because they can't afford food? Good to know there's still some morality left in the world.

[Glenzig]

You have to take out a line of credit to afford food and gasoline? Holy shit man, do you drive the NASA shuttle launcher to work and eat like a whale?

Paragraphs. They separate lines of thought.

[Bboboo]

It's almost as if you wanted to come up with the worst idea ever.

[Orruar]

Paragraphs. They separate lines of thought.

So food and gas are not necessities for you? I can understand gas, as you can always bike or walk, but most people require some form of sustenance.

[Orruar]

So you're all for people starving because they can't afford food? Good to know there's still some morality left in the world.

You're conflating "affordable" with "obtainable".

[Glenzig]

I'd hate to have to commute 80 miles. I was thinking more of a trip to Cocoa Beach, which is well worth $10. Still, let's play your hypothetical game. Anyone with a brain factors in the cost to get to work when considering job opportunities. If I had the option to work from home or work 80 miles away (and spend $150 on gas), I'd have to get a minimum of $150 more per week from the job 80 miles away (and much more than that since I value my time far more than the $10/hr spent on gas).

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Is it that you think gasoline costs too much? If you feel like you're not getting your money's worth, perhaps you should arrange your affairs so as to use less of it? And if you do think gasoline costs too much, who do you blame?

Hmmmm. Well nothing you described fits into the category of necessity. So that's really a whole different subject.

[Glenzig]

So food and gas are not necessities for you? I can understand gas, as you can always bike or walk, but most people require some form of sustenance.

No. The whole line of credit thought was separated from the gas vs food thought. Its no wonder you people don't think there is such a thing as unfair pricing, or price gouging. You do t know how.to read.

[Orruar]

We weren't talking about necessity at that point, only about whether the current price of gasoline is a "good deal" or "fair" or whatever other meaningless phrase you wanted to attach.

[Orruar]

Do try and keep up. Internet forums are wonderful in that they allow you to scroll back through and get the precise context of previous conversation.

[Splorf22]

Something should be done about blue's economy. You guys messed it up bad with all the duping and toxic behavior (price gouging). Deleting everyone's money would help a lot, but it's not the route to go because it is completely unfair.

If you'd be okay with the mean people that messed your server up in the first place being given a chance at rare items, I think something like the casino would be okay. The good prizes could all be no drop.

Nothing is wrong with Blue's economy. It's just that after 4 years of Kunark everyone has a fuckton of Kunark pixels. So what. There are only two people that have a problem with Kunark pixels: hardcore types who are pisses that they aren't the only ones any more with ElitePixelX, and people who joined the server recently who are pissed that they don't have ElitePixelX.

The problem with the server is the Kunark expansion: it has very little raid content, and the raid content it has is trivial, so everyone ends up 'competing' in dumb ways like camping alts and FTE spamming. This kind of shit will not happen in Velious, because the raids are actually hard.

[Splorf22]

Glenzig, I think you are simply failing to view the world through the lens of scarcity. Obviously it would be nice for me if gasoline was cheap relative to other commodities; because my back yard has no oil well I am a net consumer of gasoline. Unfortunately, the world has a limited supply of gasoline and lots of people want to use. So I suggest you direct your anger at the Chinese.